Open 875 - The Kindgom of Zeal: The Queens Chosen - GAME OVER

[Gimli]

First

[Gimli]

Hardclaim potato

[Gimli]

I have two reads

I don't see LLD opening this way as scum but it's not worth the effort of debating my alignment with her.

I normally see the hypersolving as a townie trait, but I understand that for ranger this is something she replicates as mafia. nonetheless I think the ranger's townread on LLD looks genuine, when I think as a wolf someone would be more inclined to OMGUS' LLD's push.

my other read is that furtive is more likely a townie because he is trying to interact with detective penguin - a slot that he had to kill n1 as a serial killer last time - and I think he is more likely to do that as town this time

[Gimli]

VOTE: redff

I guess hopping on the ranger wagon is not great

[Gimli]

some other minor things: LLD is a tentative townread cause she is deathtunneling a slot since very early and I don't see wolves doing that enough. sail's scumclaiming post was really awkward but I don't think is scummy. penguin seems intense this game which is good.

[Gimli]

VOTE: Gimli

if you have a read with that vote please share I'd love talking it out with you

[Gimli]

on ΛΔ

who to the what now?

I KNOW I KNWO ITS LAMBDA DELTA

[Gimli]

Page 1-2:

• Very strong town vibes on ΛΔ just from page 1 alone
  
• Ranger self-voting is gross and I don't like it (but I don't know if it's scummy gross or just regular gross)
  
• Sail's 31 is so cheeky I want to townread them for that alone
  
• Intangible scum vibes on Penguin for 35 which their later posts don't help
  
• Cephrir is dead null, seems like a hard player to read

why do you think the self vote is gross, if it isn't scummy? I get the idea of self voting being gross when that's tied to an emotional play or something that goes against wincon. but there on p2 it was a meaningless vote so I take issue with you pointing it out as if it's meaningful, and I want you to expand on why you think its gross and why it could potentially be scum indicative.

[Gimli]

oh math symbols...haha..hilarious

they're greek letters you uneducated penguin

[Gimli]

lmao okay

[Gimli]

why do you think the self vote is gross, if it isn't scummy? I get the idea of self voting being gross when that's tied to an emotional play or something that goes against wincon. but there on p2 it was a meaningless vote so I take issue with you pointing it out as if it's meaningful, and I want you to expand on why you think its gross and why it could potentially be scum indicative.

On reflection saying "not sure whether scummy" was technically true but I should have been clear I sort of do find it scummy. Not the self-vote itself, because people self-vote as town all the time (even though I think it's dumb), but the self-vote in combination with what came before and after.

Pretty sure role flips in setup but not night of acting if I remember correctly so will say I act N1. (I should double-check that but full disclosure; I actually forgot this was an open. Thanks to how flavored it was I thought it was a theme. xD)

VOTE: Ranger

I don't see LLD opening this way as scum but it's not worth the effort of debating my alignment with her.

This all seemed like an overreaction to being suspected. Making a claim and self-voting and saying "I don't see any point in arguing this" seems like something you might do as town if you are on the chopping block already but not in response to one person saying you are scum, so it comes off to me as someone trying to "react the way town would react" rather than just exhibiting their true reaction.

I agree it's an overreaction, but I feel like that fits the way ranger plays at a personality level and I think claiming n1 on p2 is more likely than not to be coming from town. I see ranger is getting some scumreads and I don't understand them nor do I think what you're noticing is more likely than not to be coming from scum.

from what I know of both ranger and LLD, if they start arguing with each other over their scumreads on one another, we'll see many very long posts. I think it's reasonable for ranger to try and avoid it, especially if she thinks lld is probably town and not a back and forth that'll help her solve.

[Gimli]

i don't either but i think ranger's response has been decently scummy

really, why is that?

[Gimli]

i think she's focused pretty hard on the "confusing me with someone else" aspect and while i understand what she's getting at here, it's easier to hide behind this than to take another tack. furthermore, she accuses me of this when i haven't said anything that implied my vote has to do with who she is or isn't. i did make one post about the rightful order of things but that has never been why i was voting where im voting

also, if she wishes me to see her as someone else, then i think i get to hold her to a standard of explaining reads which i would not hold the person i'm confusing her with to, so i would like to see that

I don't wanna get into the multiple people part of this other than to say it has to be NAI, right? and I don't think she's been heavy handed with it, surely ranger feels its important that we know she's not someone you talked with before.

what were you pushing ranger for originally? I see that you're not pushing her for having an overreaction to that 'i wont townread you just for putting things in the right order', when imo she wasn't reacting to a lean or a push, she was reacting to the familiarity in which you were approaching her.

[Gimli]

i can be pretty reliably expected to vote anything LLD feels strongly about on page 1, and then i wasn't super thrilled by ranger's decision to decline any sort of discussion with her

with her who, with lld?

[Gimli]

but lld isn't saying anything ranger can defend herself from. its 'your scumtells', and ranger is saying pls don't read me on my tells im a different person. there's nothing to work with cause lld isnt engaging with ranger's posts, she's just identifying something ranger does when she is a wolf

[Gimli]

I'd be unwilling to engage with it as well if someone came to me and said 'oh youre doing your wolf thing' with no elaboration

[Gimli]

I see. she said she's giving reads and I find her emotions genuine although I did townread ranger's emotions in 2019 game despite her being mafia. somehow this looks different and idt ranger strikes me as a resigned wolf.

[Gimli]

I see. she said she's giving reads and I find her emotions genuine although I did townread ranger's emotions in 2019 game despite her being mafia. somehow this looks different and idt ranger strikes me as a resigned wolf.

no, she's not resigned. That's the point.

this is the precise emotional result she's aiming to engender in you. You can tell it's planned because of the dissonance between Ranger's self vote and supposed give up mixed with Ranger's constant rebuttal of Ceph and I based on meta plural reasons, indictating she doesn't actually want or think she will die today. Infact, she's giving me vibes feeling confident she will live.

So let's take her at her word, yes? She wants to die, she's giving her reads, they'll be here tomorrow if she's dead and town.

But why would we let someone who votes themselves and wants to die, live?

if you're so sure of it, okay

[Gimli]

Ethel, are you an actual new player or an alt?

I am a... wait, what's the lore of this again? Oh right - I am of course an ambitious young magician from the beautiful city of Enhasa who is honored by this opportunity to serve her majesty the Queen. Although I have been educated in the matter of intrigues and schemes, this is my first time experiencing a scenario such as the current one firsthand. I am still trying to decipher the code most of you seem to use, but not to worry, I'll have it figured out soon enough. Admittedly, I am finding it hard to follow some of the reasonings that have been made about the indentity of any Earthbound Ones, so I will observe and learn before making any such accusations myself.

so this is your first mafia game?

[Gimli]

me watching ranger scumreads like

[Gimli]

reminder to never self vote in a game with y'all...

[Gimli]

reminder to never self vote in a game with y'all...

forgot to say that your avatar is one of my favorite albums of all time. which needed to be said. because.

been one of my favorites since my teenage years as well which was a long time ago

I'm listening to it now since you mentioned it

[Gimli]

{Gimli}
{Lady Lambdadelta}
{Save The Dragons, Sail}
{Detective Penguin}
{Korina, (Radical Rat), Umlaut, Cephrir}
{furtiveglance | Ethel}
{redFF}

first the obligatory


second of all I really like your reads list, I think furtive is playing to his scum meta so far and agree with the sail townread... I have a little bit of meta with sail and they seem more flowy and posting unprepared posts than when they randed mafia in cannibal game.

I have a town vibe on ethel fwiw, if thats their literal first game of mafia they sound really innocent and open about it. but its just an impression i could be wrong ofc.

[Gimli]

my other read is that furtive is more likely a townie because he is trying to interact with detective penguin - a slot that he had to kill n1 as a serial killer last time - and I think he is more likely to do that as town this time

I think furtive is playing to his scum meta so far

What changed?

well the thread is twice as big now, and furtive is playing reserved, like he does everytime he rands mafia

[Gimli]

of course furtive will interact with you when he is mafia right after you caught him in a game, it was a very thin early impression

[Gimli]

there are no reads in these posts

[Gimli]

'furtive what do you think of ceph's wagon?'
'well, its a wagon'

remember that from last game? so, similar vibes. that's his scum meta so far.

[Gimli]

I didn't say likely town, I said more likely town as in >rand town, for talking to you.

[Gimli]

I'd love nothing more than an early death, but if you wanna kill mafia I suggest shooting elsewhere

[Gimli]

@peng: I think I know how you operate by now and I appreciate the thin comb into my progression. its reminiscent to d1 EOD of cannibal game and I'm townreading you for it

[Gimli]

i think furtive is scum too

btw if anyone tries to kill ethel today i will unhinge my jaw and swallow them whole. just a heads up

I agree with both of these takes atm but I wanna give furtive a lot of room to get into the game cause he can be quite the obvtown. last post he made hit his scum meta harder than an overhand though

while I do agree killing ethel is really bad, are you defending them cause new player, cause they're towny, or something else?

[Gimli]

I think Korina and Umlaut are town so far, how's that?

idk why korina?

[Gimli]

I enjoyed ethel's questioning lld on what the meta was for that first post and its funny how much we openly avoid confronting the nature of certain reads. this is the first time someone asks lld for a reasoning on ranger that goes past 'this is your scum tells', it's coming from a player who never mafia'd on a forum before while we put ranger on E-2 mainly on the back of that initial push.

[Gimli]

townies in (ethel ceph umlaut lld ranger peng sail). more certain on peng not too sure about the others. I like the vibe of ceph's this game but I heavily dislike the way he pushed ranger. same goes for umlaut, though umlaut is giving me more townie looking solvey posts that I can townread them for.

how about this POE for d1: (korina, RR, sail, std, furtive, redff)

[Gimli]

furtive townreading korina for something that's as close as you can get from reading a player mechanically (posting more scumreads than townreads) is not great and feels informed. I don't agree with sail's take on it but I think they had a towny perspective about furtive and I'm townleaning that approach

[Gimli]

furtive townreading korina for something that's as close as you can get from reading a player mechanically (posting more scumreads than townreads) is not great and feels informed. I don't agree with sail's take on it but I think they had a towny perspective about furtive and I'm townleaning that approach

Gimli seems off, fake, this doesn't look like a real Gimli thought

why? I see you townreading korina for a bunch of 'i like this' 'i dont like that', her reads seem shallow, and your reasoning isn't how I expect you to townhunt.

[Gimli]

I pretty consistently look for people actively scumhunting to townread.

So your read on me looks like uncharitable

you're right

why don't you do any of the many things you do when you're town? are you not feeling this game?

[Gimli]

almost every game I played in which I thought 'okay why are we killing this player' the player flipped town

ranger's posts, almost all of them, have depth and nuance that I think comes from town a lot

I really like her emotions being dragged as the d1 flip, they seem genuine

[Gimli]

this is only happening because ranger decided she would be a necessary d1 flip instead of going 'no you don't get to dictate the game', she turned herself into easy wagon and then people went 'lmao she self voted isnt that scummy' no thats not scummy

[Gimli]

and I'm feeling like disengaging with this game cause I think this game is bullshit

[Gimli]

redff, furtive, korina (why is this getting townreads?) all better wagons

we're getting nothing out of this

[Gimli]

furtive and korina strong svs dynamics early I called it first

[Gimli]

Also how do Furtive and I have svs dynamics, I barely answered furtive and need tk reread what Furt said specifically. That just like.

Ugh. Feels super weird for you to say that.

he called you townie for saying 'i dislike that' more than 'i like that' cause that's what your early posting looked like

[Gimli]

Ok some thoughts as I catchup and read:

- Don't like Ranger claiming n1.
- Don't like Ceph's posting on p2.
- Like LLD posting.
- Dislike Ranger self-vote which required me to read someone else's post to find out that Ranger self-voted bc I'm not fully reading the thread.
- Neutral on FF on p3.
- Sail scumclaim is eh.
- Gimli town.
- Umlaut posting ok, I guess. I didn't read it very detailed, but surface skim it seems ok.

I'm still busy lol but my friends got off to eat dinner so here I am now for a moment.

I think town are more likely to do a big list of dislikes, I think scumreads are more +town than townreads, especially early on

literally townreading that thing cause she disliked more things than she liked, he is just looking for reasons to townread you it seems

[Gimli]

I'm point at other things in the game we might want to investigate. I no longer want to speak about ranger. so we're killing her? okay then fine

[Gimli]

*they

I'm sorry korina

[Gimli]

'sail scumclaim is eh'. what's eh? you think it's scummy? what do you think of sail now?

[Gimli]

yeah I get it. but if it was nothing of note, why did you noted it?

[Gimli]

what do you think of furtive townreading you? or furtive in general?

[Gimli]

wait so ranger and mastina inhabit the same body? ugh I hope that's an appropriate question

[Gimli]

Gimli can you expand on why you sr korina

their posts are pretty empty, its just pointing at things and saying she dislikes them with no substance. and then there's little things like thinking they had to point out that sail scumclaimed when they think nothing of it. why post filler like this? it should lead somewhere if you're noticing it, otherwise why are you posting about it? makes no sense

and then people are townreading her so it's a slot I'm looking at and drawing associatives from already

[Gimli]

this is how I mafia man I'm bad at it but I keep tryin

[Gimli]

*townreading them

[Gimli]

I’ll respond to your question abt Furt later, but yeah, Ranger and Mastina are a system like Flea and us.

At a very layman working explanation that suffices to get the point across but lacks any nuance of the actual thing: meatspace hydra.

There’s LLD’s plurality thread and the Plural Discussion thread in the speakeasy if you have access to that, and I can grab links I posted somewhere else that help explain plurality too if you want.

wow you and flea, really? damn and you post so hard too, ugh comparatively

I do have access to speakeasy, I'll look it up thank you.

[Gimli]

I think that knowing korina belongs to a system with flea makes me more willing to townread their early start, even though I never played with korina and don't know anything about this player

[Gimli]

Idk if I misspoke or you’re making a joke, but Flea and I are two different systems lol.

I think you’re making a joke but my autism is making me think you’re being serious.

I wasn't making a joke lol sorry. I see what you're saying.

well good talk

so about the game, what you think of furtive? I asked and I don't think you replied

[Gimli]

Could you clarify why that one post convinced you of that?

I don't know if LLD read my question or not, but it doesn't look like I'll get an answer. And I couldn't find it anywhere on this forum. From what I've seen, the vast majority of messages between LLD and Ranger have just been a rather pointless and stale argument. I'm honestly rather surprised how heated this seems to have gotten, I expected these games to be a lot more... civil. At first I thought it was just a part of the game, but surely this kind of hostility isn't considered normal? Maybe this comes too late and things have already cooled down, but I just wanted to say something because this seems to have gotten out of hand for what's supposed to be a fun game...

[Gimli]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Gimli]

yeah no I'll just potato this game sorry

[Gimli]

Spoiler: assortment of links on plurality for anyone curious

Plurality Discussion Thread, This Speakeasy thread from LLD is also good.

more than one, plurality resource, about plurality. (this link uses multiplicity, which is the old term for plurality), plurality hub

ty for the links korina <3

[Gimli]

UNVOTE:

would be happy not to believe you but meh

your day play today has been very underwhelming as town

LLD tunnel on Ranger sort of took over the day, and I found that interaction hard to read

Tried to give some reads on other players, apparently that was too surface-level and TMI

Several players are also being hypocritical.

You for instance haven't done anything extraordinary (do you ever?), and Ceph and STD are coasting as usual.

voting you was a suggestion to go elsewhere from the ranger/lld discussion, that I agree it isn't fruitful

anyway I'll believe you're a n1 cop for now on tone, even though I suppose if you don't die tonight we might have to do this again tomorrow

[Gimli]

Ranger claimed n1 too, and like... I feel like everyone getting ran up today will just claim n1.

wild comment

ranger claimed n1 on p1/p2

do you think furtive is lying?

[Gimli]

Ranger claimed n1 too, and like... I feel like everyone getting ran up today will just claim n1.

This comment seems uncharacteristically thoughtless...

Do you think town will lie, or do you think everyone getting ran up D1 is scum?

I think Ranger 100% claimed n1 to buy time, and you - I don’t know. I think you could genuinely be n1, but your TR on me is really weird, and I think you could just be scum too.

to buy time on page 1? jesus christ you're all incredibly uncharitable to ranger

[Gimli]

VOTE: korina

[Gimli]

LLD claimed a tell on Ranger that I think I see too. Why wouldn’t I believe LLD and think Ranger’s lying especially after self-vote and “I act on n1” claim unpromptedly

Can you tell me what the tell is?

[Gimli]

I'm already voting korina right?

[Gimli]

nah lets just kill them

[Gimli]

nobody deserves to replace in for scummy af slot

[Gimli]

nah lets just kill them

[Gimli]

Did you or Ranger claim first?

ranger claimed and self voted in page 2

[Gimli]

korina and sail are both really smart

welcome to the game enchant and kawaii hope y'all have a nice time

[Gimli]

korina and sail are both really smart

welcome to the game enchant and kawaii hope y'all have a nice time

Hi can you vote radical rat

hi

idk, why?

[Gimli]

I'll be out all day but I'll try to make more sense of this game later on

kawaii, std, RR, redff is a tentative d1 POE. of course, RR is there just cause I'm readless on the slot.

I didn't like std's wagon hopping on and off me when talking to lld, I don't think he'd scumread me as town and he also voted me after expressing a townread on my slot for the right reasons (frustrated with gamestate means >rand town). but also idk how much of that was just joking around and whatnot. I have a hard time looking at interactions to/about/because of lld, I don't know why we need to cater to a player just because she wants this or that thing. even if she is better than everyone at mafia with precise meta reads on players, the way she goes on about it is pretty unstimulating for everyone that isn't just happily sheeping her reads. so I'm suspicious of people sheeping her ranger read, even if ranger is mafia players like umlaut, cephrir and korina/kawaii postured oddly about ranger. something to keep in mind I think.

[Gimli]

why not

you're right

VOTE: radical rat

[Gimli]

ah yes Im townreading furt's claim and posting afterwards

[Gimli]

no - made the same request of you and was ignored, but you made a weak request and Gimli abided.

Given that you were listened to over me makes me feel reaaaaaaaallllllllyyyyy bad. Like...really bad. Can't believe it actually happened bad.

I was voting korina with you - you didn't have to ask me for that

I'm willing to give kawaii breathing space anyway. I don't know RR super well but I don't expect him to scumread ranger's self vote, I feel that post by ranger is baiting scum into reacting to it, it's all bad scummy takes about it

[Gimli]

'I simply do not believe this' seems fake, of course you believe this

[Gimli]

'I simply do not believe this' seems fake, of course you believe this

im referring to rr not to penguin

this may look confusing

[Gimli]

'I simply do not believe this' seems fake, of course you believe this

What do you mean by this? Are you reading RR's post as the hyper-literal "I don't believe Ranger made this post" and saying that yes they do believe that? You're probably right about that but it's also the most obtuse possible way to read it.

the reaction seems phony cause I don't think what ranger did was surprising at all, I'm not taking it literally either I'm playing around with the words

[Gimli]

yes you're all the people I'm having trouble with for that, IDK how you don't consider taking a page 1 claim at face value. is ranger that manipulative that she'd really do that as mafia?

[Gimli]

like enchant as town, I think his ideas are good even if sometimes incomprehensible, because he is looking at the mechanics from deeper more accurate lenses imo

the problem with this game is that all townies have equal or similar power

flipping a n3 today isn't better than flipping a n1, after all. if it's town, it's bad cause we flipped a power.

if we miselim, for instance, the only n3 player we have, then maybe on d4 we'll be thinking of how valuable it'd be to keep that player around.

I don't think the problem is about it being exploitable by mafia necessarily, although we are telegraphing by acting like we're acting here re: n1s

I think the right play is as with everygame: flip the scummiest slot. neither furtive nor range are on my immediate POE, so it suits with the part of the players who are unwilling to flip a n1 claimant.

[Gimli]

VOTE: redff

if furtive and ranger are both town this is wolf 100% of the time

[Gimli]

check redff's wagon hopping on ranger: cause he likes wagon, and then for no reason very deep into d1. hasn't said a word about ranger.

is very willing to murder furtive, it's just pure intent with no thought behind, he just wants to kill him

it vibes alright? like his posts almost feel like a townie. but I don't think this is a townie, I think it's a guy kinda openwoofing it

[Gimli]

The weight of responsibility

do it

[Gimli]

enchant's just looking for one divine hammeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

[Gimli]

yeah I don't know if ranger would doc you

but maybe someone else will

[Gimli]

the odds of furtive or ranger's claim being true equals to the odds of them being town, which is about 75% for each. the odds of them both acting on n1 equals to the odds of them both being town, which is ugh 56%? of course that and not 4% lol if it was 4% we'd have nothing left to discuss

[Gimli]

Why did Enchant unvote redFF, bit sus

he wants to hammer

[Gimli]

the odds of furtive or ranger's claim being true equals to the odds of them being town, which is about 75% for each. the odds of them both acting on n1 equals to the odds of them both being town, which is ugh 56%? of course that and not 4% lol if it was 4% we'd have nothing left to discuss

the odds of them being whatever night whatever thing should NOT count! because otherwise look at what happens: someone's town equity reduces from 75% to only 20% just because they hardclaimed! of course, that can't be accurate.

[Gimli]

so you're saying furtive and/or ranger can be town but not act n1 and be lying about it?

[Gimli]

N1 is the correct thing to claim today, as either Town or Scum.

if furtive comes here tomorrow with a 'hey guise so I'm actually a n2 cop' he'll be hanged for it

so idk how that's correct play

[Gimli]

Who's ignoring them? I haven't just been sitting on Ranger all day and neither has anyone else except, well, Ranger. Who do you have in mind here exactly?

radical rat has spoken almost exclusively about ranger

I disagree that ranger has been focused solely on herself this game, she has reads progression on every player in the game and discussed those reads in almost every page of this game

[Gimli]

ah, you mean her vote. yeah that's too bad.

[Gimli]

@ranger can you just vote redff so we can move on please? I have no interest in flipping you and neither does the majority of players here

I heavily dislike everything RR posted as well, if you wanna put a vote there I might join

[Gimli]

there's no way town!RR comes here with broken ass math arguments and 'you're hiding behind a n1 claim so you don't have to play' wacky statements idt

[Gimli]

I'm strong townreading enchant fwiw

[Gimli]

less than a day left. can we just get something through already?

[Gimli]

Im a cop dont lim me

Severely tempted to vote here just for this post

well?

[Gimli]

[Gimli]

ranger target furtive

[Gimli]

I got a guilty result last night.

Who's guilty?

Just out it there's no point in having a fake day

people getting jumpy lmao

[Gimli]

Curious that neither Ranger nor furtive were killed...

so I'm looking at RR's posts about ranger and I think if RR is a wolf then he is doing enough PR hunt to know that ranger was obviously lying during twilight. it looks otherwise prepped and like RR is framing but my first instinct here is that if rat was a wolf he'd be wise enough not to push a broken narrative

[Gimli]

Cephrir is Mafia, that's my check.

I'd probably guess Ranger and Kawaii for the other 2 but could be others idk

boss

nah I think cephrir spews ranger town

probably kawaii and like idk rat?

[Gimli]

okay i totally buy this

VOTE: furtive

[Gimli]

maybe there's a chance

[Gimli]

Always believe accuser first.

dude im joking

[Gimli]

I know I'm bad but I'm not this bad

[Gimli]

I'm gonna do a few rereads later but I don't really need the thread up so you guys can hammer and we can move on to d3

[Gimli]

if furtive outed himself for absolutely no reason just to flip cephrir, thats okay we'll get him tomorrow

[Gimli]

I changed my mind you guys are too spewy

VOTE: cephrir

lets close the thread

[Gimli]

eh yeah furtive's interaction about korina was p bad

are you trying to make me paranoid you're trying to spew him nonpartnery here when you flip scum so we look at this and go 'why was cephrir talking about furtive being scum like this after he was absolutely the flip'? cause its working lmao

[Gimli]

wow

[Gimli]

if we kill furtive and he is scum then I think that's bad for cephrir cause I think furtive would only do this as scum to flip himself or a partner and spew the other town for endgame

this makes fuckall sense to me otherwise???

[Gimli]

if we kill furtive and he is scum then I think that's bad for cephrir cause I think furtive would only do this as scum to flip himself or a partner and spew the other town for endgame

this makes fuckall sense to me otherwise???

Uhh no?

Fuck no.

That's the worst play. If Furtive or Ceph are alive nearing endgame you kill them. You kill them the round before ELO. Always. Mechanically.

So this play makes 0 sense for scum targetting scum and even if that is what they did we will win from it by killong the other one before ELO.

Furtive was dead to rights anyway so scum furtive targetting a townie to trade and space for his sick team is a good scum move.

they're fucking vt man, why would scum kill them if we're gonna always kill them before ELO?

[Gimli]

std are you townreading lld?

[Gimli]

UNVOTE:

I'll just figure this out later

[Gimli]

My current off the rails theory is {lld, ceph, furtive} playing 4d chess atm

hahahahahaha

[Gimli]

I agree with enchant with stop LLD authority

and I agree with LLD that we should at the very fucking least flip within cephrir and furtive lmao

you guys are upping the ante with every new page

[Gimli]

I think enchant is perplexed that you're voting furtive

that's @ RR

[Gimli]

btw furtive I agree with you this is way outside of what I think of RR's town game

[Gimli]

btw furtive I agree with you this is way outside of what I think of RR's town game

RR is repeating word for word my prose. My takes.

Why is RR scum for agreeing with me when I am not scum for pushing it?

Or do you think my town game is so weak I would push a bad take that scum hop onto?

idk if you're town

I think the ideas are potato but they're your ideas, idk if RR would agree with them though

[Gimli]

I forgot ethel was a player

[Gimli]

in my first mafia game I posted SO MUCH IT WAS SO EXCITING OMG EVERYONE IS MAFIA

ethel's like *reasonable*

idk could be scum? could be a reasonable person

[Gimli]

furtive I'm not saving you cause I think you'll have a nicer time in dead thread than here

[Gimli]

VOTE: cephrir

if furtive is scum he is throwing unless he is scum with cephrir

there furtive

[Gimli]

but like if people don't agree with that then that's fine there will be better games

[Gimli]

omg kawaii is still playing

there simply isnt enough mafia in this game

[Gimli]

cephrir doing the 1v1 like a boss

[Gimli]

you guys are both mafia, is that it? lmao

[Gimli]

ceph/furtive/lld please flea make it happen

[Gimli]

yes

[Gimli]

redFF claims N3 cop: Oh well useless kill lol
Ceph claims Doc: OH WE NEED THIS PR PLEASE DON'T KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lmao

[Gimli]

It's both ridiculous and scandalous, to be sure.

I can't wait for all the manoeuvring and finger pointing tomorrow, as everyone who voted for me decries everyone else who did as scum.

I'll tell you this

if you're town

and THEY FLIP YOU

and it's a wagon full of townies

then idk how the fuck we win

[Gimli]

cephrir isn't playing like scum with a red check

I'm trying to make sense of it but I can't, idk if furtive would fake a red as scum on d2, I think that's throwing?

but I'm thinking... what if the situation is one where furtive has for instance two partners who don't look like they're about to flip anytime soon? and he thinks by all intents and purposes he is for sure getting elimmed next

I mean, it's wonky but I can see that world and idk what to do with it

[Gimli]

i know what you should do with it

I think the mechanical play is to flip you though

I dont think 'cephrir is acting townie' would be a good justification

but anyway I'll think it over I guess

[Gimli]

not even that townie lmao

so cephrir, are you townreading your friend? you're sure posting like you are

[Gimli]

I'm also tentatively townreading ethel just on being reasonable, but I guess if she played survivor on forums and things like that then maybe she might know instinctively how to position herself in these games. I wish she'd open up more though, her posts are very safe

[Gimli]

i know what you should do with it

I think the mechanical play is to flip you though

I dont think 'cephrir is acting townie' would be a good justification

but anyway I'll think it over I guess

Why is flipping Cephrir the "mechanical play?"

we trust the first accuser

its just like enchant said

[Gimli]

where am I misappropriating social justice language?

I'm not scumreading either furtive nor cephrir to be perfectly honest. so idk where to go with this.

[Gimli]

sorry about the social justice language part but if I have to hear one of you call a cop check "the accuser" like it's a sexual assault claim #MeToo one more time I'm going to scream.

it didn't cross my mind that you could interpret me that way, I'll stop using that word altogether

[Gimli]

look LLD I don't want to antagonize with you

I didn't want to flip ranger though, you spent the first 10 whateves pages of the game saying we are flipping ranger cause 'my secret meta'. i can't even fucking argue with it, I'm a player I'm here too. so, I didn't like that. I wouldn't like anybody doing that, it's a team game. if you want things your way you have to be convincing not demanding, imo.

[Gimli]

i kinda want to vote cephrir

yea ok

[Gimli]

did we flip ranger though?

[Gimli]

[Gimli]

I think we flip cephrir

[Gimli]

and I'm hiding behind mech to say that

[Gimli]

As I said before, if we're to assume the worst case scenario and flip whichever of you is Town, you don't have an ability anymore, Cephrir (allegedly) does. Therefore, in the absence of other factors, you're the better elimination. That other factors are also pushing me towards you and not Cephrir cements my decision to vote you.

And I am again genuinely confused by the assertion that I'm "hiding behind LLD." I expressed suspicion first, and while I did agree with most of her logic after it was shared, I've also consistently had my own take on the situation, it doesn't make sense that I'm just coasting off her

sorry I'm a slowpoke. of course it makes more sense to flip furtive, since cephrir might be a doc

[Gimli]

if furtive flips town he is just a vt and we have a red check

the only difference is if he is scum and we killed cephrir we killed tpr

now I understand

[Gimli]

nah we have to flip furtive

[Gimli]

sorry im a slowpoke

VOTE: furtive

[Gimli]

Cephrir really getting em with the AtE...fair play

I don't really care enough, obviously it's 100% mechanically better to vote out the Cop, because I've already used my ability, and we want to keep the fake Doctor around to pretend to heal us, so I've just got to accept this one, because of everyone's amazing logic.

I loved the poem though

have fun in dead chat <3

[Gimli]

I was never owned this hard by a wolf before

[Gimli]

and I have no checks

[Gimli]

I believe umlaut's check. so that's 5 cops already? well at least we got two checks out of it

pretty sure enchant is town
I guess cephrir spewed some people town, I'll have to check it later. I think he spewed me town :eyeroll: but ugh maybe someone else can make that argument
I do feel like std's gameday last day was unpartnery somehow
and if I believe umlaut on ranger then my POE is (lld, rr, kk)? is there anyone else playing?

[Gimli]

yeah no that's the POE

we played like absolute ass and we're still going to win

[Gimli]

I think LLD is the townie in that POE tbh and the scumteam is just RR and KK

[Gimli]

11 posts what a king

[Gimli]

@mod isn't it time to prod kawaii?

[Gimli]

something to consider: scum umlaut would fake a green on scum ranger and take this game to f5 and win. with 4 dead investigates, the possibility is open for a reality in which all the cops are dead. if that is the case, then mafia can fake a check and take it to endgame.

of course we could have 5 or 6 invests instead, in which case mafia would definitely not do that, cause it can be countered by a real check claim with one of them scum.

I'm a n3 doc. if we have an invest and its a n3 invest, then you can out and we can coordinate.

[Gimli]

scum umlaut can also peek ranger town when ranger is town, ofc.

yeah the implications of this game once 4 invests are dead is bad shit

[Gimli]

basically we have no reason to believe anything from this point forward.

except for my doc claim <3

[Gimli]

I only have tonight to act, if we have that specific cop we can coordinate, it might give us auto. it's slim chance but its there

idk did i fuck it up?

[Gimli]

Why couldn't he?

and be outed mafia?

[Gimli]

VOTE: ceph

ez game

[Gimli]

excellent conclusion

[Gimli]

Obvious choice for the last scum is Kame, but I'm worried it's too easy. RR is basically gamethrowing here if that's the case so I want to think about it more.

yeah I don't know anything anymore

idk why the fuck enchant didn't claim?

[Gimli]

well anyway

VOTE: radical rat

still probably voting kawaii f5 and then figuring things out from there

[Gimli]

I don't really think RR does this without a deep wolf lined up to win btw

but I still think we better flip kawaii before eLo

[Gimli]

jesus christ man

so like if we coordinated this well enough we could have enchant alive on d5 with a check if he was a n4 which would've been huge

instead you did this thing and yeah you're right if you're town scum did not believe you but also they've POE'd down enchant exactly as the last cop???? I have to figure out why that would happen

RR have you softed anywhere that you were actually lying and scum could tell because of that?

[Gimli]

this is how things looked for scum last night:

kawaii - no claim
ranger - n1 doc claimant
me - n3 doc claimant
std - no claim
RR - n3 cop claimant (not actual cop)
LL - no claim
enchant - no claim

POE for last cop for scum:

RR/LL/STD/kawaii/enchant

now let's say for some god knows what reason, scum KNEW it wasn't RR. their cop POE for the night is: kawaii/std/ll/enchant. if RR is scum then it's the same POE.

now would scum RR claim 6th when there's a 6th? certainly, he'd claim 6th if there's only 5. but if umlaut is a cop and there's a 6th, why the fucking hell would RR do this bonkers af gambit? I'm not seeing the scum motivation, otoh scum had to know he was lying???

current theory is: the two scums are in ll/std/kawaii, and their POE for cop was either of these + enchant and they shot enchant.

maybe scum wouldn't shoot kawaii cause he is limbait

[Gimli]

if there's six

and umlaut is town and claims cop with ranger check
and RR is town and claims cop and that its going to check in ranger/umlaut
and scum can't kill RR

what does scum do here? I think it kills ranger 100% of the time

[Gimli]

but the thing we can't ignore is that they hit the cop, I don't think that was accidental, I think that was POEing down the last cop and that's amazing to me

I don't think scum is like kawa/std or some other potato combination

they went cop cop cop

they somehow, I mean we ended up limming furtive? that's a very odd game and we're getting screwed

what I'm trying to say is I kinda think LLD has to be scum a lot in this game, I think she is the one brainy enough to set up the absolute ass we're making of ourselves

[Gimli]

I don't mean std and kawa are potatoes I'm sorry

I meant like it has to be a SPICY team you see what im saying?

[Gimli]

but also I can't make up for the fact that scum didn't believe RR unless that's written somewhere in this game from their posting

so I also think RR is probably scum? and the team is RR/LLD and I can see LLD voting umlaut and yeah this makes sense to me rn

[Gimli]

also considering how everything went I probably did misplay my doctor horribly as well and am part of everything bad that happened last gameday

[Gimli]

this is how things looked for scum last night:

kawaii - no claim
ranger - n1 doc claimant
me - n3 doc claimant
std - no claim
RR - n3 cop claimant (not actual cop)
LL - no claim
enchant - no claim

POE for last cop for scum:

RR/LL/STD/kawaii/enchant

now let's say for some god knows what reason, scum KNEW it wasn't RR. their cop POE for the night is: kawaii/std/ll/enchant. if RR is scum then it's the same POE.

now would scum RR claim 6th when there's a 6th? certainly, they'd claim 6th if there's only 5. but if umlaut is a cop and there's a 6th, why the fucking hell would RR do this bonkers af gambit? I'm not seeing the scum motivation, otoh scum had to know RR was lying???

current theory is: the two scums are in ll/std/kawaii, and their POE for cop was either of these + enchant and they shot enchant.

maybe scum wouldn't shoot kawaii cause he is limbait

pronoun fixing sry RR...

[Gimli]

if RR is a n4 doc like he is saying we had it yeah

enchant claims n4

I save him n3
RR saves him n4

[Gimli]

*like they were saying

pedit: oh. yeah. okay.

I shouldn't have claimed anything in hindsight

[Gimli]

The important thing to determine the full scum team is figure out why enchant was shot. I think that by itself means there are 6 cops, because the enchant kill is a cop hunt.

I don't think there's anything in either RR or umlaut's postings that cause me to think scum would know either is lying. If either is lying and scum could tell that, it's because one of them is scum.

Could RR do that as scum? Yes, as long as their POE for the last cop was very clear. RR would draw the protectives away from the real cop, kill them, and then try to talk themselves out of it like RR is doing here. That means the pool of kk/lld/std contains a partner + there might be something in either std or llds posts that spews them not cop. I'll have to check it later. But if scum's cop POE has something like kk and enchant, ofc they're not killing kk cause it'd be easier to deal with discrediting him after he claims.

That's my first theory. Scum team would be RR/std or RR/lld. Both work well as RR has been townreading both without interacting much with them.

If RR flips town, then we have to assume umlaut is scum, and then the game gets immensely difficult

[Gimli]

my goodness

[Gimli]

if tomorrow is elo then I don't see how scum doesn't either shoot ranger or holsters

ranger going 'defend lld or i'm going to tunnel you' doesn't help

neither does it help eliminating the likelier town in the rr/umlaut pair

[Gimli]

I hope kawa is scum anyway

[Gimli]

std and lld also spent a huge chunk of the game just letting town eat itself up

meh

[Gimli]

first

[Gimli]

we're still in elo

of course, if RR is scum he needs to holster, this is entirely expected

[Gimli]

Vote Count 4-FINAL

Radical Rat

(2)

:

Umlaut - Gimli

Umlaut

(4)

:

Lady Lambdadelta - Radical Rat - Ranger - KawaiiKame

Not Voting

(1)

:

Save The Dragons

With 7 players in the game, 4 are required to Yeet unto the Eternal Void .

Day ends in (expired on 2023-04-06 09:17:30)

Mod Notes

Umlaut is V/LA!

Pronouns are visible under a players name, please use them. If you're unsure, ask!

I'll start with the idea that both scum are behind this flip. so its a (lld/rr/kk) pool

I'm clearing std for not being on that wagon. considering the way he was posting, I'd be surprised if he suddenly voted umlaut. I can't read std if I try, so I'm taking him having a minimally protown stance in the game as a good enough foundation to clearing him. that's how I townleaned std in haunted village, for unvoting on d1 (although we were wagoning a wolf that day).

also std is a very opportunistically wolf. if he is svs with RR I'm sure he'd be on that wagon earlier or at least positioned to do it

[Gimli]

*opportunistic wolf

[Gimli]

and like I don't think I can parse out the other three

[Gimli]

all points to RR/kawa I guess

but it can still be lld

[Gimli]

if we have a n5 doctor we have a chance of not being in elo

massclaim bad imo?

[Gimli]

Well I was very wrong yesterday, and I apologize for that. Clearly I hadn't thought things through as much as I should have before attempting such a play.

In any case, I protected Ranger, because despite her protests, I wasn't ever NOT going to heal the only truly conftown slot in the game, and I'd hoped her threatening me into protecting LLD would convince scum I wouldn't be healing her. Seems either I was right, or they holstered for WIFOM.

In any case, I think at this point it has to be KawaiiKame. Hammer yesterday felt really opportunistic, and them being the only one to just take my shenanigans at face value doesn't sit well with me.

Beyond that, I'd say probably LLD is my guess. Significantly less confident there though.

how was the hammer opportunistic from your standpoint if the wagons were tvt?

[Gimli]

not killing is much stronger play and one I would absolutely 100% go for if I'm playing from RR's position if I'm scum here

scum doesn't need to flip an unclear, they're playing elo either way

if someone else died I'd absolutely think RR was mafia

[Gimli]

not killing is much stronger play and one I would absolutely 100% go for if I'm playing from RR's position if I'm scum here

scum doesn't need to flip an unclear, they're playing elo either way

if someone else died I'd absolutely think RR was mafia

If the play that you think I would do DIDN'T happen, you'd think it was me?

I'm saying its the stronger/more correct play from scum

killing outside a clear is absolute potatoes. if it did happen, I'd think it'd be more likely that you're scum just removing someone to have better numbers in elo, but I think it'd be a misplay. if ranger died I'd be certain you'd be scum.

the correct play since you claimed doctor was to holster and then claim your target. it creates the impression that you made a save while keeping the odds of winning the eLo the same.

I also think LLD would probably claim the n4 save as scum either with or without you. to me none of this changes anything.

[Gimli]

I don't understand why you want to know if we have a n5 or not

scum doesnt always shoot the only likely doctor ESPECIALLY if the doctor is kawaii

[Gimli]

you only shoot for a win on a townflip

what are you even saying lld

[Gimli]

std still hasn't posted any content

kawa's post is ????? but idk if I was expecting much better than that

I just feel like it's not my fault that we're in this mess and I don't have any motivation to sort the slots so I'll just go with whatever ranger thinks in the end

[Gimli]

im not sure that's ai atm

[Gimli]

korina's posts were super bad yeah

[Gimli]

its the only conclusion he could make

[Gimli]

if kawa is the actual n5 actual doctor then the rand trolled us hard