Micro 1071: MafiaInFreezer v2023 (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

My Mafiascum inbox is full

3000/3000 messages

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Ydrasse

It feels like you are putting up a front which is what you do as mafia IMO

[Dunnstral]

i have to make my stand but here is my second spiritual vote

On who?

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dunn i am pinching your cheeks right now do you really think i am putting up a front

I don't like your posting from 6 to 29 because it feels like you are trying to appear sociable which I associate with your scum game

I agree with your posts 35 and 36 in that the hesitation Kilga was showing seemed like an over-explanation after the fact, possibly in an attempt to show a thought process

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

So how is this game different from what you do as mafia so far

[Dunnstral]

You made an rvs vote then voted the mod

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Spoiler:

not terribly i think, i feel like i usually distinguish myself as town after i solve some or if you can see if i have some weird positioning or planning. but i just get -_- despite this because i feel like it’s nai to me when i get excited at a game starting

OK Ydrsussy. Or rather Naidrasse.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Ydrasse

UNVOTE: Ydrasse

Of all the presences in the thread so far, VOTE: Wavelength sticks in my mind the least by a fair amount.

Feels like !science is trying to push continued beginning-of-day-1 jokiness a little harder and a little longer than everyone else. Would be willing to vote there too.

Why do you feel that having the lowest presence is worth a vote right now?

[Dunnstral]

Especially since you have another read with substance to it right below it

[Dunnstral]

It may surprise you that I also subscribe to not being a huge fan of Day 1 lurker votes! If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. But, to me, that's a concern for then; right now, I'm willing to give !science a little bit of slack to see if the behavior changes, I actively feel varying degrees of good about everyone else, and it's still early on Day 1, so my vote is where it is.

Also, you were going through a mental exercise of the player list in your head on Page 3?

Yes, actually. With the way my personal schedule works, I am able to briefly peruse the game thread from time to time during the daytime, but actual posting windows come later, once work is over for the day and there's a lull in domestic responsibilities. The exercise in question was me checking up on my memories once I hit a posting window. I reached the conclusion I did, found that nothing had meaningfully changed since my last brief perusal session, and so I voted accordingly.

If we voted Wavelength to e-1 right now, would you unvote them?

[Dunnstral]

I think that Syryana could be mafia

In post 54 they have the elimination set between Kilga and Sircakez; I believe other people started this first but there is a sense of rushing the day here that I don't really understand.

In post 69 they agree with Catboi that I am town. For Catboi I am assuming a healthy (?) dose of meta was used to come to that conclusion as I only have 3 posts at this point; and 4 when Syryana agrees. But I don't know how Syryana came to that conclusion; I haven't played with them as much, I see a 2021 game and then all the way back to 2017, so it's got to be on stuff I posted in the thread, and it feels like the read came out too quickly to me.

77 indicates suspicion on notscience but they then vote sircakez and kilga after instead

In post 95 I'm not sure how they are so confident

Post 97 is again a feeling of rushing

In conclusion: Seems "sus"

[Dunnstral]

It may surprise you that I also subscribe to not being a huge fan of Day 1 lurker votes! If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. But, to me, that's a concern for then; right now, I'm willing to give !science a little bit of slack to see if the behavior changes, I actively feel varying degrees of good about everyone else, and it's still early on Day 1, so my vote is where it is.

Also, you were going through a mental exercise of the player list in your head on Page 3?

Yes, actually. With the way my personal schedule works, I am able to briefly peruse the game thread from time to time during the daytime, but actual posting windows come later, once work is over for the day and there's a lull in domestic responsibilities. The exercise in question was me checking up on my memories once I hit a posting window. I reached the conclusion I did, found that nothing had meaningfully changed since my last brief perusal session, and so I voted accordingly.

If we voted Wavelength to e-1 right now, would you unvote them?

No. I have sufficient faith that a hypothetical town-on-town quickhammer would not come to pass, and all of the other results are beneficial long term.

But you said that if your vote was there near end of day it should be cause for concern, right?

It seems like you are fine with running up Wavelength now, which seems at odds with you not being a huge fan of lurker votes, but then also thinking they are usually mafia. Your logic doesn't make sense to me. I'm not sure how you think voting Wavelength at end of day is bad but running them up to elimination right now is fine.

[Dunnstral]

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you asking me why voting for someone Early Day 1 for Early Day 1 reasons is different from voting for someone Late Day 1 for Early Day 1 reasons? If that's not what you're asking, can you clarify what you are asking so I can answer you better?

You are willing to vote them out now, I am wondering why it is different if they are run up now or if nothing happens and you vote for somebody else later.

Oh, a distinction should probably be made between "player that doesn't post very much" and "player who lacks meaningful presence". I had the former in mind with my Day 1 Lurker Votes comment. My vote for Wavelength is for the latter reason.

As Wavelength points out; what is up with the first half of your post 106 then? You don't seem to be making that distinction there.

[Dunnstral]

Why would I make this game so difficult for myself if I was scum here
I could have literally just RVSed like normal and jumped on the Kilga train or some shit

Is this implying that Kilga is town

[Dunnstral]

Why did you make it "difficult" as town then?

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I think 134 is a good post

[Dunnstral]

Like, if you disagree with the logic of 103, that's one thing. That can be discussed to a degree, even though I suspect that would eventually boil down to playstyle differences. But acting like 103 didn't happen at all is another matter entirely. Don't just buy into wordless reaction images because they're clever or something. :|

I think you are contradicting yourself though. I agree with the following:

Either:
It is not a lurker vote, and has more to it then just post count.
OR
It is a lurker vote, but because we are far from deadline it is okay - and catboi should be suspicious only if he keeps a lurker vote closer to deadline.

But Kilga argues both angles in different posts.

To me it looks like you (Kilga) are saying two different things. My issue is that in post 106 you say if your vote is still there catboi should be worried, which to me doesn't make sense if you are not voting based on lurkiness

[Dunnstral]

It may surprise you that I also subscribe to not being a huge fan of Day 1 lurker votes! If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. But, to me, that's a concern for then; right now, I'm willing to give !science a little bit of slack to see if the behavior changes, I actively feel varying degrees of good about everyone else, and it's still early on Day 1, so my vote is where it is.

Oh, a distinction should probably be made between "player that doesn't post very much" and "player who lacks meaningful presence". I had the former in mind with my Day 1 Lurker Votes comment. My vote for Wavelength is for the latter reason.

I feel that these two posts are two different explanations for the same vote

The part that snags me is where he says "If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. ". That makes no sense to me if they do not consider their vote to be on a lurker.

[Dunnstral]

I feel that these two posts are two different explanations for the same vote

The part that snags me is where he says "If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. ". That makes no sense to me if they do not consider their vote to be on a lurker.

I think we're on the same page here but just to make sure: the first post Kilga says "hey, I don't like voting lurkers but it's early and I like everyone else so the hell with it I'm voting Wavelength for being a lurker" versus the second post where Kilga says "oh when I said lurker a second ago I meant people with low post count but I'm voting Wavelength for low thread presence, not being a lurker".

This part is correct

And the part that bothers you is the retcon of the reason Kilga is voting Wavelength, right? It doesn't work as a clarification because in the second post Kilga implies they were never voting WL for being a lurker which contradicts the aside to catboi about being worried for voting a lurker near the end of day.

More specifically what bothers me is that in the first post they say they should be worried if their vote on Wavelength is still there at the end of the day. Because I don't think that lines up with the retcon (because if they're not voting for being a lurker, why would they be worried?)

[Dunnstral]

I don't think that over-explaining is a good scum tell, personally.

[Dunnstral]

wow this fell off a cliff huh

Since it was largely brushed past the first time and the thread is slow, what do you think of what I am saying in 115 when I cased Syryana

[Dunnstral]

I am reading Kilga's big post and am a little befuddled. I don't think I fully understand what they are trying to say.

I see they are explaining their thought process and that is fine. But when they say "that is where 106 is coming from" I don't really get it because I still feel like they were both saying it is a lurker vote but also not, and I don't think that part was directly addressed and it instead talks about something slightly different.

I guess I'll think about it, or maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

[Dunnstral]

Why would I make this game so difficult for myself if I was scum here
I could have literally just RVSed like normal and jumped on the Kilga train or some shit

Is this implying that Kilga is town

What I actually meant with this post is that it seemed SirCakez was under the assumption that Kilga was town here.

I read it as if SirCakez was mafia, they would have joined the Kilga wagon, and I am wondering if this is assuming that Kilga is a member of the town that would be a miselimination in SirCakez scenario.

Shortly after I made this post I reconsidered and thought that the above was a bit of a stretch. With that said I'm not sure what scenario SirCakez is speaking from when they respond to me: them as hypothetical mafia or them as town. That is to say, are they saying anyone over them if they were mafia or just in general.

I think that SirCakez not considering that they could be killed is a bigger strike against them.

[Dunnstral]

Coincidentally PYP just ended so I can talk about how I pushed a tracker claim day 1 in that game and they ended up being town. However, the argument for leaving them alive was that they would self resolve somehow, and that never happened - they ended up being miseliminated on day 4 or so while the town spent the time until then thinking they were mafia the whole time, And I think it would have been better to have eliminated them earlier in that game.

Maybe this being a micro makes things different. Tracker is a stronger role in a smaller setup. A mafia tracker isn't impossible though.

[Dunnstral]

Do you not think claiming tracker will get you killed?

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[Dunnstral]

My read on Ydrasse has flipped now - I feel like she is town vs what was going on at the start of the game.
I agree with a lot of what Wavelength is posting, so that feels town to me too. I could understand what they were saying with the gifs at the start too.
I like notscience's sense of towny righteousness recently. That feels like it comes from town.
And I vaguely like what catboi has posted, not a confident townread but not where I am looking on day 1.

LLD I don't know because she is not making herself very readable. IMO she is projecting false confidence to push eliminations but I am not sure if that is town or mafia. I don't think this is out of character for them but I do find it hard to read on day 1.
Kilga I didn't like their initial explanations for their vote on Wavelength. I read 167 but didn't feel it cleanly addressed what was being talked about. I do see now that they are approaching the game with a different mindset.

For Syryana I outlined my problems with them and they didn't feel the need to address that for whatever reason.

Sircakez is the scummiest player for me. They pulled out a tracker claim to avoid being eliminated, but earlier in the day they wanted to make things difficult for themselves to see what happens, even while saying they are often miseliminated. I don't really believe that they were making things difficult on purpose just for fun. I think they are talking to LLD like they are town for sure and their recent shift to Kilga as mafia is survivalistic as it looks like the next person most likely to go through.
I have an issue with the recent notscience case too, as their reasons for scumreading notscience early on should have been easy to explain as notscience hadn't done much early but instead they felt like they needed to take several hours to sit down and look over the game again to put something together. But I think they should have been able to quickly explain what they had been thinking in the past instead of looking to create a new case.

VOTE: SirCakez

[Dunnstral]

Sorry SirCakez.

notscience, does this change your reads? Or what are they, even

[Dunnstral]

I feel a little bit skeeved out by Dunn appearing to mirror everything that I had to say about Cakez

This was a misunderstanding, I was conveying what I was thinking rather than trying to put forth new ideals. I had your posts in mind and agreed with them; I wasn't trying to steal your content.

I was explaining where my head was at and what parts I took issue with.

[Dunnstral]

notscience, does this change your reads? Or what are they, even

I am still interested in this

[Dunnstral]

notscience, does this change your reads? Or what are they, even

I am still interested in this

I think you’re town

Me voting SirCakez doesn't change anything for you?

[Dunnstral]

wavelength kill kind of feels like "hide the evidence" Kind of kill

What does this mean?

[Dunnstral]

i think that people thought wavelength was towny but i don't really know what wavelength did to be The Kill in this playerlist beyond that, i feel with less experience w people here it may not offer as much flip-spew

I think Wavelength could have been killed for one of their previously stated reads

I think the opportunity for obfuscation is there because Wavelength pointed at me right before the thread closed so they could be hoping people latched onto that instead

After writing the above though I see they have no real scum reads in 179 so maybe not after all.

[Dunnstral]

What are the concerns w Dunn

I really really really hated his final post pre-Night1 after you hammered Cakez. I'm rereading it now to figure out why I hated it so much but I definitely felt it was performative

Pedit holy shit beetlejuice

Sometimes I just start explaining everything I'm thinking without it being asked for. And other people are invited to comment.

[Dunnstral]

hot take:

VOTE: LLD

I think she's not been towny where other people have exhibited some signs and in the back of my mind I have been thinking the wavelength kill makes sense as a low info kill.

When you are comfortable talking about this again, why do you associate low-info kill with LLD

[Dunnstral]

I did have similar doubts to syr on that dunn post

I feel like it's not uncommon for me to make posts like that, do you disagree with that?

I'm not understanding the pushback

[Dunnstral]

Hold on let's back up

In 351 Syryana says my post felt performative


In post 411 catboi says they have similar doubts to Syr

But now you are saying that it is normal for me to make posts like that and you just had a bad

feeling

, and also say I could be over-explaining

So what is it? Am I being performative, am I over-explaining, or do you have a bad feeling?

[Dunnstral]

Alright, well, you're here now. Where are you at?

I'm rereading the end of Day 1 to fully form opinions

I kind of think notty's posting is

not great

still but wouldn't really be shocked for him to flip town, Dunn/ydrasse/kilga/you I've been starting to feel are surface-level okay but I haven't really bothered to contemplate you more deeply, my brain has not fully clicked to actually thinking about this game yet.

In this post I'm surface level ok recently, and this is after Syr takes issue with my post

Which makes it look like you are lying right now when you say you just had a bad feeling about my post. Because you are contradicting yourself

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: catboi

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: catboi

That makes sense and means it's not a clear-cut contradiction like I thought it was, so I am retracting my vote

[Dunnstral]

Of which post? ^

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think is town?

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think is town?

Ydra.

And what is your reasoning for that read?

[Dunnstral]

@notscience who do you think the mafia is

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think is town?

Ydra.

And what is your reasoning for that read?

tone, mostly. approach feels town, tone feels town, posts look nervous and reflexive in a way that is indicative of Ydra sorting and wanting to have a good game rather than seeing opportunity.

So are you willing to eliminate pretty much anyone else then? Or is it more complex than that?

[Dunnstral]

Since you quoted that again, I'm not sure what catboi is getting at by giving notscience a chance to play. We have already been here for ~2 weeks of unlocked thread time.

[Dunnstral]

Ydrasse I feel you haven't gone beyond saying you don't like my vote on the sircakez wagon with your read on me. It seems that is the only thing you are considering, which is curious as you seem to h ave narrowed down your suspects to four people pretty early on into this day but it doesn't feel like you are working to sift through those reads.

[Dunnstral]

I think it would help to go point back to the start of the conversation between Kilga/Ydrasse and point out how you think it progressed.

Something like: In post #, this happened. And then in post #, this other thing happened

[Dunnstral]

I am also losing the thread of what you are talking about as this conversation has been spread out over something like 10 real life days

[Dunnstral]

Ydrasse I feel you haven't gone beyond saying you don't like my vote on the sircakez wagon with your read on me. It seems that is the only thing you are considering, which is curious as you seem to h ave narrowed down your suspects to four people pretty early on into this day but it doesn't feel like you are working to sift through those reads.

Also you did not give me a reply to this

[Dunnstral]

What are your own thoughts on catboi?

[Dunnstral]

To me it looks like you are entertaining catboi as mafia, second to your read on ydrasse.

LLD and Syryana are saying catboi could be mafia, but you are getting cold feet because you are not fully convinced that catboi is mafia?

[Dunnstral]

I don't like the way you seemed to be fear mongering when you said that you were wary of other people saying that you and catboi is not TvT. You didn't really point to anyone and call their behavior suspicious IMO, it looked more like you were trying to get us to second guess ourselves. You also didn't answer me in 556/557

I don't believe that you really though you were hammered above, especially since catboi pointed out you were at e-2 and there was a vote count at the top of the page. I also think if you were town you would have thrown in your claim at some point in the last page or so here if you really think you are eliminated/about to be eliminated.

Finally, your vote on Syryana and turnabout on catboi makes no sense to me.

VOTE: Kilgamayan

[Dunnstral]

I don't believe that you really though you were hammered above

Serious talk here for a moment though. ADHD sucks, what can I say. I'll own up to the mistake, but I'd appreciate it if you to revisit this comment postgame.

I apologize if that was insensitive

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: No Elimination

[Dunnstral]

I'm VT.

I think somebody who is town is lying about being a VT because I find it hard to believe we only have a tracker and a 1-shot bulletproof.

[Dunnstral]

If I assume Catboi/LLD are not performing theater right now, there should be at least 1 in Syryana/Notscience

I'm not sure if I want to make that assumption yet though, from my memory this push only came out near the end of the phase. I guess LLD was voting catboi over kilga

Syr, notsci, what do you make of this?

[Dunnstral]

If I was forced to vote somebody right now, I'd vote for Syryana

[Dunnstral]

I thought you townread me catboi?

[Dunnstral]

But why is that someone me instead of syr/notsci if you were townreading me but less so for the other two?

[Dunnstral]

I think that Syryana has constantly been on the wrong side of things this game. They pushed for Sircakez and then pushed for Kilga. And they also pushed notscience yesterday and tried to set up kilga/yourself as not being aligned yesterday (yet you don't take issue with that?) along with LLD

[Dunnstral]

Although Dunn's 637 is making my trigger finger itch

Do you disagree that you have been on the wrong side of things?

[Dunnstral]

Quote numbers are borked

[Dunnstral]

Is that at me?

[Dunnstral]

Alright let's re-frame this.

I came into today saying that I think Syryana looks like mafia due to how they have played this game.

Three people rebutted me by saying that other people did the same thing. Syryana is calling me a hypocrite.

None of that is really addressing the point I made, I feel like it is deflecting. Even if I'm a hypocrite I know I'm not mafia so it is reasonable for me to think that Syryana is mafia, no? I think that Syryana feels worse because it looks like they are guiding each elimination. To compare that to me, I feel like my votes were all after the majority had reached a consensus - so I feel Syryana comes out looking more sinister.

And people are townreading Syryana "just because" in limlo after this.

It's not a slam dunk but it feels the most likely to me. Notice that Syryana is just deflecting in the above post.

[Dunnstral]

You say I guided each elimination. Show evidence of this claim.

At the start of day 1 you are pushing both SirCakez and Kilga, which I believe were both popular pushes at the start of the game. In posts 190 and 247 you switch to pushing SirCakez who ends up being the elimination; you are the third vote our of five so you are the one who pushes this into viability this day phase.

On day 2 you agree with LLD that Catboi/Kilga are not both town in 554 and then move to vote in 558 when Kilga expresses paranoia towards that. You are the second vote on the wagon out of four and manage to convince notscience to join you too. At this point there is less than 24 hours on the clock so I think it is fair to say that this wagon would not have easily shifted to somebody else.

And today you seem to have forgotten the above. Do you think that Kilga/Catboi was not T/T, or do you think that LLD was setting up elims. I'm not seeing either stance from you and a lot of keeping your options open. Instead you're coming after me because I said I thought you were mafia instead of going after previously stated beliefs.

[Dunnstral]

Why does syr scum backtrack on me and readflip like he did though? Like I feel like if anyone here he’s actually had a decent bit of depth to trying to push and do things despite being wrong

Well look how pocketed you are right now

[Dunnstral]

wow this fell off a cliff huh

Since it was largely brushed past the first time and the thread is slow, what do you think of what I am saying in 115 when I cased Syryana

I did quite like Dunn's case on Syr, and could lend my support there I guess -- or can just watch cakez go through.

Either outcome is fine from where I am sitting atm

UNVOTE: Ydrasse
VOTE: Syryana

For posterity.

I will not vote for myself for the sake of not playing against my win condition, but I would not hold it against anyone to cast the fourth vote at this point. If my death and flip is enough to show everyone that Syr has overplayed his hand here, that's about all I can ask. If anyone alive on Day 3 intends to vote for catboi using our spat today as justification, please reconsider.

my funny team guess is now syr/notsci because i think it would be "bussing for no reason" in current state with the day one loser banter being a little cherry on top

Three out of four townies have died while indicating suspicion on Syryana, two by night kill

[Dunnstral]

You're supposed to be talking to me I'm pretty sure

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Syryana

You vote too LLD and see what catboi/notsci say?

[Dunnstral]

LLD it was me, I didn't want to botch a quick hammer and have syr unvote

[Dunnstral]

We weren't being malicious

notsci was in and out, and I was also in and out taking care of a dog. I suggested we do it steady instead of risk having it blow up because syr showed up and unvoted

[Dunnstral]

Okay, so let's review.

Syr votes me and then it's dead silent forever. I break that silence, you both show up and you decide OH OKAY SURE INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING "when the clock turns to XX:YY vote LLD" you try to manipulate me into thinking I can still win the game, make me cast the losing vote.

And then when all of that is done and Notty reveals it I go "huh?" "oh it's notty + catboi, got it"

and Notty posts AGAIN AFTER THAT

and it's ONLY ONCE YOU TELL ME Dunn that you're scum that you end the slowroll.

I was trying to secure our win, not make fun of you. I assume notsci was letting me reveal myself

[Dunnstral]

With all due respect, If you want the game to end the moment the mafia team is capable of doing so, you should give the mafia team the ability to do so without risk by allowing one member to post to end the game without having to coordinate anything. Otherwise I personally don't want to take the risk when we can win without doing so. Indeed, the only chance we had of "throwing" that was if we tried to quick hammer and bungled it up, which is what we tried to avoid.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: like this

[Dunnstral]

bork while you're here, do you see that the numbers in the quotes are mismatched with the actual posts. Likely due to GiF deleting a post at some point