Election! | GAME OVER

[GuiltyLion]

Basically, GL's "The gamestate is wonky read" would be entirely reasonable in a normal game, but in specifically this game we KNOW why the gamestate is wonky and it isn't the normally reasonable explanation.

I still think what I am pointing to when I say it's "wonky" is different than what you are asserting that it is, and not entirely caused by the set-up, but I don't know if there's anything more to be gained from continuing to bicker about it unless you want me to explain further.

[Thestatusquo]

Vote Count 3.4

Ircher [ 3 ]

Alisae, Bingle, Unowen

Sleepykrew [ 3 ]

Furtiveglance, Guiltylion, Sheepsaysmeep

Furtiveglance [ 3 ]

lady lambdadelta, Andante, Ircher

Not Voting [ 2 ]

Save the dragons, Sleepykrew

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2023-03-23 14:38:00)

[GuiltyLion]

@sheep, have you played with Andante before?

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Ircher

I think if Bingle is town then this is scum

And if Bingle is scum then this is still scum

Dunno what to make of SK I think he has decent odds of scum but miseliminating him would probably fuck up the game worse than an Ircher flip. It's possible both SK/Ircher are both scum

[SleepyKrew]

is everyone besides GL also out of town

[Lady Lambdadelta]

is everyone besides GL also out of town

i'm just demotivated in general and trying to stay in the game and focused

[Bingle]

I just wanna say - yeah, this is my argument. Townies are far more likely to not read the game for mechanics and setup information than scum are. scum are the only ones who are going to have a PT where they are coordinating with their teammates. Like I said to Dragons, making an assumption that the mafia members are trying to win the game rarely fails me. Town players have a lot more leeway to not pay attention and be detached and yet still be playing to an 'acceptable' standard.

Sample bias here, but I have had more than my fair share of scumteams who said fuckall during the dayphase. And in fact, NOT giving your partner noncritical setup information (critical being "Your slot is a fakeclaimed cop with a result on this player.") is a completely valid strategy even if you do talk to your scumteam, because it helps you to appear more natural. This means that to me, your assertion that scum are more likely to know setup information is just flat wrong. But that's irrelevant.

The disconnect is that you're asserting that Town Ircher falling asleep at the wheel is far more likely than all of: {scum Ircher was falling asleep at the wheel, scum Ircher's team didn't feed him information about what nightkill they would be making during the night phase and why, scum Ircher actually did know about the doctor, but thought townIrcher wouldn't and so pretended he didn't}.

My biggest issue with Ircher himself, as stated multiple times, is that he's been doing things that are in line with explanation 3. So the townslip argument is roughly equivalent to "Ircher can't be faking not knowing about something because he didn't know about that thing." Which is circular nonsense.

[GuiltyLion]

The disconnect is that you're asserting that Town Ircher falling asleep at the wheel is far more likely than all of: {scum Ircher was falling asleep at the wheel, scum Ircher's team didn't feed him information about what nightkill they would be making during the night phase and why, scum Ircher actually did know about the doctor, but thought townIrcher wouldn't and so pretended he didn't}.

My biggest issue with Ircher himself, as stated multiple times, is that he's been doing things that are in line with explanation 3. So the townslip argument is roughly equivalent to "Ircher can't be faking not knowing about something because he didn't know about that thing." Which is circular nonsense.

mm ok this helps me see your POV

I do think it's far more likely that town!Ircher falls asleep at the wheel than scum!Ircher falls asleep at the wheel or scum!Ircher's team didn't feed him any information on replace in about what's going on.

however i agree that explanation 3 is possible, especially after UNOwen's 3590, that helped me understand what he (and you) are saying. I don't think it's a hard townslip.

that being said, I think you're misrepping me with the last bit there - I never meant to argue that Ircher

can't

be faking, rather my position has always been "IF he's not faking, then he's town". and I think in a vacuum it's more likely he wasn't faking than he was. but at the same time I see that there's enough reason to think it's possible that he

was

faking.

[Bingle]

is everyone besides GL also out of town

I suppose I'm just chopped liver then. :sadpanda:

[Bingle]

I say it's "wonky" is different than what you are asserting that it is

I don't think it is, really. Even in the case that you're town, I think the disconnect is that I think the change in gamestate explains the wonky and you don't. I'm basing my thoughts on the fact that as a town player in this game not being able to progress with pushing the wagon I have confidence in is severely hampering my will to go out and do more work, because of both the lack of other people doing so and the perception that it's not time sensitive because even if I do a word by word analysis of the entire thread and find a complete solve and am 100% right I will have to wait some indeterminate amount of time before seeing any returns.

You've proposed an explanation for why the gamestate is the way it is (scum is happy with the way things are going) but I don't think it's right and I think my alternative explanation matches what I'm seeing better, particularly since I've felt this way since before the meowth flip and I very much doubt that burning a buddy on D1 was part of scum's master plan.

[Bingle]

And keep in mind that I am literally the person with the second most posts in thread and one of if not the highest content:fluff ratios. If I'M feeling gamestate lethargy because I feel like I'm just going to be stuck waiting anyway, I think it's pretty reasonable that other people who aren't as active are feeling it even more so.

[sheepsaysmeep]

@sheep, have you played with Andante before?

Don’t think so

[GuiltyLion]

@sheep, have you played with Andante before?

Don’t think so

basically I don't think the stuff you're calling out in 3791 is scum-indicative for her

[furtiveglance]

I think I'll move my vote, the gamestate really needs it.

Reasons: Neither Ircher, Lorne Malvo, nor Herta were particularly towny. I thought Gimli was a bit but that's only 1/4. Besides, I don't see why scum would be avoiding my wagon at the moment, and Ircher is probably my best bet over LLD or Andante. Also, maybe other players are seeing something that I can't.

My requests for the future: If I die, vote out SleepyKrew. A green-checked Cop should be protected. I don't think SleepyKrew would green his teammate in that situation, because he was in real danger of flipping today.

This is E-1.

VOTE: Ircher

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

Don't put anyone at E-1 until we have confirmation of funding from LLD. A scum player could theoretically stop our funding and cripple town power by selfhammering there.

[SleepyKrew]

is everyone besides GL also out of town

i'm just demotivated in general and trying to stay in the game and focused

I will shout encouragement at you later. Hope it helps.

[SleepyKrew]

is everyone besides GL also out of town

I suppose I'm just chopped liver then. :sadpanda:

all the new player posts when I woke up were from GL! can’t argue with facts.

[Bingle]

can’t argue with facts.

Spoken like someone who doesn't play a lot of mafia.

[Andante]

Don't put anyone at E-1 until we have confirmation of funding from LLD. A scum player could theoretically stop our funding and cripple town power by selfhammering there.

is this true? someone told me even if we hammered it wouldn't matter till funding... someone lied to me?

[Andante]

Don't put anyone at E-1 until we have confirmation of funding from LLD. A scum player could theoretically stop our funding and cripple town power by selfhammering there.

cause if this is a lie, I feel like this is more likely to come from scum "oh lol didn't know the rules" when like, it was literally just said

[UNOwen]

bejkhbcavfes;ihbvjafbesjverhkjgahvkrewv

[SleepyKrew]

Don't put anyone at E-1 until we have confirmation of funding from LLD. A scum player could theoretically stop our funding and cripple town power by selfhammering there.

is this true? someone told me even if we hammered it wouldn't matter till funding... someone lied to me?

yknow I'm not actually sure what happens if the treasurer doesn't set the budget before a hammer. I'm sure it's been discussed before. I would assume no one gets funded? anyway we should let the treasurer make funding decisions before hammering

[SleepyKrew]

speaking of which

GO GO LLD YOU CAN DO IT DOLLA DOLLA BILLZ

[UNOwen]

SleepyKrew do you think Ircher is scum?