Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

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ego

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hi ausuka!

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still catching up

enchant, you scum again?

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i havent read much and havent played a game with elsa in years but can confidently say i could see them fakeclaiming cop as either alignment

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information overloadddd

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enchant feels more in the forefront in this game than in the scum game i just played w them

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i was getting tmi from comus towards the end of D1 with the "StD will flip VT" stuff but other than that i like their energy a lot

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four years ago i'd probably be doubting this is ausuka's scum game and i wanna townread her for that but im trying to be cognizant of the fact it's been a while.

can anyone describe ausuka's scum meta to me these days? i remember her hating playing as scum

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i feel like we have too many PR claims

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ive read everything but i feel like i havent absorbed everything

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You forgot to paint self in green

ehhhh i dont think ive ever painted myself green when doing those

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Gera's posting today is hard town lmao

+1

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tuesday nights i teach a community college class after work but i'll try to phone post today when i get settled in

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oh but also higazer!

howdy!!

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i cant read elsa tbh

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compelling argument

VOTE: elsa

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i feel like we have too many PR claims

Why

was looking at geraintm's post and it felt like a bit much for a 13 player game but i remember either kawaii or enchant's claim was a joke? on my phone so hard to check

KawaiiKame - hider
ausuka - loud visionary { ive just had to read what this role does - it tells someone they were visited but not by who, is that right?? }
Elsa Jay - Cop and clear on Gimli
Enchant - bodyguard

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i'm voting elsa because ACAB

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Wait you still believe my claims?

right, it was enchant

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Hm ok I kind of see it? Especially if you assume Elsa is an actual cop

I mean I think hider isn't really an useful role but maybe some nrg people disagree with that

i dont believe elsa's cop claim tbh thats why im voting her

maybe the meta changed but i remember cops getting less and less common in normal games, and i feel like claiming cop is an easy way to delay an elim as scum

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can anyone describe ausuka's scum meta to me these days? i remember her hating playing as scum

I can't describe her meta but she's goooood at scum nowadays, I'll link you a game where she carried us to a win over multiple days

I still think she's town here tho, although if I run out of other slots to sort then she's prob where I'd first look at & reconsider

hmmm okay good to know

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i'll try to post 2nite after grading

i'm really lost this game tbh

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forgetting claims is a towntell imo (wrt gera)

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ausuka and comus is TvT

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jailkeep inno is a lot softer than cop inno, and jailkeep is less verifiable by ausuka's so elsa's claim change is bad. still happy with my vote there

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elsa and ausuka probably aren't scum together bc two scum claiming PRs this early on is very limiting for a scum team

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jailkeep inno is a lot softer than cop inno, and jailkeep is less verifiable by ausuka's so elsa's claim change is bad. still happy with my vote there

just to explain it better:

elsa went from "gimli is def town" to "gimli didn't kill last night" which reopens the possibility of a gimli elim for scum elsa so scum points there

assuming ausuka town, i could see elsa as a mafia rolestopper (forget if that's the right term?) or something along those lines that had to modify her claim in response to ausuka's claim and the nature of her role

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im still townreading too many people, this game is hard

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ausuka and comus is TvT

I feel like it is a common reaction to write off arguments with a lot of words as tvt. It is often correct but like calling people town is usually correct anyway. I think people townread volume too easily. Do you have any reason to townread comus beyond he posts a lot and/or seems like a VI?

Pedit: Vanilla cop is a very generous definition of modified cop, considering it is not a modifier and is a totally different role, but in fairness those roles could indeed coexist

wouldn't call comus a VI personally, i think they're just wrongly tunneling you but it happens

their stubbornness about you feels genuine, i feel like if they were scum pushing a miselim they would've given up a bit earlier and pushed an easier target. and their energy reads as not being afraid to be the center of attention, i feel like scum would be playing a lot more cautiously here. i had a weird paranoia thought that he might be scum trying to draw attention away from a teammate with his tunnel on you but i feel like if that was the case he wouldn't go about it so loudly

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fine w goin first in the mass claim

sorry i've been mentally dead lately

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oh whoops

im informed detective

n1 comus didnt kill
n2 kokichi didnt kill

my info is that every PR in the game has a modifier

will point out my crumb later

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thats why i scumread elsa (too much town power)

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information overloadddd

information is from the informed nature of my role; the excessive Ds is for detective

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be back later

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what did kawaii claim again??

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not weak hider??

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VOTE: kawaii

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I thought they had claimed a modifier lmao

my bad i should have jumped on this earlier

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@Skygazer

Whyy did you invest me?

How do feel about loud visionary/complex checker scum?


Aaaaaannddd........

Wait a minute.

Klick, you can actually be town here. Let's say I believe Sky.

Ausuka/Kawaii/Enchant?

Enchant isn't modified, probable goon who killed magical girl.

I need to think about this.

i just got got by a scum player that had the same kind of vibe as you and i townread it, just got a lil paranoid and figured if you were scum you might be a good candidate to make the kill since you were fairly townread

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I'm bothered that Skygazer didn't claim this yesterday but it's not implausible that she just didn't notice Kawaii didn't claim a Modifier, or wanted to wait on the info until more roles were out.

i remembered kawaii was a PR and thought that they had claimed a modifier; i think i got confused when i had initially skimmed and thought they said they were weak

also been rlly out of it lately tbh

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id still like to think ausuka is town mostly bc itd make me sad if she isn't

looking at the PRs i feel like one or both of klick/ausuka is prob town just based on setup stuff

but im like rlly behind on trying to read ppl so idk where to go from there

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Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

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ok so we elim kawaii

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so kawaii is scum and scum is either informed and fucked up or not informed and my role is designed as a sort of gotcha during claim time

leaning towards the latter bc that would explain the lack of town power i guess

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lol

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my thought was kawaii just oopsied and didnt check the scum thread until after posting

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ive seen really good scum players do much stupider things

one time i modded a game where flavor leaf posted an entire scum game plan into a PT with his town neighbor

sometimes brains just stop working

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ive seen really good scum players do much stupider things

Like fakeclaiming detective check on claimed vig?

who claimed vig??

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starting to think comus might be right and ausuka/klick is scum theater here

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ehhhhh actually idk if klick defends kawaii this hard here if they both scum but idk

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ive seen really good scum players do much stupider things

Like fakeclaiming detective check on claimed vig?

who claimed vig??

KOKICHI CLAIMED VIG

whoops

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i havent been reading very closesly if yall cant tell

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I suggest town hammers quick before I do an 180 and just vote Kawaii for pound ng scummy af.

VOTE: menalque

naked vote right after comus implies that menal is hammerable (at least that's how i took comus's post)

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kawaii is obvscum

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and maybe im reaching by assuming kawaii thought they were hammering menal but i think that clears menal when kawaii flips scum?

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me not playing optimally doesnt mean im scum

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also ugh comus might be scum

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ausuka i feel like my play here alone is enough to clear me for you, i love playing scum and would be much more on top of things if i were scum here

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ausuka i feel like my play here alone is enough to clear me for you, i love playing scum and would be much more on top of things if i were scum here

I should probably actually ask you about this - why is this? I was under the impression you were just like, busy and sort of out of it irl - I mean, I've had games before when I was like too ill to really participate much, but this sounds like it's something else

i am busy/out of it, but am usually good at BSing as scum when im like this; not so much as town. i generally take a lot of notes as scum and keep up with reading even when im busy bc most of the time its just making sure my info/progressions are straight, which is fairly easy/not as time intensive in conparison to actually sorting players

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Maybe I will have to search that '>.<' emoji to find a complete list of all the eiralox alts on the site

pedit: ok that's fair

I don't want to ask too much of you but if you have the time and are feeling ok, do you have any games you can link which demonstrate this

kind of tough to quantify (and all of my games were so long ago) but check my activity here: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=55&t=79480&user_select%5B%5D=31604

i posted multiple times almost every single day, kept on top of things, etc., whereas almost every single town game i have multiple periods of inactivity/lurkiness

my schedule back then used to be so hectic and i remember having a lot of burnt out days where my brain was too mush to do town stuff but still functional for scum stuff

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i dont have any recent scum games obviously but compare my activity and on-topness there to my first game back: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=90590&user_select%5B%5D=31604

when i cant focus as town i just dont know how to post (almost got elimmed and barely fought it bc of a headache), when i couldnt focus as scum i would just stick to my notes and reiterate my thoughts

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generally feeling better tho ty for the concern

just need to catch up on sleep now

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I can't really parse out kawa's posting in this game, he is definitely not anywhere near as towny as he was in death note but I think his detachment might be NAI? and idk what to make of his posting. I do feel like at least his 2x claim felt real enough.

bruh i rlly dont see how his 2x thing could be anything but a scum panic moment

i dont see how he could confidently answer "no" to the modifier question if he actually was a 2-shot hider? x-shot is so obviously a modifier in my eyes and i think if anyone were asked that question they wouldnt just immediately say no considering he's stated he knew he was 2-shot this entire time. like if i were actually a 2-shot hider and everyone was pressing me if i had a modifier i'd stop and think it over rather than just straight up saying "no"

also claiming hider as town just doesnt make sense to me; if he were town he's telling scum "hey dont target me" when optimal play would be to try and draw the NK by alluding to a different PR or something

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im takin some time off work this week so hopefully thatll help with the burnout

was doing an open house thing at the uni i work at all day today

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no worries about calling me out @ ausuka, am aware my activity has been terrible

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Out of those five my first instinct is to remove Kawaii from consideration

I don't really like Sky's recent engagement with Ausuka
I think Sky would know better than to say 'I'd be more motivated if I were scum' because like Ausuka said I thought Sky was just, like, busy

i dont think those too things are mutually exclusive

like i said, playing scum comes more naturally to me bc its easier on my brain and im not second guessing my reads all the time

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in my eyes kawaii's claim and subsequent adjustment makes a lot less sense than me investigating a cummy player i didn't realize claimed vig

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unfortunate typo

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i think scum is kawaii with some combination of gera/comus/enchant/klick

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maybe swap klick for gimli actually bc i feel like scum would be bussing/distancing from kawaii here (what gimli is doing) rather than hard defending like klick

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i still think kawaii thought they were hammering menal so im clearing menal on association

i also feel like menal is a scum-driven counterwagon

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im just realizing im probably dead 2nite anyways bc i can still get a guilty and if enchant is a town doc theyre prob not protecting me based on their read

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wish other ppl were on more when i have time/energy to post

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ok im down

who are u scumreading rn besides menal

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wait i just saw ur join date

for some reason ur name was familiar and i thought uve been here longer

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ufghhhh ok if uve only been here a month i could see u maybe making that mistake as town actually

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what happened was i broke my linux install and have been using my phone exclusively for a bit now so i don't see all the details under avatars... someone mentioned your meta being different so i decided to dig into your games and i saw ur join date when i clicked on your profile x_x

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i think mechanically one of enchant/comus has to be scum bc two investigatives and a doctor would be way townsided

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Sky did not wait for menalque to claim before claiming, this and many other things scream their aligned status.

i mean i assumed scum probably had the same info bc my role would be so stupid/somewhat broked if it wasn't

it wasn't until the kawaii stuff happened that i had the thought that maybe scum didn't have the info

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i mean i assumed scum probably had the same info bc my role would be so stupid/somewhat broked if it wasn't

and given this plus the fact that if scum were informed then kawaii wouldn't have played that the way he did i can see where the people townreading kawaii are coming from now

UNVOTE:

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i wouldn't discount comus on that, it seems like a personality thing

in my last game i townread both scum bc i thought both (not you enchant, your predecessor) based on their posting style/hyperactivity/etc were obvtown lol

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by "that" i mean this

'm inclined to believe Comus is town inspite of how erratic the play is, like, I haven't seen scum play like this in any game, could Comus be scum? Yes. Is it likely? No, the play is way too chaotic/genuine, if Comus is scum gg

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speaking of sorry for hyperposting my adhd is running rampant tonight

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im so lost now sighs

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my feel is sky is trying to pocket kawaii(lol)?

?? they opened the convo with "i think ur town," so no?

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i mean I can be more helpful here and quote all the posts that alerted me bout mena/sky, fmpov it's pretty obvious but by now i get why people aren't gonna go 'wow yeah you know what comus is just plain right'. I'm not gonna do that. I'm sorta over this.

"it's so obvious and i have evidence to back it up but i'm not going to show the evidence"

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comus if ur town here then i think ur being antitown

and sadly between the PRs i think enchant is more likely to be scum over you

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ya no, informed is a modifier and even if it wasn't "combined" is a modifier

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VOTE: enchant

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"combined" is a modifier

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wiki says it isnt a modifier but two roles combined counts as a modifier

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anyways kawaii is town and i dont rlly wanna go for menal today either so

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actually per the wiki: Sometimes a role such as Bulletproof is used as though it were a modifier; these are documented in the main role category.

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thats such a bad attempt at a "gotcha"

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _modifiers

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whoops wrong page

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _modifiers

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no but i see: Sometimes a role such as Bulletproof is used as though it were a modifier; these are documented in the main role category.

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and ausuka is a normal reviewer?? dont u think she would've called me out by now lol

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okay he's literally the normal list mod

@implosion: is informed considered a modifier when stacked onto another role?

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bc i know my role has to count as modified but i wasn't mechanically sure how that would work??

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am tilted actually so i'll be back later

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clearly what i meant there was "between the PR claims"

i cant with this game ill be back after i get some coffee and food in me

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helloo i wanna catch up before any hammers

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ill hammer menal to avoid a no-elim if i have to ig

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i love when comus is like "aight im out" and immediately posts a minute later

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ill catch up on my lunch

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paranoia thought: comus is scum with menal and is stalling for a no-elim

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actually that doesnt make much sense

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i rlly just wanna go enchant today but we dont have time so

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comus' caginess to claim makes no sense to me compared to his claim

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ill be on my phone @ work and will be around for deadline

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gera is actually in my scum pool esp after i started townreading kawaii

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i think menal's scum equity went up since kawaii is prob town too but i rlly wanna elim enchant here

comus claim has me second guessing a lil bit but eh

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second guessing who is scum between comus/enchant

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do u think their caginess to claim makes sense w their claim? thats the thing that's throwing me

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ig doctor + hider are kind of at odds setup wise too

did enchant claim before or after kokichi flipped VT??

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went back and reread that and another thing that's bothering me i just noticed: why would enchant out there with a fakeclaim as scum to save a kokichi miselim?

but idk their claim would have made a lot more sense than it does now if kokichi were actually vig, mayb they were just hoping for towncred from it

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this game is hard sighs

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i'd rather vote mena than gera and i think a flash wagon would just wind up with a no-elim here, there aren't enough ppl on

also ive always wanted to lolhammer so

VOTE: menalque

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it didnt give me the preview so i missed the two extra gera votes

L

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it didnt give me the preview so i missed the two extra gera votes

L

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i would not have hammered their if i thought gera was actually viable before deadline for the record

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ngl thats hilarious

if menal is actually vt sorry for losing the game yall

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well hopefully menal just flips scum here

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oh also gimli hasnt killed

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maybe implo messed up?

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well if i was RBd id get no result

unless gimli is scum trying to find a rlly roundabout way to miselim me

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cant rlly think of any other ways that would explain what happened but i know im town

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i mean its definitely spelled out that its role invest and i doubt he'd make that kind of mistake but i guess he can just chime in if there are any corrections

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gimli is just scum here unless implo messed up anyone can think of a reason that my action wouldnt be seen by gimli

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Sky I want to see you take some stances today
Do some solving, try to get at least one strong scumread and help us see it if you can
I might be naive but I think despite how yesterday ended you do have some town equity but I'm going to need more from you if I'm going to act on that

ya i will (even tho after the pedit thing and gimli thing i think there's a 99% chance i'm just miselimmed at some point no matter what)

[Skygazer]

gimli is just scum here unless implo messed up anyone can think of a reason that my action wouldnt be seen by gimli

I'm confused, expand?

i visited gimli but gimli was apparently visited by ausuka and didnt get my action type

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ive had trouble second-guessing a lot of my reads too much to take hard stances this game but i can pretend im confident ig

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I'm in favour of flipping Gera today fwiw, at least atm

Pedit: I got comus' type, I even thought it would clear you until enchant corrected me

Not sure how you can think I'm lying but okay

ya i mean u would have to be trying to frame me in a really roundabout way. still trying to think of other causes for the fuckiness

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not lolcatting, was trying to clear myself ;-;

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drunk watching tv w my roommate by the way

but watch out for the drunk posting 2nite

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implo confirmed over pm that there were no mistakes wrt night actiosn

gonna do a quick oneover on the normal roles before i vote gimli just in case

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is anyone acfually on this late or am i just gonna be talking to myself

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anyways i had a 6 pack and im a lightweight these days so buckle up

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srry got distracted

roles:

explicitly normal for all:

Alien, Babysitter, Bodyguard, Checker, Commuter, Sane Cop, Detective, Doctor, Enabler, Encryptor, Finder, Follower, Fruit Vendor, Gunsmith, Hider, Inspector, Jack-of-all-trades, Jailkeeper, Motion Detector, Mailman (may be named "Messenger"), Neapolitan, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Psychologist, PT Cop, Reporter, Roleblocker, Role Cop, Rolestopper, Role Watcher, Security Guard, Shield, Tracker, Traffic Analyst, Universal Backup, Vanilla Cop, Visionary, Visitor, Voyeur, Watcher

normal for town:

Vanilla Townie, Friendly Neighbor, Innocent Child, Mason, Miller, Vigilante, Vengeful, any roles listed as "for any alignment"

normal for scum:

Mafia Goon, Strongman (may be named "Unstoppable"), Traitor, any roles listed as "for any alignment"

modifiers

:
Activated, Announcing, Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, Combined, Complex, Compulsive, Disloyal, Indecisive, Informed, Lazy, Loud, Loyal, Macho, Multitasking, Neighbor, Ninja, Non-Consecutive Night, Personal, Roaming, Simple, Weak, X-Shot, any modifier restricting to a specific set of nights (e.g. Even/Odd Night, Night Specific, Novice)

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oh if anyone cares i got firefox working again on my gentoo install

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alien - no (i'd get no result)
babysitter / bodyguard / checker / commuter / cop / detective / enabler / encryptor / finder / follower / fruit vendor / gunsmith / hider / inspector / joat / jailkeeper / motion detector / mailman are all no

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neapolitan / neighbor / neighborizer / psychologist / pt cop / reporter - no
roleblock - no, i'd get no result

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role cop - no
rolestopper - no, i'd get no result
role watcher / security guard / shield / tracker / traffic anylst / universal backup / vanilla cop - no
bisonary / visitor / voyeur / watcher - no

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looking at the roles to see if there's any mechanical way gimli could be town before i vote

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skipping roles that are only town roles bc they would out and a quick oneover looks like none of them would do anything nyways

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*they would out as having done something that messed up gimli's thing

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goon / strongman / traitor - all no

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ima skip listing all of the modifiers again but none of them would explain it

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oh shit that's what ninja does???? my bad gimli is town

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oh shit that's what ninja does???? my bad gimli is town

jk

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VOTE: gimli

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im gonna smoke and figure out if i wanna case gimli or look for his partners

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if scum have a roleblocker then i could see enchant town here btw

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balance wise

and idk i could be wrong but i dont see scum-enchant confidently exclaiming they protected comus when itd be easier to just claim u protected someone else

[Skygazer]

eh idk maybe enchant is scum and didnt care to try and explain why they targetted someone other than gimli and figured i was an easy miselim today and it didnt matter

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bruh i wouldve 100% be up to date enough to know kawaii was a vig if i were scum

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kokichi

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but speaking of kawaii they did just disappear after the pressure was off them

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and im honestly sus of klick not 100% scumreading me here after the pedit thing

like it feels buddy buddy and tmi

i thought i'd be quickelimmed today and i cant say i can see why someone would townread me here lol

[Skygazer]

bruh i wouldve 100% be up to date enough to know kawaii was a vig if i were scum

You still could fake it though

ig i could and ive feigned stupidity in the past effectivelt as scum but eh

i wouldnt do it in a way that would draw more heat on me

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Nah cause it says if you performed a kill, so that's action?

And watcher is... Also action IG? So I can't discern... It didn't say I was targeted twice anyway

this feels v fake to me like they're hamming it up and didnt wanna be the one to point out that their result made me scum and wanted to let someone else arrive at that conclusion

enchant's post spelled it out rlly clrealy so i dont see how they double down there naturally

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eh im not rlly gonna case rn bc i know theyre scum

probably better off for me to look for associatives

[Skygazer]

*case gimli rn

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2 scum in here:

KawaiiKame
geraintm
Enchant
Ausuka
Klick

[Skygazer]

first a weed break

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hi kawaii i see u online what r ur thoughts

[Skygazer]

enchants interactions with gimli point towards town enchant

one of their first posts was about them bussing each other and idk enchant real well but as much of a shittposter i am i would never be that brazen w a scum buddy

and their vote on them doesnt rlly feel like bussing to me

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like a lot of the gimli/enchant feel like not partners to me

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either ausuka bussed the shit out of gimli or ausuka is town

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like ausuka was giving out pre-flip associatives and shit

i don't see them as bussing that hard if they were town, iirc they were generally more wishy-washy with partners than that

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kawaii had that hider claim change thing

they did the resigned town AtE thing going on after it happened that ive utilized a lot in the past

they basically disappeared after the pressure lifted up

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kawaii threw shade at the beginning at gimli in the beginning but then hard townread them

ugh i think i townread that tho

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gera pushed gimli hard and then gave up when elsa claimed a cop inno on them (i don't remember that at all??)

but dropped trying to read gimli after gimli was "cleared," even after gimli died

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klick has called gimli hard town multiple times and while i was a lil sus of them TRing me here i feel like that's p brazen as partners

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but that's 4 townish reads and 1 scummish read in a pool thats 2/5 scum aaaaaaa

[Skygazer]

im too crossfaded and this game is hard im going to come back sober

taking the day off tomorrow so thisll have a bit more of my attention

[Skygazer]

(if im not hungover)

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klick who do u think is 3rd scum with a gimli/enchant team

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my hangover is finally starting to subside a bit

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oh cool klick is conftown for not hammering

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what are the odds gera/gimli/enchant are scum together? not sure if all 3 vote me there as a scum team?

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scum are averse to voting together

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this is elo, sky

and??

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bleh gimli's talk about partners is v wifomy

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he essentially just said "actually if i was scum with gera thats exactly what we'd do" and thats breaking my brain

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at this point either enchant is scum or scum rlly dont know how to coordinate a quickhammer

[Skygazer]

klick town

gimli scum
enchant scum

last scum in gera/kawaii/ausuka

[Skygazer]

ausuka said she probably votes me

same with gera

kawaii is MIA again

[Skygazer]

question to those three: is there a world in which you dont vote me here?

[Skygazer]

ausuka is prob town here

im waffling between gera and kawaii

[Skygazer]

klick in that pool of ausuka/gera/kawaii who do u think is most likely for third scum?

gimli posted something along the lines of "if i were scum my team would all vote you" and i cant figure out if that statement was meant to falsely implicate gera or distance from gera

[Skygazer]

Just reminded that sky faked result on Kokichi claimed vig, claim of which made twice, not only on first day "jokingly" but on end of second day as well.

yes im not good at this game keep rubbing it in

[Skygazer]

i guess if ausuka's scum game is p good now like others said it might also be possible she coached gimli into framing me?

[Skygazer]

i think comus dying probably means scum has a PR that claimed VT or a goon that claimed PR

ausuka doesnt fit that bc her role is confirmed
gera/gimli are both VT claims
kawaii is hider claim
enchant is doc claim

[Skygazer]

enchant could be fakeclaiming as goon and needed comus gone bc of that? the "whoops i tried to protect him" is v convenient

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gera if ur town we lose now

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You still insist that you didn't read LAST PAGES of day?

i mean clearly. i just knew kokichi got a lot of suspicion so i wanted to check them

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kawaii is online and would probably hammer if they were scum

[Skygazer]

ausuka is probably voting me regardless so is it even worth sinking more effort in