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Lady Lambdadelta
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Post Post #575 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:54 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 573, Black wrote: I do not necessarily disagree that you are the best doc option, it just pings me when people ask for protection so bluntly
Why.

Why does it ping you?

You can say it bothers and pings you all day, I need specifics.
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Post Post #576 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:55 pm

Post by Frogs »

I don't know how you can say that me echoing "LLD needs to be alive to see the next day phase" is a wolf indicative statement
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Post Post #577 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:59 pm

Post by Wavelength »

I think that both town and scum are both fairly incentivized towards killing Hebi at this point on the basis of "not my faction"

It is likely nai for basically everyone who has said we kill hebi since hebi has claimed 3rd party.

People considering not killing hebi might be interesting, but I have not really looked at it all that closely
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Post Post #578 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:00 pm

Post by KawaiiKame »

In post 577, Wavelength wrote: People considering not killing hebi might be interesting, but I have not really looked at it all that closely
I'm considering not killing hebi for character reasons, though killing hebi is pro-town
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Post Post #579 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:15 pm

Post by hebichan »

In post 578, KawaiiKame wrote:
In post 577, Wavelength wrote: People considering not killing hebi might be interesting, but I have not really looked at it all that closely
I'm considering not killing hebi for character reasons, though killing hebi is pro-town
I would appreciate it if no other reasons than I want more qts to talk in.
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Post Post #580 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:16 pm

Post by KawaiiKame »

In post 579, hebichan wrote:
In post 578, KawaiiKame wrote:
In post 577, Wavelength wrote: People considering not killing hebi might be interesting, but I have not really looked at it all that closely
I'm considering not killing hebi for character reasons, though killing hebi is pro-town
I would appreciate it if no other reasons than I want more qts to talk in.
I will leave you alive then
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Post Post #581 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:17 pm

Post by xyzzy »

In post 546, GreyICE wrote: So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi


I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-
It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this


The last one should be the only one that matters.
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.
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Post Post #582 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:23 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 581, xyzzy wrote:
In post 546, GreyICE wrote: So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi


I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-
It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this


The last one should be the only one that matters.
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.
Wanna claim?
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.

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click here
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If you wish to
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, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze
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Post Post #583 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:24 pm

Post by KawaiiKame »

In post 581, xyzzy wrote:
In post 546, GreyICE wrote: So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi


I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-
It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this


The last one should be the only one that matters.
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.
Holy Hell you right, voting someone else does give the most info in the flip to solve the game, as said b4 voting hebi is nai so we get 0 info in eliminating hebi
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Post Post #584 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:27 pm

Post by xyzzy »

In post 551, Aureal wrote:
In post 534, xyzzy wrote: fwiw, in response to GreyICE a post or two later, if someone asked me to coordinate RVS like that as scum, I'd probably be like "sure, whatever, let's do it," but I would never originate a plan like that on my own
Uhhhhhhh. That post. I came back here to muse about what Grey's "I'm probably a miller" claim meant in context of there being a 3P which LLD suspects he belongs to. And now you remind us of this post where he comments about the borg. My head is spinning.
tbh I don't make anything of that post. I can definitely imagine someone just assuming the scum in this game are borg-flavored without any basis for that assumption other than it being an obvious idea.
for the record, I wasn't dodging the question so much as being dismissive of it. that being said, to me the function of RVS is to create tension that can be shaped into reads. voting in a way that creates tension pushes the game in the direction of having things actually happen. jumping on the hebichan wagon turns that wagon into a Thing The Game Is About, which in turn lets people generate reads.
So you just grab a random wagon, try to drive it up really high really fast, and hope nothing bad happens? Is this your normal playstyle?
it's been three years since the last time I played, so I'm not sure I have a normal playstyle, but it's at least where I'm at right now.
don't love this! reads very youth pastor trying to be cool with the teens in a scummy way

Hey now! Scumread me if you want, but I draw the line at calling me a "youth pastor"! :evil:
fair enough!
I don't care for the "that was pocketing?" comment. on the one hand I'd be willing to believe that Aureal genuinely isn't sure whether daytalk is a default thing or how PTs work. on the other hand I still get such bad vibes from 359, and this doesn't really mitigate those.

Is it on the site somewhere that it's a default thing??? I'm not even sure where to look for that! It seems extremely common but my experience could be misdirecting me. Many games explicitly state that mafia can communicate at all times- it's required to be stated for Normal games according to the Encryptor wiki page, and I've only played Normals and Opens.

Why are we even arguing about this??
my point was that you had the tone of someone who
does
know how PTs work because you're scum in this game, and in lying about it, you oversold it.
changed my mind from 406. this is town LLD
Are you saying that because you think she's right or wrong or just the way she says it?
the latter.

p-edit:
In post 582, Lady Lambdadelta wrote: Wanna claim?
no???
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Post Post #585 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:27 pm

Post by Aureal »

In post 582, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
In post 581, xyzzy wrote:
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.
Wanna claim?

Is that a threat to wagon xyzzy or another attempt to pin 3P factional membership to someone?
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Post Post #586 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:37 pm

Post by Aureal »

In post 584, xyzzy wrote: tbh I don't make anything of that post. I can definitely imagine someone just assuming the scum in this game are borg-flavored without any basis for that assumption other than it being an obvious idea.
That would mean they didn't pay much attention at all to the game design, which made it pretty clear that role flavor was assigned then alignment randomized. So we could have a scum team of the most heroic good guys ever.

Are you saying that because you think she's right or wrong or just the way she says it?
the latter.

Are you familiar with her and meta-reading that?



My scumreads are turning into townreads. *ponder*

VOTE: Porkens
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Post Post #587 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:41 pm

Post by fferyllt »

VC 1.7


Image


hebichan (4): Porkens, Wavelength, Black, GreyICE
Auriel (2): xyzzy, hebichan
xyzzy (1): PenguinPower
Black (1): Rogue
KawaiiKame (1): Kokichi Oma
Porkens (1): Aureal


Not Voting (3):
KawaiiKame, Lady Lambdadelta, Frogs


With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to eliminate

Deadline: April 2, Midnight Eastern Time

countdown: (expired on 2023-04-01 21:00:00)


Mod Notes
  • If you see vote count errors, please let me know.
  • Wavelength is V/LA through March 25.
  • Black is V/LA on weekends.
  • :]

Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

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Post Post #588 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:35 pm

Post by GreyICE »

In post 581, xyzzy wrote:
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.
I want to just point at this and say "holy FUCK is xyzzy obvious scum" but to explain why this is pure horseshit, here we go:

First, hebi is very probably mafia. So
we have to eliminate her eventually
. Period. The Town WILL be eliminating her, so we will always be spending an elimination. Day 1 eliminations are the lowest information ones, not the highest one - using them on a probably mafia slot that is definitely not town is a great use.

Then there's the night phase. Yes, it exists. Hebi could have any role - rolecop, roleblocker, vanillizer, etc. Her role will not help the town. Her role will probably hurt the town. By eliminating her here, we give the
mafia
less information - they see no more claims, learn no more about who has what powers. And the mafia could very well be down a power role.

The information xyzzy loses is that he loses whatever information Hebi's power role might give his team, and he loses the information about any more claims from the day phase.
In post 583, KawaiiKame wrote:Holy Hell you right, voting someone else does give the most info in the flip to solve the game, as said b4 voting hebi is nai so we get 0 info in eliminating hebi
So when do we eliminate her? Day 2? Day 3? Day 4?

Make your case on why those are a better day to get a "NAI elimination". Because they're not.
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Post Post #589 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:42 pm

Post by GreyICE »

Also. Do you have any idea how many scum fakeclaim third party?

You not only excuse your non-town play, now you can play non-town for the rest of the game. And you'll never be nightkilled, fancy that!

The only argument against that that xyzzy can make is "well if you claim third party town will just eliminate you" which is pretty bogus when
he's arguing not to eliminate her
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Post Post #590 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:44 pm

Post by Frogs »

tbh if this is mafia claiming third party it will have been the 2nd time I've encountered it
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Post Post #591 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:44 pm

Post by GreyICE »

In post 585, Aureal wrote:
Is that a threat to wagon xyzzy or another attempt to pin 3P factional membership to someone?
Oh day 2 we are wagonning the FUCK out of xyzzy.
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Post Post #592 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:45 pm

Post by Frogs »

but ya
very likely it is just mafia I mean
wincon just sounds like mafia to me

gotta vote it out anyways to identify the truth
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Post Post #593 (ISO) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:48 pm

Post by Frogs »

VOTE: hebi
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Post Post #594 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:09 am

Post by xyzzy »

I woke up 5 minutes ago and will respond to your post more coherently later on today, but GreyICE, I already gave a polite "hey remember that my pronouns are they/them" in response to you misgendering me. I sincerely hope I do not have to bring it up a third time.
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Post Post #595 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:22 am

Post by Kokichi Oma »

Wow I missed a lot. So hebi is claiming 3rd party. Sounds a bit sus
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #596 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:23 am

Post by Kokichi Oma »

VOTE: Hebi

Sorry Hebi, I wanted to play with you longer but looks like you must go back to your pokeball for now.

Let's vote out the Snivy!

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How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #597 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:23 am

Post by Kokichi Oma »

E-1 someone hammer
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #598 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:27 am

Post by Black »

In post 595, Kokichi Oma wrote: Wow I missed a lot. So hebi is claiming 3rd party. Sounds a bit sus
Yeah and it seems like a lot of people are taking the claim at face value. I have a feeling there is something hebi is omitting but she has been pretty open and willing to answer questions about it so idk
I scumread Alianna.

ALL HAIL THE SCUM QUEEN!
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Post Post #599 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:27 am

Post by Black »

In post 596, Kokichi Oma wrote: Let's vote out the Snivy!
Grass types lol
I scumread Alianna.

ALL HAIL THE SCUM QUEEN!
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