Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712

[Wall-E]

/comfrin

/confrim

/fromcin

[Wall-E]

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

[Wall-E]

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

Actually, I give him slight town points for that. I don't see particular motivation as scum to give a shit about kill MO's.

yeah

post 19 nonrandom vote - because i'm the shiznigackle

wut wikka obama it's your birthday -day birth-wikka-day (unf unf unf baby yeah)

You honestly do not see a reason?

[Wall-E]

mod: please delete above and this post

Wait, what? I don't think so, buster!

[Wall-E]

So, like that Korts guy said, hp actually deserves slight pro-town points for that. Scum don't have any particular motivation to ask that question or at all any question relating MO's.

I have to disagree. I can't articulate it, but if I were, for example, the SK, I'd want to know if my kills would have a distinctive flavor, and to facilitate distancing myself, or perhaps out of a guilty conscience, or even because the issue is important to his role, I feel hp [leaves] is a good choice for the moment.

[Wall-E]

lol wups that sucks

[Wall-E]

grunt

[Wall-E]

I can't argue with that logic. I obviously didn't fully comprehend something, but it's fixed now. I'll keep the vote on.

[Wall-E]

Vote: Tenchi

Let's see what this does.

[Wall-E]

Can you give me a reason to change my vote? I'm simply unconvinced that what you're doing isn't a huge clusterfuck distraction.

[Wall-E]

Happy birthday!

I'm a huge Tenchi Muyo fan!

Confirm vote: Tenchi

[Wall-E]

He said, "Nobody is going to defend me except myself". If he was mason, there'd probably someone directly or indirectly helping him, and he probably would have avoided such a comment and left that up in the air. Ideally, even if he's vanilla he would have a avoided such a comment and left it up in the air.

I don't think it's untownie to point out the remark. It is tangibly valuable info, that if Tenchi is mislynch he's not mason mislynch. And I really doubt I've helped the scum figure out who's mason too much. It's not like a reverse-psychoanalyzed and quadratic pattern of his postings to deduce that he might not be mason, and released my findings. He said, in front of town, scum and all, "Nobody is going to defend me except myself".

So the rest of us are clearer, are you claiming mason, pops?

[Wall-E]

No one seems to have actually answered hp's question yet, which I find strange. Judging from the given role PMs I'd say we are told the method (The Werewolves PM says eaten while the Mafia's says killed)

I think it'd be very courageous of mafia if they stepped up and said "Yes it does; it's in my role PM"

Any reason you c/p'ed only the wolf pm?

This post of yours is subtly psychologically damning, in my eyes, hp. It's worded in such a way as to strongly implant an image of a mafia publically answering this question by posting his role PM (through the use of ridiculous imagery), then immediately slap the reader with Peter?'s name, connecting them in an equation with no actual correlation between the two realities (or correlation that is easily proven too WIFOMey to pursue).

Just my current thoughts.

[Wall-E]

The problem may be that I, too, thought the werewolf PM most strongly answered the question. Of course there will be death flavor. Otherwise they'd be Mafia A and Mafia B. Werewolves are strictly a third-or-even-fourth branch of kill flavor, or sometimes story flavor, but that is clearly not the case or intent of this setup.

[Wall-E]

"[popsofctown is] ready to leave his "masonism" "up in the air" but is ready to speculate on [Tenchi's]."

This is the most significant thing said in two pages, with the possible exception of:

"Soveliss, why would scum say that Tenchi is not a mason? (Warning. This question is only for Soveliss. If you want to reply, you may do so after Soveliss has answered)"

I still think pops essentially softclaimed mason.

[Wall-E]

Only a mason can confirm a townie non-mason. That or a rolecop. Why else say, "X is not likely a mason?" How the hell does he know?

[Wall-E]

Only a mason can confirm a townie non-mason. That or a rolecop. Why else say, "X is not likely a mason?" How the hell does he know?

That is a very slippery foundation. Mafia have reason to try and draw a mason claim, and a townie who isn't clear on theory may also have a reason to want to out confirmed roles.

Also, wasn't I very clear about speculating on who is mason or not? It goes to you, Wall-E, as much as it goes to pops. DO NOT. DO. IT. AGAIN.

I don't really understand what you're all saying here, but I'm willing to completely drop it if explaining what is going on to me will somehow jeopardize the town. Sorry if I faux pas, not meaning disrespect, kiss.

[Wall-E]

An idea: Let's lynch the next person who says the M***** word.

I like you kind of approach here. I also think the same thing that you do.

Pos is kinda bothering me as he's constantly "complaining" about "double standards".

Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?

Is English your second language?

[Wall-E]

Some things I spotted on a read:

mod: please delete above and this post

Wait, what? I don't think so, buster!

Korts is not even listed in this game.

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PLAYING NEED TO STOP POSTING HERE - IT MAKES READTHROUGHS CONFUSING! THAT MEANS FARSIDE TOO!! OMGWTFSPLOSION!!!










I'm seeing zazie and pops as townies at each other's throats, atm. I find it simultaneously entertaining and a good engine for the scumhunt. I find myself agreeing with Doc and pops often in the thread.

I'm curious how HP will reply to 196 and 197.

sekinj: In your opinion, has pops increased his "excessive wifoming"?

What the mod is saying is that we will find out if the mafia and werewolf kills show up the same.
If they are revealed, I think it could help he town but not until the final days where a pattern could be deduced. Of course this is only my opinion.

Pops seems to like his WIFOM, pick the side you feel is more likely but keep your mind open.

Tenchi is suspicious but lets not over-focus on him. Many people here haven't posted much of substance yet, so their is no need to rush. (not that anyone was rushing , I am just suggesting we don't)

Over-focus? Do you have another suggestion for us to focus on? I think it's a bit silly to just suggest a cease-fire without offering an alternate target. (requisite IGMEOY)

[Wall-E]

@Pops: "You said you would "STFU". That is what you said you would do. That sounded to me to be "not posting". If everyone else in this thread will tell me that "STFU" does not mean "not posting", then I will self-vote. Seriously. It's not what i wanted to see. It's there in plain language.

If that's all you've got on pops you're stretching way too much for my taste.

[Wall-E]

Tenchi: Where did I discuss M word after saying I'd drop it?

[Wall-E]

Pops made a comment on me being a mason. I feel its like scum group A sending a message to scum group B. For what purpose, I don't know. But I feel that it's VERY NOT TOWNIE to expose who is mason and who isn't.

Actually he said.

By the by, i notice he's implied he's not mason..... best worst-case scenario..

I believe he is saying you are not mason.

*****SPACE AND TIME*****

UNVOTE

Vote Pops

After going back rereading Pops comments I am finding him more suspicious now than Tenchi. Pops constant unvoting and revoting of Tenchi caught my eye as awkward. By voting for hime once you tell us your suspicions. The only reason I can think you keep doing it, is to try and remind us it's Tenchi we are supposed to be voting.

Another thing slightly off is Pops statement about Tenchi not being a Mason. If you think he might not be the mason you should keep that to yourself. There is no reason to narrow down possible choices for mason unless you are mafia trying to pick them off.

This is moderately suspicious. Why didn't you comment on my mason exposure in the earlier post? You clarify, but don't comment on it. I'm suspicious of people who are delayed to give their own opinion.

Upon a re-read, it sounds like you're mad at someone for convincing themselves to attack you. That's pretty unforgiving, especially since I, too, have a hard time deciding sometimes who is the big bad scum. I may build a case for a page and then finally vote. It's the logical progression of thought: It's not like I base an entire case on one post someone makes and go, "AHA! Gotcha!"

If pops is arguing it's possible soveliss is testing the water, I'd say he could be right, but IT'S A GOOD POINT THAT SOVELISS MADE! It doesn't matter if it's accurate or whatever, because soveliss said "seems awkward to me," meaning it's an opinion, one which I found myself agreeing with upon review of pops' posts. I like it when players share their opinion. Let's not punish soveliss unjustifiably for what is essentially a legitimate contribution. Smells omgusy, this callout.

[Wall-E]

lol best response ever

peter? needs to respond to several things said about him

where the f*%#$ is ThAdmiral

[Wall-E]

you guys guess what

thadmiral is the mod

i'm an idiot

[Wall-E]

i'm eagerly awaiting blueheaven's return, as well as soveliss's content.

[Wall-E]

Tenchi: Where did I discuss M word after saying I'd drop it?

I didn't need YOU to say it. It was pretty obvious on Page 6-7 that doing so is NOT helpful, yet you still did it.

What?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1376082
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1376788
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1376983
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1378226

I could post a bunch of links with no explaination of why they are relevant too. I'm not going to, because I'm awesome. Why are those links important for me to read?

Pops was persecuted for doing it once, why do it again?
(I even skipped some posts which quoted the information on those posts)

Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum.

Bigger FoS: Wall-E

for trying to weasel your way out of it.

You did it. Admit that you did something wrong and possibly scummy. And admit it that it does deserve suspicion at least.

What did I DO? I feel like I want to cry! All I've heard is, "Don't do that." "Why did you do that?" "You are scum for doing that!"

WTF?!?

WILL THIS POST GET ME AN EVEN BIGGER FOS?!

I HOPE NOT!!

[Wall-E]

Where did I discuss the M word after saying I'd drop it? Can you quote me?

[Wall-E]

Please, explain this. Especially the second sentence.

It was sarcastic.

[Wall-E]

My best lead right now is Budja. His call for a "cease-fire" without offering alternate targets still bothers me. I could be convinced to vote for pops or ZazieR if one of them does something scummy worth noting and can't explain it, so I'm waiting on further debate between those two before picking a more serious target.

The debate between them is healthy, but atm I'm getting a town read off pops and a lesser town read off Z.

I missed this question earlier:

@ wall-e: you seem to want to defend pops? why is that?

It was less that I was defending him and more that I was calling attention to specific things he's said that I feel are good for us all to notice.

I'm suspicious of hp leaves and Tenchi: Hp for shoddy, slop plays that make him look like a newb who cares little about the game, and Tenchi for post 211 where he calls someone scum with zero explaination as well as the reasons given for his bandwagon earlier. That lynch died with a whimper which tells me there might have been some merit to it.

Vote: Budja

[Wall-E]

I'd like to hear from blueheaven, Peter? and Tenchi.

[Wall-E]

Since when do you post Xtoxm-style?

Since discussion stalled, pretty much, partly due to lurkers and party, well, due to lurkers. Without their differential there's nothing new to go on. So, pushing a wagon is the only way to go.

So, you gonna vote pops or what? Now that Budja's getting replaced, your vote serves no purpose. And that goes to Wall-E, too. Voting people on the verge of being replaced is a cop-out.

I... I what? HE ASKED TO BE REPLACED AFTER I VOTED FOR HIM!!

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[Wall-E]

I'd agree to a Tenchi lynch, but would prefer Budja, so if a strong wagon forms on Tenchi again I'll hop onboard.

[Wall-E]

On unvoting and revoting: If it was all done in the same post, there's no difference between that and a confirmation vote, imo, but if the unvote was in a different post as the revote, there is a huge difference between that and a confirm vote, imo.

[Wall-E]

I disapprove of this lynch, but can't say why because it's verboten (apparently).

vote count

popsofctown (7): peter?, soveliss, doc, tenchi, hp[leaves], sekinj, seraphim
budja (2): zazier, wall-e
tenchi (1): popsofctown
soveliss (1): budja

not voting: blueheaven

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch, so THAT'S A LYNCH!

[Wall-E]

I doubt Peter? will come back to unvote, or did you mean his replacement?

Where is blueheaven?[/b]

Unvote: Vote: blueheaven

I'll unvote when bh posts to my satisfaction.

[Wall-E]

What's the point of a claim if you're planning to hammer regardless? Faced with that choice, I'd tell you to eat me. Also, if you have something to say about me, say it. What's the point in waiting?

[Wall-E]

FISHING FOR WHAT?

I WAS POINTING OUT A LOGICAL FLAW YOU MADE!

STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO SAY WHATEVER ABOUT ME.

[Wall-E]

I was assuming the scum have to outnumber the other remaining players, including the other scum team, so it would have to be X > or = Y, where X is the number of teamed scum and Y is the total players minus X. I don't think we're in LYLO for this reason. Can the mod clarify?

[Wall-E]

I can find no evidence of First Letter breadcrumbing in Doc's posts. He did
go after Tenchi, which shifts him even further up my suspect list.

I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today. Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.

We need to hear from Budja's replacement, Peter?'s replacement,
blueheaven and several others on the events of yesterday.

=============================================

Tenchi got some heat from pops in post 93, and up to that point in the
thread he'd been lurky, making fluff posts... A wagon formed on him
because of several people swiveling their attention away from Zazie and
Korts' flirting.

Tenchi readthrough:

I'm not liking Tenchi as of post 93. By post 99 he's defending my stance
on an issue that I started regarding HP, but retroactively taking my
reasoning as his own defense strikes me as opportunistic in the extreme.
There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a
decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on.

And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know [if kills have flavor]?

I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for
knowing [if kills have flavor], but what would town find useful from
knowing [if kills have flavor]?

Are you reading everything?

That's not an adequate response, imo.

Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target
he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy
target.

Who says I was targetting him?

I do.

Parking, yes

Ok.

starting an inquisition on him no.

Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure.

And besides, if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.

Vote Tenchi

For trying to start a bandwagon on a easy target.

No. You're the one who's bandwagonning. Or at least I think so. I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.

Vote: Soveliss

This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not.

As of post 126 EVERYONE is giving Tenchi the stinkeye. Peter? makes some good points (some of which I'm reiterating now, some of which I don't entirely agree with) and at this point in the thread it looks like Tenchi is the most suspicious person in the thread by polling.

Then comes his big defense. I will strikeout anything I find flippant, irrelevant or nit-picky:

Some notes and answers because I'm tired of quoting too many things:

+ I will lay off the CAPS LOCK. But I will use it once in a while. It's in my DNA.

+ REGARDING PETER: He made a similar mistake Soveliss did -- he was updated on my case but was not updated on other issues this time on the Mod's response. Although I still feel Soveliss made a graver mistake by missing 2-3 posts regarding why town/scum would want to know why a reveal in MO would be advantageous or not.

+ MORE REGARDING PETER: He posted this huge case against me when I said I was going to STFU. Could be coincidence or could be scum hoping I'd be absent so that no one would defend me.

*

+ REGARDING POPS: He's ready to leave his "masonism" "up in the air" but is ready to speculate on mine.

**

+ REGARDING ZAZIER's QUESTION ON POST 116: SEE TIMELINE HERE. I saw no other suspicious behavior except from HP missing from the thread AT THAT MOMENT. Then Soveliss came along...

+ REGARDING IF/WHEN: It was confusing I admit. I mean that if their suspicions was hinged on me being townie, then yes my lynch would be ok. But if you guys think I'm scum and you have no other leads aside from that

if I turn up scum

then that would be useless. But since I'm town I shouldn't have used the word IF. I just creates more confusion on my alignment. So it was a stupid mistake/assumption on my part.

+ REGARDING LYNCHING ON MY BIRTHDAY: I was actually having fun in my posts for the first time in this game.

- appeal to emotion

+ REGARDING POST 124: You need to let me have a life on my birthday. :-p And I did! Regardless, I was still back to write some good stuff later that day.

- appeal to emotion #2

+ REGARDING BUDJA: I wish he'd share more of his suspicions more. If he wants us to look at other players, then he should have seen/supported cases on other players by now.

- call for others to work harder
+ DOC ON HP BEING SEASONED: Point made. I'd rather not go there as HP's post is just full of circular logic. Not to mention we have more interesting discussions now.
+ QUESTION FOR DOC: Why is a playstyle argument relevant? What do you mean by that?
+ REGARDING USING METAS: It is against my better judgement. There is a lot more going on a single thread with lots of information. I'd rather rely on that than using cases that look similar but involve different people/playstyles and personalities. (Or maybe it is just a bias on my part.) Not to mention mafia is originally played without metas, so I'd rather keep it that way. Unless metas are acceptable here in mafiascum culture, then go ahead and use it. But it's not going to have too much weight (if any at all) on my book.

***

+ FINALLY QUOTES:

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss

And then:

unvote

Vote: Tenchi

....
All of his other actions are very scummy. "Can you not lynch me while i refuse to defend myself KTHXBYE". At this point, the only reason i can doubt that he's scum is that he seems like his daytalk friend would be able to coach him into better action than that.
...

For blowing out of proportion my message

on taking a break from the game and having fun in my birthday

into

being unhelpful by refusing to defend myself

. I NEVER SAID I WILL STOP DEFENDING MYSELF. AND I NEVER DID.

+ ON POPS REMOVING HIS TUNNEL VISION: OMG FINALLY!

Huge FoS still on POPS

Vote: Pops

(At this point I'm voting Pops or Soveliss.)

* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not.

** This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points.

*** This bit is a very verbose way of continuing meta discussion (or meta-meta discussion, if that's not redundant) while simultaneously denouncing meta.

Vote: Tenchi

FoS: Soveliss

Soveliss has done several things I find distasteful so far. I'll post a case on him/her if I feel it's necessary, but in light of my #1 FoSing him, I'm going to do some more observing.

Thoughts?

Short verson of this post: Vote for Tenchi, replacements need to arrive and read, less lurking please blueheaven.

[Wall-E]

I misread something Tenchi said regarding Soveliss' question on why the mafia might care if their flavor is evident or not. I retract that point. The rest of the case stands firm in my mind, however.

[Wall-E]

I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but

it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today.

Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.

I think it would be stupid for one of the masons to come out right now, especially if Doc suspected you.

Thanks for reiterating what I said.

Just so we're clear, you're claiming your vote on me is for me having a weak case, not OMGUS, right?

I think I'm happy with my vote for the moment.

[Wall-E]

I'll address the points you argued effectively. Anything I don't address you used appeal to emotion or just dismissed.

Tenchi got some heat from pops in post 93, and up to that point in the thread he'd been lurky, making fluff posts... A wagon formed on him because of several people swiveling their attention away from Zazie and Korts' flirting.

Tenchi readthrough:

I'm not liking Tenchi as of post 93. By post 99 he's defending my stance on an issue that I started regarding HP, but retroactively taking my reasoning as his own defense strikes me as opportunistic in the extreme. There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on.

Nope. I was actually the first to bring up the fact he was discussing who was mason or not. The additional points people brought up (like he jumped on vote bandwagons) just added reason to why others voted for him. AFAIK I was one of the first few people who voted for him (although it was initially born out of OMGUS). Not to mention his failure to actually provide alternative suspects if he is town(which was the thing I also noticed). He did provide Budja as one and like many others, I'm still waiting for what a Budja replacement will say.

Ah, but that's not what I'm referencing here. Let me quote it for you:

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

Actually, I give him slight town points for that. I don't see particular motivation as scum to give a shit about kill MO's.

yeah

post 19 nonrandom vote - because i'm the shiznigackle

wut wikka obama it's your birthday -day birth-wikka-day (unf unf unf baby yeah)

You honestly do not see a reason?

This is the discussion in question. Your initial response was to condemn my attack (which I later agreed with), but then;

After that one long discussion regarding his ONE post, his resounding absence makes me suspect him. Smells like scum who wants to let other people argue for him/make their associations.

Vote: HP

You jumped onboard the HP wagon for an arguably weaker reason.

REGARDING TARGETING HP: I didn't. I just parked my vote to pressure him to contribute to the thread.

Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure.

Good question. Honestly, I don't know what to ask. I just wanted him to participate more since all that initial discussion came from his question.

Well I think that smells.

"This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not. "

Good point, but that's what I'm thinking. I'm looking scummy in all three of my games right now and I can't seem to figure out how to deal with this self-scumminess. :-p I'll learn.

More self-meta? Stop it!

"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "

My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious. But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.

Hmm.

I can accept that, but it's weak sauce and smells OMGUS-y against P?.

This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points.

That's unfair. It's like saying "Let's all nullify Tenchi's good points because he's scum.".

I don't even see anything else that makes me scum aside from the fact that I voted for Pops.

Really? You're just going to dismiss the whole case like that?

When you add this whole thing up, you appear sloppy, and that's enough to drag me off the fence on the issue of your alignment and into the muddy yard of doubt.

I'm starting to think you might be a more emotional player than a logical one... the bane of my existence and the only kind of player that gives me trouble. The last time I instinctually tangled with one of your breed they flipped scum... That could have been coincidence, but I'd like to think I have a fair nose for a bullshitter.

I'm 60% sure you're scum, Tenchi, and that's way more than enough for me to keep my vote on you.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E wrote:
"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "

Tenchi wrote:
My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious.

But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.

Nice try at mischaracterization there, too.

It's not: I think you're scum and therefore your defense is weak. It's: Pre-empting Peter?'s case with, "I'm going to STFU now" doesn't erase or invalidate his points in ANY WAY.

Man, I almost fell for that. You're good.

[Wall-E]

I strongly object to that man's nonsense post. He is clearly wrong/lying/on drugs.

[Wall-E]

I essentially thought pops had softclaimed mason.

[Wall-E]

Interesting.

Can we get some more weigh-ins on Tenchi, Peter? and... oh hell, the weather outside? Anything at all will make me happy.

[Wall-E]

If you read my posts in isolation you'll see me denouncing the lynch.

[Wall-E]

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

[Wall-E]

He said, "Nobody is going to defend me except myself". If he was mason, there'd probably someone directly or indirectly helping him, and he probably would have avoided such a comment and left that up in the air. Ideally, even if he's vanilla he would have a avoided such a comment and left it up in the air.

I don't think it's untownie to point out the remark. It is tangibly valuable info, that if Tenchi is mislynch he's not mason mislynch. And I really doubt I've helped the scum figure out who's mason too much. It's not like a reverse-psychoanalyzed and quadratic pattern of his postings to deduce that he might not be mason, and released my findings. He said, in front of town, scum and all, "Nobody is going to defend me except myself".

So the rest of us are clearer, are you claiming mason, pops?

Right here. Nobody'd mentioned masonry up to that point, and when I pointed it out a moritorium was declared on the whole issue, making me even more strongly suspect pops was softclaiming. I originally wanted a cop to investigate pops on N1, and was hoping that by calling some attention to it the cop would do so, but after some people yelled at me for talking about it I washed my hands of the issue, then later I said something like, "I disagree with this lynch, but can't say why."

I hope that catches you up on the events of D1, sekinj.

Mod: Can we get some prods?

I realize it's Christmas soon, but don't forget about this game people!

[Wall-E]

My top 3 scummy players:
1 Budja (tatatadum...)

-Not answering questions aimed at him.

I can agree with this reason 100%.

-Voting as Soveliss saw hp's question as scummy (why Soveliss and not somebody else who gave comments about hp's post)

What?

-Comments about over-focusing on Tenchi

Combined with the next one, yes.

-Saying Tenchi is highly scummy, without telling why he thinks this.

Combined with the previous one, yes.

-'

Keeping friends

', better known as not scumhunting. He also gave his 'list' of suspicions once. However, his list had only Soveliss on it as Pops was neutral to him.

Can you reference the underlined bit? Where did Budja do that? The second thing is not a scumtell by any means.

-His comments about 'Tencho making errors all over the place'.

So? Apart from being kinda funny, what of it?

[Wall-E]

HEY GUISE WAT'S UP IN THIS HEAR THRED?!

[Wall-E]

This is the Tenchi, Wall-E and ZazieR thread.

[Wall-E]

SC: All the questions you asked me have already been answered, leading me to believe that your concern over the content of the thread is feigned.

Further, your vote on me was for... what?

Your interpretation of my vote comes with zero commentary on my case on Tenchi. I would appreciate your input on my case on Tenchi now that you've denounced the whole thing.

[Wall-E]

Bah. Needs more participation.

[Wall-E]

It was not a random vote on Tenchi. I never said it was. SC made that up.

[Wall-E]

"Let's see what this does." wasn't my reason for voting him either.

[Wall-E]

...do you want to keep guessing or just ask? I'm going to spoil the surprise and say, "Read my case on Tenchi." Anything I say about his behavior chronologically prior to that vote is my reasons for my vote.

Maybe you can build a... anti case on Tenchi to convince me why I'm on the wrong trail?

I am having a hard time understanding your vote on me. It seems like you think I'm dead wrong, but won't say why.

[Wall-E]

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

I would argue that it's not a scummy question. Not important to ask, but not scummy to ask either.

You're wrong about it not being important AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Regardless, I'm now thinking HP was just not giving the thread much thought rather than scum wondering aloud about his own role.

I disapprove of this lynch, but can't say why because it's verboten (apparently).

Why wouldn't you be allowed to voice why you don't like popsofctown's lynch?

I... I... I'm going to cry now.

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

Why didn't you say so earlier, damn it? ><

IT WAS VERBOTEN TO DISCUSS MASONRY AT THE TIME!!!! I GOT SHOUTED DOWN WHEN I TRIED!!!!! how many times am i going to be asked this? he wasn't a mason, so what's with this question? are you reading just my posts by isolation or ---?

[Wall-E]

happy new years everyone!

[Wall-E]

"Let's see what this does." wasn't my reason for voting him either.

It was the only thing I saw in your post other than the vote, so I interpreted it as the reason. Your confirm vote is laughable too.

It's scary to scum to be voted for with no stated reason. They start to wonder if the voter is a cop or other investigative. I was trying to unbalance Tenchi. You don't have to like it, but don't claim I had no reason when I voted.

For the record, I am NOT okay with people voting without stating their reasons.

Yeah, I realize I'm a hypocrite. I should just put that in my sig.

I'm going to spoil the surprise and say, "Read my case on Tenchi."

Which I don't understand. For at least the third time now. Meaning that somebody has to sum it up for me.

Well, see, Tenchi is the mafia. I hope that helps.

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

I would argue that it's not a scummy question. Not important to ask, but not scummy to ask either.

You're wrong about it not being important AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that

most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Regardless, I'm now thinking HP was just not giving the thread much thought rather than scum wondering aloud about his own role.

First off, don't strawman me.

I specifically denied that the question was important

TO ASK

. I did not deny that the question itself was important.

The fact that the answer is obvious makes asking it unimportant.

I believe that asking about kill flavor and especially whether or not there were any deaths is a newb tell given when it was asked. I do not see it as a reliable scum tell in this case. In fact, your stance is now identical to mine—hp [leaves] simply wasn't paying attention to the thread. I'd bring up a post I've seen elsewhere about night kills that is an accurate reflection of my beliefs, but it's unfortunately in an ongoing.

In the underlined part you make a distinction which, I believe, is silly. Then you qualify it with a point that I already made, but you use it in a manner which is untruthful: The obviousness of the answer doesn't make asking it unimportant, it makes it a scumtell, as I've already said in the blue words above.

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

Why didn't you say so earlier, damn it? ><

IT WAS VERBOTEN TO DISCUSS MASONRY AT THE TIME!!!! I GOT SHOUTED DOWN WHEN I TRIED!!!!! how many times am i going to be asked this? he wasn't a mason, so what's with this question?

When you're asked a question about a specific event, future unknowns do not apply. You thought at the time that he was a mason. You learned after the time I'm talking about that he wasn't, so you cannot use your knowledge otherwise to question my question.

Let's say you hate school so much that you want the principal dead. You kill someone you think is her, but instead turns out to be your best friend's mother. When the police come to question you, you cannot use "I didn't know she wasn't my principal" as an acceptable excuse. Similar to what you're trying to do here.

I don't think you're reading me carefully. What is the purpose behind the question in red in the first place? That's the question I was asking (and validating). I agree with everything else you said, but it has no bearing on the conversation, like a man who states a fact about weather during a discussion about sports.

are you reading just my posts by isolation or ---?

I've read the whole game before my replacement was even announced, then I went back and checked who was pinging my scumdar because I had forgotten overnight. It turned out to be you, so I looked at you in isolation.[/quote]

That's reassuring to hear, but I have evidence that you did not, in fact, read the thread, or only skimmed it. In either case, you did not comprehend the thread, which is the true goal of "reading" the thread. The track you are on with my early game comment on HP Leaves has been done already. The only reason I'm engaging you right now is that it seems to be a recurring problem people are having with me, and I want to make sure I am clearly understood.

[Wall-E]

Look, we shouldn't be fighting with no input from others, so if you have more to say, I am going to wait to respond until several others have also done so. Let's see what others think about this before we wind up with a four page circle-jerk of quotes.

[Wall-E]

I know. Wall-E is still scum.

Why? Aside from you not liking my case on Tenchi?

[Wall-E]

Well, see, Tenchi is the mafia. I hope that helps.

It doesn't. Not only is it vague, but since this is a multiball and I am unaware of the existence of any evidence that Tenchi killed hp [leaves] over Doc, you're giving me a slight werewolf vibe with this statement.

A) I said, "Here is the case on Tenchi." Then I posted a huge case against Tenchi.

B) You said, "I don't see the case on Tenchi."

C) I said, "See, Tenchi is scum."

Dismissing my entire case (A) with a one-liner (B) gave me the inclination to be equally lazy (C). If you want me to explain why Tenchi is scum, in my opinion, read my case against him. If you want to be pithy, leave it as you did.

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

I would argue that it's not a scummy question. Not important to ask, but not scummy to ask either.

You're wrong about it not being important AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that

most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Regardless, I'm now thinking HP was just not giving the thread much thought rather than scum wondering aloud about his own role.

First off, don't strawman me.

I specifically denied that the question was important

TO ASK

. I did not deny that the question itself was important.

The fact that the answer is obvious makes asking it unimportant.

I believe that asking about kill flavor and especially whether or not there were any deaths is a newb tell given when it was asked. I do not see it as a reliable scum tell in this case. In fact, your stance is now identical to mine—hp [leaves] simply wasn't paying attention to the thread. I'd bring up a post I've seen elsewhere about night kills that is an accurate reflection of my beliefs, but it's unfortunately in an ongoing.

In the underlined part you make a distinction which, I believe, is silly.

As subtle as the distinction may be, ignoring it is twisting my words and therefore misrepresenting me.

I didn't ignore anything. You're reaching.

Then you qualify it with a point that I already made, but you use it in a manner which is untruthful: The obviousness of the answer doesn't make asking it unimportant, it makes it a scumtell, as I've already said in the blue words above.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If the answer is obvious, then why is it important to ask the question in the first place? And under what circumstances is it important for somebody to ask a scummy question?

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

Why didn't you say so earlier, damn it? ><

IT WAS VERBOTEN TO DISCUSS MASONRY AT THE TIME!!!! I GOT SHOUTED DOWN WHEN I TRIED!!!!! how many times am i going to be asked this? he wasn't a mason, so what's with this question?

When you're asked a question about a specific event, future unknowns do not apply. You thought at the time that he was a mason. You learned after the time I'm talking about that he wasn't, so you cannot use your knowledge otherwise to question my question.

Let's say you hate school so much that you want the principal dead. You kill someone you think is her, but instead turns out to be your best friend's mother. When the police come to question you, you cannot use "I didn't know she wasn't my principal" as an acceptable excuse. Similar to what you're trying to do here.

I don't think you're reading me carefully. What is the purpose behind the question in red in the first place? That's the question I was asking (and validating).

You did little to stall popsofctown's lynch. The second to last post of yours before you voice your disapproval, you say that you would prefer lynching Budja over Tenchi but would be fine going after the latter. I buy your answer that you didn't say why you disapproved of a popsofctown lynch because nobody let you talk about the masons, but your best weapon therefore was to persuade the town that Budja and Tenchi, in your opinion, were better lynch options than popsofctown. Push Budja and Tenchi as much as necessary to achieve the desired effect.

I'm sorry if you don't think I tried to dissuade pop's lynch. I disagree.

I agree with everything else you said, but it has no bearing on the conversation, like a man who states a fact about weather during a discussion about sports.

It takes one to know one.

are you reading just my posts by isolation or ---?

I've read the whole game before my replacement was even announced, then I went back and checked who was pinging my scumdar because I had forgotten overnight. It turned out to be you, so I looked at you in isolation.

That's reassuring to hear, but I have evidence that you did not, in fact, read the thread, or only skimmed it. In either case, you did not comprehend the thread, which is the true goal of "reading" the thread.

Present it.

I already have. You brought up an issue which I had already addressed, namely my statement about the scummyness of hp's question about kill flavor. I answered your concerns, but it made me sure you'd skimmed the thread rather than reading the posts. See below.

For the record, I admitted that it was a weak scumtell at best, but it was an early game scumtell, which are usually weak. I still stand by my opinion on the post in question of HP's.

The track you are on with my early game comment on HP Leaves has been done already. The only reason I'm engaging you right now is that it seems to be a recurring problem people are having with me, and I want to make sure I am clearly understood.

Then why am I the only person you're attacking for misunderstanding you?

I haven't attacked you. Until now, I didn't think you were necessarily scum. The post of yours that I have just quoted is making me wonder.

[Wall-E]

SC: Your assertion that I have attacked you is bothering me. Can you cite or quote me doing that? It sounds like paranoia to me.

[Wall-E]

I know. Wall-E is still scum.

Why? Aside from you not liking my case on Tenchi?

I haven't forgotten about you strawmanning me to make it look like I said something other than what I said, nor have I forgotten about your craplogic. See below.

What crap logic? The strawman issue I will address later in this post.

C) I said, "See, Tenchi is scum."

No, you said something more specific than that:

Well, see, Tenchi is the mafia.

Nice job backtracking your statement when werewolves also exist.

Confirm vote: Wall-E.

Sit down on Uncle Wall-E's old lap, sonny, let me tell you a tale.

When I was a young man, some friends and I would play a party game. We called it Assassin. In those days we'd say things like, "StrangerCoug is a killer!" And there was the occasional fistfight or storming-off by various folk, myself excluded.

Now, one day, while parusing the internets, I happened upon a messageboard. On the messageboard, lo and behold, people were playing a game VERY similar to Assassin. They called it, 'Werewolf.' I joined them and played many exciting games. I'd soon replaced the word 'killer,' with, 'wolf,' in my brain. The messageboard was sharkey.gamespite.net/forum and its predecessor, www.pyoko.org/forum. And some people logged off and never returned, myself excluded.

Then along came Father Time. He stayed the night on my sofa, and while I was asleep, aged my brain. I suddenly found myself calling videogame systems 'nintendos,' regardless of if they were an Xbocks or a Wii or what-have-you. I still, in fact, slip occasionally and call cereal, 'cheerios,' regardless of their fiber content or lack thereof.

Later, I found a second site (that has since disappeared) where I played a game called Witch Hunt. In Witch we had only a cop (called a seer) and a role I've not seen elsewhere: A magician. The magician could investigate to see who was the cop (seer). And there were people who decided that wasn't complex enough who logged off and were never heard from again, myself excluded.

Then one day I found the Mecca of Assassin/Werewolf/Witchhunt gamers: mafiascum.net, where I was introduced to yet another word for killer/wolf/witch: The word was 'scum.'

Try as I may, when trying to communicate at any kind of tolerable speed, I can't make my brain call a PSP other than "That nintendo thingy with the wide screen." I get teased about my deficiency by youngsters, but I know a secret that they don't know: Being old sucks. I have a boil the size of your eyeball in my buttcheek and it hurts to walk sometimes. Recently one of my molars rotted clean through and I walked around wincing everytime I swallowed for a week. My back hurts all the time... Now, what was I talking about?

Uh...






I know we were discussing something trivial...



I forget. Oh well.

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

I would argue that it's not a scummy question. Not important to ask, but not scummy to ask either.

You're wrong about it not being important AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that

most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Regardless, I'm now thinking HP was just not giving the thread much thought rather than scum wondering aloud about his own role.

First off, don't strawman me.

I specifically denied that the question was important

TO ASK

. I did not deny that the question itself was important.

The fact that the answer is obvious makes asking it unimportant.

I believe that asking about kill flavor and especially whether or not there were any deaths is a newb tell given when it was asked. I do not see it as a reliable scum tell in this case. In fact, your stance is now identical to mine—hp [leaves] simply wasn't paying attention to the thread. I'd bring up a post I've seen elsewhere about night kills that is an accurate reflection of my beliefs, but it's unfortunately in an ongoing.

In the underlined part you make a distinction which, I believe, is silly.

As subtle as the distinction may be, ignoring it is twisting my words and therefore misrepresenting me.

I didn't ignore anything. You're reaching.

Then do these for me:

• Prove that there is absolutely no difference between "it is unimportant to ask the question" and "the question itself is unimportant". Not that there is such an insignificant difference that they can for most purposes be treated the same in practice; that there is
  ABSOLUTELY NO
  difference.

Ah. More semantics. Your logic is poor, but I'll comply regardless:

If it's scummy to ask, it's a scummy question. To ask. What else do you do with a question? You can't tell a question. You can't eat it. You can't ship it off to Iraq. You can't... you get the point, I'll assume.

Answer these, which you've so gladly skipped over in your response:

If the answer is obvious, then why is it important to ask the question in the first place? And under what circumstances is it important for somebody to ask a scummy question?

Let me try to explain MY take on hp's post once more:

The answer to the question by HP (Will kills have flavor?) was obvious in light of two flavors of mafia. Two flavors of mafia have only one utility: Kill flavor differentiation. Asking about the kill flavor distinction shows that either 1) the player is not cognizant of the utility of werewolves in mafia, which breaks down to A) the player is fixated on kill flavor, meaning they are likely to have a killing role, or B) the player is honestly just seeking clarification and is a noob, or 2) the player is not paying attention to the rules. 1a and 2 are both scumtells. The third is a sign of noobness. My comments were geared toward divining which of these were true. I have no problem unvoting a noob if he can convince me that's all there was to it. I'd like to point out that he never did.

Then along came you. You said that the question wasn't scummy to ask. You went on to say it wasn't important, either.

I specifically denied that the question was important

TO ASK

. I did not deny that the question itself was important.

Now, you go on to claim that I strawmanned you when I said:

You're wrong about it not being important (the words, "to ask" are implied by the word "question") AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that

most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Please help me out by cutting that block of text down into something more specific. What in there is a strawman? How is it a strawman? Do that for me and I'll feel less like you're just asking questions solely to look pro-town.

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

Why didn't you say so earlier, damn it? ><

IT WAS VERBOTEN TO DISCUSS MASONRY AT THE TIME!!!! I GOT SHOUTED DOWN WHEN I TRIED!!!!! how many times am i going to be asked this? he wasn't a mason, so what's with this question?

When you're asked a question about a specific event, future unknowns do not apply. You thought at the time that he was a mason. You learned after the time I'm talking about that he wasn't, so you cannot use your knowledge otherwise to question my question.

Let's say you hate school so much that you want the principal dead. You kill someone you think is her, but instead turns out to be your best friend's mother. When the police come to question you, you cannot use "I didn't know she wasn't my principal" as an acceptable excuse. Similar to what you're trying to do here.

I don't think you're reading me carefully. What is the purpose behind the question in red in the first place? That's the question I was asking (and validating).

You did little to stall popsofctown's lynch. The second to last post of yours before you voice your disapproval, you say that you would prefer lynching Budja over Tenchi but would be fine going after the latter. I buy your answer that you didn't say why you disapproved of a popsofctown lynch because nobody let you talk about the masons, but your best weapon therefore was to persuade the town that Budja and Tenchi, in your opinion, were better lynch options than popsofctown. Push Budja and Tenchi as much as necessary to achieve the desired effect.

I'm sorry if you don't think I tried to dissuade pop's lynch. I disagree.

Well, if you were unsuccessful, that's really as far as I can go here.

I tried as hard as I felt was necessary. I even kept it vague to give an I-might-be-a-cop-who-is-telling-you-to-back-off feel. That's the strongest way I know to dissuade a lynch. What would you have done to derail said bandwagon?

I agree with everything else you said, but it has no bearing on the conversation, like a man who states a fact about weather during a discussion about sports.

It takes one to know one.

are you reading just my posts by isolation or ---?

I've read the whole game before my replacement was even announced, then I went back and checked who was pinging my scumdar because I had forgotten overnight. It turned out to be you, so I looked at you in isolation.

That's reassuring to hear, but I have evidence that you did not, in fact, read the thread, or only skimmed it. In either case, you did not comprehend the thread, which is the true goal of "reading" the thread.

Present it.

I already have. You brought up an issue which I had already addressed, namely my statement about the scummyness of hp's question about kill flavor. I answered your concerns, but it made me sure you'd skimmed the thread rather than reading the posts. See below.

For the record, I admitted that it was a weak scumtell at best, but it was an early game scumtell, which are usually weak. I still stand by my opinion on the post in question of HP's.

I don't even think the scumtell is valid, but as long as we're on the same page...

The most valid thing you've said about me so far. At least we can agree to disagree on this point.

To reiterate: Your case for my lynch is as follows:

1) Strawmanning you.

I think not, sir.

2) Pointing out a scumtell that you disagree is a scumtell.

I can try to change your mind, but you seem to be tunneling somewhat, so I can only wish you luck with that.

3) Arguing with you...?

I'm not clear on this one.

Is that accurate?

Questions time: What do you think of my case on Tenchi? Can you give me some analysis of it? If not, why not?

[Wall-E]

Sorry about the double post, I pushed submit before I was ready. Here's the final version, please ignore my last post.

I know. Wall-E is still scum.

Why? Aside from you not liking my case on Tenchi?

I haven't forgotten about you strawmanning me to make it look like I said something other than what I said, nor have I forgotten about your craplogic. See below.

What crap logic? More on the Great Strawman of '08 later.

C) I said, "See, Tenchi is scum."

No, you said something more specific than that:

Well, see, Tenchi is the mafia.

Nice job backtracking your statement when werewolves also exist.

Confirm vote: Wall-E.

Sit down on Uncle Wall-E's old lap, sonny, let me tell you a tale.

When I was a young man, some friends and I would play a party game. We called it Assassin. In those days we'd say things like, "StrangerCoug is a killer!" And there was the occasional fistfight or storming-off by various folk, myself excluded.

Now, one day, while parusing the internets, I happened upon a messageboard. On the messageboard, lo and behold, people were playing a game VERY similar to Assassin. They called it, 'Werewolf.' I joined them and played many exciting games. I'd soon replaced the word 'killer,' with, 'wolf,' in my brain. The messageboard was sharkey.gamespite.net/forum and its predecessor, www.pyoko.org/forum. And some people logged off and never returned, myself excluded.

Then along came Father Time. He stayed the night on my sofa, and while I was asleep, aged my brain. I suddenly found myself calling videogame systems 'nintendos,' regardless of if they were an Xbocks or a Wii or what-have-you. I still, in fact, slip occasionally and call cereal, 'cheerios,' regardless of their fiber content or lack thereof.

Later, I found a second site (that has since disappeared) where I played a game called Witch Hunt. In Witch we had only a cop (called a seer) and a role I've not seen elsewhere: A magician. The magician could investigate to see who was the cop (seer). And there were people who decided that wasn't complex enough who logged off and were never heard from again, myself excluded.

Then one day I found the Mecca of Assassin/Werewolf/Witchhunt gamers: mafiascum.net, where I was introduced to yet another word for killer/wolf/witch: The word was 'scum.'

Try as I may, when trying to communicate at any kind of tolerable speed, I can't make my brain call a PSP other than "That nintendo thingy with the wide screen." I get teased about my deficiency by youngsters, but I know a secret that they don't know: Being old sucks. I have a boil the size of your eyeball in my buttcheek and it hurts to walk sometimes. Recently one of my molars rotted clean through and I walked around wincing everytime I swallowed for a week. My back hurts all the time... Now, what was I talking about?

Uh...






I know we were discussing something trivial...



I forget. Oh well.

Answer these, which you've so gladly skipped over in your response:

If the answer is obvious, then why is it important to ask the question in the first place? And under what circumstances is it important for somebody to ask a scummy question?

Let me try to explain MY take on hp's post once more:

The answer to the question by HP (Will kills have flavor?) was obvious in light of two flavors of mafia. Two flavors of mafia have only one utility: Kill flavor differentiation. Asking about the kill flavor distinction shows that either 1) the player is not cognizant of the utility of werewolves in mafia, which breaks down to A) the player is fixated on kill flavor, meaning they are likely to have a killing role, or B) the player is honestly just seeking clarification and is a noob, or 2) the player is not paying attention to the rules, which is either A) because they are a badguy and don't care who dies as long as it's not him or B) it's a sign of total apathy for the game. 1a and 2a are both scumtells. 2b is scummy. My comments were geared toward divining which of these were the case with HP.

I have no problem unvoting a noob if he can convince me that's all there was to it. I'd like to point out that he never did. I'd also like to point out that I defaulted to 1a when the issue was discussed at length previously.

Then along came you. You said that the question wasn't scummy to ask. You went on to say it wasn't important, either.

I specifically denied that the question was important

TO ASK

. I did not deny that the question itself was important.

Now, you go on to claim that I strawmanned you when I said:

You're wrong about it not being important (the words, "to ask" are implied by the word "question") AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that

most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Please help me out by cutting that block of text down into something more specific. What in there is a strawman? How is it a strawman? Do that for me and I'll feel less like you're just asking questions solely to look pro-town. In the meantime:

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

I would argue that it's not a scummy question. Not important to ask, but not scummy to ask either.

You're wrong about it not being important AND about it not being a scummy question. It's very important, but the answer is obvious (see: werewolf role, as someone pointed out), which is why HP's concern rubbed me wrong. As I said before, the werewolf (on mafiascum, anyway) has no other purpose than kill flavor distinction, which we need to help us find the scum. QED the answer WAS important and it was ALSO scummy to ask about, in my opinion, due to the fact that

most town would probably jump to the same conclusion I did rather than needing 100% mod validation.

Regardless, I'm now thinking HP was just not giving the thread much thought rather than scum wondering aloud about his own role.

First off, don't strawman me.

I specifically denied that the question was important

TO ASK

. I did not deny that the question itself was important.

The fact that the answer is obvious makes asking it unimportant.

I believe that asking about kill flavor and especially whether or not there were any deaths is a newb tell given when it was asked. I do not see it as a reliable scum tell in this case. In fact, your stance is now identical to mine—hp [leaves] simply wasn't paying attention to the thread. I'd bring up a post I've seen elsewhere about night kills that is an accurate reflection of my beliefs, but it's unfortunately in an ongoing.

In the underlined part you make a distinction which, I believe, is silly.

As subtle as the distinction may be, ignoring it is twisting my words and therefore misrepresenting me.

I didn't ignore anything. You're reaching.

Then do these for me:

• Prove that there is absolutely no difference between "it is unimportant to ask the question" and "the question itself is unimportant". Not that there is such an insignificant difference that they can for most purposes be treated the same in practice; that there is
  ABSOLUTELY NO
  difference.

Ah. More semantics. Your logic is poor, but I'll comply regardless:

If it's scummy to ask, it's a scummy question. To ask. What else do you do with a question? You can't tell a question. You can't eat it. You can't ship it off to Iraq. You can't... you get the point, I'll assume.

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

Why didn't you say so earlier, damn it? ><

IT WAS VERBOTEN TO DISCUSS MASONRY AT THE TIME!!!! I GOT SHOUTED DOWN WHEN I TRIED!!!!! how many times am i going to be asked this? he wasn't a mason, so what's with this question?

When you're asked a question about a specific event, future unknowns do not apply. You thought at the time that he was a mason. You learned after the time I'm talking about that he wasn't, so you cannot use your knowledge otherwise to question my question.

Let's say you hate school so much that you want the principal dead. You kill someone you think is her, but instead turns out to be your best friend's mother. When the police come to question you, you cannot use "I didn't know she wasn't my principal" as an acceptable excuse. Similar to what you're trying to do here.

I don't think you're reading me carefully. What is the purpose behind the question in red in the first place? That's the question I was asking (and validating).

You did little to stall popsofctown's lynch. The second to last post of yours before you voice your disapproval, you say that you would prefer lynching Budja over Tenchi but would be fine going after the latter. I buy your answer that you didn't say why you disapproved of a popsofctown lynch because nobody let you talk about the masons, but your best weapon therefore was to persuade the town that Budja and Tenchi, in your opinion, were better lynch options than popsofctown. Push Budja and Tenchi as much as necessary to achieve the desired effect.

I'm sorry if you don't think I tried to dissuade pop's lynch. I disagree.

Well, if you were unsuccessful, that's really as far as I can go here.

I tried as hard as I felt was necessary. I even kept it vague to give an I-might-be-a-cop-who-is-telling-you-to-back-off feel. That's the strongest way I know to dissuade a lynch. What would you have done to derail said bandwagon? It's interesting to me that you're Budja's replacement and you fixated on this detail of my history.

I agree with everything else you said, but it has no bearing on the conversation, like a man who states a fact about weather during a discussion about sports.

It takes one to know one.

are you reading just my posts by isolation or ---?

I've read the whole game before my replacement was even announced, then I went back and checked who was pinging my scumdar because I had forgotten overnight. It turned out to be you, so I looked at you in isolation.

That's reassuring to hear, but I have evidence that you did not, in fact, read the thread, or only skimmed it. In either case, you did not comprehend the thread, which is the true goal of "reading" the thread.

Present it.

I already have. You brought up an issue which I had already addressed, namely my statement about the scummyness of hp's question about kill flavor. I answered your concerns, but it made me sure you'd skimmed the thread rather than reading the posts. See below.

For the record, I admitted that it was a weak scumtell at best, but it was an early game scumtell, which are usually weak. I still stand by my opinion on the post in question of HP's.

I don't even think the scumtell is valid, but as long as we're on the same page...

The most valid thing you've said about me so far. At least we can agree to disagree on this point.

To reiterate: Your case for my lynch is as follows:

1) Strawmanning you.

I think not, sir.

2) Pointing out a scumtell that you disagree is a scumtell.

I can try to change your mind, but you seem to be tunneling somewhat, so I can only wish you luck with that.

3) Arguing with you...?

I'm not clear on this one.

Is that accurate?

Questions time: What do you think of my case on Tenchi? Can you give me some analysis of it? If not, why not?

1) You have (perhaps mistakenly) lied about me attacking you. Before the post before this one, I never had.
2) You have used semantics to argue that I have strawmanned you. I have stated my case on why I think you're being silly.
3) You are enjoying this quote war as much as I am, but it may be turning others off to reading the thread. To those people:

IF YOU ARE HAVING A HARD TIME FOLLOWING THIS THREAD DUE TO THE MASSIVE QUOTE NESTS:

SC AND I ARE KEEPING THE FULL CONTENT OF OUR CONVERSATION QUOTE-NESTED

YOU CAN SAFELY IGNORE OUR POSTS COMPLETELY AND JUST READ THE MOST RECENT EXCHANGE BETWEEN US, WHICH IS LIKE A PAGE LONG AT THIS POINT

I HOPE THAT HELPS, SORRY IF YOU HAVE A LIFE AND CAN'T DIGEST THIS MUCH INFORMATION

[Wall-E]

I agree with Seraphim that SC is giving off town vibes. My question for him now is this: Why does one of me/SC necessarily have to be scum? If I die and flip town, is SC going to be suspect to you?

[Wall-E]

I think anyone saying they'll STFU is scummy. Tenchi going back on it could be a gambit, but it's a poor one if so. IMO, there's nothing strictly scummy about continuing to participate in the thread, regardless of what he said previously.

Bah, you broke the quote war and now I feel sad.

When I said "You're wrong about it not being important" I should have been more clear: What I meant to say was "You are wrong if you think there is no significance in HP asking the question."

SC wrote: "What's the point of asking if it's obvious?"

Exactly! Exactly right. That's why I called HP out for doing so. I hadn't considered that HP might just be lazy or a noob. I also stand by this call out. We need scummy townies like I need a hole in my head.

I think that wraps up almost all of the quote war. Hooray for misunderstandings. If there's anything else, I'm pretty bored today, so hit me up.

I'm sticking by my Tenchi lynch push. I recommend more people also research it.

[Wall-E]

SC: There is a question you didn't answer in my super-long post. Can you answer it?

"I tried as hard as I felt was necessary. I even kept it vague to give an I-might-be-a-cop-who-is-telling-you-to-back-off feel. That's the strongest way I know to dissuade a lynch. What would you have done to derail said bandwagon? It's interesting to me that you're Budja's replacement and you fixated on this detail of my history."

[Wall-E]

Seraphim: What about Budja were you suspicious of? I can't remember if I was suspicious of him or not before his replacement, but something SC said recently made me wonder about Budja.

Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.

Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.

FOS Tenchi

However Soveliss does also seem scummy. First he follow-votes HP now it seems he is follow-voting Tenchi.

Confirm vote Soveliss

I see some strong interaction between you two as well, and now you take SC's side in an argument, fallaciously implying that if one of us is wrong that makes the person scum necessarily. Can you comment on that?

...I think that's enough trash-talk for now.

[Wall-E]

That's a clever copout, but I asked what you WOULD have done, not what you would NOT have done.

[Wall-E]

Um, read my response again. I said that the easiest way to derail his lynch in this setup is to prove that the case on him is crap. That's what I would have done if I were you. The only way I'm getting what you're complaining about involves my stance on the case against popsofctown, not yours (I don't see the mason soft claim, so if my real self were in the game at this point I'd be partaking in his lynch).

Right. I am asking you to put yourself in my shoes. One of the things you've said of me is that I did not try hard enough to disprove the case on pops. I am asking what you think I should have done instead.

I think if you answer this question truthfully you will have gone back on your entire case against me. At that point I'm going to request you remove your vote on me, or give another reason why it's still on me.

I really wish more people were posting.

[Wall-E]

Oh, I see now what you are saying. Disregard my last post.

[Wall-E]

Here's the rub: I agree with you that the case was good. Modulating that, I also felt he'd softclaimed. Therefore, you saying I should have disproved the case is ridiculous!

[Wall-E]

You can't pre-empt cases against you by saying you'll be gone. What the hell, Tenchi?

[Wall-E]

Best. Three-player game. Ever.

[Wall-E]

Zazie: What do you think of my case on Tenchi? Could I convince you that it outweighs a lurker policy lynch?

vote count

wall-e (2): strangercoug, seraphim
tenchi (1): wall-e
peter? (1): tenchi
seraphim (1): zazier

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

still here, still haven't gotten any more replacements.
It's quite disheartening...

[Wall-E]

*burp*

[Wall-E]

SC: If you were a dayvig and you had to kill someone right this second, who would it be? Tenchi, same question.

[Wall-E]

Before someone asks: Tenchi would be my #1, followed by Soveliss at #2 just because of that one chiming post, if I may coin a phrase.

[Wall-E]

Right now it's a toss-up between you and Tenchi, but only because no one else is really involved right now and I haven't gotten a chance to interact with them.

It seems like you're saying interaction = scummy. I know you'll deny it, but: As scum, a player might be tempted to say something like the above quote to encourage the town to think along the lines that the town's choices are between two of the most active posters who aren't you.

[Wall-E]

I think I speak for everyone who's active when I say: Welcome back, Peter?. Looking forward to hearing from you (and others).

[Wall-E]

I think the real question is, how long should ThAdmiral wait before modkilling inactives?

I'd prefer if ThAdmiral killed, say, one per week until everyone alive has posted since New Years.

If the mod rolled a die to pick the week's modkill victim it would be most fair for everyone.

How's that sound?

I'd agree to one mass modkill if that's how the *coughmasonscough* rest of everyone wants to do this thing.

[Wall-E]

Who is hp [leaves] replacing in for?

[Wall-E]

I just did another readthrough and built a massive post and it got deleted as a result of my crappy computer situation... but the gist of it was this:

Budja/Soveliss were giving me partners vibes throughout the thread.

hp [leaves]: If you were a compulsive day-vig and had to kill someone right this second, who would it be and why?

[Wall-E]

Who is pops replacing in for?

pops: same question as in 398.

[Wall-E]

Peter?: same question as in 398, and what do you think of my case on Tenchi?

vote count

wall-e (2): strangercoug, seraphim
tenchi (1): wall-e
peter? (1): tenchi
seraphim (1): zazier

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[Wall-E]

hp [leaves]: If you truly believe he should die, why aren't you voting for him?

[Wall-E]

I hate those kind of posts.

[Wall-E]

You don't like that I said 'mafia' instead of 'scum?'

As I told you previously, my reasons for voting for Tenchi are in my case on him. If I said Tenchi was creating a distraction, it was not one of the reasons I voted for him, er, ...for.

I get the feeling a Tenchi lynch is lacking momentum.

Anyone who analyzes my case on Tenchi with a point-by-point analysis will earn my respect, as well as be helping the town out immensely.

I'm not 100% certain he's the mafia, so if anyone can point out flaws in the case it would be appreciated, but if nobody does I'd like to ask everyone WHY they aren't either voting for Tenchi or saying what is wrong with the case.

I've asked several people questions that I will not forget about. I can be very annoying. Ask anybody.

[Wall-E]

If my attention were a pie, I'd say I give over 90% of that pie to this thread when I post here.

When someone asked me why I didn't try harder to stop pop's lynch in light of me thinking he'd claimed masonry, I stated words to the effect of, "I would have preferred we not lynch pops and instead a cop investigate him or something."

I remember the post without even having to go back and read the thread.

Now, I've played a fair number of these things. I have a General Sense of how things should be going down most of the time. That said, at the time I mentioned a cop, I didn't consider the setup. At all. I simply fell back on my instinct.

Like when I called Tenchi "the mafia."

I bet in every single game I've played on this site I've slipped up and said, "The Mafia" instead of "scum" at least once.

I distinctly remember doing so many times, in fact.

If asked, I will even do some legwork and quote you a few times I've done that.



Next point:

When this game was dying, I went into my overposting mode, trying to kick the antfarm, as it were, and generate some life. You started helping, and I appreciated the effort. I think between us we revitalized this thread fairly well (or just annoyed people into posting to shut us up).

Now you want me to hang because I wasn't fully cognizant of every detail of the thread for every single one of the 200 posts I've made in it?

There was one person who was pinging my scumdar, but I don't remember and I need to go back and check. (I think it's someone who's still alive.)

Ah, yes. Wall-E.

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

I would argue that it's not a scummy question. Not important to ask, but not scummy to ask either.

Vote: Tenchi

Let's see what this does.

What the hell, Wall-E!? A random vote after you made a read vote?

Vote: Wall-E

Happy birthday!

I'm a huge Tenchi Muyo fan!

Confirm vote: Tenchi

Again, what the hell?

I disapprove of this lynch, but can't say why because it's verboten (apparently).

Why wouldn't you be allowed to voice why you don't like popsofctown's lynch?

I thought pops was a bad lynch because I thought he'd soft-claimed mason.

Why didn't you say so earlier, damn it? ><

Your point is that I haven't been paying attention to the thread, correct?

The above words in red are you not paying attention to the thread.

SC, you strike me as being biased against me. Is this true? You started your read of the thread saying, "A mysterious someone is scummy to me... Now who was that? Oh yeah, Wall-E!"

Then you proceeded to break down my posts. You made the point that hp [leaves]'s question wasn't scummy. I said it was. You eventually conceeded on that point to say it wasn't scummy of me to say his question was scummy.

Next, you said my vote for Tenchi was whack. The problem is that my vote for Tenchi was based on my... scumdar? He'd done enough things that blew my mind to warrant my vote. You saying I didn't have a reason doesn't make it true, and rather than EVER address my case on Tenchi you have instead denounced (without saying why) and then supported (without saying why) it.

What about the case on Tenchi do you agree with?

What about it did you disagree with?

A point-by-point analysis of the case against him would do a lot to restore my faith in you right now, because at the moment itsmells to me like you are going through the thread, hunting for things to persecute me for, and posting them as soon as you find them. I believe that's called tunneling?

What's the dealy-o?

[Wall-E]

Mod: I think it might be getting close to time to prod or modkill someone.

[Wall-E]

The more I reread, the more I see why HP was NKed.

Why was he NKed, in your opinion.

Also, great posting Tenchi.

[Wall-E]

I got lynched for practically no reason but revoting tenchi. I kind of want to indulge now, since no one can earnestly use it as a tell now.

Self-meta won't give you a pass. If you repeat your previous scummy tendancies, I will recommend that those who previously lynched you vote for you again.

A tell is a tell regardless of meta.

You're coming on a bit stronger this time. Is is possible YOUR role changed?

[Wall-E]

I see what you're saying.

[Wall-E]

I thought he was saying that if he unvoted and revoted again now he would expect to get a free pass on it. My mistake.

[Wall-E]

In my defense on the masonry issue, I'm still fairly new with this role. I've never played with masons before High School Mafia, and in that game the subject never came up.

And I defy anyone to show me where I discussed masonry in the context of revealing WHO was a mason after the post containing the word kiss.

[Wall-E]

Tenchi: I'm worried that your recap of the entire thread might prompt people to fail to re-read the thread themselves and therefore miss what you may have missed. However I find your re-cap to be objective and fair.

[Wall-E]

That said, you must still die.

[Wall-E]

The way Tenchi discusses the NK borders on confession

I don't think my IQ allows me to do that. (Read: I'm not completely stupid and hopeless.) I just posted an observation. The motivation behind the NK actually tells us the priorities of the said group as scum.

One of the strongest newbie scum-tells has always been commentary on NKs. There's something about the psychology of the game that typically prompts people to comment on their own handiwork. It's like that kid who fingerpaints a picture and isn't sure if it's good, so he stands near it loudly commenting on it to see who agrees or disagrees with his words. It doesn't matter much what he says, good or bad, about the painting, it's more the fact that he's commenting in the first place. I'd say at this point I'm looking at everything you do more closely, both because my own neck may ride on you being scum after the strong push I've made against you, and because the entire game may hinge on you being scum. This latest tell from you is reassuring to me, to say the least, but I've frankly been standing a bit closer to the fence on you since you started the long commentary. It was fairly pro-town of you. Still, upon reflection, I have to agree with pops. I myself fell for this scumtell somewhat recently and got caught as scum, so I know the bitter taste of it well.

rambling post is rambling

[Wall-E]

Tenchi has skyrocketed on my chart.

T--------------------OBVSCUM-------------SC----|----W-----------OBVTOWN

It's kinda weird that there are only three people on your list.

Also, way to paint a target on my back

[Wall-E]

But it's good to know it was your scum faction that killed hp.

Then maybe we are on opposite factions! *gasp* Glad you guys were more intelligent that we were and you got Doc out!

This confession is stronger than SC's scumtells.

Unvote, vote Tenchi

Mod, please note sig.

Doc and hp were the two who died on N1. Doc was eaten, hp was shot. It's not a HUGE stretch of the imagination that he made this post as sarcastic town after being accused of shooting hp. Why are you contrasting/comparing Tenchi to SC?

How will Tenchi's flip effect your perception of the thread? How will it effect your perception of SC?

[Wall-E]

claiming to be mafia is always one of the stronger scumtells

I can't argue with that.

[Wall-E]

Mod: How about them modkills?

considering once again...

[Wall-E]

I would call most of those "explosions" rather than "implosions." Implosion has a flavor of lack-of-self-control, imo. All those citations are me displaying my anger and *meaning* it.





I'm having a hard time deciding if it's ethical to say, "I agree to a modkill only if it kills scum."

I know my alignment, and I know that the odds are better than 50% that if half of everyone who isn't me died right now, town would come out on top.

If you can sort that statement out, more power to you.

[Wall-E]

Seraphim: Since you've been listed as active, can you please answer the questions addressed to you?

[Wall-E]

I have asked you at least two questions. Look them up. I'm not going to play this game

for

you.

vote count

tenchi (3): wall-e, popsofctown, hp [leaves]
wall-e (2): blakadder, seraphim
haschel cedricson (1): tenchi
seraphim (1): jenethron

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[Wall-E]

Mod: Can you move Seraphim back onto the "inactives" list and do a random modkill? That or modkill the person with the least content/posts/person who posted the most time ago. I'm happy with whatever you pick.

[Wall-E]

Jenethon replaced ZazieR, for the public record.

[Wall-E]

Why have you not mentioned Seraphim in this? Surely that "on the events of yesterday", he is the one of most interest here.

I feel as though Wall-E ignored Seraphim throughout this period. His case on Tenchi, while good, could have been a disguise on Seraphim's L-1 move, which was particularly dodgy. I mean, you questioned Doc about not responding before the deadline, but why not Seraphim for not responding to pops' allegations just before the lynch.

Although I am not particularly suspicious of Wall-E, I am suspicious of this link between them. (Also, Wall-E seems to be the only one who is actually here - perhaps he is the only one who will actually read my post.)

I try not to spread my focus out so much in *most* games, because it makes the targets of my harrassment feel more harried and less like they are being indiscriminately kicked in the butt. To be honest, however, I didn't even really consider Seraphim all that scummy until someone mentioned something about him recently. I can look it up if anyone wants to hear the thing.

[Wall-E]

We await your wisdom with baited breath.

[Wall-E]

Ease up on the throwing-of-caution-to-the-wind, pops.

[Wall-E]

Mod: Request deadline modkill of Tenchi be the lynch for the day

[Wall-E]

Last/worst-case scenario.

[Wall-E]

What the eff.

Hopefully you aren't replacing out because your butt hurts.

My vote stays on Tenchi barring something really stellar popping in.

[Wall-E]

Confirm vote: Tenchi

wake me up if something happens

[Wall-E]

Tenchi: Just to touch on some of the things you've spoken about:

The "strawman": I think you're misunderstanding the series of events. All I can do is prompt you to read that segment of the thread again bearing in mind that I did not want to discuss masonry (as you've pointed out) but still wanted to keep pops alive (as I've quoted previously).

Just because everyone says doing something is strictly scummy doesn't always make it true.

On the other issues: Before doing it myself, the word choice issue might have been something that I, too, would latch onto.

I agree with Seraphim that SC is giving off town vibes. My question for him now is this: Why does one of me/SC necessarily have to be scum? If I die and flip town, is SC going to be suspect to you?

Seraphim: What about Budja were you suspicious of? I can't remember if I was suspicious of him or not before his replacement, but something SC said recently made me wonder about Budja.

Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.

Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.

FOS Tenchi

However Soveliss does also seem scummy. First he follow-votes HP now it seems he is follow-voting Tenchi.

Confirm vote Soveliss

I see some strong interaction between you two as well, and now you take SC's side in an argument, fallaciously implying that if one of us is wrong that makes the person scum necessarily. Can you comment on that?

[Wall-E]

I made a case yesterday. It was good enough for a lynch then. It hasn't decayed since. Like i said earlier, he hasn't saved any nuns from burning buildings, i've no less reason to think he's scum

Dude, it's not enough that he hasn't been helpful. We are in like SuperLYLO as a town right now. We need to lynch people who are DEFINITELY scum. If you aren't sure of yourself I really think you should unvote.

[Wall-E]

I misread what you said pops. Ignore me.

[Wall-E]

What's the point of a claim if you're planning to hammer regardless? Faced with that choice, I'd tell you to eat me. Also, if you have something to say about me, say it. What's the point in waiting?

Nobody's ever said, "Eat me." to you before, Tenchi? It's a fairly common colloquialism here in California.

on 280: I have no honest idea.

[Wall-E]

Tenchi: I will join you in requesting a deadline if you can present a case on myself or any other player that the other actives agree is strong enough to warrant further debate. I'll be online all day today and tomorrow.

vote count

tenchi (3): wall-e, popsofctown, hp [leaves]
wall-e (2): blakadder, tenchi
howardroark (1): haschel cedricson
hp [leaves] (1): howardroark

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[Wall-E]

EBWOQ:

Tenchi: I will join you in requesting a deadline

extension

if you can present a case on myself or any other player that the other actives agree is strong enough to warrant further debate. I'll be online all day today and tomorrow.

[Wall-E]

i feel like you've been quarantined, tenchi.

your page 22 points seem like last-minute flailing, something we've all had to harden our hearts toward, unfortunately.

the quarantine bothers me a bit, but not enough to second-guess myself. i'm betting your partner is AWOL and the other scumteam is on your wagon. i'm hoping your lynch will be the tide-turner for this game.

[Wall-E]

we need to beat the clock with some Tenchi lynch guys.. or Seraphim lynch would be delightful too. Wall-E, would you deadline switch to Seraphim if he got a following? He's at two votes right now.

Hmmm. Sure, why not. You only live once.

Unvote: Vote: Soveliss/HP

[Wall-E]

1) Too many people are "unsure" of a Tenchi lynch. Pops' attempt to get me off his wagon was the last bit of 'proof' I needed to convince me he was probably town.
2) Tenchi has been very active and helpful following my case against him.
3) With two obvtown players the scum will have to NK both of us, and there's a good chance they'll both attack me or Tenchi, leaving the other of us alive to scumhunt.


Soveliss is my other pick for the lynch today, so he gets my vote.

I have a whole new scumlist after the last couple of pages

[Wall-E]

Nobody tried to save Tenchi this whole time. Now, suddenly, Soveliss is in trouble and someone hops onto Tenchi's wagon to try to save him. You've tipped your hand, Cederic.

[Wall-E]

How can you call a townie at this stage in the game trying to stop a myslynch "too self-preservational?"

I'm going to call you Obvscum and be done with it.

Unvote: Vote HaschelCedericson

[Wall-E]

hell, for that matter, what the deuce is wrong with being self-preservational in the first place?

[Wall-E]

Fairy tales are fun. So is rewriting history. But you know what's the most fun? Being honest about the events in the thread.

Soveliss is my other pick for the lynch today, so he gets my vote.

Unvote: Vote HaschelCedericson

We are within hours of the deadline resolving, and you do some jumping like this?!?!? That makes

Tenchi

the vote leader and you are responsible for his lynch at this point with your unvote.

FoS: Wall-E

.

That's a loaded question, because it assumes that Tenchi is definitely a townie, which I don't believe is the case.

But it appears that

Wall-E

does believe he is a townsperson

How can you call a townie at this stage in the game trying to stop a myslynch "too self-preservational?"

::facepalm::

Why the fuck would you cut out Haschel's scummy play and then present my reaction to it as somehow unrelated? Are you trying to downplay what he did? Attempting to divert attention away from reality?

Here's how I remember events happening:

Soveliss is my other pick for the lynch today, so he gets my vote.

If we're not going to switch to Seraphim/Howard, I would much rather see Tenchi lynched than Soveliss/hp.

Vote: Tenchi

.

Unvote: Vote HaschelCedericson

We are within hours of the deadline resolving, and you do some jumping like this?!?!? That makes

Tenchi

the vote leader and you are responsible for his lynch at this point with your unvote.

FoS: Wall-E

.

Haschel had plenty of time prior to my unvote to toss his vote onto Tenchi and guarantee Tenchi's lynch. THE VERY NEXT POST AFTER I UNVOTED, Haschel dropped a pithy little bundle of vote excuse and stepped right back on Tenchi's side of the teeter-totter.

No, for real. I had a million reasons to vote for Tenchi. Haschel's reason was... what? He'd rather see Tenchi dead than Soveliss/HP? Why?

Haschel: WHY would you rather see Tenchi dead than Soveliss/HP?

What was so compelling about my UNVOTE that made you want TO vote?

That's a loaded question, because it assumes that Tenchi is definitely a townie, which I don't believe is the case.

But it appears that

Wall-E

does believe he is a townsperson

How can you call a townie at this stage in the game trying to stop a myslynch "too self-preservational?"

Howard: Why would I unvote Tenchi if I thought he was scum? Would you call a townie doing anything and everything to prevent his own mislynch at this stage in this game a bad idea?

I say it was who my vote landed

on

that was the motivation for his own vote, namely his scumbuddy Soveliss/HP.

Finally, why didn't anybody come to Tenchi's rescue like Howard is doing for Haschel? Remember that there are four scum and five town out there. It's amazing Tenchi didn't earn MORE votes at this stage in the game.

I would like to hear from HP about all this.

[Wall-E]

er, that was tagfail on my part

[Wall-E]

FoS: Wall-E

.

Are you playing this game with 2 accounts?

Pops is selectively reading.

I agree with this.

I also agree that having proof of anything in this game defeats the purpose of the game.

Hmm. Between you two...

Tenchi has mostly been guilty of textbook scumtells, all of which I've done as town. Pops, on the other hand, is clearly not very concerned with the content of the thread. I've never done

that

as town.

Unvote: Vote: popsofctown

[Wall-E]

Unvote

[Wall-E]

I wouldn't be against Tenchi replacing back in.

[Wall-E]

let's keep this game as incestuous as possible

[Wall-E]

. . .

[Wall-E]

boo replace in you turd

[Wall-E]

DO EEET

[Wall-E]

orly

unvote: vote: blakadder

[Wall-E]

Have you prodded blakadder? weird stuff.

Wall-E, although the low activity almost makes that sort of thing safe, you should probably unvote because of the high number of scum factions. (unless you want to vote blakadder for real reasons)

Hmm. Why do you say, "For real reasons?"

[Wall-E]

ok, here's a breakdown of our situation:

We have seven living town, four of which are scum, three vanilla.

That means the remaining villagers are more useful to the scum alive than dead

which means very pro-town play will be protected and awarded. The vanilla townies remaining cannot be removed at this point in the game or it will result in a double mafia KO: If all the townies die, scumteam A would essentially be facing even numbers (scumteam B's 2 players), fulfilling both win conditions...? Possibly? Regardless, it would mean I lose.

which means the town still has a good chance to win this if we wait for the blood and sweat out some minor lurking... heck, we could put someone at L-1 and wait for a scum to take the chance at gaining the upper hand and hammer... it's always worthwhile to make sure your enemy knows their options, so you can plan accordingly, right?

Scum: If you give us a mafia lynch today you'll have 100% chance to beat the other team. If you give us a townie, it stays at 50% and the longer you fight the closer to catching one of you we become. Make sure it's not your team.

thoughts?

vote count

budja (2): howardroark, wall-e
howardroark (2): haschel cedricson, budja

not voting: jenethron, popsofctown

with 6 alive it is 4 to lynch

[Wall-E]

pops: How did you come to be cognizant of that fact? It's possible it was by researching your own limitations for your role. Since all the masons are dead, you must be scum. just a random thought

[Wall-E]

Right now I very much want to lynch the most lurkiest player in the game. Who's taken the most time since their last post?

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: HowardRoark

Lookie lookie! Howard is at L-1!

[Wall-E]

wewt

i got really lucky

good game all!~

[Wall-E]

I got so

into

the scumhunting in this game; I sent in a kill order on my own partner night before last. That would have been hilarious(?).

Sorry partner!

[Wall-E]

Thanks for the game, ThAdmiral! You rock!

[Wall-E]

Haschel Cedericson gets the credit for killing sekinji.