Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Ranger]

But when you get back, Enchant does seem a bit worried to see you elim'ed it seems.....

Enchant's the Oclaxian Empire slot, correct?

I think our interactions say plenty of us not being scumbuddies. Plus there's three scum not two. Who am I teamed with?

(I also am too tired today, nearly died driving. Today needs to be rest as well.)

[Ranger]

There seems to be some frustration in her last post, and even some TMI in asking who she would be scum with, really don't like it at all.

There's certainly frustration in the main accusation against me

the whole game

being "Ranger seems like she has TMI". (This is not an accusation I can defend against because it's not logical. I know it's wrong but arguing is just "I think Ranger has TMI" "I don't, so you're wrong" "well I think you have TMI and I'm right". How am I meant to engage in that?)

That is genuinely the backbone of

every

argument against my slot. (Perhaps because it is easy to make an impossible to defend against?)

That said,
My post was more a call to critical analysis and looking through things logically.

If I were scum it'd be a fact I'd have two scumbuddies.

Every player stating I am scum must therefore also be held accountable for solving to find said alleged scumbuddies. Failure to do so shows lack of critical thought. As town, that's severe bias; as scum, that's a tell.

So my challenge is to separate the town suspicious of me from the scum:

Town players suspecting me should be able to reason their way into finding a plausible scumteam.

Scum players will need to risk blowing their Ranger mislim by tying me to other players which remove their credibility.

I in particular when I am not on the verge of literal death (hopefully tomorrow?) intend to dive into the wagons because I believe there is an effort to eliminate me which is scumdriven, and has been the entire game.

[Aureal]

No rush, we've got over four days, you take care of yourself. Looking forward to what you have to say when you're able!

[Ranger]

So why not try to do that?

What makes you think they didn't?

Vanderscamp (3):

Vanderscamp, Oclaxian Empire, AurorusVox.

AurorusVox (1):

Doctor Drew.

Not Voting (2):

Bellaphant, BloodB0t.

Pre Edit: Actually VOTE: Vander
That is E-1.....err, H-1?

I'm fairly certain there was a push to do precisely this. With your self-vote it'd take only one extra townie voting you to pull it off.

If Oclaxian Empire and AurorusVox are scum, they would need one more town player voting you to hammer you into heaven. If Doctor Drew's town, that would be an opportunity. If Doctor Drew's scum, they'd just need a town player to hammer.

It's also possible two scum were off as well, given BloodB0t was being replaced at the time. If only

one

of {Oclaxian Empire, AurorusVox} was scum, then all they needed to hammer you was the BloodB0t replacement to come in. Doctor Drew's vote on you seems suspect in that regard.

It's impossible for that pool of four to all be town. {Vanderscamp, Oclaxian Empire, AurorusVox, Doctor Drew}

must

contain a

minimum

of one scum, and could contain 2-3 easily.

I think they wanted you in heaven, but pivoted course. That shift was suspect.

[Bellaphant]

I like ^, but I'm pretty sure aureal is town.

[Enchant]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Yawn.

[Doctor Drew]

Aureal has just helped to solidify the townie vibes I was getting from bloodbot

If people don’t like vanders for heaven then they need to be proposing alternatives that aren’t themselves.

Based on my calculations earlier the only person who could contend with vanders for heaven is Asia. I’m guessing aureal would accord with that which I think gives Asia the necessary support too.

Tbh I’d be happy with either, drew being on vanders as well as Ranger maybe pushes me towards

VOTE: asia

VOTE: Aisa

Ok now I am on Aisa, you gonna switch to Vanders now?

Agree Aureal is fairly good vibes

Seconded.

This does necessitate a reassessment from he.

VOTE: Aisa
I'm comfortable sending Aisa to heaven.

I need to reassess my reads to find who to send to hell. (My pool had Aureal's slot there, so with Aureal towning it up, my reads need a reset.)

I'm a bit busy today so I'll handle a reassess tomorrow.

Not sure how to process this, but Vox was not sure about sending Vander to heaven because myself and Ranger were on them.

I then vote Aisa wondering if they would jump off Aisa(and I was liking her for town at this point).
Then Ranger sheeps.........and Vox kinda was gone.

Trying to re-calibrate here.

[Vanderscamp]

@vander it's the why I feel is missing? Maybe I'm tired but it feels like conclusions, not procees. This in particular ' understand why scum would want to send Aisa to heaven over me if they know that Ranger is town and they can get an extremely reliable kill there to win the game if they can lim someone other than Ranger today.'

In a world where Ranger and I are both town, if scum sent me to heaven yesterday and then get a miskill on a non-Ranger player today, they can probably just assume I will send Ranger straight to hell, right?

So why not try to do that?

I'm asking about the 'non ranger' mis kill.

I have no idea!

My main point is trying to figure out why scum would have wanted Aisa in heaven over me.

[Vanderscamp]

Because that "get a miskill on a non-Ranger player today" part seems like a potentially huge step? It seemed pretty likely then and still seems pretty likely that Ranger is the target today. You were calling for her to be snap limmed here and saying that if you were sent to the martyr thread that was your legacy.

Sure, but if Ranger is town, do you think it's better or worse for me or Aisa to be in heaven?

If Ranger is town and we flip her here, I don't know who either of you vote from heaven. Aisa was confused and you... haven't really given any recent scumreads other than Ranger. Still no thoughts there?

I think I would vote Drew if not Ranger.

I don't have any strong scumreads other than Ranger though.

[Bellaphant]

@ranger, does the change of course make Vanders more or less likely to be scum? I forgot they got to -1.

[AurorusVox]

@drew I voted before you or Ranger and then wasn’t here til after the hammer, not sure what I could have done given the natural direction of the flow of time…

@mod I’ll be v/la from now til Monday, I might be able to get on a bit tomorrow evening but definitely won’t be on tonight / Saturday / Sunday

[AurorusVox]

Also drew not sure what I’d have done there, knowing Asia is town now kinda makes it hard to consider it in retrospect. I certainly don’t like you voting Aisa (partly) to try to get me to change either. Were you hoping I’d get back on vanders?

[Doctor Drew]

Also drew not sure what I’d have done there, knowing Asia is town now kinda makes it hard to consider it in retrospect. I certainly don’t like you voting Aisa (partly) to try to get me to change either. Were you hoping I’d get back on vanders?

I was trying to more figure out if you were looking for excuses to not vote Vander, and I was happy switching my vote to Aisa anyways so I wanted to see how you would react.

[Enchant]

I am bored can someone being sent already?

[Aureal]

A few thoughts from some browsing of AV's ISO.

Pretty sure AV is NOT scum with Ranger because of 239 and is probably just town (the opening about Aisa reads pretty towny, are scum going to talk about how they want to read someone, doesn't seem so likely). I just can't see any reason why scum would make an argument directed to their scumbuddy only to have the scumbuddy misintepret it, forcing the original questioner to have to clarify and ask again. Ranger does not look as good for the misinterpretation, though. The original question in 181 and called out to Ranger again in 209 seems pretty clear and yet Ranger somehow digs up 45 and uses it in her response which clearly is not what AV is talking about- he literally quotes the 'freaking out' in 181; and if Ranger only saw 209's question it says Arko putting Oc at e-2 was "earlier in the thread" than the freaking out and 45 clearly is not earlier than the vote in 54.

It's also seeming less likely from this that Oc/Enchant is scum with Arko/Drew, as Oc was the one who triggered Arko's e-2 shenanigans. I could see this sequence as Arko starting to break down under early pressure, then coming back the next day to see feedback in the scum PT that his OMGUS stuff was bad and he unvotes.

I'm thinking Bella is town, though I haven't dug deeper on her yet. Vander/Ranger/Arko makes sense as a team to me. Arko gets pressured early but also seems to have decent support so Ranger defends in over-the-top fashion, trying to get Vander towncred for a heaven vote by bussing Ranger and then hopefully people think Ranger was white-knighting townArko so he has a heaven shot later? The heaven voting is maybe a little weird if so but I think makes enough sense... Drew puts Vander at h-1 and Ranger doesn't hammer, but that could be because obviously Ranger shouldn't want Vander there and maybe Ranger's slot is salvageable once we see Vander was scum, but not if Ranger hammers. It seemed reasonable to wait and figure Bella or I would be amenable to voting Vander. But AV switches to Aisa, Drew votes Aisa to see if that'll get AV back, Ranger obviously can't do anything but vote Aisa, then Bella brings out her Aisa read and Enchant loves hammers.

I'm moving towards voting Ranger but we've got time and she's got stuff to deal with. And I'll keep doing more poking around.

[Vanderscamp]

How can you have Vanderscamp/Ranger/Arko as your team?


It feels pretty unbelievable that you think that, that's probably one of the worst predictions it's possible to have, with the possible exception of something involving OE/Ranger, and probably not even then.


You just ISOed me recently, right?

How do you come to the conclusion that I spend about half of the game shitting on Ranger's Arko read, and then when someone (I don't remember who) asked me why I shouldn't have Arko as super town if I think Ranger is spewing Arko, I actively argue against that line of logic?



If that team "makes sense" to you with all of our imo extremely unlikely scum/scum interactions, wtf team does not make sense?

[Vanderscamp]

Like, I'll allow you talking about how I could be scum with Ranger.

It's not actually within my scum range to do that this extensively, because I don't like bussing in general since I don't think the cred is worth it, but it's possible that you would think that it could be true.


I don't think it's a real thought that you think that THAT is the team.

[Vanderscamp]

Like, for real, how much do you think scumMe would have to play against my wincon for that to be the team?

Even if Ranger is town, Arko is my literal 2nd least likely partner because I have no reason to just incessantly shit on Ranger's Arko read.


I'm not trying to clear myself with these arguments btw, they are true, but I think it's reasonable to doubt me saying that it's true, I could obviously be scum and lying about my meta. That's not the point of what I'm trying to say here.


What I don't buy is that that is Aureal's team, that that combo of players seems actively likely to be the team of three scum.
I could be reading too much into my own meta but it just rings very very false to me.


Like, AV is not scum with Ranger because of 239, but I can be and the team makes sense?
Wtf is that?

[Vanderscamp]

I'm really passionate about this now

I read blood as quite towny but that's out the window after that post

[Aureal]

Ok, lol. Why suddenly so passionate, after I just said I'm moving towards voting Ranger, your big scumread? Shouldn't that make you feel better?

I'm trying to solve here, and I'm not seeing you doing it with only the same ol' one scumread. Even if we are going to vote Ranger here, I want to try to have as much information out there on how people connect to others, particularly if we get it wrong and Aisa needs to try to save things. A task which I wouldn't envy, having to sit around and watch but not be able to interact.

[Ranger]

I don't have any strong scumreads other than Ranger though.

That's a problem.

There's three scum. I asked my question for good reason. If I were scum I'd have scumbuddies. So who are they?

How can you have Vanderscamp/Ranger/Arko as your team? It feels pretty unbelievable that you think that, that's probably one of the worst predictions it's possible to have, with the possible exception of something involving OE/Ranger, and probably not even then.

This is also correct and is also a problem.

What do you make of the callout which makes no sense?

Ok, lol. Why suddenly so passionate, after I just said I'm moving towards voting Ranger, your big scumread? Shouldn't that make you feel better?

A good question.


Let me say as the party you both seem to think is scum; I believe you two aren't scum together, but one of you is certainly scum, pushing two town players as the team.

The key is figuring out which of you it is and then the likely buddies of that player.

[Bellaphant]

@ranger, I asked you a question you may have missed.

[Bellaphant]

@aureal, I don't think my aisa read was a surprise?

[Ranger]

@ranger, I asked you a question you may have missed.

You may have missed this, but I've been reconsidering my Vander read from as early as the end of Hell 1. I'm still figuring my read out on Vander.

[Alianna]

~•~