large normal 243: lindOVER

[curiouskarmadog]

First game in nearly 10 years. The meta's still to random vote at the start of day 1 I assume?

You beat me...My last game was in 2016.

vote: Bub Bidderskins

for showing me up.....

[curiouskarmadog]

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

[curiouskarmadog]

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Fair enough, but just out of curiosity, why are you more suspicious of Kawaii than Hsu?

my gut response is "that is where you put your "finger" versus a vote". Its a way to get credit for something without doing the hard work. That being said...this is Day 1 and I see you getting conversation started, so it could be probably nothing. ALSO, I just did the same thing.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

I dont think it was ever in style.

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Why vote him over me if you're "sold"?

LOL.....

what exactly do you think his point was there? break it down what YOU think the point is please.

[curiouskarmadog]

I vote Kowahbunga for town leader.

(attempt to make friends)

then

(tells some jokes)

fun. clearly cant be scum

there should be a sarcasm font.

[curiouskarmadog]

also lets get this wagon started...

more votes on me please, lets get an early wagon started for giggles and see what happens.

this Day 1 fluff business is done. The true hunting of scum happens on the wagons!!!!

[curiouskarmadog]

Hu Tao, I had the below question for you that you ignored please answer.
Also, why did you choice not to answer the question the first time?

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Why vote him over me if you're "sold"?

LOL.....

what exactly do you think his point was there? break it down what YOU think the point is please.

Bub,

Do you think avoiding a direct question is scummy or a townie action?

Did you thoroughly read (try to find scum) when you said the below?

I'm getting a mild townie read from Hsu but I'm not 100%. They didn't panic or immediately deflect when under some mild pressure, but did use it as opportunity to ask questions. For example, I read their post #59 questioning curiouskarmadog's vote for Kawaii over Hsu as a good faith attempt to scumhunt and not a panic deflection. Still early and I'm not married to this read, but for now in the town pile.

So instead of him looking scummy to you, you vote me?

In your “you are not scum hunting post”

You completely leave off my question to Hu Tao, why?

IN post 96 (that you did post), I am highlighting to common scum tactics there. Waiting for Andante to address.

also

unvote

[curiouskarmadog]

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

I dont think it was ever in style.

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Why vote him over me if you're "sold"?

LOL.....

what exactly do you think his point was there? break it down what YOU think the point is please.

You are basically saying you're sold on his cases but voted the one he has a scumread on that he didn't vote. Because you think it could he a soft bus? But if you think that why would you agree with the cases in the first place. I think you should be answering it, not having others answer for you.

He said "I think X are Y" are scummy. I voted Y. You ask "why did you vote X over Y". Which was explained when I voted. Your next question was "But if you think that why would you agree with the cases in the first place." which essentially is saying.."if you think Y is scummy, why would you agree with X and Y are scummy". which is a straight out silly question.

Your question(s) doesnt make any sense and feels fluffy. What I was asking YOU is explain what YOU thought his point was. I am trying to figure out if you actually dont understand what he was saying or you are acting like you dont understand.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm glad with curious votes. I think they are the most suspicious still. No updates to my reads. I do think someone who was on my wagon is likely scum trying to put a vote down, but I can't say that is all for certain

Hu Tao (2):

ballpointpen, Bub Bidderskins

Really like who?

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

bub noting that karma's explanation for voting kawaii was effectively bullshit is the most villager-y thing he's done all game, and karma's chances of being wolf were raised by a solid 17% because of that

seem legit, cant argue math.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

I don't have many

reads

, but this is just "I'm pushing a low poster cause I can" and it's "here's a push, but I can't push too much just cause there's nothing for the slot, but if I shade her enough, I can get votes there"

sorry, only enough room for 1 dog in this town.

is that what I said? Where did I remotely indicate I thought you were a low poster? Also compared to who? Are you a low poster? Did I indicate I thought you were a low poster OR did I note that you only tried to make friends and told a joke to get people to like you. Did I even vote you in that post? Also, interesting phrasing there. "reads". Who uses reads? Scum just vote and make up a reasons. They dont use "reads" because they know who scum is.

this reeks of someone trying to come up with a reason to join a wagon, but just makes stuff up. Also slight slip.

VOTE: Vote Andante

also still waiting on Bub to answer my question.

after that, will give a full scum list.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, I like this post. This feels authentic. Question though, why werent you curious WHY KT didnt like the Greetings push? This post seems like you are more angry that someone would question you versus understanding the WHY behind the thing. Like we are in Day one, WHY did KT not only not like your "push" but single that out to talk about? Your initial issue should have been with that. At any rate, still feels town.

ALSO, it is kind of cute you two arguing with each while you are voting together. I dont think this is a theater....but it did make me giggle.

I don't like Kowah's push on Greeting.

Well you should. They literally slipped and called me town which is impossible for any town player to know on D1. Its not, however, impossible for scum to know on D1.

????

Do you not know that "X is town" is basically just a way to say "I have a strong TR on X"?

Yeah it wasn't said like that at all. Post 48 - "Both town and mafia can make contentless posts for no reason or for whatever reason really.

It is a common mistake for town

to assume that every post has intention."

That was in response to my 44. "I feel like everything is alignment indicative. Every post is made with intentions. Its not up to the poster to express this, but up to the player-base to interpret."

They did not just simply say "Kowah is town" they responded and said what I said "is a common mistake for town" that's not a town read. That's not a guess. That was an attempt to discredit my opinion on the game followed by a them blatantly mentioning what my alignment is. This does not come from a town POV.

Also, why don't you actually read the game before you come in here and discredit what I've been doing? What gives you the confidence to come in here, tell me you don't like my push on Greeting, and then openly prove you haven't even looked at it?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not quite sure I'm getting your line of suspicion on Andante at the moment.

He came into the game....trying to make friends...making some jokes (IMO) Anything this is day 1...so I just noted it and moved on.

THEN his only contribution to the game is to attack me for not liking this play so far and making a note of it.

He only votes me ONCE the wagon gets going with a made up reason that doesnt make any sense.

What do you think of this reason to vote me?

[curiouskarmadog]

Quick skim of Curious Karma's ISO would move them into slight scumlean for me at the moment. I could be on the wrong track but their posts don't feel like they're coming from a town mindset so far.

LOL, well you covered all of your bases then didnt you? "Im leaning scum, but could be wrong" What post in particular do you feel is not coming from a town mindset?

If I am leaning scum in your opinion, why not vote me? I am not close to being hammered. And so much information could come out of a little pressure.

[curiouskarmadog]

Man I know it’s only 8 pages but given how long the posts in last two pages looked there must be some sort of 1v1 going on

welcome.

did you read them or just skimmed?

if you did, who is the 1v1 and what are your thoughts on those stances.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not quite sure I'm getting your line of suspicion on Andante at the moment.

He came into the game....trying to make friends...making some jokes (IMO) Anything this is day 1...so I just noted it and moved on.

THEN his only contribution to the game is to attack me for not liking this play so far and making a note of it.

He only votes me ONCE the wagon gets going with a made up reason that doesnt make any sense.

What do you think of this reason to vote me?

Andante's playstyle so far feels pretty typical for them and I've seen it come from town Andante in previous games.

You don't have to agree with it but I don't think Andante's reason for suspecting you is particularly awful - they think your scumread is unnaturally weak and don't feel it's necessarily a genuine read coming from town. From experience as well I know Andante's suspected me in the past when I was town voting for them, I think they tend to suspect players who scumread them when they're town as a general rule unless the read is really strong.

I think the fact they're admitting they don't have too many reads at this point feels natural in a townie way, they're willing to admit to weaknesses in their play at this stage in a way scum sometimes aren't.

so the answer is (mostly) just meta. in your opinion, would scum also fall back on "I dont have many reads, so I just join the biggest wagon"?

also what about my last question?

[curiouskarmadog]

I bet I can so many people angry by claiming that I townread ckd.

someone has got to eventually. BUT I am curious WHY. In my opinion as we get closer to the resolution (lynch or counterwagon) I imagine at least one scum will come to my defense to get some town cred upon my reveal. I dont feel like we are in that stage yet, BUT I am curious WHY you feel I am town.

mod: I remember reading you dont like the word "lynch" what is the preferred alternative?

[curiouskarmadog]

Quick skim of Curious Karma's ISO would move them into slight scumlean for me at the moment. I could be on the wrong track but their posts don't feel like they're coming from a town mindset so far.

LOL, well you covered all of your bases then didnt you? "Im leaning scum, but could be wrong" What post in particular do you feel is not coming from a town mindset?

If I am leaning scum in your opinion, why not vote me? I am not close to being hammered. And so much information could come out of a little pressure.

I play this way a lot. I'll admit when I'm uncertain and I'm often uncertain early game. Never feel the need to go all-out with a read as town because to do so wouldn't reflect how I'm thinking.

I don't tend to vote heavily early game as a general rule and I'd have Ballpoint down as scummier than you anyway.

Post 97 pinged me a little because the joking attempt to get a wagon on you feels really forced - as is your hint now I should vote for you. You clearly don't think you should be read as scum so why do you want attention to be wasted on you? It feels like a failed attempt at wanting to look townie by acting as if you're cool with people voting for you. It doesn't reflect how you're approaching the game.

I don't think Andante is particularly scummy and feel like your push there is pretty weak.

Noted...and thank you for your answers.

so telling people to vote me is not from a town mindset? hmmmm Is it a scum mindset then? Or just a null? In my day I played this a lot. And the MOST information gathered is from the wagons...why they formed...why they failed or succeeded. who was on it and why they stated they joined it, who defended it. I want to get that started. If I make it through this wagon or not, I still win as town if people LEARN FROM IT

also note: as a wolf, I would say all of the above as well. But truth is still truth, wagon is where the true scum hunting can be found.

[curiouskarmadog]

also side note: I am out of town 03/30 until 04/02 (might be able to post on the 2nd). Feel free to mark your calendars accordingly.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am having... A Thought Process

@ckd- why did you call for a wagon on yourself as opposed to someone else?

I have one of those posting/playing styles that gets a lot of action (wagons/votes) no matter my alignment. Dont know why...

AT ANY RATE, felt like my wagon would be the easiest to get started. Would I prefer a different one? yep....but look at the info mine as already reaped.

[curiouskarmadog]

What question?

speaking of honest scum hunting. you went through my posts (I assumed you did, because you are scum hunting right?) and didnt see a question directed at you?

How do you know I am "flailing" if you didnt ready all my post. Im confused. (hint post 136)

[curiouskarmadog]

Catching up on 5 pages,

for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.

in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?

and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.

your BS narrative.

Ive done MORE scum hunting here than half of the people here. Yet you want to state I "refuse to do actual work"....more BS.

more on.

ckd sounds really edgy but it turns out to just be the capitalization
funny tactic to HIGHLIGHT certain words more than others

its my STYLE baby, its mine style.

side note: in one game, I did it to bury a claim, then liked it so much I did it as scum to bury a fake claim.

I am not doing EITHER here.

There's definitely at least one scum in: {

KittyTacky

,

NJAC

,

Glitch

}. I'll see in the postgame if my instincts were right.

curious....thoughts on Bub and Andante....and if you are feeling saucy Hu Tao.


still reading, but want to avoid huge walls.

[curiouskarmadog]

like, one of my first actual posts back, dog was picking me to SR solely cause I wasn't around to defend myself, yet I don't think any of yall realized that? so I show up, call it out, you vote me? feels like a really weak reason to sr me

I did what now?

like, I'm literally the 2nd most popular SR. WHAT HAVE I EVEN DONE THIS GAME TO BE A TOP SR FOR?

I got one answer

like, I haven't done... anything?

but moving on.

like, I haven't done... anything? great work yall! I think we lim the slot with nothing, we watch them flip town, then just shrug it off tomorrow. sounds like a real solid plan.

versus my sr on karma dog (which I saw someone say was so fake) where karma was very clearly going after me with the thought I was an easy lim, aren't scum only looking for the easy lims here? giant 17p game, "heyyy let's just pick off town, 1 by 1" like, THERE'S NOTHING GENUINELY SCUMMY ABOUT MY POSTS. I can see the "oh frozen scum" argument, but like, that's literally not even the argument against me

who said your SR was fake? did you question them about it? who do THEY think is scummy? I was going after you because I thought you were easy? WHERE? If you really believe that, what post{s} led you to believe that.

I know you "feel" like I am scum, do you have other reads? and what was your case against me again? I have never once mentioned I thought you were low poster, but that is the main point of your case. I mean you just said it again...you were "easy". What post made you come up with this case to vote me? WHERE

[curiouskarmadog]

The confusing thing to me now is that I scum read Curious for their ISO. But two of my three other scum reads are on him. Which makes me feel less confident in him being scum now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Greeting

I'm going back here.

why am(was) I scum read? who are your other reads? Why wouldnt they be bussing me? As of this change of vote my wagon was Hu Tao, Bub Bidderskins, KittyTacky, Andante, Kowahbunga

but you vote greeting? So if you are not voting the other two scum reads, why are you voting greeting. none of this makes any sense.

man..

man I had you in my town pile before this post

[curiouskarmadog]

Still think it's CKD. The case makes sense and they're doing a poor job defending themself.

whats that case again?

[curiouskarmadog]

sooo, here is the situation...I am leaving tomorrow and will be gone until Sunday night.

Day 1 ends on Sunday.

I might be able to check in tonight...maybe.

I would hate it if I was hammered and didnt get a chance to claim.

so here it goes, I am not vanilla town. OOOOOHHHH NOOOO!!!

that being said, my role (if you want to call it that) isnt very helpful, some might even say it would be a distraction. So...if the wagon does swell on me while I am away, it wont hurt you guys much.

now you will be losing my excellent scum hunting ability, but you wont be killing power.

[curiouskarmadog]

Softclaiming a vague power-role is absolutely the scummiest possible reaction to building pressure.

At this point I'm locked in on the CKD wagon.

yeah I am soft claiming....if the definition of a power role is non-vanilla, then yeah, I am a "power role".

ALSO this isnt in reaction to the wagon, it is a reaction to me leaving for the rest of the week. A full claim will not help town at all. If you want to find out what I am, you will have to kill me tonight.

[curiouskarmadog]

It doesn't sound like ckd is claiming a role that's gonna get cc'd tho

this is true. this will not be countered. I mean...I am not 100% sure there is not another role like mine, but balance wise...I dont think so.

[curiouskarmadog]

Softclaiming a vague power-role is absolutely the scummiest possible reaction to building pressure.

At this point I'm locked in on the CKD wagon.

yeah I am soft claiming....if the definition of a power role is non-vanilla, then yeah, I am a "power role".

ALSO this isnt in reaction to the wagon, it is a reaction to me leaving for the rest of the week.

A full claim will not help town at all.

If you want to find out what I am, you will have to kill me tonight.

Can you explain why not? If you have a strong role then it may be more helpful for us to know and gives a better indication you are indeed town.

I really cant without basically claiming. you will have to believe me or not, we can discuss game theory after this is all over.

[curiouskarmadog]

UGH, messed up the above quotes...MOD can you fix please. thanks.

[curiouskarmadog]

for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.

in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?

and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.

Sorry about the wallposting.

I didn't cherry pick -- I picked posts that were representative. Your question to Hsu doesn't go against the narrative, in fact it exemplifies it. You asked Hsu a banal and vague question that's unlikely to actually advance the game state. But you did it to make it look like you were scumhunting so you could point to it if and when accused of not scumhunting.

Look back at my post, I actually think I did myself a disservice by not quoting your question to Hsu in post #95 because it would have made my point stronger. It fed into my vibes that you were posting stuff that wans't meaningfully scumhunting but in the moment I was posting the other examples sprung more easily to mind.

I also did answer your question to me in post #242 but I guess you didn't like/notice my answer.

side note, I dont care about wall texts...I am usually called out for them. I just didnt want to add to the post.

it looked as if you cherry picked. At this point, I really dont know if you are scum or just laser focused on a wrong read. So we all know you are set on me being scum....what are your other Scum reads?

[curiouskarmadog]

Andante, Kawaii, ballpoint, and Bub are in my townie basket.

Hey look friends!! I made it to the townie basket!!! Yall proud of me? XD
I am proud of me too!!!

yay more jokes...more friends. no content.

[curiouskarmadog]

my thoughts on the karma dog claim, they can't full claim right now without that being scummy af,

and the way they've been playing, doesn't seem to me like they have actually been trying to push a sr,

like with the knowledge they're gone rest of d1, the way they're playing doesn't seem to line up with what I think town would do, cause it seems more that karma dog doesn't care who the lim even is, and the "here's a soft claim" is cause the wagon is basically non existent, can't commit to a hard claim, and this?? like, just go "X is my top sr, lim X" and that's like going "hey look! shiny thing!!!" this is day 1 of a 17p game. "Hey guys I'm busy, won't be here again till d2" literally all you need to say, then we go "ok cool, can vote elsewhere" it's not like there's 1 scum alive.

idk, I don't like the "here's my claim" thing, that is far from what I would do there as town

really? I havent pushed a scum read?

none at all?

also (3rd) request...can you post the post where I said you were a low poster? You keep painting yourself as an easy target...why? what has made you an easy target?

[curiouskarmadog]

okay this unfortunately is my last check in I think...

if I do make it to the night and we have a doc, please dont waste a protection on me.

if I die, today or tonight, I would be interested in a conversation on if I SHOULD have fully claimed...or soft claimed.

leaning scum on the following.

Andante,

and then Bub, and to some extent Hu Tao still (all three on my wagon, sooo I question my subjectivity).....also, as much as I want to like Guy in a freezer, something is not sitting well. but have no clue what.

[curiouskarmadog]

im back will catch up tonight....holy crap 15 pages

[curiouskarmadog]

reading now..

beetlejuice reference is referring to saying someone's (a lurker) name and then they appear?

[curiouskarmadog]

not done, lightly skimming to get the gist, then will go back and do a deeper dive tomorrow. After the two initial serious wagons everything else have felt like the "tipping my toe in to see how it feels or what others think about it" pop up wagons. a swell of a couple votes, no real reason. thats kind of day one I guess.

[curiouskarmadog]

also going to

UNVOTE

for now.

reading this gist, makes me think Bub is scum, but not sure if that is my read or just a defensive reaction to him being on my wagon.

Ill vote tomorrow. and provide my current SRs.

[curiouskarmadog]

MOD: is there anyway on the first page you can show WHO replaced WHO?

[curiouskarmadog]

sorry for the delay...slammed at work (because I was gone). I will get to this.

(prod dodge)

[curiouskarmadog]

This is more going to be notes for me, but also being transparent with thoughts.
My last meanful post was 409 (page 17)…jesus we are now at 57

If I need to reference a thing, ill just post the post number. Again just a reference for me, but feel free to follow up.

Post number (page)
At this point I am leading wagon
412(17)- GuyInFreezer (GIF), doesn’t SR me.
417(17)-Bub, suspicion for Ballpoint, Stargazer and Hu
425(18)-GIF is “committed to defending me” (doesn’t need to be said, he looks good when I flip town?)
437(18)- do not like Kowah’s answer to my question, still doesn’t make sense…looks scummy
462(19)KT thinks I am scum, no real reason why.
477(20) Ball thinks Malcom is scummy, because Malcom thinks Ball is scummy, but doesn’t do anything about it…feels town.
483(20) Hu thinks Greeting is scum, questions Kowah’s reads
(20) wagon on Sky builds.
494(20) Bub thinks Sky is also scummy, but doesn’t like the wagon….but why (someone asks the same later)? I hate this post.
(21) I don’t like ANY of Kawaii’s posts on this page (consulting 1st page, he is later replaced by Venmar)
(22)..ugh, I am kind of softening on my scumread on Andante. Not sure why or why that bothers me
556 (23) GIF has Bub and Kowah in their town pile. I REALLY disagree with those reads
583 (24) SaveTheDragon (STD), just comes in and votes, doesn’t offer anything..no one mentions.
(24) wagon on NJAC builds
604 (25) Bub unvotes me, but doesn’t revote (Hu) because reasons
619 (25) Hu complains that people think he is a lurker but has the 5th most posts. doesn’t mentions that most of his posts are like a word long…this made me laugh/roll my eyes.
622(25) Hu votes me.
623-624 (25) Ceph doesn’t especially want to kill Hu, Bub ask why voting (decent question)
671 (27) Bub votes Hu…shocked, thought he was all talk.
(28) Hu throwing votes on whatever wagon has protentional to challenge their. Null read just noting.
(29) STD posts content…kind of
(29) NJAC -3..then immediately goes to -4 (andante)
(30) bunch of random no content votes from Sky, Andante, Hu, Kowah..yuck
(31) Enchant enters the game with jokes, but no content.
780 (32), I think Hu is scummy
794 (32) NJAC, is supposed to be catching up, but makes a weak attempt to scum hunt, nullread but noted. Note, asked Hu a question.
799 (32) NJAC says that Hu is a town read for them ?!?!?
(33) no longer think Hu and Bub are scum together. But still reading scum on both….so???? Wrong about one of them.
810 (33) Im on NJAC town pile…but not reasons.
(33) I don’t like how NJAC asked Hu question, but never followed up when Hu didn’t answer.
812 (33) NJAC gives GIF townie points…a bunch of people town, but who is scum?
(34) I JUST DON’T LIKE HU
832 (34) I post, only have 15 pages to read…I was so innocent then.
841(34) NJAC thinks greeting scum, later also Ceph
848(34) WTF, Bub makes a post I actually agree with
849 (34) NJAC urges people to vote Ceph, but leaves their vote on Greeting


Okay breaking this up. Typing part two now (as I read).

[curiouskarmadog]

Part two of catch up

853(35) NJAC wants to know Andante’s read on Greeting and Ceph, now that seems like scum hunting. (note, Ad answers and NJAC follows up)
876 (36)…my post is funny, reading gist, Bub looked scummy…now read more thoroughly…not as much…more of a null read, or slightly leaning scum.
877(36) Venmar replaces Kawaii.
880(36) Ceph does like any wagon, which wagons do they want?
887(36) seriously WTF, Bub asks the same question.
889(36) Venmar first post, reads on all players. Im not in the read (he only read pg 20). Well that makes me sad. Feel like they should have read whole game.
905(37) Ven makes me laugh here.
909(37) GIF “wild idea” Hu is town….dont like this post for several reasons.
(38) NJAC REALLY wants to know everyone reads on Greeting and Ceph. I like these posts
(38) I don’t like Enchants contributions AT ALL
962 (39) Andante back on me…welcome back.
973(40)annnnnd Hu back as well. Lol
991 (40) well the gang is all here, Bub stops voting Hu to join Hu voting me.
1002 (41) Andante back on Hu.
1012 (41) Kowah feels Hu is town, feels Hu has been consistent. With what?
(41) within a span of a minute GIF and Hu vote Adante
1069 (43) bub back to Hu, Bub do you think that Hu is bussing me then?
1137 (46) Andante -3
(46) Glitch was a null read, Enchant feels scummy
(47) Hu unvotes Andante, Ven puts back to -3
(47) like Ven’s read on Bub.
1170(47) Malcom avoids another prod. I am not opposed to this lurker wagon
1175 (48) hu says he doesn’t jump on popular wagon..correction doesn’t JUST jump on popular wagons…seems like a silly post.
1203 (49) Hu votes an unpopular wagon…see?!?!?!?!?!? Not all popular
(49) a ceph wagon deverlops
1233 (50), ceph self votes….ugh…I hate that. You think someone who has been playing since 2006 wouldn’t do that….sad
(50) ceph self implodes, and posts a bunch of sad sacking posts. Ugh. (if you end up being scum, this was a f-ing lame stunt and you should feel embarrassed)(actually as town you should feel embarrassed too)
(51)Sky wagon taking off.
1267 (51) GIF town read Sky….why?
1292 (52) Hu vote ven??? Another bad vote.
1326 (54) Andante votes Malcom….I could get behind that wagon too…well damn, later votes Sky
1366 (55) sky is bringing nothing to this game, null read, also this game is full of active lurkers. Seems like the only case against Sky is that they are lurking.
1399 (56)I like Ven, but don’t agree that Malcom is definitely town.
(56) Eiralox replaces ball.

okay caught up...jesus..next post vote and SR reads.

[curiouskarmadog]

more jokes...fun

[curiouskarmadog]

A ton of people pinged my radar. I mean hell, I have more scum reads that I have town.

After that read, in no particular order, Kowah, Enchant, Bub, Hu, and GIF. But then you have active lurkers like Malcolm and KT, who dont do much and I am leaning scum, but I feel like if they were scum...they would "find a reason" to vote at least ONE of the active wagons. at any rate, those 5 cant ALL be scum.

.....(thinking)...

I going to put my vote here

Vote GuyInFreezer

he just feels scummy to me. I would also be down for a wagon on any of the other 4.

somebody tell me WHY GIF is town...go.

[curiouskarmadog]

Thx I'm always up for a good insult

wait, was the directed at me? You thought that was an insult? you WERE sad sacking. Voting yourself and throwing a tantrum. I mean..come on.

[curiouskarmadog]

Curious you may not be my top scumread anymore. Good work

why?

[curiouskarmadog]

Thx I'm always up for a good insult

wait, was the directed at me? You thought that was an insult? you WERE sad sacking. Voting yourself and throwing a tantrum. I mean..come on.

Thanks, doubling down is usually a good response when someone says they were hurt

look, sorry if your feelings are genuinely hurt. But your reaction to a little pressure does not match the years of experience you have. So it is hard to take that at face value. The im going to take my ball and go home stance was silly and not helpful. I stand by what I said, if you flip scum, you should be embarrassed how you garnered town cred. For me, that is what you did. I had a null read on your until that. Then you just appeared like a sad sacking town.

[curiouskarmadog]

Maybe just shut up about it instead of banging on

thats fair.

[curiouskarmadog]

moving on...

Curious you may not be my top scumread anymore. Good work

why?

I'm trying to pocket you. Is it working? Can you vote one of the 2 wagons? Your vote is doing nothing to end the day

flash wagon on Bub?

[curiouskarmadog]

on come?!?! the two people I have SR on, are agreeing with me?!?! ugh...

[curiouskarmadog]

Thx I'm always up for a good insult

wait, was the directed at me? You thought that was an insult? you WERE sad sacking. Voting yourself and throwing a tantrum. I mean..come on.

Thanks, doubling down is usually a good response when someone says they were hurt

look, sorry if your feelings are genuinely hurt. But your reaction to a little pressure does not match the years of experience you have. So it is hard to take that at face value. The im going to take my ball and go home stance was silly and not helpful. I stand by what I said, if you flip scum, you should be embarrassed how you garnered town cred. For me, that is what you did. I had a null read on your until that. Then you just appeared like a sad sacking town.

100% agreed with this btw

lets just drop it, in case it isnt a act...move on.

[curiouskarmadog]

on come?!?! the two people I have SR on, are agreeing with me?!?! ugh...

This post ruined all town cred you gained. Unfortunate.

Well I guess I had a good run.

[curiouskarmadog]

replacing cephrir

jesus..

[curiouskarmadog]

What are people’s reads on Bud?

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

if the GIF wagon isnt going to happen.

I would also join the Hu and Enchant wagons, but this would be a better one. I think at this point, this flip will tell more info than the other two. I am also greedily hoping for a scum flip so to buy myself some needed town cred.

[curiouskarmadog]

Curious’ claim sucked. Never trust a day 1 softie like that. It could be true, it just sucked, and let’s them hide for a little bit behind it.

I’ll trust a VT claim Day 1 over a softie any day.

Im not going to claim what I am not....ANNNND I have already stated that killing me wouldnt wreck the town. SO does my claim suck or does my role? I guess this is one of those, "I told you so...haha I was right and you were wrong" situations...but also, ill be dead. so there is that.

[curiouskarmadog]

I’m almost willing to go Curious today because of the softie.

But yeah, Bud pinged my scum tinglings.

in this net of two you are throwing....(and this is a serious question) are Bub and myself both scum? If the answer is some version of "NO" then YES you should

lynch

(something about a machine) one of us. I think a lot of information could be garnered from our flips actually. I mean, look you have already laid the ground work to go after one of us tomorrow, why not do it now. There are more than enough people here who have expressed interest in my wagon. And I imagine scum will use the length of the game as a guise to "vote X because the game is going to long".

That reminds, Ive been a 100 page D1 game. This is nothing. It is a large game with people you like to have one word posts. Get over (to all) it or replace out, but leaning on "I just want this day to end so I dont care" is a cop out....and scum will DEFINITELY be saying this at the end.

[curiouskarmadog]

also just a note on theory here.

being over defensive is not scummy. Everything single person here knows it or at least should know it. I mean that is the lane I drive in all games, no matter the alignment.

When I read someone saying "well X is being over defensive" like on this page. I think to myself "who cares". First of all it is easy to say that, but it actually doesnt mean anything. If the comment in question was ACTUALLY over defensive (most time it isnt really) all it means is that the person is having an "emotional" reaction to being attacked. Scum and town do this. Anyway, this post isnt helping the length of this game at all and I guess should be posted somewhere else. But just note, when people say that here, it always raises an eyebrow for me.

[curiouskarmadog]

I’m almost willing to go Curious today because of the softie.

But yeah, Bud pinged my scum tinglings.

in this net of two you are throwing....(and this is a serious question) are Bub and myself both scum? If the answer is some version of "NO" then YES you should

lynch

(something about a machine) one of us. I think a lot of information could be garnered from our flips actually. I mean, look you have already laid the ground work to go after one of us tomorrow, why not do it now. There are more than enough people here who have expressed interest in my wagon. And I imagine scum will use the length of the game as a guise to "vote X because the game is going to long".

That reminds, Ive been a 100 page D1 game. This is nothing. It is a large game with people you like to have one word posts. Get over (to all) it or replace out, but leaning on "I just want this day to end so I dont care" is a cop out....and scum will DEFINITELY be saying this at the end.

Stinky stinky. It's not about just the pagecount, the game has been going on for almost 3 weeks now and could go on longer as Ceph is now slated to probably get replaced too. I think at a certain point when a day has been dragged on for as long as this one has, the focus gets lost in all the noise and fatigue. I think scum would be the ones mostly interested in prolonging the day and avoiding a consensus since keeping town confused and divided is ultimately more useful than a cheap 'lim.

Also I don't think there is anything that Flavor said that'd indicate both you and Bub HAD

to be scum together and it's weird to me you went straight to theorizing that. Painting the situation as a black and white one that seemingly makes it seem like the choice is either you or Bub just feels like a sussy defense aimed at getting you at least into N1.

He said..in the same post, we were both scummy. I am asking him if he thought we were scum together. Where did I say anything else?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'd be down on a flash wagon on Bub if it means we end this goddman day.

garbage post.

WHOOOOOO

Fuck sorry I missed your question because it was lost in all the garbage 1-sentence posts.

LOL...oh you.

[curiouskarmadog]

I forgot how jaded I get playing games after 9 years of being on site. Add up my 2 main accounts, I might have the highest post count of all time. Not sure if that's correct, though. stoned thoughts.

is this a job interview, why you giving us a resume?

[curiouskarmadog]

wow, catching up on 14 pages.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'd say a large majority of scum are in the people being silent about my wagon...

Malcolm, Skygazer, CuriousKarmaDog...

Ive given my opinion of you? leaning town. That being said, I understand your wagon. I have also commented that I feel like scum will jump on it (before -1) saying "I just want this day to end". I have ALSO said I think other wagons would give more information. Now if you flip scum, Ill look bad I am sure, but that is where I am at.

[curiouskarmadog]

Lots of talk on vigging page 69. Please dont waste a vig on me tonight.

(also, I know that just makes me a vig target, but have to get that out there anyway.).

[curiouskarmadog]

Curious and Malcolm are my strongest SRs

thats cute.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont like either of the leading wagons. if i HAD to choose, I would go Sky (leaning more scum between the two, but dont think either is that scummy at this point). I think a Bub death would be great. lets do that?

[curiouskarmadog]

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: Eiralox
I think we could do this

another reason I dont feel like Andante is scum, because we are close to the end and they arent voting their competing wagon....

[curiouskarmadog]

caught up

im also a Vt....or at least I wish I was.

Vote: kitty

add Kowah and Malcolm, to the pile of people I would also jump on a wagon for.

[curiouskarmadog]

I started the company, i don’t need to interview

solid answer

[curiouskarmadog]

I got visited by an announcing Jailkeeper tonight. Not sure why they would want to visit a Mason, but okay.

this is a strange statement. Why not visit a "claimed" mason? Also there wasnt a death last night right? Like shouldnt you be more...thankful?

[curiouskarmadog]

at any rate, good day all around.

going to reread KT wagon and posting.

still feeling a bub wagon, but want to reread first.

[curiouskarmadog]

also KT was bulletproof? so maybe we do have a vig? Shame on you for not culling someone (you thought was) scummy out last night? Unless you tried. If so, I told you not to target me.

[curiouskarmadog]

also KT was bulletproof? so maybe we do have a vig? Shame on you for not culling someone (you thought was) scummy out last night? Unless you tried. If so, I told you not to target me.

actually I just reread my role....vig COULD have killed me. disregard, nothing to see here.

[curiouskarmadog]

FL my issue with you just declaring as much towncred as you are and it looks like you’re gonna repeat what you did yesterday with this death tunnel, is that as soon as I claimed VT, you were done with it… there were plenty of chances before my claim that would’ve been a good chance to unvote, but as soon as i claimed VT? “ok new wagon time” is essentially what happened. Enchant and Hu Tao are 2 people I never want voted out d2

Maybe he believed your claim and didnt want to lynch you.

[curiouskarmadog]

also KT was bulletproof? so maybe we do have a vig? Shame on you for not culling someone (you thought was) scummy out last night? Unless you tried. If so, I told you not to target me.

actually I just reread my role....vig COULD have killed me. disregard, nothing to see here.

again, another day of you and your role talk… why even keep talking about your role? what about looking for scum instead…

Settle down...I just said I need to reread. but since I have your ear. What is your stance today on Bub? Malcom?....and well myself?

[curiouskarmadog]

Still think it's CKD. The case makes sense and they're doing a poor job defending themself.

whats that case again?

AHH, I accidentally double posted!

curiouskarmadog

This is who I think is most scummy at the moment.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Why? None of their posts have seriously moved towards scumhunting. In fact, to the extent that they've expressed theories on how to scumhunt, they've done the opposite -- or even worse -- not followed through on what they promised/gave the illusion of doing. First:

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Earlier I asked why Kawaii and not Hsu? If they believed me, why not vote for Hsu? Sure it's early and essentially a random vote, but I asked for explanation directly in post #39 and got crickets. Like, the whole idea of starting a flimsy wagon at the beginning was to generate some conversation about what scummy behavior is...but there's no effort to actually discuss that behavior.

Second...

I vote Kowahbunga for town leader.

(attempt to make friends)

then

(tells some jokes)

fun. clearly cant be scum

there should be a sarcasm font.

Making some vague allusions to the idea that Andate is scummy with no follow-up or serious pursuit. Just trying to sow generally mistrust on people in low-cost ways is scummy. This makes me think Andate is town -- conditional on curiouskarmakitty being scum -- because this is way too weak to be a bus. Also, curiouskarmakitty themselves said that fingers of suspician are cheap because it's a way to get credit for suspecting folks without doing the work...but here they are doing something very similar. I know they were intentionally hypocritcal earlier for a laugh (I don't read that as scummy) but this seems actually hypocritcal in a way that would be beneficial for scum.

also lets get this wagon started...

more votes on me please, lets get an early wagon started for giggles and see what happens.

this Day 1 fluff business is done. The true hunting of scum happens on the wagons!!!!

The wagon's already going my friend. Maybe try actually scumhunting instead of saying that you're going to do it.

I'm happy with my vote.

When I see a case that i think makes sense I usually just sheep it.

As much as I would love to get ole Bub D2....I find it hard to believe that scum would lean on a partner's case to kill a townie this blatantly.

[curiouskarmadog]

Oh shit Kitty's iso is bad y'all. Cheaply jumping onto the shitty glitch wagon and also cheaply jumping onto the shitty skygazer wagon.

VOTE: kitty

Still think Andante's more likely to be scum unless there was something in the last 20 pages that indicated she's townie that my eyes glazed over because there's only so many 1 sentence fluff posts I can take before it all gets re-routed into the garbabge dump section of my brain.

Kitty's iso is legitimately worse than greeting's though. Greeting's play has not been great as they slid on the shitty skygazer wagon, but their play is more plausibly read as disengaged/limited time rather than fluff posting.

HOWEVER, quick question Bub, when declaring that KT's iso was scummy, why did you feel that way? Was it just KT jumping on Sky and Glitch wagons?

[curiouskarmadog]

did greeting claim mason with anyone? i wanna do that thing where u make the votes different colors

"I am asking a question that I could easily look up for myself, but hey it looks like I am doing something and not lurking".

[curiouskarmadog]

HA!

bub is hard town imo

I can reassess on bub and

I don't remember much of his posting now,

other than I liked the way he was pushing carmadog and bbp early. I also felt when doing a proper re-read of the game,

you went from hard town to I dont remember much of his posting. That was a quick pivot. Also which part of the push on me did you like exactly? Like the part where he said I wasnt scum hunting and conveniently leaving out the posts where I was doing just that.

[curiouskarmadog]

so cute Bub.....caught up, but question not answered.

Oh shit Kitty's iso is bad y'all. Cheaply jumping onto the shitty glitch wagon and also cheaply jumping onto the shitty skygazer wagon.

VOTE: kitty

Still think Andante's more likely to be scum unless there was something in the last 20 pages that indicated she's townie that my eyes glazed over because there's only so many 1 sentence fluff posts I can take before it all gets re-routed into the garbabge dump section of my brain.

Kitty's iso is legitimately worse than greeting's though. Greeting's play has not been great as they slid on the shitty skygazer wagon, but their play is more plausibly read as disengaged/limited time rather than fluff posting.

HOWEVER, quick question Bub, when declaring that KT's iso was scummy, why did you feel that way? Was it just KT jumping on Sky and Glitch wagons?

[curiouskarmadog]

All I'll say for now is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action

VOTE: Venmar

Gut feeling

dont have to tell me twice.

Vote Venmar

[curiouskarmadog]

Bub, I am struggling with your alignment. I cant tell if your obsession with me is coming from a place of misguided town or focused scum. I cant see how after the events of yesterday you STILL "think" I am scum. My gut says your scum, but KT reposting your entire "case" against me as WHY they were voting me seems unlikely as a partner. Now...maybe they arent good playing scum, but it just seems unlikely. On the otherhand, I also find your jump on the KT wagon suspicious.

I think the Venmar wagon will be going places today. before it takes off, are these your current thoughts on Venmar evening given the information provided today?

Venmar didn't get on the wagon but wasn't posting -- worth pressuring there in case it was selective lurking.

FYI, I just looked him up, KT wagon started about 1040pm on Sunday and wrapped up 2amish on Monday....during those times he WAS NOT POSTING anywhere on site (at least under Venmar). So taking away the selective lurking....other thoughts?

[curiouskarmadog]

All I'll say for now is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action

VOTE: Venmar

Gut feeling

dont have to tell me twice.

Vote Venmar

what am I missing here? Why isnt this getting more action? I thought this was pointing a direction, but then a see this...

Actually I don't feel like reading 30 pages can someone just loop me in or point to things I should care about

I think you shouldn't be lazy, if you're interested in doing some scumhunt you should go and read, and come back with good content.

this doesnt feel like someone who knows something. This feels like someone asking someone to do something so they will provide content (essentially scum hunting).

NJAC, is my vote in the right place?

[curiouskarmadog]

Kitty and Kowabungha have anti partner vibes based on Kitty's posting, I feel

back and forth on this....something I noted early yesterday.

Also, I like this post. This feels authentic. Question though, why werent you curious WHY KT didnt like the Greetings push? This post seems like you are more angry that someone would question you versus understanding the WHY behind the thing. Like we are in Day one, WHY did KT not only not like your "push" but single that out to talk about? Your initial issue should have been with that. At any rate, still feels town.

ALSO, it is kind of cute you two arguing with each while you are voting together. I dont think this is a theater....but it did make me giggle.

I don't like Kowah's push on Greeting.

Well you should. They literally slipped and called me town which is impossible for any town player to know on D1. Its not, however, impossible for scum to know on D1.

????

Do you not know that "X is town" is basically just a way to say "I have a strong TR on X"?

Yeah it wasn't said like that at all. Post 48 - "Both town and mafia can make contentless posts for no reason or for whatever reason really.

It is a common mistake for town

to assume that every post has intention."

That was in response to my 44. "I feel like everything is alignment indicative. Every post is made with intentions. Its not up to the poster to express this, but up to the player-base to interpret."

They did not just simply say "Kowah is town" they responded and said what I said "is a common mistake for town" that's not a town read. That's not a guess. That was an attempt to discredit my opinion on the game followed by a them blatantly mentioning what my alignment is. This does not come from a town POV.

Also, why don't you actually read the game before you come in here and discredit what I've been doing? What gives you the confidence to come in here, tell me you don't like my push on Greeting, and then openly prove you haven't even looked at it?

what if this WAS theater? If I pushed a case on person X and person Y had a problem with it. I would question person Y about the WHY, not be upset they questioned me. Also during this exchange, KT said Kowah was misrepping him. ALL THE TIME, both of them were voting together (me).

[curiouskarmadog]

Im telling you, that seemed SO MUCH like kowa/kitty being partners… cause if you look at the rest of the ISO… kitty struck up a little conversation with me (town) and that was nothing compared to with kowa…

that means jack.

the conversation I have had with you is ALSO different then the one I have had with (insert any other person here).

[curiouskarmadog]

I actually really like CKD and Bub's interactions. Bub has been melding with me all game.

with each other? Not sure how you are reading us both town in that (two townies bumping heads?) especially yesterday.

...

at any rate, I need a couple questions answered atm, think I might have read a situation wrong or am completely missing a thing.

consider my vote ALSO on Kowah. reading that back and forth between Kowah and KT again, upped Kowah's scum factor in my eyes.

[curiouskarmadog]

especially when his partner is bulletproof and has a 1-shot invest

but i mean there is a world in which he did it to distance and it kind of spiraled i suppose

I know scum knows who are on their team, but I forget, do they know the ROLES each other have prior to D1?

[curiouskarmadog]

Kitty and Kowabungha have anti partner vibes based on Kitty's posting, I feel

Agreed. Kitty was desperate for kowah's approval

Ehhh it looks a lot like Kowa calling kitty out for their posts, and Kowa has experience... so probably knows to do stuff like that for distance... I'm pretty sold on kowa!scum lmao

I'm actually shocked that anyone thinks we are scum partners.

really why?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, we can talk about this post-game, but the things y'all see as 'FL could possibly be scum' for, are so like laughable to me.

Not in a bad way, it's just nice not being BOP'd for once.

here is the thing, you have confidence for sure.

but you kind of got that "Im so good there is no way you can tell I am scum" vibe.

I dont know if you are scum or town, but I feel like your posting today has been content filled and helpful.

[curiouskarmadog]

especially when his partner is bulletproof and has a 1-shot invest

but i mean there is a world in which he did it to distance and it kind of spiraled i suppose

I know scum knows who are on their team, but I forget, do they know the ROLES each other have prior to D1?

typically ya, scum have daytalk here and a lot of times mods will post role PMs in the scum thread

Man it has been awhile since I have played on this site, but I dont remember ever having DAYTALK. is that a thing?

[curiouskarmadog]

nevermind, read the rules (1st page).....well that kind of changes somethings. I have been going off the thought that Scum only talk at night.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont like that scum have day talk....I mean seriously. If a noob scum comes in, a more experienced partner can coach them elsewhere?!?! ugh....ugh. is that been a thing on this site for awhile?!?!

oh and calm down scum in your daytalking thread "CKD clearly looks town now". I would say all the above if I was scum as theater....so just come in and say this is theater.

[curiouskarmadog]

Nice dumbtell please continue

yep...also went back to check the last game I played here (2016). scum had day talk. I guess I used to playing WW...at any rate, nothing to see here, move along.

[curiouskarmadog]

I played games where mafia could only talk on start of game.

THAT'S a mess.

I dont

think

remember ever seeing that either.

at any rate,
this has nothing to do with this game.

Enchant, are you scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

On the fence, ask me later.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also ill take the "you are scummy for asking" bullet here

All I'll say for now is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action

VOTE: Venmar

Gut feeling

dont have to tell me twice.

Vote Venmar

This needs to be explained. Out of the gate NJAC votes Venmar and we find out this.

sooo, at this point,

we have a claimed mason (and a partner?).
whatever NJAC is
my claimed non-VT role
probably a vig of some type

and a night where someone was not killed.

clearly I am full of dumbtells.

why are we not exploring this NJAC/Venmar situation?

[curiouskarmadog]

I feel like I am legitimately missing something.

Logic?

[curiouskarmadog]

greeting was visited by a loud jailkeeper n1. that will explain the lack of kills better than *loud action* ever does.

I get that. but what about Venmar/NJAC?

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: karmadog

Beh

HA! Like I said its all theater...

[curiouskarmadog]

I think targeting your scumread is a very sensible thing, especially considering that what NJAC said about his role means its not strong/important.

okay maybe that is what I am missing....what did NJAC say about his role?

[curiouskarmadog]

okay this is what I saw.

Venmar entered day 2...seemingly defeated ("I dont really want to read") and announced he was targeted last night by NJAC.

I go to check what NJAC said, and right out of the gate, NJAC votes Venmar.

Not knowing there was a scum day chat, to me that looked like Venmar was announcing to his team, "look when I die, kill NJAC"

soooo

UNVOTE

voted using incorrect assumptions.

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: karmadog

Beh

HA! Like I said its all theater...

I did same trick as scum: Doing scummy things and flex about it.

You clearly overdoing it.

clearly. taking some notes here, what amount would be a good amount in your book? like one or two times?

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: karmadog

Beh

HA! Like I said its all theater...

I did same trick as scum: Doing scummy things and flex about it.

You clearly overdoing it.

Also since I have 0 pressure on me today, the purpose of the theater was to get MORE town cred for absolutely no reason? with all the things going on, HERE is where you want to put your vote?

lol..

[curiouskarmadog]

you should go back to assuming there's no daychat cause you were making better reads then

my "read" was strictly based on I thought he was communicating, this is not the case.

going to go back an reread.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD I don't think is trying to gamesolve organically,

lets talk organic scum hunting. what are some examples of this in your mind of this.

for example, Bub, mentioned....hey, Venmar wasnt posting during the KT wagon that could be suspicious....I thought.."hmmm, lets check...he wasnt, was he posting ANYWHERE...nope". So after I looked that up, I asked Bub if he had any OTHER reason to think you might be scum

now. is the organic or inorganic scum hunting? what are some of examples of YOU organically looking for scum?

Im I actually trying to look for scum, or posting bullshit like..

Actually I don't feel like reading 30 pages can someone just loop me in or point to things I should care about

[curiouskarmadog]

Truth is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action and honestly that's all I know about that :shrug:

the fact you instantly outed that is was NJAC... instead of just "LOUD PERSON VISITED ME!!!" what if it was a doc? like, if NJAC is town, you literally just told scum that NJAC is a doc/cop...
so honestly, for that reason alone, I kinda just want to
VOTE: Venmar

Venmar, what WAS the purpose of announcing who targeted you?

[curiouskarmadog]

Truth is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action and honestly that's all I know about that :shrug:

the fact you instantly outed that is was NJAC... instead of just "LOUD PERSON VISITED ME!!!" what if it was a doc? like, if NJAC is town, you literally just told scum that NJAC is a doc/cop...
so honestly, for that reason alone, I kinda just want to
VOTE: Venmar

Andante,

so other than being a poor move, wouldnt he just tell his buddies in day chat? what would be the scum motivation for saying it like he did?

[curiouskarmadog]

At this point, I am going with gut.

Vote: GuyInFreezer

as much as I liked being defended yesterday in the face of the wagon, the fact he made a point of declaring it bothers me, feeeeeels like he was trying to get some cred when I flipped town.

also I would say there wasnt much interaction with KT (unless I am missing a thing), but he didnt really have a lot of interaction with a lot of people.

this "case" is weak, but I think some pressure should be applied here (for when he returns).

[curiouskarmadog]

viewtopic.php?p=13145880#p13145880

AndanteScum saying I was setting elims up for the future here as well.

SO since you are doing so much work here and seemed sold....I looked into this game...(kind of). the Scum chat was interesting....there Admante partner coached with..

"just spam as much as you possibly can, when pushed don't use logic, just ate
works evey time"

later Andante says "I'm trying to find my element!!! like, once I'm in the zone, ultimate spamming can begin, cause I have to be fairly genuine too... ahhhh"

later still "lmaooo that sounds like a good plan to me!!! I mean, I helped add 200 posts in a few hours... Aza got overwhelmed, bad look for aza, great for us,"

so spamming is a straight up tactic for Andante..

I got to say, reading this mafia PT, Andante you are more calculating that I gave you credit for here in this game. going to compare the two a bit more.

[curiouskarmadog]

so spamming is a straight up tactic for Andante..

I got to say, reading this mafia PT, Andante you are more calculating that I gave you credit for here in this game. going to compare the two a bit more.

lmaooo I mean, you can't tell me spamming isn't aa good tactic, and FL going at me.. KNOWING it will result in me replying nonstop... kinda feels like that same plan... but that game, if you look it was essentially just spam, pretty much every single one of my 500 posts here is game related and a genuine thought. wanna talk about hu tao only posting 1 line per post? that feels a lot more like spam to me...

I mean, I'm also "really good" as town... I had 2500 post pt with scum in invictus so like... yeah sorry, it's just how I am
viewtopic.php?t=89500 - kovu

it also feels like the timing right, when heat it put on...like for example, FL starts his meta, the last page (115), out of the 24 posts on that page, yours is 16 of them most all one sentence lines. His posts for the passed couple pages are quite buried. so someone replacing in or one of our many VLA players, will get lost in all the noise. Ill check out your town game too though.

[curiouskarmadog]

there's a weird dynamic between kowabungah/FL/curiouskarmadog right now, and I'm not sure all 3 are town

LOL...really?

[curiouskarmadog]

Ill read the town game, I am not sold on anything. I just was surprised by the scum PT and the conversation about spamming there. I think I underestimated Andante bit in this game (no offense).

[curiouskarmadog]

Also we need, the other half of this roster to start contributing.

[curiouskarmadog]

i think it's likely all three are town, andante

ah shit... like... if it's 3 town TUNNELED onto me, this is just gonna be hell... like I WANT to find scum I do, but obviously these garbage reads on me aren't gonna help me be able to read so I'm genuinely only going to be useless or help scum here, so there's no point in keeping me around...

jesus, get the ATE out of your system already.

why are they garbage? AND I havent actually said I thought you were scum here yet (today). I DO HOWEVER find the similarities worth checking out. I dont think FL is scum. they are doing waaaaaaay too much work. it feels like a genuine "oh I got something here and I going to deep dive it" kind of attitude. If they are scum, hats off..., but it feels like town. A confident im going show off my scum hunting skill kind of town.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also we need, the other half of this roster to start contributing.

they won't with this tunnel on me happening again... I'd say this significantly contributed to them falling behind d1 and never catching up...

but not your spam posts?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also we need, the other half of this roster to start contributing.

they won't with this tunnel on me happening again... I'd say this significantly contributed to them falling behind d1 and never catching up...

but not your spam posts?

the tunnel creates spam

a tunnel doesnt me the light at the end of isnt scum though.

a tunnel is just that...a focused case.

[curiouskarmadog]

doesnt "mean"

fuck...more spam

[curiouskarmadog]

Here is the problem with me swallowing Adante as scum. FL tell me why I am wrong.

at..

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

My vote put it at 7v6

in 1967, Andante voted Eira....she could have voted Sky, putting it at 7v7

would scum Andante in your meta do that? Also given the KT wagon (just reviewed again), hard for me to see ScumAndante bussing a partner in that way.

--- just something I want to note for myself since I went back to look at the above---
1 minute after 1967, Gimli also followed Andante to the Eria vote.

then 2 pages of fluff between adante and gimli.

gimli unvote 2012

at one point Gimli votes greeting.

in 2060, FL says Sky obv town, andante obv counter

in 2063, Gimli votes sky.

Gimli vote Adante again..

by 2107, wagon AvS - 7v5

AGAIN Andante, votes someone else (FL) that isnt Sky (her counterwagon)

AGAIN gimli changes vote to Sky (turns it back to 6v6)

in 2140-2142, Gimli and Andante vote greeting together. ..then there is a general greeting push. Mason claim.

then the kitty wagon.
FL starts with 2309, Gimli 2310, Andante 2311, NJAC 2312, 2317 Andante jumps KT wagon for Malcom (that being said, I can see town reasoning here) 2333 Andante back on KT, 2335 STD votes, 2345 I vote KT, 2348 Bub, 2368 Hu, then Kowah for the hammer.

[curiouskarmadog]

@mod, my vote should be on GIF

At this point, I am going with gut.

Vote: GuyInFreezer

as much as I liked being defended yesterday in the face of the wagon, the fact he made a point of declaring it bothers me, feeeeeels like he was trying to get some cred when I flipped town.

also I would say there wasnt much interaction with KT (unless I am missing a thing), but he didnt really have a lot of interaction with a lot of people.

this "case" is weak, but I think some pressure should be applied here (for when he returns).

dont think I unvoted, but if I did

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

[curiouskarmadog]

the only thing I see here that might be a check against Andante is this.

@Malcolm, Kitty, Sky, Flavor, curious: you should pick one of the biggest wagons at this point.

I'm kind of tapped out because I'm tired of this day. I still think Glitch/Enchant is scum.

VOTE: Skygazer

so KT says he is "tapped" and chose the Sky (4 votes at the time) wagon over the Adante (6 votes)

if he was tapped and just wanted to get rid of an easy "town", he could have jumped on Adante, right with little to no grief.?

-----------
continued reading

KT then calls out GIF

This is flipping town though

Why are you voting it if you're townreading it?

which makes me feel like he was setting something up for a SKY town flip?!?


ughhh.....fuck I am back and forth on everything.

[curiouskarmadog]

sorry mod....now I AM going to

UNVOTE

why would scumKT post that to scumGIF?

[curiouskarmadog]

okay, backing off of this game for a couple days. I keep reading the same shit over and over again and flip flopping. We need to have the other half post some content. At this point, I would also be fine with voting out an ACTIVE lurker.

[curiouskarmadog]

okay will catch up tonight or tomorrow...doesnt look like a lot as occurred.

also..

Long time no see, sheep. It’sa me, the Boonskiies

HA, I have played with you before, Beisdes Cephirr, I thought everyone I have played with in the day has long since moved on. Now I dont remember ANYTHING about your play, but I did recalled your avatar, before I looked it up.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think CKD, Kowah, and hopefully Sheep would be down to come onto Andante.

Here is my only hiccup with think that Andante is scum

Here is the problem with me swallowing Adante as scum. FL tell me why I am wrong.

at..

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

My vote put it at 7v6

in 1967, Andante voted Eira....she could have voted Sky, putting it at 7v7

would scum Andante in your meta do that? Also given the KT wagon (just reviewed again), hard for me to see ScumAndante bussing a partner in that way.

work that out for me.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hu Tao went from 'not sure on Venmar' to 'this is the right play for the day' without having any sort of explanation for that trajectory. It's purely responsive imo.

They've been saying how I'm the vote for a while without voting for me until recently actually I think

What are people’s CKD reasons?

I didn't like his reasons for pushing me, seems like he over-focused on my NJAC outing and NJAC voting me at day start, it felt a bit wolfy in how quickly they made the incorrect assumption and tried to push the narrative that NJAC was informed voting me when NJAC themselves hadn't made that push himself.

Which actually reminds me, I forgot to respond to this post:

CKD I don't think is trying to gamesolve organically,

lets talk organic scum hunting. what are some examples of this in your mind of this.

for example, Bub, mentioned....hey, Venmar wasnt posting during the KT wagon that could be suspicious....I thought.."hmmm, lets check...he wasnt, was he posting ANYWHERE...nope". So after I looked that up, I asked Bub if he had any OTHER reason to think you might be scum

now. is the organic or inorganic scum hunting? what are some of examples of YOU organically looking for scum?

Im I actually trying to look for scum, or posting bullshit like..

Actually I don't feel like reading 30 pages can someone just loop me in or point to things I should care about

And my response to an example of inorganic scumhunting is the explanation/example I gave above this quote tbh.

maybe explain what you mean by inorganic.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hey everyone!

Can you please order these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Eira, Sky}

I need andante's flip to reassess on this entire game so I can't really answer that well

I guess I'd put sky as the scummiest and enchant and venmar as the least likely scum.

Not that I want to bring attention to a wagon on me...buuuuut, I have to ask. Given this, would MY flip be better? Both Sky and Enchant are voting me, no reasons and on this page alone, Venmar is pushing my case.


if it help, I am leaning scum for you.

[curiouskarmadog]

I mean I am just trying to figure out your mind set. you say those three people are scummy and ALL three are pushing a case on me....how would an Adante flip help you assess those three?

it feels like you are just setting up for tomorrow.

actually.

Vote Gimli.

[curiouskarmadog]

just in case

VOTE: GIMLI

[curiouskarmadog]

Hey everyone!

Can you please order these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Eira, Sky}

you are getting six, because I cant discern who is more scummy in the parentheses


(Gimli, Malcom) Bub, Enchant, (Hu, Kowah)...

also Sheep is just a non player slot in my mind right now....omg, I also dont like Venmar atm, but that might be because I thought at the start of the day all points were indicating that you had some kind of investigation on him. before that, I had him at town. outside of the day 2 start (misunderstanding?) and him pushing this "inorganic scum hunting nonsense" I thought he was town.

[curiouskarmadog]

(Gimli, Malcom) Bub, Enchant, (Hu, Kowah)...

I would be down on any of these wagons..

[curiouskarmadog]

I think CKD, Kowah, and hopefully Sheep would be down to come onto Andante.

Here is my only hiccup with think that Andante is scum

Here is the problem with me swallowing Adante as scum. FL tell me why I am wrong.

at..

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

My vote put it at 7v6

in 1967, Andante voted Eira....she could have voted Sky, putting it at 7v7

would scum Andante in your meta do that? Also given the KT wagon (just reviewed again), hard for me to see ScumAndante bussing a partner in that way.

work that out for me.

Did you miss the part where Andante hard town read Sky and asked to be limmed instead of Sky? Why would anyone, town or scum, then vote that person after making that big of fuss?

what post number was that?

[curiouskarmadog]

This is flipping town though

Why are you voting it if you're townreading it?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
yeah, Andante is scum locked.

explained to me the thought process here, because I got something else from this post.

[curiouskarmadog]

*explain

[curiouskarmadog]

I can't articulate it yet, but I don't like Curious last like 5-10 posts.

It almost feels like they want to come across as disagreeing about Andante, but only so that they can be seen changing their mind.

Ill make it clearer for you. I dont like the Andante wagon. I dont understanding why (now) multiple people say the Andante flop will help them "reassess the game" or "open up the game"

so give a flop what does say about me? if they are scum, am I protecting a buddy? if they are town, am I trying to get town cred?

or maybe...just maybe..

I dont like the wagon and I feel like there is a whole game of scummy people here that would MORE telling if they flipped. TO INCLUDE ME! There has been MULTIPLE people say they thought I was scummy for this reason or that, but are leaning on this wagon.

so how do you "feel" about my posts now. any confusion?

[curiouskarmadog]

By soft you mean ascetic

weeeeeeelllll fuck... there it is.

guess thats my full claim then.

[curiouskarmadog]

But if I recall, CKD said something early day 2 implying they could have been a

reason the kill didnt go through the night

, which I could WIFOM myself both ways, so yeah, CKD should definitely be in the pool of possible scum as the game goes on.

I did, but later redacted that. I dont stop kills.

[curiouskarmadog]

Btw I’m townreading the ascetic claim

apparently you are the only one who put it together.

or....?

[curiouskarmadog]

Venmar, Malcolm, Eira, Sky, Enchant, GIF

FIXED

I just realized I did the list backwards in the middle sorry

If there is a vig, trust me and shoot in this block of people tonight

curiouskarmadog
Skygazer
Sheep
Bub Bidderskins
MalcolmTucker
Venmar

Pretty big net you got there.

[curiouskarmadog]

why vig me if I am not even in your top 5 scummy players?

is that because I am not reading you are town?

[curiouskarmadog]

*as town.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, why not let scum deal with me. at night, I cant be protected (why I told the doc Day 1 to not target me) or jail kept. I think I am barking up the right trees today. Scum need a kill and I will be an easy one.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont like the wagon and I feel like there is a whole game of scummy people here that would MORE telling if they flipped. TO INCLUDE ME! There has been MULTIPLE people say they thought I was scummy for this reason or that, but are leaning on this wagon.

such as the Kitty hop off even though they said it was in their pool,

can you show me where this is (again?)? I feel like I have reread day 1, 4 times now and that did not stick out. Then I got lost in meta reading.

[curiouskarmadog]

I can literally go on and on about the different reasons Andante is objectively scum here, and I have, but I haven't done it in the past couple days, because I've been more focused on Hu Tao.

I don't know what to tell ya, CKD. Andante's just scum here, and integrated with the most, so their flip opens up the game more than anyone without a doubt here.

Really at this point, if I joined the Andante wagon after stomping my feet down all day and saying how much I would rather want other people to die....their flip will hurt me either way.

I know ....I know...that isnt a reason to not join a wagon, but I just dont feel like they are scum. Maybe I am wrong. How about this, if you need a hammer....i will do it at the appropriate time and take whatever fucking grief will come.

that being said, what about that Hu wagon?

[curiouskarmadog]

@Curious - Kowahbunga's Case went over it very well.

I just made a little trajectory quote chain here in the spoilers. Andante saw the momentum going, and then actively tried to derail. It wasn't as noticeable during the day, but in hindsight, this is kinda huge.

On top of that, the 'aaaah im scared' at the end is exactly what happened when I saw Andante as Scum bus in the game you saw the meta with them as well.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: kitty

VOTE: kitty

VOTE: kitty

The extent of Andante's tunnelling on me makes me lean more town again there. The case isn't strong and they're basically trying to use whatever they can to make the scumread fit even if it's illogical, but I think scum in that position is more careful to actually mount a logic-based case.

but we’re talking about me? when do I even have this huge “logic based case”??? this feels like your attempt to go “don’t worry I tr you!” to get me to stop tunneling

also “what’s the case on kitty I’ll vote there to end day” is that you saying you know this flips town and you want one of us town to own it so it’s out fault not yours?

VOTE: malcolm

The extent of Andante's tunnelling on me makes me lean more town again there. The case isn't strong and they're basically trying to use whatever they can to make the scumread fit even if it's illogical, but I think scum in that position is more careful to actually mount a logic-based case.

but we’re talking about me? when do I even have this huge “logic based case”??? this feels like your attempt to go “don’t worry I tr you!” to get me to stop tunneling

also “what’s the case on kitty I’ll vote there to end day” is that you saying you know this flips town and you want one of us town to own it so it’s out fault not yours?

VOTE: malcolm

lmao go back to kitty

The extent of Andante's tunnelling on me makes me lean more town again there. The case isn't strong and they're basically trying to use whatever they can to make the scumread fit even if it's illogical, but I think scum in that position is more careful to actually mount a logic-based case.

but we’re talking about me? when do I even have this huge “logic based case”??? this feels like your attempt to go “don’t worry I tr you!” to get me to stop tunneling

also “what’s the case on kitty I’ll vote there to end day” is that you saying you know this flips town and you want one of us town to own it so it’s out fault not yours?

VOTE: malcolm

lmao go back to kitty

I think malcolm knows kitty flips town

andante I just wanna get through an elim that isn't you

don't derail the wagon pls

andante I just wanna get through an elim that isn't you

don't derail the wagon pls

and I just wanna lim scum, that's where we differ

mmk kitty wagon. full send. no brakes
VOTE: Kitty

okay reread it. I dont know. Andante's votes were all over the place yesterday. She did jump off, but she jumped back on. That COULD have been because she(scum) did see this wagon stopping and she knew she had to be on it.

I mean even you said this at one point.

Malcolm could have just stayed quiet if he were scum here unless defending scumKitty.

Don’t see him being scum here, though

look you got my vote at the end....that is all (at this point)I have to give

I would really love if some of these fucking lurkers did a thing, posted content, expressed an opinion.

[curiouskarmadog]

Gimli is 100% always town, and I will die on that hill.

look, I read you as town...probably the most town. BUT our reads are so different.

[curiouskarmadog]

and I just wanna lim scum, that's where we differ

God this is such an awful post. Andante put Kitty in the "would lim pile" so they HAD to be scum reading Kitty. But still gave Kitty a town read here lmao D2 is over everyone, let's move on.

Just before someone acts like this was me saying this, it was Andante's line, and Kowabungha quoted it through me and deleted quotes

LOL, I was going to say..........

[curiouskarmadog]

I just realised, Greeting voted me, then everyone ignored it and like "Greeting being replaced".

I am not speculating and i shot my leg with it, i am just annoyed that Mason basically left alone and not listened.

... Well i mean you shouldn't listen because it's me, but I don't get why you do it. Mafia would already made up 100000 reasons to sheep mason on me, so i am just curious.


Please don't tell me you enjoying my company. It's already common knowledge that i am beautiful person.

what is this post?

I am not even sure what you are saying.

[curiouskarmadog]

So anyway why i even bothering, i think mafia taked passive-agressive approach. They obviously won't push me directly, but will throw many reads how scummy i am in hopes idea rise up. And it will rise up, because when everyone get murderkilled i still will be alive, and need to be sorted (good luck), so i think mafia is someone had me as mafia, yet... Doesht do anything. Lol.

hey hey, thats me.... I think you are scummy and havent voted you....thats me!!!! speaking of passive aggressive....why dont you get aggressive aggressive.

[curiouskarmadog]

Gimli is 100% always town, and I will die on that hill.

look, I read you as town...probably the most town. BUT our reads are so different.

And honestly, I think post game if you're town, you're gonna be the one that's gonna be having the wrong reads.

Gimli and I were the first two ones on Kitty, and actively got Andante back on the wagon.

If you think that's a bus by either of us when we absolutely did not have to land on Kitty, I don't know what to tell ya.

I think you need to reassess your reads.

this is fair.

UNVOTE

[curiouskarmadog]

idk what NJAC's doing

I'm trying to use the time I have on D2 to do some scumhunt. I think I won't last much in this game, because scum already knows I'm a PR.

I admit the case on Andante is sound, but my focus has been on those who were not on Kitty's wagon.

Anyway, if I have not made that clear yet, then I'll say it again: I don't oppose Andante's lim at all.

nah, scum should clearly kill me tonight, you can be protected, I cant....

[curiouskarmadog]

idk what NJAC's doing

I'm trying to use the time I have on D2 to do some scumhunt. I think I won't last much in this game, because scum already knows I'm a PR.

I admit the case on Andante is sound, but my focus has been on those who were not on Kitty's wagon.

Anyway, if I have not made that clear yet, then I'll say it again: I don't oppose Andante's lim at all.

nah, scum should clearly kill me tonight, you can be protected, I cant....

Why should scum be afraid of you? You're protecting them. PR claim isn't enough to warrant a Night Kill, especially considering there's likely stronger PR's out there. You yourself said you were a weaker role, and Ascetic is inherently scummy, so they could always misfade you later.

Scum have no reason to night kill an ascetic claim.

shhhhhhhhhh

[curiouskarmadog]

@Sheep - join Andante. I wanna see if CKD hammers like they say they would.

LOL, dont like this peer pressure post. I said I would hammer if needed and I will. What was the purpose of this post?

that being said, if I were scum and Andante was also scum, I would also hammer at this point.

was checking this morning to see if it was needed.

[curiouskarmadog]

okay I am here. intend to hammer.

anybody want to say anything before I do?

[curiouskarmadog]

lol,

okay,

VOTE: Andante

may God have mercy on your soul.

[curiouskarmadog]

well you are dead now, you scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am angry on myself for agreeing on this.

at what point?

[curiouskarmadog]

Man, Star you have post more in this page than you did the entire Day 2

[curiouskarmadog]

Im just here for the flip, sent the mod a message.

also pretzel pics?

[curiouskarmadog]

Man, Star you have post more in this page than you did the entire Day 2

who is star

fuck "Sky"...whatever your name is

[curiouskarmadog]

"When I look at your, I see stars..."

[curiouskarmadog]

noting the game is open...will catch up this weekend.

[curiouskarmadog]

also if there is a dead thread, it is kind of karma that Andante and FL are stuck there together. makes me giggle.

spam that dead thread in the sky Andante....spam it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Okay, take notes for self and getting caught up. Starting page 134, FL flip town.

3342-GIF claims for no reason and says he protected NJAC
3345- GIF “now” going to read the thread, not crazy about this and the above post.
3347- GIF thinks I am town because of roles
3348- Hu surprised FL died. Why? And why post this.
3349- STD votes bub
3354- sheep votes Sky
3359- Enchant votes GIF, asked why GIF did what he stated, didn’t like the answer, doesn’t believe the claim.
3366- Gimli asking about my role (ascetic townie..fyi)
3368- Gimli provides a read list, no scum on it. Who is furt? (replaced Greeting)
3369- Gim me/mal/furt/gif…later sheep, guess this is his pool of scum reads?
3375- furt votes bub, no real case.
3386- Venmar “wtf is that flip”? well jesus, everyone seems sooo surprised about the flips…this seems like theater.
3387- Gimli asks kind of what I was feeling. That being said, there have been some claims…FL was quite clearly townie. Just misguided (YOU READING THIS FL?!?!, going to hold you to that “let compare scum reads at the end of the game thing”)
3389- probably done with Mal, “why did we kill Andante?” check to see if he was saying that yesterday as the wagon was going full steam
3390- Venmar believes GIF claim.
3394, Gimli rights of Lam and Bub as town for reasons(?) (me/GIF/Sky/sheep + scum)
3397-Gim votes sheep
3404- sky votes gimli, claims traffic analyst? Well didn’t see that coming
3406- venmar doesn’t like my 3380 post. So? Truth be truth bud, got a problem with it? Vote me.
3408- STD votes gim,
3409- Enchant votes gim,
3413- gim claim VT, but doesn’t vote Sky in return?!? States something about fake claims? What?
3415- sky “reaction test over”….huh…HA…I like it.
3422- STD back on bub
3425- enchant on STD
3465- enchant is angry he listened to FL and Gim (about Andante?). Well get over it. There were a lot of people saying they needed that flip (note to self, look that up). I also didn’t think Andante was scum, BUT there was a chance. Only fault was your own if you are town.
3468- STD votes bub (but grumbles). Well that was quick. If you think bub is scum, vote bub. If bub DOES flip scum, remember this right here.
3477- Venmar votes sheep
3480 – Venmar wants to join a wagon on me. LOL
3497-Sky with another claim??? Hmmm, STD cant communicate….now I don’t know what to believe, first reaction test, fine…you “outed a VT”, but again?
3512- STD votes Sky, STD is the other mason?!?! So Sky is lying? Or a reaction test? WTF is happening?!?!
3525- gim votes sky
3526- STD unvotes.
3529- Sky fake claimed again?!?! Fuck that. If you are town that was a shitty play. So is Furt and STD in the clear now?
3535- sky vote Gim?
3538- Enchant votes Sheep, because sheep said he would vote Andante even if he thought he was town. HEY ENCHANT…I DID THAT…AND I WAS VERY VOCAL ABOUT IT, this is a shitty vote given what is happening in the thread.
3550- enchant votes Sky
3555- Sky “i was very clearly hoping StD would like, not claim there .” Based on what? If someone says they have a watch me do a thing, I didn’t do, I am going to say they are scum. I WANT TO SEE THE STD CRUMB
3564- Enchant thinks Sky is town, where is her vote again? Oh right Sky
3509—WHY ARE WE SAYING THERE ARE 3 MASONS? What am I missing?
(page 144, Star posts claims, says Gim is the 3rd mason, Im a bit lost here)
3591- enchant votes Mal, Enchant is the new Andante.
3644- Gim votes sheep? So Sky is “just being sky” I mean it could have been a weird town ploy. It would be weird for Skyscum to do that I guess without pressure, unless they were fishing…it doesn’t feel like a fish. UNLESS, its Sky/STD/Frut….fuck…..that would be an amazing play. Don’t think that’s happening.
3645- Bub comes in “need to reassess” wants to jump back on that CKD is scum trip.
3664- NJAC enters, vote gim.
3667- NJAC votes Sky (votes while catching up?)

caught up.....

need to reread a couple things for yesterday. vote will be coming this weekend.

[curiouskarmadog]

also noting that Venmar and Bub, are testing the waters for interest in my wagon. you hoping someone else starts it, so you can limp on?

[curiouskarmadog]

would like to hear this reassess on the entire game though.

Hey everyone!

Can you please order these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Eira, Sky}

I need andante's flip to reassess on this entire game so I can't really answer that well

there was a second person who stated something like this too...need to find.

[curiouskarmadog]

couple questions Bub...and think hard here.

When you posted "your case" on me today, why did you not read the all of the thread?

Why were you attacking me Day 1?

Did you ever feel that Andante was scummy Day 1? If so why? If not why?

When I posted the below BEFORE your vote on Day 2, what were your thoughts on it?

Here is the problem with me swallowing Adante as scum. FL tell me why I am wrong.

at..

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

My vote put it at 7v6

in 1967, Andante voted Eira....she could have voted Sky, putting it at 7v7

would scum Andante in your meta do that? Also given the KT wagon (just reviewed again), hard for me to see ScumAndante bussing a partner in that way.

When I posted this yesterday, why did you comment it on it then?

I can literally go on and on about the different reasons Andante is objectively scum here, and I have, but I haven't done it in the past couple days, because I've been more focused on Hu Tao.

I don't know what to tell ya, CKD. Andante's just scum here, and integrated with the most, so their flip opens up the game more than anyone without a doubt here.

Really at this point, if I joined the Andante wagon after stomping my feet down all day and saying how much I would rather want other people to die....their flip will hurt me either way.

I know ....I know...that isnt a reason to not join a wagon, but I just dont feel like they are scum. Maybe I am wrong. How about this, if you need a hammer....i will do it at the appropriate time and take whatever fucking grief will come.

that being said, what about that Hu wagon?

[curiouskarmadog]

MY gut is saying, "Gimli is scum" but it just doesnt make sense.

I dont understand the FL kill from Gimliscum. FL was clearly town and apparently had some sway here and felt Gimli was absolutely town. Why lose that asset?

that being said, I still want to hear MORE details on the reassess over that lame post today.

[curiouskarmadog]

@

Everyone

:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

NJAC....
I think this time around, I would like to see YOU answer this first (if you havent already)

Also why isnt Hu on this list.

I am trying to figure out the FL kill. other than being obv town, there are other claimed roles here. Also there is this.

Gimli
Kowahbunga
Venmar

curiouskarmadog
Bub Bidderskins

MalcolmTucker
Skygazer
NJAC
GuyInFreezer

STD
Enchant
Sheep

Hu Tao

Andante

This is my lean town group.

I really do think it's just the bottom 2 then 1 in those 6. I don't think it's GIF/Bub, Curious is being super genuine imo, so I think they're just completely misguided town. Skygazer/Malcolm/NJAC I all lean town on, but I could technically make a partner case for all of them. These wouldn't be dealt with til later with more flips, and frankly, I probably won't be around by this time anyways, so it's for the rest of yall to look into.

[curiouskarmadog]

Man you're just immediate super defensiveness towards any kind of pressure is so goddamn scummy.

scum love to lean on "being defensive is scummy" as part of a case, because they usually dont have anything. Someone says something they cant answer..."oh you are super defensive". lame just lame.

1.) explain the theory of why a scum would be more defensive than a townie. It is easy to just say it, but explain it.
2.) what is your definition of "defensive". I saw someone say something that is either not true or hypocritical I call it out.

[curiouskarmadog]

couple questions Bub...and think hard here.

When you posted "your case" on me today, why did you not read the all of the thread?

I skimmed through the early stuff today, but your posting at the end of D2 was soooo scummy given the flip that it over-ruled anything.

Why were you attacking me Day 1?

I made my case in 123 and your subsequent over-reaction to any sort of pressure made you look even more scummy. Your soft-claim to try and get pressure off you D1 was mega scummy and I don't understand why that caused the pressure to slip off, but I guess I'm just chalking that up to a meta shift. Back in my day that kind of soft-claim would have resulted in an instant elimination.

Did you ever feel that Andante was scummy Day 1? If so why? If not why?

I was all aboard the Andante wagon at the end of D1. I felt like her eratic posting and lack of conviction read as scummy, but I was reading the dynamic between you and her as town/scum because of your half-assed deflections towards her. So earlier in the day when I had a scumread on you that implied in my mind that Andante was town. Given the Andante town flip, that seriously implicates you.

When I posted the below BEFORE your vote on Day 2, what were your thoughts on it?

Here is the problem with me swallowing Adante as scum. FL tell me why I am wrong.

at..

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

My vote put it at 7v6

in 1967, Andante voted Eira....she could have voted Sky, putting it at 7v7

would scum Andante in your meta do that? Also given the KT wagon (just reviewed again), hard for me to see ScumAndante bussing a partner in that way.

When I posted this yesterday, why did you comment it on it then?

I can literally go on and on about the different reasons Andante is objectively scum here, and I have, but I haven't done it in the past couple days, because I've been more focused on Hu Tao.

I don't know what to tell ya, CKD. Andante's just scum here, and integrated with the most, so their flip opens up the game more than anyone without a doubt here.

Really at this point, if I joined the Andante wagon after stomping my feet down all day and saying how much I would rather want other people to die....their flip will hurt me either way.

I know ....I know...that isnt a reason to not join a wagon, but I just dont feel like they are scum. Maybe I am wrong. How about this, if you need a hammer....i will do it at the appropriate time and take whatever fucking grief will come.

that being said, what about that Hu wagon?

I don't understand why you're bringing up those posts. Given the Andante flip, those posts look SUPER scummy. It was those posts that caused me to inta vote you after catching up. You're just immediate reactionary defensiveness upon being pushed is so fucking scummy.

your post 123, here were your "points" of the page 5 from D1 case
-CKD isnt scum hunting. I called that out quickly because you clearly ISOed me to pull quotes but conveniently left out most the posts that were examples of me looking for scum. Scum like to cherry pick. To prove your "point" you had to pulled a quote from Page 2?!?!?! Where it was

mostly

jokey? I called something scummy, then do the same thing...on purpose. A day 2 semi-joke post was your BIG example of me not scum hunting?!?! BULLSHIT.
- I was making vague allusions to Andante being scummy. They werent vague. I thought they were scummy (called out others IN THIS GAME) for doing the same thing. Some scum like to make friends and tell jokes when they are in a game to act like they are relaxed and want to pocket some potential town...I called it out. At this point, you were saying I was trying to "sow mistrust" in regards to Andante. Damn straight I was. I thought the action was scummy, so I will called it out. My question is, why would you care? You supposedly didnt know what Andante's alignment was at that point, so why was it scummy? If Andante flipped scum, would it still have been scummy? No. you knew they would flip town.

thats it. that was your case on post 123. it was a bullshit case and at the time felt like you were could have been a misguided townie. But the fact you are still leaning on it D3, is scummy af.

Not to mention, YOU "THOUGHT" Andante was scum too. I note though, that you did not answer why you "thought" she was scummy too. I understand why. Because it would make you look like a hypocritic and shine a negative light on your bullshit case.

oh man, you have a big issue answer questions.

D2, when I posted why I felt Andante was town, BEFORE YOUR vote, did you read it? Did you consider it? Actually dont worry about answering it at this point. I dont think you have an answer that isnt going to make you look more scummy, which is why you avoided answering it.

Really...really, your only case is. CKD voted for Andante when he thought she was town. Thats it. Why did you not say ANYTHING yesterday as I was making these posts. Because YOU wanted the lynch to happen. Try to act like you didnt. Andante was clearly going to be the lynch yesterday. I notice you completely ignore the pressure posts to hammer. I am not using it as an excuse, my vote was my own, but I notice you are again conveniently ignoring it. Why arent those posts scummy? I knew the vote would be some low hanging fruit for some scum bag to attack me for it today no matter the flip that is why I called it out yesterday.

VOTE: Bub Bidderskins

you havent done anything in this game.

- you clearly are not trying to find scum, you post a case against me, but didnt actually read the last 10 pages of the game, because "I was just so scummy" you had to hurry to get your case out there before getting all the information.
- the only meaningful KT had with you was to sheep your bullshit case against me only to jump off when you jumped off.
- the only time you interacted with KT was when her wagon got big then all of the sudden "KT's iso is bad ya'll". LOL...just silly. Then 3 minutes later, you set yourself up to attack Andante D2 and confirm that KT's iso was "legitimately" worse than Greetings. I guess when you working up your case against me you ignored that KT iso when she followed your shitty case against me D1. That doesnt quite fit in your narrative you are trying sell right?

[curiouskarmadog]

It's like explaining why OMGUSing is scummy, except for fact "wiki told me so"

it is all about human nature not alignment. Someone attacks you, well they clearly arent on your side. it immediately makes you bias. same with being "over defensive" What is "over"? is being normal defensive okay? It is a silly attack and SCUM love to use it to fluff up a case.

Scum A "Townie B is scum because of X"
Townie B "No I am not, and here is why"
Scum A "See Townie A is clearly scum look how over defensive they are"

[curiouskarmadog]

@

Everyone

:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

general issue with this listing....it ignores Hu and Bub, which are high on my list atm.

Malcom/Venmar...Enchant...Sky/Sheep...GIF?

I would really have to go back and deep dive all 6, so this is just an off the cuff thought.

My question to you. Other than getting a time stamp of what people's thoughts were, is this actually helpful? for me, I am guessing and lack the time to reread all my notes. like as Im typing this, I want to change it.

Malcom/Venmar...Enchant...Sky.....Sheep...GIF?

Like I just remembered the whole Sky incident where she was either trying to trap scum or fish for PRs....but the sheep slot has done jack shit this game....which is scummier? man I dont know.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd and bub are posting bad and I can see how furtive thinks they're aligned or whatever

statements like this from you is why I think my gut says "scum" independent of actions in the game.

again, another easy dismissive thing to say without an explanation. Just hand wave it off without content. What is bad about it? I think Bub is scum. Bub wants you to believe he thinks I am scum. How is either push "bad"? Do you disagree with anything I have put forward? if so what exactly? What do you disagree about Bub's "case"?

[curiouskarmadog]

@

Everyone

:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

NJAC....
I think this time around, I would like to see YOU answer this first (if you havent already)

Also why isnt Hu on this list.

I am trying to figure out the FL kill. other than being obv town, there are other claimed roles here. Also there is this.

Gimli
Kowahbunga
Venmar

curiouskarmadog
Bub Bidderskins

MalcolmTucker
Skygazer
NJAC
GuyInFreezer

STD
Enchant
Sheep

Hu Tao

Andante

This is my lean town group.

I really do think it's just the bottom 2 then 1 in those 6. I don't think it's GIF/Bub, Curious is being super genuine imo, so I think they're just completely misguided town. Skygazer/Malcolm/NJAC I all lean town on, but I could technically make a partner case for all of them. These wouldn't be dealt with til later with more flips, and frankly, I probably won't be around by this time anyways, so it's for the rest of yall to look into.

Because I'm clearly town. Njac or adante would have been day 1 Elim if I didn't fight for a different vote out

Are you saying you are not on NJAC list because he thinks you are obvious town? Did NJAC say that somewhere?

[curiouskarmadog]

why you sheep me

i think in general u have good reads and i dont scumread u rn

and i think that scum-enchant doesnt have much to gain by defending me here?

i also dont have any credibility left to make pushes of my own that ppl would like... care about

random question for shits and giggle. What made you post the above 2 minutes after you posted the quoted comment. I mean you answered a question, addressed a different thing, then went back to add this statement. Curious, what made you add this? Motivation?

[curiouskarmadog]

Yes. He said I was his townread day 1

He said that today though?

---
@NJAC

I am curious, where are you on Hu?

[curiouskarmadog]

why you sheep me

i think in general u have good reads and i dont scumread u rn

and i think that scum-enchant doesnt have much to gain by defending me here?

i also dont have any credibility left to make pushes of my own that ppl would like... care about

random question for shits and giggle. What made you post the above 2 minutes after you posted the quoted comment. I mean you answered a question, addressed a different thing, then went back to add this statement. Curious, what made you add this? Motivation?

idk? i'm very stream of consciousness and tend to add on additional thoughts as they come. i think sometimes i get stubborn making pushes that no one else follows and i dont think anyone would follow me on anyone rn anyways so i might as well just make my vote more useful than it currently is via sheeping

fair.

lets say you DID have all your credibility back, who is scum? Why do you feel Bub is town? He thinks I am scum, do you feel like his case is good?

[curiouskarmadog]

Man you're just immediate super defensiveness towards any kind of pressure is so goddamn scummy.

scum love to lean on "being defensive is scummy" as part of a case, because they usually dont have anything. Someone says something they cant answer..."oh you are super defensive". lame just lame.

1.) explain the theory of why a scum would be more defensive than a townie. It is easy to just say it, but explain it.
2.) what is your definition of "defensive". I saw someone say something that is either not true or hypocritical I call it out.

I actually quite like this from CKD. They're frustrated at being scumread, sure, and could be read as defensive, but feels like the slot is actually trying to solve and points out Bub's case isn't all that strong.

here is the thing, I dont think I am being scumread. I think Bub is scum. In previous days I thought Bub could have been scumreading me, but given the amount of stuff that has actually happened in the game, the case he is pushing is weak at best. When I comment he is like..."oh over defensive, clearly scum"....there is no way he really believes that.

[curiouskarmadog]

This is just patently untrue given CKD was the leading wagon early in D1 until they claimed. Like...the slot was perceived as being so scummy that they had to claim to avoid being limmed.

This is a mis-representation of the game state. I believe the CKD wagon was the first serious wagon of the entire game, but I don't think it got all that close to an elimination, like maybe E-4? I read the claim as panicked and premature.

wow what a stretch here. another example how you dont have a case, but you NEEEEED something.

you want to put out there I panicked at E-4? really?!? laughable. I WAS LEAVING FOR SEVERAL DAYS. I wanted to get it out there. there is no way you believe this.

[curiouskarmadog]

@Malcom

I think it's possible that I'm tunnelling the point of pushing myself to confirmation bias, but I still feel like CKD's behavior is consistently scummy in ways that go beyond what you've mentioned.

I'm not presuming that townies are always "calm-headed and rational," if anything CKD has been more or less calm-headed and has tried to exhude a presence of rationality.

It's about the motivation behind their actions. I don't read any of their pushes as that significant -- their "pushes" are actually fairly toothless...except on people directly pushing them. They never seriously pushed people but slipped on to wagons when it was convenient.

Again, it's possible I'm just too deep in the tank at this point, but I just don't see how any of CKD's behavior is anything other than super scummy.

IMHO every reaction they've had to any kind of pressure has only been scummier and scummier.

Literally everyone else in the game is like half as likely to be scum as CKD IMHO.

there is no way you believe the bolded. there is just no way.

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't think pushing the person pushing you is intrinsically scummy if you think they're scum,

but it seems like CKD only does "scumhunting" when it has the benefit of getting someone off their back

.

That's what being "defensive" in a scummy way looks like -- there's no legitimate scumhunting, only defense.

another post, that is just a complete lie. You cant read my ISO and really believe that. This is just more fluff. I encourage EVERYONE to read my in ISO. Just because you say a thing, doesnt make it true.

there is no way I moving my vote today. He is not misguided at this point. He is trying to fluff up his "case" with nonsense.

[curiouskarmadog]

Bub and ckd

What are your thoughts on other slots in the game

like who? I think I have commented on just about everyone today. Where I am leaning...my thoughts. I am pretty transparent.

[curiouskarmadog]

now I just mad. Forgot how maddening this game could be. backing off for 24 hours.

[curiouskarmadog]

busy with life stuff, will catch up soon.

[curiouskarmadog]

I see bub is at -1. it looks like he is gone until monday.

if he flips scum, I am pretty much dead tonight. that being said, I hope to update things tomorrow/weekend while we wait for his claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am sort of caught up...see we are replacing SOMEONE ELSE..fun.

I have been back and forth on Venmar (though, off the top of my head, I dont recall why I had a townie lean on them at one point), Ill need to go reread my notes.

that being said, I dont feel like

A lot of this reads like "I don't agree with this take, so I'm going to scumread them"

VOTE: Venmar

is a reason to think someone is scummy. Venmar has done OTHER things that I feel is scummy, but not that. for example, I dont believe ("agree with his take") Bub genuinely feels I am scum today, so I am essentially scum reading him. What are your thoughts on that stance?

OFR,

can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.

i guess that the deadline can be (expired on 2023-04-09 13:52:00)

Can we please not need this entire time?

ikr this day is dragging and I am gradually just losing interest a bit.

I feel some of our players will start dying of old age before this day ends.

@Malcolm, Kitty, Sky, Flavor, curious: you should pick one of the biggest wagons at this point.

I'm kind of tapped out because I'm tired of this day. I still think Glitch/Enchant is scum.

VOTE: Skygazer

When Bub posted that...he had maybe one vote on him? I am not seeing why that post is relevant to anything?

[curiouskarmadog]

OFR,

Okay reread your post about WHY you feel Bub is town....

you felt like the vote he made on me page 5 was substantive. You understand that in that vote he said I wasnt scum hunting. Then posted a bunch of my posts but deliberating left out the post where.....I was scum hunting. Even in this day, he has put forward MULTIPLE times I am not scum hunting, but just being defensive.

Specifically, what about that vote made clear sense?

[curiouskarmadog]

doing a quick read here, I will go back an answer the previous question when I have more time (will require some digging for quotes) I can quickly comment on this though

can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.

The way he developed his reads felt natural (see the quotes in 4039), and I think he genuinely believes you're scum.

It's as if he's had this paranoia on you since early day 1 that he hasn't been able to shake off.

Let me put it this way, do you think he would be loltunneling you today as Scum when he is about to get voted out? Your wagon hasn't and will not gain any traction. He's not even voting his biggest counterwagon to survive
I think maybe Bub really just thinks you're scum

go back when he first started the vote. He and Venmar both were testing the waters, to (I feel) gauge interest in a possible wagon. When I called it out, he immediately voted me. He came into this day with an obvious

plan

agenda. He has backed himself into a corner. What other wagon COULD he join at this point?

[curiouskarmadog]

OFR,

Question. Do you feel like D3 I am or am not scum hunting? Why do you feel Bub has been CONSTANTLY saying that? I know you have commented on his page 5 case has substantive. What are your thoughts on his case today?

[curiouskarmadog]

and the reason I keep mentioning the "page 5 case" is because...well...it was page five. It just seems odd to be determining one's alignment (partly) on that. I understand you are/were reading the thread, but we are on D3 and 160+ pages.

@all, I think this point a Bub flip will be quite telling. Why am I wrong?

[curiouskarmadog]

UNVOTE:

Why?

[curiouskarmadog]

If Bub is town, I think sheep is scum, given the approach to the hammer. Enchant is town in that scenario.

really? if BUB was town, and it pretty much if a for gone conclusion he will be the lynch today, would EnchantScum try to garner some town cred?

arent you curious WHY he unvoted? Why just assume that is a town move? If you are curious, why didnt you ask a follow up question?

[curiouskarmadog]

Has Bub been saying you haven't been scumhunting? Bub initially scumread you for your positioning around the Andante wagon, and then later for reflexively sussing him back. So a lot of this is reading TvT to me: CKD thinks Bub was testing the waters early today, Bub doesn't think CKD is scumhunting because CKD's just immediately sussed him back, CKD doesn't think Bub is scumhunting because Bub is tunneled... like you've had this 1v1 simmering below the surface since day 1.

I'll be honest - there are aspects to both of your cases that aren't convincing to me: you accusing Bub for "testing the waters", and Bub's argument that you're just OMGUS'ing to name two

Unfortunately I'm going to be V/LA through Monday the 1st. I will still try to jump on and keep in the game (as long as I'm alive).

I'm just frustrated by everyone's bizarre unwilliningness to wagon Kitty after a string of just blatantly scummy behavior. I dunno, maybe I'm so deep in the tunnel here with confirmation bias or the game has passed me by, but just seems like Kitty is 2x or 3x more likely to be scum than basically every other reasonable suspect combined.

The fake scumhunting,

weirdness on the Andante wagon, likely bus location on the kitty wagon, unbelievably scummy soft PR claim after only a moderate amount of pressure. Basically every time they've inserted themselves into the game it's been for super scummy reasons. Maybe they have scumbuds defending them, but that even seems weird when you consider just how blatantly scummy their behavior is. CKD's iso is indefensible from a town perspective. Just don't get it.

I don't think pushing the person pushing you is intrinsically scummy if you think they're scum,

but it seems like CKD only does "scumhunting" when it has the benefit of getting someone off their back. That's what being "defensive" in a scummy way looks like -- there's no legitimate scumhunting, only defense.

and there was earlier references to it too. its just not true...furthermore, it cant really be chalked up to opinion. "CKD is only scum hunting to get someone off thier back"....you cant read the game and actually believe that. It is a fluff statement that factually is not true.

I mean fuck, he attacked me early D1 for attacking Andante...Andante wasnt attacking me at the time. I called out something I believed was scummy behavior. Its just utter bullshit.

[curiouskarmadog]

and the hammer?

[curiouskarmadog]

i mean, I like the hammer.

but to say his unvote was town motivated AFTER he said he just wanted to hammer.

I was curious what your stance was on the hammer.

[curiouskarmadog]

if Bub is scum, I am pretty much dead tonight..

I would look to Hu as a partner.

I see Star got in to post before the hammer.

if Bub is town and I am dead tonight, I would go with Star....She wanted you guys to see she was here and DIDNT hammer, I mean the lynch was going to happen...BUT SHE DIDNT HAMMER.

[curiouskarmadog]

who is star

look...

you have a star in your avatar.

i want to stop but cant.

[curiouskarmadog]

"sky is scum bc she didn't hammer someone she was townreading" is such a hot take

so why were you tempted?

[curiouskarmadog]

there was a time, that this game made sense.

[curiouskarmadog]

Flavor Leaf, if you are still reading this thread...I just was to gloat a bit...

Gimli is 100% always town, and I will die on that hill.

look, I read you as town...probably the most town. BUT our reads are so different.

And honestly, I think post game if you're town, you're gonna be the one that's gonna be having the wrong reads.

[curiouskarmadog]

...I just want to....

burn probably would have landed better if I could proofread.