Mini 2295 | Star Trek uPick - Fin!

[xyzzy]

what's up y'all it's ya first officer here

VOTE: hebichan

e-2 btw

[xyzzy]

oh my god the deadline is my birthday

[xyzzy]

Is that why you're in such a hurry to wagon hebi?

UNVOTE: hebi, VOTE: xyzzy

yeah. for my birthday this year I would like to be on a successful hebi wagon. pretty hurtful to deny me my very special birthday wish

[xyzzy]

okay so first and foremost I haven't seriously played a game of mafia in... a few years at this point. and I'm going to be entirely upfront about the fact that I'm an ADHD-ass motherfucker and I will lose track of the minutiae of this game the longer it goes, which is why I don't play very often. you can read any game I've ever played as town and you will see me bullshitting and pretending that I remember what happened 20 pages ago. when this happens, know that it is NAI. anyway without further ado,

tbh I don't really believe that Black believes this about Hebichan in 132

I can say with confidence that I am not a strong enough player to read Lady Lambdadelta. either she is town or this game does not come down to my ability to figure out her alignment. that being said, I believe this stuff happening between her and hebichan.

Kokichi getting defensive about being townread by LLD could be scum behavior.

170 Kokichi, I have an offer to make you. I will townread you in exchange for you watching one of the following episodes: The Corbomite Maneuver from the Original Series, Take Me Out to the Holosuite from DS9, or Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach from Strange New Worlds. you have to watch the whole episode and then share in the thread what you thought about it

195 noted.

btw reminder: I use they/them pronouns. (not sure what pronouns the milk uses. should probably find out)

224 is pretty silly. E-2 is, as a matter of fact, not the same thing as E-0. there are situations where putting the game at E-2 as town would be incredibly reckless and would be a reason to read me as scum. that wasn't one.

228 is a bad vote. I strongly disagree with Kokichi's take about RVS but I'm neutral on it read-wise

253 fwiw I am 100% guaranteed to have a low post-count regardless of alignment

[xyzzy]

fair!

[xyzzy]

I

will

note that it was 1 am here on the east coast when I found out the game had started, so I wasn't going to put any effort into my first posts of the game regardless of anything

[xyzzy]

Who’s scum, end of the alphabet?

still feeling that out. get back to me in a few days.

[xyzzy]

I really like 333. good analysis there. one small thing I think is interesting is Black directly calling out that not using contractions might sound robotic -- I wouldn't be inclined to point that out as scum.

338 onwards -- PenguinPower is town. scum does not take eight posts across 5 minutes to wiggle on around to voting on someone (even if it's me)

the interaction between Black and hebichan starting at 350 is very interesting. not sure what it means, but hey

355 oh my god don't spill the plan directly in the thread :/

357 fwiw, in response to GreyICE a post or two later, if someone asked me to coordinate RVS like that as scum, I'd probably be like "sure, whatever, let's do it," but I would never originate a plan like that on my own

358 for the record, I wasn't dodging the question so much as being dismissive of it. that being said, to me the function of RVS is to create tension that can be shaped into reads. voting in a way that creates tension pushes the game in the direction of having things actually happen. jumping on the hebichan wagon turns that wagon into a Thing The Game Is About, which in turn lets people generate reads.

359 don't love this! reads very youth pastor trying to be cool with the teens in a scummy way

quick confession: whenever I've seen a post by KawaiiKame I've just been like "ah! it's my good friend Luz Noceda posting," so I didn't notice their username until like page 8 or 9. I kept seeing people refer to "Kawaii" and being like "hm, not sure which player that is. guess that's a problem for future me to figure out."

btw I'm moving my vote to Aureal at the end of this post because of 359, but I'm just pointing out here that I could see hebi scum being a thing. I put the vote at the end of my Notepad++ document before 368, but you're just gonna have to take my word that me moving my vote isn't a scum buddy maneuver.

god I just watched the page count go up by like 2 while I was responding to posts on page 16. wish me luck

381 I don't care for the "that was pocketing?" comment. on the one hand I'd be willing to believe that Aureal genuinely isn't sure whether daytalk is a default thing or how PTs work. on the other hand I still get such bad vibes from 359, and this doesn't really mitigate those.

just checked: my last scum game was mini 2051 by schadd. thanks, schadd. I got hammered on the day I went to sheetz while driving to Buffalo. makes you think.

404 Frogs barely acknowledged hebichan at all before this vote. concerning.

405 I don't hate this.[/post]

406 I know I said earlier that I would not be prepared to read LLD but this could be scum behavior

408 lol, lmao. hebi, if you haven't done so between now and whenever I'm caught up on the thread, I'd love to hear your role name.

425 this is very, very interesting for reasons I will not be elaborating on at this time.

446 figured this was probably it, but good to have confirmation.

459 good shit!

462fwiw I very strongly considered putting the salamander babies on my list. I could see someone putting something silly and obscure like a random specific borg.

464 okay just to clarify, you know the role name of the other borg, and it's someone who

isn't

a canon borg?

489 it's not out of the question imo

517 changed my mind from 406. this is town LLD

frogs, I'd forgotten who was in your hydra until it came up just now. alisae, one of the games I opened trying to find my last scum game was [url=viewtopic.php?t=79232]micro 862[/post]. good shit

VOTE: Aureal

[xyzzy]

So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi

I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-

It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this

The last one should be the only one that matters.

eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.

[xyzzy]

357 fwiw, in response to GreyICE a post or two later, if someone asked me to coordinate RVS like that as scum, I'd probably be like "sure, whatever, let's do it," but I would never originate a plan like that on my own

Uhhhhhhh. That post. I came back here to muse about what Grey's "I'm probably a miller" claim meant in context of there being a 3P which LLD suspects he belongs to. And now you remind us of this post where he comments about the borg. My head is spinning.

tbh I don't make anything of that post. I can definitely imagine someone just assuming the scum in this game are borg-flavored without any basis for that assumption other than it being an obvious idea.

358 for the record, I wasn't dodging the question so much as being dismissive of it. that being said, to me the function of RVS is to create tension that can be shaped into reads. voting in a way that creates tension pushes the game in the direction of having things actually happen. jumping on the hebichan wagon turns that wagon into a Thing The Game Is About, which in turn lets people generate reads.

So you just grab a random wagon, try to drive it up really high really fast, and hope nothing bad happens? Is this your normal playstyle?

it's been three years since the last time I played, so I'm not sure I have a normal playstyle, but it's at least where I'm at right now.

359 don't love this! reads very youth pastor trying to be cool with the teens in a scummy way

Hey now! Scumread me if you want, but I draw the line at calling me a "youth pastor"!

fair enough!

381 I don't care for the "that was pocketing?" comment. on the one hand I'd be willing to believe that Aureal genuinely isn't sure whether daytalk is a default thing or how PTs work. on the other hand I still get such bad vibes from 359, and this doesn't really mitigate those.

Is it on the site somewhere that it's a default thing??? I'm not even sure where to look for that! It seems extremely common but my experience could be misdirecting me. Many games explicitly state that mafia can communicate at all times- it's required to be stated for Normal games according to the Encryptor wiki page, and I've only played Normals and Opens.

Why are we even arguing about this??

my point was that you had the tone of someone who

does

know how PTs work because you're scum in this game, and in lying about it, you oversold it.

517 changed my mind from 406. this is town LLD

Are you saying that because you think she's right or wrong or just the way she says it?

the latter.

p-edit:

Wanna claim?

no???

[xyzzy]

I woke up 5 minutes ago and will respond to your post more coherently later on today, but GreyICE, I already gave a polite "hey remember that my pronouns are they/them" in response to you misgendering me. I sincerely hope I do not have to bring it up a third time.

[xyzzy]

Man I hate the emojis in this sometimes

jsyk you can use actual emojis by writing their names surrounded by colons. for example,

Code: Select all

:heart_eyes_cat:

becomes

anyway, Kawaii's reaction here reads as real clueless and not fake to me. that being said, that's not necessarily town-indicative; scum presumably wouldn't have known about Frogs' ability (barring something nonsensical like a day role cop), so the second death would still be a surprise to clueless scum.

[xyzzy]

I’m confused why you think miller would trip a motion detector?

because most of the millers i've seen in recent games trip tracking style roles?

like, it's an investigative, millers are meant to give false investigative results.

I feel pretty confident saying that if GreyICE is a miller, that's not how the role works.

[xyzzy]

I’m confused why you think miller would trip a motion detector?

because most of the millers i've seen in recent games trip tracking style roles?

like, it's an investigative, millers are meant to give false investigative results.

I feel pretty confident saying that if GreyICE is a miller, that's not how the role works.

Why are you that confident?

Also he's literally not a miller, is no one reading?

just am.

and I think there's a very strong probability that GreyICE is either lying or just wrong about being a miller, though I'd like to hear more about their reasons for that claim.

[xyzzy]

Like my heart says vote Xyzzy they're obvious scum.

as far as I can tell, the only thing I've done that you've said was scummy was have a differing philosophy about how to respond to a survivor claim. do you have any other basis for that at all?

[xyzzy]

Like my heart says vote Xyzzy they're obvious scum.

as far as I can tell, the only thing I've done that you've said was scummy was have a differing philosophy about how to respond to a survivor claim. do you have any other basis for that at all?

We'll put it on your tombstone: "Caught for the wrong reasons."

Vote: Xyzzy

okay, so to be clear, the answer to my question is no. good to know

[xyzzy]

you're flying under the radar in a way that I don't love

VOTE: PenguinPower

[xyzzy]

I'm aware you were v/la. my vote is about how you've been the whole game so far.

[xyzzy]

honestly not sure what question you have for me here! one of the only comments you've actually made about me so far is that I have fewer posts than you. which, sure, that's true. but the vast majority of your posts have been basically contentless.

you also said that I could've asked why you voted for Wavelength. and that's true! I could've asked you that. I didn't, though, because I already felt very strongly that I knew the answer to that question, which I think I made pretty clear in my vote for you. if you think I was wrong about that, you're perfectly welcome to explain why I was wrong.

[xyzzy]

honestly not sure what question you have for me here! one of the only comments you've actually made about me so far is that I have fewer posts than you. which, sure, that's true. but the vast majority of your posts have been basically contentless.

you also said that I could've asked why you voted for Wavelength. and that's true! I could've asked you that. I didn't, though, because I already felt very strongly that I knew the answer to that question, which I think I made pretty clear in my vote for you. if you think I was wrong about that, you're perfectly welcome to explain why I was wrong.

Sure sure -

338 onwards -- PenguinPower is town. scum does not take eight posts across 5 minutes to wiggle on around to voting on someone (even if it's me)

What changed from this read for you to drop me to scum worth voting?

after your day 2 vote, I gave your ISO a read and felt you were avoiding committing to any specific takes.

can you tell me more about the day 1 strategy you mention in 828? I'll admit that you

have

become more engaged in the game since I voted you, and I'm curious what your perspective is on what you were doing during day 1.

also hey please remember y'all: I am a they/them pronoun haver. thanks!

[xyzzy]

mmhmm...you went from "this is town" to "this is scum" when the only posts I made in between were "i'm v/la" and "vote: wavelength"

So your first read was bs or is your second?

I changed my mind after your vote and after looking at your ISO. that assessment was a reaction to that specific string of posts, but when I looked at your activity as a whole along with that vote, I felt differently. changing my opinion on you once after rereading and you make a vote doesn't mean one of those opinions is unfounded.

I've already answered this in this game.

not really, no — you said that your strategy was interrupted by the claim, and you mentioned that you tend to follow wagons on day 1, but that's not a complete picture.

I've become more engaged in the game since I came back from v/la!?!?

this comparison is between everything you did up until your Wavelength vote and everything you've done afterwards.

anyway your whole post was in bad faith and I don't believe you think I mean any of the things you're saying I mean

[xyzzy]

I'm on the record saying I'm leaning town for LLD, but I don't think scum reading her is evidence of Aureal scum. I'm gonna take some time later on to reread Aureal, because I don't have much of a read right now, but that piece of info alone isn't enough to sway me.

also, page top

[xyzzy]

hello! tomorrow is my birthday and today was the day I actually celebrated, so I have had a long, busy day. I've read the last few pages, but it was a skim during a few free minutes earlier this morning.

that being said, GreyICE, can you tell me more about your role? first, I'd like to know more about your miller claim and what went into that. second, I'd like to know more about what mechanics and flavor your death ability is.

[xyzzy]

I know what's been said about that already. I want to hear the full story from GreyICE, because I feel like a lot of the details there for glossed over.

[xyzzy]

We’re reboot ahura, we send someone a communications device twice a game and can send them messages throughout the next day and night cycle.

If they’re also from the reboots we get a neighborhood.

I wanted to target LLD and spend the day sending her WHOPPER WHOPPER WHOPPER WHOPPER. Mala said she was going to die. We couldn’t agree on anyone else.

We thought maybe frogs would be from the reboots but we could t think of whoever else would be from them

But this all just a meticulously thought out fakeclaim so please kill me now that it’s out

so this is functionally very similar to hebichan's role, but on a slightly different vector. I'd love to know if anyone else has a role that's functionally identical to this (target a player, get a neighborhood if they have a particular flavor trait).

can you clarify what exactly counts as a reboot for the purpose of your role? which shows and/or movies?

[xyzzy]

If someone claims they roleblocked me they can be interogated about it.

If NO one claims it, scum did it and it proves me town.

the more you take the game in this direction, the more it feels like you're trying to coast through a day 1 bus to an easy win by selling yourself as authoritative and Obviously Still Right About This One

VOTE: LadyLambdadelta

[xyzzy]

hello. I was prodded. this is a post.

hey GreyICE, 1)for the love of god please stop misgendering me lol and 2)you didn't answer my questions from yesterday about your claim.

[xyzzy]

look, i'm just gonna claim somethign that will probably make this game more manageable.

my ability last night that was blocked and refunded was called a Pacifist Councelor. I target someone and if they have access to a "non-factional kill" I prevent them from using it for the rest of the game.

So, essentially, here's what I think is going on.

Hebi's role said "you gain X powers if Y dies" right?

So I'm thinking that we have ONE scumteam, and that scumteam has ONE player who can feasably make kills, making it a NON FACTIONAL kill that passes down to other players upon their death so that the scumteam is never without a killing power.

We're not in multiball, probably, it's just a weird scum mechanic thing.

mechanically, it seems like this setup has a substantial amount of ways that kills can be prevented — if both you and GreyICE are town

and

this isn't multiball, that would require a pretty substantial power boost to scum, which isn't really reflected in Hebichan's role.

[xyzzy]

hey MB, GreyICE claimed to have a one-shot death immunity (but didn't clarify what stipulations were on that) and a miller modifier. I asked for some clarification on the flavor and details of both of those and never got it. could you please go into some details about that

[xyzzy]

hey MB, GreyICE claimed to have a one-shot death immunity (but didn't clarify what stipulations were on that) and a miller modifier. I asked for some clarification on the flavor and details of both of those and never got it. could you please go into some details about that

the fact that this is the only thing xyzzy feels compelled to comment on after a million years just feels incredibly scummy

like, i would expect town to be concerned about the mechanics, i'm not faulting that

but it feels like they don't have anything else they're interested in and they're just hiding behind this mechanical confusion in lieu of actually doing anything

I have a specific reason to be curious about this that I'd like to not get into until I have an answer; GreyICE avoided my question, and I think it'll be very telling if MB chooses to do the same.

[xyzzy]

yeah, sure, let's do this

VOTE: porkens

[xyzzy]

I don't think scum Kokichi makes a ton of sense given how they've voted — they don't strike me as the type of person to bus on day 1 and then hop onto a completely irrelevant wagon on a day when we eliminate town. there's a good chance the Hebi wagon could've been avoided day 1 without their participation in it.

[xyzzy]

hi, can you please answer this today

yeah, actually, six players and probably just one scum left seems like a reasonable time to spill the beans.

I'm Una Chin-Riley, Number One from the original pilot and Strange New Worlds. (I mentioned the fact that I'm a first officer in my first post of the game.)

if you haven't seen Strange New Worlds, this is spoilers for that: I'm secretly an Illyrian, a species banned from the Federation for genetic modification.

this has two effects: first, the first time a non-elimination kill would happen to me, I survive. second, I'm a miller — the exact wording of the results someone investigating me would receive describe me as not part of the temporal alliance rather than specifically identifying me as a member of a non-town faction.

which, I'm sure you've picked up on, is the exact same claim that GreyICE made. it's very possible that fferylit opted to include two identical roles, but the fact that GreyICE introduced the miller possibility as speculation rather than an explicit role PM detail sure is weird. as noted, we've had a scum role and a town role that both have a "target a player, if they share this flavor component with you, you get a neighborhood with them" aspect.

so it feels not out of the question that, during balancing, some scum roles were given equivalent town roles (or vice versa), and scum are informed about this aspect of the setup. hence both GreyICE and MB being so cagey about that claim once I started asking questions. that being said, that

would

have to be a decision made after alignments were randomized, and I'm not sure whether such a big change is probable. it's also possible that there were just multiple overlapping roles from the start. that doesn't really provide a satisfying answer to GreyICE's weird miller claim, though — if you're claiming miller as a town player, I can't see a good reason to hedge it as being speculation about the setup.

[xyzzy]

I got a question to xyzzy
if you know you're a miller then why didn't you claim it at d1?
thats 100% should be your first posts of the game instead of a flavor hint

it would've been good for the town if I'd been the target of a night kill; if I claim miller, scum is directly incentivized to leave me alone. I'm also not convinced it would've been at all beneficial to the town — a miller claim is inherently super WIFOM-y. there's obviously the drawback that an investigative role might waste a night checking me instead of just assuming I'd for sure come up scum, but that drawback doesn't outweigh the benefit of possibly blanking a night kill imo.

[xyzzy]

GreyIce neverclaimed bulletproof
I see how it could be misunderstood
but I'm treestump

I'm Weyoun Six, member of the Temporal Alliance. The first time I die, I stick around.

...huh. I guess that claim technically

could

be treestump. I honestly can't come up with a valid assessment for why a town player would go for that (GreyICE very clearly wanted to create that ambiguity), but I also can't refute that it's possible that's what happened, and I can't see how it would be a beneficial move as scum.

[xyzzy]

oh hey it's my join date-iversity. happy sixteen years to my account. time for the milk carton to go take their driver's test

[xyzzy]

auriel who did you target the previous nights?

@Kokichi
@Penguin
@petapan
We need your fullclaims

i don't have any night actions

what is your role then?

I'll be revealed in 1 real life day from now. No need to worry. Question is who do you think is scum and why

it's been a day. time for you to do the thing.

[xyzzy]

hello. Kokichi, while I'd really like actual confirmation of your role, barring that, can you go into some detail about the flavor?

[xyzzy]

I really need you to explain in depth why you've cleared MB and Kokichi, petapan. I asked earlier and you never elaborated- I really don't follow how there being a mafia roleblocker clears MB. I don't see how Kokichi's role is obvious let alone that it must be town. While I agree that Penguin's roleclaim is weak, we really need this stuff spelled out if it's true and we end up in MELO.

greyice was motion detectd as going nowhere on night 1, which in all likelihood means he is not the roleblocker as i would assume the roleblocker would have acted night 1. I also think mislim bait is being towny?


read wavelength's flip. i think kokichi is pretty clearly the counterpart to that role. that doesn't preclude being a scum roleblocker necessarily i just kind of think the way he went about it was towny and him sniping at me yesterday read more like disinterested town who was hung up on their pet read over scum who was feeling a threat from a new replacement

by contract, penguinpower's role feels like it more or less counter claims yours by being a protective and that's slightly too much protective power for the setup i think, plus one-shot doc is just a little too weak compared to everyone else's role

I think that assumption about Kokichi's role makes sense, but that's why I want to know the flavor — that part would be harder to fake for someone not as familiar with the source material.

[xyzzy]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[xyzzy]

We've never actually heard Kokichi's full claim
like is it 100% identical to wavelength or what's his flavor

guess scum will have to kill me to find out

why aren't you willing to at least claim your role name? I can understand that it's possible that you think it's not a good idea to fully claim, but this also just seems harmful to the town.

[xyzzy]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[xyzzy]

VOTE: PenguinPower

given where we'll presumably be if the game goes to day 6, this is the only sensible choice — I'll question the credibility of anyone who doesn't agree tbh