large normal 243: lindOVER

[Cephrir]

my cats are attacking my monitors and stepping on my keyboard

perhaps i can appease them by offering a canine sacrifice

VOTE: andante

[Cephrir]

update: it didn't work

[Cephrir]

First game in nearly 10 years. The meta's still to random vote at the start of day 1 I assume?

these votes are all deadly serious

[Cephrir]

I appreciate y'all trying so hard out the gate but I think most of what's been argued so far isn't really alignment indicative

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

[Cephrir]

http://www.vom.com

[Cephrir]

and my interpretation is that voting or not voting in rvs isn't a meaningful decision; feel free to make something of it if it makes you happy tho

[Cephrir]

that was a really interesting reaction to greeting's post

It's consistent for this person:

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

VOTE: Cephir

(Snip)

[Cephrir]

if we're going to do a lolturbowagon it seems kind of mean, though i'll admit maybe effective to target the person who's playing presumably their first game

[Cephrir]

I appreciate y'all trying so hard out the gate but I think most of what's been argued so far isn't really alignment indicative

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

I actually do think there was something here that was strange, and the fact you glossed over it is strange.

you mean 33? i agree that is slightly weird, i didnt notice it at the time

[Cephrir]

if we're going to do a lolturbowagon it seems kind of mean, though i'll admit maybe effective to target the person who's playing presumably their first game

I don't need the soft defending, I can do so myself if I need to defend myself. This post seems like being on the fence. While not wanting to actually vote, saying voting it is fine

i don't think you're going to like my playstyle then

[Cephrir]

i can only wish i were such a genius

[Cephrir]

i think bub's analysis is actually fairly decent all things considered (i.e. it's page 6) but i prefer a different one of his suspects

VOTE: glitch

[Cephrir]

I'm fine if we push this slot to a claim.

seems really premature to me

[Cephrir]

how are 17 players generating less than 2 pages a day zzzz

[Cephrir]

I'm fine if we push this slot to a claim.

seems really premature to me

I dont see why it is? Whats the point of this wagon if not to lim them or get information out of them that makes us not want to lim them?

To see how they react

Idk he only has a handful of posts and I got town vibes off a couple of them so even though I do see why this wagon exists I'm skeptical

[Cephrir]

I'll sheep the CKD case.

VOTE: CKD

do you have any other thoughts about the game so far

Pretty sure you and Bub are both town.

Though my read on you is... tenuous af and is basically null.

How do you go from “pretty sure” to “tenuous”? In the span of 2 posts?

I reskimmed since then and now I'm not really feeling it.

I actually think this is +town for KT

[Cephrir]

Kowah is probably town too yeah?

Yes it's quite obvious

[Cephrir]

It's meta to a degree but I'm more simply pointing out Andante's jokey early tone and attempt to make friends is conductive to their approach as town and I've seen it before. It doesn't particularly alarm me at this stage of the game.

I don't think their vote on you is astonishingly fleshed out, but their logic that they think the scumread is really weak in a way they don't believe to be town feels consistent enough that it again doesn't ping or worry me at all.

Any games specifically that Andante opens jokingly as town/is this all encompassing play? What scumread is really weak in a way they don't believe to be town? I'm commenting in media res so I'm in confusion with the context

This is NAI it's just andante's personality

[Cephrir]

Uh townread not townreads.
I only need one name.

Kow, with Bub a close second

[Cephrir]

I am having... A Thought Process

@ckd- why did you call for a wagon on yourself as opposed to someone else?

[Cephrir]

Btw I think promising content and failing to deliver it is a scumteam and that's why I'm voting glitch

[Cephrir]

Scumtell**

[Cephrir]

is that "the gamestate being weirdly closed off" or "you not agreeing with anyone who was posting content"

[Cephrir]

cephy is town

God damn it how can you telllllll

[Cephrir]

I am having... A Thought Process

@ckd- why did you call for a wagon on yourself as opposed to someone else?

I have one of those posting/playing styles that gets a lot of action (wagons/votes) no matter my alignment. Dont know why...

AT ANY RATE, felt like my wagon would be the easiest to get started. Would I prefer a different one? yep....but look at the info mine as already reaped.

Darn, makes sense but not the answer I was hoping to slot into my thoughts

One thing I noticed was that your calling for a large wagon shows a consistent thought process with your focus on vote movement to get reads

I was thinking you potentially might have wanted votes on yourself because you know you're town, making those votes even more information heavy for your personal scumhunting process. I was prepared to drop a solid townread if I got that answer :p

[Cephrir]

actually yeah sure

lmaooo ohh good luck with this "fight" dog cause I am back. Stress be gone. You want me here? oh I'm here, no longer that easy push cause I had no posts...

VOTE: Andante

[Cephrir]

Hello all, sorry for being so inactive. I came down with a fever Friday night and felt like death all day yesterday. Much better today. Taking some time to dive deeper through the thread from the beginning. As I go I'll make a few posts so I don't end up with one big wall of text.

Page 1
Post 21 breaks right out of the gate with horrible logic. Bub light SR’s Kawaii or Hu Tao saying their “hello” posts were scummy for not contributing anything and being non-commital. Bub admits that it’s weak and it is. However he makes a somewhat more palatable point that based on intros alone, Kawaii and Hu Tao are not scum together because 18+19 as both scum would be unlikely. However IMO this is underestimating the power of scum theatre.

Page 2
Post 30 I appreciate ballpoint calling out the bad reasoning in 21.

33 strikes me as quite off. Curiouskarmadog quotes the terrible post 21, agrees with it, and then just jumps on to the other person that was framed as scummy for saying hello. Curious says that they dislike players getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. But Curious just jumps on to the reasoning in 21, which was bad reasoning to begin with, uses it to cast a vote without having to do anything, then turns and says they’re suspicious of Bub for FOSing. ???

In 38, when confronted on the weakness of the reasoning in 21, Bub immediately recants saying "yeah I know it's weak logic but I said it was in the original post." But I appreciate in 39 the dig to generate conversation.

In 41 Cephrir says "everything so far is NAI" and then STD FOS's Cephrir. Why?

46: I think ballpoint reasons in a way that I relate with a lot. I appreciate the way they think and examine things.

let me play the devil's advocate to your accusation: what you pointed out isn't unique to those two users, since savethedragons (i'll abbreivate to STD if that's ok) also just said "hi" without casting a vote, so wouldn't the same kind of logic apply to them?

and while people do vote for reasons during rvs its redundant because these are completely unaligned reasons that would be the same regardless of rand, so the votes are equally as non-commital and passive as the entrances, and the argument falls apart pretty quickly because of that

Sure, it's just the the timing that seemed a little...eh to me. Sort of "hey, let's show my face so everyone knows I'm cool but not actually try to move towards finding scum>" I'll admit it's weak and I'm not married to this tell, but my general read of scum behavior is that they're like politicans who'll pop in to show themselves but don't actually want to be attached to a wagon.

I'm much more confident in my read that it's very unlikely both Hsu and Kawaii are both scum just because of their interaction. It just seems like scum wouldn't banter with each other about such fluff just right out of the gate.

I'm with

STD

and

Cephrir

on this one.

And, as a matter of fact, one game when I was mafia, I tried pushing a similar point to move up the pace and fake a contribution.

This is weird. What has STD said that makes you "with them?" STD has contributed practically nothing. What are you talking about?

---

Be back with more in a bit.

i can't tell if this user is awkward or scum but woof

[Cephrir]

im still bugged about the absurd amounts of AtE but CKD's posts have gotten slightly more reasonable minus the capitalization
VOTE: Greeting

????

[Cephrir]

I'm fine if we push this slot to a claim.

seems really premature to me

I dont see why it is? Whats the point of this wagon if not to lim them or get information out of them that makes us not want to lim them?

To see how they react

Idk he only has a handful of posts and I got town vibes off a couple of them so even though I do see why this wagon exists I'm skeptical

Are you really going to get a reaction, or even better a proper reaction, out of someone if they're never in danger of being limmed?

they don't know they're in no danger of being limmed, and tbh they probably are in danger even if, say, my vote specifically is just for pressure

[Cephrir]

a bit yeah, i expect the bravado but i also expect you to back it up and you disappeared after posting that

[Cephrir]

what exactly am I supposed to back up? I see a freaking wagon on me right now, and what is the actual case?

All I know is you did this whole *cracks knuckles* alright get ready for a fight routine and then nothing

That's the reason for my vote, it's not like it's stuck there forever

[Cephrir]

If you're not an easy lim, show it by finding some scum :3

[Cephrir]

(i would much prefer the outcome where im able to find you town, since i think you're quite enjoyable to play with ^^)

[Cephrir]

The confusing thing to me now is that I scum read Curious for their ISO. But two of my three other scum reads are on him. Which makes me feel less confident in him being scum now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Greeting

I'm going back here.

honestly i recommend not worrying about this

don't try to solve the whole game at once -- it's not realistic

[Cephrir]

not a good response from andante
i might go meta diving, but if you have a point, then just prove it instead of wasting posts on AtE

you will find a lot of ATE from both sides in that meta dive. saved you an hour

[Cephrir]

yes. catch one scum, then figure out who their partners are after you have information. you'll run yourself in circles trying to preflip and solve on info that could be wrong

it's how i play anyway. sure, if someone has zero plausible partners, that's an issue, but otherwise, don't twist yourself in knots not eliminating someone scummy because your other scumreads are bussing them

[Cephrir]

not letting my current mood change my gut read/feeling here

Hmm you almost had me for a moment there

[Cephrir]

@fen penny for your thoughts on andante

[Cephrir]

not letting my current mood change my gut read/feeling here

Hmm you almost had me for a moment there

I also went "there's no votes there, and at this point I assume no one is flipping to someone with no votes"

like, I will happily vote there

VOTE: Kawaii

I mean you almost had me townreading you :p

[Cephrir]

Alright that's good enough for now

VOTE: glitch

[Cephrir]

@fen penny for your thoughts on andante

town

Ok

I thought this would settle me but I feel like this could be her replicating it so maybe I was just hoping you would agree with my uncertainty

But I'll leave it alone for now

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: curious wagon

Spoiler:

camae ayewa (moor mother)

vote count 1.5 !

curiouskarmadog (4):

Hu Tao, Bub Bidderskins, KittyTacky, Andante

Andante (4):

curiouskarmadog, GuyInFreezer, Flavor Leaf, Cephrir

Greeting (3):

NJAC, ballpointpen, Kowahbunga

Glitch (1):

Greeting

Hu Tao (1):

Save The Dragons

Flavor Leaf (1):

KawaiiKame

Cephrir (1):

Skygazer

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Glitch

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to put someone in the machine. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-04-02 13:48:07)

moderateur notes

• no prods administered! in fact everyone has posted in the last uh 25 hours

like, I'm not placing a vote on FL, ignoring that, and going "yeah karma dog scummy!!!" while not voting karma dog...
yet you have us the same??

I was saying if you right about Karma easy eliminating you Karma has a scum mindset, how is Karma voting you an easy elimination?

someone not posting? I hadn't done anything, how was I not an easy lim when karma started voting me?
I don't get what you are asking

In IS0 the push against you makes 0 sense, like you said nothing that would indicate you as scum, confused when reading, like what?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: curiouskarmadog

So now we're actually getting a little action and traction. Hu Tao, Bub, Kitty, Andante, and Kawaii are on the curious wagon. I don't think a PR claim on D1 means that scum is guaranteed to be on the wagon. But I do think it gives sufficient reason for a bit of pressure there. Bub is in my town bucket which leaves me interested in ISO'ing Hu Tao, Kitty, Andante, and Kawaii. I'm gonna do that now.

Can we please just eliminate this person

[Cephrir]

I would also happily vote for ballpointpen

[Cephrir]

In fact I think I'll do it now

VOTE: ballpointpen

Lots of words but most of them are boring

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: curious wagon

Spoiler:

camae ayewa (moor mother)

vote count 1.5 !

curiouskarmadog (4):

Hu Tao, Bub Bidderskins, KittyTacky, Andante

Andante (4):

curiouskarmadog, GuyInFreezer, Flavor Leaf, Cephrir

Greeting (3):

NJAC, ballpointpen, Kowahbunga

Glitch (1):

Greeting

Hu Tao (1):

Save The Dragons

Flavor Leaf (1):

KawaiiKame

Cephrir (1):

Skygazer

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Glitch

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to put someone in the machine. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-04-02 13:48:07)

moderateur notes

• no prods administered! in fact everyone has posted in the last uh 25 hours

like, I'm not placing a vote on FL, ignoring that, and going "yeah karma dog scummy!!!" while not voting karma dog...
yet you have us the same??

I was saying if you right about Karma easy eliminating you Karma has a scum mindset, how is Karma voting you an easy elimination?

someone not posting? I hadn't done anything, how was I not an easy lim when karma started voting me?
I don't get what you are asking

In IS0 the push against you makes 0 sense, like you said nothing that would indicate you as scum, confused when reading, like what?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: curiouskarmadog

So now we're actually getting a little action and traction. Hu Tao, Bub, Kitty, Andante, and Kawaii are on the curious wagon. I don't think a PR claim on D1 means that scum is guaranteed to be on the wagon. But I do think it gives sufficient reason for a bit of pressure there. Bub is in my town bucket which leaves me interested in ISO'ing Hu Tao, Kitty, Andante, and Kawaii. I'm gonna do that now.

Can we please just eliminate this person

Ceph

Ceph

Bad != scum

I think it's forced content

[Cephrir]

Softclaiming a vague power-role is absolutely the scummiest possible reaction to building pressure.

At this point I'm locked in on the CKD wagon.

yeah I am soft claiming....if the definition of a power role is non-vanilla, then yeah, I am a "power role".

ALSO this isnt in reaction to the wagon, it is a reaction to me leaving for the rest of the week.

A full claim will not help town at all.

If you want to find out what I am, you will have to kill me tonight.

Can you explain why not? If you have a strong role then it may be more helpful for us to know and gives a better indication you are indeed town.

He expressly stated it is not a strong role, didn't he?

[Cephrir]

Because most of us don't even know if the wagon was on town or scum yet

[Cephrir]

Btw gif what's gotten into you I don't think I've ever seen you try this hard before

[Cephrir]

I guess I'm committed to defending ckd now. But that also means I need to provide an alternative. I don't think I can get Andante wagon to work with 4 days left.

...Does anyone townread Skygazer?

No, but can I interest you in ballpoint

[Cephrir]

i guess i could go skygazer it feels a little bit like throwing up our hands and taking the slightly >rand option over really trying but that's not the worst thing ever

[Cephrir]

is the person with no posts ever actually scum these days?

yeah, usually

[Cephrir]

kitty why are you more active here than in the game we just finished together where you were town?

I'm getting caught up, and I really dislike this post. It feels like a misleading POV where they don't want to just come out and say what they're thinking, they want to plant a seed and let people come to that conclusion.

also, this person complaining about someone else's activity is hmm

[Cephrir]

Because most of us don't even know if the wagon was on town or scum yet

Yes. But when we're all arguing over weak wagons and flimsy cases, then someone makes a claim that I find reasonably acceptable to believe at this stage at the game, why shouldn't that warrant at least examining the wagon on the PR-claiming player?

Because most of us don't even know if the wagon was on town or scum yet

[Cephrir]

...Does anyone townread Skygazer?

9:34pm

i guess i could go skygazer it feels a little bit like throwing up our hands and taking the slightly >rand option over really trying but that's not the worst thing ever

10:05pm

is the person with no posts ever actually scum these days?

10:09pm

been unexpectedly busy, will be able to make more of an effort soon but i gotta go pass out now

10:13pm

I'm not one to believe activity is alignment indicative. However, the timing of this is to me. A 40 minute block of suspicion gets their attention immediately. Like the immediate scenario that ran through my head was:

GIF posts suspicion of Sky, no worry yet...
Ceph posts they kind of want to look that way too... FOUR minutes and suddenly the busy bee finds a break in their schedule.

It's a conspiracy at best, because I have no way to prove it. But that's how it looks to me. Sky was already on my radar for 364 - so this may just be me wanting it to be true. I just think it looks suspicious to me.

yeah this is a real scumtell it's called beetlejuicing

[Cephrir]

Like I appreciate you trying but people being online at the same time meaning they're scum together is so flimsy.

did you read the post that's not what it says

[Cephrir]

if i had three dayvigs skygazer glitch and ballpoint would all be dead

[Cephrir]

still happy w my vote

be back later

You shouldn't be, its doing jack shit there and you still haven't posted a reason

[Cephrir]

thanks to ms' functions i couldn't find a mini normal where andante was put in the same-ish scenario as this game but i did look up one of their recent scum games and they weren't quite that reactionary
i still don't think that scum would really be that frantic and OMGUS-y over a couple of remarks, and its more like paranoid town instead of scum scrambling to try and start a wagon that would obviously never happen (post #328)

i have been reading over malcolm's posts every day and im feeling more scummy now than before
and he's still keeping up this weird shady notion that im scummy without acting on it
like i did admit that i didn't want to reveal my thoughts early in the game hence why i was mainly focused on questioning rather than posting my reads but he never answered to that and now i don't know if he actually acknowledged that point
its weird that i don't really know where he stands when it appears that his reads are fleshed out but upon looking closely most of them are hollow

That's more like it

VOTE: skygazer

[Cephrir]

So would you unvote someone who claimed anything besides doctor then

[Cephrir]

*spooky jazz hands*

[Cephrir]

i literally forgot that person existed

[Cephrir]

miller is not a power role

[Cephrir]

eh i guess the way ckd worded he could just be outright neg utility

[Cephrir]

not miller i dont think but like ascetic sure

[Cephrir]

null

[Cephrir]

no one TRs skygazer either :3

[Cephrir]

in fairness the meta has chnaged while you've been gone in such a way that lurkers are more frequently scum than they used to be

[Cephrir]

i dont know if it applies to stargazer necessarily since they also have been away in the interim but like, players who have been in this meta going after lurkers isn't weird imo

[Cephrir]

I don't hate the NJAC wagon either I need some content people

[Cephrir]

eh, fine

VOTE: hu tao

[Cephrir]

i still dont especially want to kill hu =_=

[Cephrir]

i still dont especially want to kill hu =_=

Then why are you voting for them?

andante really wants me to

i dunno

[Cephrir]

I liked Hu Tao’s posts before Andante push, so don’t really like that Andante went there, especially considering I’m suspicious of Andante and Glitch individually, and it looks a little like a chainsaw, which goes perfectly in line with the chest puffing Andante.

Could you explain what you mean by chainsaw in this context for us time travelers?

Is chainsaw not used anymore in mafia games? Interesting

There were a couple years where people stopped chainsawing in general because it was super super scummy. Then Hatcheting started. Hatcheting is like a chainsaw, but you discredit a push without pushing them to save buddy overly.

don't put your made up words in the newbie's head they might go off and use them and expect anyone to know what they're talking about

[Cephrir]

VOTE: glitch

[Cephrir]

Why is everyone so hesitant to vote

NJAC

out?

From my perspective, a lot of players can be easily ruled out and get town passes for the time being. Meanwhile, that slot contributed literally nothing. If we keep him in the game and allow him to coast around, we will not be moving forward.

Someone pointed out we wouldn't really learn anything useful

[Cephrir]

I seriously only see the same 5 voices talking.. this game is not going to work if it's 5 of us versus 12 lurkers.. like sorry, but just.. if we think about that math for 1 second... I don't even care if you only have 1 read on 1 person right now, like, who is your BEST GUESS for scum? like, I don't care if that answer is me. I would LOVE to start hearing voices. like, if you ignore the wagons, could have all of us sheep you, who would you full send this on?
I WANNA HEAR YALL OUT!!!!

plz

Kowah is pretty scummy imo.

But it's actually even harder than usual for me to read the game when more than half of players just don't exist.

this “end day before useless fluff” post is kinda like… feels like this standard textbook thing to say… like, this game has no one posting, just yesterday I went from a no poster to active, so like.. hmm I’m interested in your kowah sr reasons!!

and yeah I fully agree with you on that one

I don't like Kowah's Greeting push. It just feels very bad faith to twist Greeting's wording like that.

Bro no way it's so obvious kowah really believes that.

[Cephrir]

I have a bad feeling about this day overall

VOTE: NJAC

I'll take an =rand elim over any of the other gettable options

[Cephrir]

my gut says njac flips town so i probably won't help

is there anything you'd rather do because i'm not exactly living for this either

[Cephrir]

we can try glitch again it seems unlikely to work tho

[Cephrir]

VOTE: glitch

protest vote because im scum with njac

[Cephrir]

are they passive or desperate to not eliminate njac pick a lane

[Cephrir]

desperately doing nothing

makes sense

[Cephrir]

you must have gone to the sherlock holmes school of deduction

[Cephrir]

i think maybe i just want an elim and i don't have faith in any of the options

[Cephrir]

but i don't have a better idea either if im honest

[Cephrir]

@Hu Tao:

Who are the scum and why?

you need to answer this question way more than hu tao does

[Cephrir]

how is that the post that merits a comment out of... oh forget it

[Cephrir]

i feel like njac's switch to posting as he goes could be indicative of something

[Cephrir]

if i had three dayvigs skygazer glitch and ballpoint would all be dead

Cephrir's aggressive playstyle doesn't seem natural to me. I'm getting some scum vibes from this slot.

You yourself admit it is a playstyle in this very post ??

[Cephrir]

but i don't have a better idea either if im honest

This doesn't sit well with the aggressive approach that Cephrir showed earlier in the game.

Cephrir is scum, my friends.

It is almost as though people behave differently in response to different situations

[Cephrir]

Flavor Leaf scumreading me should be taken as a towntell

[Cephrir]

Flavor Leaf scumreading me should be taken as a towntell

Why? Care to explain?

we have not gotten along in any game ever, to my knowledge

[Cephrir]

him and i have been active, more active than anyone else. he's my partner till the end of time

if this is a pocket it's a good one i'm such a sap

[Cephrir]

still don't feel good about any of these wagons =_=

[Cephrir]

my point is that he is not great at reading me

you're 0 for 1 but that's not a huge track record

[Cephrir]

towntell referred to for myself, it was tongue in cheek

[Cephrir]

That's really dumb.

VOTE: Cephrir

sorry i didn't know we had entered the no fun zone

[Cephrir]

still don't feel good about any of these wagons =_=

What's a wagon you would feel good about, and is it really Enchant?

It's my best guess right now but no, not really

I'm struggling this game

[Cephrir]

If you want I can invent some fake reads to prove to you that I'd be perfectly capable of doing so if I were scum

I have slow starts sometimes

[Cephrir]

It must be so nice to see the world in black and white

[Cephrir]

I think NJAC is town unfortunately

VOTE: Hu Tao, I guess

Sorry

[Cephrir]

if you all want to vote me so bad, do it

[Cephrir]

i am such an awful scum player that i decided to play in a way that draws suspicion by not having solid suspects. i am just too awful at this game to generate fake reads, so i decided to not have any and hope no one noticed. it's super unlikely that i'm just a town aligned player who doesn't have the answer key to cheat off and feels unsure as a result. also we should probably discount my husband's read on me, he seems like someone who doesn't know what he's talking about

(for those of you scum at home looking for a free in here, this post is sassy)

[Cephrir]

it's not beetlejuicing when you're an active poster and also i just woke up genius

[Cephrir]

hey here's a wild idea what if i'm just right and all these wagons are on town. what am i supposed to do? im voting hu tao only because i think the other wagons are even worse

i can't interest anyone in enchant. malcolm is widely townread for some mysterious reason, we tried skygazer already (and wouldn't you know it, they've gone back to lurking), i don't have any reason for kittytacky they're just not being useful, and that's pretty much everyone i feel like voting. no one is going to vote any of these people with me if i don't have a better reason than "vibes," but i don't

i get offended when i draw suspicion that amounts to "i think you're such a bad scum player that you can't fake any reads" or whatever because i'm actually a very good scum player and perhaps you'll notice i've been on this website for 17 goddamn years surely i learned how to fake a read at some point

[Cephrir]

do we have time to pressure some content out of kittytacky

i don't really understand why the njac wagon still exists tbh

sure i guess there's a small chance his scumbuddies were like "hey you need to pretend to be really sure of something to get out of this" but i don't think that's the most likely explanation

[Cephrir]

leaf will call me scum for existing, that's just par for the course

and tbh i'll probably be calling him scum within a few days though i'll try my best to contain that impulse

[Cephrir]

obviously i am

[Cephrir]

NJAC feels town and it's kinds frustrating that no one is reconsidering reads or anything

today i learned i don't exist

[Cephrir]

I meant it because I really just wanna kill you

feeling a litle more on board with this too

[Cephrir]

i still feel bad about D1ing someone on their first game tho x_x

[Cephrir]

I shouldn't really need meta to convince you that after 17 years I'm not completely clueless about how to play mafia

[Cephrir]

i think they're probably just telling the truth about their posting style and it's likely not indicative of anything

[Cephrir]

i think they're probably just telling the truth about their posting style and it's likely not indicative of anything

What's your reason for scum reading me again?

I'll go with discrediting STD to keep me in the lim pool even though the real reason is vibes

[Cephrir]

i think they're probably just telling the truth about their posting style and it's likely not indicative of anything

What's your reason for scum reading me again?

I'll go with discrediting STD to keep me in the lim pool even though the real reason is vibes

What exactly was I discrediting from Dragon when all he says is he wants to kill people

This interaction just happened how did you already forget it

[Cephrir]

Hu Tao (4):

KawaiiKame, Save The Dragons, Bub Bidderskins, ballpointpen

Save the Dragon: pops in every now and then saying he wants to kill someone

i want to kill someone

cephrir is probably town here guys
greeting too
njac is probably town tho despite having bad takes
hu tao is ???

let's kill hu tao

These are the type of people on my wagon btw. I think ballpoint is the only one who gave an actual reason

Like he's genuinely trying tho

I hope this isn't about cephrir

I meant it because I really just wanna kill you

That's fine. I've kind of written you off as a useless slot anyway. No offense

The second post is the "point" and the others are just discrediting him as a player in general

[Cephrir]

I don't care about any of the above

[Cephrir]

No, nothing you said convinced me that my vote is wrong or lacking merit.

[Cephrir]

I know, it sucks to get caught for the wrong reasons. Sorry mate

[Cephrir]

i just did provide a reason you just don't like it

if you'd like another, you're also behaving as though you know std is town

but i don't think we're going to agree that you are scum so im probably not going to put too much effort into it

[Cephrir]

Yeah, I do.

This whole talking down to me thing isn't really working for me. Feels more aimed at convincing everyone else I'm stupid than actually having a conversation.

[Cephrir]

im not sure i know what the reason for the andante wagon is

did i just forget

[Cephrir]

If Ceph and Greeting wagons are not happening, then between Andante and Hu Tao I prefer the former. I'm not a fan of her erratic play, and her logic is bad.

VOTE: Andante

Ah, so we're voting andante for being andante. Excellent work everyone

[Cephrir]

If Ceph and Greeting wagons are not happening, then between Andante and Hu Tao I prefer the former. I'm not a fan of her erratic play, and her logic is bad.

VOTE: Andante

Ah, so we're voting andante for being andante. Excellent work everyone

Meta defenses. Love it

It's not even meta that's literally her personality

[Cephrir]

Like if she were not erratic I would think she had been replaced by a replicant

[Cephrir]

Whatever keep voting town I guess if you're going to dismiss everything I say out of hand

[Cephrir]

sure, i mean she could absolutely be scum just not for that reason

i don't have a super strong opinion on her i just get annoyed with faulty cases

[Cephrir]

im also annoyed because hu tao has clearly decided to just dunk on everything i say without regard for its validity -- probably because they're scum

[Cephrir]

for me andante is at least hypothetically readable as she will produce content and im null on what she has produced so if we're going to do something kind of meh i'd rather go for a lurker

[Cephrir]

id go whichever of enchant and hu tao has more support

[Cephrir]

hu tao is 1, enchant is another

i dont have this confidence level but i support the general shape of it

[Cephrir]

like hello, Enchant actually does stuff as town. shit posts as scum.

i'd like to voice some support for this

std called this out in a recent game (where enchant was my scum partner) and i looked into it and discovered that he was right

[Cephrir]

know what, please lim me.. cause yall are just... nah I'm over this.
my claim? LMAO have fun, cause if you wanna yeet me last minute like this, means you don't care what my claim is, oh scum will be laughing at this flip

pls don't give up ;_;

[Cephrir]

the fearmongering around a claim is a little scummy but im ignoring that because it conflicts with my worldview

[Cephrir]

Given that Enchant was replacing into a game several pages in I think it's reasonable to give them at least a little leeway early on, so I'm not feeling the enchant wagon.

this is a common line of thought but it's not effective ime

scum replacements are still scum

also if you're expecting enchant to post normal content, dream on - it's not something that will change with time

[Cephrir]

And also the meta tells are starting to really annoy me...and this applies to multiple people. If players are playing well they'll vary their playstyle from game-to-game, people in general grossly overestimate their ability to read people, and self-meta is categorically bs. I don't consider any of the meta stuff to be fruitful at all.

there is some truth to this but i think an important aspect of it that IS worthy of caring about is "x player always does this, so it's NAI"

take enchant for example, he's not going to participate in the game the way most players do regardless of his alignment

[Cephrir]

here's an idea for how to make this day end faster

Spoiler:

vote count 1.f !

Hu Tao (4):

Save The Dragons, ballpointpen, Cephrir, Andante

Andante (4):

Kowahbunga, Enchant, GuyInFreezer, Hu Tao

NJAC (3):

Flavor Leaf, Greeting, Skygazer

Cephrir (2):

NJAC, Venmar

Enchant (1):

KittyTacky

curiouskarmadog (1):

Bub Bidderskins

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, curiouskarmadog

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to put someone in the machine. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-04-05 22:30:00). this is probably once again going to get extended >_>

moderateur notes

• replacing ballpointpen. prodding skygazer

there are a number of players whose votes are doing absolutely nothing here. either make a concerted push for your pet scumread and try to gather some votes, or compromise

[Cephrir]

If you're town and sitting on the sidelines all you're doing is letting scum have their pick between andante and hu tao

[Cephrir]

Their analysis felt forced - ie, their comments were uninteresting in a way that makes me think they were created just to have something to say rather than to scumhunt - and their manner of writing was really stilted and awkward, which could be personality but I don't know them and it could also be scum

[Cephrir]

If you want to go after someone who's constantly jumped to popular wagons, look at Hu. Maybe Cephir as well who constantly seems to complain about how everyone looks vaguely scummy but has never actually pushed anyone.

In what way am I not pushing both Hu and Enchant?

[Cephrir]

Like nothing of this indicates one of us has to be scum. We could both be town and wrong as well. So i don't get the whole 'one has to be scum' thing. And usually is a scummy post from my experience

I do agree with this though. Don't see much reason there has to be a scum in these two

[Cephrir]

i've become much more sure about hu in the last ~5 pages and have been quite clear that i think they are scum and should die at this stage

[Cephrir]

im over the busywork questions just read my posts again if you didn't understand the first time

[Cephrir]

i think they're probably just telling the truth about their posting style and it's likely not indicative of anything

What's your reason for scum reading me again?

I'll go with discrediting STD to keep me in the lim pool even though the real reason is vibes

i think they're probably just telling the truth about their posting style and it's likely not indicative of anything

What's your reason for scum reading me again?

I'll go with discrediting STD to keep me in the lim pool even though the real reason is vibes

What exactly was I discrediting from Dragon when all he says is he wants to kill people

This interaction just happened how did you already forget it

Hu Tao (4):

KawaiiKame, Save The Dragons, Bub Bidderskins, ballpointpen

Save the Dragon: pops in every now and then saying he wants to kill someone

i want to kill someone

cephrir is probably town here guys
greeting too
njac is probably town tho despite having bad takes
hu tao is ???

let's kill hu tao

These are the type of people on my wagon btw. I think ballpoint is the only one who gave an actual reason

Like he's genuinely trying tho

I hope this isn't about cephrir

I meant it because I really just wanna kill you

That's fine. I've kind of written you off as a useless slot anyway. No offense

The second post is the "point" and the others are just discrediting him as a player in general

No, nothing you said convinced me that my vote is wrong or lacking merit.

I know, it sucks to get caught for the wrong reasons. Sorry mate

i just did provide a reason you just don't like it

if you'd like another, you're also behaving as though you know std is town

but i don't think we're going to agree that you are scum so im probably not going to put too much effort into it

Yeah, I do.

This whole talking down to me thing isn't really working for me. Feels more aimed at convincing everyone else I'm stupid than actually having a conversation.

im also annoyed because hu tao has clearly decided to just dunk on everything i say without regard for its validity -- probably because they're scum

please stop misrepping me

[Cephrir]

I didn't say it wasn't but go off king

[Cephrir]

hu tao isn't happening, is it

No. It feels like there is nothing we can do here at all.

I'm getting frustrated

[Cephrir]

Then vote hu tao

[Cephrir]

why do you feel stronger about andante

i don't understand why that wagon even exists

[Cephrir]

i feel like i'm on punk'd this game

because it's as though half the game has collectively decided to just fall all over themselves to do nothing i want and portray everything i do in the worst possible light

it's wild

[Cephrir]

is the case against andante literally just that she's erratic and sometimes doesn't have the best reading comprehension. why will no one believe me that that is her personality.

god i hope this nullread of mine never flips scum i'm going straight to jail if she does but i will never stop my shooting-down-bad-arguments ways

[Cephrir]

hu tao isn't happening, is it

You lost your chance to misvote out a townie. How unfortunate

gloating isn't a cute look on you, scum

[Cephrir]

if i had three dayvigs skygazer glitch and ballpoint would all be dead

still happy w my vote

be back later

You shouldn't be, its doing jack shit there and you still haven't posted a reason

thanks to ms' functions i couldn't find a mini normal where andante was put in the same-ish scenario as this game but i did look up one of their recent scum games and they weren't quite that reactionary
i still don't think that scum would really be that frantic and OMGUS-y over a couple of remarks, and its more like paranoid town instead of scum scrambling to try and start a wagon that would obviously never happen (post #328)

i have been reading over malcolm's posts every day and im feeling more scummy now than before
and he's still keeping up this weird shady notion that im scummy without acting on it
like i did admit that i didn't want to reveal my thoughts early in the game hence why i was mainly focused on questioning rather than posting my reads but he never answered to that and now i don't know if he actually acknowledged that point
its weird that i don't really know where he stands when it appears that his reads are fleshed out but upon looking closely most of them are hollow

That's more like it

VOTE: skygazer

no one TRs skygazer either :3

hey here's a wild idea what if i'm just right and all these wagons are on town. what am i supposed to do? im voting hu tao only because i think the other wagons are even worse

i can't interest anyone in enchant. malcolm is widely townread for some mysterious reason, we tried skygazer already (and wouldn't you know it, they've gone back to lurking), i don't have any reason for kittytacky they're just not being useful, and that's pretty much everyone i feel like voting. no one is going to vote any of these people with me if i don't have a better reason than "vibes," but i don't

i get offended when i draw suspicion that amounts to "i think you're such a bad scum player that you can't fake any reads" or whatever because i'm actually a very good scum player and perhaps you'll notice i've been on this website for 17 goddamn years surely i learned how to fake a read at some point

to my recollection we did kind of try

im not sure why an njac wagon was so much easier to do

[Cephrir]

VOTE: ceph

will explain or change my mind on my lunch break

for those of you keeping score at home, this lunch break has now lasted 10 days

[Cephrir]

im thinking about it but i don't trust you

[Cephrir]

i feel so manipulated tho ;_;

[Cephrir]

because you're the one asking me to do it and i think you're scum so there's a pretty good chance this is a trap

[Cephrir]

VOTE: skygazer

fine i can't get what i want today anyway and it's better than andante

[Cephrir]

is the case against andante literally just that she's erratic and sometimes doesn't have the best reading comprehension. why will no one believe me that that is her personality.

@
Susses me for personality

trolling when you're scum and being a replacement for a player i suspected are your personality?

[Cephrir]

it's not a good point

i'm on punk'd

[Cephrir]

VOTE: ceph

im down

you are already voting me.

[Cephrir]

I think Ceph and Hu might be scum together, those skygazer votes stink hard

i figured it out

i'm on punk'd

it's the only explanation

[Cephrir]

someone try to post something that makes even less sense than that now and see if you can convince me it's real

[Cephrir]

i didn't know i had signed up to play with my husband and 15 clowns

[Cephrir]

i bet scum are just as baffled by the scumreads on me as i am

[Cephrir]

Cephrir employing the "it is just so unreasonable that I am being scumread, I must be getting pranked and trolled" form of defense strategy I see.

yeah saying im scum with hu tao is incredibly unreasonable and you are scum or a clown for saying it

[Cephrir]

VOTE: cephrir

i want out

[Cephrir]

sorry you have to keep playing this one std

i hope you're scum so you can win

[Cephrir]

i bet scum are just as baffled by the scumreads on me as i am

Cephrir employing the "it is just so unreasonable that I am being scumread, I must be getting pranked and trolled" form of defense strategy I see.

yeah saying im scum with hu tao is incredibly unreasonable and you are scum or a clown for saying it

- calls himself town being scumread by town
- calls me possibly scum despite consistently being sus of you since i joined

pick one?

scum are presumably happy to fake a scumread on me in this situation

this post is so dumb i can only assume it's meant to keep me tilted

[Cephrir]

you should all vote for cephrir i hear he's literally hitler and eats babies every night

[Cephrir]

have you ever seen cephrir and the zodiac killer in the same room? i didn't think so

[Cephrir]

we've just received a live feed of cephrir kicking an entire soccer field full of puppies simultaneously

[Cephrir]

It's fun kicking him if he's scum

[Cephrir]

kowahbunga has infinity townie points so losing some costs him nothing

[Cephrir]

although you're wrong that post is +town

[Cephrir]

VOTE: skygazer

just for andante

[Cephrir]

i didn't know i had signed up to play with my husband and 15 clowns

hey hey!! I’m no clown!!! I saw PL and was happy you 2 were here

i briefly considered "my husband, a dog and 14 clowns" but i thought this way was funnier

[Cephrir]

I townread Skygazer

i actually see where youre coming from with this but i need them to show me more.

[Cephrir]

i bet scum are just as baffled by the scumreads on me as i am

What have you done that's townie? Objectively

what does "objectively townie" even mean

im trying to solve the game and pushing for what i believe in - what more can you ask for

i personally feel i should be readable as town on tone here but apparently no one agrees

[Cephrir]

@Ceph who would you put in the machine today if it was all up to you or if you'd rather just answer who is your biggest scum read from today?

enchant

[Cephrir]

Their analysis felt forced - ie, their comments were uninteresting in a way that makes me think they were created just to have something to say rather than to scumhunt - and their manner of writing was really stilted and awkward, which could be personality but I don't know them and it could also be scum

[Cephrir]

interesting, bc i think that series of posts was the first time i've ever experienced leaning town on malcolm in any game

[Cephrir]

like, you don't make early "reads" like this if you aren't SURE

?

[Cephrir]

like, you don't make early "reads" like this if you aren't SURE

?

Why say "early townlean on andante for this" like, if you're giving a read on me, especially as someone who has played a lot of games with me, you should be fairly confident in it. Like, malcolm has been in a lot of the games I've played.. so to me that post is like "ah easy read! andante town!!"

and now all of a sudden I get scum points for?? what?? like FL literally SRs that post that gave malcolm the early tr on me

i think people might give out reads a lil more freely than you think sometimes

[Cephrir]

Don't think Ceph seems scummy at all either.

I think you have TMI that Ceph is town, and you being scum also fits with the "ehhh adante is getting scummy..." you're trying to throw enough shade my way to support the lim on me, after you started the game trying to pocket me...
Cause I can definitely point to something scummy ceph did... not that I SR him right now, but to say "not scummy at all" that's a lie..

Call me crazy but I legit think Malcolm is scum here.
VOTE: Malcolm

This is the kind of shit that's keeping us from doing anything productive this game. Every other day someone like Andate just randomly decides to go after someone completely different based on a conditation scumread.

Malcom's interaction with Cephir only looks scummy if Cephir is scum. Why try to start a nonsenical wagon on someone under no suspicion based on a scumread that's conditional on one of the major wagons being scum? Just vote for Cephir?

TBH I'm not sure how this kind of activity is that benefical if Andate were scum, so to me it reads as anti-town behavior that's not all that alignment indicative.

This day desperately needs to end. We are not learning anything productive by going in circles. For my money Hu is the best bet of people on the board. But stop throwing around random spaghetti at people for whom there is zero chance of a wagon happening this day. Based on how the day/night goes down we can re-assess. But this is counterproductive.

i suspect she would disagree with you about paragraph 2. people can have different opinions

the day does need to end tho, ideally before i lose my mind again

[Cephrir]

like skygazer cares more about "haha I got to beetle juice!!!" than doing literally anything, like why are you concerned about this wagon unless... oh wait, partners

this does give me flashes of them being town and just not caring but it could be a refuge in audacity

[Cephrir]

idk, day ONE just needs to end soon like, if we spend a full year on this.... ahhhhh

I agree let's start with you

why do you have it out for her so bad

[Cephrir]

well pack it up and go home everyone the SS Kill Skygazer just had a huge hole blown in it

[Cephrir]

you could tell us why you voted me in post two seventy something in the same amount of time it takes you to post these excuses

[Cephrir]

i dont know if it's fair to suggest that skygazer hasn't been floated for much of the day

[Cephrir]

i thought njac's content was town, can't speak for others

[Cephrir]

Mmm. Malcolm could be scum after all.

You got anything besides omgus? He doesn't look scummy to me at all

[Cephrir]

What seems not genuine about them

[Cephrir]

Did he vote you for lack of participation tho. I don't think he did, maybe he disliked them all along

Without knowing skygazers alignment I can't do much with this (so help me kill skygazer I guess?)

[Cephrir]

Like I don't think that's him being disingenuous I think it's you not agreeing and that's not a scumtell

[Cephrir]

You could also choose to question him before going to the attack zone tho

[Cephrir]

they've been at lunch for 11 days and at this point im mostly just concerned for their well being

[Cephrir]

Is it even morally conscionable to eliminate someone other than the person actively making fun of the concept of trying

[Cephrir]

Thx I'm always up for a good insult

[Cephrir]

Ugh, stargazer is so anti-town but it really feels like there are scum piling on to that wagon because of how easy it is. It just really has the feel of scum pivoting the town towards the most low-effort target.

Bub is scum btw. This reads so posturing and fake. I can't believe I got bamboozled by you early. I'll take of you day 2 though since no time today anymore.

I'm souring on bub a bit too, he was amazing on like page 2 but... That's it

[Cephrir]

Thx I'm always up for a good insult

wait, was the directed at me? You thought that was an insult? you WERE sad sacking. Voting yourself and throwing a tantrum. I mean..come on.

Thanks, doubling down is usually a good response when someone says they were hurt