Open 875 - The Kindgom of Zeal: The Queens Chosen - GAME OVER

[Umlaut]

Ego, haven't read yet.

[Umlaut]

Oh wow, Ranger is in this game! Hi Ranger!

[Umlaut]

Page 1-2:

• Very strong town vibes on ΛΔ just from page 1 alone
  
• Ranger self-voting is gross and I don't like it (but I don't know if it's scummy gross or just regular gross)
  
• Sail's 31 is so cheeky I want to townread them for that alone
  
• Intangible scum vibes on Penguin for 35 which their later posts don't help
  
• Cephrir is dead null, seems like a hard player to read

[Umlaut]

why do you think the self vote is gross, if it isn't scummy? I get the idea of self voting being gross when that's tied to an emotional play or something that goes against wincon. but there on p2 it was a meaningless vote so I take issue with you pointing it out as if it's meaningful, and I want you to expand on why you think its gross and why it could potentially be scum indicative.

On reflection saying "not sure whether scummy" was technically true but I should have been clear I sort of do find it scummy. Not the self-vote itself, because people self-vote as town all the time (even though I think it's dumb), but the self-vote in combination with what came before and after.

Pretty sure role flips in setup but not night of acting if I remember correctly so will say I act N1. (I should double-check that but full disclosure; I actually forgot this was an open. Thanks to how flavored it was I thought it was a theme. xD)

VOTE: Ranger

I don't see LLD opening this way as scum but it's not worth the effort of debating my alignment with her.

This all seemed like an overreaction to being suspected. Making a claim and self-voting and saying "I don't see any point in arguing this" seems like something you might do as town if you are on the chopping block already but not in response to one person saying you are scum, so it comes off to me as someone trying to "react the way town would react" rather than just exhibiting their true reaction.

[Umlaut]

Page 3 stuff

{Lady Lambdadelta}
{Save The Dragons, Gimli}
{Sail, Detective Penguin, Ethel}
{Korina, (Radical Rat, Umlaut), Cephrir}
{furtiveglance}
{redFF}

Explain Dragons and Gimli townreads? As of this read list neither had done anything but pop in and say hi as far as I can tell. I would have put them right around the nulls.

Penguin what do you make of the LLD/Ranger thing

I like furtive trying to do something here

Penguin starting to look a bit better on page 3, maybe put in null zone.

These reads lists from Ranger get progressively worse lmfao

every SINGLE one has the tell

Are you going to tell the tell or are you keeping it to yourself? (Sail asking the same question in 65 is... good I guess, but not something to hang a read on, it's a pretty obvious question)

every SINGLE one has the tell

I'm quite certain I don't have anything which would be called "the tell".

Perhaps you're thinking of someone else?

Literally the whole point of a tell is that you don't know if you have it. If you knew, and you still had it, it would be called "throwing."

[Umlaut]

Actually

VOTE: Ranger

Best wagon right now. I think this may be L-1 but Ranger can always just unvote herself if she doesn't like that. Don't hammer, lots of day left.

[Umlaut]

I have two reads

I don't see LLD opening this way as scum but it's not worth the effort of debating my alignment with her.

I normally see the hypersolving as a townie trait, but I understand that for ranger this is something she replicates as mafia. nonetheless I think the ranger's townread on LLD looks genuine, when I think as a wolf someone would be more inclined to OMGUS' LLD's push.

my other read is that furtive is more likely a townie because he is trying to interact with detective penguin - a slot that he had to kill n1 as a serial killer last time - and I think he is more likely to do that as town this time

I like this post for town a lot (even though I don't agree with the reasoning on Ranger -- I think OMGUS is dead as a tell and has been for a long time)

I am both confused and amazed at what you all are able to read, but I will try my best to learn this secret language so I may assist in the reading of things.

Ethel, are you an actual new player or an alt?

I certainly have enough scumgames to have scumtells. The one you're applying seems meant for someone else. It genuinely COULDN’T apply to me, because I haven’t played until my return this year.

I don't think LLD has said what the tell is, so how do you know it can't apply to you?

I am both confused and amazed at what you all are able to read, but I will try my best to learn this secret language so I may assist in the reading of things.

Ethel same, me every game

VOTE: Gimli

Self-reminder to sort these when home.
I don’t think all are town or all are scum.

Now this feels like town!Ranger, but I haven't played with scum!Ranger that I can recall so I don't know what to do with that.

[Umlaut]

Ethel, are you an actual new player or an alt?

I am a... wait, what's the lore of this again? Oh right - I am of course an ambitious young magician from the beautiful city of Enhasa who is honored by this opportunity to serve her majesty the Queen. Although I have been educated in the matter of intrigues and schemes, this is my first time experiencing a scenario such as the current one firsthand. I am still trying to decipher the code most of you seem to use, but not to worry, I'll have it figured out soon enough. Admittedly, I am finding it hard to follow some of the reasonings that have been made about the indentity of any Earthbound Ones, so I will observe and learn before making any such accusations myself.

I'm reading this as "new player." Okay.

I was going to say this affects how I interpret Ethel's "I don't understand how you all are getting your reads" post, but actually on balance I find it a bit towny regardless. I first thought it looked a bit towny because I hadn't noticed Ethel was a newb, and so I thought it was strange enough to say that scum would be self-conscious about saying it. But having thought more through the case where they actually are new, it's

still

a tough thing for newb-scum to write because they might be afraid the reason they are missing something is because they're not town, and so they would again be self-conscious about writing it.

[Umlaut]

Was going to ask why Ranger never answered my question about her reads and then saw she actually did.

Explain Dragons and Gimli townreads?

Kinda surprised you remember my play well enough to call 89 town but apparently don't remember I get page one readslists.

I do remember that, doesn't mean I'm not going to ask where the reads come from.

It was purely vibes on that page. I liked Gimli's intro.
I didn't like furtiveglance's.
I felt STD's 'hiya' was town by gut. 12/19 could go either way but didn't reverse this. (I don't townread casual vibes from StD the same way I would LLD/Cephrir, at least on p1.)
Sails's cheeky wrong call of first felt +town as an rvs opener.
Loosely, I liked Cephrir's casualness.
My townread on Ethel was from erroneously believing this was a Theme game and believing 16 was a breadcrumb to some kind of PR. Rereading it remembering this is a flavored open, it's dead null.
I liked LLD's casual vibes in 18/20.

I mean... I guess. Calling a "Hiya" town is kind of crazy but no more so than people usually are around here. I like Gimli for town now too, I just didn't get there on page 1.

[Umlaut]

I'm not sure for reads at the moment

Being sure isn't the point of having reads. How do you lean?

[Umlaut]

i think she's focused pretty hard on the "confusing me with someone else" aspect and while i understand what she's getting at here, it's easier to hide behind this than to take another tack.

+town for Cephrir saying this better than I could.

think of the wagons we could build

we do seem to have a live one and yet, i'm seduced

VOTE: umlaut

oooh - i do like this better than redff

VOTE: umlaut

I was going to say I don't like this but the more I try to explain why the more I realize it's probably just because the vote is for me. Actually jumping from one kinda-scumread to another just because the wagon is juicier makes total sense and this is fine.

lol at umlaut read - surface skimming seven posts? Are you for real?

This makes it even better since it means Penguin is actually paying attention to me and not just voting me because the wagon is going that way (even if that is part of the reason). Penguin can have a townread for now.

Partially because I am being unfair. It's not fair I caught them Day 1. It's not fair our system sees right through theirs.

But that's how it is.

If this post comes from scum I am officially garbage at Mafia. (I mean, I'm probably garbage at Mafia anyway but still.)

Ok some thoughts as I catchup and read:

- Don't like Ranger claiming n1.
- Don't like Ceph's posting on p2.
- Like LLD posting.
- Dislike Ranger self-vote which required me to read someone else's post to find out that Ranger self-voted bc I'm not fully reading the thread.
- Neutral on FF on p3.
- Sail scumclaim is eh.
- Gimli town.
- Umlaut posting ok, I guess. I didn't read it very detailed, but surface skim it seems ok.

I'm still busy lol but my friends got off to eat dinner so here I am now for a moment.

This feels like natural and breezy catch-up thoughts and Korina gets a townlean for it. (I think taking Sail's "scumclaim" in 66 seriously is kind of weird though, it didn't even register with me and I had to ISO them to see what you were talking about.) I'd like to get more about your opinion on Ceph because I've liked their posting pretty much from the start.

[Umlaut]

If I had to give reads right now then

Very town:

Lady Lambdadelta, Cephrir

Sorta town:

Ethel, Korina, Detective Penguin, Gimli

Nulltown:

Sail, Save The Dragons

Nullscum:

furtiveglance, Radical Rat

Scum:

redFF, Ranger

Furtive has had a couple of bad posts (83, 200) and really no good ones; Sail is the other way around, I like 162 and nothing stands out as bad. Red is just going with the flow in a way I don't like.

[Umlaut]

I applaud Umlaut's posting regardless of alignment, but 205 is +scum by gut.

Scum:

redFF, Ranger

This is also a terrible take for obvious reasons.

Let me guess, the obvious reason is that it doesn't make sense for you to be scum together? You're right, it doesn't, I'm most likely wrong about one of you.

[Umlaut]

I applaud Umlaut's posting regardless of alignment, but 205 is +scum by gut.

Actually, this doesn't make any sense at all and makes me go from "Ranger is the best candidate for scum I can see right now" to "wait, I actually think Ranger is scum."

Why in the world do you applaud my posting? It's just, like, normal read-forming stuff, it's not great literature or dazzlingly brilliant rhetoric. The only reason you would applaud it is because you agree with it or think it's good towntelling, and you don't do either of those things.

[Umlaut]

Upgrade furtive a tier for 222, because it's a relatively surprising but reasonable basis for a town read that I don't think would occur to someone who is just making stuff up (though if furtive is scum and Korina is town it's possible it's just a real reason, so not conclusive, just a good look)

[Umlaut]

Also, the "pushing sideways" of offering reads on Korina and me when we are not really the topic of discussion seems to come from a more town place to me

[Umlaut]

Explain Dragons and Gimli townreads?

Kinda surprised you remember my play well enough to call 89 town but apparently don't remember I get page one readslists.

I do remember that, doesn't mean I'm not going to ask where the reads come from.

What do you hope to gain from asking Ranger about her page 1 readlists?

I don't know, I saw a read that surprised me and I asked about it. I didn't get anything from the answer so you're right that the question didn't help much in the end, but if something surprises me I'm going to at least point it out.

[Umlaut]

I find the level of read progression, reevaluation, thought process, and reads themselves to all be lackluster. It’s been years since we played together, but I'm

fairly

sure he's a much better town player than his play this game indicates. He looks like he's faking his towngame, doing the necessary motions, but not putting in depth of thought.

I'm not even sure we've played a game together more than briefly where I was town. The one I remember is Open 645, and before that I was killed Night 1 in Blitz 15. If we played together again after those two I forgot about it.

I do have a good game now and then but I have lost my youthful spark and

joie de vivre

, sadly. Feel free to look at any of my "recent" (last year or the year before) town games and see how I've played.

[Umlaut]

I don't think I'm getting any more from the LLD-Ranger back-and-forth. LLD, what other reads do you have?

[Umlaut]

I'm not even sure we've played a game together more than briefly where I was town. The one I remember is Open 645, and before that I was killed Night 1 in Blitz 15. If we played together again after those two I forgot about it.

i skimmed your first 10 posts in open 645 and am now more convinced you're scum in this game

Which of my town games did you skim for comparison?

[Umlaut]

lol, replied before seeing you did

[Umlaut]

Ranger and Mastina are in a system together, and both of them are a system like how Flea is a system, and I’m a system.

OH. Well, never mind whatever meta I think Ranger does or doesn't have on me because I'm not sure now.

[Umlaut]

[Umlaut]

What's vc on furtive? Kind of like that wagon better, this one isn't doing anything.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Umlaut]

Maybe Ranger is just better at scum than I expect but this doesn't read scum to me

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE: furtiveglance

I need to think more about this but not now, it's 11:30 and I've been drinking and watching sad movies.

Ranger claimed n1 too, and like... I feel like everyone getting ran up today will just claim n1.

Hmm.

[Umlaut]

Catching up now.

LLD claimed a tell on Ranger that I think I see too. Why wouldn’t I believe LLD and think Ranger’s lying especially after self-vote and “I act on n1” claim unpromptedly

If this is true you have the power to tell us what it is

Good post, had the same thought.

if ranger is a n1 doc, she protects furtive and gets killed because scum think she could be a n1 cop.

if ranger is a n1 cop, she dies because scum think she could be a n1 cop.

if ranger is mafia, we can lim her tomorrow. scum aren't going to leave a potential n1 cop alive.

Also good post and I think it comes from a town place. I can go with this plan. But in this case we off Ranger tomorrow regardless of her claim.

[Umlaut]

i don't know off the top of my head but im sure i have

This seems sort of incredible to me. You think you've bused but can't remember an instance of it? Do you normally have this little memory of your past games?

[Umlaut]

plus, it makes me look super townie to not push for std here. You both flip on me if I haven't found scum by day 3-4ish, so if i show that i don't want to kill him i can kill him later and look really good

it's a scum strategy :3

[Umlaut]

What happened to the Korina wagon? It came and went before I could jump onto it.

VOTE: Korina
Better late than never.

[Umlaut]

I have... not much to say about the last few pages, they just feel like a holding pattern. I could possibly be sold on the Gimli wagon but I haven't seen much of a sell yet.

[Umlaut]

What happened to the Korina wagon? It came and went before I could jump onto it.

Wait, it didn't go anywhere, I just forgot how to read vote counts

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Radical Rat

I am random voting

Why? And why say you're doing it?

[Umlaut]

Keeping vote on Kawaii for now but willing to reëvaluate that if they can towntell

(I mean, that's kind of tautological, I'm always willing to reëvaluate if the person I'm voting towntells, but still wanted to point out my position for some reason)

[Umlaut]

Did you or Ranger claim first?

Ranger claimed first, under minimal pressure very early in the day.

[Umlaut]

no - made the same request of you and was ignored, but you made a weak request and Gimli abided.

Given that you were listened to over me makes me feel reaaaaaaaallllllllyyyyy bad. Like...really bad. Can't believe it actually happened bad.

This seems like... two different things? What does Enchant's willingness to go along with requests have to do with Gimli's willingness to do the same?

[Umlaut]

'I simply do not believe this' seems fake, of course you believe this

What do you mean by this? Are you reading RR's post as the hyper-literal "I don't believe Ranger made this post" and saying that yes they do believe that? You're probably right about that but it's also the most obtuse possible way to read it.

[Umlaut]

I found it surprising for pretty much the reason RR did and I've been around longer than they have.

[Umlaut]

The thing that makes me question now whether Ranger's post comes from mafia is just that it's such a

weird

response to one vote and sticks out badly in a way Ranger should know better than to do. I find it hard to believe scum!Ranger sounds the alarms and goes into flail mode the first time she gets voted.

[Umlaut]

i dont think that plan will work but maybe you're town for thinking it will

Emptyquoting

[Umlaut]

@KawaiiKame

any thoughts/reads yet?

[Umlaut]

@Ethel[/v] same question as above. I don't really know where you stand on anyone right now beyond your vote on Red.

[Umlaut]

I'm inclined to agree with RR on this actually.

VOTE: Ranger

Let's give her her way after all.

[Umlaut]

There is actually no point in Ranger claiming n1 if she's planning to get herself yeeted anyway. Nights of action are chosen independently for each PR so it doesn't give us even partial information about anyone else.

[Umlaut]

Yes

[Umlaut]

Hi - have you finished reading?

No, catching up

Please finish doing this soon, assuming you're town we are effectively a player down until you start contributing. If you can't, then maybe give thoughts on what you have already read, at least, even if it's not fully caught up.

[Umlaut]

Say you flip a coin 4 times and it flips tails 4 times, what are the chances the next flip is heads?

Its 50%

That's true of any individual, but not so of groups. While we can't know WHO is lying, because for every individual the odds are equal, for every person who claims to have an ability on a given night, the likelihood that at least one is lying goes up.

This is true, I think, but it stops being true once we flip one of them. Once we know e.g. that Ranger is or isn't town, we are back to evaluating the other N1 claims independently from that one since it gives us partial information about whether one of the claimants is lying.

[Umlaut]

I really think you all should listen to what Radical Rat is saying about Ranger. I would reiterate it but they've already put it as well as it can be put. Nothing about her play today is pro-town.

[Umlaut]

Town does best when they resist the urge to get fancy with the mechanics and just kill the scummiest player.

[Umlaut]

I really think you all should listen to what Radical Rat is saying about Ranger. I would reiterate it but they've already put it as well as it can be put. Nothing about her play today is pro-town.

nothing about it says "scum motivation" either whilst there are other players who play does and we're ignoring them soooooo....

Who's ignoring them? I haven't just been sitting on Ranger all day and neither has anyone else except, well, Ranger. Who do you have in mind here exactly?

[Umlaut]

really wanted a korina/kawaii yeet but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen

I could still go to this if Ranger isn't doable.

[Umlaut]

I'm strong townreading enchant fwiw

I don't understand how anyone could have a strong read on Enchant, but okay

[Umlaut]

Ranger why are you still selfvoting when there is a clear and realistic option for you to live here

I'm really wondering about that too. I was very confused by the self-vote in the first place since I've never seen anyone do that before except as a joke, but apparently it can be a serious strategy? Even if I don't get what it's supposed to really accomplish, that's already been discussed plenty and I wish Ranger would just undo that and we can move on.

I know you're new and all but is this really all you've got to say about the game state?

[Umlaut]

Curious that neither Ranger nor furtive were killed...

Agreed. Kind of curious regardless of the scenario; I'd expect town!Ranger to be offed by scum, and I'd expect scum!Ranger to off Enchant.

I don't see why it would be obvious to scum that town!Ranger's claim yesterday was fake, as Gimli is saying? Even if she were lying about the specific target she might still have been a cop and would still be a good target.

Can't make up my mind what this actually means for Ranger's alignment. At first I thought the change of claim looked damning but I was also predisposed to see her as scum so could be confbiasing there. I have to think about it more.

For now

VOTE: KawaiiKame

Korina was suspect and Kawaii has done nothing to rehabilitate the slot. We can come back around to figure out Ranger.

[Umlaut]

Yeah, actually scum!Ranger offing you would be way too blatant, so never mind that part

Someone make an argument that Ranger surviving the night isn't inherently suspect, then? Because it looks like it is to me.

[Umlaut]

Anyway, let's wagon Kawaii at least until they start doing something.

[Umlaut]

I'll keep my thoughts to myself until I think they're worth sharing. I don't have any information that's not publicly available, and I don't think any speculations from me would currently be helpful.

Speculations from you would in fact be helpful. We need to know what you're thinking, not just so we can make use of it but so we can see you're town trying to solve the game. Most Mafia games here are won or lost on dayplay and forming reads, not on night actions and "information that's not publicly available."

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Cephrir

We can wait for a claim before hammer if people really want but it's not as if we're launching anyone else today after that.

[Umlaut]

Cephrir is Mafia, that's my check.

I'd probably guess Ranger and Kawaii for the other 2 but could be others idk

Is this a team solve or just independent reads?

[Umlaut]

Well we can have third option and elim someone outside of check and cop.

It prevents potential doctors from guessing game in case when ceph flips mafia. We kinda not in ELO, can afford that. And while they both alive, let them work?

This is the worst plan. One of furtive or Ceph dies.

I actually agree furtive is scummier by play but that fakeclaim seems... well, I was going to say unlikely but I guess he was forced to claim some kind of result after yesterday and it was either that or greencheck a townie (greenchecking a scumbuddy seems like a terrible idea) which is helping out town quite a bit.

UNVOTE: Cephrir

I need to think more about this. Normally I believe the accuser first but there are both mechanical reasons and read-based reasons not to do so right now.

[Umlaut]

If i am mafia i don't fakeclaim guilty because how shitty my position will be. I will die for nothing.

Why if i can fake towncheck and coast

Does this change if you're in line to get yeeted anyway?

[Umlaut]

VOTE: furtiveglance
There seem to be valid arguments for both sides of this but in the end it comes down to everyone's own decision.

I expect more than "it comes down to everyone's own decision" behind this. You are not exempt from explaining where you are coming from in this game.

[Umlaut]

Speaking of Kawaii I'd like it if we could wait for them to say, like, anything of substance at all, before the day ends?

[Umlaut]

If I had to pick now, you

[Umlaut]

Cephrir has read town to me so far, which I would normally ignore because I'd say there's no reason as scum for you to 1v1 them, but in this scenario there sort of is because you had to give a cop result anyway.

[Umlaut]

I've read a bunch of comments saying you're "playing to [your] scum meta" but I don't really know/remember your meta so I'm making a point of actually looking into that before making up my mind.

[Umlaut]

Why is Ceph reading town

Tone, activity level, solviness, je ne sais quoi. I haven't reread and can't really back this up at the moment, if I could I'd be voting.

[Umlaut]

I've liked RR for town just because I agreed with them a lot, which is maybe not the strongest reason in the world but enough for me to look side-eyed at the "not a town thought process" accusations.

[Umlaut]

Ethel is town

[Umlaut]

Are people really scumreading me for not claiming immediately?

I agree this is by itself a kind of silly reason for a scumread. A better reason would be not sticking by your guns on it and making people play out the day for at least a few IRL days before giving your result, implying you were swayed by popular opinion.

It's both ridiculous and scandalous, to be sure.

I can't wait for all the manoeuvring and finger pointing tomorrow, as everyone who voted for me decries everyone else who did as scum.

This post is making me feel better about wanting to flip furtive first. I'm still going to make time to reread first but at the end of that reread I'm pretty sure I know which way my vote is going.

[Umlaut]

I mean yeah everyone point blank refused to play until I claimed the result.

1. I didn't.
   
2. You gave people less than one IRL day before giving up.

[Umlaut]

Cephrir

• 121 - engaging Ranger on her reads is +town
  
• 128 - transparent in his position on Ranger (sidenote: everyone who keeps claiming people are just sheeping LLD is obviously not reading the game
  
• 130 - voting me is not the best thing but doing more than just sit on Ranger all day is reasonable
  
• 144 - echoes my own feelings at that point in the game
  
• 213, 277 - admitting to liking Ranger's posts shows some sort of actual thought process and is +town; I'd think he'd just claim to disagree with her read on me if he were making things up as he went along
  
• 299 - likewise picking holes in the case on Ranger even though she's his own scumread too
  
• 339, 342 - seems unlikely for scum to go to this kind of effort to "read" me; not unheard of, but surprising
  
• 458 - "Maybe I'm just stupid" shows a lack of concern for appearing consistent which is a +town attitude

That's, uh, that's enough already. Still like Cephrir for town, absent the redcheck.

[Umlaut]

I mean yeah everyone point blank refused to play until I claimed the result.

1. I didn't.
   
2. You gave people less than one IRL day before giving up.

I got some reactions

Given that you're at risk of dying today, I'd think you'd want to tell us what you make of those reactions. What did you get?

[Umlaut]

Note that Furtive is at L-1 by my count (Ceph, RR, Ranger, LLD, Gimli)

[Umlaut]

VOTE: KawaiiKame again just so I'm not no-voting while letting the day play out

[Umlaut]

No practical difference, I guess. I'm just frustrated that they're not playing the game and no one is doing anything about it. I get there's not much we can do about it today but voting them still soothes my soul a bit.

[Umlaut]

Not thrilled with the hammer so early in the day but I'm postponing judgment on it until I see the flip.

[Umlaut]

I have a greencheck on Ranger.

[Umlaut]

Ranger

(4)

:

Ranger

- KawaiiKame -

redFF

-

Umlaut

Gimli

(1)

:

Lady Lambdadelta

redFF

(7)

:

Save The Dragons -

furtiveglance

-

Ethel

- Gimli -

Detective Penguin

-

Cephrir

- Radical Rat

Enchant

(1)

:

Enchant

Not Voting

(0)

:

Cephrir

(2)

:

Enchant -

furtiveglance

furtiveglance

(6)

:

Cephrir

- Radical Rat -

Ranger

- Lady Lambdadelta - Gimli -

Ethel

KawaiiKame

(1)

:

Umlaut

Not Voting

(2)

:

KawaiiKame - Save The Dragons

[Umlaut]

Pink was just already in the mod's VC

[Umlaut]

Ethel kill is not that surprising, I think everyone believed Ethel was town (though funnily enough I was kind of starting to question that read until I saw the kill). I can't say it points anywhere in particular.

[Umlaut]

I have no checks.

Cephrir has to die today of course, and hopefully we'll have something to corroborate Umlaut before tomorrow.

Please don't waste a second check on Ranger. Check me if you must but I think there are better targets.

[Umlaut]

something to consider: scum umlaut would fake a green on scum ranger and take this game to f5 and win. with 4 dead investigates, the possibility is open for a reality in which all the cops are dead. if that is the case, then mafia can fake a check and take it to endgame.

of course we could have 5 or 6 invests instead, in which case mafia would definitely not do that, cause it can be countered by a real check claim with one of them scum.

I'm a n3 doc. if we have an invest and its a n3 invest, then you can out and we can coordinate.

I didn't realize scum knew the setup until I read this post and went back to check.

I tend to agree with Enchant we should just launch Ceph today without too much discussion, but could wait for n3 cop claim if there is one. Even if you're scum it's not as if you can kill them tonight after that claim.

[Umlaut]

I tend to agree with Enchant we should just launch Ceph today without too much discussion, but could wait for n3 cop claim if there is one. Even if you're scum it's not as if you can kill them tonight after that claim.

Why couldn't he?

Because we'd insta-yeet him if the claimed cop died tonight after he offered to coordinate?

[Umlaut]

Oh, you already answered

[Umlaut]

Well now.
By my count that’s five dead investigators with two living ones, in a setup with a maximum of six.

Yeah, I had to double check this because I really bought RR's claim but you're right.

VOTE: Radical Rat

I have no idea why they decided to claim cop in the 6-4 setup, we can ask them after the game I guess. I'm not too mad if I get yeeted first but it's better if RR is.

we played like absolute ass and we're still going to win

Pretty sure Gimli nailed it here.

[Umlaut]

Obvious choice for the last scum is Kame, but I'm worried it's too easy. RR is basically gamethrowing here if that's the case so I want to think about it more.

[Umlaut]

Ranger

(4)

:

Ranger

- KawaiiKame -

redFF

-

Umlaut

Gimli

(1)

:

Lady Lambdadelta

redFF

(7)

:

Save The Dragons -

furtiveglance

-

Ethel

- Gimli -

Detective Penguin

-

Cephrir

-

Radical Rat

Enchant

(1)

:

Enchant

Not Voting

(0)

:

Cephrir

(2)

:

Enchant

-

furtiveglance

furtiveglance

(6)

:

Cephrir

-

Radical Rat

-

Ranger

- Lady Lambdadelta - Gimli -

Ethel

KawaiiKame

(1)

:

Umlaut

Not Voting

(2)

:

KawaiiKame - Save The Dragons

I literally had Gimli and Radical Rat colored green in this post in my drafts, that's how hard I bought the claims, lol

[Umlaut]

I'm not too mad if I get yeeted first but it's better if RR is.

I changed my mind about this when I realized that yeeting us both puts the game in the f3 of scum's choice. I will be kind of mad if I get yeeted first.

Ranger, how do you feel your reads have been in general this game?

[Umlaut]

I seriously cannot conceive of a universe where I claim Cop as scum knowing the setup is 6-4. I'm surprised enough that Rat did.

[Umlaut]

Goddammit RR, why can't you just 1v1 me like a normal person

I'm pretty sure you're just full of shit but now I have to actually think about whether you as town would really try something like this. Why would you do this to me.

[Umlaut]

Has RR ever fakeclaim-gambited like this before as town?

[Umlaut]

jesus christ man

so like if we coordinated this well enough we could have enchant alive on d5 with a check if he was a n4 which would've been huge

How would this have worked? I thought I saw it for a second but you would need at least a second n3 protect for the way I have it in my head, especially given your assumption that maf didn't just get lucky with the Enchant kill.

[Umlaut]

I think if RR is town we're just fucked so I'm working on the assumption they're scum here.

[Umlaut]

In that scenario, Mafia can kill RR on n3 and Enchant on n4.

[Umlaut]

I feel like missing that is +town, as is this whole flurry of posts, which is good because I was getting paranoid on you

[Umlaut]

@mod v/la for weekend

Won't be 100% absent but probably just passively following

Acknowledged!

[Umlaut]

Yeah, I think I'm hammered.

Please don't discount the possibility that it really is as simple as just {RR, Kame}. It would explain the claim retraction if RR absolutely needs to try and argue themselves town to win.

[Umlaut]

My reads weren't too good this game but I think I did the best I could to argue myself town and, if nothing else, I saved us a likely mislaunch with the Ranger check. Good luck town, you're going to need it in this endgame.

[Umlaut]

Yeah, I think I'm hammered.

Please don't discount the possibility that it really is as simple as just {RR, Kame}. It would explain the claim retraction if RR absolutely needs to try and argue themselves town to win.

If we're TvT remind me to yell at you for the stupid and nonsensical gambit post-game
If we're TvT we probably just lose tbh

[Umlaut]

Er, that came out wrong.

This is why I hate phone posting.

[Umlaut]

I am simply amazed that Korina/KawaiiKame was not yeeted this game.

QFT