Mini 2295 | Star Trek uPick - Fin!

[xyzzy]

I'm on the record saying I'm leaning town for LLD, but I don't think scum reading her is evidence of Aureal scum. I'm gonna take some time later on to reread Aureal, because I don't have much of a read right now, but that piece of info alone isn't enough to sway me.

also, page top

[Kokichi Oma]

I'm actually not sure. I miss frogs and black

[GreyICE]

Oh right mafia. I honestly forgot about this game a bit. Oops.

In my defense it's been a hell of a week.

Reading up.

[fferyllt]

Rogue, LadyLambdadelta and KawaiiKame have been prodded.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oops

[Rogue]

Sorry friends, I just found out the other day my car is totaled so I’m scrambling around atm

I’ll bug Mala and see if she can lend some sooons

[Aureal]

Like 581 did not work to stop Hebi's elim, it was never going to work to stop Hebi's elim, and actually all it did was give a reason for people to point and say "Look over there! xyzzy tried to save scum Hebi"

And I feel like xyzzy partnered with Hebi realizes this.

So that leads me to conclude this was his actual process of trying to work through a survivor claim.

Definitely agree with this. I liked xyzzy's willingness to put their own thoughts out there on how to process things even though it risked making them a target because omghebiobvscumkillnow!!

I think that the reasons to think that LLD is not a member of the Black Ops, so far are greater then the reasons to think anyone else is town in this game. So yeah, she gets to live in her own little tier above the rest.

Fair. I still have reservations. Like I still really did not care for the way she tried to direct protectives to her, it felt like an assertion of authority rather than actually trying to convince people- if I'm a protective there I'm not convinced to protect her. And all the jockeying with Grey leaves me feeling weird, like they're both working together, which of course they are given their relationship, and it's hard to tell where that ends and possible in-game-relationship could begin.

How do you feel about Grey's shifting position on LLD?

I didn't like it.

Seeing as you've explained what Grey was probably doing in claiming, does it not feel reasonable for him to be upset that she demanded a claim because she got a negative on a motion detector? An unaware miller in a closed setup who triggers a motion detector despite not having a night action sounds pretty bastard setup and this isn't one.

Also, why did you think Grey would need time to fake the title part of his role name if scum? Only the affiliation at the end would be different, the middle part is clearly just a descriptor of the character.

[Aureal]

I’m not feeling wave scum at all.

Wow, what a difference a day makes. Really, your entire basis for scumreading Wave was thinking he had a couple more votes on him than he actually did and thus he shouldn't be allowed to vote your scumread?

On the other hand, we should wagon Aureal.

Didn't you say like three days ago that you were going to explain that idea 'tomorrow'? I think Wave just might be right about what you're doing.

[Aureal]

I'm on the record saying I'm leaning town for LLD, but I don't think scum reading her is evidence of Aureal scum. I'm gonna take some time later on to reread Aureal, because I don't have much of a read right now, but that piece of info alone isn't enough to sway me.

also, page top

I'm not scumreading LLD. I'm... I guess townleaning her, but with some big frustrations and I want to make sure she just isn't getting a free pass to lead a scum win. I don't want people to stop paying attention to what she's doing. I'm aware of her reputation for being very good at scum.

[Wavelength]

Like I still really did not care for the way she tried to direct protectives to her, it felt like an assertion of authority rather than actually trying to convince people

That was self confidence in her abilities, and self awareness that she has a reputation.

People shoot at LLD night one even if she did not find scum day 1. She had every reason to think she just made a perfect night kill of herself, and she is the kind of person to believe that if she wants her faction to win (town or scum) she needs to stay in the game over most other players.

I did not bat an eye on LLD's protect request, although, to be fair, if she was scum who just dunked on Hebi, she almost certainly would have made the exact same request. But she also makes that request, in that position, as town.

[Kokichi Oma]

I'm having trouble getting into this game again. Who should I iso/look into first anyone?

[Wavelength]

The most interesting thing that I saw in my re-read was Porken's reads list in

280

, given the Hebi flip.

Spoiler: My thoughts on it

I actually think that I might feel more strongly in my reads that GreyIce and Porkens looks like they are individually positioning around a sinking partner then my thought on Aureal.

Aureal is more of a looks scummy read, then a looks partnered with Hebi read.

Actually

VOTE: porkens

Basically, Porken's big post 280, and its reads list, look like scum positioning around hebi's flip.

Every single one of his red colored reads is dependent on Hebi being scum, and how that person could be partnered with a scum Hebi.

Which is a bad way to scum hunt in general, but if you are hunting based on preflipping your top scum read, then it does not make any sense to be open to eliminating any of the potential partners before hebi, but his post ends with

"I could vote for any of the bottom 6 right now."

As others have noted, xyzzy's hop onto hebichan's wagon slightly smacks of distancing. I agree that if hebichan is scum, xyzzy is partner-leaning

Rogue might be looking for a reason to townread hebi? (130). Also 137 gives me "no we aren't in a scum PT look we are chatting here" vibes.

Similarly don't like Frogs' vote on black and I don't see the relevance of the quoted posts.(235)

Wavelength joins the bad counterwagon on black

I don't see a town motivated reason why Aureal unvotes hebichan in 91. At that point, I don't have a strong townread on hebichan. Aureal doesn't express one either

All of these reasons to scum read people fall apart if Hebi is town, because they all boil down to be "looks partnered" or "are jumping off the righteous hebi wagon" or "joining the scum designated couterwagon to Hebi."

(I know that you said that Aureal's was regardless of Hebi's alignment, but I don't care. It does not change my opinion on it.)

These all look like they were written from the PoV of someone who knew Hebi's alignment, and wanting to make people look bad on the Hebi flip.

[Wavelength]

Oh. Formatting

280

[Kokichi Oma]

I'll look into that and the black counterwagon that started for whatever reason

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah the black counterwagon probably has a scum on it that isn't Hebi depending on how far it got

[Wavelength]

Seeing as you've explained what Grey was probably doing in claiming, does it not feel reasonable for him to be upset that she demanded a claim because she got a negative on a motion detector? An unaware miller in a closed setup who triggers a motion detector despite not having a night action sounds pretty bastard setup and this isn't one.

I can actually respond to this now, because the other game just ended.

LLD and I were in another game, that had a miller, and they died before this game started, and it was worded as such:

you will appear as mafia to any investigations and as visiting anyone who dies each night.

So no, I don't think that her being in the mindset that a miller might show up to a motion detector is too odd.

[Wavelength]

Also, why did you think Grey would need time to fake the title part of his role name if scum? Only the affiliation at the end would be different, the middle part is clearly just a descriptor of the character.

This part feels pretty self-explanatory.

Role PMs were sent in this format:

Reginald Barclay, Anxious Dreamer of the Temporal Alliance
Khan Noonian Singh, Wrathful Augment of the Temporal Alliance
Lt. Commander Data, Sentient Being of the Temporal Alliance

It is VERY consistent.

"Character name, "flavorful descriptor" "of the Temporal Alliance"

He originally claimed it like this.

"I'm Weyoun Six, member of the Temporal Alliance"

Which is clearly not the way that a real town role pm would have gone out, and my first gut reaction to reading it was that he made it up, and did not realize the format he needed to put the flavor name it into, because he was more focused on the abilities and making the conform to whatever led to LLD demanding him to claim.

So I asked him for his exact flavor name, to see if he could correct it.

If he is town (and sees my post immediately) he should be able to get it right in exactly as long as it takes to "open PMs, copy, paste, post." If he had responded to 767 as fast as he had responded to 764, it would have lessened my suspicions on him quite a bit.

If scum, he would first have to figure out why I am even asking him, and then make up an appropriate response. So I would expect a delay.

But a delay can also mean "walked away from computer." So a very quick response would be town indicative, a slow response does not mean a lot.

[Wavelength]

I could move my vote back to Aureal, and not be too conflicted by it.

I feel worse about them after their more recent string of posts actually.

[Porkens]

Interesting. Grey ice has also done jack shit all game. If town Aureal is at least playing. Still, I like my vote.

[Aureal]

I can actually respond to this now, because the other game just ended.

LLD and I were in another game, that had a miller, and they died before this game started, and it was worded as such:

you will appear as mafia to any investigations and as visiting anyone who dies each night.

So no, I don't think that her being in the mindset that a miller might show up to a motion detector is too odd.

Oh geez, that game, lol. I didn't look back at the earlier game to see that stuff but I did run across it while trying to research the parity win condition and got way too distracted reading your clash with Pink Ball. I probably would've fallen for his claim but looks like you were the Mafia there and thus had a bit of a different perspective, eh? So maybe I should be be a little wary of you after all.

I think there's still a pretty big difference between that role which clearly states how it is shown to night actions, and this idea of a hidden miller who trips not just standard investigations but things like motion detector as well. According to the wiki on Miller, an unaware Miller in a closed setup could be considered bastardly, and this would be even worse.

LLD, why did you choose Grey as your night action target?

[Wavelength]

I probably would've fallen for his claim but looks like you were the Mafia there and thus had a bit of a different perspective, eh?

I had also role copped him, and seen his entire role pm, so yeah, different perspective lol

[Wavelength]

this idea of a hidden miller who trips not just standard investigations but things like motion detector as well

I do not believe that there is a single player who thinks that this is a thing that exists in this game, and I do not know why you are even debating it tbh

LLD asking greyice to claim, turns out, happened before greyice claimed why they thought they might be a miller

[Aureal]

If scum, he would first have to figure out why I am even asking him, and then make up an appropriate response. So I would expect a delay.

But a delay can also mean "walked away from computer." So a very quick response would be town indicative, a slow response does not mean a lot.

Yes but as LLD pointed out earlier, he shouldn't have to make up anything, unless he was totally fibbing about which character he was I guess but why would he do that? Hebi also had a flavor description in the middle. I expect he's got that vorta thing as his flavor regardless of whether it's followed by Temporal Alliance or something else. They're not all going to be Borg Liasons, that's got to be specific to Seven.

[Aureal]

this idea of a hidden miller who trips not just standard investigations but things like motion detector as well

I do not believe that there is a single player who thinks that this is a thing that exists in this game, and I do not know why you are even debating it tbh

....

Because LLD thought it was a thing that could exist. Which you agreed was reasonable.

[Aureal]

Also because as Porkens alluded just now, hardly anyone is doing anything so you're kinda stuck with whatever dumb shit is going through my head until the other two thirds of the players decide to wake up. Is everyone just waiting for LLD to do something?! This is not a healthy game state.