Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[IceDragon70]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Why must thou talk in riddles?

[Rautherdir]

Scummiest at this point I'd say is probably furtiveglance, they haven't really contributed much at all while still being present.

I agree that they have contributed very little, but I believe it is typical of their early-game play.
What do you think of ActionDan's ISO? To me it looks like a bunch of nothing trying to look like something.

It's something at least, though not very great I'll admit.

[Rautherdir]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Why must thou talk in riddles?

You might have to pop open a Binding of Isaac wiki to get some of what they say. Though it is still understandable without the extra context so far.

[Rautherdir]

Also casting shade on an IC. Yes mod misdirection is possible, that doesn't allow outright lying I believe. Misdirection would be more like... well, saying Benediction is an informed minority but not mentioning if they are threats to Invocation, in the situation where Benediction is able to win with Invocation.

i interpreted 33 as a joke.

Same here.

(There's a reason I brought up that point in a separate post from my actual reason for scum reading them)

[The Keeper]

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

I think the whole point of this setup is that there's no "town" and "scum", because the uninformed majority is actually "neutral" in the struggle between good and evil (judging by the fact that we're colored Ike third parties and Benediction is colored like town).

I realized that later, yeah. Invocation is neutral, Malediction is evil, Benediction is good. The question then is... We can likely presume this is a fight between Malediction and Benediction, but then what about Invocation? We can probably assume that Malediction doesn't have the best interests for Invocation, Benediction is perhaps more in the air.
(A situation where this is literally a fight between Malediction and Benediction, and Invocation is literally just the third party with a survivor like win con in the end is amusing to me but I don't think that's the case, I assume there is in fact threats to Invocation based on our win con, we'd literally have already won if there aren't any threats.)

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the freedom to invoke both and maintain balance is crucial.

[The Keeper]

Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.

I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.

I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.

I'm going to suggest that regardless of alignment we likely shouldn't broadcast what we are unless we want to early Genesis and just put all the items and cards out for free perusal.

[The Keeper]

Also casting shade on an IC. Yes mod misdirection is possible, that doesn't allow outright lying I believe. Misdirection would be more like... well, saying Benediction is an informed minority but not mentioning if they are threats to Invocation, in the situation where Benediction is able to win with Invocation.

If you misdirect you lie.

[Rautherdir]

This is true, and I spent a while (before game started even) debating if I should claim to get knowledge on how to use my role or not. I just had no idea how to play my role, I couldn't figure out what the equivalent role was on the wiki and was thus bereft of any play advice from there.

[Abnegation]

it’s probably fine. checker is unlikely to tip the balance much anyway.

[The Keeper]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Why must thou talk in riddles?

I have charons obel, given I'm dead and I have nothing better to do... I have a lot of time.

[Rautherdir]

The information that there are almost certainly roles that prevent actions from working is I think more valuable then keeping my role hidden as well, in retrospect. Plus, I can try to be as helpful to town as possible in order to eat a night kill for that reason even if not a powerful role. (The trick of course, is doing that, which I might not have the best track record of.)

[Rautherdir]

I can do stuff like check ascetic or vet claims at least. Or just... gather information in general about other actions in play maybe.

[IceDragon70]

Okay guys, discussion is kinda dragging and I need to get productive, so I'm gonna hop off for now and come back to a hopefully more readable game state in a few hours.

[Rautherdir]

We have a few people who haven't posted yet, yeh. We do have content worth commenting on but I think we need new eyes.

[Abnegation]

rautherdir has slight town vibes too.
i don’t scumread anyone right now and i’m not convinced by the furtive/actiondan stuff. i don’t think the “not contributing enough” tell is very good. i’ve seen it be wrong far more than i’ve seen it be right.
i’ll be back in a few hours too.

[Rautherdir]

rautherdir has slight town vibes too.
i don’t scumread anyone right now and i’m not convinced by the furtive/actiondan stuff. i don’t think the “not contributing enough” tell is very good. i’ve seen it be wrong far more than i’ve seen it be right.
i’ll be back in a few hours too.

I mean yeah but it's the best I have to work with outside of Enchant being seemingly convinced that Benediction is guaranteed to be antagonistic to town, and I don't really scum read that so much as find it odd.

[ActionDan]

@Mod: Is it public knowledge that disciples of benediction are threats to town

There.

I think it's pretty obvious that they are considering we're playing mafia, a game pitting uninformed majorities against informed minorities.

The stretch to entertain the idea they aren't reads to me as a possible play to fake a dumb not-benediction faction tell more than honest concern.

So why aren't you voting Rautherdir?

I simply did not feel the compulsion to vote. I treat my votes as more committal than most and I'm only half scrutinizing the thread while I'm working. I thought it enough to state my opinion while being content to wait a bit longer for both an answer to my earlier inquiry to you and more posts in general.

Guys we've had a fuckton of mechanical discussion but barely any scumhunting.
I'm gonna VOTE: ActionDan because I like their ISO the least.

This vote is pretty solidly scummy. My ISO, as later claimed in post 146 is "a bunch of nothing trying to look like something." I had only made three posts at this point, an RVS vote, a question highlighting what seemed to me to be cognitive dissonance, and a post casting an aspersion on Rautherdir. None of these factors into your complaint about "a fuckton of mechanical discussion" which to me is what I would associate with "a bunch of nothing" in general. If the complaint is that I'm supposed to be contributing more 4 pages into D1, well that presents its own problems.

So I don't believe you're voting me for the stated reason. What I do think is happening here is that you're piggybacking off post 109 and invented a new reason to vote me to keep it fresh. In which case there's a rather poignant hypocrisy occurring, as in post 96 Keeper makes a similar if not even stronger denouncement of rautherdir without voting for him and there's no mention of it.

---

I'll address other posts / people later after work but wanted to get this one out now.

[ActionDan]

EBWOP:

This

is

worth a vote

VOTE: IceDragon

(Also I too think the miller claim is coming from town)

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: IceDragon70

Wolfy vibes

[Hell Froze Over]

I think it's not more letter eating like "scum not scum" it's more that you assume that one of teams could benefit town which is not assumption commonly made.

I disagree, when I first saw the teams (in the OP) I was thinking it's probably about a coin toss on whether or Benediction can win with town, and it's clear Malediction can't.
Of course this might be incorrect due to bastard element of mod misdirection, but there's a reason I claimed Benediction and not Malediction in my opening post.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that there's a

possibility

of Benediction being able to benefit town.

I still don't see the reason frankly. If I wanted to claim scum in RVS myself I would have done it properly and go with the evil-sounding faction. Or at least make it a somewhat funny shitpost like enchant did.

You did notably gloss over my question, so I'll reiterate. Was you feysal vote serious or was it what you called "phase II rvs" in Dreams?

[IceDragon70]

I think it's not more letter eating like "scum not scum" it's more that you assume that one of teams could benefit town which is not assumption commonly made.

I disagree, when I first saw the teams (in the OP) I was thinking it's probably about a coin toss on whether or Benediction can win with town, and it's clear Malediction can't.
Of course this might be incorrect due to bastard element of mod misdirection, but there's a reason I claimed Benediction and not Malediction in my opening post.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that there's a

possibility

of Benediction being able to benefit town.

I still don't see the reason frankly. If I wanted to claim scum in RVS myself I would have done it properly and go with the evil-sounding faction. Or at least make it a somewhat funny shitpost like enchant did.

You did notably gloss over my question, so I'll reiterate. Was you feysal vote serious or was it what you called "phase II rvs" in Dreams?

Phase II.

[Hell Froze Over]

Noted.

VOTE: Abnegation

How dare someone be presented before me in lexicographic order

Also it did but only because I voted you

Also, we haven't actually left RVS

Which is it atm?

@Mod: Is it public knowledge that disciples of benediction are threats to town

There.

I think it's pretty obvious that they are considering we're playing mafia, a game pitting uninformed majorities against informed minorities.

The stretch to entertain the idea they aren't reads to me as a possible play to fake a dumb not-benediction faction tell more than honest concern.

I woul also like to ask @dragon to specify which of those is the scummiest post. Because if it's the rvs one that feels omgus-y, and if it's the benediction one that feels chainsaw-y

~b

[Hell Froze Over]

VOTE: IceDragon

Also I don't think either of us mentioned it, but we are ascetic.

-Drew

[Rautherdir]

OH HEY something I can check.

[Rautherdir]

... I mean you've already been confirmed to be Invocation so I'm not sure I need to check that, but. Still.