TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Adorable]

I didn't like how Fate voted HPE with no elaboration and had nothing else to add.

Cerb has not been asking me good questions and these are the kind of questions that don't help on scum hunting. It looked like busywork to me. I would prefer players ask me question with a single quote and not a wallpost because I don't know how to edit the huge wall.

HPE I am null on and I can also imagine a town HPE being low hanging fruit. They said they are a passive player, I am also a passive player and I see nothing wrong with being passive.

[Jingle]

Cerb has not been asking me good questions and these are the kind of questions that don't help on scum hunting. It looked like busywork to me. I would prefer players ask me question with a single quote and not a wallpost because I don't know how to edit the huge wall.

If you're on desktop you can highlight a section and quote that section with the little tooltip, but mobile you just have to delete out the shit you don't want to quote.

[wgeurts]

Want to know why? The only tool you have as town is information. Where a metagame exists where it's acceptable to not provide substantive information scum can get away with more, there's simply less opportunities where they could potentially slip up. Without a constant and active stream or thought, engagement, and proactivity, it also becomes harders for others to gauge where you are. That is not a good thing.

[Cerberus v666]

Back my preserved wall of quotes I was working on! (also I am very unhappy that this game took this long to start, I am actively cutting into my time to prep for the trip and it is annoying)

Because we think wogurts has a strong potential to be scum aorn. Ask a silly question...

ok, why?

I think Cerb's posts have been lengthy and wordy but don't have much meat to them & feel vaguely pocket-y of wgeurts

Oh boy, if you think my posts have been lengthy and wordy so far playing this game with me is not going to be fun for you at all. This isn't intended to be insulting, but - you do realize you signed up for a text-based social deduction game, yes? A game where people will...use lots of words! I also strongly disagree that there hasn't been substance - substance which others have actively engaged with. If you'd like me to walk you through the substance, I can.

And yes. Calling my posts "vaguely" pocket-y of wgeurts is an absurd underrepresentation of how pocket-y they are. They are INCREDIBLY pocket-y, I literally call them a mason and (attempt to, though autocorrect ruined it) call them locktown. It's all a little tongue in cheek, yes, but if you weren't interpreting it as pocket-y I would be disappointed. That was literally the point and so far it's working out as intended.

I think Cerb's posts have been lengthy and wordy but don't have much meat to them & feel vaguely pocket-y of wgeurts

I think if you look at it wogurts actually looks far worse in those interactions. 22 kind of implies wgeurts has the impression of being buddied, but there's no real follow up. It's very much a "look, I'm paranoid of you!" post, but I don't actually see any real paranoia. cerb otoh looks like someone who is reaching out for engagement.

As far as other posts by wgeurtz I disliked, the pressing of Adorable this early is NAGL and the defence of me/undermining peta's push raised my brows.

I believe wgeurts says this a bit later on, but I AM a very methodical player, quite conniving as any alignment, and certainly competent as scum(historically, who knows what the fuck I am now). An expression of paranoia without any action behind it seems...in character to me, given their history with me. I would expect also generic paranoia of me to be expressed by(limiting this to people who are involved in Team Mafia) Alisae, Firebringer, Frozen Angel, Mastina, and Titus, so I guess I feel like this is a me thing more than a scumtell/stretch on the part of people who have played with me many times.

Did I miss wgeurts pressing adorable, and if I did, what about it appears bad to you? With regards to peta's push, do you feel that peta's push was weak enough that wgeurts jumping in was an easy way to score brownie points with you? Or is there some other eye brow raising point?

Do you seriously think you have reliable reads at this point?

I’m asking more philosophically, not directly at you. Do people in general ever have reliable reads on page 5? Haven’t even read the game btw

I like this perspective. NAI, to be clear, but it lines up with my own and so I like it. :p

From my early read I overlooked the post where Cerb gave Wgeurts a town read. I'm curious to know if Cerb's town read on Wgeurts was serious or were they joking because at the time Wgeurts only made 1 post which was a vote on Cerb.

It was 100% a serious position that I decided I would take before the game even started as a means by which I would get the game actually started and start working on sorting wgeurts!

I’m asking more philosophically, not directly at you. Do people in general ever have reliable reads on page 5? Haven’t even read the game btw

But I was asking you

i thought you were asking jingle tbh - i'm certainly not displaying a strong level of commitment to any read i make esp. since i've unvoted him but that's why i'm going through the process of talking to people


sometimes i get good hunches early, i caught titus on page 6 of datisi's cafe, but that's usually dependent on a degree of meta. but i'm fully aware not every early read is going to be a banger and am tempering my approach to be cautious here

this is especially true in team mafia because having 3 other people shouting in your ear very often creates an echo chamber effect that can lead you to confirmation bias your reads, and that can lead to people mutually tunneling each other and consuming the thread in a destructive fashion. i am trying to avoid this

I appreciate the attempt to avoid confbias. Given that, it feels a little inconsistent to be acting on the perspectives of the shouts in your ear so early on. Or maybe that's super consistent, because you're just letting the contrarian positions reign and therefore actively working against confbias.

Hmm. Alright. Maybe no conclusion to be drawn here.

VOTE: hpe

Hello there.

Beetlejuicing. Hmm. Noted.

Do you seriously think you have reliable reads at this point?

I generally don’t think I have reliable reads on page 100. Reads are not the forte of my towngame, barring some specific players. I’m way better at managing the gamestate to make winning possible than actually having the right reads.

Doesn’t stop me litigating the reads I have though, because even if they’re wrong they generate reads for other people.

Also this one is trying to figure out how it feels about this post and it doesn't think it's going to any time soon so it's just going to move on because it... probably doesn't matter either way other than "I don't have reliable reads" is just a generally alarming statement.

Disagree. I don't have reliable reads is a realistic statement. I don't know you, but are you someone who just sheeps people who project confidence more so than those who actually admit that people are bad at solving games?

{Peta, Jingle}
{Radical Rat, CSF}
{Adorable, Cerb, Fate, Porkens}
{HPE}
<snip>

Cerb

I have absolutely no lean here so far, as I need to see actual substance. I do have to say that the thought has crossed my mind that the low activity from Cerb here could be indicative of low motivation, due to a higher barrier of play. Cerb was in the past as I remember very analytical and methodical in his play, to do so as Scum knowing there's eyes on it takes more energy. It would make sense that a scum Cerb would be less willing to jump in with coachella upcoming than town cerb. This is very much a stretch however, and likely unfair. Not willing to place stock in it, but need to see Cerb in action when he's properly around.
<snip>

Alright, reads wall, snipping this because I'm only going to respond to stuff about myself because I'm egotistical, but generally speaking - this is the town!wgeurts behavior that I was trying to prompt, now I just need to actually decide if it's real or contrived. I will circle back around to this whenever I do the same for Jingle's list.

Now, more about me: I am *very* low motivation period, and was so before this all actually started - I joined up specifically to help someone who then got banned put together a team so they could play, and now I'm just doing the thing because I said I would. I...don't think that scum!cerb takes more energy than town!cerb(if for no other reason than that *my* biggest strength, outside of mechanical analytical stuff, gauging thread temperature on people and avoid getting limmed, is twice as valuable while being scum so overall activation energy is close to the same) but the line of reasoning is good. As a general point for everyone - I am a pretty obsessive refresher of game threads, so I was generally reading along with the game/am generally doing that, but actually responding to things is more likely to happen in a flurry of activity or a disgusting wall post like this if I'm short on opportunities to engage.

Wgeurts, if you'll indulge my curiosity, how much of that reads wall was from you, and how much was workshopped by your team?

Peta I requested people help me look at as with the current gamestate sorting those two is most valuable. I also got given information on Adorable as I don't know how to deal with that slot, and neither does my team it seems. Everything else is purely my own thoughts.

Which two were the most important to sort?

Because there is very much a difference in Jingle expressly saying they don't think they EVER have reliable reads,

Not really a huge deal, but as a point of clarification this isn’t actually what I meant.

There are games when I’m confident on my reads. There are games when I’m confident on my reads from the early game. As a whole, I don’t think I am impressive in either my scumhunting or town hunting, although there are people who disagree. Even when I’m not confident on my reads, I’m going to be arguing them.

The ways in which I benefit the town, instead, are much more aligned with other aspects of the game. I’m great at recognizing and derailing shittunnels from other people. I’m good at dragging activity out of chronic lurkers. I’m one of the best, if not the actual best, at working with mechanics to make the game unwinnable for scum. I’m pretty good at gamestate analysis.

Not admitting the shortcomings I know I have doesn’t do me any good, and in fact hurts our chances.

Hope that explains things a bit better, although if it doesn’t I’ll ask you the same question I asked peta: “What could I possibly have to gain by lying publicly about my experience in front of a bunch of people who have seen me play?”

Jingle, did we ever actually play in any games together in the past? I know your name, but your last two listed strong points are basically my own and therefore I feel like I should know you better than I do.

I don't genuinely think Cerb was scum-buddying with me, prior to the game starting we were already excited to have the opportunity to play again and have some mafia history together. His post largely read as jest, and I responded with some pomp in turn. By itself, that post is entirely NAI. I am not paranoid of Cerb to put it simply, I'm playing along with them. ^^

This isn’t really an explanation of why what you did but an admission that it is what I was seeing. It also doesn’t really shake the feeling I got that your response was intended to make cerbs look worse.

I guess the question remains: what do you intend to do now to response to the reach out/establish a better groundwork to work with cerbs, and why haven’t you been doing it til now.

It's hard to reach out to cerb when he's not currently in the game, when he's actually here I'll more than happily bounce off them.

On a side note, what do you make of Porkens?

I'M KINDA HERE NOW WGEURTS BTW (I have a shitload to do today and not enough motivation to do it all!)

wgeurts/jingle exchange is net goodposting, ty both for your service.

I’m sodeeyeing porkers a bit for roughly the reasons you seem to be on our princess friend. There’s a lot of prima facie doing but not a lot that seems likely to lead anywhere. I’m not particularly interested in poking them atm though, because there IS the doing side of things and the going somewhere might be impending. I feel like it’ll be a better situation to read porkens if I just let them do their own thing for now.

What "thing" do you think porkens is doing?

[Cerberus v666]

Want to know why? The only tool you have as town is information. Where a metagame exists where it's acceptable to not provide substantive information scum can get away with more, there's simply less opportunities where they could potentially slip up. Without a constant and active stream or thought, engagement, and proactivity, it also becomes harders for others to gauge where you are. That is not a good thing.

Wgeurts come talk to me and ask me questions and stuff.

I'm going to go back to where that wall of quotes ends and figure out wtf else has happened that I wanted to talk about, I'll be here for a little bit instead of doing homework or job hunting or chella prep.

[HighPrincessErinys]

I'll be honest I don't really remember your play from the xyzzy game but I can take a look later.

But by your own reasoning, shouldn't you be voting for me then since you had higher expectations from me in a sense?

A little, but this one doesn't know about outright VOTING you for that when it has genuine reason to believe in a scum motivation by wgeurts.

Lockscum

kids these days


doesn't nearly have a good a ring as confscum

Now.

For those questioning me, shhhhh, all in due time

That seems like a sketchy refusal to elaborate considering we only know for sure you've seen pages 1 and 2.

HPE, if you're town, instead of hunkering down on why people are voting you tell me who you think we should be voting instead.

I'm not a huge fan of this post. I think evaluating people's reasons for voting itself can be a valid form of scumhunting in of itself. As for "who it thinks we should be voting instead", its vote was already on you anyway

They're giving me a whole bunch of waffle. Jingle comes in and says he's a bit suspicious of Porken's, suddenly HPE is questioning Porken's too and walks back their vote on me a little. Note that Porkens is voting with HPE. If HPE is a passive player, I want to shove them off the fence and get them to take hard stances. If they're not used to that, making them squirm will in the short term and long term be telling enough.

This one is suspect of Porkens independent of Jingle's post because he's just not done a whole lot all game other than suddenly buddy up and vote with me, but that could just be "hey, I believe you", but he's still not given many posts of substance either way. And you explaining your reasoning more in-depth for why you're voting me, i.e. 227, does give me town vibes, even if as this one said to CSF that it has reason to believe still you have a scum motive behind things. What are

your

thoughts on Porkens the other other no-substancer, since you're currently under the impression that Adorable is currently within their townrange? You haven't said much on Porkens since your readwall after all.

Beyond that, going to actually VOTE: Fate. This one wants some more out of you, please.

[Jingle]

I believe wgeurts says this a bit later on, but I AM a very methodical player, quite conniving as any alignment, and certainly competent as scum(historically, who knows what the fuck I am now). An expression of paranoia without any action behind it seems...in character to me, given their history with me. I would expect also generic paranoia of me to be expressed by(limiting this to people who are involved in Team Mafia) Alisae, Firebringer, Frozen Angel, Mastina, and Titus, so I guess I feel like this is a me thing more than a scumtell/stretch on the part of people who have played with me many times.

Did I miss wgeurts pressing adorable, and if I did, what about it appears bad to you? With regards to peta's push, do you feel that peta's push was weak enough that wgeurts jumping in was an easy way to score brownie points with you? Or is there some other eye brow raising point?

Mostly 42 and the leads rist, but wgeurtz is poking them in a way that I think fairly obviously won't encourage actually indicative interaction. Specifically for 42,

Thoughts on the interactions between me, Jingle, Cerb and Peta? Fine to have null reads, but you're going to need to elaborate why you have null reads.

The first bit would be fine on it's own and even slightly towny, (calling attention to specific people to ask for them to talk about them is a great way to get info out) but the latter half is aggressive and feels like wgeurtz has already made a judgment before looking at what content gets produced. Arguing that someone needs to have reasons for not having thoughts isn't going to suddenly make them have reasons for not having thoughts, but it is a decent setup for a push later on. Given the context of Adorable coming in with her LHF selflabel, the aggressiveness of the push is :eyebrows:.

[wgeurts]

Porkens is being useless, but that's unfortunately something people do as town as well as scum. So I need more information. Why aren't you voting Porkens over Fate, as he's not exactly giving much either? @HPE

Cerb, more importantly what is your stance on both Jingle and Peta. Those two are highest priority to sort with relative certainty.

[Cerberus v666]

So I've come to the realization that pressing multiquote on everything that I have a thought about is going to make this game unbearable to read and play, and am trying to figure out where this habit came from because past!me certainly...couldn't have possibly...put that much time into things...did I? Fuck.

oh yeah this one's easy already page 2
VOTE: HighPrincess

I eagerly await the in depth and well reasoned argument based off their *checks notes* 3 posts they had made to that point which I am sure you will never provide.

oh yeah me and POrkens


this game going to 100 pages ez

Please no.

oh yeah this one's easy already page 2
VOTE: HighPrincess

Can you elaborate what you didn't like from it on page 2?

Lockscum

kids these days


doesn't nearly have a good a ring as confscum

Now.

For those questioning me, shhhhh, all in due time

That seems like a sketchy refusal to elaborate considering we only know for sure you've seen pages 1 and 2.

I think I missed a post by HPE in here where I was going to call out the beetlejuicing a second time, and instead accidentally posted the part where they threw shade on the person voting them instead. NAGL.

inaccurate one.

I didn't mean to imply you wouldn't be active. In fact, I would go so far to say that Team Mafia you will be almost identical to RR you as far as thread presence goes because you have Drixx whispering sweet nothings in your ear and that's how you always play from my reference point.

Interestingly, I think the activity and motivation level of my whole team is low enough that we are basically just playing the games on our own, lol. So, that's a thing.

Wgeurts, if you'll indulge my curiosity, how much of that reads wall was from you, and how much was workshopped by your team?

Peta I requested people help me look at as with the current gamestate sorting those two is most valuable. I also got given information on Adorable as I don't know how to deal with that slot, and neither does my team it seems. Everything else is purely my own thoughts.

The reason I ask is that while nothing in particular stands out as objectionable on its own, having such a comprehensive wall of opinions about every player (except Fate of course) so early on feels somewhat incredulous. Particularly it feels strange that you point out my reads as being too strong, even though I only actually have one read I'd consider to be anything more than a lean (CSF), inside of a wall post filled with nuanced opinions on everyone.

Just feels kinda like you felt obligated to have thoughts on everyone instead of them flowing naturally

RR, this is 100% in character for wgeurts and is the expected play. I recommend focusing on whether those reads and the progression and pressures being placed make sense, more so than whether or not you feel it's too early/their isn't sufficient meat to justify the positions they're holding.

Still feels insulting. Since you're talking about me, reaching out towards the person I know best in the game(especially one who I know is capable of putting together reads with actual reasoning behind them in the early game, which basically everybody fucking sucks at) is essential NAI. Town!Me does it because if I assume I have the best chance of catching them if scum, and if town I know we can work well together. Scum!Me does it because town!me would do it.

I'm not sure if you're talking to wgeurtz or me here, but FWIW I could definitely see a theoretical town cerb trying to pocket wgeurtz as a place to use for a start in putting the thread together. Pocketing isn't an exclusively scum activity, even if it is far less dangerous for scum because they don't have to worry about pocketing a scum player and just ending up a worthless pile of town crap.

When you get a chance could you give your thoughts on the wgeurtz scumlean I explained? I think you specifically are well placed to give insight.

Hmm what post? I'll go look for it myself after this post probably, but in case I don't have something up before you get to this thread, please assist! I'm pretty sure you're talking about your sentiment that wgeurts' posting with regards to me was intended to make me look bad more so than anything else?

The reason I ask is that while nothing in particular stands out as objectionable on its own, having such a comprehensive wall of opinions about every player (except Fate of course) so early on feels somewhat incredulous. Particularly it feels strange that you point out my reads as being too strong, even though I only actually have one read I'd consider to be anything more than a lean (CSF), inside of a wall post filled with nuanced opinions on everyone.

Just feels kinda like you felt obligated to have thoughts on everyone instead of them flowing naturally

You evidently never had the pleasure of playing with me when I was active. That's how I play the game, I've got a spreadsheet I note people's thought progressions, votes, and go back to once people start flipping so I can find associative-tells and patterns. Cerb at minimum can vouch, that's just how I roll.

As for your reads, strength is relative to the timeframe of the game, early on a relatively intense lean can be pretty strong. Your progression on Jingle is acceptably town-minded, your reasons for disliking CSF are sufficiently far-flung that in the given boardstate it just doesn't seem like something scum would do right then. The way you post isn't with hesitancy either, you just slap CSF with your vote and accuse him, that's what I mean by strong, intensity may be a better alternative.

Yep yep, once again agreeing that this is just their way.

Also, Cerb, read this post of Adorable and the following by my teammate Xof thereafter from Team Mafia 2021. Adorable rolled Town there, this is just how they play, and an example of why I personally am going to have a headache sorting said slot.

viewtopic.php?p=12643916#p12643916

Fuck. Homework. Okay. Will do.

Lockscum

kids these days


doesn't nearly have a good a ring as confscum

Now.

For those questioning me, shhhhh, all in due time

That seems like a sketchy refusal to elaborate considering we only know for sure you've seen pages 1 and 2.

HPE, if you're town, instead of hunkering down on why people are voting you tell me who you think we should be voting instead.

This one kinda has some misgivings about the vibes of Porkens and to a lesser extent since they've only just now come around, Fate. Porkens instantly voting for you after me gives something of a buddying impression, though it's not... really sure what to make of their posts otherwise, because it feels like shitposting. This one's starting to like you a bit more after 169 clearing things up a bit but the initial accusations are still... Eek.

I would appreciate a response to my question about who you are and how you do the mafia things!

the initial accusations are still... Eek.

Can you explain how their accusations are different from mine or peta's?

Goodposting.

I didn't like how Fate voted HPE with no elaboration and had nothing else to add.

Cerb has not been asking me good questions and these are the kind of questions that don't help on scum hunting. It looked like busywork to me. I would prefer players ask me question with a single quote and not a wallpost because I don't know how to edit the huge wall.

HPE I am null on and I can also imagine a town HPE being low hanging fruit. They said they are a passive player, I am also a passive player and I see nothing wrong with being passive.

Noted Adorable! I'll have you your own special just for you post, though before that I will just say - REASONS are the things scum need to make up. Asking you why you're doing or saying things and what the point is works to, ya know, force scum!you to justify the otherwise useless posts you've made.

[Jingle]

Jingle, did we ever actually play in any games together in the past? I know your name, but your last two listed strong points are basically my own and therefore I feel like I should know you better than I do.

I don't think you've played games with this account, but we've definitely played together and meshed well while I was on Bingle. I think I've also modded games you've been in and I've definitely reviewed and spectated games you've been in (I've modded more games than I've played and reviewed more games than is reasonable) although mostly on RR. The only individual reaction I can recall is the first game we played together where I accused you of being someone from my first on site game and it turned out it was just a similar username.

[Cerberus v666]

JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?

[Jingle]

peta's push was weak enough that wgeurts jumping in was an easy way to score brownie points with you? Or is there some other eye brow raising point?

I think peta's push was fairly obviously not going to lead anywhere at that point, but I don't think wgeurtz was actually trying to buddy me with the defense. I think it was more a posting for the sake of being seen doing something thing than any actual specific motivation. If wgeurts townread me and thought I was in danger defending me would make sense, but I don't think anyone would think I needed to be defended there. If wgeurtz was trying to read peta, I think letting peta push me and seeing their angle would be more useful in the long run. As it is, it's just fluff. It's a "I'm doing something!" post, but there's no real gain behind it which makes it easy for scum to fake.

Not a strong read by any metric, but I'm definitely giving wgeurts attention because of it.

[Jingle]

did I?

You did.

[Jingle]

Hmm what post? I'll go look for it myself after this post probably, but in case I don't have something up before you get to this thread, please assist! I'm pretty sure you're talking about your sentiment that wgeurts' posting with regards to me was intended to make me look bad more so than anything else?

You already addressed it in your first wall.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Porkens is being useless, but that's unfortunately something people do as town as well as scum. So I need more information. Why aren't you voting Porkens over Fate, as he's not exactly giving much either? @HPE

Because this one very much wants Fate to start talking considering they've provided even less than Porkens has. You ARE still on my list, but this one would really like these two to get to generating content, Fate especially.

I would appreciate a response to my question about who you are and how you do the mafia things!

If this one is going to sheep, it tries to sheep people it agrees with and trusts, and confidence doesn't usually have much to do with that, it thinks.

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, homework done.

For those who didn't follow along - in a game where Adorable was town, someone who effectively said they were going to defend Adorable was NK'd, and the next day when another slot came after Adorable they made the case that perhaps the person who was NK'd was killed specifically to make it easier to get Adorable limmed.

So, Adorable is capable of slight moonlogic and may have an overinflated idea of their own importance in scum planning. ^^

[Jingle]

I feel a bit better about Adorable, HPE, and Cerbs. Rat still fine. I have a scumread on Fate, but Mena and DK agree that I might be insane. We'll see how this plays out.

Still feel scum overall on wgeurts and peta, but those should both cook without much effort.

Porkens, who are you most interested in sorting aorn?

[Adorable]

Okay, homework done.

For those who didn't follow along - in a game where Adorable was town, someone who effectively said they were going to defend Adorable was NK'd, and the next day when another slot came after Adorable they made the case that perhaps the person who was NK'd was killed specifically to make it easier to get Adorable limmed.

So, Adorable is capable of slight moonlogic and may have an overinflated idea of their own importance in scum planning. ^^

Where did you get this info from?

[Adorable]

JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?

My objective was to let players know that I didn't have any reads and it's better to share what I have been feeling instead of keeping it to myself. A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it. I didn't know on what bloating the thread means which is why I asked.

[Jingle]

Where did you get this info from?

wgeurtz linked TM2021. Honestly I wish I could find my notes from that game (I was feeding Ari thoughts constantly).

[Cerberus v666]

I believe wgeurts says this a bit later on, but I AM a very methodical player, quite conniving as any alignment, and certainly competent as scum(historically, who knows what the fuck I am now). An expression of paranoia without any action behind it seems...in character to me, given their history with me. I would expect also generic paranoia of me to be expressed by(limiting this to people who are involved in Team Mafia) Alisae, Firebringer, Frozen Angel, Mastina, and Titus, so I guess I feel like this is a me thing more than a scumtell/stretch on the part of people who have played with me many times.

Did I miss wgeurts pressing adorable, and if I did, what about it appears bad to you? With regards to peta's push, do you feel that peta's push was weak enough that wgeurts jumping in was an easy way to score brownie points with you? Or is there some other eye brow raising point?

Mostly 42 and the leads rist, but wgeurtz is poking them in a way that I think fairly obviously won't encourage actually indicative interaction. Specifically for 42,

Thoughts on the interactions between me, Jingle, Cerb and Peta? Fine to have null reads, but you're going to need to elaborate why you have null reads.

The first bit would be fine on it's own and even slightly towny, (calling attention to specific people to ask for them to talk about them is a great way to get info out) but the latter half is aggressive and feels like wgeurtz has already made a judgment before looking at what content gets produced. Arguing that someone needs to have reasons for not having thoughts isn't going to suddenly make them have reasons for not having thoughts, but it is a decent setup for a push later on. Given the context of Adorable coming in with her LHF selflabel, the aggressiveness of the push is :eyebrows:.

Ah. got it, I think I see that. My interpretation(and this is surely colored by the fact that I don't like the way adorable felt the need to come out and say they have nothing of value to add) is that wgeurts was aggressive here to head off Adorable giving a non-answer, as they appeared prone to do. I can see where one might see that as a long play on someone who is LHF.

Porkens is being useless, but that's unfortunately something people do as town as well as scum. So I need more information. Why aren't you voting Porkens over Fate, as he's not exactly giving much either? @HPE

Cerb, more importantly what is your stance on both Jingle and Peta. Those two are highest priority to sort with relative certainty.

They both appear to be playing mafia, which is more than I can say for other people. I can ISO critically on both if you'd like, but at the moment I like Jingle and their approach, they feel like they're working to do stuff, and I don't particularly dislike, but certainly don't like, Peta, but this is not strong enough by my standards for me to know anything more than I need to actually look more closely at them.

Jingle, did we ever actually play in any games together in the past? I know your name, but your last two listed strong points are basically my own and therefore I feel like I should know you better than I do.

I don't think you've played games with this account, but we've definitely played together and meshed well while I was on Bingle. I think I've also modded games you've been in and I've definitely reviewed and spectated games you've been in (I've modded more games than I've played and reviewed more games than is reasonable) although mostly on RR. The only individual reaction I can recall is the first game we played together where I accused you of being someone from my first on site game and it turned out it was just a similar username.

Got it! That context makes snese, thanks.

Porkens is being useless, but that's unfortunately something people do as town as well as scum. So I need more information. Why aren't you voting Porkens over Fate, as he's not exactly giving much either? @HPE

Because this one very much wants Fate to start talking considering they've provided even less than Porkens has. You ARE still on my list, but this one would really like these two to get to generating content, Fate especially.

I would appreciate a response to my question about who you are and how you do the mafia things!

If this one is going to sheep, it tries to sheep people it agrees with and trusts, and confidence doesn't usually have much to do with that, it thinks.

HPE, is there anyone in this game who you are not currently suspicious of, and why? I appreciate a focus on scum, but also, like, identifying town is important.

And okay, then - in that case, what exactly was the problem you had with someone stating their reads are unreliable? Can you walk me through that reasoning, if the confidence someone projects doesn't have much to do with it?

[Adorable]

Where did you get this info from?

wgeurtz linked TM2021. Honestly I wish I could find my notes from that game (I was feeding Ari thoughts constantly).

I missed this earlier and now I see.

[Cerberus v666]

JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?

My objective was to let players know that I didn't have any reads and it's better to share what I have been feeling instead of keeping it to myself. A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it. I didn't know on what bloating the thread means which is why I asked.

Interesting. This post is approximately 55% scum, 45% town. I think it's *slighly* more scum than town to want to get your thoughts out in the game ahead of people questioning you about them, and it's *definitely* more scum than town to defer responsibility for doing something that the game has decided is scummy. Interesting that you did not know what was meant by bloating the thread, but understood, makes sense in that case.

[Cerberus v666]

Also(and this is kinda unrelated to the actual game state but also a bit revelatory to me: I USED TO MULTIQUOTE WALLS OF THINGS TO CHAT WITH MY PEOPLE ABOUT WHILE HYDRAING, THAT'S WHY IT'S MY HABIT!. I'd multiquote and preserve some portion of things in PT's or discords and then trim it down to what I actually wanted to talk about, and right now because I'm running off of muscle memory I'm doing it but you're all getting the fluff along with the crunch unfortunately.

[Adorable]

JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?

My objective was to let players know that I didn't have any reads and it's better to share what I have been feeling instead of keeping it to myself. A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it. I didn't know on what bloating the thread means which is why I asked.

Interesting. This post is approximately 55% scum, 45% town. I think it's *slighly* more scum than town to want to get your thoughts out in the game ahead of people questioning you about them, and it's *definitely* more scum than town to defer responsibility for doing something that the game has decided is scummy. Interesting that you did not know what was meant by bloating the thread, but understood, makes sense in that case.

I disagree on this.