TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Jingle]

Was it GiF who suggested you take the double vote?

[wgeurts]

A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it.

Why did they recommend it?

[Adorable]

Was it GiF who suggested you take the double vote?

yes

[Adorable]

A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it.

Why did they recommend it?

I don't want to say it now when we got 2 scum roaming around.

[Jingle]

A mechanical thought occurs. It is possible that there is a role or roles that benefit from having powerups. It is possible that Adorable has one of these roles. I don't want Adorable to say whether this is the case. I'm mentioning this because at this point I don't particularly mind if scum kill adorable on the back of this speculation and I've decided I actually want the powerup awarded in case this is the case.

VOTE: Powerup: Adorable

[Cat Scratch Fever]

A mechanical thought occurs. It is possible that there is a role or roles that benefit from having powerups. It is possible that Adorable has one of these roles. I don't want Adorable to say whether this is the case. I'm mentioning this because at this point I don't particularly mind if scum kill adorable on the back of this speculation and I've decided I actually want the powerup awarded in case this is the case.

VOTE: Powerup: Adorable

Do you strongly townread Adorable? You don't seem to be concerned with it being a scum ability activated by the powerup

[Cat Scratch Fever]

A little, but this one doesn't know about outright VOTING you for that when it has genuine reason to believe in a scum motivation by wgeurts.

I'm still unsure how why you singled them out for potential scum motivation if their accusations have been the same as others tbh

I did take a look at the xyzzy game and you do have a habit of making observations that you don't think are necessarily scummy & slow to form scumreads, so I am feeling less good about my vote atm

[Jingle]

That's a loaded question. I am relatively strongly townreading adorable, but also I would probably be pro giving her the power even if I weren't.

Locking anything majorly significant behind a public use vote is kind of poor game design, and not something I'd expect from Cakez. Like... if scum needs a strongman or scumvig to be competitive and that's locked behind calling extra attention to themselves, that's a bad decision I think Cakez is better than making. If its moderate power, like a roleblock, then it sucks but it's not the end of the world if it turns on. If it's moderate townpower, like a tracker or a doctor we might lose adorable because I'm pointing scum at adorable by outing this, but I think it likely scum will just assume that it's not worth worrying over but also we wouldn't get the power anyway if I didn't make that post. If it's no power at all, scum might be swayed into shooting Adorable over someone who is more immediately threatening to them.

[p]253[/p] implies that there is a mechanical reason for wanting the power, and while GiF is a troll who might have told Adorable to go for the powerup because he knew/expected it was a waste of town's time, he's also a good enough mod that if there was a reason to want it he would definitely coach Adorable into trying for it at that point. And leaving which of those is actually the case openended is pretty obviously the right way to approach this as town.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cerberus calling HPE's 120 beetlejuice in 228 feels rather uncharitable given how active HPE has been this game

[Jingle]

I'm more concerned with the application of the tell this early. It was explicitly beetlejuicing, but beetlejuicing is really only a scumtell if it's a pattern of behavior.

[Jingle]

I apologize if [p]257[/p] is hard to read, my sentences got away from me a bit. I can definitely take another crack at explaining that if someone needs me to.

[HighPrincessErinys]

HPE, is there anyone in this game who you are not currently suspicious of, and why? I appreciate a focus on scum, but also, like, identifying town is important.

And okay, then - in that case, what exactly was the problem you had with someone stating their reads are unreliable? Can you walk me through that reasoning, if the confidence someone projects doesn't have much to do with it?

Feeling pretty good about Jingle, and to a lesser extent petapan, mostly because they've been absent a bit. They've both been making rather nice posts (its hard to pin down specific ones to point out unfortunately) and Jingle's ISO in particularly feels very very solvey.

That's a good question, honestly, this one hasn't been thinking too super hard about it until you asked. It just felt like at the moment a kind of weird thing to say. "Hey guys, my reads are unreliable!" is, technically a humble and truthful thing to say because no one can ever be super precise, but its also kinda like, why should we believe you then? Jingle's been doing good, as mentioned, so its kinda whatever, but it just put this one off a bit. Guess that's really all there is to it.

I'm still unsure how why you singled them out for potential scum motivation if their accusations have been the same as others tbh

To clarify: You asked what makes you and peta's accusations different from wgeurts'. This one said the only common link was that you all three said it wasn't posting much of substance, because otherwise only wgeurts was making further accusations in the readwall like with the Jingle thing or power-up talk, etc.

[Jingle]

THEY GOT RID OF SHORTHAND POST TAGS? YOU MONSTERS!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

That's a loaded question. I am relatively strongly townreading adorable, but also I would probably be pro giving her the power even if I weren't.

Locking anything majorly significant behind a public use vote is kind of poor game design, and not something I'd expect from Cakez. Like... if scum needs a strongman or scumvig to be competitive and that's locked behind calling extra attention to themselves, that's a bad decision I think Cakez is better than making. If its moderate power, like a roleblock, then it sucks but it's not the end of the world if it turns on. If it's moderate townpower, like a tracker or a doctor we might lose adorable because I'm pointing scum at adorable by outing this, but I think it likely scum will just assume that it's not worth worrying over but also we wouldn't get the power anyway if I didn't make that post. If it's no power at all, scum might be swayed into shooting Adorable over someone who is more immediately threatening to them.

[p]253[/p] implies that there is a mechanical reason for wanting the power, and while GiF is a troll who might have told Adorable to go for the powerup because he knew/expected it was a waste of town's time, he's also a good enough mod that if there was a reason to want it he would definitely coach Adorable into trying for it at that point. And leaving which of those is actually the case openended is pretty obviously the right way to approach this as town.

Basically you value the opportunity to keep scum guessing? This explanation makes sense to me at face value though admittedly thinking about this stuff is not my strength

[Radical Rat]

Eh, I think if it were something actually important Adorable would have been pushing back harder against us abandoning the power up.

[Jingle]

Basically you value the opportunity to keep scum guessing?

Kind of? I'm presenting multiple different choices to scum that will all have a visible impact on the game state. Based on what happens (Adorable is NK'd/elim'd and flips VT, Adorable is NK'd/elim'd and flips not VT, Adorable lives and claims a result, Adorable lives and doesn't claim a result, Adorable lives and claims that there was no real mechanical reason for the powerup grab) we have more to go on as to what scum thinks is going on, and if we can figure out what scum thinks is going on we can work from there to figure out what their plan is. If we know the scum plan, we can more accurately scumhunt. It's all about tailoring the game to a place where we CAN solve the game instead of just trying to solve the game from the opening of the thread.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

oh yeah this one's easy already page 2
VOTE: HighPrincess

I eagerly await the in depth and well reasoned argument based off their *checks notes* 3 posts they had made to that point which I am sure you will never provide.

It seems like you picked up on the same issue with Fate's post that I saw, so it's surprising to me that you would also write this:

Lockscum

kids these days


doesn't nearly have a good a ring as confscum

Now.

For those questioning me, shhhhh, all in due time

That seems like a sketchy refusal to elaborate considering we only know for sure you've seen pages 1 and 2.

I think I missed a post by HPE in here where I was going to call out the beetlejuicing a second time, and instead accidentally posted the part where they threw shade on the person voting them instead. NAGL.

[wgeurts]

I'm more concerned with the application of the tell this early. It was explicitly beetlejuicing, but beetlejuicing is really only a scumtell if it's a pattern of behavior.

Okay what the hell is beetlejuicing

[Jingle]

Eh, I think if it were something actually important Adorable would have been pushing back harder against us abandoning the power up.

I mean... first of all not necessarily. They could be worried about the NK/elim and hoping that the next powerup is something they might be able to get, which I think makes sense with the self perception of being limbait regardless of her alignment. Second of all, this plays into the whole "The type of role that would be locked behind a public vote is likely less powerful than something else due to the swing the lock introduces." bit I brought up.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm more concerned with the application of the tell this early. It was explicitly beetlejuicing, but beetlejuicing is really only a scumtell if it's a pattern of behavior.

Okay what the hell is beetlejuicing

I thought it was if someone lurks in the game but then magically pops into the thread right when someone susses them

[Jingle]

Okay what the hell is beetlejuicing

Showing up to the thread immediately after being talked about, specifically immediately after being called scum. It's named after the movie Beetlejuice.

Also, as I said, it's not reliably scum indicative on it's own, but is worth noting, particularly in conjunction with things like active lurking and fluffposting.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If someone is active in the game, I figure they're probably refreshing it regularly, which makes the timing of it less suspect

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one has been keeping a fairly close eye on the thread today so far aside from going outside a couple times, so its not exactly beetlejuicing it feels?

[HighPrincessErinys]

If someone is active in the game, I figure they're probably refreshing it regularly, which makes the timing of it less suspect

This exactly.

[Jingle]

This one has been keeping a fairly close eye on the thread today so far aside from going outside a couple times, so its not exactly beetlejuicing it feels?

This is actually why it was originally considered a scumtell, the popular thought being that someone who is watching the thread but not contributing is more likely to be scum because they're, you know, not contributing. As a standalone tell it tends to be completely worthless because plenty of people read the thread constantly without replying as town, and plenty of people reply to every little thing as scum.

It's worth noting, because if ALL someone is doing is replying to the thread when they're brought up, it likely means they're not interested in solving the game and instead more interested in managing how people see them.

This has been Theory Time with Jingle, the part of the game where Jingle comes out and sings a silly song.