TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Cerberus v666]

Spoiler:

I'm Luigi, Ghost Hunter

I can detect if paranormal activity happens around a target. None happened around Cerberus last night

Therefore RR is at the very least not Ghost.


WHICH IM GUESSING means the scumteam is King Boo and Bowser. Would be very surprised if not the case, so my role is either a red herring useless thing or confirms non ghosts.


So yeah

Do your dirty thing Jingle. I expect great things, it's not for everyone I pass up an opportunity to fake claim as town

When you say "nothing happened" does that mean you received an affirmative result that there was no activity?

I was confirmed my action resolved and that I did not detect any paranormal activity

Then something's gone wrong somewhere, or you're lying

Me targeting Cerb means no one should have resolved any other actions on him

Well I don't think I can quote mod communication so I'm paraphrasing

It didn't say explicitly my action resolved or went through

But it said that I didn't detect any paranormal activity

Which is different than the 'no result's I'd expect if I was RBd or something


Does your role stop bodyguards and town actions and everything also?

Watcher usually resolves last so it can y'know watch things

So maybe you resolve right before me to stop everything above the chain

It says all actions targeting the player, so I assume that includes Town, yes.

I also believe that a proper negative result should be distinct from a no result.

But that's something you'll have to ask Cakez about

K I'll pm him, but RR I don't know what shenanigans are around but don't 1v1 me or anything drastic while I'm vla ok

Like I don't think as scum you'd out yourself in this way to 1v1 me, and since I got to go last as scum my fakeclaim would be solid LIKE CERBERUS HERE WHO CLAIMED AFTER ADORABLE

I'm not 1v1ing anything yet

If anything my instinct here is actually to look at Cerb...

Mod confirmed my action went through

VOTE: Cerberus I'll leave this here

Here's the full interaction from Fate claiming the result to claiming to have confirmed with the mod.

The first post is interpreting the result as a soft inno on me, which means Fate did see where I claimed to have targeted you, and chose to claim results anyway.
The questioning around resolution order or if I only block scum actions is strange, but seems to come from a place of genuinely figuring out why they have results.
Me telling them to ask directly about whether they'd receive the same message if blocked was an opportunity for Fate to back down from the conflict, and they did the opposite.

Unless Fate has a history of just pulling this kind of thing out of their ass, I'm not seeing this as a possible lying Town situation. Either Fate is telling the truth, which is how it looks to me, or Fate's lying as scum.

This one

At no point in that does Fate actually ask the specific question that I requested he ask. It seems unlikely that he's a "paranormal cop", but it is unclear if he's a paranormal motion detector, or a paranormal watcher vs tracker. Like, I don't think any of those things are actually relevant except for asking what his results would be if he were roleblocked, but they ARE important things he should want to know.

I'm actually fairly certain that, barring scum RB'ing you RR, Fate is 100% lying about their role and/or action and claimed the results that would directly implicate me because of my RB claim.

I'm also pretty sure he does that as town more often than he does so as scum. *shrug*

I should clarify - I don't think they're actually relevant for the interactions and results for last night, that is, since he's claiming he saw no paranormal activity from me. If he were claiming he saw paranormal activity and trying to use that as a guilty, than the clarification would be important.

[Radical Rat]

If Fate's faking it as Town to force a lim on you over your claim, why go through all the trouble of faking the confusion about it instead of just outright saying it?

[Cerberus v666]

Spoiler:

I'm Luigi, Ghost Hunter

I can detect if paranormal activity happens around a target. None happened around Cerberus last night

Therefore RR is at the very least not Ghost.


WHICH IM GUESSING means the scumteam is King Boo and Bowser. Would be very surprised if not the case, so my role is either a red herring useless thing or confirms non ghosts.


So yeah

Do your dirty thing Jingle. I expect great things, it's not for everyone I pass up an opportunity to fake claim as town

When you say "nothing happened" does that mean you received an affirmative result that there was no activity?

I was confirmed my action resolved and that I did not detect any paranormal activity

Then something's gone wrong somewhere, or you're lying

Me targeting Cerb means no one should have resolved any other actions on him

Well I don't think I can quote mod communication so I'm paraphrasing

It didn't say explicitly my action resolved or went through

But it said that I didn't detect any paranormal activity

Which is different than the 'no result's I'd expect if I was RBd or something


Does your role stop bodyguards and town actions and everything also?

Watcher usually resolves last so it can y'know watch things

So maybe you resolve right before me to stop everything above the chain

It says all actions targeting the player, so I assume that includes Town, yes.

I also believe that a proper negative result should be distinct from a no result.

But that's something you'll have to ask Cakez about

K I'll pm him, but RR I don't know what shenanigans are around but don't 1v1 me or anything drastic while I'm vla ok

Like I don't think as scum you'd out yourself in this way to 1v1 me, and since I got to go last as scum my fakeclaim would be solid LIKE CERBERUS HERE WHO CLAIMED AFTER ADORABLE

I'm not 1v1ing anything yet

If anything my instinct here is actually to look at Cerb...

Mod confirmed my action went through

VOTE: Cerberus I'll leave this here

Here's the full interaction from Fate claiming the result to claiming to have confirmed with the mod.

The first post is interpreting the result as a soft inno on me, which means Fate did see where I claimed to have targeted you, and chose to claim results anyway.
The questioning around resolution order or if I only block scum actions is strange, but seems to come from a place of genuinely figuring out why they have results.
Me telling them to ask directly about whether they'd receive the same message if blocked was an opportunity for Fate to back down from the conflict, and they did the opposite.

Unless Fate has a history of just pulling this kind of thing out of their ass, I'm not seeing this as a possible lying Town situation. Either Fate is telling the truth, which is how it looks to me, or Fate's lying as scum.

This one

At no point in that does Fate actually ask the specific question that I requested he ask. It seems unlikely that he's a "paranormal cop", but it is unclear if he's a paranormal motion detector, or a paranormal watcher vs tracker. Like, I don't think any of those things are actually relevant except for asking what his results would be if he were roleblocked, but they ARE important things he should want to know.

I'm actually fairly certain that, barring scum RB'ing you RR, Fate is 100% lying about their role and/or action and claimed the results that would directly implicate me because of my RB claim.

I'm also pretty sure he does that as town more often than he does so as scum. *shrug*

I should clarify - I don't think they're actually relevant for the interactions and results for last night, that is, since he's claiming he saw no paranormal activity from me. If he were claiming he saw paranormal activity and trying to use that as a guilty, than the clarification would be important.

Clarifying the clarification - the specific question he failed to ask was what result he would get if he were roleblocked. He just said the mod confirmed his action "went through".

pedit: just outright saying what exactly?

[Radical Rat]

"I received a result that should be impossible, you must have been roleblocked" or something like that. Why faff about with questions over resolution order, or clarifying explicit negative results with the mod, if all of those conclusions were already made up?

[Cerberus v666]

"I received a result that should be impossible, you must have been roleblocked" or something like that. Why faff about with questions over resolution order, or clarifying explicit negative results with the mod, if all of those conclusions were already made up?

To make it a non-explicit 1v1? If he outright says you must have been roleblocked, he's the driver of that conclusion instead of letting other people get there on there own so he isn't shouting into the void himself? Because he's fate and doesn't always do things the simple way? Like, I can't explain why Fate would approach something this way, or think why this is a more effective way to approach something at least. I just know I didn't roleblock last night, so a roleblock from me isn't in play, which means even scum redirection of some sort can't explain the results - it has to be additional roleblocking from scum, OR fate being wrong/lying about results. It's also possible that you're scum lying about your own actions and so on, but you're far more likely to be town than basically everyone else, and your role functions as a doctor and was claimed before everyone else claimed, so a CC claim from another directed protective role exists, so *shrug* that's sort of a thing that I'm putting in the very low probability space.

[Radical Rat]

What I'm trying to figure out here is why you don't seem to really be considering Fate as scum. It's always been that Fate's Town lying to frame you, when from your perspective I'd expect you to be scumreading at least one of us.

If Fate is lying, they've at least gone the extra mile to make it look as real as possible, and while that could theoretically come from a very conscientious scum, that kind of ass covering isn't something I expect from overconfident Town faking a claim for the lulz.

From where I'm sitting it looks an awful lot like you know you're losing in the "at least one scum in Cerb/RR/Fate" fight, and so are grasping for a way to sell it as TvTvT and get us to eliminate someone else.

[wgeurts]

Cerb, who is scum. If RR/Adorable/Fate are probably town you're going to end up angling that two of HPE/me/Jingle/Peta are scum and that's a hot take in most combinations. Convince me of it. Save your town reads for later, spare the energy, I want to know who you think we should be voting and why.

[Cerberus v666]

What I'm trying to figure out here is why you don't seem to really be considering Fate as scum. It's always been that Fate's Town lying to frame you, when from your perspective I'd expect you to be scumreading at least one of us.

If Fate is lying, they've at least gone the extra mile to make it look as real as possible, and while that could theoretically come from a very conscientious scum, that kind of ass covering isn't something I expect from overconfident Town faking a claim for the lulz.

From where I'm sitting it looks an awful lot like you know you're losing in the "at least one scum in Cerb/RR/Fate" fight, and so are grasping for a way to sell it as TvTvT and get us to eliminate someone else.

Because whoever said fate scum putting themselves into the center of all this makes no sense is right? Like yes, fate can do weird shit, but with all the options available from claiming last, jumping into this specifically to frame me also falls into that miniscule probability space.

Wgeurts: that's not necessarily true. It's entirely possible that I won't end up with strong scum reads based on the behaviors of the other slots, which means it's the "least town" who are the PoE. Nobody is really so Town that there's no way they're scum except maybe RR, from what i've seen - the fate situation is a single item, not a comprehensive overview, and is therefore not nearly certain enough.

Since you and Jingle are my strongest TRs from D1 the people of most interest to me are Peta/HPE which is why those are the ISOs I'm doing next.

I suppose I could assume my trs are good without further examination and look at those three in context of one another and see if a team is viable, not sure if that will really save me much time or is actually an effective approach. :/

[HighPrincessErinys]

Having another moment where this one has no fuckin' clue what to make of things right now. At bare minimum though this one would like to figure out what the hell is going on with Fate/RR before we elim Cerb because that whole thing reeks of scum being involved.

[Fate]

See I really don't see how my claim frames Cerb at all so

We're liming Cerb bc he's scum not because of my results just to be clear

This is what flailing and grasping at straws looks like people

[Fate]

Having another moment where this one has no fuckin' clue what to make of things right now. At bare minimum though this one would like to figure out what the hell is going on with Fate/RR before we elim Cerb because that whole thing reeks of scum being involved.

Seeing what scum PR Cerb is how well figure that out. All the claims are already on the table so the missing information is what scum did last night

[Radical Rat]

Having another moment where this one has no fuckin' clue what to make of things right now. At bare minimum though this one would like to figure out what the hell is going on with Fate/RR before we elim Cerb because that whole thing reeks of scum being involved.

And what would you have us do to figure that out? In theory we could no lim and let another night of results happen, but in the event scum has another interference role, or Cerb isn't actually a JOAT and is just a straight roleblocker, we end up in basically the same spot again, but down another Townie.

I know you voted me because you don't believe me, so presumably your answer is kill me instead, but you're wrong about me, and me flipping rolestopper isn't going to explain what actually happened, and if scum still has interference power, Fate dies alongside me and you're stuck in MeLo. Cerb continues to be the most likely candidate, but there's no way back out of MeLo. Hopefully you got a guilty result on your Tracker in that case, because you won't live to use another shot.

Eliminating Fate is slightly better in that there is potential for me to block a kill still, but is otherwise largely the same situation.

Eliminating a VT claim instead could get lucky, but unless you have a damn good reason Cerb is Town, or a damn good case against someone else (ideally both actually), I don't feel comfortable moving.

Now if we eliminate Cerb today, I very strongly suspect we'll know what happened last night, but even if he flips non-interference scum, or Town, we're going into the night in a much better position with multiple protectives and investigatives still active, and lots of data to be gathered from how the elimination went down, leading to a stronger position in MeLo.

The absolute worst case scenario is scum in either you or Adorable, but both of you are completely off the table for elimination today, so that's just how it has to be.

[petapan]

RAT DONT PLAY TO MY EMOTIONS

ITS LIKE YOU KNOW HOW TO SCUM AGAINST ME

THE PARANOIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WHERES LLD AND PETAPAN GODDAMNT

LLD is out of commission for the next few days so you're stuck with me as i try to regain focus on this game

[petapan]

I'm also more convinced in an RR town scenario my role is actually completely useless just bc

IT WOULD BE WOULDNT BE

I HEAR YOU CHUCKLING CAKEZ

I CAN HEAR YOU

i think by the description reading it again it's not impossible for the role to just be a red herring

[petapan]

Yeahhh. Have not liked Fate's tone this entire game tbh but that's not exactly a lim-worthy thing.

dunno his posting the last few pages reads town to me still

[petapan]

VOTE: RR

i'm going to sit here and ride vibes

[petapan]

i don't know how to articulate it well, my gut is just screaming at me that cerb ain't it and is not posting like scum who town is dead set on eliminating. certainly i don't expect all scum to give up without a fight, i just believe what he's posting to be real and not manufactured as an attempt at self-preservation or w/e

in particular i think him going "fate is probably lying about his role but is town" is just not an angle i expect to see from scum

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm Luigi, Ghost Hunter

I can detect if paranormal activity happens around a target. None happened around Cerberus last night

Therefore RR is at the very least not Ghost.


WHICH IM GUESSING means the scumteam is King Boo and Bowser. Would be very surprised if not the case, so my role is either a red herring useless thing or confirms non ghosts.


So yeah

Do your dirty thing Jingle. I expect great things, it's not for everyone I pass up an opportunity to fake claim as town

When you say "nothing happened" does that mean you received an affirmative result that there was no activity?

I was confirmed my action resolved and that I did not detect any paranormal activity

Then something's gone wrong somewhere, or you're lying

Me targeting Cerb means no one should have resolved any other actions on him

Well I don't think I can quote mod communication so I'm paraphrasing

It didn't say explicitly my action resolved or went through

But it said that I didn't detect any paranormal activity

Which is different than the 'no result's I'd expect if I was RBd or something


Does your role stop bodyguards and town actions and everything also?

Watcher usually resolves last so it can y'know watch things

So maybe you resolve right before me to stop everything above the chain

It says all actions targeting the player, so I assume that includes Town, yes.

I also believe that a proper negative result should be distinct from a no result.

But that's something you'll have to ask Cakez about

K I'll pm him, but RR I don't know what shenanigans are around but don't 1v1 me or anything drastic while I'm vla ok

Like I don't think as scum you'd out yourself in this way to 1v1 me, and since I got to go last as scum my fakeclaim would be solid LIKE CERBERUS HERE WHO CLAIMED AFTER ADORABLE

I'm not 1v1ing anything yet

If anything my instinct here is actually to look at Cerb...

Mod confirmed my action went through

VOTE: Cerberus I'll leave this here

Here's the full interaction from Fate claiming the result to claiming to have confirmed with the mod.

The first post is interpreting the result as a soft inno on me, which means Fate did see where I claimed to have targeted you, and chose to claim results anyway.
The questioning around resolution order or if I only block scum actions is strange, but seems to come from a place of genuinely figuring out why they have results.
Me telling them to ask directly about whether they'd receive the same message if blocked was an opportunity for Fate to back down from the conflict, and they did the opposite.

Unless Fate has a history of just pulling this kind of thing out of their ass, I'm not seeing this as a possible lying Town situation. Either Fate is telling the truth, which is how it looks to me, or Fate's lying as scum.

This one

At no point in that does Fate actually ask the specific question that I requested he ask. It seems unlikely that he's a "paranormal cop", but it is unclear if he's a paranormal motion detector, or a paranormal watcher vs tracker. Like, I don't think any of those things are actually relevant except for asking what his results would be if he were roleblocked, but they ARE important things he should want to know.

I'm actually fairly certain that, barring scum RB'ing you RR, Fate is 100% lying about their role and/or action and claimed the results that would directly implicate me because of my RB claim.

I'm also pretty sure he does that as town more often than he does so as scum. *shrug*

[Radical Rat]

It's the only angle he CAN take. If either myself or Fate die, and our claims are as we say, Cerb comes out looking worse.

The only chance he has is to convince people to vote outside the Shenanigan Zone and then turn it onto either me or Fate tomorrow.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Having another moment where this one has no fuckin' clue what to make of things right now. At bare minimum though this one would like to figure out what the hell is going on with Fate/RR before we elim Cerb because that whole thing reeks of scum being involved.

And what would you have us do to figure that out? In theory we could no lim and let another night of results happen, but in the event scum has another interference role, or Cerb isn't actually a JOAT and is just a straight roleblocker, we end up in basically the same spot again, but down another Townie.

Do not like this speculative scum RBer scapegoat to explain the discrepancy, especially when as this one said in 1353 that if a scum!Cerb is being truthful about the nature of his JOAT actions that he would absolutely investigate someone rather than RB at random. As you've also said yourself you mostly believe Cerb on his JOAT claim, but again there isn't any logical reason for scum!Cerb to RB you specifically as you seem to think he did? It's just a really weird argument predicated on bad scum play unless scum actually just DOES have another roleblocker outside of a scumJOAT!Cerb which would be kinda insane.

[Radical Rat]

We know that all the VTs are Toads. With that knowledge, we know that everyone who voiced suspicion that Toads were VTs instead of Goombas are not VT.

We do not know whether scum had that knowledge in advance, but after the Porkens flip they could have made an educated guess.

From there, blocking one and killing another makes perfect sense as a scum play.

[HighPrincessErinys]

We know that all the VTs are Toads. With that knowledge, we know that everyone who voiced suspicion that Toads were VTs instead of Goombas are not VT.

We do not know whether scum had that knowledge in advance, but after the Porkens flip they could have made an educated guess.

From there, blocking one and killing another makes perfect sense as a scum play.

By that logic, it should've been Adorable who died N1 and not CSF, considering you and Adorable were the two main people to raise suspicion, meanwhile CSF just said "lim Porkens" afterwards.

[Radical Rat]

She also said "What Rat said"

[HighPrincessErinys]

darn.

You're still just speculating convenient explanations for the discrepancy imo, because there's no way for us to know about the whole multiple VT flavors or not thing unless scum comes and openly announces if they were told or not in advance. And by your reasoning, yes technically an RB on you is sensible, but so is an RB on Adorable, and guess who Cerb claims to have investigated? If he did roleblock, this one would think it'd be on the person he's claiming he actually investigated, but didn't. And again, Adorable's push for the power-up D1 was very conspicuous and very RB-worthy on it's own.

[Radical Rat]

From my point of view, either Fate is lying, or scum has at least one interference role. I do not believe Fate's posting around this looks like lying, so interference is the only remaining possibility.

That isn't speculation.

[HighPrincessErinys]

THAT IS LITERALLY SPECULATION