Open 103 (Even/Odd C9): Schoolyard Vengence! Over before 712

[ZazieR]

Vote Farside

Your plan has worked once, but it won't work twice on me (regarding the appeal to emotion according to armlx )

[ZazieR]

a beautiful son

Why do you otherwise think your plan succeeded .

But luckily, armlx supports me .
Shoot, he's not in this game. Is there anybody who wants to replace out for armlx ?

[ZazieR]

Alphabet puts you first. zachattack's pretty safe for now.

?

[ZazieR]

I felt ignored (regarding Fhq's alphabetic part)...

Stef, no bad hairday today?

[ZazieR]

But Stef, any reason why you voted yourself?

[ZazieR]

Unvote Vote Stef

Don't trust it.

[ZazieR]

What's the meaning of this Stef?

[ZazieR]

You're third random vote. Including a self-vote.
I have never seen you do this before. So why?

[ZazieR]

That's why I'm suspicious of it. Perhaps if you have the quicktopic chat of mini 672, you can see why. *hint * And I'm suspicious of selfvotes after Korts's action.

What's the reason for changing your vote three times? Give me one good reason.

Zach, I just saw that you unvoted and voted TV to start a bandwagon. Why would you do that, when you're vote was already on a bandwagon?

[ZazieR]

Start by explaining what I did refering to this:

There's one thing to try to end the random stage but it's a whole other ball game to do it like you did. I don't like it.

Tell me how keep on random voting will bring us out the random voting stage.

I would love to point something out, but that game's still ongoing.

And you may try to explain how changing your vote three times is helpful. You may even point out why you did this.

[ZazieR]

Tell me who else is suspicious at this moment. The only one I can call right now is Zach from changing from one bandwagon to the next. You voted yourself, and you random voted three times in total. That draws attention to you. And now you got it.
If I hadn't made this comment about your selfvote and the other random votes, what would you have done in your next post?

Explain where I relied on meta.

No, you didn't say that it was helpful. But if you're a townie, you want the best for town. So your action of 3 random votes should have been helpful. Besides, why do it if it's not helpful?
Random votes should help us out of the RVS to get discussion started. In one of my games, this was achieved as someone put a player at L-2 with only random votes. But changing every time to someone with no votes doesn't seem helpful to me. Take your last vote. Due to your unvote, you went from someone with two votes, to two players with each one vote. To me, two votes on one player is better than two players with each one vote.
And your selfvote. Give me one reason why a selfvote is good. Town doesn't gain anything from it. And I've seen scum use it as a pro-town gambit. So I'm extra weary due to that. But if you had a good reason for your selfvote, then tell and I won't bring it up in an attack.

And once again. How would your vote hopping have lead us out the RVS if nobody attacked you for it?
Besides, why vote me for attacking you, while TV also made a comment about it?

[ZazieR]

First one is wrong. I wanted to point something out, because it's actually funny. It has nothing to do with your reasons or with your allignment as far as I know.

Only my attention? Two others gave comments about your vote hopping. One hasn't been online for a long time. And Farside hasn't been online since this discussion has started. Only Zach hasn't made any notice yet. Which is the reason why he is number two for me.
How is it a tell? Why do it? That's my point. I don't trust it as it had no use at all.

What would you have done to let the non-active players post? Why aren't you trying right now?
You got reactions. You addressed mine and Fhq. Why not -TV-? He attacked you as well. He gave you a FoS. So how come Fhq is jumping with me, but not -TV-?

Perhaps I'm not calling you anti-town, but doesn't suspicious apply for this as well ?
Uhm, no townie can help the town in the RVS, but they can help the town to get out of the RVS. And I don't think random voting the whole time will achieve this. And that's my point of you not being helpful.

In the RVS the actions of players don't need to be helpful for the town even if the player is town.

Oh really ?

I unvoted. I'm at L-2. 3 people weren't going to jump in and hammer me before i could unvote. Be serious.

Not to mention that i do not see how it's better for a player on whom we have no tells either way to be at L-2 so early.

So how is this different from the time you were at L-2?
And how is a random vote useful on a player who is probably not even checking this game?

I don't need a reason since i didn't need to do anything good or bad for me or the town.

I think you are able to find out what I mean. Otherwise, I'll bold it the next time.

Where did i say that i wanted my vote hopping to lead us out of the RVS? Tisk tisk.

You didn't. I assumed it as I thought this was your way to get out of the RVS. Then what was your reason for changing your vote the whole time?

because he made a comment. He didn't make a case out of nothing and he didn't vote based on it since, as he stated, it's no reason for a vote. You, on the other hand, seem to think it is when it's clearly not.

FOS Stef for bouncing his vote around so much. It's still early yet, so it's not worth a vote.

You sure about that quote Stef?

@ZazieR: I am not really defending myself because the case you made is too weak and that's also why i've voted you. Posting just to point the holes in your case since scum sometimes makes crappy cases against players if they can find anything out of the ordinary about them and try to push them towards a lynch and usually those cases have holes in them as does yours.

And your case against me is that I'm having a weak case against you. Now that's a strong case

[ZazieR]

EBWOP What do you think of Fhq right now?

[ZazieR]

@Stef
The reason why Zach is number 2 for me, is because he didn't give his thoughts about our discussion. Everybody else did so. I don't see any reasons to not give your thoughts and that's why I find him suspicious.

The reason why I don't like it as it's different than usual. There aren't many selfvotes during the RVS and there aren't many hops as well. At the start of a game, I take even the littlest thing to start with to get this game rolling. Your actions were different than usual and that's why I start with you.

You said it yourself:

Probably i would have tried to get the users who haven't posted to post

That's why I asked how you would get them to post. Especially when it's likely that a player isn't looking at this game. How would a vote get them to post when they aren't looking?

If I remembered correctly, you started attacking me as I voted you with reasons which you saw as stupid. After a few posts, you started attack FHQ as well. You thought that he wanted to jump with me. Then tell me, why FHQ over -TV-, while -TV- FoSed you for the reasons I voted you?

You said that I didn't call your actions anti-town. You said this in one of your posts. But I've said that your actions were suspicious. That was my point with that question.

What could the RVS have done which could be helfpul for discussion later on?

I reacted like that as there was no other reaction possible. I've learned that everything you do should be helpful towards the town. Clearly, you didn't.

It's easy. There have been two players at L-2. The first one was you, which included your own vote and that of Zach. Later was this due to Zach and FHQ. The second was -TV-. Your vote and that of Zach made this happen.
You said this:

Not to mention that i do not see how it's better for a player on whom we have no tells either way to be at L-2 so early.

Then why did you keep your own vote on yourself for some time?

Normally a vote is put on a lurker to show that player that he has a vote. To make sure that he will post. It's kind of a threat. But what's the use of this when someone is probably not checking this game?

I don't need a reason

since i didn't need

to do anything

good or

bad for me or the town

.

Here's the bolded.

Give me one reason why you didn't want to go out the RVS. The reason why I wanted to know why you changed your votes the whole time, is because i don't see it happen much. May I not be curious? But now, you give a reason to your random votes (the 'post more' reason). Then I start wondering why you just didn't say that.

I'll wait for -TV-'s comments before going into this.

Like I said, I start with something little to get this game started. This wasn't a case when we started. But with your recent comments, it's starting to be one. Regarding your comment about town wouldn't do this, remember Charter? And there are more players like him out there. I don't think they are scum in every game.


Zach, are you now choosing me as a scapegoat?

And if you don't mind, I'd like to post this here as the mod of my other game with Stef had posted this in his game, but I'm not sure if our mod knows about it:

Stef has informed me that he will be without internet access for the next four (4) days.

That way everybody will know that Stef won't post for a while.

[ZazieR]

Like I said, I start with something little to get this game started.

Stef's vote hopping and selfvote caught my attention. That's why I decided to go for Stef. If you hadn't seen it yet, this game was stalling. There were players putting their votes on lurkers trying to let them post. Then it's better to take small things and overblow them than to keep waiting.

Zach, you can see this in many of my games right now. I always pick something little when a game's stalling. It's to get this game started. At least it's better than voting a non-active player.

Zazie's throwing a lot of suspicion on Stef, and although I can see how someone could find stef hopping around unhelpful, I think it's a big leap from Stefs not helping the town during the random vote stage to Stef is scum.

Here's the answer to your question.

The ones who talk less have more to hide. Looking at ZazieR and Tini in regards to comment.

Are you saying that those who are more active have less to hide? Then who of you, Zach, SSK and -TV- have something to hide. Because I can't say that these players have talked much. Also, are you aware that you're the only player who has still left their random vote. Why's that?

SSK always plays like this.

Happy birthday Battousai

[ZazieR]

Atlas's post history
This is how I knew that Atlas wasn't paying any attention.
What can your vote do when it's lying on a player who isn't checking this game? That's why I make a deal out of it. It had more use on -TV- so why change it?

So you attacked fhq over -TV- for no reason? You said that fhq seemed eager to jump with me. How come you got this impression from him, but not from -TV-? Also, when can we expect your cases?

And sometimes nothing big happens during the RVS. Like in this game. So tell me why it's bad that I took something little to investigate?

This is the first time I have heard that it's anti-town to take the game out of the RVS.

See above how you could know that Atlas wasn't checking this game.

i voted for atlas because she hadn't posted. That's all i can do really besides asking her to give her thoughts on what's happening which i did.

I thought you said that as well about your -TV- vote, but apparently I was wrong about that one. But that wasn't the case with your Atlas vote. Why pick a random reason and later say that you wanted Atlas to post?

Also, you may explain the bolded in case you forgot about this:

I don't need a reason

since i didn't need

to do anything

good or

bad for me or the town

[ZazieR]

Although you didn't have to check, it doesn't make sense why you switched. I don't see why L-2 was bad at that moment. -TV- had also only one post, just like Atlas, but you decided to switch your vote to Atlas.
If i remember correctly, you unvoted as -TV- was at L-2. Then why didn't you unvote immediatly after Zach voted -TV-?

I think we have discussed this already, ppl have different opinions. What you see as nothing, doesn't mean that I see it as nothing as well.

No, tell me, why would a townie want to do something bad to himself or to the town, even if it was the RVS. I can see why scum want to do that, but a townie? Please explain.

About your points, I thought you would know by now how I play.

[ZazieR]

Immediatly after I saw that you entered this game, I knew why .
Also, thanks for the sweet words at Survival, KMD.

I don't know what to think about Stef yet. Like I said, I always take something little to start with. And in this case it was Stef's behaviour during the RVS. But his response bothered me. I will point that out some other time.

Two players that also caught my attention are -TV- and Zach. I'll try to point this out as well in my next post.

[ZazieR]

So it is actual suspicion, although maybe not too strong yet, and not just something to get discussion going, correct?

Like I said, I'll take something smalls to start the game. So actually it's both. But the 3 RVS votes and the selfvote aren't something I want to lynch him for.