Open 877 | 09:12 | It's Over!

[redFF]

Just there are various levels to me giving a fuck. I will grant you a troll hammer is something I'm not usually doing. But game was dead and it was a vt so it's not that much harm done in the grand scheme of things

[Dunnstral]

The thing is you didn't know it was a vt when you hammered

[Dunnstral]

I'm looking at redFF's posts on site and they seem to try in games. Like they have thought put into their posts. And in this game I am instead getting a trolly vibe which doesn't match with what I am seeing. What is up with that?

Terrible post, we are 3 pages into the game. Scumread.

I'm looking at redFF's posts on site and they seem to try in games. Like they have thought put into their posts. And in this game I am instead getting a trolly vibe which doesn't match with what I am seeing. What is up with that?

Terrible post, we are 3 pages into the game. Scumread.

I mean... do you disagree that you've given off that vibe? I feel like hammering five minutes after reading your role PM is enough to singlehandedly conclude that you aren't really trying, and 43 is enough to singlehandedly conclude that you have a trolly vibe, page count be damned.

Like,

you

are the one who caused day 2 to start on page 2, and now you're criticizing someone for making conclusions about you based on your day 1 play?

that's fair

I'm reading post 87 as disagreeing with your post 80, and post 88 as agreeing with post 87. So logically I would expect you to walk back your read in post 80. Right now your thoughts process doesn't make sense to me, as you seem to be agreeing with post 87 but still hold the opinion in post 80 (which is in conflict with post 87).

Am I misunderstanding what your post 88 is saying?

[redFF]

implosion didnt come out with a bs meta read like you did

[Dunnstral]

Umlaut looked at one game from me. What about viewtopic.php?t=90462&user_select%5B%5D=15797

Or

viewtopic.php?t=90494&user_select%5B%5D=15797

These games don't look similar to this game for the same reason: You don't give off a trolly vibe in those games. You are welcome to highlight how you think those are similar to this game though.

[Dunnstral]

implosion didnt come out with a bs meta read like you did

Yeah instead they're going to vote you for hammering and they made that clear at the start of the day. Is that preferable to you?

[Dunnstral]

I'm looking at redFF's posts on site and they seem to try in games. Like they have thought put into their posts. And in this game I am instead getting a trolly vibe which doesn't match with what I am seeing. What is up with that?

Terrible post, we are 3 pages into the game. Scumread.

I'm looking at redFF's posts on site and they seem to try in games. Like they have thought put into their posts. And in this game I am instead getting a trolly vibe which doesn't match with what I am seeing. What is up with that?

Terrible post, we are 3 pages into the game. Scumread.

I mean... do you disagree that you've given off that vibe? I feel like hammering five minutes after reading your role PM is enough to singlehandedly conclude that you aren't really trying, and 43 is enough to singlehandedly conclude that you have a trolly vibe, page count be damned.

Like,

you

are the one who caused day 2 to start on page 2, and now you're criticizing someone for making conclusions about you based on your day 1 play?

that's fair

I'm reading post 87 as disagreeing with your post 80, and post 88 as agreeing with post 87. So logically I would expect you to walk back your read in post 80. Right now your thoughts process doesn't make sense to me, as you seem to be agreeing with post 87 but still hold the opinion in post 80 (which is in conflict with post 87).

Am I misunderstanding what your post 88 is saying?

implosion didnt come out with a bs meta read like you did

Hold on, post 87 is Implosion agreeing with the meta read.

[implosion]

Eh, post 87 is me agreeing that red is being trolly in this game. I don't think that's a great reason to scumread them unless red also has a history of acting trolly as scum; if red has been serious in 100% of games up to this point and then suddenly does this in this game, I don't think that'd come from scum especially more often than from town, I think that sort of drastic departure is something scum might be scared to do. But that's beside the point because I don't think red viewed it as a drastic departure from their meta.

The better reason to scumread red is simple: they quickhammered. Quickhammering is pro-scum. Beyond it being a reason to read red as scum, we shouldn't let someone get away with it for no reason. red is saying no harm was done because it was a VT, but is ignoring two other very important harms: the harm of removing all communication from the town on day one, and the harm of poisoning their own slot and forcing all discourse to center around it for the time being. We now have this looming question of "do we punish the quickhammer before doing anything else?" And red, if town, has to have known that we might just lim them next for the quickhammer, which would leave us in elo.

[implosion]

I honestly don't have like any interest in the red's-meta discussion for the above reasons, I think there's better uses of all of our time. Some things I wouldn't mind hearing from red: do you prefer town or scum? Did you make any considerations about impact on the game whatsoever before quickhammering, or did you just see the opportunity and impulsively take it?

After thinking about the people on yesterday's wagon a little more:

• Moderate townread on Dunnstral for not just saying "red is scummy because hammer" but actually doing the homework to verify this isn't their usual game.
  
• Implo seems to be trying at least so gets some town points for that. I overall like 64 and while I'm not thrilled with 65 ("possibly from scum" is a pretty weak claim, every post in the game is possibly from scum; do you think I'm scummy or not?) it did get a brief discussion going which is a pro-town move overall.
  
• Bulge's response to me in 76 is satisfactory. I can't put too much weight on it since I already sort of pointed to the right answer ("I wanted to make things happen") but it still is the right answer. Also I sort of think it would be hard for scum to write that they found a page 2 quickhammer on town "funny" without feeling very self-conscious about it.

If we're looking for scum on the wagon I'd look in red (obviously) and Meg. I can't complain about any of Meg's posts but there isn't enough there to support a townread.

This analysis all feels a bit rote except for the comment on Bulge finding the quickhammer funny (which I also agree with, I think Bulge is fairly town for that and other reasons). It's sort of just commenting on the things that are obligatory to comment on, and commenting on them in the obligatory way.

I don't even know why trying per se in this gamestate to the extent Dunn or I have should be town-indicative, this gamestate is probably easy as heck to play in as scum. In particular it's not hard as scum to look at like one game of meta and draw a conclusion from that. This makes the analysis on the two of us feel very surface level. The "possibly from scum" thing is also very surface level (and granted I've made analysis like that before) but yeah, in context I think it's pretty clear that the phrase "possibly from scum" means "here's a thing that I think is scum-indicative, but probably quite weakly".

[implosion]

Asri, can you explain your Bulge scumread?

[Dunnstral]

Umlaut Who do you think is the towniest/scummiest on the kop wagon except red.

Anyone else can answer as well

Liking implo so far, kinda forgor about this game and its late so i'll have more tomorrow

How about this game? What are your rhoughts on other slots red?

Meg can you explain how you went from wanting to talk about other people in post 58 to wanting to pressure red in post 93. And did anything ever come out of 58?

[redFF]

Some things I wouldn't mind hearing from red: do you prefer town or scum? Did you make any considerations about impact on the game whatsoever before quickhammering, or did you just see the opportunity and impulsively take it?

I prefer town. I haven't played scum since my comeback, so many many years, but I always got nervous.
Regarding quickhammering, no. I just did it to do it.

[Umlaut]

This analysis all feels a bit rote except for the comment on Bulge finding the quickhammer funny (which I also agree with, I think Bulge is fairly town for that and other reasons). It's sort of just commenting on the things that are obligatory to comment on, and commenting on them in the obligatory way.

I don't even know why trying per se in this gamestate to the extent Dunn or I have should be town-indicative, this gamestate is probably easy as heck to play in as scum. In particular it's not hard as scum to look at like one game of meta and draw a conclusion from that. This makes the analysis on the two of us feel very surface level. The "possibly from scum" thing is also very surface level (and granted I've made analysis like that before) but yeah, in context I think it's pretty clear that the phrase "possibly from scum" means "here's a thing that I think is scum-indicative, but probably quite weakly".

It's clearly not obligatory to comment on anything since no one else seemed to be doing it. Like, what deep analysis are you looking for me to provide of a game where no one has posted in 12 hours and roughly half the players have fewer posts than the mod?

Trying like you and Dunn have been doing is not locktown, you're right, but it's at least town-indicative. You don't have any really sufficient reason to do anything but let everyone lurk the game to death if you're scum. You might do it anyway but it would be a mistake, imo.

[Asri Teroka]

Asri, can you explain your Bulge scumread?

Felt bad I guess to this one. Now eh? This one guesses that redff feels town maybe.

[implosion]

Felt bad I guess to this one.

This is an inadequate explanation.

It's clearly not obligatory to comment on anything since no one else seemed to be doing it. Like, what deep analysis are you looking for me to provide of a game where no one has posted in 12 hours and roughly half the players have fewer posts than the mod?

Obligatory in the sense of busywork that scum will feel obligated to do; scum need to give content and the obvious thing to give content on is the wagon and the obvious thing to say about the wagon is that red is scum and the people on the wagon who are now giving content are town. It's not that I expect deeper analysis per se. It's more that 91 reads to me somewhat as saying things because one must say things in a game of mafia. And again I did like the comment on Bulge.

To be clear this is not a strong scumread.

[implosion]

I prefer town. I haven't played scum since my comeback, so many many years, but I always got nervous.
Regarding quickhammering, no. I just did it to do it.

Do you think you'd have done it as scum?

[redFF]

I prefer town. I haven't played scum since my comeback, so many many years, but I always got nervous.
Regarding quickhammering, no. I just did it to do it.

Do you think you'd have done it as scum?

Hard to say. I'd like to say that I would have, but probably not.

[implosion]

Dunn, do you actually scumread redFF for the trolly vibe? Or is it just an observation you're not sure what to make of? It seems implicit that it's a scumread but I don't think it's been made explicit, and you started it off by asking "what's up with that" rhetorically. If you do scumread red, is it based entirely on that, or do you also scumread the quickhammer for being a quickhammer/scumread red for other things?

[Asri Teroka]

Felt bad I guess to this one.

This is an inadequate explanation.

This one disagrees. If someone felt scummy they feel scummy. Looking back on what bulge has said and done, this one persists.

[Asri Teroka]

Felt bad I guess to this one.

This is an inadequate explanation.

This one disagrees. If someone felt scummy they feel scummy. Looking back on what bulge has said and done, this one persists.

[Asri Teroka]

Felt bad I guess to this one.

This is an inadequate explanation.

This one disagrees. If someone felt scummy they feel scummy. Looking back on what bulge has said and done, this one persists.

/.................... Uh.

[The Bulge]

I'm looking at redFF's posts on site and they seem to try in games. Like they have thought put into their posts. And in this game I am instead getting a trolly vibe which doesn't match with what I am seeing. What is up with that?

i mean there's not much to go off of in the first two pages for any serious content

would love for red to chime in. im not ready to call him scum for the hammer, it didnt seem all too serious and given the gamestate idk if its even AI. but without a comment from him at this point the game will continue to stall and that pushes him right off the fence between trolling and antitown.

You seem to disagree with me in your first post here but then you come to the same conclusion anyway. Or are you seeing this as different from what I'm saying?

i didnt disagree with the content of your post i just thought "what is up with that" was a silly question with an obvious answer. like i wasnt sure what was so confusing about a nonserious vibe in the gamestate we had here d1

[The Bulge]

I like implo and asri as town

Dunnstral as scum

Rest no strong opinion either way

youre the first to really give a read on asri, could you walk me through that?

[The Bulge]

pretend i havent read any of their posts

[The Bulge]

umlaut what do you think about active lurking as a scum tactic when the thread is moving slow?