Open 877 | 09:12 | It's Over!

[Umlaut]

Hello!

Slip.

VOTE: Asri Teroka

[Umlaut]

Obvious omgus, we got one folks

[Umlaut]

This one pondered but simply on what to say. This one wanted to say 'first' but decided 'Hello!' is good. This one also somehow believed you didn't say 'Hello!' but something else... the symmetry ended up being pleasant.

I can already tell what a joy it will be trying to get a read on Asri this game.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: kop

e-1

How serious is this vote?

[Umlaut]

Um, no they couldn't? If someone hammered for that reason I at least would not shut up about it the next day until they were launched for it. Wouldn't you?

[Umlaut]

Oh ffs.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: redFF

Quash all quickhammers

[Umlaut]

Actually Umlaut's play reads as possibly from scum to me. The specific question they asked Bulge of "how serious was your vote" feels kind of filler. I feel like it's pretty obvious that e-1 in post 35 on someone who has made one post is not supposed to be serious, and I'm not sure what Umlaut expects to get out of an answer to that question.

I wasn't sure, because it came right after Kop's post and because putting someone on E-1 for no reason is... not unheard of, but unusual at least. I really wanted to know if Bulge had some sort of read on Kop from the post. Still want to know actually what his intentions were with that vote.

[Umlaut]

It was also kind of an attempt to poke at

something

to get the game going since nothing was happening

[Umlaut]

Umlaut Who do you think is the towniest/scummiest on the kop wagon except red.

Anyone else can answer as well

I don't think there's a lot to get out of the wagon (which is exactly why hammering it was so terrible). I guess yours and implo's are the least suspect since you both just voted randomly but that's a very, very weak signal.

[Umlaut]

i'll answer that on page 4

Page 4 is coming up

[Umlaut]

right after this post.

[Umlaut]

Hey, it's Page 4! Bulge, why did you E-1 Kop?

[Umlaut]

That makes sense... I mean, it worked in that it got me to ask about it which maybe could have gone somewhere yesterday if not for the lolhammer.

[Umlaut]

This one a bit sick so very neutral on the hammer. It flips scum or vannila? This one hopes.

I hope you're feeling better. That said, this reaction bugs me and I don't think it's just the writing style. You had

no

opinion of the hammer, positive or negative or even just surprised, before seeing the fliip?

[Umlaut]

After thinking about the people on yesterday's wagon a little more:

• Moderate townread on Dunnstral for not just saying "red is scummy because hammer" but actually doing the homework to verify this isn't their usual game.
  
• Implo seems to be trying at least so gets some town points for that. I overall like 64 and while I'm not thrilled with 65 ("possibly from scum" is a pretty weak claim, every post in the game is possibly from scum; do you think I'm scummy or not?) it did get a brief discussion going which is a pro-town move overall.
  
• Bulge's response to me in 76 is satisfactory. I can't put too much weight on it since I already sort of pointed to the right answer ("I wanted to make things happen") but it still is the right answer. Also I sort of think it would be hard for scum to write that they found a page 2 quickhammer on town "funny" without feeling very self-conscious about it.

If we're looking for scum on the wagon I'd look in red (obviously) and Meg. I can't complain about any of Meg's posts but there isn't enough there to support a townread.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut looked at one game from me. What about viewtopic.php?t=90462&user_select%5B%5D=15797

Or

viewtopic.php?t=90494&user_select%5B%5D=15797

I think you mean Dunnstral looked at one game, not me.

Anyway, I looked at the two games you linked. What are you trying to show me? You were terse but you were mostly serious and not just hammering for the hell of it.

[Umlaut]

This analysis all feels a bit rote except for the comment on Bulge finding the quickhammer funny (which I also agree with, I think Bulge is fairly town for that and other reasons). It's sort of just commenting on the things that are obligatory to comment on, and commenting on them in the obligatory way.

I don't even know why trying per se in this gamestate to the extent Dunn or I have should be town-indicative, this gamestate is probably easy as heck to play in as scum. In particular it's not hard as scum to look at like one game of meta and draw a conclusion from that. This makes the analysis on the two of us feel very surface level. The "possibly from scum" thing is also very surface level (and granted I've made analysis like that before) but yeah, in context I think it's pretty clear that the phrase "possibly from scum" means "here's a thing that I think is scum-indicative, but probably quite weakly".

It's clearly not obligatory to comment on anything since no one else seemed to be doing it. Like, what deep analysis are you looking for me to provide of a game where no one has posted in 12 hours and roughly half the players have fewer posts than the mod?

Trying like you and Dunn have been doing is not locktown, you're right, but it's at least town-indicative. You don't have any really sufficient reason to do anything but let everyone lurk the game to death if you're scum. You might do it anyway but it would be a mistake, imo.

[Umlaut]

Just spent way too long on other tasks and need to spend the rest of my day doing my actual job but will swing by just to answer 124: I think lurking is pretty much the dominant strategy as scum in a game where no one is doing anything, the exception being maybe someone who has a reputation for hyperposting (and most likely already knows that).

[Umlaut]

This one has no need to bow to your conception of 'adequacy.'

VOTE: Umlaut

Knock knock!

Who's there?

[Umlaut]

That said the discussion has been pretty tame.

Asri feels off but I don't really have a concrete reason why. Maybe 44/94 which feel kinda unneccesary.

I got bad vibes from 44 too and this helps me put my finger on why. Like if you don't have an opinion about the hammer why chime in at all? But I don't have the same problem with 94 for some reason, saying "Yeah, I want to know the answer to that too" is a pretty ordinary and NAI thing to do. Do you disagree?

[Umlaut]

no u

no u who?

[Umlaut]

Um just wants red?

Yes, I'm voting the person I want to eliminate. There's not a whole lot to say about it. He quickhammered, it's anti-town, we lim it barring some remarkably good excuse.

[Umlaut]

Asri, it sounds like you're saying you're just suspicious of everyone who has been suspicious of you? Which... is actually kind of a town-emotional thing to do, but not a great idea.

[Umlaut]

do you think red is likely to be scum or is it more policy?

A little of A, a little of B. I like to think I would want to policy-launch him even if he seemed pretty towny to me because I think it would be the right thing to do, but as it stands he can easily be scum so I don't have to be conflicted about it.

• Red has done nothing he couldn't do as scum (unless you believe his assertion that he probably wouldn't hammer as scum). He's low-activity, he doesn't seem to really care about the game, the closest thing to sorting in his ISO is 95 and that's... like, barely sorting at all. There's no big smoking-gun tell, just a lot of nothing that makes him likely scum. I'd say I'm about 50% sure I see some red text when he flips, which sounds low but is pretty good odds in a game where the baseline probability of hitting scum is 2/7.
  
  
• The "punish unjustified quickhammers" policy is actually a good one, and I think it's a shame so many people now try to be clever and nuanced and WIFOM themselves out of it when they should just do the obvious thing. I think Red is familiar enough with current meta to have believed he could well get away with that hammer as scum, and I want to show him that he is wrong.

[Umlaut]

Actually make it more like 60-70% sure since I see various reasons to townread all of {Dunn, implo, Bulge}.

[Umlaut]

Actually implo is probably right that it's just Red/Meg. Maybe Asri but I think even though their earlier posting pinged me it was really more of a playstyle thing.

[Umlaut]

Um just wants red?

Yes, I'm voting the person I want to eliminate. There's not a whole lot to say about it. He quickhammered, it's anti-town, we lim it barring some remarkably good excuse.

I'll probably also move my vote to red once Bulge checks in again, thinking todays discussion isn't really moving onward.

Asking you the same question Bulge asked me. How likely do you actually think it is that Red is scum?

[Umlaut]

I'm pretty ready to move on to the next day
VOTE: Red
Red should claim

Can you answer [post]173[post]?

[Umlaut]

sigh. 173

[Umlaut]

Kind of V/LA today but can check in at least.

I have no idea what Bulge is talking about re. my following a smooth confident path because I feel like I don't have much to go on at all in this game. Still think red is the lim today, the only thing the VT claim does for me is reassure me we aren't hitting a town PR.

[Umlaut]

Asri, if you have other patterns to point out why are you waiting for someone to ask about them? Let's hear it.

[Umlaut]

I need to reread this game before making any decisions, "luckily" that shouldn't take too long.

[Umlaut]

My tune is a straight bop though

[Umlaut]

This one is pleasantly entertained but not swayed.

I don't understand why you need to be "swayed" to share your observations with the town in lylo. What are you waiting for exactly?

[Umlaut]

Asri what are you even doing

[Umlaut]

Dante and Redff voted Dunnstral

What was your point in saying this? What were you trying to do if not suggest this makes Dunnstral suspect?

[Umlaut]

This really seems like you were called out on a faulty argument, and instead of going "yeah, I guess you're right" or even "no, it's a good argument" you're trying to backpedal from having meant anything at all by it.

[Umlaut]

"Two players who voted for Dunn are both dead"
"Uh, yeah, but one of them was yeeted by the town after quickhammering d1 so how are you supposed to make anything of that"
"WhY aRe YoU dEfEnDiNg ThEm"



I definitely need to spend more time thinking about other players but you are being so ridiculous right now that I can't see past it. I'll manage to do so eventually, we have a lot of time. Right now you are dropping "observations" and then saying you don't want to talk about them which is really, really weird and I want to understand where it's coming from before I move on.

[Umlaut]

V/la until Monday morning but will try to at least have done my reread when I get back.

[Umlaut]

Prodge again, day got away from me, sorry :/ pls yell at me if I don't do the reading tomorrow

[Umlaut]

I actually did try to sort Meg with the question about how they expected red to flip, but I was interpreting it with the assumption he was going to flip red. Which in retrospect is kind of ironic given I was trying to see if she would TMI that she already knew the slot was scum even though I was pretty sure it was scum myself. At the time I thought her answer was possibly suspect but it's fine given that he was actually green.

I could still vote Meg if it comes down to it, I think out of the remaining players she's the one who has never really given me a reason to townread her, but... uh... I still haven't done the reread. I'm sorry, it's really dumb that I can't find the motivation but honestly I feel like Red just threw the game for town and I don't see how I'm supposed to solve now especially given that it seems like I'm a likely miselim myself.

[Umlaut]

I will vote literally anyone else in the game before Dunn, they're the only confident tr I have.

Oh damn I didn't realize how little time was left, need to actually do the reading I've been promising all week

[Umlaut]

Drew is Meg, right?

[Umlaut]

I really want it to be Asri but, like, who could Asri's partner be? No one really makes sense.

[Umlaut]

The scums seem to be Doctor Drew and the bulge.

This is what I was coming around to too, moreso by POE than anything else.

[Umlaut]

Time is short so may as well put this to the test.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Umlaut]

Here for a little bit. I'm not changing votes at this point, scum has had plenty of time to hammer if Drew were town so I'm pretty confident Drew/Bulge is the solve.

Asri, is there anything in particular you were wanting to hear from me?

[Umlaut]

Dunn literally waited until I claimed to fake claim.

If that isn't objectively obv scum then I don't know what is.

I don't get this at all, what is the reasoning here? Why should Dunn have claimed at any particular time before that?

This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely not following.

[Umlaut]

I don't think it's possible to get much from this back-and-forth, Drew and Dunn know one another's alignment so neither one can possibly make an unbiased argument here. Drew's point about "Dunn claimed second" is NAI nonsense and Dunn's point about "Drew voted me after I came up vanilla" is also NAI nonsense.

[Umlaut]

Going to be afk until deadline soon but it's not as if I was ever moving my vote anyway

[Umlaut]

I really did expect to be occupied tonight, I don't make up IRL stuff in games, but that plan fell through at the last minute and I figured, well, I already have an excuse to lurk out the rest of the day...

Anyway, I'm giving Dunn full credit for this, I played like garbage this game but a win's a win.

Also, happy scumday, Drew!

Also also, thanks for running the game, Viz!

[Umlaut]

Also want to say for the record that I always advocate policying quickhammers barring concrete mechanical evidence that they must be town, and would have probably been

more

insistent on launching Red d2 if I weren't toning it down due to knowing that often gets seen as suspicious.