Micro 1081: Burdened By Secrecy GAME OVER

[Five Hargreeves]

Don't think we have to worry about Paragons. Gonna have some trouble. Probably.

Gonna sit back and let things play out for a bit. Might seem shady, but. Know what I'm about. Takes time.

Want me in fast? Tell me what to expect. Assuming you're all hiding style, so. Gonna take that lightly. It'll help though.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Good luck, Paragon. Gonna need it.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Sure. Only care about the third. Don't think you can get that one. Not a challenge. Good luck, right? Just stating.

Last sentence? Well, suppose I might seem rude. Don't mistake me. Terse, not mean. Nice person, me. Gonna work with everyone.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Nah. Just how I am. Never know what someone might do if you let them. Don't make a mistake so quick.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Sure. Not right though. Just guesses. Talking about preferences. "In this case". "You'd rather". Said nothing about it.

Gonna work with everyone. Means I'm gonna work with you, too.

Give it time.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Both.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

From me you should expect okay-ish scum hunting skills. Overall I think I'm pretty average TBH. I want to have a good time ITG. When i'm constructing posts I want to write a lot, but run out of steam quite fast and don't really end up writing much. The game I haven't thought about it much as you can tell from my few posts, but sitting down and thinking about it it's basically a vanilla game with and I think LLD is right they could be considered a town IC. LLD post above reminds me of a game show where there are 3 doors and behind one of them is a car, but in their post behind 2 of them is a car and behind the other one is a tax collector or something menacing. In the rules I don't read anything about a townie becoming a paragon if they are lynched I think that is incorrect because if a townie is lynched and the scum team manage to hide they win iirc. I'm glad people are hiding their playstyle. I think the game can be broken if LLD looks at login information (?) or times that people are usually active. I think that would be a good place to start if I were them. Going back to the 3 door game show It's important to recognize that LLD can help us and they should help us as long as it's in their best interest that's about it. I'm willing to accept their help too.

Mm. Unexpected. Had a pretty specific guess. Got one part.

How about this. How's hunting work? For you, I mean. Tell me about it. Generally only, now. Don't need to get specific. Don't wanna coach scum. Here, I'll start.

I hunt on patterns. Not tells. Not gut. Follow the trails.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Nah. Naturally terse. Don't like wasting words. Don't like big words. Short, sweet, dense.

Playstyle isn't hidden, either. Been real clear. Patterns. Work with everybody. Real nice. Everyone's happy. And then I wagon someone. Nothing personal. Rules of the game.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

Thinking about this now I am okay with flash eliminating someone once everyone checks in. I think it can be a bit better odds. since this game essentially lasts 96 hours??? unsure. it's better to quickly eliminate someone and have the paragons guess, If the paragons are fully committed to a town win.

Don't like this. Turns into one failure for a later, less likely win.

Less likely. Bold claim? Nah. We're working from play. Gonna give them less play to work with for it doing that. Flash elimination? No discussion? Quitter behavior. Best chance for any faction but Mafia? Playing through, we eliminate when we eliminate.

[Five Hargreeves]

Mm. Forgot to sign. That idea, itchy. Had to scratch it.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

No.

First thing. Mafia doesn't post anything relevant after the elimination. Elimination gives all the information. Puts it all into perspective. Everything after? Noise. "WIFOM". Discard. Like twilight.
Second thing. Miseliminating gives less information than correctly eliminating. Maximize the chances by hitting red. Then Paragon's looking for the partner.
Third thing. Paragons don't get special knowledge. Thread's all noise, they're hunting from noise.
Fourth thing. Gotta say: stretching the day? Also bad. Need a strong town leader there.
Final thing. Means the winning path is playing through.

No.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Just realized. Your argument? Almost makes sense. Just, assume the Paragon's choices are random. Well. Even worse. Don't do that. Think LLD is good enough not to.

Better than random is possible. Play it through.

[Five Hargreeves]

Question. You check what eliminated Mafia had to say during their last twilight?

Shouldn't do that. Can't even trust it's untrustworthy.

[Five Hargreeves]

Got me ruffled. Keep scratching the itch. Forgetting my manners.

Listen. Disagree all you want. Still best to play it through. Why? Got too many links in your cause and effect.

Worst case of playing through? Less time to "chat". Well, could always chat while we play, too. Seems like what's happening now.
Best case of playing through? Create enough information to win.

Worst case of fast elimination? Noisy thread, no information. Might as well roll dice.
Best case of fast elimination? Something comes up in the "chat" time that causes a win. Well, could come up playing through too. More ways to pressure in play, probably comes up faster there. Can't pressure in "chat". Well. Paragons can. Lot fewer angles. Seems pretty poor.

We don't lose time either way. Same amount of total time. Game's on a fixed clock.

Play it through.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

The day has no deadline. The guessing phase, during which paragons may guess the scumteam, will last a maximum of 96 hours, at which point no guess will be automatically submitted and the scum team will win.

Mm. Reread the rules. Worse than I thought for fast elimination. See above.

Time's lost on fast elimination. Got an endless day. Guess phase has the fixed clock after.

Don't get any more chat time. Lose play time.

No.

[Five Hargreeves]

Mm. Think that's a no, Klaus. Also.

Would you rather hunt within 5 or 4 assuming we don't hit mafia.

Never have to hunt in 5. Never needed.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Don't think anything. Well, nothing worth saying. Three're not even playing. Yet.

Why do you care?

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Heard of a 60% hit rate. Seen 40%.

1/3's bad. 1/3's also optimistic. Random chance? Don't do that.

Look. Game's nightless. All vanilla. Nightless Expectation Rule applies.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ation_Rule

1 - 2 * 2 / 5 = 0.2. 20%.

-Five.



Pre-Edit:

Tells me more about you. Not defensive. Or aggressive. Big mistake to think. Always nice, me. All smiles.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Sure. Name one opinion on the past few pages.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Not a jerk. Don't read terse as rude. Easy mistake, maybe. But false.

Got any opinions?

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

i think you're very abrasive thus far and i think your attempt to hide your identity through speech is likely main indicative. i think it more likely is townie at this stage because why would town put pressure on them like themself at this point. i mean, there is other stuff that could be main indicative in the game, but idk how much i'd like to talk about what i think about mains is, because like. there is genuine pressure to make me think otherwise, and the less i say on that, the less you can gleam about that the more likely my main guess would be, especially because i would like to aim for that at least once. if not fall back on town win.

Suppose I need to get used to being misread. Terse, not abrasive. Don't like to waste words. But sure.

Thing about that. Not hiding my identity through speech. Well, maybe a side effect. Changing how I think. Different thing.

Another thing. Only upside to flash-wagoning? Keeps Paragons from that win. There's a benefit. Say you're aiming there? Tempting. Not that petty, though. Swear I'm nice.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Klaus needs to be in a hole.

1:4 vs 2:3 - Ive sat around Five often enough to know theres way more to it but the 1 in 4 is way better here.

Also love the sound of ya voice much.

Mm. Forgot you'd know this approach. Sloppy move. Still. Should be fine.

About Klaus. I didn't say a thing. Clean hands.

About you. Read like a book in ten posts. Could be less. Betting on it.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

if scum is limmed d1 and paragons shoot wrong, does the game just continue

My read. Mafia wins. No mechanism for day 2 in the rules.

Point of eliminating? Hit Mafia, Paragons only have to guess the buddy.

Could be wrong.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Think it can be. Think the rules here are odd enough to give it a pass.

Also. Think the Paragons only get to guess mains before elimination.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

personally, i'm not quite sure how to go about this game
usually in games i can just get a meta clear and be on my merry way but if i reveal my main it lets the paragons get one step closer to winning

wait, mod, if paragons guess mains, do the paragons win or does paragons + town win?

If they do so correctly, the Paragons will immediately win and all other players will lose.

oh, okay

welp i thought it was paragons+town but i guess not

FoS:

Vanya

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Site's bugged now. Well, serves me right. No more multi-quote.

Anyway. "EBWOP". Important bits are 89, 91. Not 90. Misclick that I didn't notice.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

It's fake. Read both posts.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Howdya mean Five?

Dunno on fake, maybe lil bit zoomy

Look. Break it down. Gonna hate this. Lot of words coming.

Post 89.

Serious uncertainty. Doesn't know what to do. Fair.
Wants to coast on meta. Says Paragons win if you do that. Okay. True.
Asks if Paragons win with or without town. Fair question.

Post 91.

Thought Paragons won with town. Huh.

Few things about this.



First thing. Take this as true. Face value. Paragons win with town? Probably want to share. Maybe don't draw attention to how the rules say no. Maybe hope you're wrong. Even if you're unsure? Maybe some hope in your post. Unless. You know. Come back to that soon.

Second thing. Okay, why do this? Alignment dependent. Town? Dunno. Seems wrong. Come back to this. Mafia? Innocence. "Don't know the rules". "Town slip". For "towncred". Or? Well. Come back to that.

Third thing. Second reading. Make some assumptions. What's the lie? Uncertainty? Doubt it. Uncertainty's just this game. Coast on meta? Could be. Don't think it says anything. Paragons win with town? Okay, could be a lie. Already went over. "Town slip." Another, or that it? Nope, that's it. Barebones posts.

Coming back around now. No lies, got an agenda? Believed Paragons win with town. Wants to coast on meta. Not sure what to do.

Town? Has to be genuine. No motivation. Weak positioning. Extreme confusion. Prone to buddying. Low investment? Good for Mafia. Bad for town. Still feels off, wording not sharing that way. Wanna win? Think Paragons win with town? Drop the main. Unsure? Talk about wanting. Don't talk about would but you lose. While you thought Paragons win with town.
Mafia? Don't share. Don't win with town? Share, you lose. Just makes sense.

"Town slip". Real misunderstanding. Both. All say Mafia.
What says town?
Nothing.

Would vote. But it's one thing. Work with patterns, not tells. Bad start. Pattern could go either way still. So, FoS.

Hate typing this much. Gonna eat.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Type how I type. Not changing that.

It's FoS. Play through, see what happens.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Ain't a case. Just reasoning.

Case needs more parts.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Game's slow. Nothing to add right now.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Mm. If Paragons are out, not good.

Not sure what to do to prompt action.

-Five.