Micro 1081: Burdened By Secrecy GAME OVER

[Klaus Hargreeves]

VOTE: Lila pitts for not being a hargreeves. I wanna say so much. I think i'll say a lot of nothing to satiate my appetite. I think the only thing we have to worry about is probably the paragon also are we in lylo or mylo? I don't think the paragon gets a vote so it would be lylo correct? I also think this game should be very fun and maybe a bit fast with everyone active. As they say if you want to find scum simply start looking. One thing I like a lot about this game would also be the paragon. feels almost like a gutcheck because we are on some sort of timer as well but we don't know how long we have (96 hours). On average i think we have quite some time since the paragon can guess whenever they want to but also have a time limit so we are in effect also checking them. hmmmmmm can I say something potentially dangerous? I think I am super fairly easy to guess so if the other players can hide their playstyle a bit I would be very grateful if not it's alright. I'm very excited for the game let's have fun everyone.
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[Klaus Hargreeves]

I just realized I'm an idiot. As soon as we lynch we either win or lose so disregard the lylo stuff y'know. Everything else is sort of valid.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

"Lynch" is a word prohibited from use in mafia games by the site rules. Please refrain from using it in the future. Common replacements are elimination, lim or yeet.

Thanks new friend! I'll keep this in mind and update myself on the rules again.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Don't think we have to worry about Paragons. Gonna have some trouble. Probably.

Gonna sit back and let things play out for a bit. Might seem shady, but. Know what I'm about. Takes time.

Want me in fast? Tell me what to expect. Assuming you're all hiding style, so. Gonna take that lightly. It'll help though.

-Five.

I viewed it as the paragon would try and win by themselves as that is what I would undoubtedly due y'know. I was just projecting my thoughts onto them without consent I apologize. I'm okay with you chilling to each their own. I guess? Thinking about it now it is a bit shady. but nothing has happened ITT from reading it...so far. I'm not really "hiding style" FtR. What do you mean BTW when you say what to expect? Like expect from me? or from the game?

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Both.

-Five.

Good luck, Paragon. Gonna need it.

-Five.

you know we're on the same side, conceivably?

I win one of 3 ways

1) If I assist the townies in eliminating a mafia member here, I win as does town.
2) if town fails to find mafia, the townie becomes a paragon with me and then we try to name the 2 scum. If we do this, town and paragons win.

3) the selfish one, if I identify all 5 of you by alt in one guess, I win alone.

Basically I'm a confirmed town IC who is meant to be here to help you all win and you should trust and work with me, but both alignments need to worry about being too obvious about themselves and getting alt guessed by me.

From me you should expect okay-ish scum hunting skills. Overall I think I'm pretty average TBH. I want to have a good time ITG. When i'm constructing posts I want to write a lot, but run out of steam quite fast and don't really end up writing much. The game I haven't thought about it much as you can tell from my few posts, but sitting down and thinking about it it's basically a vanilla game with and I think LLD is right they could be considered a town IC. LLD post above reminds me of a game show where there are 3 doors and behind one of them is a car, but in their post behind 2 of them is a car and behind the other one is a tax collector or something menacing. In the rules I don't read anything about a townie becoming a paragon if they are lynched I think that is incorrect because if a townie is lynched and the scum team manage to hide they win iirc. I'm glad people are hiding their playstyle. I think the game can be broken if LLD looks at login information (?) or times that people are usually active. I think that would be a good place to start if I were them. Going back to the 3 door game show It's important to recognize that LLD can help us and they should help us as long as it's in their best interest that's about it. I'm willing to accept their help too.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

I asked the mods if those were the three scenarios and they confirmed it for me.

Town and Paragons win if Mafia is eliminated

Town and Paragons win if Paragons identify both mafia after a town elimination.

Paragons win if Paragons can identify all 5 Alts to their player slots.

I'll believe you new fren! Thank you for clarifying I appreciate it.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

From me you should expect okay-ish scum hunting skills. Overall I think I'm pretty average TBH. I want to have a good time ITG. When i'm constructing posts I want to write a lot, but run out of steam quite fast and don't really end up writing much. The game I haven't thought about it much as you can tell from my few posts, but sitting down and thinking about it it's basically a vanilla game with and I think LLD is right they could be considered a town IC. LLD post above reminds me of a game show where there are 3 doors and behind one of them is a car, but in their post behind 2 of them is a car and behind the other one is a tax collector or something menacing. In the rules I don't read anything about a townie becoming a paragon if they are lynched I think that is incorrect because if a townie is lynched and the scum team manage to hide they win iirc. I'm glad people are hiding their playstyle. I think the game can be broken if LLD looks at login information (?) or times that people are usually active. I think that would be a good place to start if I were them. Going back to the 3 door game show It's important to recognize that LLD can help us and they should help us as long as it's in their best interest that's about it. I'm willing to accept their help too.

Mm. Unexpected. Had a pretty specific guess. Got one part.

How about this. How's hunting work? For you, I mean. Tell me about it. Generally only, now. Don't need to get specific. Don't wanna coach scum. Here, I'll start.

I hunt on patterns. Not tells. Not gut. Follow the trails.

-Five.

Hunting for me is very straight forward and boring. Basically I look at inconsistencies and motivations. Saying x but voting y. Talking about doing x but voting y. Things like that on day 1 on day 2 it changes to examining wagons, but I don't think that matters here. General inconsistencies as well. It's difficult to examine you for example as you are hiding your play style and saying as little as possible. It's alright to be specific about how you hunt; people's egos don't allow them to take in information and change how they would act externally because that (their ego) is who they are essentially, so it's okay to be as specific as you want. Mafia generally won't change anything that they do even if there are psychopaths on the mafia team ego won't allow it imo.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

@mod I'm so sorry about the L word I'll make a better effort to not use it

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

Thinking about this now I am okay with flash eliminating someone once everyone checks in. I think it can be a bit better odds. since this game essentially lasts 96 hours??? unsure. it's better to quickly eliminate someone and have the paragons guess, If the paragons are fully committed to a town win.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

Thinking about this now I am okay with flash eliminating someone once everyone checks in. I think it can be a bit better odds. since this game essentially lasts 96 hours??? unsure. it's better to quickly eliminate someone and have the paragons guess, If the paragons are fully committed to a town win.

Don't like this. Turns into one failure for a later, less likely win.

Less likely. Bold claim? Nah. We're working from play. Gonna give them less play to work with for it doing that. Flash elimination? No discussion? Quitter behavior. Best chance for any faction but Mafia? Playing through, we eliminate when we eliminate.

That's fine but objectively I'm right if and only if paragons decide to win with town. if we flash eliminate after everyone checks and if and only if they flip town that means paragons have a smaller pool to guess from and we have a longer time to "chat".

[Klaus Hargreeves]

No.

First thing. Mafia doesn't post anything relevant after the elimination. Elimination gives all the information. Puts it all into perspective. Everything after? Noise. "WIFOM". Discard. Like twilight.
Second thing. Miseliminating gives less information than correctly eliminating. Maximize the chances by hitting red. Then Paragon's looking for the partner.
Third thing. Paragons don't get special knowledge. Thread's all noise, they're hunting from noise.
Fourth thing. Gotta say: stretching the day? Also bad. Need a strong town leader there.
Final thing. Means the winning path is playing through.

No.

-Five.

you're assuming a lot after the flip. I'm not assuming anything. I'd argue more but I just disagree with your assessment.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Got me ruffled. Keep scratching the itch. Forgetting my manners.

Listen. Disagree all you want. Still best to play it through. Why? Got too many links in your cause and effect.

Worst case of playing through? Less time to "chat". Well, could always chat while we play, too. Seems like what's happening now.
Best case of playing through? Create enough information to win.

Worst case of fast elimination? Noisy thread, no information. Might as well roll dice.
Best case of fast elimination? Something comes up in the "chat" time that causes a win. Well, could come up playing through too. More ways to pressure in play, probably comes up faster there. Can't pressure in "chat". Well. Paragons can. Lot fewer angles. Seems pretty poor.

We don't lose time either way. Same amount of total time. Game's on a fixed clock.

Play it through.

-Five.

The day has no deadline. The guessing phase, during which paragons may guess the scumteam, will last a maximum of 96 hours, at which point no guess will be automatically submitted and the scum team will win.

Mm. Reread the rules. Worse than I thought for fast elimination. See above.

Time's lost on fast elimination. Got an endless day. Guess phase has the fixed clock after.

Don't get any more chat time. Lose play time.

No.

to me it isn't about rolling dice it's about creating a smaller subset of data to work with. Would you rather hunt within 5 or 4 assuming we don't hit mafia. I'm okay with a 96 hour limit because no matter what at the end of the day you gotta put butter in the pan and start cooking. I think this is mostly a moot point though I doubt anyone would follow it. In fact I'm willing to make a side wager that people who are vehemently against my idea are probably more likely to be mafia as the illusion of control is taken away from them imo. It seems like your only legetimate point is let's play through and see what happens I'm cool with that baby. In fact people call me coolio, rip to him.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Mm. Think that's a no, Klaus. Also.

Would you rather hunt within 5 or 4 assuming we don't hit mafia.

Never have to hunt in 5. Never needed.

-Five.

fair enough. Do you think I'm a villager?

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Don't think anything. Well, nothing worth saying. Three're not even playing. Yet.

Why do you care?

-Five.

I just thought it would be funny if you scumread the only other person playing with you lol. Also if you did town read me back to the numbers I know I'm town. I think you're probably might be town. I'm happy to eliminate within the other 3 that's essentially a 33.33% chance of hitting scum. those are really good odds that's basically a really good scum hunter. I haven't read the most recent stats on scumhunting on the site, but I think 33.33 chance is a really good number. If we're somehow wrong we have 3 paragons that are on the clock to find the last two scum who are probably the last two besides us. The more and more I say this plan that will never happen the more and more I really like it.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Don't think anything. Well, nothing worth saying. Three're not even playing. Yet.

Why do you care?

-Five.

were you being defensive? with the "why do you care". It felt quite aggressive. that is so interesting. Maybe I'm just misreading it. But maybe I'm not crazy why do I care what the only other person who is playing the game thinks of my alignment? idk. igmeoy.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Five is kind of a jerk. That's kind of town indicative.

Allison and Vanya need to get in here.

I don't think personality is necessarily alignment indicative. That's just me though, y'know? I think this post is very non answery non posty sort of nothing ventured nothing gained didn't really say anything. Also are you throwing stones for doing the exact same thing that allison and vanya are doing? i.e. they are absent and you were absent.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

I will be high and I am open to interacting with anyone while high. I cannot promise anything of value out of what I say, but it might be helpful to someone ig.

Have you done a lot of setup speculation? I am not very good at it. what do you think of this setup any ideas on how to break it?

[Klaus Hargreeves]

ive only really done main speculation. its mountainious vanilla, and a elo situation. like the only advice i would have is my normal scum advice? like a little more finely tuned method of how to play scum in this situation in my eyes, but like, there's no reason to ever tell you. like, why would i tell you, how to play as scum? i know there's the argument of "well it'd help" - yes. it would. but also i think it'd hurt more for a pro-town win condition if i did so.

scum advise is useless to me I suck as scum anyways. Plus I wouldn't comprehend it anyways like I don't comprehend the nightless thing that five was talking about so I just didn't say anything. What do you think of a flash elimination?

@mod do paragons have to be unanimous when deciding who is who with the alts and mains?

[Klaus Hargreeves]

That's going to be a huge nevermind on the flash elimination.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

i thought about it and i still think its bad. too many bad options can result out of it imo.

since nothing is happening and only about two people are playing this game rn, pray tell.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Klaus needs to be in a hole.

1:4 vs 2:3 - Ive sat around Five often enough to know theres way more to it but the 1 in 4 is way better here.

Also love the sound of ya voice much.

I do love it a lot!! just to be clear is this how you feel or is this a read? if it's how you feel then that's fine. the 1 in 4 is advocating for what I was advocating for, five wants to play out the game just to be clear unless I'm misunderstanding the cut of your jib. In my perfect world if and only if the paragons are town aligned then we would all come together town read someone and then shoot someone.

huh. i'm going to have to reread the rules. 3 votes is a lim, right? klaus, you might want to remove that RVS vote in case someone quickhammers.

Do you think lila is town? do you have information I don't? how long do you think before no one hammers that makes lila more likely to be scum? on average do you believe town are more active than scum? between me and five who do you think is town? can we both be town?

i have little to no idea how this works. but i'm assuming it's, during day we vote, during night paragons get to shoot, and if they hit wrong then scum wins?
if scum is limmed d1 and paragons shoot wrong, does the game just continue

1. the day is endless so it never ends
2. once we vote the game is not over and people can keep posting.
3. paragons have 96 hours to choose who is mafia or to connect the alts with the mains.

@five do you think someone not understanding the setup and saying out loud they don't understand it is alignment indicative?

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Think it can be. Think the rules here are odd enough to give it a pass.

Also.

Think the Paragons only get to guess mains before elimination

.

-Five.

yes!

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Five is kind of a jerk. That's kind of town indicative.

Allison and Vanya need to get in here.

I don't think personality is necessarily alignment indicative. That's just me though, y'know? I think this post is very non answery non posty sort of nothing ventured nothing gained didn't really say anything. Also are you throwing stones for doing the exact same thing that allison and vanya are doing? i.e. they are absent and you were absent.

I've seen harsher players lighten up once they get a mafia role, I'm just going off of what I have. And I've at least made a post. And I'm trying to PoE this game and it's hard when I'm missing pieces.

i thought about it and i still think its bad. too many bad options can result out of it imo.

since nothing is happening and only about two people are playing this game rn, pray tell.

Setup spec is boring, this is pretty plain and there isn't a lot for us to try to break it, and the Paragons don't seem to be extensively trying to alt hunt. Idk, let's just find scum.

I was tempted to ChatGPT all my words to get away from identity hunting but figured that would be cheating.

Also I'm town so the longer this goes on, the more mafia have to act, and that gets tiresome for them, but I can be honest till the end of time, no sweat on my back.

fair enough to your first point as to your second point UNVOTE: mostly just idk rings true to me. everything about it just felt natural. we'll see though.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

I'm okay with lynching vanya or allison...

[Klaus Hargreeves]

I'm okay with lynching vanya or allison...

"Lynch" is a word prohibited from use in mafia games by the site rules. Please refrain from using it in the future. Common replacements are elimination, lim or yeet.

One last reminder: Follow all site rules.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Big sorry. thank you for one more chance new friend.

I really am trying my best I will try even harder. pinky promise. My cult is going to be so pissed...

[Klaus Hargreeves]

i'm also really sorry but i dont get what you mean- the choppy sentences are hard to comprehend

agreed I did not really understand it either.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

are we all townreading five? or is that just the vibe I'm getting?

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Game's slow. Nothing to add right now.

-Five.

game is becoming glacial prod dodge.