Micro 1081: Burdened By Secrecy GAME OVER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I asked the mods if those were the three scenarios and they confirmed it for me.

Town and Paragons win if Mafia is eliminated

Town and Paragons win if Paragons identify both mafia after a town elimination.

Paragons win if Paragons can identify all 5 Alts to their player slots.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

[Five Hargreeves]

From me you should expect okay-ish scum hunting skills. Overall I think I'm pretty average TBH. I want to have a good time ITG. When i'm constructing posts I want to write a lot, but run out of steam quite fast and don't really end up writing much. The game I haven't thought about it much as you can tell from my few posts, but sitting down and thinking about it it's basically a vanilla game with and I think LLD is right they could be considered a town IC. LLD post above reminds me of a game show where there are 3 doors and behind one of them is a car, but in their post behind 2 of them is a car and behind the other one is a tax collector or something menacing. In the rules I don't read anything about a townie becoming a paragon if they are lynched I think that is incorrect because if a townie is lynched and the scum team manage to hide they win iirc. I'm glad people are hiding their playstyle. I think the game can be broken if LLD looks at login information (?) or times that people are usually active. I think that would be a good place to start if I were them. Going back to the 3 door game show It's important to recognize that LLD can help us and they should help us as long as it's in their best interest that's about it. I'm willing to accept their help too.

Mm. Unexpected. Had a pretty specific guess. Got one part.

How about this. How's hunting work? For you, I mean. Tell me about it. Generally only, now. Don't need to get specific. Don't wanna coach scum. Here, I'll start.

I hunt on patterns. Not tells. Not gut. Follow the trails.

-Five.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

I asked the mods if those were the three scenarios and they confirmed it for me.

Town and Paragons win if Mafia is eliminated

Town and Paragons win if Paragons identify both mafia after a town elimination.

Paragons win if Paragons can identify all 5 Alts to their player slots.

I'll believe you new fren! Thank you for clarifying I appreciate it.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

From me you should expect okay-ish scum hunting skills. Overall I think I'm pretty average TBH. I want to have a good time ITG. When i'm constructing posts I want to write a lot, but run out of steam quite fast and don't really end up writing much. The game I haven't thought about it much as you can tell from my few posts, but sitting down and thinking about it it's basically a vanilla game with and I think LLD is right they could be considered a town IC. LLD post above reminds me of a game show where there are 3 doors and behind one of them is a car, but in their post behind 2 of them is a car and behind the other one is a tax collector or something menacing. In the rules I don't read anything about a townie becoming a paragon if they are lynched I think that is incorrect because if a townie is lynched and the scum team manage to hide they win iirc. I'm glad people are hiding their playstyle. I think the game can be broken if LLD looks at login information (?) or times that people are usually active. I think that would be a good place to start if I were them. Going back to the 3 door game show It's important to recognize that LLD can help us and they should help us as long as it's in their best interest that's about it. I'm willing to accept their help too.

Mm. Unexpected. Had a pretty specific guess. Got one part.

How about this. How's hunting work? For you, I mean. Tell me about it. Generally only, now. Don't need to get specific. Don't wanna coach scum. Here, I'll start.

I hunt on patterns. Not tells. Not gut. Follow the trails.

-Five.

Hunting for me is very straight forward and boring. Basically I look at inconsistencies and motivations. Saying x but voting y. Talking about doing x but voting y. Things like that on day 1 on day 2 it changes to examining wagons, but I don't think that matters here. General inconsistencies as well. It's difficult to examine you for example as you are hiding your play style and saying as little as possible. It's alright to be specific about how you hunt; people's egos don't allow them to take in information and change how they would act externally because that (their ego) is who they are essentially, so it's okay to be as specific as you want. Mafia generally won't change anything that they do even if there are psychopaths on the mafia team ego won't allow it imo.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

@mod I'm so sorry about the L word I'll make a better effort to not use it

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

Thinking about this now I am okay with flash eliminating someone once everyone checks in. I think it can be a bit better odds. since this game essentially lasts 96 hours??? unsure. it's better to quickly eliminate someone and have the paragons guess, If the paragons are fully committed to a town win.

[Five Hargreeves]

Nah. Naturally terse. Don't like wasting words. Don't like big words. Short, sweet, dense.

Playstyle isn't hidden, either. Been real clear. Patterns. Work with everybody. Real nice. Everyone's happy. And then I wagon someone. Nothing personal. Rules of the game.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

Thinking about this now I am okay with flash eliminating someone once everyone checks in. I think it can be a bit better odds. since this game essentially lasts 96 hours??? unsure. it's better to quickly eliminate someone and have the paragons guess, If the paragons are fully committed to a town win.

Don't like this. Turns into one failure for a later, less likely win.

Less likely. Bold claim? Nah. We're working from play. Gonna give them less play to work with for it doing that. Flash elimination? No discussion? Quitter behavior. Best chance for any faction but Mafia? Playing through, we eliminate when we eliminate.

[Five Hargreeves]

Mm. Forgot to sign. That idea, itchy. Had to scratch it.

-Five.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Additionally, town/mafia/paragons can continue to discuss in this thread post elimination while Paragons make their 2 mafia choice.

Thinking about this now I am okay with flash eliminating someone once everyone checks in. I think it can be a bit better odds. since this game essentially lasts 96 hours??? unsure. it's better to quickly eliminate someone and have the paragons guess, If the paragons are fully committed to a town win.

Don't like this. Turns into one failure for a later, less likely win.

Less likely. Bold claim? Nah. We're working from play. Gonna give them less play to work with for it doing that. Flash elimination? No discussion? Quitter behavior. Best chance for any faction but Mafia? Playing through, we eliminate when we eliminate.

That's fine but objectively I'm right if and only if paragons decide to win with town. if we flash eliminate after everyone checks and if and only if they flip town that means paragons have a smaller pool to guess from and we have a longer time to "chat".

[Five Hargreeves]

No.

First thing. Mafia doesn't post anything relevant after the elimination. Elimination gives all the information. Puts it all into perspective. Everything after? Noise. "WIFOM". Discard. Like twilight.
Second thing. Miseliminating gives less information than correctly eliminating. Maximize the chances by hitting red. Then Paragon's looking for the partner.
Third thing. Paragons don't get special knowledge. Thread's all noise, they're hunting from noise.
Fourth thing. Gotta say: stretching the day? Also bad. Need a strong town leader there.
Final thing. Means the winning path is playing through.

No.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

Just realized. Your argument? Almost makes sense. Just, assume the Paragon's choices are random. Well. Even worse. Don't do that. Think LLD is good enough not to.

Better than random is possible. Play it through.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

No.

First thing. Mafia doesn't post anything relevant after the elimination. Elimination gives all the information. Puts it all into perspective. Everything after? Noise. "WIFOM". Discard. Like twilight.
Second thing. Miseliminating gives less information than correctly eliminating. Maximize the chances by hitting red. Then Paragon's looking for the partner.
Third thing. Paragons don't get special knowledge. Thread's all noise, they're hunting from noise.
Fourth thing. Gotta say: stretching the day? Also bad. Need a strong town leader there.
Final thing. Means the winning path is playing through.

No.

-Five.

you're assuming a lot after the flip. I'm not assuming anything. I'd argue more but I just disagree with your assessment.

[Five Hargreeves]

Question. You check what eliminated Mafia had to say during their last twilight?

Shouldn't do that. Can't even trust it's untrustworthy.

[Five Hargreeves]

Got me ruffled. Keep scratching the itch. Forgetting my manners.

Listen. Disagree all you want. Still best to play it through. Why? Got too many links in your cause and effect.

Worst case of playing through? Less time to "chat". Well, could always chat while we play, too. Seems like what's happening now.
Best case of playing through? Create enough information to win.

Worst case of fast elimination? Noisy thread, no information. Might as well roll dice.
Best case of fast elimination? Something comes up in the "chat" time that causes a win. Well, could come up playing through too. More ways to pressure in play, probably comes up faster there. Can't pressure in "chat". Well. Paragons can. Lot fewer angles. Seems pretty poor.

We don't lose time either way. Same amount of total time. Game's on a fixed clock.

Play it through.

-Five.

[Five Hargreeves]

The day has no deadline. The guessing phase, during which paragons may guess the scumteam, will last a maximum of 96 hours, at which point no guess will be automatically submitted and the scum team will win.

Mm. Reread the rules. Worse than I thought for fast elimination. See above.

Time's lost on fast elimination. Got an endless day. Guess phase has the fixed clock after.

Don't get any more chat time. Lose play time.

No.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Got me ruffled. Keep scratching the itch. Forgetting my manners.

Listen. Disagree all you want. Still best to play it through. Why? Got too many links in your cause and effect.

Worst case of playing through? Less time to "chat". Well, could always chat while we play, too. Seems like what's happening now.
Best case of playing through? Create enough information to win.

Worst case of fast elimination? Noisy thread, no information. Might as well roll dice.
Best case of fast elimination? Something comes up in the "chat" time that causes a win. Well, could come up playing through too. More ways to pressure in play, probably comes up faster there. Can't pressure in "chat". Well. Paragons can. Lot fewer angles. Seems pretty poor.

We don't lose time either way. Same amount of total time. Game's on a fixed clock.

Play it through.

-Five.

The day has no deadline. The guessing phase, during which paragons may guess the scumteam, will last a maximum of 96 hours, at which point no guess will be automatically submitted and the scum team will win.

Mm. Reread the rules. Worse than I thought for fast elimination. See above.

Time's lost on fast elimination. Got an endless day. Guess phase has the fixed clock after.

Don't get any more chat time. Lose play time.

No.

to me it isn't about rolling dice it's about creating a smaller subset of data to work with. Would you rather hunt within 5 or 4 assuming we don't hit mafia. I'm okay with a 96 hour limit because no matter what at the end of the day you gotta put butter in the pan and start cooking. I think this is mostly a moot point though I doubt anyone would follow it. In fact I'm willing to make a side wager that people who are vehemently against my idea are probably more likely to be mafia as the illusion of control is taken away from them imo. It seems like your only legetimate point is let's play through and see what happens I'm cool with that baby. In fact people call me coolio, rip to him.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll just say this once.

If any player quick hammers someone instead of allowing this game to progress, I will select them as mafia as part of the final guess.

As a result, that player, if town, will lose.

So townies you should be very very very interested in a nice long game giving me lots of info and trying to find scum. It's very possible we win by just killing q scum today. That's great! But we should play to maximize our win odds.

[Five Hargreeves]

Mm. Think that's a no, Klaus. Also.

Would you rather hunt within 5 or 4 assuming we don't hit mafia.

Never have to hunt in 5. Never needed.

-Five.

[Jingle]

Korina was late to the party, but that's okay. They've joined us as an additional Paragon!

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Mm. Think that's a no, Klaus. Also.

Would you rather hunt within 5 or 4 assuming we don't hit mafia.

Never have to hunt in 5. Never needed.

-Five.

fair enough. Do you think I'm a villager?

[Five Hargreeves]

Don't think anything. Well, nothing worth saying. Three're not even playing. Yet.

Why do you care?

-Five.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Don't think anything. Well, nothing worth saying. Three're not even playing. Yet.

Why do you care?

-Five.

I just thought it would be funny if you scumread the only other person playing with you lol. Also if you did town read me back to the numbers I know I'm town. I think you're probably might be town. I'm happy to eliminate within the other 3 that's essentially a 33.33% chance of hitting scum. those are really good odds that's basically a really good scum hunter. I haven't read the most recent stats on scumhunting on the site, but I think 33.33 chance is a really good number. If we're somehow wrong we have 3 paragons that are on the clock to find the last two scum who are probably the last two besides us. The more and more I say this plan that will never happen the more and more I really like it.

[Klaus Hargreeves]

Don't think anything. Well, nothing worth saying. Three're not even playing. Yet.

Why do you care?

-Five.

were you being defensive? with the "why do you care". It felt quite aggressive. that is so interesting. Maybe I'm just misreading it. But maybe I'm not crazy why do I care what the only other person who is playing the game thinks of my alignment? idk. igmeoy.