Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[implosion]

I am starting to buy that sheep could be scum. Feels like he's been left behind in the gamestate. I'm also open to hearing what Aisa has to say about Aureal.

I think the townreads I feel best about in this exact moment are Aisa, Menalque, then Dunnstral, followed by Ceph and Aureal and then probably still sheep. Leaving fire/skitter/egix (which is very much Not The Scumteam lol) and the vacant Andantemeg slot which I guess I still think is town but golly it'd be nice to have someone piloting the slot.

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 2.5

Until 1975, the standard PSA (Personal Space Allowance) had always been fixed at a comfortable, civilised 20 inch zone around each citizen. The government suddenly amended this, however, citing terrorism and a rising population as reasons to cut personal space along with other social benefits and civil liberties.

The PSA was more than merely reduced: The new bodily zone into which representatives of the state (and even some commercial organisations) were now free to pass was amended to minus 5.2 inches. Naturally, this made human bodies “semi-permeable”, legally speaking, and for many people only the depths of their intestines remained private.

Police, security and social services enthusiastically exploited the new laws, as did the health service which randomly pilfered internal organs from unsuspecting citizens, claiming quite lawfully that they were found in “communal public places”. The nervous public caught on and by 1977 there were self-help groups springing up all over Scarfolk which helped citizens become as obese as possible in an effort to protect their innermost parts from state interference and even commercial exploitation.

---

fireisredsir (4):

Dunnstral, Cephrir, skitter30, Menalque

skitter30 (2):

Egix96, fireisredsir

Dunnstral (1):

Aureal

Aisa (1):

sheepsaysmeep

Not voting (3):

implosion, MegAzumarill, Aisa

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-13 14:00:00)

Notes:

• Still seeking a replacement for MegAzumarill.

[fireisredsir]

ill reread sheep i guess, cause i actually mostly agree aside from that

[Aureal]

fire/skitter/egix (which is very much Not The Scumteam lol)

Totally didn't have something like that team in the back of my head for like an hour yesterday.

>_>

Why is implosion so confusing?

[Dunnstral]

I was wondering who you took issue with and what the silly easy reason is. I see 1 person who commented on the double replacement thing (cephrir) and you took that and ran with it and are trying to paint the picture that the only reason they are being voted is because of that.

I am absolutely not doing that, I'm noting the increased pressure to flip the slot since the new replacement. You can't tell me that 1136 is not trying to say the slot is scum because of the replacement. It is absolutely doing so. And implosion agrees with that in 1197. That's not saying that those people don't have other reasons- do I really need to list everyone's reasoning for their scumread in every post in order to take issue with one of them??

That said, I'm pondering the dynamics here some more since the Menalque argument. Menalque certainly comes off even townier now, and I'm getting wary of fire. Except, the nagging thought about how focused fire was on Menalque. If fire is scum, why is he focusing on arguing with Mena like he did rather than trying to more broadly push back and get people off him? Town fire would more likely want to sort Menalque than scum fire, right?

Pedit: is fire reading my posts before I post them, lol

That should be 1138, not 1136, didn't double-check that post number, oops.

Yeah and that is just Cephrir

[fireisredsir]

iyam

theres scum in the recent pivot to dunnstral, even if enchant is town lol

because enchant seems perceptibly the objectively optimal lim today. via consensus reads + theyre not doing legit stuff

like Even if dunn is scummy and even if dunn is wolf lol, enchant should be resolved

the movement around is such a strange show-y response to enchant not being villagery

i am pretty weak for in the moment gamestate reads like this especially when i agree with them (or felt the same at the time of it being posted)

ig they're fakeable but this one still feels town to me

im less convinced by the early game than i was the first time around though

[fireisredsir]

read through some sheep scum game isos and feeling a lot less confident in that read

i think his style of talking is something i naturally tend to townread but he replicates it well enough as scum

[fireisredsir]

id prob hero solve it at skitter/aureal/sheep at this exact moment tbh

implosion i haven't been feeling scum vibes as much ever since being in real time with him, which i thought could end up happening

egix is another possibility i guess but i dunno, it just doesn't feel right to me

[sheepsaysmeep]

I started rly reading. I am maybe at page 40 but have also been skimming recent pages


I now feel worse about andante. I actually read andante's dunn wolfcase and I think it's fairly wolfy of andante. she quotes literally almost every single post of dunnstral and says only negative things, no concessions, and it was just glaring to me how unnatural it was. it poked me a little lol when I think implosion was like "I just dont get andante this game" and I was like hm maybe it's just wolfy? in my past experience with andante I disagreed with lots of her reads, but her thought processes did make sense to me and that's how I found her as town, and here there's some stuff im genuinely like I just dont see how that could be thought. obviously not much point to press this today without anyone in the slot lol

I rly like CSF again lol. it's nothing unfakeable but all her thoughts just hit me like wow that was good. this time it was 850, basically whole thing. I feel less like I want to press egix atm.

I reflected about Ceph and think his d1 is legit mildly villager. he cares so little about how he's perceived I think. like implosion said this about skitter, where he thought skitter wouldve explained herself when she put drew's slot at scum suddenly, and I think that applies ceph's d1 lol. no need to explain himself with much of his own reasons just "pummel this guy lol". funnily I found STD town for a similar line of thought in a recent game

I think menal's thing was villagery now. this is especially with context from his wall from today. mainly that he's trying this for the first time. like when he started doing his questions and reaction testing and stuff, he was boxing himself into needing to be able to come up with a palatable end product, and I dont think he wouldve done that as wolf trying this for the first time.

I am interested in the fire wagon still sticking out like that so close to the deadline- like I dont have a say to question it because I havent really read about it at all lol, but my instinct/gut is mildly against the lim from his posting. first it was like this catch-up could totally be wolf but I really like the way he seems to be engaging with / questioning stuff and I am somewhat pocketed by his read process on me, I think his townread was a good read for the right stuff and his progression on me tonight is something I commonly experience. im mainly curious to look later at how people pushing before the sub have taken into account fire posting

I am like once again thinking aisa is wolf; mildly skeptical of skitter. want to talk about these sometime later idk.

I suppose I should be focusing on looking into the viable options for today lmao 3 days is much closer than I had been noticing I’m sorry. pls forgive any weird writing in this post I’m phone-typing some with night contact lenses in

[sheepsaysmeep]

Idk lol

I think fire is posting almost like wolf!me lmao my gut screams wolf

but I think some aspects of their posting are just. Objectively villagery on paper lol

and thus I feel really weird about the state of the wagons

is my surface takeaway prior to understanding much

[Menalque]

Idk lol

I think fire is posting almost like wolf!me lmao my gut screams wolf

but I think some aspects of their posting are just. Objectively villagery on paper lol

and thus I feel really weird about the state of the wagons

is my surface takeaway prior to understanding much

Such as?

[Menalque]

And I read the post before, I mean I want you to cite the exact posts where fire is being objectively villagery

[Egix96]

Incidentally I think “get there eventually” is a pretty dangerous notion here. All it takes is mislim today + extra kill on town tonight + 3 person scumteam and we’re in MELO tomorrow. I should probably really want to get a scum today

I was about to be like bruh I still find aisa so scummy but this is a really village post it made me feel something

Weird. I thought that that Aisa post was NAI, personally.

[Egix96]

Vote Count 2.5

Until 1975, the standard PSA (Personal Space Allowance) had always been fixed at a comfortable, civilised 20 inch zone around each citizen. The government suddenly amended this, however, citing terrorism and a rising population as reasons to cut personal space along with other social benefits and civil liberties.

The PSA was more than merely reduced: The new bodily zone into which representatives of the state (and even some commercial organisations) were now free to pass was amended to minus 5.2 inches. Naturally, this made human bodies “semi-permeable”, legally speaking, and for many people only the depths of their intestines remained private.

Police, security and social services enthusiastically exploited the new laws, as did the health service which randomly pilfered internal organs from unsuspecting citizens, claiming quite lawfully that they were found in “communal public places”. The nervous public caught on and by 1977 there were self-help groups springing up all over Scarfolk which helped citizens become as obese as possible in an effort to protect their innermost parts from state interference and even commercial exploitation.

---

fireisredsir (4):

Dunnstral, Cephrir, skitter30, Menalque

Dunnstral (1):

Aureal

Aisa (1):

sheepsaysmeep

skitter30 (1):

fireisredsir

Not voting (4):

implosion, MegAzumarill, Egix96, Aisa

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-13 14:00:00)

Notes:

• Still seeking a replacement for MegAzumarill.

@Mod

I voted skitter in 1215.

[Umlaut]

Merlyn replaces MegAzumarill.

---

@Mod

I voted skitter in 1215.

Fixed!

[Aisa]

Ok, the promised post on Aureal

Yesterday I tried to meta her. Ignoring anything from 2007 or earlier (lol), I found one game where she was scum, but annoyingly it was multiball: viewtopic.php?t=90809
I spent some time trying to decide if this game had any differences with her towngame and if it was even a good idea to try to meta her from a multiball game and just really confused myself.

A general reflection from her ISO in that game is: I was generally impressed by her fake spew. This is obviously a lot easier for scum in multiball, but still... she seems pretty comfortable talking about several different topics. She talks about the gamestate, mech, her approach to the game, gives analysis, she jokes around... after seeing this, I wouldn't be shocked if she were able to do this as scum in a non-multiball game, too.

I think rn that's the main thing that makes me doubtful. It's like when you start reading her posts thinking that she's scum it's easy to see scumminess there.

Anyway, let's take a look at some of her ISO in this game:

Spoiler:

I'm just getting to page 30 and I'm tired so I don't know if I'll get all caught up tonight. For the moment here's where that puts me.

I'm thinking Aisa town, the weird vote reaction test on my slot doesn't make sense coming from scum. And her sudden unprompted turnabout on Andante, why would scum do that? Feels a lot like I do about Andante, lol. One moment you're like ok Andante town then just suddenly such doubt because she's so volatile. I thought Andante town for a while too (I peeked at this game a few days back when the slot was getting replaced and read her ISO) but I'm not positive, especially after the weird question about Invis and since she didn't get shot.

I feel fairly good about skitter. Her early reads did not mesh with mine well, and I recall her having a pretty opposite take on the game when I played a newbie with her before too so that kinda lines up. Plus her thought that Menalque could be Enchant's partner is the same way she was thinking regarding a similar situation there.

Menalque I was worried about for a bit since I saw nothing for quite a while, but I realized he was vla and waited to see if he became active, and he did. I hear he has a pretty anemic scum game so he's seeming fine now.

I'm watching implosion be a clear driver of the wagon on Enchant and going "scum wouldn't be

that

brazen... Right?" So I'm not like totally sold on implosion, it is kinda weird that there's apparently no counterwagoning, but probably not a Mafia slot?

Slots I'm most concerned about probably Dunnstral (all he's done is complain that Alianna's reads were against low activity slots), CSF (haven't seen much analysis or activity there), Alianna (kinda vanished but probably for non AI reasons), Cephrir (complaining about being bored and waving the Enchant wagon onward are all I really recall here). And I guess sheep falls more into the crowd that needs careful watching still because they're active but I'm just not really getting anything to townread.

When I read this line by line I'm not sure I agree with much of the reasoning.
- Re: skitter, I find that some of the hardest slots to read for me are ones that have a very different playstyle from mine. If I think someone has a similar playstyle I can fall back on "are they being reasonable?" as a way to read them. And when I read something I disagree with, my first reaction is to wonder if it's a personality difference or if they're scum. So I find it interesting that she's having a reaction of certainty. ...Where by "interesting" I mean I question if it's real.
- The reads on Mena and implosion are both kind of hedgy.

Spoiler:

Page 36. Wow. Lol.

I liked CSF's coming for Dunnstral, that was a pretty good point that it's weird to apparently randomly look at the activity overview in order to shade someone's reads.

Then when a counterwagon is actually threatening Dunn, sheep starts acting like Enchant is a done deal, don't look elsewhere, gotta do this. I do not like this.

Pretty sad that the last votes on Enchant are town though. Could consider Menalque there as I think someone suggested, but I still think he's town, even more than before. Just wrong town. That's a silly town gambit, not a scum one.

I think CSF's point about Dunnstral checking the activity overview is kinda 50/50. As fellow activity overview enjoyer, I vibe with the idea that Dunn can check the activity overview whenever he wants, please and thank you.
I'm not sure where the confidence that Menalque's gambit is a town gambit is coming from / I don't find this an obvious conclusion.

Ok I'm gonna skip a bit ahead to some of the highlights

Spoiler:

So Ceph, if the double-replacement seriously affects your attitude towards a slot, what are you going to think if Andante/Meg becomes someone else too?

Why does it matter for one slot but not the other?

Yes, but also there are certain regions of my brain that are not very good at remembering that, so it all remains to be seen!

...town post?

Why does it matter for one slot but not the other?

Not to answer in Ceph's stead but as someone who would have given the same answers to those questions so far as Ceph, it matters for one slot but not the other because I townread the Andante slot and scumread the Alianna slot. If a slot I already townread gets replaced twice my gut reaction is "oh okay sure whatever". If a slot I scumread, and then got replaced and i scumread the replacement (note: i didn't have any read on deltabreedy's posting but it didn't assuage the alianna scumread), and then that slot gets replaced again, then well my gut emotional reaction would be "fuck that, this slot is scum, I'm not putting in the effort to read a

third

person when i already scumread the first two"

With all that said, I do have that reaction toward fire a bit. I'm happy to interact with fire directly at some point as they say they want, it's probably valuable to do so regardless of the slot's alignment. Right now my feelings are that I'm still okay just limming fire unless fire becomes like super ultra obvious town (and I nullread their play

so far

more or less, though with some bias toward reading it as scum because of the slot). But I'd also be quite happy to run up Egix right now.

Why does it matter for one slot but not the other?

Because one of them did it while under heavy suspicion and the other is obviously town

What are your reads other than Dunn, Aureal?

Well, I tried to get my subconscious to answer this since I was getting in bed when you asked. But all that really came through by morning was something about Egix following people and being suspicious by covering the peephole in the door so nobody could see who was sneaking around outside.

THANKS A LOT SUBCONSCIOUS

I don't understand the hating on fire's slot. I think Alianna did one thing that comes off badly and I'm not convinced it's ai, it could well just be unfortunate. I dislike the replacements therefore scummy idea that's getting pushed. For all you know Delta might have looked at the game and went "oh shit Aureal is here, goodbye!" I'm not terribly familiar with the play of either but I don't feel like they're the type who fears being scum and ditches because of it. I'm getting somewhat alarmed by the push here by some of the same people who were pushing Enchant for easy reasons also pushing fire for a silly easy reason. I've heard this person is pretty good, what are people afraid they're going to do? I've not registered any actual arguments against what fire has done. I actually liked their debate with skitter- I didn't entirely follow but I think it was useful to know that she does actually have some idea how Andante plays. I had assumed that she didn't, it makes me a little more skeptical of her now.

Not thrilled with Egix so far either, especially that last "what you want" post, lol. But I don't think the slot can be scum with Dunn, from the way CSF pushed him.

Pedit: lots of posts since I started writing, whee

I dislike how her post here shows no acknowledgement of the explanation implosion and ceph gave. I also think people had reasons to scumread Alianna beyond that one post where she votes Enchant and she also doesn't acknowledge this. She's worried about the people who pushed Enchant, but for some reason doesn't seem all that worried about Alianna's vote. It feels like some of the people she's worried about are implosion and Ceph. I don't think implosion's push on Enchant can be called "easy"; if implo is scum here, I think he had to be lucky for making his push on Enchant even possible.

Spoiler:

I kind of see why Menalque immediately responds that way to fire's 1203 beyond just the post calling Menalque out. It feels like a very overwrought thought process. Like this assertion that Menalque must have had the whole spiel planned out from before the woo vote as town when like, part of what he was doing was asking questions.

like fire, you're saying "I don't find his reads progression believable, it doesn't seem like he genuinely had this planned since before the woo vote and all he does is ask a bunch of questions then give this big reveal" and like. yeah... the point of questions is to change your mind? I think at least part of this is me misinterpreting something but this whole post from fire just feels like either scum having a conclusion that they think they can justify and wanting to justify it, or possibly town who got a gut scumread on Menalque from reading and is now trying to back-justify why that scumread makes sense in the context of his progression without having really thought much about it before typing the words out because the read actually came from gut. And it doesn't sound like that's what fire

thinks

the read is. This probably doesn't make any sense though so alas

Nah, I think it makes sense and I think it's a fair point. I promptly called Mena's gambit towny because it felt justified by what had come before in my read, so it's a little strange for fire to have the opposite read. But I guess if everyone always thought the same way, this wouldn't even be a game people play.

I... think implosion was misunderstanding fire's point in this post, so for her to say the post makes sense feels like she hasn't fully understood fire's point at best

Ok I'm at the point where I see a lot of holes in my thinking, but I'm going to force myself to press submit on this post. Someone please talk to me about this I guess?

[Aisa]

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

Unrelated but

@Merlyn

: hello! Can you confirm or deny this? (No need to claim what action your slot took, just that it took an action)

[sheepsaysmeep]

And I read the post before, I mean I want you to cite the exact posts where fire is being objectively villagery

idk maybe there's nothing there if others dont see it lol. I just think his vibe is extremely villagery. villagery thought processes + very unafraid to engage with people + lots of WIM. I think he's had a pro-town effect on the game with how I had completely no motivation until fireisredsir entered and im like oh shit now we really have a game now theres good stuff. I have by far the best gut/natural reaction to his posting in this game before I process it and am like eh fine a wolf can do that. I would feel better about the wagon on him if it acknowledges those aspects of his play that I think look good (idk if it does that yet, I still havent read very in-depth and citing the specific posts u want rn feels weird cuz of that lolz. it's an eager open approach to the game thing

[Aisa]

I don't think implosion's push on Enchant can be called "easy"; if implo is scum here, I think he had to be lucky for making his push on Enchant even possible.

OK I'm sorry writing long posts is hard
I meant that if implo is scum here, I think he had to get lucky for it tobe possible to make the case on Enchant that he did

[Aisa]

@Aureal

- Feel free to address any of my megapost!
- What do you think of Ceph's case on Alianna?
- Who would you kill right now if you had to, and why?

@implosion

Can you briefly explain why you scumread the Alianna / Delta slot before Delta replaced out?

[fireisredsir]

aisa im down to talk about aureal but i feel like im not really... getting your post in a substantial way

i get the individual points you're making but maybe not how they come together as a whole

was this just kinda sharing thoughts that you came across as you investigated aureal, or did you end up with some sort of conclusion?

[Aisa]

It's ok, I don't get myself in a substantial way either

[fireisredsir]

rip

[Aisa]

aisa im down to talk about aureal but i feel like im not really... getting your post in a substantial way

i get the individual points you're making but maybe not how they come together as a whole

was this just kinda sharing thoughts that you came across as you investigated aureal, or did you end up with some sort of conclusion?

Sharing thoughts that I came across as I investigated. You're right the post has no clear conclusion! I ended up second guessing my read for like the eleventy billionth time while I was trying to write that post, so I didn't want to end it with by saying "So here are the reasons Aureal is definitely absolutely scum"

I'm staring at the game currently (your wall on skitter among other things) and trying to figure out what to do and I think RIGHT NOW I'd rather flip you or skitter than Aureal.

I'm sorry! I am trying to not be indecisive but I don't think I've really been in control of the indecision at any point this game.

[Aisa]

Anyway. What's your read on Aureal?