Open 106 - Impotence Mafia (Game Over!) before 714

[mrfixij]

/confirm

[mrfixij]

Vote: caboose

because rocks aren't people

[mrfixij]

Stranger, any particular reason for the double FOS while you have a vote available to be cast?

[mrfixij]

My apologies for not being more active, I've been busy with work and haven't had much time to log on. I'm going to get caught up with the recent activity. So far it seems like the big issues are Nat's attack on EMP, which then fell through and redirected attention to nat due to a meta of unhelpfulness.

Meta is a dangerous weapon. On one hand, it's great for finding scum if they have two distinct styles of play. On the other, it turns a player into an instant-lynch as either faction if they're known to be unhelpful.

As far as putting EMP at L-2, how is that scummy or unhelpful? If EMP is scum, then it's proceeding towards a scum lynch. If EMP is town, odds are very high that someone on that wagon is scum.

As far as my opinion on EMP/nat goes, neither looks particularly scummy. You're voting nat based on a meta and voting EMP based on a suggestion that shows great benefit to our roleblocker. I don't see how this makes either of them scum. I also think it would be a hell of a gambit to get into that kind of debacle if both were scum.

I think it's interesting that dumbblonde wanted info out of two lurkers who both stepped forward on P3 to say no to a massclaim and then step back into the shadows. I'm not entirely certain what it means yet, but I do think it's noteworthy.

But right now my biggest suspect is Zakeri. For starters, he's been on both the EMP and nat wagons, and both seem more town than scum to me right now. Also, this.

You have to weigh everything when if comes to the pros and cons of a plan.

If the three Vigs come out, We will get 9 Vanilla Claims. 1/3 of these people are Mafioso, 1/9 of these people is the protown RB

Pros:
-This prevents the PTRB from targeting Vigilantes
-Three people are confirmed town, which slightly tips the scale in favor of Town

Cons:
-This allows the MRB to block the Vigilantes
-Three people are confirmed NKed for the next three days, tipping the scales in the balance of mafia from non-informal NKs.

Of course, what we should be doing is scumhunting, not rolehunting. Unvote, Vote:EmpTyger

The thing about the Massclaim is that it truely is a good idea.

The problem however is that the long term effects begin weighing on the Mafia's side, while the shortterm effects weigh heavily on the town's side. Since this is an open set-up and we know how long we have until lylo, I propose that we do not utilize the plan until the day before lylo, to get maximized results from this while preventing the Mafia from confuse-lynching us.

Also, Question for the Mod: Will you be posting who got shot by the blanks as well as posting who died?

Emphasis mine. The first post seems to say that the cons outweigh the pros and that we shouldn't be rolehunting. The second quote says it's a genuinely good idea. While those aren't explicitly contradictory, they are divergent enough to warrant a vote from me.

unvote
vote:Zakeri

[mrfixij]

It can, however be said that if mafia doesn't have a claiming strategy, they will tomorrow. While I don't think a claim is prudent, I also think that speculating on what scum should/shouldn't do at this point in time where a massclaim is a possibility but not a certainty, and we don't know if scum has a strategy set in stone, is a very scummy action. I'd really rather not play the WIFOM game with people saying what scum is likely to do in the event of a massclaim. I personally don't support it, but if we're going to have one it should be without much more public speculation in regards to scumgain.

[mrfixij]

I'm seeing more WIFOM on this page than I'd like to. Blonde's post was dumb WIFOM, and yorgi's before that was a smart WIFOM. Both ways though, we're still speculating on what scum would or wouldn't do.

I also think that the case on SC is relatively insubstantial so far. While it may be all we're getting on a D1, it seems like it grew rather quickly without much backing.

[mrfixij]

So WIFOM can indeed be used as an attack, mrfixij?

Please elaborate. WIFOM is essentially fluff that adds nothing to conversation except the illusion of thought. Or, in more realistic terms, the illusion of practical thought. WIFOM is neither pro-town nor anti-town, it's just shoveling.

[mrfixij]

So WIFOM can indeed be used as an attack, mrfixij?

Please elaborate. WIFOM is essentially fluff that adds nothing to conversation except the illusion of thought. Or, in more realistic terms, the illusion of practical thought. WIFOM is neither pro-town nor anti-town, it's just shoveling.

Would using "I would do X as scum" as justification for voting someone for doing X him- or herself qualify as attacking someone with WIFOM?

No, that just qualifies as being stupid. WIFOM is never a tell one way or the other because it's a mind game. If you would do something as scum and vote for someone because of that, it's a nulltell and you're voting with no backing to it. A vote without good reason is scummy, but not necessarily a full-out balls to the wall confirmation of scum.

Of course though, it's incredibly obvious that blonde is role playing. As it is, it annoys me, but I think intentionally stupid play isn't a scumtell so to speak. Granted, if blonde is going to continue this train of play, it will be impossible to get a scum or towntell on her using that logic.

[mrfixij]

The act of WIFOM itself is a nulltell, the latent consequences of the act (appearing to be posting content should it go unchecked, etc) are antitown. The act of WIFOM itself is not an antitown move, but often WIFOM is played in a way that doesn't benefit town. The trick is to find which cases of WIFOM are without implication and which are being used to influence town.

[mrfixij]

Blonde will be hard to find a scumtell for because we can expect consistently dumb play from her. As such, it's hard to find a difference of intention or information from her as opposed to any other player.

[mrfixij]

BSW doesn't have ANY reason to be suspicious of Apass or Yorgi. This doesn't mean that they're not mafia, it means that BSW is throwing a virtually random suspicion. BSW is playing stupid. That means that even if she is in the informed minority, she can act like the uninformed majority without any effort whatsoever. If she all of a sudden gets a clue, that would be regarded as playing protown, but also be seen as becoming informed, so she's at a catch 22. As it is, I think that suspicion without a reason is not worthy suspicion at all. I can't see where she's pulling Apass and yorgi from when there's other pairs of inactivity that are just as possible. The only probable explanation is intentional stupidity.

This is different from Nat's anti-town play because Nat can be read. Nat, despite all the ridiculous antics and "I'll always claim SK lol" has shown that he can at the very least use logic to make an attempt at becoming informed. If he should ever show too much knowledge, then we can lynch him without question. BSW's play is easier to maintain, and not pro-town. This makes it more dangerous, but not necessarily scummy.

As far as Zakeri goes, I think he's cleared himself for now. I don't like the fact that Stranger is voting for BSW who is ultimately unconfirmable as of now. However, I don't like the fact that he is targetting aggression before he switched to BSW. Aggression isn't scummy, it's just a good way to rile up emotions and get players to slip up. If EMP is going to be "pushy", it just means that someone is going to push back and we're going to get a ton of information from the exchange. As of now though, discouraging antagonistic behavior is anti-information, and therefore anti-town.

unvote
Vote: StrangerCoug

[mrfixij]

Wow, afatchic, I saw you play in your newbie game with Llamafluff, and there you seemed to have a clue. As it is, calling out SC for failing to recognize the gender of a player or accusing one of being an alt is stupid, irrelevant, and hardly grounds for a case. I've already explained why I think SC is a good lynch, and EMP's case helps confirm that sentiment, but I'd like to throw my own homestyled

FOS: afatchic

for not fitting the meta of decent mafia player that I've seen from him prior as town.

[mrfixij]

Picked up the prod. I stand by my vote on SC. His votehopping, indecisiveness, and quick-to-distract attitude have me believing he's scum.

[mrfixij]

…Did you somehow miss the 6 itemized reasons I already gave? (3 of which, I might add, SC’s only defense against was to completely ignore and try to distract with the BSW wagon.)

I only ignored them because I had no comment. I was not attempting to distract from the BlondeSoWut wagon by doing so; in fact, I unvoted because I had stopped actively pursuing her case and her lynch isn't viable right now. It's still beyond me why you're twisting my Natirasha and BlondeSoWut cases together in whatever way you think you can when one, they're clearly unrelated, and two, I had a much better backing for the BlondeSoWut case than the Natirasha case (especially since my first decent scum tell on Natirasha, his being under the radar, came just yesterday).

If you're calling staying under the radar a scumtell, then you must frequently vote for town power roles, because that's their job too. Power roles need to find the proper balance to make themselves look scummy enough to not be NK'd and towny enough to not be lynched. As it is, your "tell" sucks.

[mrfixij]

Again, being pushy is scummy.

Start with EmpTyger and his making my Natirasha and BlondeSoWut cases sound like they have to do with each other when they don't. Your opinion of Appassionata would be good too.

Need I say more?

[mrfixij]

Dear god, I confirm my vote a while ago and I get modprodded again? All we've got is a baseless suspicion against apass, who is now a claimed vig. I'm still backing SC.