Mini Normal 2304: Conway's Game Of Life [GAME OVER!]

[bob3141]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey before he eats us all

[bob3141]

Im not sure scum would try to move the game so quickly. My gut is owl action far more likley come from town than scum

[bob3141]

Howdy howdy

I dont know why but my spin omitter is pinged you as scum lol It would be funny if you actualy are

[bob3141]

hi bob I think we played together a while back as wolves when I was much worse and u were p fun

Hi yep was a while ago

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

[bob3141]

and the distinction you make between idiotic aggression and scum aggression is...?

bumping this very good question

That posts feels a bit too opportunistic in its timing

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like omgus town. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like

omgus town

. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

Um how? You never stated you scumread me? Again it feels like these aren't real reads

Doesnt change that i get very much get that impression from you. The only person to directly question so far ends up being scum read by you. So my gut says you are very much a player thats prone to OMGUS. Hence, fact that i think your OMGUS Town player. Added to the fact you fail to fully read any of my posts (even though they were short) tells me that your responding in knee yerk reaction. I always scum tends to be more calculating and actual have impression that they actual full understood the post even if they end up clearly misrepresenting it.

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like omgus town. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

Well that was an easy iso lol.

Why is he calling the vote on him OMGUS? This really does feel like he is informed actually, like he knows you are town.....and is trying to discredit your vote as just 'a random shot in the dark' but going out of his way not to call you scummy in any way.

Hu you sonuva bitch, you have my sheep here

VOTE: Bob

Were as this looks far more scummy response

Clearly they understood what i actual said but go out of their way to misrepresent inorder to justify sheepign your vote.

First he connects two entirly seperate conjectures. The first that im not using OMGUS in stand way, even when its from a player that hasnt played mafia game in 3 years. Second trys to imply basely that im informed based on no info. And trys to use that first conjecture to justify his unrelated second conjecture

Secondly he jumps on the last sentance and goes out of his way to misquote it too. what i actualy said below

But most votes this early

are pretty much a shot in the dark

see how he adds random and cuts out the generalisation that every vote so far is based on little information. Hence the shot in the dark. (Do i really need to explain the phrase) In general such action come from scum more than town. Instead of seeing a post that refers to every vote so far he trys and make it look like it refers only to Hu Vote to push his unsupported conjecture.

town thought path for vote - reason >Vote

scums - Vote > reason

[bob3141]

do you have other reads bob, on the other players, and would you respond to my question... you might have skipped that part.

You mean the timing thing. Felt like gamestat manipulation though still unsure if its scum or town motivated game state manipulation your doing. Or just my paranoia.


Yep have other reads but focusing on town hunting at the moment.

Hu, Pere and espe im think are town plus owl possibly.


Oh and i doubt based on odds that Pere and Drew rolled the scum team again. There either t/t or s/t.

[bob3141]

Monkey's eagerness to control the game feels scum-motivated. And this is only exacerbated by the fact that they have really gone hard on the proverbial low hanging fruit.

The lining up of lynches is also always something I am watchful of. In both cases, if owl is town, monkey is just being negligent if town, and if owl is scum it's a very aggressive theater strat. The common thread being that monkey lining up lynches is poo poo.

vote: humaneatingmonkey

IIRC HEM had 3 votes at this time.

Could it be reaching for low-hanging fruit adding a fourth vote at this time?

I thought this at the time i was collecting wagon data but sheep had already switched his rvs vote on HEM to Owl quite a few hours before and on the same page. At the time he pushed it back to 3

[bob3141]

Espe- perg ,HEM , sheep, nurse

are the current ones on Espeonage at the moment

Other than that one there is no other substantial wagon. So doesnt look reactionary to any other wagon. If espeonage was scum i would have expect something else somewhere else unless we have scum in the ones that havent posted for a few days.

[bob3141]

VOTE: sheep

Why change your vote to sheep from Drew. Whats changed in your reads that now has sheep a more pressing vote for you than drew or your other red read me

[bob3141]

sheep how do you explain no counter wagon espeonage since you very much see the wagon so far as all town. Of course there are pushes on some of those one it. owl pushign against nurse, dragon you and espeonage has pushed against HEM.

I find it hard to beleive that if im wrong about espeonage being town that the current lack off energy in wagonomics forming is just becuase the team is espeonage, Bellaphant and Not_mafia.

What do you think of Dragons Vote on you which is the latest vote development since espeonage hit 4 votes.

[bob3141]

HEM you really do go out of your away to push anyone that points any flaw in espe wagon. If you are town are you really ignoring the fact that you could be wrong and that scum are doing mixture vanity voting and inactive. Whith maybe no more than one scum on espe. Why do you think you have not seen any real pivot of you if he isnt town? Instead he is focused on you which would actual indicated that your interactions would be svs as he is self proclaimed busser

If you ask why no more than one, although wagon has some energy it doesnt feel like it has the energy of two scum skew natural propagation of wagon. P.s. wanted to use a fancy word even if doesnt 100% fit


One thing Espe is certianly right about is that your going out of your way to control the narative. In respone to me getting sheeps view on dragons odd vote on sheep. You make two big posts directed towards me

Of HEM, Peregrine, and Random Nurse if feel no more than one is scum as really do not think more than one scum is on that wagon. and that wagon is pere, sheep, Nurse and you.

[bob3141]

Difference between pushing as scum and simply pushing against anothers ideas. ive seen town do it and scum do it. but doesnt chnage that you heavily responding to anything that runs counter to espe is scum. As your 2 two posts were in response to a question to sheep which was also proceded by one to dragon. Dragon vote is odd, i can certainly see him not voting espe based on his read list but if he was to move his vote of drew i would of expected it to move to me first. He paints me and drew most likely to be scum yet he goes to one his neut reads.

one that is actively pushing agaisnt espe rather natural progression of his reads which would be to vote me. I just dont get it


in and old game scum pt. his meta could of changed since was many years ago (2019) around the time i still played but pretty much says he has tendancy to bus day one

[bob3141]

Micro 920 - Mafia PT it 3 years old so his play style might have changed

[bob3141]

Doesnt bother me but does raise my eye. As i said ive seen it in town and scum.


Think several times in past but hard to remember who was scum and who was town but was just part of my usual dive on past games. ehe has nothing do with me looking at random chance

Scum rarely combine into one wagon but have seen it so its never something to rule out. I remember my first game were the entire scum team was combining with the entire mason team to power lynch the town lol

most of your options of wagosn really are only just lone votes.

sheep is just dragon if dragon was scum espe wagon could go either way. Either it's scum trying chainsaw (whatever right term is) or a vanity vote so when town espe flips he presses town on espe wagon.

Hu reminds me of the reaction MT once had to me after one of my reaction tests/ clarifications. That time i wrongly tunneled him for a while. drew who joined him im unceratin on, per seems to vouch for him so either per is scum trying to pocket drew or per is town and see drew playign different to a recent scum game.

Nurse im drawing a blank on. his surface level comment raised an eye so i know he is experinced. His vote espe has value for both his alignment from their point of view.

hadnt really noticed much direct at drew and on owl early wagon that went no where but mostly switched to espe. which would imply simple town motivated switch there. so the break of his wagon really isnt AI.


Can you tell me what you think of Dragons vote on sheep? As those posts untimatly that result in your two posts

[bob3141]

VOTE: Hu Tao

would like to see more from them. perhaps their thoughts on drew?

Why specifically Drew?

[bob3141]

hu and bob seems like town vs town. having looked closely at their interactions, drew's behaviour looks even weirder. a really really awkward pocketing attempt maybe?

Also why the vote on Hy Tao when as far as i can tell the only really prior stance on him is this one. going from hu looking liek town to a vote.

On the back of dunns vote on Hu Tao. Looks very opportunistic and with little progression.

VOTE: Owl

[bob3141]

How is that opportunistic when there are several other players with more votes than Hu Tao that they could have voted?

Just because there could be more opportunistic Votes doesnt mean its not opportunistic (though maybe in looser meaning then the term oppoertunistic scum). The main bit was the progression though. from neut to town lean and then a vote. With very little to justify the reads.

Based on his reads the logical vote would be Drew. Instead he flips his vote onto a player that his last read on was that drew was trying to pocket Hu Toa. And that bob v HU Toa looked town v town

[bob3141]

im reading the game again

I don't think that quiet owl's aggro-ness comes from scum, same for random nurse. i think it's likely tvt to get scrappy this early.

espeonage's accusation that hem is lining up lims is a little weird, i think that's extremely misinterpreting what hem said, but againt that could be town.

this game is moving pretty fast. i feel like a couple people have said a bit of nothing these first few pages, but that includes me since i was away.

this is up to page 3

page 4: 83 is kind of weird and i like sheep for calling it out. i don't know yet if i'm satisfied with the explanations in 85. especially regarding bella, and the high equity one of esp/hu is scum. disagree with sheep who seems okay with them.

i kind of like espeonage in page 4 and 5. this is more of a gut read but it feels like they're town, even if i don't agree that calling out two names == setting up elims.

not a fan of bob's posts

6 onward i like dunnstral so far this game

i think i'm here, dark green being the towniest

Bellaphant

Doctor Drew

Random Nurse

bob3141

Dunnstral

Peregrine

Espeonage

Quiet Owl

Not_Mafia

sheepsaysmeep

Hu Tao

humaneatingmonkey

VOTE: Dr. Drew for now

Dragon vote is odd, i can certainly see him not voting espe based on his read list but if he was to move his vote of drew i would of expected it to move to me first. He paints me and drew most likely to be scum yet he goes to one his neut reads.

my reads are in flux, sheep's gone down and you've gone up.

Bellaphant

Doctor Drew

Random Nurse

bob3141

Dunnstral

Peregrine

Espeonage

Quiet Owl

Not_Mafia

sheepsaysmeep

Hu Tao

humaneatingmonkey

is where i'm currently at i think?

Can you explain for each of the reads changed between your 2 read lists?

As your catch up largely revolves around your town read on Espe

[bob3141]

hu and bob seems like town vs town. having looked closely at their interactions, drew's behaviour looks even weirder. a really really awkward pocketing attempt maybe?

Also why the vote on Hy Tao when as far as i can tell the only really prior stance on him is this one. going from hu looking liek town to a vote.

On the back of dunns vote on Hu Tao. Looks very opportunistic and with little progression.

VOTE: Owl

"opportunistic" opportunistic would be going after espeon at this point.
i would like to be able to sort hu's slot confidently, prior to voting i was giving them a weak townread, but their catty behaviour since isn't alignment indicative and just makes me dislike them as a person.

hu, please reconsider your approach to the game?

So what made you decide as you say to choose Hu Toa to try and sort with Vote? Why did you pick him over any other players

What is your read on Dragon as i see in your ISO you have not mention him once?

[bob3141]

Not_mafia have you got any reads

[bob3141]

So Owl if the first spoiler post could be made by town or scum. Why do you simply not think that it isnt AI and not worth mentionin

Owl why do you think im calling HEM out as scummy in your second spoiler when I specifically state " ive seen town do it and scum do it". Certainly wasnt scummy action but a non AI one. It was only annoying as it was late and it was was during my working week. Feels like your trying to put words in my mouth to justify your own read



Also i dont get what you mean by HEM not makign many statements. Regardless if you think HEM is town or scum i cant see any one honestly being able to come up with that HEM hasnt many statments. IS it just stamenents regards to you or all game your claiming?



On your fourth point/spoiler what HEM is claiming is something that happens quite often in different ways. In the past ive tried pushing scum and they would respond with deflections and Espe calling sheep bad town could be considered a delfection here. So it entirly plausible town would make such a post even if you dont agree with it.

[bob3141]

I think NM would be bad elimination day one as we will not get much info. Hopefully his slot can be sorted or eliminated later

[bob3141]

His slot either gets replaced, vigged, investigated or he starts posting more. NM is even from him this is very game quite

[bob3141]

The lack of any activity is odd. As in his last scum game he didnt have many reads but was posting more

[bob3141]

But i do think it would be waste when there is chance NM could either end up being replaced day 2 or simply get involved.

[bob3141]

Looks like NM hasnt posted for 60 hours.

[bob3141]

Is it me or has this game sort of stalled.

[bob3141]

i think quite owl is clear first time scum player. As far as i can see they have only played town on this site so far. 3-4 town games too zero scum games. Cant see me voting else where day one

[bob3141]

I don't see how people are reading Hu Tao's recent posts as town. Basically all they did is defend themselves against suspicion and vote the person who voted them. I mean, maybe that doesn't make them mafia, but how are people going from null to town?

because this is exactly how they behaved in previous games with them when they were town

So you're saying that you think I'd be uncapable of doing this as scum? If so, what would be hard to replicate?

I don't see how people are reading Hu Tao's recent posts as town. Basically all they did is defend themselves against suspicion and vote the person who voted them. I mean, maybe that doesn't make them mafia, but how are people going from null to town?

Suspicious post. Reads as someone that is upset that someone they know is town is being townread unrighteously. How about instead of saying why I'm not town for those posts, explain why I'm mafia?

I like these posts

What specifically do you like about them?

[bob3141]

10 hours to deadline. I would prefer owl but if its to avoid a no lynch im happy with T3 today.

and it looks like no body want to rep into owls slot lol

[bob3141]

Ill prob swicth my vote to T3 in 2 hours ish (just before i go to bed) if T3 hasnt claimed.

[bob3141]

VOTE: T3

[bob3141]

If anyone has specific theories for why Dunn died that's gonna point to who the scum is then sure i'd like to hear it. My current impression is that it was just a low-info kill by the mafia.

Though i am going to re-evaluate your slot, i do have to point out say ing that is WIFOF. or what ever it is lol, ant remember

Fact Nurse moved the leading wagon from owl to t3 before deadline is quite telling. Ill have to see if he cared or not if your slot actualy got exed.

[bob3141]

VOTE: T3 yeah good catch I would expect T3 to probably advocate for his actually scumreads a little harder here. He did vote for HEM but you would think that T3 would like, argue for them at least somewhat even if he did ultimately compromise vote

Supper scummy vote


VOTE: Invisibility

You voted his for saying he rather a slot he knew was town wasnt exed over a slot he only had a slight town lean on.

Same logic as confirmed scum nurse

PLus the veloicty of that wagon day 1 implys 2 scum.

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like omgus town. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

Well that was an easy iso lol.

Why is he calling the vote on him OMGUS? This really does feel like he is informed actually, like he knows you are town.....and is trying to discredit your vote as just 'a random shot in the dark' but going out of his way not to call you scummy in any way.

Hu you sonuva bitch, you have my sheep here

VOTE: Bob

Were as this looks far more scummy response

Clearly they understood what i actual said but go out of their way to misrepresent inorder to justify sheepign your vote.

First he connects two entirly seperate conjectures. The first that im not using OMGUS in stand way, even when its from a player that hasnt played mafia game in 3 years. Second trys to imply basely that im informed based on no info. And trys to use that first conjecture to justify his unrelated second conjecture

Secondly he jumps on the last sentance and goes out of his way to misquote it too. what i actualy said below

But most votes this early

are pretty much a shot in the dark

see how he adds random and cuts out the generalisation that every vote so far is based on little information. Hence the shot in the dark. (Do i really need to explain the phrase) In general such action come from scum more than town. Instead of seeing a post that refers to every vote so far he trys and make it look like it refers only to Hu Vote to push his unsupported conjecture.

town thought path for vote - reason >Vote

scums - Vote > reason

Supervillain response + Nurse ignored this building wagon on Bob. Not even making a comment on it. That is partnery.

hate to point out but thats flawed logic as nurse interacted with only half the player base aswell as realy only pushing the espe wagon

[bob3141]

HEM you really do go out of your away to push anyone that points any flaw in espe wagon. If you are town are you really ignoring the fact that you could be wrong and that scum are doing mixture vanity voting and inactive. Whith maybe no more than one scum on espe. Why do you think you have not seen any real pivot of you if he isnt town? Instead he is focused on you which would actual indicated that your interactions would be svs as he is self proclaimed busser

If you ask why no more than one, although wagon has some energy it doesnt feel like it has the energy of two scum skew natural propagation of wagon. P.s. wanted to use a fancy word even if doesnt 100% fit


One thing Espe is certianly right about is that your going out of your way to control the narative. In respone to me getting sheeps view on dragons odd vote on sheep. You make two big posts directed towards me

Of HEM, Peregrine, and Random Nurse if feel no more than one is scum as really do not think more than one scum is on that wagon. and that wagon is pere, sheep, Nurse and you.

this post bugs me. Feels super informed in hindsight VOTE: Bob

like the first paragraph sort of defends Espeon without a very good reason. Also harping on the one scum on the wagon is weird. Saying that HEM and Espeon's interactions are svs is also a weird statement like they shaded HEM and then immediately undermined themself by defending Espeon.

Misrep. its quite clear i was pointing out that the wagonomics screamed town espe. if it were not for the risk of nolynch i would never of voted T3.

Also misreping the fact that espe tends to buss his partners especialy if they are weaker. And at no point did i ever day their interactions was svs.



Invis you really are stretching just like you vote on T3 day one

[bob3141]

HEM, how do you read Invisibility currently?

Feels like a perspective slip.

Looks more like partner fishing what a players read on his scum buddy is


Heam/Nurse posts on a quick look feels s/t

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

In my opinion your posts are kind of surface-level.

Why do you like Espeonage so far for being Town?

Scum do line up lims, but so has Town, so that point seems moot imo.

I think this makes it even more likely Hu Toa is town


Scum players tend not to use the surface level argument against partners.

second line looks more likely scum talking to town. than scum talkign to scum

[bob3141]

I think owl start is slightly more likely wolf.

OK, but why exactly?

Not sure if he is defending his partner or trying to egg on sheeps chnage of read.

Anyway makes sheep prob town

[bob3141]

hate to point out but thats flawed logic as nurse interacted with only half the player base aswell as realy only pushing the espe wagon

They seemed to put in a word or something with most wagons though, except yours.

Wasnt even a wagon, never amount to more than 2 votes. The only 2 wagons of substance was espe/T3 and your slot and he only ever commented on espe. He talked to owl early day one and bit mid that felt like it wasnt s/s.

[bob3141]

Fact Nurse moved the leading wagon from owl to t3 before deadline is quite telling. Ill have to see if he cared or not if your slot actualy got exed.

I won't dispute it being a fact, but it could just as easily be because it was TvT wagons and they wanted to move to T3 so my slot could be limmed at an later time. Also Owl was inactive at that point so it also means Nurse might have thought that hammering an inactive town slot would look bad on them once the flip was done.

My assumption during a reread. was that nurse flipped the wagon to t3 as owl would be easier misexe the next day. Too many players prepared to vote owl for scum to risk getting their hands dirty like that. Looked like opportunistic scum trying to get teh hard misexeuction through during the last day of day one.

[bob3141]

VOTE: T3 yeah good catch I would expect T3 to probably advocate for his actually scumreads a little harder here. He did vote for HEM but you would think that T3 would like, argue for them at least somewhat even if he did ultimately compromise vote

Supper scummy vote


VOTE: Invisibility

You voted his for saying he rather a slot he knew was town wasnt exed over a slot he only had a slight town lean on.

Same logic as confirmed scum nurse

PLus the veloicty of that wagon day 1 implys 2 scum.

Also you say this vote on T3 by Invisibility at EOD1 was bad, but you didn't react to it prior? Despite being active at that time too? And also voting T3 just like Invisibility did?

End of day one apathy

but the fact scum still ended up one down has me fired up

[bob3141]

I think Hu Tao is town

[bob3141]

You and Hu Tao are in sync!

I'm kinda leaning toward Bob being town actually

I think Hu Tao is town

not really, ive been town reading for while

Hu Tao only started town reading me start of day 2

[bob3141]

Invisibility so what are your reads on other players?

In post 485 you said you were caught up. I cant see you stating anywhere who you town read, who is neutral and you have only made 3 pushs. One vs HEM, second one against T3 with weak reasoning and third against me.

[bob3141]

VOTE: T3 yeah good catch I would expect T3 to probably advocate for his actually scumreads a little harder here. He did vote for HEM but you would think that T3 would like, argue for them at least somewhat even if he did ultimately compromise vote

Supper scummy vote


VOTE: Invisibility

You voted his for saying he rather a slot he knew was town wasnt exed over a slot he only had a slight town lean on.

Same logic as confirmed scum nurse

PLus the veloicty of that wagon day 1 implys 2 scum.

what's your argument here exactly? I had similar logic to known scum? Y'know, I also had similar logic as known town. Plus I don't think that agreeing with scum is a very good indicator of scumhood

Then why did you choose T3 over owl. As far as i can see your ISO was no mention of "owl". Also why did his vote for owl change your read on him from town to scum. Post 469 you say that you think espe is town. and in that same post you say two of nurse posts ( 315,316) look "makes these posts kinda scummy too".

So we have your only reference to nurse day one first sayign you think they made some scummy posts too you agreeing with them on T3 vote. Were you reading Nurse at end of day one as town and if so why?

[bob3141]

Invisibility so what are your reads on other players?

In post 485 you said you were caught up. I cant see you stating anywhere who you town read, who is neutral and you have only made 3 pushs. One vs HEM, second one against T3 with weak reasoning and third against me.

I did say how I found posts from Hu to be townie yesterday. I agreed with Owl the assertion that coming out of the gate swinging with the wagon thing suggested Owl was town. Don't really have much else on that slot or any slot for that matter.

Care to quote these posts reagrding owl. As you iso shows nothing when i search "owl". Well apart from this post im quoting.

[bob3141]

Also what are your current reads on


Doctor Drew/BloodB0t

Peregrine

sheepsaysmeep

Save The Dragons

humaneatingmonkey


I would add NM but who can say to have a read on him lol

[bob3141]

Also what are your current reads on


Doctor Drew/BloodB0t

Peregrine

sheepsaysmeep

Save The Dragons

humaneatingmonkey


I would add NM but who can say to have a read on him lol

what do you hope to gain from asking this?

So are you saying you have no reads on these players?

[bob3141]

Also what are your current reads on


Doctor Drew/BloodB0t

Peregrine

sheepsaysmeep

Save The Dragons

humaneatingmonkey


I would add NM but who can say to have a read on him lol

what do you hope to gain from asking this?

So are you saying you have no reads on these players?

I already said that they were null except for like HEM. Again, what are you hoping to get from me that I haven't already said?

Expect before this post you had not made a single mention of dragon,sheep drew/blood and pere. Thats 40% of the remaining players. Also i think this is the second time you have tried to deflect questioning by saying that you "already said" when you hadnt

Do you think its a unreasonable question to ask? As before now you had not stated at any point if you thought they were scum, null or town.

[bob3141]

Expect before this post you had not made a single mention of dragon,sheep drew/blood and pere. Thats 40% of the remaining players. Also i think this is the second time you have tried to deflect questioning by saying that you "already said" when you hadnt

Do you think its a unreasonable question to ask? As before now you had not stated at any point if you thought they were scum, null or town.

what did you think I meant when I said I didn't have many thoughts on other slots? Your question doesn't feel like genuine inquiry cuz I don't know what you expect to get from me. Like, I get thinking I've been ignoring slots or whatever, but just asking a question that I'd already answered (and I did. Idk why you think I didn't just cuz I didn't individually mention them by name) feels like you're more interested in making me pursue waterfowl than sorting me

To be frank you have had a single reference to those slots in any form before i pushed you. Not even a generic claim that all other slots were null as you claim. In fact you first use of slots, null was a direct response to my questioning. Which is pretty common in scum that dont want to be nailed down to any town reads


You seem be getting super defensive in our interactions. For instance in post 649 you responded in defensive manner rather than as i would expect a town player behave. Which would be yes followed by somethign along teh lines that you would look at them. Instead you cam out with defensive what more do you want.

[bob3141]

Dragon can you go into your day one town read of nurse, what made you think that they were hunting? Also what did you think about them pushing for exeuction of one of your 4 town reads

[bob3141]

I'm thinking a wagon on him will make the slot more readable.

With one scum down we have pleanty of time to resolve the NM slot. Even if thats an execution at ELO-1

Either NM is town or scum but with his slot its always best to find the scum in the other 8p. As you have atleast 1 scum in 8 (-self&NM) or there is infact 2 in 8

[bob3141]

sheepsaysmeep

humaneatingmonkey I will still go with town. wanting the NM wagon like that is almost too shameless to be wolf lol idk

STD I will go with town

Norwee I accept is town

=====

peregrine I still do not want to vote but they are dropping down into more and more "could be wolf" and probably need to do things?

====

Bloodb0t can die

bob, I disliked his posting today. I disagree with people who liked his response to Norwee's pressure on him; it made me pivot completely from townreading to scumreading. but I sorta like his invisibility push. they are definitely not w/w together

invisibility is a scumread. he just feels inauthentic. like in a vacuum im

fine

with everything he's said. but im used to invisibility being able to super obvtown and he is simply nothing close to that in this game, his self-defenses rub me weirdly and theres not much else to like.

====

Hu Tao ???
Not_Mafia is Not_Mafia

So where do you want to stick your vote, even if its provisional. As we're 2 days down of a 7 day week so you have scum list of (blood,bob,invis0 and neut of pere but who do you want to vote for

[bob3141]

Also HEM with the nurse and espe/T3 flips what are your reads after your RE-read (apart from NM which really is blind spot)

[bob3141]

i'm thinking a solid stack of votes and the movement around solid stack of votes will make the slot more readable. i don't buy that we won't have any information.

What happens is normaly N_M scum partners will buss him. At most we might get a claim


But with how N_M has played so far we either execute him day 2 or 3 (he doesnt get to elo). At the moment scum have had a suprise loss so they will be tilted. We gain more from who the 2 scum could be by scum hunting else were and at some point simply policy exeucting N_M if he isnt dead yet. At teh moment that very much is day 3 thing.

[bob3141]

Also HEM have you re-read the thread yet. I am interested to know what your reads are aprt from that N_M should be in everyones poe. If you had to pick 4 players to be in you poe (2 misexes and 2 scum) who woudl they be

[bob3141]

Bella, when you find the time, would you be able to share why owl is prob town

Ahaha I was rushing, I meant nurse. I liked nurses questioning if owl, owls response was poor.

This kinda of pings me weird from Bella.

Like they didn't really care who they were saying they were town reading.....just as long as they were town.

Also, I feel like I will know what scummer you married......I feel like I remember this lol.

looking back i actualy like this read from drew. I would expect nurse partner to be town reading him

[bob3141]

I would expect nurse partner to be town reading him

why?

he flipped strongman in game with multi bg. Not that i could find any reference to anyone scum reading him apart from espe. He was either town read or plain just ignored by everyone

[bob3141]

I'm not scumreading any of sheep, peregrine, and random nurse. MAYBE if scum bussed, it's between sheepsaysmeep (weird interplay between him and Espe) or Peregrine (Peregrine was heavy on the pocketing language on me). so i'm looking for one or two scum struggling to build a counterwagon by taking potshots on the most vulnerable slots.

If StD is town, I can understand StD seeing it, agreeing with the "surface level contribution" of sheep, and voting that way because he's not sold on Espeonage as scum. Sure. I can see the POV. Heavily disagree with it all of it, but I can see it. On the other hand if I'm looking for partners, StD is doing precisely what I expect a partner to do. But he's not the only one.

But let's be clear. I'm not "pushing against ideas". I didn't just talk to StD because he disagrees with me. Most of the players do. I talked with him because I understand other people have other reads and I discuss my reads with other people - like what I'm doing now - because it gives me a 2-for-1 bang-for-buck return on my time: I get to hear more from someone's POV and I get better discussion out of the game.

HEM why did you think there was potential for sheep or Peregrine to be bussing at that point but not nurse?

Also since you though scum would try to build a counter wagon, what did you think when the alternative wagon became owl. And what lead you to believe that these wagons were svs rather than a scum espe/t3 and a town owl day one?

[bob3141]

im leaning towards nurse/owls day one interaction indicating that owl/norwegian slot is town

[bob3141]

Also HEM since there doesnt seem to be much interest in N_M execution who would be the next 2 in your poe for executions.

[bob3141]

this game is probably Quiet Owl, T3, and Doctor Drew/Invisibility - gun to head

Town!T3 just votes and sees what happens, imo

If quiet owl flips scum then we're in a reality where the scum team is absolutely shit at controlling the narrative.

Scumteam is EXACTLY Owl, T3, and Invisibility.

So how has your read on invisibility slot changed. What order would you rank the 4 players in your poe from scummiest to least scummy.

[bob3141]

Ok so its just the fact nurse made a throw away vote on invs that made you change read but what about drew/blood and pere

[bob3141]

above at HEM

[bob3141]

I really have trouble seeing norwee as scum here

I feel like bloodb0t said "I'm not obsessed! You're obsessed!" Then left the thread so I'm not unhappy with this vote

HIm repping out is prob not AI after all he only made 3 posts. So i doubt he even read the thread past beginning of day 2

[bob3141]

UNVOTE:

Feeling better about the Invis slot. Although I do get scummy feeling from nurse/HEM/(invis) interactions but leaning towards if my feeling is right then its more likely to be HEM thats scum out of HEM and Invis.

[bob3141]

Feeling better about the Invis slot.

why?

Although I do get scummy feeling from nurse/HEM/(invis) interactions but leaning towards if my feeling is right then its more likely to be HEM thats scum out of HEM and Invis.

I don't think you've explained what makes HEM scummy from those interactions

Its not so much as scummy more the interplay. There is just something im seeing with those interactions. Been going over and over nurse posts trying to look for his strat plus indications of the scum teams plan. After all looking back ive counted atleast 5 slips from nurse. It could be nothing it could be something but im very much not liking HEM sudden change from start of day 2. Plus he still is in my poe

Town reading sheep, pere, norw. lesser town reads on HU tao, dragon and i know im town.

[bob3141]

HEM, how do you read Invisibility currently?

HEM, how do you read Invisibility currently?

The obvious agenda to undermine me was enough to call them scum. There was no inch of fair assessment of my alignment - he immediately went after me to discredit me.

He doesnt even bother doing anything else. It's a 13-p he just replaced into. Where are his other reads?

Hm..

VOTE: Invisibility

Its things like this. There is just somethign about HEM and nurses sentence. its doesnt look like its writen from the perspective of town. Its writen from perspective of how ive felt as scum before. more huffy then a town player scum reading. And nurses reads more like a spring board for HEM to counter invis

[bob3141]

After all looking back ive counted atleast 5 slips from nurse.

well that's too interesting not to elaborate now

some of it migth be comfirmation bias from knowing he is scum but ill quote a few

[bob3141]

So at this point Quiet Owl I would like you to please answer my question on him being "fine."

Secondly I'd ask you to be less quick in adding context that wasn't there, because that to me does seem Scum-ish, [/b]but Town players have done this as well[/b].

And then of course the yellow part.

points to beign informed on who is town. he says "have done" rather than "do this"

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

In my opinion your posts are kind of surface-level.

Why do you like Espeonage so far for being Town?

Scum do line up lims, but so has Town, so that point seems moot imo.

again tensing error. "so has" rather than "so do"

[bob3141]

the other 3 are just red flags rather than actual slips.

[bob3141]

VOTE: T3 yeah good catch I would expect T3 to probably advocate for his actually scumreads a little harder here. He did vote for HEM but you would think that T3 would like, argue for them at least somewhat even if he did ultimately compromise vote

VOTE: T3

Never noticed this at time but HEM voted a minute after invis. The fact that HEM must of been lurking in the thread to vote exactly one minute after. I do find odd the fact that their was no hesitation, due to the fact one of his 3 scum reads just voted for the other. With that wagon taking the top stop from his other scum reads

[bob3141]

Scumteam is EXACTLY Owl, T3, and Invisibility.

if it is not obvious, i am willing to elim anyone from my scumlist. everyone else: who do you want to vote out today or is it just anyone?

above was only 8 hours before the vote. Below doesnt show any sign that he is thinking that he is atleast wrong on one which is the thought process i would expect of him if he was town.

[bob3141]

alterantively, if Quiet Owl flips town then the gamestate is scum sheeping or hiding behind my dumbass to carry a goat to endgame for them to slaughter. immediately eliminate or investigate me night 1 or day 2 to confirm this and avoid this situation.

Feels like at that point HEM was already planning a strat to get around suspension should the owl wagon have gone through. Aswell as trying to set a narrative for why he doesnt die going forward. I really dont think this is coming from thought process that comes from town. Esp when prevous comment was, well if owl is scum then scum team is just bad.

And that slot is still in his poe. When a nurse flip would imply scum did have hand in controlling teh narrative as confirmed scum primary push ended up executed

[bob3141]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[bob3141]

im a town bodyguard finder. i visited someone but they're not a bodyguard. unfortunately it's not peregrine.

sounds like a scum role

[bob3141]

Its in effect a weakened version of vannila cop. They can spot the town bg pr but not other pr role.

[bob3141]

hem

I think I would feel much more validated about general grasp of the game / being on a good path. Like my view of things was always heavily based on you being town + things we were pushing being heavily town-driven, but flips so far have made me think I need to turn my thoughts on their head lol

I would agree with you that our position is pretty good. NM would prob be a good call for wolf just POE-wise. maybe drew/ bot/roden slot still. Maybe invis for d1, can you remind me what you think of them

N_M would still be a waste of a day 2 execution. N_M should be in everyone poe but simply not an informative slot at the moment. After all he is lurker slot thats hard to read. However, a more active slot gives more info as you have what they flip as and who did and woulnt vote for them.

So in summary N_M is valid once we in stage of not wanding to enter elo with him.

[bob3141]

yeah, but im not mafia. you also have to think about that.

wow great argument There are 10 players alive in this games that would all say the same thing and 2 of them are not going to be telling the truth.

[bob3141]

So there is no good reason for it to exist?
This is even more ground for HEM to claim their result.

Its also the sort of fake claim ive made as scum before.

[bob3141]

i want an extra day because if we flip n_m and he flips mafia, I'm spewed town. i can also do norwee's test and confirm my role.

hey, I'm goners anyway if I'm scum. and you're all gonna need to flip n_m anyway.

Nope, 10 out of 10 times scum busses N_M if he is mafia. So N_M alignment is irrelevant to your role.

And nope to the second. Ive run that gambit before and it won me the scum game. In that one I claimed vannilla cop but I was just guessing all my results. I was saying give me a day and i actualy got one and then another.


The scummy thing is that your claiming to think flipping N_M today is a good idea. He dies before elo but with this gamestate never on day 2

[bob3141]

i thought he was most likely bodyguard. i thought if he was a bodyguard, it would be the same as a green check.

So you investigated the person you believed to be town. With an ability thats only value could be to catch a fake bg claim

[bob3141]

let's see if i'm right on n_m first. then you can kick me off tomorrow. give me the shot to possibly spew my slot town.

if you really think I'm scum, I'll spew as much as i possibly can. I'll talk my ass off. answer any questions. sing and dance.

and you can still elim me day 3! I'm not asking to never be eliminated. I'm just asking to participate tomorrow, after an n_m flip and a night kill.

what's there to lose? we need to flip n_m anyway, in any day. while i agree my flip is important for gamestate, I'll be much useful to the town as any alignment if left alive.

night 2 i can target norwee and get confirmed -twice-. then you don't need to be worried about me finding pr for scum because norwee consents to being targeted tonight.

Since you got to e-1 the first time you have hard spewed as scum.

The last line couldnt be more of hard scum claim. The fact your trying to pass your self as confirmed couldnt be more scummy. It doesnt even confirm your role let alone your alignment. What you claimed is even easier to fake than a vannila cop fake claim

[bob3141]

The more I think about it I don't get this game anymore. I'm not sure if it was a bodyguard or vig who did the kill. Not sure what scum has to balance the fact that we likely have lots of bodyguards. Not sure how HEMs role would fit in any of that. I'm assuming scum probably has a bodyguard if that's possible if we have a vig? Too many thoughts for end of day. Either way I'm not against just getting rid of N_M anyway.

Only vig and vengful cause extra NK in normal games and t3 wasnt vengful. so a second town nk or a scum nk is always 100% the result of a vig in normal games if no vengeful was executed the day prior.
Also bg actualy dont stop a kill but simply redirect it so its not as strong as a doctor. So as long as town has the normal level of town power then a one shot strongman and secondary minor role. Then the game will be balanced. I assume the balance is based on bg potentialy getting in the way of the vig and bg getting the way of scum desired kill. With the strong man there to get rid of important townies.

I doubt scum has a bodyguard as it provides no value for them. As they will only exchange one lost scum for another. And its a bit convoluted just for a poor fake claim.

NA NM exe is always a waste here. At this stage you always want the most informative execution. while nm gives no info and only has odds of 1 in 5 to be scum. If we are at elo-1 then thats teh time for executions like NM

[bob3141]

I don't think the arguments for doing it right now in lieu of you are very compelling

why is it not very compelling? what have i said about eliminating N_M first before me isn't true?

I would consider it a very deep insult from me to even consider your town at the moment

If NM is scum you always kill his partners. If you were town you would of focused on your other scum reads.

[bob3141]

No, that's a truism that doesn't make any sense. Where are these partners that we kill and how do we find them?

If N_M is scum, we switch from looking for partners to looking for a lone wolf. Do you THINK I'm N_M's partner? And if so, why not confirm that worldview by killing N_M?

lol ill have to give it to you obviously have good work effic when your scum.

[bob3141]

VOTE: N_M

Let's just remove this distraction earlier rather than later.

No the distraction will be delt with. As others have said its a perfect vig kill and thats why i think HEM wants him dead.


Its why its so so scummy for HEM to even suggest it

[bob3141]

If N_M is scum, what do you think that makes me?
If N_M is scum, who do you think is the sole scum trying to blend in right now?
If N_M is town, who do you think are partners?
If I share my results and my results can be confirmed, how likely is my role town or scum?
If I share my results and I check a bodyguard, how likely is that player town?

First its Not AI
second irreelavant to flippping NA during the day
third no info can be gain from NA exe
forth its impossible for the role to be confirmed
5th sicne your alignment cant eb confirmed neither can theres

[bob3141]

I think it is the hammer

, Not_Mafia, bob3141, Roden, invis, norw and pere

[bob3141]

Pere was bit of foolish execution. What are the odds that scum fake claim bg with the exact gating.

I think the problem was at that invis was listing only to the player that in all cases was scum.

a scum team of hu/pere means that town only had 2 bg with negative gating. 1/2 vig. Thats an absurd low level of town power that it would never pass review

[bob3141]

Hu Tao I dont think you could of done anything to convince invis as sheep managed to talk him into the impossible.

The only thing i could think of was getting invis to elim sheep today. As in that gamestate sheep is always scum even if you wernt town

[bob3141]

Pere was bit of foolish execution. What are the odds that scum fake claim bg with the exact gating.

I think the problem was at that invis was listing only to the player that in all cases was scum.

a scum team of hu/pere means that town only had 2 bg with negative gating. 1/2 vig. Thats an absurd low level of town power that it would never pass review

The BGs are of dubious utility considering the vig, to be honest. That was intentional.

Yep, that why just looking at the claims is all you needed to solve the game if you hadnt already. not enough town power if Hu Tao and pere were scum. should of claimed day 2 but was worried that it would trigger a mass claim.

[bob3141]

Was a nice interestign settup gg

[bob3141]

When game ends those who died or spectated let me know how I could have convinced invis today differently. Also was my soft not good enough? I thought if I made it more obvious I would get night killed. I'd like to improve

nothing you could have done. this daw was invisibility's loss, more than std and sheep's win. i think by yesterday, mafia started playing sloppily. they got really lucky with invis not being open-minded on elo.

that said, i don't understand why day 2 needed my elimination. surprised it was town-driven, but was also warming up to the idea of a {sheep, std} because i was beginning to understand that the uninformed pov naturally scumreads what the hell i was trying to do.

For me it was the AtE. If you had continued like your were in day one i doubt i would of tunneled you at the end. Plus it did help me solve the invis slot as form wagonomics i knew there was atleast 2 scum on t3. And if you were town that meant that invis was also town.

The mistake we made was not mass claiming day 2. As if i had claimed vig and thus a clear. I could have had 2 bg on me night 2 which would have been worse then me just being nk