Open 880 - Mod PT

[Cook]

egoing

[Cook]

hmm. is it too late to errata?

[Cook]

you could disguise it by me editing all the errata'd roles since i don't think i actually edited the thread for them

[Cook]

i'd then post something to the NIM thread saying "in light of a game of this being run, i have updated the roles in the thread that were either not normal or unclear. this is the most recent revision of NIM, and will be used for any games that are run."

that might also count as attempting to influence the game...

hmm. maybe listmod intervention would be helpful

[Cook]

yeah. annoying that we didn't catch that earlier, still gonna say probably let S_S know

[Cook]

yeah that’s good

[Cook]

great, i’ll do that in a few minutes

[Cook]

hmm let's see

cop with false positives
early game but conditionless protective
protective that loses the ability to protect others if it cops one kill or succeeds, or if it gets late
invest/confirm, essentially confirmed townie i think according to the setup
manip/confirm, negative utility but self confirming
effectively killer that will jump in front of its own gun if it shoots town
invest, which is essentially a cop that doesn't serve as the original for the backup and is inno to gsmith
gated manip, albeit a faster one
protective that can die to more or less confirm a scum if it breadcrumbs
named townie

vanilla mafia member
universal backup
universal backup

SK that can live pretty far out with good dayplay

hmm

[Cook]

universal backup is for their team only

oh god

mafia has no chance

they have no power roles against an entire town of PRs

[Cook]

is it too late to reroll i think this is gonna be a slaughterfest for mafia

[Cook]

well alright

let's see if mafia can make a good show of it

[Cook]

If Aureal successfully blocks a kill with the Shield and still has the BP shot, does she survive?

i would assume that's the design of the role. shield seems to basically be reverse bodyguard and bodyguard i think can be doctored so like

probably?

[Cook]

If Aureal successfully blocks a kill with the Shield and still has the BP shot, does she survive?

She would die. BG/shield dying is a separate effect, and not something that can be blocked by BP (or doctor, for that matter).

We should probably make this more clear on the wiki.

"attack" versus "die"

[Cook]

literal magic i tell ya

[Cook]

i ran into this issue before

generally wait before you make the moderator announcement?

[Cook]

i guess?

[Cook]

yeah at this rate SK might lose to being focused by the town sooner than they expected

[Cook]

let's see...



seems right

[Cook]

...this action resolution is going to be a nightmare.

gimme a bit i’ll draw a diagram

[Cook]

still waiting on those last few actions

[Cook]

For the kill (which it is I that should do),

do you think ccs is still mislimmable?

He is probably really the loyal checker tbh, which is basically a cop and can be a problem, but maybe it's possible to keep him around as a credible sk

checks action resolution

doesn't seem super alive right now tbh

[Cook]

i'm not sure if multiple bullet-jumpers all trigger at once or if stacking protections like this causes one to take priority over the other

it's a question of if the kill "happened" or not i guess

otherwise your action resolution looks good

[Cook]

I now realize that I am in over my head and agreeing to mod this setup was probably a mistake.

you got unlucky and are making sure action resolution is smooth

that's leagues ahead of making mod errors

[Cook]

i'm not sure if multiple bullet-jumpers all trigger at once or if stacking protections like this causes one to take priority over the other

it's a question of if the kill "happened" or not i guess

Hmm. I have consulted S_S.

we may have an answer

[Cook]

resolve on that list top-to-bottom

shield is a block not a protect

so shield resolves first, which causes the vig part to fail (consequently causing the bodyguard part to not trigger) and aureal to die having taken the shield

[Cook]

[Cook]

img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... eight=1222[/img

under this one:
camelCasedSnivy gets "Your check succeeded" or however you phrase it
Aureal gets a "Your check succeeded" or however you phrase it
Doctor Drew gets a "Your target has a gun" on Save the Dragons (backups of roles with guns have guns)
Flavor Leaf gets a "BlueSnakelet is aligned with the Town."
usesPython's bulletproof expends a shot.

Aureal dies to shielding the kill.
humaneatingmonkey dies to usesPython's kill.

[Cook]

Do not use this list unless actions are actually in conflict; that is, that both affect each other.

If only one of the actions affects another, resolve that one first, regardless of the positions on the list.

Does this apply though?

both bodyguard and shield interfere with the kill

bodyguard protects the kill's target from harm and then dies as a result

shield stops the killer from killing and then dies as a result

i'd argue they come into conflict because one could plausibly interfere with another resolving properly

i.e. shield might stop the kill from happening in the first place whereas bodyguard protects someone from a successful kill

like the difference between a doctor protecting a target and a roleblocker blocking the killer

who really stopped the kill from going off? the doc or the rb?

[Cook]

i can do vc's if need be

[Cook]

seems right

[Cook]

hmm...

roleblocking creates a bit of an endless paradox if you say "both roleblocks happen"...

you have either two scenarios:
1. the roleblocks mutually roleblock each other. (this results in other actions taken also being roleblocked.)
2. the roleblocks mutually fail due to being roleblocked. (this results in other actions succeeding.)

[Cook]

this should have been in the ruleset tbh we just didn't catch it

there's no consensus on what it does even in normal games, just that it needs to be planned for

[Cook]

and seeing as we're resolving things as if they're normal...

hmm.

you would have had to have made a judgement call already so that there would be something to go back on.

i don't think this is the way of going about it at

all

but saying "if you don't put me in this situation then i won't have to make an arbitrary decision" might fix it

[Cook]

it shouldn't? roleblock is a roleblock, and it's clear from other roles' design that there are situations where they'd be stopped individually (vigi + loyal bodyguard) but that's not a roleblock per se

[Cook]

No response, so I'm just going to answer with #2. I was concerned about undue mod influence, but I don't really think that's avoidable as I have to make some ruling in any case.

sometimes it's all you have. happens to the best of us.

[Cook]

seems right

[Cook]

and that's game! very cool!