[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[DragonEater70]

Had this idea, but I think it becomes unfun and possibly scumsided if scum just bus Day 1 or Day 2:

setup

• 13 Players
  
• 3 Mafia, 10 Town.
  
• Mountainous.
  
• If a townie gets hammered in a 7p ELo (but not in 5p or 3p ELo), then the mafia has to pick 2 members of the mafia to publicly reveal as mafia, and the game goes to Assassination Phase (like in Avalon).
  
• In Assassination Phase, the hammered townie is the assassin, and gets one chance to assassinate the last (unrevealed) mafia member.
  
• If they get it right, Town wins. Otherwise, Town loses.
  
• 5p and 3p ELo are not impacted, so mafia are incentivized to bus before 7p ELo (or play really well in ELo).

Would like ideas on how to improve.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah

I had this idea, if anyone could calculate the EV it would help:

SETUP Version 2

• 13 Players
  
• 3 Mafia, 10 Town.
  
• Mountainous.
  
• If a townie gets hammered in a 7p ELo (but not in 5p or 3p ELo), then the mafia has to pick 2 members of the mafia to publicly reveal as mafia, and the game goes to Assassination Phase (like in Avalon).
  
• In Assassination Phase, the hammered townie is the assassin, and gets one chance to assassinate the last (unrevealed) mafia member.
  
• If they get it right, Town wins. Otherwise, Town loses.
  
• If a townie is hammered in 5p ELo, no mafia is revealed, and the hammered townie has to submit a guess of BOTH living members of the mafia. If correct, town wins, otherwise town loses.
  
• 3p ELo is not affected.

[DragonEater70]

Okay I didn't do the EV for the entire setup (because that's very hard to do manually and I would still appreciate if someone who knows how to automate it did it) but I just checked the EV for 5p ELo (23.33%) and for 7p ELo (24.29%), and I think these seem reasonable considering the usual EVs are 13.3% and 5.7% percent, respectively (and that these are the only things offsetting the setup from a very scumsided 3:10 mountainous).

One funny thing though is that it's actually slightly +EV (25% instead of 23.33%) for town to eliminate town in 7p ELo, which might make it more interesting.

[DragonEater70]

Yep

[DragonEater70]

Hmm I calculated the 5p EV as 1/2 to choose one scum correctly * 1/3 to choose second scum correctly

Are you sure it's 25%? There are more than 4 configurations of 2 out of 4.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah pretty sure town EV if town gets limmed is 1/6 and not 1/4

[DragonEater70]

Wow did I just outmath usesPython

On the same day of out-MafiaScum.netting biancospino

Feels super cool

[DragonEater70]

I tried to look at various scenarios of this in my head and I feel like a lot of the time the optimum strategy would be really unfun either to the maf or to the town, or even both.

I think if you want to have two masonries, you need to make more VTs + more maf, or smaller masonries, for it to work like a game of mafia. Because a proper game of mafia has an uninformed majority but here you're making the majority mostly informed.

[DragonEater70]

Like maybe 4 mafia, 3 masons, 3 masons, 7 VTs with the same masonry guess mechanic could be balanced AND fun to play.

[DragonEater70]

Or 3 mafia, 2 masons, 2 masons, 6 VTs, with same mechanic.

[DragonEater70]

Like maybe 4 mafia, 3 masons, 3 masons, 7 VTs with the same masonry guess mechanic could be balanced AND fun to play.

Idk if this would fill so I'm gonna try and run the 13p setup above first

Sounds like a good idea!

[DragonEater70]

This is inspired by Enchant's game of the same name. The thing is that the previous version wasn't really a game of Mafia, since it didn't have an informed minority (it was uninformed majority vs uninformed minority). This version aims to fix that.

Double Agency Redux

13p

2

Mafia Conspirators

3

Mafia Traitors

2

Town Masons

1

Town PT Cop

5

Vanilla Townies

Traitors ARE informed of the Conspirators, but not of each other. Conspirators are only informed of each other.

At any time before they die, Conspirators and Masons may choose successors. If they are wiped out, and have chosen a successor of their faction, the successor becomes a Conspirator/Mason. If they have chosen a successor of opposite faction, opposite faction wins. Opposite faction also wins if they haven't chosen a successor at time of death.

On odd nights, the Mafia Conspirators have a kill, and on even nights, the town Masons have a kill (I'm not sure of this is an improvement over the system Enchant used for determining who gets to kill, maybe that system should be used instead).

Town is not endgamed if mafia is in majority, and only loses if it's completely eradicated. If game reaches 3p, the faction eliminated on that day loses and the other wins.

[DragonEater70]

Obviously it's impossible if traitors informed about their allies.

You mean about other traitors?

Edit: nvm I just understood what you meant. Yeah it'd be impossible.

[DragonEater70]

I'm actually not sure

There was a game at some point with a higher amount of scum than usual(I think), not sure which game it was (it was probably PicoBlitz or DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue, but maybe it was something else? I'm really not sure because I can't find it at all), and one of the players said "there was a game that Enchant ran in the past where there was a lot of scum and they just ganged up on one player" and then I looked and found the game. But I can't find that post for the life of me.

[DragonEater70]

No, last game the traitors were uninformed

[DragonEater70]

Thinking about a "Cultafia Lite" setup, with 2 Cult members out of 13 players who can recruit one player on night 1, and have a normal nightkill on all other nights. Town will have their PRs assigned randomly AFTER night 1 (the recruit never has a PR). Could such a setup be balanced and fun? What TPRs would work well here?

[DragonEater70]

Good point on the evens/odds.

I'm really not sure what the PRs would be. If I decided to actually make it a closed setup (mini theme), would you be interested in helping design it?

[DragonEater70]

I will note that aside from the survivor issue, the way you phrased wincons, if town is eliminated in f3 the game becomes a stalemate as neither faction can achieve its wincondition.