Kemusan - Game Over

[Spiffeh]

Hi fam, great news!

I rolled town this game so I don’t have to live these next few weeks in a constant state of debilitating anxiety! Don’t we love that for me?

[Spiffeh]

Hi Gypyx, it's been awhile!!!

[Spiffeh]

i'm going to reread holiday dance party and check for similarities/differences between lld there and lld here.

This is a strange thing to announce to the thread, why wouldn't you just make the comparison and report your findings rather than give your meta target warning that you're going to meta them?

[Spiffeh]

I didn’t realize spiffeh joined the game, that absolute sucker.

[Spiffeh]

fferylit, Bell Town
Gypyx, Firebringer probably Town

(But I do this thing with Firebringer where I townread him early based off a couple posts and then fail to reevaluate so I'm not gonna do that this time)

RH9's entrance was pretty bad imo but then he had one post that was fine so who knows? I also like that ffery had this exact same thought process and it makes me feel good about myself (and her).

scum!Cabd knows that he has to come into this thread talking a big game about pairing up with/reading ffery so nothing alignment indicative for him so far. I am happy for them to pair up so they can hold each other accountable and maybe I don't have to try to read Cabd because ffery will catch him first if he's bad.

I want someone to pair up with LLD who will not be easily manipulated by her if she happens to be scum and will be willing to leave the dance if she hasn't caught at least two scum by the final phase. I get that these are high standards and open for reevaluation as the game progresses but I can just see scum!LLD being able to dominate this setup if a few key players are removed and with Cabd/fferylit likely pairing up I'm already paranoid of that. For the record, I currently have a town lean on her.

I don't particularly like fireisredsir's posts and would probably be voting there if this were a standard game but I don't have words for this read rn

I am excited to be playing with you all again/for the first time!

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh that is a surprising amount of sync. Reminds me of WH13.

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

So I am easily manipulated by scum LLD but I think my constant paranoia and fear of her scum game would outweigh anything she could do to me so I am willing to pair with her. I selfishly kind of don't want to because I don't want to be in a position where I end up taking us both out as town due to said paranoia and ruin the game for everyone. But I am good with pairing with her if people think it could be optimal, and she accepts of course.

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have never played this setup before and I'm trash at mechanic-talk, AND I want to ensure everyone's posted and weighed in before making decisions like these, but these are the pairings I've been thinking up in my head:

fferylit/Cabd
Spiffeh/LLD
Ydrasse/someone scummy
Bell/anyone

Assuming all of us were town (statistically unlikely), scum would have some pretty powerhouse pairs to decide on killing and it would ensure at least some people I work well with/trust would be in the game by the last two phases which is what I care about.

[Spiffeh]

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

Also I only answered myself earlier so some other people I'd be cool with pairing with LLD are Firebringer and Bell, maybe Enchant?

[Spiffeh]

I won't be around much the next 24 hours (unless I'm phone posting tonight) so I decided to reread and have honored my promise of reevaluating Firebringer in that he is no longer a townread.

I feel like his scum reads on ffery and Bell may just be for shock value to play into his chaotic town gameplay because it's hard for me to believe that he actually feels that way as they are transparently town to me. And while I don't want to discourage his effort-posting I think he's dipping his toe into exiting troll mode little earlier than I've come to expect from town!FB, but I also haven't been playing games the past two years so what do I know?!

I am side-eyeing a lot of Cabd posts but that's not really unusual, and I am waiting for a certain shoe to drop that may or may not make me feel some type of way about him (it's not that important and I've already devoted more words than necessary to say that Cabd is pretty null)

Upon reread, feeling decent about STD, still not thrilled with the other fire (maybe both Fires are scum!)

I also have a non-LLD dance partner in mind so stay tuned!

[Spiffeh]

Ff is transparently town?

Yeah, you’ll catch up eventually

[Spiffeh]

Can someone explain their fferylit scum read? I’m seeing it so much but still not getting it, what am I missing?

[Spiffeh]

Bell if you had to pick one of the remaining gentleman to leave out of the dance this phase who would it be and why?

Currently catching up on the past twenty-ish pages. I was thinking of asking Gypyx to dance because I'm p. sure she's town and I'm also not particularly concerned with her pulling the wool over my eyes in the long run in the event she is scum, I'll see if this is still a good idea when I've caught up.

[Spiffeh]

Ffery, which of the remaining gentleman would you want to leave out of the dance and why?

[Spiffeh]

Still catching up but isn't it always suboptimal for a town player to leave before intermission UNLESS they are actively scum reading their dance partner?

Cabd/ffery's plan to leave before Intermission while vocally townreading one another is just...unnecessary

These games are literally lost by Town hastily leaving the dance prematurely so can we stop lining that shit up less than 48 hours into the game? Lol

[Spiffeh]

I don’t really have a read on ffer either way but I do feel like scum are positioning around the slot in particular in some way.

Who are the scum you feel are positioning around her?

[Spiffeh]

Yes I want to mega yeet ffery very much still if that wasn't obvious lol

Does Cabd's vocalized plan to exit the dance before Intermission change this at all? It's a little disappointing to me that you read the entire game and the main thing you choose to have an opinion on is a player's alignment that is likely going to resolve itself (against my will).

[Spiffeh]

Currently catching up on the past twenty-ish pages

I was thinking that your last post asking about the ff scumreads seemed sorta random and wk-like
with this as context, ig its fine but im curious if ur ff read will change (also not seeing why u read her as town currently?)

My fferylit townread hasn't really changed but I will concede that I've never seen her as scum and can at least understand more where people are coming from thanks to skitter's and FB's explanations. However, ffery is someone who's town game I respect a lot and feel we work well together so especially now that Cabd/ffery seem intent to just self-resolve before Intermission anyway I'd prefer if her energy was spent scum hunting rather than having to defend herself (which I think is the direction she is going now)

[Spiffeh]

Firebringer has truly run the gamut for me this game and is back to a pretty solid town read, mostly because of his interaction with LLD. I also felt his explanation for his ffery scum read without being asked feels like a townie who thinks he's right and trying to get people to see his perspective. I would expect scum!FB to lean more into his trolly, unhelpful nature as it takes a lot less effort to fake that, but his transition into really fighting to have ffery on everyone's radar was comforting to me.

Cabd's post accepting ffery's dance proposal is probably his towniest its and at this point I don't think scum!Cabd would so confidently vocalize his plan to leave before Intermission if he was just going to back out of it later.

SirCakez's posts were not great but I also think Cakez would try harder to seem town if he were scum? He definitely needs to contribute more substantially at the caliber in which is he is capable because a ffery scum read and a couple of maybe town reads aren't cutting it.

Catching up I was between inviting Gypyx and skitter to be my dance partner, but feel I could be more valuable at sorting Gypyx in a hood than I would skitter. Skitter is probably more capable of meeting my expectations as scum, and while I have only played one game with scum!Gypyx over two years ago, I have some level of confidence that I can sort her in a one on one setting (even though I hate neighborhoods).

Gypyx, may I have this dance?

[Spiffeh]

Of the gentlemen I think I want RCEnigma or LavarManos left out of the dance. The problem is, that seems too easy...

[Spiffeh]

Of the gentlemen I think I want RCEnigma or LavarManos left out of the dance. The problem is, that seems too easy...

I kinda liked LavarManos's iso, though it's sparse and there's a lot of stuff he hasn't really interacted with so far.

To be fair, he’s really just PoE, nothing stood out to me too much about him.

I do find RCEnigma to be talking “around” people to seem present and I really hate the post where he calls you null but says that scum are posturing around your wagon without naming names.

P.S. I’m joining the ranks of the high tonight but I’ll probably fall asleep before 9 PM ET so I hope there will still be people around to high-post with later on!!!

[Spiffeh]

I have to say I’m pretty underwhelmed with my current solve of RCEnigma/SirCakez/Fireisredsir/someone else so I probably need to stop writing people off so early!

[Spiffeh]

@ffery I will go find your post to RCE from last night when I’m back at my computer

@LLD I think the pair I’d most lobby for would be Ydrasse/STD because I think that would be a town/town pair that may not draw a nightkill despite having the IC in it. I would say you/FB or ffery/Cabd but am pretty sure I would want both of those pairs removed before endgame due to paranoia.

[Spiffeh]

I’m honestly also fine with Ydrasse pairing with someone like Enchant because if scum wants to shoot the IC it forces them to remove Enchant who I am finding difficult to read

[Spiffeh]

I have to say I’m pretty underwhelmed with my current solve of RCEnigma/SirCakez/Fireisredsir/someone else so I probably need to stop writing people off so early!

i am also extremely underwhelmed

What specifically are you underwhelmed by? Who do you think I should be scum reading?

[Spiffeh]

I'm here I'm high and I'm HUNTING SCUM (also much less filtered!)

[Spiffeh]

I feel a little worse about skitter after her most recent posts fsr

[Spiffeh]

people can take who they want from pairings

i am of the opinion the most optimal way to play atm is for me to do ... like next to no input until it's necessary from me especially as we get closer to intermission
which is kind of lame because i WAS looking forward to playing/posting more but i think if i did so now i'd make it a bit harder, especially when people are independently figuring out what they wanna do without the Town Opinion of mine warping what mafia think is best

so go ahead if you want a specific partner, take that partner

I'm hoping your contributions aren't relegated to just before the intermission, I don't think you being the IC should stifle how you wanted to play the game and I'd much prefer to have your opinion to work with throughout.

[Spiffeh]

Yeah I just ISO'd LavarManos and there was nothing in it that makes me not ok with that slot dying this phase. I'm good as long as STD and RH7 aren't left behind.

[Spiffeh]

HST is someone I am tonally reading as town but could low-key be scum and someone I'm overlooking

[Spiffeh]

Can you explain specifically what you liked in his ISO?

[Spiffeh]

right now my general read on this game is that there's a lot of gents who i think are likely to be relatively easy miselims (sorry) who i am currently reading as various strengths of leanings of town

im probably wrong on one, maybe two, but it feels to me like a game where there's 3 scum ladies

Which of the ladies are you scumreading currently?

[Spiffeh]

No Firebringer

[Spiffeh]

Good to see you too, it's always fun playing with you Firebringer!

Except when you suspect me so please continue to accurately townread me, ok?

[Spiffeh]

Aw Tenet was a fun one right guys?!

[Spiffeh]

Wow Not Spiffeh really needs to step it up

[Spiffeh]

Cabd when you are being srs I would like you to advise which of the remaining gentlemen you would like to leave behind and why.

[Spiffeh]

Cabd when you are being srs I would like you to advise which of the remaining gentlemen you would like to leave behind and why.

do u think any of them contain scum

I think any of RCEnigma, LavarManos, and Enchant have a chance at flipping scum, but I'm also not super confident in any of them.

I think this will be more of a "find and follow strong town reads, POE the rest" game than a "find scum" game for me

[Spiffeh]

If I had to yolo call it I'd make the final two endgame pairs HST-Bell and Spiffeh-Gypyx and be pretty self-assured we won.

I bet this statement is going to make Spay spit out her liquor.

Why are you town reading HST?

[Spiffeh]

Has anyone experienced scum!Gypyx recently that can weigh in on how they feel about her here? She has exceeded my expectations so far but it's not a townread I'm married to.

[Spiffeh]

It's already past my bedtime so I don't how much longer I'll be active here just an fyi!

[Spiffeh]

I can typically hold my own as scum, I would just be VERY intimidated and self-conscious had I rolled scum in this playerlist specifically.

[Spiffeh]

No I promise I would have HATED to roll scum here

Kinda like how Cakez hates that he rolled scum here

[Spiffeh]

I'll do the people I know

I would hate rolling scum
Cakez would hate rolling scum
Gypyx would hate rolling scum
ffery would dislike rolling scum
Bell would dislike rolling scum
skitter would be fine with rolling scum
STD would be fine with rolling scum
Cabd would be fine with rolling scum
Ydrasse would like rolling scum
FB would like rolling scum
LLD would LOVE rolling scum

[Spiffeh]

Nah I think I'm right

[Spiffeh]

I don't know, I was wondering when/why you stopped town reading me...

[Spiffeh]

I'm still fairly certain you're town and that's never really changed, I was just curious as to the reasons people were scum reading you as I was worried I was missing something.

Actually, I thought your response to Bell in 1311 felt very genuine, and don't think as scum you would start accusing me when I am one of the few actively calling you town right now (even though you seem to be interpreting it differently)

So if anything I'm actually more confident that you are town at this juncture.

[Spiffeh]

I am actually v interested in ur reads

not nearly enough data but slightly lean scummy:
[LLD, cabd, gypyx, rce]

kinda scummy:
[firebringer]

i don't think i would necessarily say that firebringer is my strongest scumread but that may be because im not sure that i have a solid scumread anywhere. previously it was spiffeh for a while but now im less sure on that

I understand that your reads list is probably rightfully not really considering this, but how do you reconcile having Cabd and FB so low when they've both vocally and confidently claimed they will be leaving the dance at some point before endgame? This is something I'd really only expect from town as scum can easily be held accountable for statements like these. Is this something that's reflected in your read on them, or does this not really matter to you?

[Spiffeh]

-mindmelding with fire on his spiffeh scumread. idt I caught on to why exactly fire has that read
fmpov tho, spiffeh had a very analytical opening that I liked, but he's fallen off a lot since in terms of depth of analysis. Also, idt he ever explained why he townreads ff, which looks really bad if ff were to flip town

My fferylit townread is something I've explained a couple times, albeit nothing super substantial until recently in my post 1318 (sorry idk how to link posts anymore).

What about my interaction with the fferylit suspicion specifically makes you think that I "look bad" if she flips town? This feels a little like you're trying to line me up to take the fall in the event that she flips town upon leaving the dance, which feels a little bad given you've mischaracterized how I've handled that read. Would I look bad if someone like STD flipped town? That is actually a town read I haven't really substantiated yet, so I'm a little confused as to why you're assigning badness to me wrt ffery's town flip and not the potential town flips of the slots that actually fit your stated criteria?

I don't particularly hate too much of LavarManos' content other than the above, but there's also nothing in there that makes me desperately need to save that slot from being left behind this phase.

I would also be interested in hearing Ydrasse's thoughts on her final four (?) potential pairings and which she most wants to be left behind.

[Spiffeh]

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

[Spiffeh]

I don't have much of a read on Enchant but I will say that of everyone his entrance seemed the most desperate to lock in a pairing early, which is kind of how I expected scum to approach this game. I haven't really sensed any desperation from him recently though, and I'd expect scum to become more and more anxious to pair as the options start being limited.

I also kind of agree with whoever said that RCE not really trying to lock in a pair for himself doesn't quite align with him being scum.

I'm wondering if this is just something I just shouldn't take into consideration because I don't feel like thinking too hard about it

[Spiffeh]

No

Firebringer

skitter

[Spiffeh]

I understand that your reads list is probably rightfully not really considering this, but how do you reconcile having Cabd and FB so low when they've both vocally and confidently claimed they will be leaving the dance at some point before endgame? This is something I'd really only expect from town as scum can easily be held accountable for statements like these. Is this something that's reflected in your read on them, or does this not really matter to you?

Not to step in for fire but.

I think you’re ignoring that slots like Cabd,FB,LLD, don’t have a high probability end game route as either alignment. If we can agree on that, an extra phase is a lot more valuable to any of those slots as scum than as town.

Just as a general hypothetical, if you were scum that knew you were exiting what would your play be?

If I were scum I would never actually exit the dance. I may talk a big game about it to look town, but I wouldn't ever actually leave because a one for one trade as scum (assuming I'm not in a dual-scum pair in your hypothetical) is never worth it from what I can tell.

[Spiffeh]

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

Do u think cabd should be townreading you and gypyx so strongly?

Nope, not to the level of calling us both locktown and calling for us to last until endgame so early.

However, I can see town!Cabd strongly townreading both myself and Gypyx INITIALLY based on what we have presented to the thread so far. Gypyx specifically is like night and day from her scum game in Tenet, where scum buddies Cabd and LLD and sometimes the rest of us had to coach her through many of her posts to avoid getting her eliminated and clearing half of the game (lol Tenet game mechanics).

But that was over two years ago and I think Cabd should be able to recognize that people can improve meta changes.

[Spiffeh]

I understand that your reads list is probably rightfully not really considering this, but how do you reconcile having Cabd and FB so low when they've both vocally and confidently claimed they will be leaving the dance at some point before endgame? This is something I'd really only expect from town as scum can easily be held accountable for statements like these. Is this something that's reflected in your read on them, or does this not really matter to you?

in my experience, scum will claim this all the time in dance games because they know that people expect only town will do this. i think generally in dances there ends up being too many people who say this sort of thing (some of them being town) for it to be reasonably held accountable. especially when there's what you might call "power pairings", it's almost a given that people will make that sort of threat, town or scum. it doesn't really affect my read on them

This is valid and I should probably treat it as NAI tbh

[Spiffeh]

For me the spiffeh thing has less to do with how i think he'd behave as scum, and more to do with some of his recent posting, namely:

- kinda don't understand his gypyx trajectory, or how he became that confident in town-her
- cabd declaring them a high confidence tvt pair made me go ... huh?
- ffery townread almost feels white-knight-y
-

Gypyx's carefree posting here contradicts how I expect her to behave as scum in this playerlist based entirely on my one time playing with her as her scumbuddy in Tenet. Yes I recognize it's a very low sample size, but in Tenet my recollection is that she was scared to even post as scum and needed someone from our team (Cabd, LLD, etc.) to review and edit her posts. Her initial posts in this game struck me as town because they seemed genuine and worry-free, which isn't something I've seen from her before.

I'd also expect her to try to get on Cabd's good side ASAP, not scum read him from jump (unless she and Cabd were scum together, I guess) and risk drawing Cabd's focus immediately, someone who has had an intimate look at her scum game previously.

I have a couple of other comments regarding Gypyx, but I'm not looking to reveal these at this point.

As for ffery, she's just hit all the notes I expect her to hit as town. I feel we've shared a lot of similar reads/noticed the same things and given she is someone I work well with, that was encouraging to me. I don't think she has much reason to begin vocally suspecting me as scum when I am one of the few actively town reading her.

[Spiffeh]

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

Do u think cabd should be townreading you and gypyx so strongly?

Nope, not to the level of calling us both locktown and calling for us to last until endgame so early.

However, I can see town!Cabd strongly townreading both myself and Gypyx INITIALLY based on what we have presented to the thread so far. Gypyx specifically is like night and day from her scum game in Tenet, where scum buddies Cabd and LLD and sometimes the rest of us had to coach her through many of her posts to avoid getting her eliminated and clearing half of the game (lol Tenet game mechanics).

But that was over two years ago and I think Cabd should be able to recognize that people can improve meta changes.

Ok so:
* given that cabd is townreading her so strongly, what does that say to you abt his alignment
* why are *you* townreading her ao strongly

Cabd is always overdramatic and I feel his declaration that our pair should be locktown for the rest of the game is NAI.

I also think you are overestimating how strongly I'm townreading Gypyx. I have indeed provided my reasons for town reading her overall, but the fact that she's been AWOL ever since I stated my intention to dance with her is not lost on me. That's what our neighborhood is for.

[Spiffeh]

Was anyone not townreading Spiffeh or something

This reminds me. Can people explain why they are town reading HST?

While the quoted post truly sets her apart as a prestigious mafia player, I am not yet seeing why she's so universally townread.

[Spiffeh]

Was anyone not townreading Spiffeh or something

This reminds me. Can people explain why they are town reading HST?

While the quoted post truly sets her apart as a prestigious mafia player, I am not yet seeing why she's so universally townread.

I feel like her posts are pretty transparently town tonally, motivationally, everything. What reason do you have to not think she is town?

No specific reason, just no reason to write her off as town like a lot people seem to be doing.

I think many players thought her asking Bell the role PM confirmation question made her town and I don't find that alignment indicative in the slightest.

Cakez, do you have any scum reads other than ffery at the moment? If so, can you elaborate on those a little bit (or point me to where you've already done so?)

P.S. I'm going to be catching up on my phone for the next hour or so but will be back later this evening for some more ~high~ posting to honor what we've built here.

[Spiffeh]

Despite my paranoia reads list (which you don't get to see atm), I like some recent Skitter posts.

Can you tell me what you like about skitter?

[Spiffeh]

how do u feel about enchant this game?

ok i had in my brain that there were things that i felt were towny from enchant but i reread iso and there's basically nothing actually

807 and 808 are like a tiny bit towny coming from enchant imo but thats like it

so idk actually i think id most prefer to leave enchant out right now. they were way townier in new years dance (and did actually end up getting paired at the end): viewtopic.php?t=90239&user_select%5B%5D=35064

I get the feel that ur backtracking from an enchant townread that you never rlly declared in the first place

And ur post sorta feels all over the place with u first saying there's basically nothing towny from enchant, then quoting two minimally AI posts as towny, and then finally saying that you prefer enchant to actually be the one left out

this feels very weirdly uncharitable

i have expressed that there were things i found towny from enchant (1200, 1353), but even if i hadn't, why is it scummy to show a progression from a read that hadn't been previously stated?

and "all over the place" is a nothing statement when it's like very clear that i am pointing out that the only things i see as towny from enchant add up to very little and so therefore there's no reason to townread them. the three things you are framing as different are all along the same line of thought

I agree with this

[Spiffeh]

fwiw fire, i feel p good about u rn and bad about ff. 765 pings of possible TMI

I'm also curious
Cabd, how much of u accepting ff's proposal is u actually townreading her compared to linking up w/ an old buddy in the hopes that she's also town and that yall could have fun solving together

Currently catching up on the past twenty-ish pages

I was thinking that your last post asking about the ff scumreads seemed sorta random and wk-like
with this as context, ig its fine but im curious if ur ff read will change (also not seeing why u read her as town currently?)

LavarManos, can you explain if your read on fferylit changed between these two posts and if so what made you change your mind?

In the first, you explain that ffery looks bad to you, but in the second you mention that it looks like I'm white knighting her (and double down on that thought later on).

This opinion doesn't really align with your stated read, so it just feels like you're trying to take a potshot at me to look busy.

[Spiffeh]

-mindmelding with fire on his spiffeh scumread. idt I caught on to why exactly fire has that read
fmpov tho, spiffeh had a very analytical opening that I liked, but he's fallen off a lot since in terms of depth of analysis. Also, idt he ever explained why he townreads ff, which looks really bad if ff were to flip town

My fferylit townread is something I've explained a couple times, albeit nothing super substantial until recently in my post 1318 (sorry idk how to link posts anymore).

I looked back at 1318, and I still don't see anything substantial. And in that post, ur only concrete reason for townreading ff was only from something she said in 1311? That makes no sense to me given you've practically been calling ff town from the start of the game.
So why were you so confident at the start because aorn ur tr on her just seems like a phantom read

What about my interaction with the fferylit suspicion specifically makes you think that I "look bad" if she flips town?

As I said, it feels like you've been townreading her with nothing to back it up, which just is classic wk behavior

wrt to what you said about ur std read spiffeh, it seems like everyone just seems to view std as town (which he very well may be!). but it's mostly just you who was defending ff which is why that caught my eye

Still wondering why people tr std btw

I reviewed LavarManos' entire ISO and while there is a ton of interaction with fferylit compared to other players, I don't see any other analysis or opinions on her alignment after calling her scum, yet he devotes multiple posts to painting me as a white knight which would imply he thinks she's town?

For someone who was so eager for me to share my reasons for town reading fferylit, I don't understand the trajectory with his read on her and it just looks like he's lining me up to take the fall when ffery ends up flipping town.

Of the remaining gentlemen, I want LavarManos left behind.

[Spiffeh]

I also kind of just resent my read on fferylit is even being labeled as a white-knight and that's just now universally accepted by everyone? Lol

Like yes I know I said she was transparently town super early on and it wasn't super substantiated at that time. Welcome to all of my town reads ever?

[Spiffeh]

Because it's annoying, and feels like scum (LavarManos) are perpetuating the idea to make me look bad.

[Spiffeh]

Because it's annoying, and feels like scum (LavarManos) are perpetuating the idea to make me look bad.

How are u reading me now?

I am leaning town on you now, but have gone back and forth on you throughout the game. I felt good about your post thinking scum are already paired, and that attitude matches up with your pressure on ffery and how you've been pushing me to substantiate my townread on Gypyx.

The way you've approached and engaged me feels like town trying to ascertain if the pings I've apparently set off for you mean something more. LavarManos, like fireisred implied recently, feels like they are choosing things to nitpick and go after to look like they have an opinion. Painting me as a white-knight for ffery does not jive with how he was viewing the game state at that time (at least from what he presented to the thread).

[Spiffeh]

HST what do you think of LavarManos?

[Spiffeh]

LavarManos, can you explain if your read on fferylit changed between these two posts and if so what made you change your mind?

I def didn't like her initial couple of posts and I still don't rlly. But I still at least consider the possibility that she's town in which case ur beginning read feels bad.
It looks like ur trying to frame that as a meta thing which I would have no clue about, so if unsubstantiated early townreads is ur thing, then ig that's cool

Outside of myself and ffery, do you have any other scum reads? Of the remaining gentlemen, who do you most want to be left behind?

[Spiffeh]

Hey Cabd do you want to like

engage with the game in any meaningful way?

[Spiffeh]

That sounds meaner than intended

I just think if your goal is to hero-solve before intermission like you're claiming, you'd want to actually have some input on who should be left behind today?

[Spiffeh]

Can you talk to me more about your Gypyx townread? Do you still feel as confident there given she's gone MIA ever since we paired up?

[Spiffeh]

Quick, everyone lock in an officially official guess as to mine and ffery's alignments, no take-backsies. Accuracy will be graded postgame.

Town/Town

And when you guys leave the dance they will call me a white knight and come after me and Gypyx afterwards

[Spiffeh]

And yes I am town reading Cabd again, idc what anyone thinks about it

[Spiffeh]

Hi I needed to get high immediately after work because it was just that kind of day

LLD I’m loving your energy keep it up (even though we disagree about a lot)

[Spiffeh]

I literally just thought “aww I wish Pooky was in this game”

And then realized he was the host

[Spiffeh]

Ugh now I'm so curious

[Spiffeh]

Can’t we leave Lavar out and pair up everyone else?

[Spiffeh]

I get town also wants to not get left behind and there aren't many options left but he really jumped at the opportunity to pair up as soon as someone explicitly said they would accept his request, despite not really discussing pair up options beforehand. Lol maybe I'm tunneled but he just looks like scum to me.

[Spiffeh]

I wanna leave Lavar out. With ECe a close second.

Inexplicably I want enchant to live.

X

[Spiffeh]

I agree with all of the words in your post, Bell

Hence, the ‘X’

[Spiffeh]

Ffery and Cabd are town/town

Does that count even though I already said it?

[Spiffeh]

I feel like I’ve said all my hot takes already (HST maybe not town, I don’t want Enchant left behind, etc.)

And even those I don’t have much conviction in

I’ll try to think of one for you, I’m probably due to read some ISO’s because I think I’m stagnating

[Spiffeh]

Can the hot take be I wish Ydrasse was more engaged? I do get that she may want to let the pairings occur naturally, but am hoping that she step it up a bit when we exit the pairing phase

(Also no shade to you Ydrasse I’m sure you will deliver in the next phase!)

[Spiffeh]

Hi I needed to get high immediately after work because it was just that kind of day

LLD I’m loving your energy keep it up (even though we disagree about a lot)

Then chat with me friendo, tell me where we disagree and see if you can't convince me otherwise or if I can bring you around to my side.

I need people to help me enact my plan either way or it just won't happen sooooooooooooooooo, let's fuckin' chat b'y

Of the remaining options at the time of your pseudo-solve, I think Enchant is the towniest of all of them. Where I have felt pretty bad about some of Lavar and RCEnigma's posts, I feel like Enchant just doesn't give a fuck and I feel like scum would really start giving a fuck if they were so widely preferred as the person to be left out of the dance. While he's not the most verbose or engaged I just get a townie vibe from his posts that I don't get from Lavar or RCEnigma.

However, I also won't care THAT much if Enchant is left behind because beyond town-pings here and there from his one liners I don't expect to be able to meaningfully sort him based on his play style and he will have to be PoE'd eventually. I just think there are bigger fish to fry (aka Lavar).

I think both Cabd and ffery are town currently. Ffery more than Cabd, but several of Cabd's recent posts felt good to me. Part of me wants to fight for their survival because I am kind of just appalled at the number of scum reads each of them have garnered and part of me also wants to stop trying to sort them because that pairing will likely be resolved by next phase no matter what and it wouldn't be worth the effort.

I think this ship has already sailed but I also disagree with the concept of a lady purposefully not pairing to remove two gentelemen. The less people that are removed in the pairing phase, the better. I'd rather see how everyone interacts and votes during the next phase and make further decisions from there when we're actually forced to have an opinion other than who to pair with.

Can you elaborate a little more on your RH9 scum read? He pinged me a bit early on but then he had like one good sounding post and I've admittedly been ignoring him ever since. He is one of the first few I plan to ISO whenever I get around to that, mostly because his post volume and density does not seem unbearable to trudge through.

[Spiffeh]

I'm really not in a position to give out more town reads but I think SirCakez is town after all.

[Spiffeh]

Maybe I wrote off STD too early? He is killing it if he is scum though

[Spiffeh]

Town - Ydrasse, Bell, Firebringer, fferylit, SirCakez
Hopefully Town but also I'm bad at mafia - STD, LLD, skitter, Cabd

Everyone else - Everyone else

[Spiffeh]

Why Cakez
lol idk if i can propose to fireisred without forcing that read rn

Don't you think there's value in pairing up with her anyway because you would have her life in your hands, especially since you're scum reading her?

Also I'd like to say that if you are town I'm sorry for being a bit hard on you this phase I just have no real other scum read other than maybe fireisred? So at least we agree there!

[Spiffeh]

I didn't even consider that lol

[Spiffeh]

Town - Ydrasse, Bell, Firebringer, fferylit, SirCakez
Hopefully Town but also I'm bad at mafia - STD, LLD, skitter, Cabd

Everyone else - Everyone else

Is there a reason you're not townreading HST?

No actually. I think I'm coming around it but she will be one of the ISO's I delve into the next couple days to lock in a read there.

[Spiffeh]

I'm really not in a position to give out more town reads but I think SirCakez is town after all.

What changed your mind here?

This game, you're not trying too hard to look like you're trying hard like I would expect you to as scum.

The specific moment I started feeling this way was here:

*pollutes game environment wildly*

I think scum!SirCakez who has been largely absent throughout the game and already on his back foot doesn't take the time for a jokey, nothing post like this with no other content. I think as scum you would try to emulate a carefree attitude but fill out your posts with something that could be considered content, rather than make a silly comment that doesn't state opinions or take *effort*.

The lack of caring about how you come across is something I don't see in your scum game typically.

[Spiffeh]

@ffery can you update me on your Cabd read? I get if you don't want to reveal much and just sort him in the neighborhood but I am curious about your perspective on him.

[Spiffeh]

HST's reaction to the "scum slip" is incredibly town, btw

[Spiffeh]

Bell can you devote some words to your ffery scum read?

[Spiffeh]

Eh I’m still good with leaving Lavar behind, although I agree that that wasn’t a scum slip.

Cabd pointing it out and dipping with no further commentary makes me feel a little icky though?

[Spiffeh]

Ew school is the worst my condolences

[Spiffeh]

He is like my most confident scum read even though I'm really not all that confident lol

And I'm leaning town on Enchant

[Spiffeh]

Of the remaining options at the time of your pseudo-solve, I think Enchant is the towniest of all of them. Where I have felt pretty bad about some of Lavar and RCEnigma's posts, I feel like Enchant just doesn't give a fuck and I feel like scum would really start giving a fuck if they were so widely preferred as the person to be left out of the dance. While he's not the most verbose or engaged I just get a townie vibe from his posts that I don't get from Lavar or RCEnigma.

However, I also won't care THAT much if Enchant is left behind because beyond town-pings here and there from his one liners I don't expect to be able to meaningfully sort him based on his play style and he will have to be PoE'd eventually. I just think there are bigger fish to fry (aka Lavar).

[Spiffeh]

I’ve been trying my best until recently

[Spiffeh]

I can’t believe you picked Enchant what the heck FIR

[Spiffeh]

Um can we chill?

[Spiffeh]

Hi

I’m actually weary of HST (not Bell) only because I expected that pair to die but I guess scum prioritizing a pair that includes the IC makes sense.

I also have some words regarding Gypyx that I will devote time to when I’m not phone-posting

[Spiffeh]

Cabd trusted his game to someone in the overall town PoE. At least one, maybe two.
The plan to have enchant and cabd suicide to deny info means that people who tried to protect Enchant from being left out of the dance by me are majorly suspect.

I did exactly this, yet Firebringer said that you and him think myself and Gypyx should be an endgame pair.

Can you explain?

[Spiffeh]

Ok so about Gypyx

Gun to my head I still think she's town, BUT paranoia is setting in with me for several reasons and maybe she will be able to address these concerns here in front of everyone AND I can get some feedback on how others are feeling about her currently.

She says in the thread early on that she wants to pair with someone who talks a lot, implying that she would be super active in the neighborhood when it was unlocked, but then chooses to take a break from the game right when Intermission starts (she told me she needed a break at the start of Intermission). To be fair, she still answered my questions and provided insights of her own, and Intermission was shorter than I thought it would be, but she did not contribute to the level I expected based on her early comments. She was largely inactive for the last half of the day so what exactly did she need to take a break from?

Also, of all the players capable of coaching Gypyx and urging her to be active, Cabd was the one I was most worried about flipping scum. He (and LLD) took the reigns in Tenet when Gypyx wanted our scum team to review her posts and I can see him coaching her in the same way here. And since scum clearly meticulously planned out their actions ahead of time based on how First Dance went down, I'm also a bit skeptical about her Cabd scum read that came out of nowhere early on. My paranoid mind reads it as a ploy to make her look even better when Cabd inevitably flipped.

On the other hand, given how planned out the scum team's actions felt in First Dance, I would expect Cabd would have left specific instructions to interact with me enough to make me feel comfortable to not leave the dance. So the other part of me thinks scum!Gypyx would have provided a TON of content in the neighborhood. Especially since I had already outright stated that I town read her when she's naturally active and that was fading as the day was ending.

So I'd be curious to hear others' thoughts on Gypyx.

[Spiffeh]

Rce/cakez - gun to head town but i'm not betting the game on it

Std - i guess town

Can you go into more detail on each of these?

[Spiffeh]

Also I would like to point out that I don't think we're in as awful a position as some of us may feel right now

Cabd and Enchant were pretty dead to rights early on and while their swift exits felt more like them enacting a plan than feeling hopeless, I think they were probably prioritizing ending the First Dance immediately because people like SirCakez, Gypyx (assuming they are town here) who were largely absent for much of the game at that time would have just become more obviously town if First Dance dragged on.

I'm not necessarily married to the idea that scum ended First Dance early because they have someone poised to endgame us.

The only real thing we lost is more content from fferylit and Ydrasse which is a blow but not something insurmountable imo. Had fire paired with Lavar instead of Enchant, that would have been a mis-lim waiting to happen anyway.

Not sure if this post was that necessary to make but let's keep our heads up fam!

[Spiffeh]

honestly think the last scum are just in:
Skitter/STD and Cakez/RCE

This is where I'm at too, along with my outside paranoia of HST and Gypyx.

Although I think it's RCE over Cakez. I'm undecided between skitter and STD.

And LLD could always be scum I guess but thankfully that seems to be something that will resolve itself and I don't even have to think about it!

[Spiffeh]

I'm sad I never got the Ydrasse content I was promised

[Spiffeh]

for the record while i'm not actively doubtful of spiffeh i'm a bit wary in that he wasn't really bleeding town feelings to me in the hood

I'm curious what exactly you expected of me in the neighborhood and what I didn't deliver on? Did you have "bleeding town" feelings of me before Intermission?

[Spiffeh]

Um I fucked up that quote somehow

@Gypyx I'm curious what exactly you expected of me in the neighborhood and what I didn't deliver on? Did you have "bleeding town" feelings of me before Intermission?

[Spiffeh]

Cabd trusted his game to someone in the overall town PoE. At least one, maybe two.
The plan to have enchant and cabd suicide to deny info means that people who tried to protect Enchant from being left out of the dance by me are majorly suspect.

I did exactly this, yet Firebringer said that you and him think myself and Gypyx should be an endgame pair.

Can you explain?

You seem eager though to tell me who did and didn't refute my Enchant should be left out assertions.

Wanna do the research for me and tell me what you find? Since you're eager.

Not really, I just remember how I felt about the Lavar/Enchant choice so Firebringer mentioning that you thought Gypyx and myself should be an endgame pair sketched me out a bit and didn't align with what you said there.

Your explanation makes sense though!

I actually haven't even read the end of the Day super in depth yet because I didn't realize Intermission only lasted 24 hours and planned to do it overnight lol

[Spiffeh]

And yeah I get one shot to find a scum and I only reload if I get a headshot so I might be a little insufferable for a bit with thread presence and sounding like I run shit. Apologies in advance to everyone else.

I'm actually completely willing to sheep you today for three reasons:

1. I vocally disagreed with your scum reads yesterday and actively lobbied for Enchant to be paired to our detriment (somewhat?) so I feel bad about that.
2. If FB's leaving the dance if we don't hit scum immediately, I want to give you the opportunity to be right again and "save yourself"
3. Most of my opinions were wrong yesterday so a way to avoid further culpability in fucking up again is just blindly following your lead!

[Spiffeh]

... Actually I need to go reread Tenet.

I’m curious to know what you find from this!

[Spiffeh]

oh baby can't wait to get lit and solve this game after work

Omg DO IT

I'm high rn so we could do some REAL DAMAGE together

[Spiffeh]

Oh jeez I don't know if I can stay up that late

[Spiffeh]

Genuinely I think we have to win this game because I feel vaguely insulted.

How so?

[Spiffeh]

if cabd did any of his hw i would think he would advise LLD not to dance with me tbh

I agree with this actually

[Spiffeh]

Hi Bell who are you leaning towards eliminating this phase?

[Spiffeh]

My read on RCE is improving toward a town read.
I dunno where they suddenly found motivation for this game tho.

Can you explain what about RCE's posts this Day have you leaning town on him now?

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh Bell Firebringer SirCakez

So you see my dilemma

I feel like even Cakez I’m not all that confident about tbh but RCE is the bigger problem in that pairing imo

I mentioned this in the neighborhood but I am not a huge fan of skitter’s stated reason for town reading STD, especially at this point in the game where it’s time to be critical as fuck of your partner

I also just disagree with her reasoning? I don’t find Cabd mentioning STD as someone who could coach Gypyx all that alignment indicative and don’t understand why she thinks they are unaligned because of that

I do have to go back and reread the full exchange which I haven’t done yet, but I am interested in skitter’s promised return tonight so maybe we can hash that out (if I’m around and sober…)

[Spiffeh]

I also am maybe overly paranoid rn because I expected to catch some heat today due to the prevalence of the “white knighting ffery” accusation from the pairing phase and that has pretty much dematerialized and while we love that for me, is it because scum sees an easier opportunity to mis-elim skitter/STD?

Bell hold my hand and tell me it’s gonna be ok pls

[Spiffeh]

Do we really just lose if we run out of time? I thought Second Dance goes on forever until one side achieves their WC

[Spiffeh]

Actually the setup does say that each dance phase lasts seven days.

@mod can you advise what happens if neither faction achieves their WC by the time Second Dance ends?

[Spiffeh]

I'm kinda at the point where I just wanna assume Gypyx and HST are town and just systematically eliminate everyone else, starting with skitter/STD.

Bell feel free to say a lot of words, maybe that will encourage people to get in here and do things.

[Spiffeh]

Oh fuck then yeah maybe we should get moving

[Spiffeh]

I am setting an alarm for about 12 hours from now and will be voting for skitter/STD when it goes off.

[Spiffeh]

bell if i could hit a "townspew" button on command i think i would do it

like shit, tf you want me to say? i just don't have it, sorry

i assume you're looking for something in specific or something but like it's very annoying to face from my POV and the thoughts just aren't comming

For what it's worth Bell I think scum!Gypyx tries to give you exactly what you want here to get on your good side rather than pushing back in what feels like genuine frustration that your ask is unrealistic

Like Gypyx probably seeks out an extended engagement with someone here so she can try to quell any existing paranoia if she's the designated endgame scum

[Spiffeh]

Below is my elimination priority at this juncture. Obviously open to re-evaluating with good arguments against this or unexpected flips:

STD/skitter -> SirCakez/RCEnigma -> Firebringer/LLD

Happy to swap the last two pairs in the event STD/skitter is Town/Town

[Spiffeh]

HST is still my biggest worry with the Bell/HST Spiffeh/Gypyx endgame plan, so Bell if you could go into detail on why you're so certain this is town!HST, that would be helpful!

[Spiffeh]

If it makes you feel better I am willing to switch LLD/FB to the next priority if you and STD both flip town.

[Spiffeh]

Skitter can you explain the HST scum read or point out some posts you’ve made previously where you’ve done so?

[Spiffeh]

You previously had a scum read on me for most of pairing phase and seemed to at least be willing to consider that possibility at the start of the Second Dance too. Why am I now (hesitantly) one of your top four town reads? What changed to propel me higher on your reads list?

[Spiffeh]

I’m hoping we get some grand explanation from Bell and HST on wanting to vote Gypyx right now because I have come to the opposite conclusion!

[Spiffeh]

And I say that because I want you to convince me why I’m wrong, not because I’m locked into my Gypyx townread.

[Spiffeh]

Bell/HST who is the town/town pairing you want to endgame with if not myself and Gypyx?

[Spiffeh]

Welp that’s a bummer

[Spiffeh]

aight std flips red cool

Can you explain why you thought this was going to happen when STD was the one who chose to leave the dance?

Also, which of the two remaining pairs are town/town in your opinion?

[Spiffeh]

Also, which of the two remaining pairs are town/town in your opinion?

I meant to say which of the FOUR remaining pairs are town/town obvi

And I'd like for everyone to answer this question, not just Gypyx.

[Spiffeh]

Can someone confirm if my understanding is correct that we have one more town/town mis-elim left before the point of no return?

Or do we need to hit scum from here on out?

(Assuming the remaining scum are in pairs with town)

[Spiffeh]

This is why games like these should not be left up to me lol

[Spiffeh]

Part of me thinks STD and RCE just yeeted themselves so they wouldn’t have to make any hard decisions

And I’m envious that they thought of it first

[Spiffeh]

Part of me thinks STD and RCE just yeeted themselves so they wouldn’t have to make any hard decisions

And I’m envious that they thought of it first

ngl i'm trying really hard to convince myself to not do the same

If you're town definitely do not do this.

If you're scum, go for it!

[Spiffeh]

I want to give LLD the full opportunity I promised her to kill scum.
She has one more chance right now to kill a scum and she lost one already when RCE/Cakez left.

She better come back in and solve this game for me or she dies in 3 days anyways.

Yall can wait.

I mean if she's scum she just convinces everyone to condense onto the remaining T/T pair, right?

Isn't this exactly what you were trying to avoid? I'm obviously not advocating for you to leave any time soon given the situation we're in now, but I thought the whole purpose of you pairing with her was to ensure she had no opportunity to endgame. We are no longer have the luxury of giving LLD a free elimination of the remaining pairs. I am definitely willing to have her post and hear her out, but really not sure what position she could take that would make me want any other pair dead at this point, to be transparent.

RCE leaving for no reason kind of screws us in that regard.

[Spiffeh]

Why must it come down to this?

[Spiffeh]

Bell I would like your extensive responses on two things:

1. Explain your earlier vote for Gypyx and why you changed your tune when skitter/STD flipped town/town.
2. In depth analysis on your thoughts on HST right now

[Spiffeh]

And when I say "right now" I mean currently. Not that you need to provide your answer immediately

I am intending to rush anyone now that the fat has been trimmed (against our will)!

[Spiffeh]

I am NOT intending to rush anyone*

[Spiffeh]

Bell at this point I'm looking at this game as something we are going to solve together.

Obviously you need to do your own work to reassure yourself about me, but I am fairly certain you are town here and it feels fruitless to reevaluate that at this point. My goal is to figure out if this was scum!Gypyx being coached by Cabd and LLD throughout the game as a long con, or if my wishy-washy not-town read of HST was right all along.

At this moment I am leaning towards HST being the remaining scum, but I am not at all confident in that currently. I plan to reread some shit as well to hopefully get to the bottom of it or find some sort of smoking gun that will help one way or the other.

[Spiffeh]

@Gypyx and @HST, obviously also curious to hear who you think is the remaining scum!

[Spiffeh]

Gypyx do you have any completed scum games after Tenet?

[Spiffeh]

If I had to yolo call it I'd make the final two endgame pairs HST-Bell and Spiffeh-Gypyx and be pretty self-assured we won.

I bet this statement is going to make Spay spit out her liquor.

We have found ourselves in the exact endgame scum!Cabd foretold

I hate that we've given him what he wanted regardless of the outcome

[Spiffeh]

Cabd why are u so confident on gypyx-town?

Wait, seriously?

I genuinely thought this would be a universal town read.

She's like, so transparently town that she's seeing the doctor due to ongoing green colored shits. (I recommend fiber)

374 is my biggest sticking point though! The way in which she immediately and urgently jumps down Turtle's throat for a read on me (which hey, there's no ACTUAL guarantee that Spay and I nuke ourselves and don't make town do it) puts her right in the forefront of the conversation about two players who, if she's mafia and my call on spay is right, are ABSOLUTELY going to be having their reads listened to after death?

That's a take no prisoners town approach and I am HERE for it.

This post was made after Cabd is paired with widely scum-read fferylit, LLD is paired with Firebringer who has already announced he will be leaving the dance before she can endgame, and Enchant is potentially being left out of the dance with a lot of stated suspicion on that slot. My question is, does scum!Cabd really town case his final scumbuddy at this point? If Gypyx is the ONLY designated deep scum, would he really go out of his way to do this when it could potentially sketch people out about Gypyx and backfire?

The answer is: I have no fucking clue. I think scum!Cabd is capable of anything and I also think he would expect to reasonably depend on scum!LLD to set up their final scumbuddy for endgame, so I wouldn't rule it out.

But this is something I wanted to bring up in case others had thoughts on it (particularly Bell).

[Spiffeh]

I do also want to take a lot of associations with flipped scum with a grain of salt just because two left voluntarily as soon as they could and LLD knew very early on that Firebringer wouldn't bring her to endgame. They all knew their lifespans were limited.

So they likely spewed a lot of shit to deliberately mislead us.

[Spiffeh]

I’ll be here tomorrow bc my headache is killing me

But I’ll just say that I need to start everything over because I was dead-on wrong for literally everything this game, with LLD flipping scum (one of my strongest townread) and skitter flipping town (had a terrible rxn to our Gypyx vote, will explain tomorrow), and the rxn test was for me to confirm my locktown read on y’all (and secretly Bell’s, will explain tomorrow)

I hope you feel better!

I am very interested in all of this information so I will await your return with bated breath.

My plan is to ISO both HST and Gypyx and reread Second Dance all within the next ~48 hours. Let's see if I actually do any of that.

[Spiffeh]

I will admit the HST gigawatt townread from ffery is something I forgot about, not sure how much weight I should put on that

[Spiffeh]

To respond to the wish-washy thing, I believe there are several reasons I have lacked conviction in my reads throughout this game:

1. There are no elimination wagons to analyze. A major aspect of my scumhuntimg is to see how players use their vote and since First Dance lasted like ten minutes with no elimination vote, there is nothing for me to draw on there.
2. I also typically like to use flipped scum associations to draw conclusions, but again that’s hard to rely on here when all three flipped scum knew they were likely dying at some point and probably littered their ISO’s with misinformation. This won’t stop me from trying, like that point I made regarding Cabd’s town case on Gypyx, but I don’t expect to really draw many conclusions based on the body of work the scum team has provided in the thread.
3. Like everyone else seems to be claiming, I’ve just been very wrong on like everything that matters? I’ve had some solid confident townreads that have indeed flipped town, but I was also in the camp of town-leaning Cabd (until the very end of pairing phase) and advocated for Lavar to be left behind over Enchant. I also thought fireisred was scum. This phase, I then promised to sheep scum!LLD and thought for sure skitter/STD would have one scum in their pairing. So all that has been a major blow to my confidence and in my heart of hearts I REALLY don’t want to give a theoretical scum!Gypyx the win because if Gypyx is scum it is clear that I’m the one that Cabd and LLD designated to throw the game for town and I don’t want to give them that satisfaction which is why I’ve been trying to be hard on her even though I’m leaning town there.

This has been my complaint/ramble session about my insecurities regarding this game.

Additional items to check for based on what Bell provided from their neighborhood:
1. HST’s read on RH9 in pairing phase
2. HST’s progression on Gypyx throughout the game.

[Spiffeh]

The server is super slow at work today which has given me some time to begin ISO’ing

Anyway, I’ve decided. As much as I want to dance with fery, I should really let the person who came back from the grave just to dance with fery dance with fery.

Yes, I know, I know, speaking as if I ever had a chance

So

Bell, Dance with me

I want my arms about you
The charms about you
Will carry me through to

I’m side-eyeing this a little bit in retrospect, given what Cabd ultimately did to ffery, and HST feeling the need to justify not pairing with ffery seems kinda insecure.

A lot of early posts from HST also seem to be buddying people like ffery and Bell (and Cabd) but this could be a play style thing.

[Spiffeh]

I have completed HST's ISO from the pairing phase. I was gonna provide commentary throughout my HST ISO journey but there really wasn't much for me to comment on one way or another and I was doing it from my phone so I gave up on that pretty quick.

Also Bell you stole my fucking idea before I said it so I'm going to steal your stolen idea preemptively and provide reasons to town read and scum read HST based on my reading.

Reasons to townread HST:
1. HST feels pretty Town tonally, a lot of his posts just gave me good feels in terms of how natural a lot of his one-liners are. I typically fall victim to writing slots off early that hit these notes with me. Ffery even mentioned in her read of HST at one point that HST's carefree attitude will generally fade as scum and I wouldn't say I've noticed any fading of it here.

2. I stand by the fact that HST's response surrounding the Lavar scum slip debacle sounded pretty town and even diametrically opposed what scum seemed to want from that since they were obviously looking for Enchant to make it to First Dance (looking at posts 2010 and 2015 specifically).

3. On a similar note, a lot of his thoughts surrounding the choice between Lavar and Enchant mirrored mine, and there was a specific post where he called Lavar Town that felt really good (2022)...only to walk it back a little bit later, so not like gargantuan town feelings there but +town points for articulating things exactly how I felt at the time I guess?

Reasons to scumread HST:
1. You'll notice all of my reasons for town reading HST occurred in the pairing phase. My biggest problem with this slot is how much of a non-entity they have been throughout Second Dance. I felt HST was pretty well engaged the first Day, but a lot of that good will has evaporated. From what he's presented in the thread during Second Dance, I do not see much effort devoted to scum hunting other than some engagement with Gypyx (who funnily enough feels like the designated mis-lim at this point LOL). At no time did HST really provide their thoughts on the order they'd want people to leave the dance, or make much effort to identify the town/town pair he wanted to bring to endgame. There's also no visible questioning of Bell other than the Gypyx reaction test which was supposedly also a test for Bell? Their play this phase just leaves a lot to be desired for me.

2. All of this is even more concerning because HST has supposedly been doing a bang up job in the neighborhood based on his "massive case" (Bell's words, not mine) on RH9 and that one post that he accidentally posted here that was meant for the neighborhood. Why hasn't this level of content and effort been provided in the thread at this point? There is a stark contrast between what Bell has conveyed about HST from the neighborhood and his play in the thread. Scum knows they lose the game if their partner leaves, so HST high-efforting in the neighborhood while keeping his cutesy, innocent persona in the thread feels like he's desperately trying to pocket Bell while maintaining the behavior that got him so widely town read in the Pairing Phase. This feeling is amplified keeping in mind that scum knew LLD was a dead woman walking today and the remaining scum was the only one with a chance of reaching endgame.

2. I don't know the best way to articulate this but I feel like there were a couple of scenarios in this game that look to me like scum!HST could be trying to earn quick town points for things that don't really deserve them. Not that he is vocally pointing to them and proclaiming his towniness, but there's just some stuff that stands out to me as possibly intentional when it's all compiled together:
- Asking Bell how he confirmed his role PM
- The RH9 "case" from the neighborhood that ultimately meant nothing
- The wall post that was meant for the neighborhood
- The Gypyx reaction test
Again, a lot of this on its own isn't that big of a deal, but I feel like these contributions illustrate a pattern of finding an easy way to pass stuff off as content, when in actuality they really don't provide anything. It's a lot of "look at me doing things" without actually doing things.

Clearly, I'm leaning towards HST being scum based on this analysis.

I still need to ISO Gypyx and reread Second Dance in its entirety.

[Spiffeh]

Bell, most interested in your response on my HST scum reasons above

Feel free to tell me I am exhibiting confirmation bias because I have been guilty of that in the past

[Spiffeh]

With that said, I'll try to re-scan the game again, but for all this time Bell was pretty much my locktown read, and I honestly don't see myself changing that. That reaction test was my last spec of doubt I had on him, and he passed it with flying color.

Can you elaborate a bit on how Bell passed the test, and what behavior you’d expect from scum!Bell vs. town!Bell in that situation?

[Spiffeh]

Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag-time boy
Send me a kiss my sire, setting my heart on fire
If you refuse me you’re gonna lose me then you’ll be left alone oh baby
Dance with me and tell me I’m your own

HST posted this in our discord. Before the game. Which is why I knew who it was.
That or it was an awful coincidence.

Hmmmmmm if HST is who I think he is based on this, I definitely think he’s scum

But I’m not in the business of outing alts and I’m not 100% confident in his true identity so I will ignore this!

[Spiffeh]

I'm going to try to be less verbose about Gypyx than STD because I feel like I've devoted a lot of words to her already but still wanna make this post to compile all of my thoughts.

Reasons to townread Gypyx:
1. The bottom line for me is the vast difference between Gypyx's game here and her completed scum games. I read through the ones she provided in the thread and as scum she just does not seem to be capable of the level of detail and coherent thought that she's provided here. Sure, there's the caveat that Cabd and LLD coached her, and I felt she had a weaker second half of the pairing phase overall (I buy her explanation for that, though), but for the most part she has remained consistent even after all her potential coaching scum buddies have kicked the bucket.

Like she's been able to hold her own (imo) in several back-and-forths with Bell, and I don't know if scum!Gypyx has what it takes to not clam up during extended engagements like those.

2. I really like the early Cabd suspicion in her ISO. Not only does it ring true, but this was before Cabd leaving with ffery before intermission was even a thought so I don't see why scum!Gypyx would immediately cast doubt on her scumbuddy Cabd at this point. Again, this isn't something I feel scum!Gypyx could really pull off in sounding natural but everything checks out.

3. Not really a separate point but there's just several times throughout Gypyx's ISO where I said out loud "she's just Town" and that never really occurred with HST.

4. I find her behavior during Intermission to be a little counterproductive and unaligned with what I'd expect from the designated deep scum. She really didn't do anything to reassure me at a time where I was vocally questioning her in the thread. I'd imagine her scum buddies would have signaled to her to make me feel a lot better in the neighborhood given their win condition literally relies on me not getting spooked enough to leave at any point for the rest of the game.

5. I want to keep this super minor because it's WIFOMY and scum!Cabd with a plan is manipulative as fuck, but in my heart of hearts I doubt Cabd would town case designated deep scum Gypyx when he knows he's flipping scum. It felt more like scum!Cabd needed something to be passionate about to keep up appearances than some long con to reverse WIFOM us into locking Gypyx as a townread or something.

Reasons to scum read Gypyx:
1. The root of my paranoia is both Cabd and LLD flipping scum. Like I mentioned earlier in this game, Cabd and LLD were the two most responsible for the scum coaching Gypyx received in Tenet, and if there is one game where scum!Gypyx could really step it up and feel confident it's one with Cabd and LLD by her side.

2. Her level of effort tanking in the Pairing phase pretty much coincided with her accepting my invitation to dance. I was worried that she high-efforted early on to lock in a dance partner and couldn't maintain that facade now that her purpose for doing so was complete. Again, she's stated the reason for the drop in her activity level at this time, the timing is just super convenient.

3. She says early on that she wants to be in a neighborhood with someone who talks a lot, but her behavior in the neighborhood would not suggest this at all. I was a little surprised that someone who seemed so excited to pair up with me and chat in the neighborhood was such a non-entity.

4. Want to make this minor because I do not have a wealth of town!Gypyx meta, but the one town game she did link to in this thread she had like 800 fucking posts in, and while I think this game is particular far cry from a lot of the Gypyx scum games I've looked into, this game is also NO WHERE near the level of engagement and effort presented in the one town game I looked at from Gypyx. This game kinda straddles the line between the two, which worries me a bit because Cabd and LLD coaching her could be making up the difference here. But this is gross meta WIFOM bullshit and probably shouldn't be considered too heavily.

So much for being less verbose, lol

[Spiffeh]

Damn RCE was super obvtown this phase, he really should not have left when he did lol

[Spiffeh]

Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag-time boy
Send me a kiss my sire, setting my heart on fire
If you refuse me you’re gonna lose me then you’ll be left alone oh baby
Dance with me and tell me I’m your own

HST posted this in our discord. Before the game. Which is why I knew who it was.
That or it was an awful coincidence.

Hmmmmmm if HST is who I think he is based on this, I definitely think he’s scum

But I’m not in the business of outing alts and I’m not 100% confident in his true identity so I will ignore this!

As much as I should not be relying on being correct about HST’s alt, if he’s who I think he is that gives scum!Cabd even MORE incentive to blow up on ffery when she is vocally and confidently townreading HST, not giving her an opportunity to reevaluate

And things start to make sense…

[Spiffeh]

When did she ask that?

[Spiffeh]

It seems natural to me. First Dance ended almost immediately and I don’t think she realized that at first

Nothing alignment indicative there imo

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh, do you think you are out of / still in your scumrange? Explain why also

This may be a better question to ask Bell

But yes I feel my play this game has been outside of my scum range. This is my first game back in like two years and I would have been miserable had I rolled scum.

I think a lot of the wall posts I've made this game aren't something I could have replicated easily as scum with my current attitude towards mafia.

[Spiffeh]

Just a warning that my activity the rest of the game may be dialed back a bit as I have a lot of things crashing at the same time this week.

My current desire is to have Bell leave the dance to remove HST from the game, who I am hoping is the final scum. If this were a normal game Day I would be voting HST (and Bell) currently, but I want to respect Bell's process and give HST an opportunity to change my mind I guess? Just not sure how realistic that is at this point.

I still plan to be around to read, answer questions, and offer my thoughts on anything new, but at this point I'm pretty satisfied with HST as the final scum based on my ISO dives.

Feel free to convince me why I'm wrong.

[Spiffeh]

i mean, the only slot i'm really focused about sorting is you right now, if you feel like it's a relevant question feel free to ask Bell tho

I meant you may want to ask Bell if this is outside of my scum range, as he has pretty extensive experience playing with scum!me

[Spiffeh]

I hope you feel better

I’d prefer if you could tell me who the remaining scum is if it isn’t you and why.

[Spiffeh]

And I am really sorry if I'm wrong here, but like I said earlier the way this game has played out has made it very difficult to get solid reads on people. Every phase we were able to vote for people and maybe build a wagon or momentum to generate reads was snatched from us by calculated scum or too-eager-to-leave town and we are now paying the price.

This setup kinda blows because of that LOL

Or I guess scum have successfully capitalized on limiting the information we have at this juncture and it's tremendously frustrating.

But yeah, I tried, good luck, etc.

[Spiffeh]

And again, I am still open to reevaluate if anyone has some sort of smoking gun on Gypyz or something

I welcome it all!

[Spiffeh]

I did ask a couple of sort-y questions

One of which was not answered until like 22 hours later.

But yes probably not as much as I could have. I blame this on me not realizing Intermission lasted only 24 hours and Gypyx explicitly stated she was taking a break so I didn't actively pursue questioning her

[Spiffeh]

About 24 hours until the game is over so locking in my vote now:

VOTE: Bell / HolySpiritTurtle

I'm still around, let's just make sure to not run out of time!

[Spiffeh]

I mean I’ve already poured my heart out on all my thoughts surrounding you and HST and explained why I’m leaning towards HST as the final scum

Feel free to engage me on certain points if there’s something you’re still unsure about

But like, what more are you looking for?

[Spiffeh]

Like this entire phase I’ve literally done the opposite of not worry about you being scum so I’m really uncertain as to how that could be your interpretation of my mindset

[Spiffeh]

I understand the hesitance, I have been uncertain this whole game for reasons touched on previously.

HST’s final post purely defending himself kinda locked me into not reconsidering anymore. Just a lot of words devoted to why their actions couldn’t come from scum as if scum haven’t been calculated in their actions this entire game and it just feels like he’s weaponizing WIFOM to encourage more paranoia.

HST has been solely in defense mode ever since it’s been down to the final two pairs and there’s practically no scumhunting or effort to engage anyone at such a critical stage of the game that I can look at and say “yeah he’s town trying to solve”

And I know HST specifically acknowledged that his self-defense was bad and I understand if he’s sick and isn’t as present as he normally would be. This is just where I’m at.

[Spiffeh]

Thank fucking God

I really enjoyed everyone in this game, you guys were a blast, but this was a rough setup for me and probably not one I will play again in the future. It seems even ROUGHER for scum tbh

Gypyx you were awesome this game I'm so glad we paired up!

Scum made the absolute best of a really shitty situation, props to them for almost taking it.

But yeah so many of you were fun to play with, go team!

[Spiffeh]

*fist bumps Bell*

[Spiffeh]

Ffery I wish you didn't get exploded on so early, I feel like we were syncing up again!

[Spiffeh]

Ffery I wish you didn't get exploded on so early, I feel like we were syncing up again!

"Why she got exploded: the reason"

Lol valid

[Spiffeh]

skitter I feel like we could never get on the same page this game but I still enjoyed playing with you!

[Spiffeh]

spiffeh don't leave forever again it was so fun having you back!

<3

I’m crawling back into my mafia-free hovel for awhile probably but you never know!