Open 109a - new management/thread soon! (before 722)

[Zilla]

Heyo.

Vote: Zilla

Scummy as all hell!

[Zilla]

Martyrdom, here I come!

This is either the most brilliant or stupidest tactic ever, depending on town. XD

Also, wait, why are there 7 roles and only 6 players?

Unvote: Zilla

I don't like that she's at L-1 and we haven't even gotten out of the random voting stage. Her only post so far (aside from this one) was a self-vote, and I don't know how to interpret that... I will need to see if she's actually being scummy or just making a stupid ploy.

[Zilla]

FoS: SensFan

Stupid WIFOM for putting someone at L-1, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that WIFOM, and it doesn't really make much sense from a town standpoint. You'd wait for the hammervote and then call everyone's attention to the hammervoter, and hopefully repair your reputation tomorrow, or count on claiming it a "town ploy" to draw out the scum by watching for the hammervote.

All in all, it seems like a nice spot for scum to set up shop, and I don't like it.

[Zilla]

I love how this user Zilla has decided what I will do.

Links plz?

I think Zilla is Scum, but not sure.[/quote[

Links plz?

Would be more sure if people grew a pair and hadn't unvoted.

You mean if I had been bold enough to lynch myself, you would be more sure I was scum? O_o.

Speaking of growing a pair, either vote me or don't. None of this FoS shit.

Well sorry, Mr. Impulsive, but I don't want to lynch town and it was too early for me to vote you. I really don't like that post though, I'm feeling about ready to vote.

Actually, I can't see town being this dense and offensive this early on, and since so far you're clean,

Vote:SensFan

[Zilla]

EBWOP: By clean, I mean clear of votes.

[Zilla]

I didn't feel confident enough to use a vote. Is that an alien concept?

You can make that case it is OMGUS; but it isn't just because he voted for me, it's the method and the timing. No reason and putting me at L-1 on page 1, and I already explained how that is a very nice position for scum to sit on. It can be passed off as a town move to entice a scum hammer and then follow up tomorrow with lynching the hammervoter, and assuming they were town, that gives scum 4 free kills, and he'd probably be able to distance himself from responsibility for my lynch by day 3 enoujgh to let him blend in.

All in all, it seemed very opportunistic, and I can't really imagine a real townie doing something like that.

[Zilla]

If he's not thinking at all about what he's doing, he could be town, but I like to assume other players know what they are doing when they play.

Both of his posts so far haven't been good.

[Zilla]

I agree defense is going to be a clear indicator, and at the same time, the mafia has nothing to lose from it. The game will be over when their partner goes down, so why not go all out on defense?

Similarly, I can see you're putting up some defense for Sens here, and I'm quite suspicious of it myself; let him answer for it rather than giving him an escape hatch. I don't understand what you mean by "last game"... Is there some series of games I'm unaware of? There are hundreds of games on the site.

Further, quicklynching does not make for town winning.

[Zilla]

^ I'd vote you for that post if I wasn't already voting.

1) You say this is the third lovers game you've been in, and that you advocated quicklynch as scum in both other games, and then say that it's clearly not a scum tell because you are town in this one. This is backwards logic, anyone can see that. "I've done this as scum twice before, but since I'm doing it now, and I'm town, it's not a scumtell!"

2) quicklynching day 1 isn't going to get us anything except a waste of a day and lots of WIFOM.

3) You don't understand my reason for voting at all then. My initial FOS was because you weren't at threshold of scuminess for me to vote, but your response post put it over that threshold. I'm now more than reasonably convinced I hit paydirt and this game will be over in one day.

[Zilla]

So far, it's empirically proven that he does it as scum. It's a null-tell at best meaning that at worst, it's a scum tell, in which case I'd agree with you, but it absolutely isn't a town-tell, I can say that much.

[Zilla]

This is the third straight Lovers I've been in,

both as Scum

, then Town. I advocated a quicklynch in both the other 2 games.

This reads to me as "Scum for both of the two games, then town for this one."

You still have to explain why a quicklynch means town win. Pointing at a game with a quicklynch and a town win does not prove anything, nor does it prove why you consider it to be a beneficial town tactic.

FoS means Finger of Suspicion. It indicates suspicion. It doesn't impact the game like a vote does. I said I suspected you but not strongly enough to vote you, until you made an ass of yourself enough to warrant a vote.

I've played over 50 mafia games, not all on this site, I think I understand how Maifa works.

[Zilla]

To all other players: This is not a three person game. I don't like the silence, especially the length of it. I didn't recieve a prod, actually, so I don't even know if the mod sent it out.

I think we have both an AFK mod and a mostly AFK playerbase, which is not good news at all.

[Zilla]

So how in the world does that put random lynching at an advantage over focused lynching? This game is already stacked against scum, considering they have no nightkill and are a two-person-wide target. Random lynching, especially ending the day early, especially when you can take what you can get as scum and off town players as quickly as possible, is not a valid strategy.

It should be no surprise that my initial self-vote was part random, part stirring-up-the-hive. That's easily recognizable. I was set to ride it into martyrdom, thinking we would have at least a mostly full day's worth of posts to analyze. There's a lot of room for speculation on who would vote for me and when, but I'm extremely critical of the L-1 vote. No scum with any wherewithal would dare hammer a rush wagon like that, WIFOM or not. L-1, on the other hand, is a perfect place, considering the pace, for scum to stick thir vote. It's not immediately scummy and the consequence can easily be blamed on the hammervoter, and, as I explained in my first post on this, it gives scum two kills easily. If done right, the scum pair can tag-team out for day 2 and work toward clearing SensFan while still riding it out on the hammervoter being lynched. Hey, a town flip on the hammervote actually helps SensFan out in this case, since it makes the Zilla wagon look less scummy.

I can't, however, see a town ploy for rushing a lynch. It ends the day early and basically eliminates a player to help scum. All they want to do is make a mad dash for LyLo and hopefully come out of it with a win, and the less they have to hide, the better. The faster the game goes, the less scum have to worry about, because until they win, they're losing.

[Zilla]

EBWOP:

Also, since you're such a fan of random voting, would you vote yourself if you were leading a lynch?

[Zilla]

oooh, scary, it's not like they don't leave a trail that you can actually follow up on.

And how does random voting not allow for scum manipulation? All they've got to do is make the weakest of cases, and not even support it in any way, and they can win the game by controlling the "random" lynch.

You ignored my question.

[Zilla]

So you agree that random lynching gives scum the win. With one word that contradicts everything you've said so far. Nicely played.

[Zilla]

EBWOP:

Also, since you're such a fan of random voting, would you vote yourself if you were leading a lynch?

[Zilla]

Don't think I'm so close minded at all, I'm playing one step ahead of what you're proposing and proposing we analyze those who are after the quicklynch before the lynch even happens.

Which is exactly what brings my case on you. NOT THAT IT MATTERS BECAUSE WE ARE THE ONLY THREE PEOPLE PLAYING!!!!

Assuming we did go to lynch, I'm telling you what I would say on day 2 if I was alive to say it. Your vote is scummy and your proposed method of play is scummy, it's unthinking and costly and lets town be lead by scum who can appear untraceable with hardly any effort considering all they have to do is say they support random lynching to be considered town.

[Zilla]

1) I came to play a game of strategy, not of chance. Random voting means our only chance at winning is to randomly happen upon a mafia, and then the game is over. While the odds may be in town favor, this is a) chancy and careless, and b) not in the spirit of the game.

2) All they have to do is propose the random lynch, and they win by controlling the lynch.

3) Random lynching gives NO accountability. You can't find scum that way, your best bet is to stumble across them.

4) You say the mafia will be obvious from the results of the first lynch. a) how? b) wouldn't targetting anyone no longer be random, defeating the point of only random lynching? c) Who is to say the mafia even vote at all?

[Zilla]

also:

Mod: Prod everyone except Sensfan and myself (Yorgi might need one for the heck of it...)
Someone: Prod mod

[Zilla]

No, no, and no some more. Random lynching in this game is comparable to random voting in most games. We might happen apon a nice target, but Town really can't win this Day1 anyways.

What? You're being incoherent. What makes random lynching akin to random voting in this game? What happened to "Town has a 33% of winning today"? I call BS.

2) All they have to do is propose the random lynch, and they win by controlling the lynch.

Can you explain where they 'win'? Did I ever suggest randomly lynching tomorrow?

I was under the impression you didn't want anything but random lynching, "otherwise scum can control the lynch with their WILY LOGIC!"

3) Random lynching gives NO accountability. You can't find scum that way, your best bet is to stumble across them.

Hey look, wrong again. I can find Scum from the fucking 'Random' VOTING stage, you don't think I can find Scum from a 'Random' LYNCH?

Total BS, and I can't believe you even suggest this. You wanted a QUICK LYNCH, and on top of that, the only thing you said in your vote was that the vote was L -1. How is that accountable? In fact, town would be up a creek if I was hammered right after your vote, since anyone on that wagon would look scummy.

4) You say the mafia will be obvious from the results of the first lynch. a) how? b) wouldn't targetting anyone no longer be random, defeating the point of only random lynching? c) Who is to say the mafia even vote at all?

We are only 'Random' lynching today; not tomorrow.

This only answers question B. It does not answer A and C.

I'm starting to think you might be dumb Town, and not Scum.

I've seen this line from scum more often than town, bear in mind.

Vote: Yorgi

; let's start a new wagon.

[/quote]

So sorry that your vote on me isn't sticking, scumbag. Lots of conviction you had on Yorgi too.

[Zilla]

I will when there's someone else to look at, but I can't go "Hmm, stekinj looks scummy" because there aren't any posts to back it up, and you've made a huge case for yourself with your push for a quicklynch and your horrible logic for random voting.

[Zilla]

Let's add the "Ah, forget it, why can't we all be bandwagon friends? Here, let's bandwagon someone else together!" to the list.

[Zilla]

I think either you're stupid town or mediocre scum. Stupid scum would have gone off lurking and not even bothered to half-ass a town argument.

[Zilla]

I'm aware wrong =/= scummy; anti-town motivation is scummy, and you've been playing anti-town. Hence either mediocre scum or stupid town.

[Zilla]

It's not all that tough to run up a vote count....

Zilla:

1

Zilla

PopularTajo

SensFan

PopularTajo

1
Stef

Stef:

2

Yorgi

Yorgi
SensFan

SensFan:

1
Zilla

Yorgi

1

SensFan

[Zilla]

EBWOP Sorry, Yorgi does not have any votes and Sens was italicized there because he didn't unvote Zilla to vote for Yorgi so it was questionable, but he unvoted to vote for Stef, which was an unvote of Zilla.

So, Yorgi has no votes.

[Zilla]

No, no, and no some more. Random lynching in this game is comparable to random voting in most games. We might happen apon a nice target, but Town really can't win this Day1 anyways.

What? You're being incoherent. What makes random lynching akin to random voting in this game? What happened to "Town has a 33% of winning today"? I call BS.

2) All they have to do is propose the random lynch, and they win by controlling the lynch.

Can you explain where they 'win'? Did I ever suggest randomly lynching tomorrow?

I was under the impression you didn't want anything but random lynching, "otherwise scum can control the lynch with their WILY LOGIC!"

3) Random lynching gives NO accountability. You can't find scum that way, your best bet is to stumble across them.

Hey look, wrong again. I can find Scum from the fucking 'Random' VOTING stage, you don't think I can find Scum from a 'Random' LYNCH?

Total BS, and I can't believe you even suggest this. You wanted a QUICK LYNCH, and on top of that, the only thing you said in your vote was that the vote was L -1. How is that accountable? In fact, town would be up a creek if I was hammered right after your vote, since anyone on that wagon would look scummy.

4) You say the mafia will be obvious from the results of the first lynch. a) how? b) wouldn't targetting anyone no longer be random, defeating the point of only random lynching? c) Who is to say the mafia even vote at all?

We are only 'Random' lynching today; not tomorrow.

This only answers question B. It does not answer A and C.

I'm starting to think you might be dumb Town, and not Scum.

I've seen this line from scum more often than town, bear in mind.

Vote: Yorgi

; let's start a new wagon.

So sorry that your vote on me isn't sticking, scumbag. Lots of conviction you had on Yorgi too.[/quote]

This went completely unanswered and ignored.

[Zilla]

4) You say the mafia will be obvious from the results of the first lynch. a) how? b) wouldn't targetting anyone no longer be random, defeating the point of only random lynching? c) Who is to say the mafia even vote at all?

If you won't pay attention to anything, at least respond to this, excluding B because you did address that.

[Zilla]

This game is remarkably inactive. :/

[Zilla]

And again, the mod needs prodding. :/

[Zilla]

Sorry, I don't have time to be on all day . Yes, I'm in.

[Zilla]

No, I assume you weren't either considering you're asking.