Open 101 - Two of Four - Game over before 712

[Raging Rabbit]

vote count 4

ThAdmiral 3 (ZazieR,TCS, veerus)

veerus 2 (Ripley, ThAdmiral)

Not voting - CarnCarn, axle135

With 7 alive, 4 will lynch before deadline. Deadline is in 6 days.

[axle135]

ThAdmiral posts a very good point, and the people against him don't seem to have a real reason. However, doesn't ThAdmiral's post follow very well Tarhilindur's standard tells?

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... dard_Tells

Until there has been some more analysis of what he says, I don't think I should vote just yet for either person.

I will be gone from Dec. 26-30, so I guess it's okay to replace me if need be, but please P.M. me if you decide to do so. However, it's possible that where I'm going will have WiFi.

[veerus]

ThAdmiral posts a very good point, and the people against him don't seem to have a real reason. However, doesn't ThAdmiral's post follow very well Tarhilindur's standard tells?

Yes.

IIOA (primarily) -- thus my vote.

[ThAdmiral]

As if I was the only one discussing the set up.

[veerus]

As if I was the only one discussing the set up.

No.. but you were the only one to come up with an elaborate OMGUS post/vote on me.

[ThAdmiral]

But you aren't voting me for that because your vote was already on me so that's moot.

And you would call a perfectly good case on you omgus, which is completely misrepresenting the reason I voted you anyway. In fact you'd see that I didn't omgus vote you at all if you bothered to actually read it.

[axle135]

Would you two mind quoting the posts that yuo are arguing over? It would make it alot easier to follow along...

[CarnCarn]

Alright, at this point, either ThAd is scum and his buddy is really reluctant to hammer, or he is town and both scum are already on ThAd's wagon.

So, for each of ThAd wagoner's, some important questions:

Do you think all the ThAd wagoners are town, or do you think there could be scum on the wagon? What are your suspicions of the other wagoners?

What do you think of the speed with which the wagon built?

[ThAdmiral]

Would you two mind quoting the posts that yuo are arguing over? It would make it alot easier to follow along...

If I haven't quoted somebody then I am quoting the post directly above me.

I think that should clear this up.

[Raging Rabbit]

Above votecount still applies. Deadline in 2 days.

[veerus]

Alright, at this point, either ThAd is scum and his buddy is really reluctant to hammer, or he is town and both scum are already on ThAd's wagon.

Agreed. However, if his buddy is reluctant to hammer, that still leaves one reluctant townie.

Do you think all the ThAd wagoners are town, or do you think there could be scum on the wagon? What are your suspicions of the other wagoners?

I'm going back and forth on TCS.. I can't decide, but his "gut" vote isn't exactly well reasoned (as by definition). Zazier pushed for the mass claim and provided lengthy reasoning only to vote TA for something relatively minor. In other words, both could be scum. However...

What do you think of the speed with which the wagon built?

It is likely a coincidence. If scum are on the wagon, they didn't really try to bus preferring to vote on a whim since TCS/Zazier votes aren't exactly rock solid.

[Ripley]

I thought ThAdmiral's case against veerus was better made than any case made against ThAdmiral himself.

Alright, at this point, either ThAd is scum and his buddy is really reluctant to hammer, or he is town and both scum are already on ThAd's wagon.

It's possible that he's town, one scum is on the wagon and the other is nervous about hammering and hoping a townie does it. With deadline approaching fast that would be a reasonable expectation. It can be tricky to hammer as scum, especially if you haven't previously expressed much suspicion of the player.

Could the players not presently voting give us some idea of your voting intentions?

[ThAdmiral]

agree with ripley.

With the deadline approaching the scum could just be happy to wait it out.

[Ripley]

Mod

: is the deadline 12 midday or 12 midnight?

[CarnCarn]

It's possible that he's town, one scum is on the wagon and the other is nervous about hammering and hoping a townie does it. With deadline approaching fast that would be a reasonable expectation. It can be tricky to hammer as scum, especially if you haven't previously expressed much suspicion of the player.

Could the players not presently voting give us some idea of your voting intentions?

True, what you say is technically possible, especially given how weak the case on ThAd seems from my view. However, this then suggests to me that one of you or axle135 is hesitant scum, but you both have read pretty protown to me so far, so, from my perspective, I don't think it's really the case here (i.e., I would say the three of us, you, me, and axle, are most likely all town).

I think TCS' play is scummy, but veerus' play also jumped in scumminess for the L-1 vote on what is essentially ThAd's playstyle. I'm really not finding anything scummy in ThAd's play, so, to make my vote more useful:

Unvote, Vote: veerus

As things stand, I believe axle135's vote will make the difference.

[Raging Rabbit]

Mod

: is the deadline 12 midday or 12 midnight?

Technically midnight at -2 GMT, but I may allow a short extenstion if asked nicely enough.

[CarnCarn]

Mod

: is the deadline 12 midday or 12 midnight?

Technically midnight at -2 GMT, but I may allow a short extenstion if asked nicely enough.

Mod: May we please have a short deadline extension?

[veerus]

With 7 players, it's kind of hard to not get to L-1 quickly. Besides we're nearing a deadline. Putting someone at L-1 with mere days before deadline is not scummy.

I find it rather curious that you're jumping on my wagon when my vote has a significantly better reason than the other two on TA. In fact, TA even agreed with my reasoning.

fos: CarnCarn

for creating a counter-wagon. If TA flips scum, you'll be a prime candidate for his scum buddy.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I've been neglecting this game. Please forgive me. Or lynch me. Whichever suits you.

[ThAdmiral]

@ veerus: I agreed that that was what I was doing (iioa) but I didn't agree that this was inherently scummy. And I also pointed out that I was not the only one doing it (I just happened to be the only one with 2 votes on me already).

@ tcs: would it be too much to ask you to just pop in and vote someone else before the deadline (preferably veerus)?

[Raging Rabbit]

I'll allow 'till midnight on the 29th, MS time.

[Ripley]

fos: CarnCarn

for creating a counter-wagon.

What do you mean,

creating

a counter-wagon? You had 2 votes already. Almost anything CarnCarn could have done was less scummy than voting for you. He could have lain low until after deadline and blamed Christmas commitments. He could have voted one of the players currently on 0 votes - almost bound to be totally useless the day before deadline. He could have posted without voting at all. The only other choices he had that I can see are to vote for you or to lynch ThAdmiral.

Putting someone at L-1 with mere days before deadline is not scummy.

"Mere days" ... what does that mean? It's wonderfully vague, but I think a reasonable person would think "mere days" meant a very few days, four or five at most and certainly less than a week. Your vote actually came nine days before deadline. But it's not just a question of that, it's also the nature of the vote itself. You'd previously muttered something about a post of ThAdmiral's not feeling quite right to you - so useful to have this totally vague comment in place ready to subsequently fill out, or forget about, according to how things developed. Then once TCS put ThAdmiral at L-2 you were all at once able to work out what it was about ThAdmiral that you didn't like, and it was so overwhelming that you were willing to put him at L-1 on the spot, despite, as you note yourself, the other two voters having voted him with even less cause than you did.

I've been neglecting this game. Please forgive me. Or lynch me. Whichever suits you.

There is a third option, which is that if you're not interested in playing this game you could leave. Nobody's forcing you to play, and there's never a problem getting replacements on Page 6.

I don't think lynching TCS is such a bad idea, but impossible to organize at this late stage, and I'm sure he was aware of this when he chose the timing of his post.

[Raging Rabbit]

Prodding ZazieR.

[veerus]

fos: CarnCarn

for creating a counter-wagon.

What do you mean,

creating

a counter-wagon? You had 2 votes already. Almost anything CarnCarn could have done was less scummy than voting for you. He could have lain low until after deadline and blamed Christmas commitments. He could have voted one of the players currently on 0 votes - almost bound to be totally useless the day before deadline. He could have posted without voting at all. The only other choices he had that I can see are to vote for you or to lynch ThAdmiral.

Hm, I forgot I had 2 votes on myself.. pretty sure one of the votes is still left over from the semi-random stage, so lynching me with random votes would be more ridiculous and scummy than anything happening with TA's votes. I shall

UNFOS

since I didn't realize I had two votes on me already.

Timing of my vote is poor, but it's not scummy. I voiced my opinion that TA was giving off scummy vibes but I didn't want to vote on a "gut" feeling or a super weak reason like the others did. However once I was able to quantify what I had a problem with in TA's posts, I placed my vote.

@TA: obviously you wouldn't agree that your behavior is scummy. However your behavior fits one of the proven and often-observed tells of mafia and in these games, best you can get is tells. They're more often right than wrong and they don't require twisting others words and picking out little things and blowing them out of proportion like you have done.

[ThAdmiral]

well bandwagonning is a tell as well, a much better tell.
So is being wishy washy, like you were before the vote.