open 914: the coalition

[Moros]

it felt that way to me.

[Black]

mmm

[Black]

HEAL: Moros

[Black]

I just feel like Moros is being honest here and I think this type of read tends to come from town

[implosion]

Okay. Umlaut is

hard

town. 125 is a townpost. The sort of audacity to call it out as what it would be + wanting to claim that there's absolutely no ambiguity to the townslip, comes from town dramatically more often. Scum kind of need to leave townslips as ambiguous things. But the even bigger thing to me is the statement about Black's self-respect; I feel like that's an angle scum would come up with to argue from extremely rarely.

i don't think this is true at all. scum who sees a town as you say townslip will know it's a townslip with no ambiguity. town who sees a town townslip will be unsure.

I agree with how scum perceive things but disagree about how town perceive things. Yes, scum will know it's a townslip with no ambiguity, but scum also know that that ambiguity will exist for the town; ergo, it's in their interest to muddle things, or (i think probably most commonly) simply not be the first to comment on them for fear of being disagreed with. Basically I think townslips have two interesting properties here: (1) they really test scum's ability to replicate a "typical town" mindset, and therefore would dissuade them from taking an immediate strong stance; and (2) they have potential to put someone firmly in the town category, which serves as disincentive for scum to point them out and advocate for their validity.

[implosion]

I am also sort of inclined to see Moros as town right now, less because the arguments it's making but more because it seems (ironically) pretty disinterested in being seen as town. It's lashing out at Black and Umlaut as being scummy, and is now unhealing me based on presumably my advocating for Umlaut being town. Seems like pretty poor scum play in this setup to be so fast to not want to work with people.

[implosion]

Actually, question for Moros: what do you think is Black's scum motivation to bring up the dumbtell again? You say you think she has a motivation, but I don't see why she would go out of her way as scum to lie about the setup misunderstanding, given that it isn't actually mechanically clearing for her even if she did have the misunderstanding. I think it's much simpler to think that she did misunderstand the setup (as town or as scum).

nobody bit on it the first time, so it didn't work. the second time it looked out of place and pushed to be more obvious for getting responses. it didn't feel like something town would say to me, because it felt unnecessary. i don't know if i think that still but i felt that way at the time.

This isn't really answering the question. What is the scum motivation for wanting someone to bite on it at all? Normally the reason that scum would want people to notice a dumbtell is because, if the dumbtell is real, it implies that the person making the tell is town. But that doesn't apply to Black's case, she can have made this mistake and still be scum (because she was mistaken about the number of town in the setup, not the number of scum).

[May]

Okay. Umlaut is

hard

town. 125 is a townpost. The sort of audacity to call it out as what it would be + wanting to claim that there's absolutely no ambiguity to the townslip, comes from town dramatically more often. Scum kind of need to leave townslips as ambiguous things. But the even bigger thing to me is the statement about Black's self-respect; I feel like that's an angle scum would come up with to argue from extremely rarely.

Black, is probably town, I think. The townslip isn't actually clearing if she thought it was 5:2 rather than 5:4 (for clarity, the reason it would be clearing is because if she's scum, it'd be clear in her mind that there were 2 scum, but that isn't actually what she was mistaken about). I still think it's town-ish because setup mistakes I think are probably baseline more likely to come from town since scum are talking privately with someone. I also like her offhand post annoyed that no one was finding her as town, I think that's an angle she'd take a bit more often as town than as scum.

Doesn't umlaut say it's just a working theory in 128? A lot of the theory about town slips and the wifom/risk/reward of calling out something that could be a townslip is generically true in much more platonically ideal cases but it neither costs scumUmlaut a correct coalition slot, nor do I see how scUmlaut would think it was guaranteed to cost a correct coalition slot.

[May]

Do you, Moros, want people to townread you? Or is it more like, you think Black is trying too hard?

only if i deserve it. yes, at the start.

Which posts?

the first 7

I don't understand how to you got the impression I'm trying too hard to be townread from those posts. Half of them are RVS jokes that I do every game and the others were just me talking about whether we should self vote

I forgot for a moment we were playing coalition and thought you were saying you've half joked, half discussed self destruct strategies, and the selfdestruct strategy half must not count as jokes, and it was funny

HURT: May

[May]

I both feel like I have no idea how to read Implosion but vaguely feel there was like one game exactly one time where I identified his slot was scum so I feel like I'm supposed to know how. Like when my opponent played super giant into two facedown cards yesterday and I remembered I lost to that 3 times and beat it once but could not remember the details of the difference between those games and then lost and felt terrible as a learner of knowledge on planet earth

[May]

Implo could you post your alignment in the emo band pt

[May]

The porcupine town read on Moros is pretty good but I also feel like it's kind of just playing mafia without caring about winning debate club. 131 is a joke that undermine its own arguments

There's a certain extent to which I just want to town read all the players that make me laugh and I think Moros is above Black on the leaderboard

[May]

Aventurine come help me town read you I don't remember anything about your slot

[Tsawwassen]

it seems unfair to me that there's only 5 town members. it leaves them no room for error in forming their coalition. but i didn't design the setup

Honestly it's just an issue of me posting without thinking. This post put it in my head that the setup was 5v2 and I didn't even bother to double check. I do absent minded stuff like this regarding the setup pretty often

I'll give you benefit of the doubt since I also derped out at the start

[Tsawwassen]

Townreading Black somewhat, but not gonna lie I got a gut feeling that Black vs May might have been some sort of distancing play, so I don't want the coalition to have both of them in it, I'm fine with Black being in it though!

Finding Umlaut townie during Moros vs Black.

Cutter B confuses me the more she posts... is it just me?

Don't have a read on May right now!

This coalition looks good to me right now!

HURT: all
HEAL: Black, Moros, Tsawwassen, implosion, Umlaut

[implosion]

Doesn't umlaut say it's just a working theory in 128?

Er, sort of? I mean Umlaut says that they think that's what Black meant, and I absolutely believe that Umlaut believes that's what Black meant because IMO it was the obvious interpretation of Black's posting to think that Black thought there were 4 scum. And if Umlaut believed that Black genuinely believed that there were 4 scum, then Umlaut would make the posts that they made; and if Umlaut is scum who thought that Black had townslipped by betraying that she thought there were 4 scum, Umlaut would not have made those posts because in practice scum don't want to give the townslipper hard credit. And Umlaut was hard committing to calling Black town for the slip, in essence; the fact that Black has now clarified that it isn't actually a townslip in that way doesn't change that Umlaut thought it was a slip in that way when they made their post (again, which I am confident of because I think it was the obvious reading of what Black had said).

I hope that paragraph makes sense because it might not, and if it doesn't then there's a good chance I can't explain it any more clearly.

A lot of the theory about town slips and the wifom/risk/reward of calling out something that could be a townslip is generically true in much more platonically ideal cases but it neither costs scumUmlaut a correct coalition slot, nor do I see how scUmlaut would think it was guaranteed to cost a correct coalition slot.

I mean, it's more about psychology than practicality. Practically, if someone did townslip, then a townie might notice it and sing its praises anyway. But psychologically, scum seeing a townie townslip is (i suspect) on average afraid to give the townslip hard credit for the reasons I've outlined.

[implosion]

I both feel like I have no idea how to read Implosion but vaguely feel there was like one game exactly one time where I identified his slot was scum so I feel like I'm supposed to know how. Like when my opponent played super giant into two facedown cards yesterday and I remembered I lost to that 3 times and beat it once but could not remember the details of the difference between those games and then lost and felt terrible as a learner of knowledge on planet earth

Are you a known alt? I don't remember playing with you (apologies if we have!)

I am I think pretty obvious town in theory here; moreso than the towngame I just played at least (which Black was in). My RL circumstances are very peculiar right now so I have a lot of time and energy to devote to this game and the distraction is very welcomed and I suspect I would still be posting a fair amount if I were scum but I would not be enjoying it as much as I am lol.

HEAL: Black, Moros, Tsawwassen, implosion, Umlaut

This is interesting because it's softly a list of you, me and my townreads; and also because it seems quite the politically infeasible coalition at this moment (granted that Moros is being a bit ambiguous about its read on me, but it did unheal me and is scumreading Black and Umlaut)

[implosion]

ceejay was also in that game but ceejay was scum in that game so probably wasn't really trying to read me

[May]

I both feel like I have no idea how to read Implosion but vaguely feel there was like one game exactly one time where I identified his slot was scum so I feel like I'm supposed to know how. Like when my opponent played super giant into two facedown cards yesterday and I remembered I lost to that 3 times and beat it once but could not remember the details of the difference between those games and then lost and felt terrible as a learner of knowledge on planet earth

Are you a known alt? I don't remember playing with you (apologies if we have!)

I am I think pretty obvious town in theory here; moreso than the towngame I just played at least (which Black was in). My RL circumstances are very peculiar right now so I have a lot of time and energy to devote to this game and the distraction is very welcomed and I suspect I would still be posting a fair amount if I were scum but I would not be enjoying it as much as I am lol.

HEAL: Black, Moros, Tsawwassen, implosion, Umlaut

This is interesting because it's softly a list of you, me and my townreads; and also because it seems quite the politically infeasible coalition at this moment (granted that Moros is being a bit ambiguous about its read on me, but it did unheal me and is scumreading Black and Umlaut)

I'm an open alt
Most people in the game know
I'll post it in the band PT

[May]

My legal name IRL is May that should helpp

[May]

I think I'm struggling to see it as the only obvious reading of Black's string of posts. I just read it like someone who has played coalition once or twice saying it's impossible to instawin coalition without selfing, which is true 5/7ths of the time.

It might be locked into my own perspective not to view the misunderstanding as dominant over the understanding, I only hear laurel and the dress is gold etc

I want to townread the slot anyway for the multipost and was less worried about mistakenly coalling Umlaut vs. figuring out if you're tmi-ing. I no longer think the reasoning is thin enough to indicate that

[implosion]

alas, i am comically bad at trying to figure out alts.

I want to townread the slot anyway for the multipost and was less worried about mistakenly coalling Umlaut vs. figuring out if you're tmi-ing. I no longer think the reasoning is thin enough to indicate that

Fair.

[May]

I just beat a mill player named "Cats" while Pandora was blocking half the screen playing with a rubber band

[Tsawwassen]

This is interesting because it's softly a list of you, me and my townreads; and also because it seems quite the politically infeasible coalition at this moment (granted that Moros is being a bit ambiguous about its read on me, but it did unheal me and is scumreading Black and Umlaut)

Is this a roundabout way of saying you don't townread me yet? It's ok I think you will come around though!

I know my list might not be feasible, but it is essentially a combo of including people I trust and excluding people I don't trust at the moment (May, cutter b, ceejay, don't remember the fourth...)

[ceejayvinoya]

I’m finding I have this gut feeling about Moros that is generally negative. It’s weird, because I’ve agreed with a lot of the ideas it’s been posting, but I can’t help but feel that there is something wrong here.

This stands out to me as off for some reason