Linux Appreciation Thread

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:55 am

Post by Skygazer »

FWIW I have never had any stability issues with Arch or Gentoo that weren't self-induced. That being said, it is kind of easy to self induce stuff especially when you're starting out. I would say in terms of time sink, there's a ton to get it up and running (more so for Gentoo) but the official install guides for both are pretty comprehensive. I've found maintenence to be pretty straightforward and quick once I was up to speed on things (granted, compiling in Gentoo is not quick, but easy to have run in the background). They both have you living in the terminal a lot (at least while installing) which may or not be your thing. They both offer an extreme amount of customization and start you with a very minimal system that you can add extra stuff to as you please. They're both great for learning how things tick behind the scenes. In my opinion both of their package managers are better than apt. If any of that interests you, I would highly recommend checking out Arch. Gentoo I wouldn't really recommend to Linux newcomers unless they already have a handle on bash/zsh/something similar. Some might say the same about Arch, but I actually learned zsh through Arch.

I've never tried Manjaro outside of 5 minutes in a VM. Easy to install but from what I understand it's much more unstable than Arch. And the people who make it don't seem like a very professional outfit (lack of testing, and they've accidentally DDOS'd (or took down in some other manner) the Arch repo at least once iirc). But that's just one person's take.

Debian is cool, I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu personally (I'm big into free software, and I dislike Canonical's approach to things). I would describe Debian as relatively easy to install. I support a couple of Ubuntu users at my work and they seemed to get the hang of it really easily so I wouldn't discount it for anything other than idealogical reasons. If you want a computer just to "do things" without having to think about it as much, these would be the way to go. And let's be honest, most people are going to be in that camp.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:32 pm

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As someone with an NVidia graphics card, I don't appreciate Debian's habit of putting barriers in the way of obtaining drivers, and that's pushing me towards Ubuntu.

Arch and Gentoo, especially if Manjaro isn't an option, seem like a lot of work for no payoff. Customizability is nice but I've been told that everything can be customized, Arch and Gentoo are just special in that they force you to choose everything yourself to start with as opposed to starting with presets and changing things later. The rolling releases may not be that unstable but as a newbie I'd rather the total stability of something like Debian. My familiarity with bash/zshell is that approximately once a month I find sed useful, so if I'm talking to a normal person I can call myself capable of using using the terminal but if I'm talking to someone who uses Gentoo I know absolutely nothing.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:56 pm

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I think part of the fun for me is the work haha. If you don't think you'll like it you probably won't!
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:02 pm

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Anyways here are a couple of screenshots I posted on the Gentoo subreddit after a week or two of breaking it in! It still looks pretty much the same now. If you think the theming is bad it's because I did most of it myself :
P

Spoiler: image
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:46 pm

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In post 27, Skygazer wrote: I think part of the fun for me is the work haha. If you don't think you'll like it you probably won't!
I might, but:
1) I don't really have time for it.
2) The learning process seems kind of brutal/there's no starting point. I've been enjoying customizing Emacs recently, but only because it started off as an ordinary text editor. I tried learning all its fanciness at once a while ago and got nowhere.

I'm probably going to start with Ubuntu. Maybe switch to something else later but for now start with the easiest.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:16 am

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yeah the more think on it, using arch/gentoo has definitely been more of a hobby rather than just a means to an end, which is how i imagine most people want to use their computers lol

eventually i want to attempt a linux from scratch install :eyes: but i probably wouldn't use that as my daily driver, i'll probably just have it as a lil project on one of the old laptops my job let me borrow
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Fri Nov 10, 2023 5:54 am

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id love to switch to a windows-like linux os at least so i can ditch certain things microsoft forces on windows users but honestly i'd probably rather just have a hacked version of windows that removes that stuff for me
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:31 am

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In post 26, Who wrote: As someone with an NVidia graphics card, I don't appreciate Debian's habit of putting barriers in the way of obtaining drivers, and that's pushing me towards Ubuntu.

Arch and Gentoo, especially if Manjaro isn't an option, seem like a lot of work for no payoff. Customizability is nice but I've been told that everything can be customized, Arch and Gentoo are just special in that they force you to choose everything yourself to start with as opposed to starting with presets and changing things later. The rolling releases may not be that unstable but as a newbie I'd rather the total stability of something like Debian. My familiarity with bash/zshell is that approximately once a month I find sed useful, so if I'm talking to a normal person I can call myself capable of using using the terminal but if I'm talking to someone who uses Gentoo I know absolutely nothing.
Latest release of Debian bundles firmware, not sure how much it would improve the driver situation
In post 30, Skygazer wrote: yeah the more think on it, using arch/gentoo has definitely been more of a hobby rather than just a means to an end, which is how i imagine most people want to use their computers lol

eventually i want to attempt a linux from scratch install :eyes: but i probably wouldn't use that as my daily driver, i'll probably just have it as a lil project on one of the old laptops my job let me borrow
I think there are far less regular LFS users than regular Gentoo users, because of how LFS is meant to be set up. I have installed LFS on a VM before and I would never install it again.

(not to mention that there is a trend, started by Gentoo and followed by LFS, of completely dropping eudev for systemd's udev which, while still working even without systemd, is far harder to compile manually alone)
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Wed May 01, 2024 4:39 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

The mascots for Linux look nice
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Mon Jun 03, 2024 11:45 am

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I installed qubes on a laptop a while ago and now don't use it much, though that isn't entirely due to the software. Windows is getting worse, and threatening to become apocalyptically awful in the future, so I figure it's time to download linux onto a desktop. It is again time to choose a distro.

Options I'm considering:
Ubuntu Mate - Pros: Seems like the easiest to use, has up to date software, doesn't hate NVIDIA. Cons: Is Ubuntu.
Debian - Pros: Isn't Ubuntu. Easy to use. Isn't Arch. Cons: Doesn't have up to date software, hates NVIDIA.
Arch - Pros: Is Arch. Cons: Is Arch.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Mon Jun 03, 2024 3:09 pm

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Update: Tried installing debian and failed, badly. I'm impressed Windows still works.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:19 pm

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EndeavourOS is essentially Arch, very popular, and well-maintained and ridiculously easy to install and dual boot with. You can tinker as little or as much as you want after installation, and it's not easy to break things at that point.

I know there are a million distros that all need to be tried but Endeavour is that niche if you're looking for "Arch but I don't brick anything."
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:25 pm

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I use Arch as my daily driver but it's really just a hobby. I used EndeavourOS most of 2022 and elementary OS most of 2023.

All work quite well, and rarely did I need Windows for anything given that I was willing to stomach Google Docs for word processing.
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2024 8:01 pm

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I got Debian working but I'm not sure how much I'll use it. Proton is nowhere near as good as advertised, so I still need Windows for video games, which are the primary purpose of the desktop.

With regard to Endeavour, I've been told that all derivatives of Arch will break things and that if I didn't build Arch from scratch I wouldn't know how to fix them. Though Debian has already broken (and been fixed) in what is hopefully the worst possible way Arch variants might break things, so I guess not using an Arch-based system doesn't protect me from that. I think I'm done with Linux for now though, it can't replace Windows for gaming and I'm happy enough with my mac laptop for everything else.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:33 pm

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In post 38, Who wrote:I think I'm done with Linux for now though, it can't replace Windows for gaming and I'm happy enough with my mac laptop for everything else.
It seems like Proton might work better on Arch based distributions, so I'll try out Endeavor as soon as the weather cools down.
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Wed Jun 19, 2024 12:41 am

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is the problem with proton that you just can't get games to run? or are they running poorly?

i've found with proton you have to do a little extra finnagling for games sometimes but i haven't ran into a game i haven't gotten to work yet. but unfortunately for maybe half of the games i've tried to play thus far i've had to do some extra setup by going to the game properties and putting in some launch options (varies from game to game)

protondb usually has the right launch options in the comments, sometimes you even have to try multiple suggestions (since things can vary from system to system)... it's not terribly convenient
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:11 am

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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:29 am

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i think im pretty close to switching a laptop of mine to linux
a lot of gpu-oriented libraries i use seem to work best or most easily with it
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:05 am

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Is Fedora still the gaming distro? That's what I remember everyone using when I was still in college.

I use Debian for pretty much everything else though. Annoying to have to manually download every driver to work (Nvidia and Broadcam network card) but other than that it's pretty much Ubuntu without all the awful bloatware.
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Wed Jun 19, 2024 5:50 am

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In post 40, Skygazer wrote: is the problem with proton that you just can't get games to run? or are they running poorly?
I have tried two games. Armored Core 6 failed to run (Couldn't even get to the start menu), Hades ran poorly (Unplayably poorly, somewhere around 1 FPS). Both were given the highest rating by ProtonDB.
i've found with proton you have to do a little extra finnagling for games sometimes but i haven't ran into a game i haven't gotten to work yet. but unfortunately for maybe half of the games i've tried to play thus far i've had to do some extra setup by going to the game properties and putting in some launch options (varies from game to game)

protondb usually has the right launch options in the comments, sometimes you even have to try multiple suggestions (since things can vary from system to system)... it's not terribly convenient
The comments generally seemed to say you didn't need any extra finagling. Though for AC6, every comment by a Debian user said it didn't run but apparently there aren't enough of us to detract from the rating.
In post 43, GeorgeBailey wrote: Is Fedora still the gaming distro? That's what I remember everyone using when I was still in college.
I haven't heard anything about that. There's a distribution devoted entirely to gaming (Garuda), but it doesn't seem to be used that much and I've been told the community is awful so I'm generally staying away from it.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:44 am

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I wonder if there's any kind of hardware interplay that makes proton work better on valve's console. Like, the Linux subroutine they use to emulate a Windows one is different and creates a racing problem, but the winner of the race needs to be a thread the steam deck hardware would naturally prioritize anyway? Or something *like* that
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Fri Jun 21, 2024 12:23 pm

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I think it's unlikely there's anything that blatant, but yeah it seems plausible that there's some combination of proton was optimized to work on the steam deck + the steam deck was optimized to work with proton.

Though the comments on ProtonDB don't limit themselves to valve hardware, and the general impression I get is that it works fine on computers and the issue is Debian.

Or the issue is my specific Debian. Debian occupies a middle ground between letting you do what you want and forcing you to do everything its way, in which it has a way it believes things should be done, and if you try to do things differently it generally can be changed but it judges you and sometimes it breaks. I tried to install drivers for my graphics card and Debian said "Shame on you", broke, and forced me into terminal only mode. I think I fixed it, but there might be some broken piece lingering which prevents me from playing videogames. Though given that the other 3 Debian users who commented also couldn't play, it can't be too specific a problem.
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:54 pm

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In post 43, GeorgeBailey wrote: Is Fedora still the gaming distro? That's what I remember everyone using when I was still in college.
arch is the most popular distro on the steam hardware survey right now (behind steamOS obviously)

I really like it, but any popular distro can probably be a "gaming" distro nowadays tbh
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:13 am

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In post 42, Psyche wrote: i think im pretty close to switching a laptop of mine to linux
a lot of gpu-oriented libraries i use seem to work best or most easily with it
i ended up getting mint. it was ok
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:21 pm

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Mint has a nice balance of like, size & ease of use imo, I use it for random work things a bit
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