Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia II {Game Over!}

[Percy]

Sorry, Ectomancer, but I have no idea why you want to be sent to prison, why you want to go with freeko or what you're going to do while you're there. If you hide all your reasoning and information then you're not going to get my vote. Converse with the town, contribute and read the rules. It's

really

not complicated.

freeko and Ecto are both hiding from the town, and are playing selfishly rather than collectively. There have been some good PBPA's on freeko, and I'm really not happy with simply dismissing him as 'silly'.

If we send them both to prison, then we could insist they both say "Yes 100%", or get dayvigged the next day. However, the chances of one or both of them grabbing a self-protect are high enough that we could end up with wasted time, wasted resources and no good info.

Ecto and freeko are scummish, freeko more than Ecto. We should investigate each of them tomorrow. Why should we risk our plans just because Ecto and freeko want to have a crack at it themselves with their secret plans and secret suspicions? No thank you.

Keep things open and collective. We get the most possible information, power and control this way. Ignore those who want to derail things just when we're about to reach consensus

without stating why

.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Self-protects don't save you from daykills.

[solorpg]

I don't have a good read on Ecto, but he might be scum as well. It seems most likely that exactly one of Ecto and freeko is scum, and if so, the yes/100 plan is really good. Trading 1-1 town with scum is really awesome, and if the two have agreed to go to prison together, I can't see a town power role sacrificing himself that way. However, that requires Plan 3, which has not gained substantial support. Let's worry about this after we send another pair of townish players.

Additional note: doc protection does not stop dayvigging, as confirmed by the mod in response to my question so we wouldn't waste any resources.

Mod, do doc protections prevent daykills?

No

[Empking]

People, mentioning how you want plan 3, 2A, 2C, 2D ect is not helpful.

Just so you know, unless we get to a "I'm willing to let anyone go." position, I won't vote Percy. (gut)

[ortolan]

pretty sure I see what Ecto's getting at but I will let him reply

[Ectomancer]

pretty sure I see what Ecto's getting at but I will let him reply

I'm sure you do Orto, so does Albert. So does anyone with half a spark in their head. Watch those who pretend not to understand. Which of them is protecting Freeko? (Check Percy's pseudo ad hominem)

Look at the people who claim that they can control the town, regardless of whether they choose a town-town, town-scum, or scum-scum pair. Look at how many people are hanging their *&*!# hats on investigation results. We've already got 2 Miller claims, hasn't anyone ever played mafia before? Have you never heard of investigation immunity? Do you really think Mach-Maf doesn't understand game balance? Do REALLY think we are going to cop investigate ourselves to a win?

But now, I see those same people, who are willing to send a scum-scum pair into the prison on the idea that we can control them, but for some reason you wont send me because I scare you now? Can't you control me? Because if you can't, then shut the hell up about being able to control anyone else either.

A relevant point - I spoke earlier about Freeko's desire to be investigated. After Percy's ad hominem, he decides that we shouldn't do a Yes/100% (personally, your opinion wont mean squat if you send me in with Freeko). Now check this out - Percy parrots Freeko and

asks for a cop inverstigation

. Scumbuddy?

Percy should be the target of a dayvig.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Send: Percy

Send: Freeko

[freeko]

@percy: I dont see how i am trying to derail things. I started by voicing my opinion against certain strategies that I believed to be complete crap. One of which was yours. So far I have gone along with this plan, though for the most part I do not completely agree with it. Ectomancer on the oother hand seems to have the differing agenda here. Also ABR, dripping goofball, empking, and anyone who hasnt even bothered to essentially play the game yet.

Just for the record I will not go into PD with ectomancer under any circumstances. He has shown no reason to even warrant any discussion on this. What he is doing on the other hand is ruining the plan (some?) of you agreed on implementing.

[freeko]

@ TCS: any particular reason for this?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

In an unexpected turn of events, Ectomancer, freeko, and Stephoscope have been captured by an unidentified person and sent into prison! The day will resume in 48 hours or less.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Prison Count #6

9 - Plum (zachattack, Empking, Stephoscope, CounselWolf, Narsis, ortolan, Percy, solorpg, RossWilliam)
5 - Percy (Plum, solorpg, RossWilliam, ortolan, The Central Scrutinizer)
3 - ortolan (freeko, zachattack, Kublai Khan)
2 - Narsis (Empking, Stephoscope)
2 - freeko (Ectomancer, The Central Scrutinizer)

1 - zachattack (Narsis)
1 - Albert B. Rampage (Percy)
1 - Ectomancer (Ectomancer)

Not Yet Voted:

Seraphim (2)
DrippingGoofball (2)
Albert B. Rampage (2)
doctor no (2)
Plum (1)
Moratorium (2)
hp [leaves] (2)
Kublai Khan (1)
killa seven (2)
CounselWolf (1)
Abstract Atuary (2)
Vel-Rahn Koon (2)
freeko (1)

Remember the majority is 12 and the deadline is 3:00PM EST, Feb. 2nd

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Clarification: It is NOT night yet. Day will continue shortly. Anyone with night abilities CANNOT use them yet.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

All 3 who have been abruptly sent to prison are executed!

Ectomancer, Protown Vanilla Townie, killed by lethal injection Day 1
freeko, Protown Avenger, killed by lethal injection Day 1

Stephoscope, Mafia Goon, killed by lethal injection Day 1

You are a Protown Avenger. Your special ability is Two-shot. If sent to prison, may choose to escape prison that night. The other player will be released. Everything about the escape will be publicly announced next day. Then during anytime anyday thereafter, you may choose to daykill one of the players who voted you into prison via PM.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Day 1 continues. Deadline remains the same. The majority number is reduced to 11.

I will have a round of prodding sometime today. Seraphim has requested replacement.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I think the alignment reveal for freeko points towards ortolan and narsis being town. I need to read the last 3 pages again, and I'm not going to get to it until tonight.

[Empking]

Mod

Are we voting for our last person?

[DrippingGoofball]

Full disclosure.

I sent Ectomancer, freeko and Stephoscope for a special lethal injection prisoner's dilemma. I didn't think they'd all die. But I did receive the results of what they did. Each one decided to inject both other prisoners with a full dose.

I sent the two players everyone thought was scummy (ecto and freeko), and one random useless dispensable player (Stephoscope who was doing nothing). I thought the percentages of poison they would order dispensed would be revealing...

Well at least one scum died. Not the one I would have guessed, but hey.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm calling out the following:
Stephoscope

Yeah, I deserved to be called out, sorry.

I'm with you on Plan 2, and I've already put in my votes to send the (supposed) Millers.

I would like to highlight this post as potential bus'ing.

Percy >>>bus>>> Steph

Steph hardly did anything warranting of being noticed.

[Moratorium]

freeko and Ecto are both hiding from the town, and are playing selfishly rather than collectively. There have been some good PBPA's on freeko, and I'm really not happy with simply dismissing him as 'silly'.

How about now?

---

The truly interesting part about that little Night-but-not-night episode isn't that Ecto and Freeko both flipped town (I saw that story as Freeko stumbling in his logic a few too many times, setting off several scumdars, and Ecto just being the one who decided to go ahead and risk self-sacrifice to take him out as a 1-for-1 town-mafia trade).

The interesting part is Stephoscope. Few posts, called out as lurker (hypocrisy noted), and this is supported by the fact that his posts are mainly:

I totally agree with this.

I agree with this.

Although I do find you somewhat suspicious, I'm tending to agree with your thinking right here.

And then he flips mafia. That tells me that this premature 48-hour day-hiatus that we just experienced wasn't mafia-generated (turncoating a lurking scumbuddy on "Night 1", especially one who hasn't been otherly discussed, seems like a huge waste). Some pro-town or third-party element has some ability to jail, but having the ability to jail people at will seems severely overpowered, so my guess is it was a n-shot ability (n=1-3?).

Preview Edit: Hey, fun. DG, was this one-shot?

[DrippingGoofball]

DG, was this one-shot?

I'd like to keep the scum guessing.

[DrippingGoofball]

Given Steph's player profile, I wouldn't be shocked to find out that his 'random' vote on Kublai Khan was amateurish bus'ing right out of the gate.

[Plum]

Well, that's interesting, DGB. I guess. My question here is that you say you sent Freeko and Ectomancer because they were the two everyone found most scummy - but what did you think of them? Also found them scummy, I assume?

Interesting note about possible bussing there. Reading back, it seems Percy was calling out more than half the players in the game for various degrees of lack of contribution (far from just Stepho or Stepho and few others); in retrospect, Stepho's apologetic response is telling of apologeticy scum, but hindsight is always 20/20 etc. Conclusion: Stephos' response is more telling than Percy's call for contributions, but it's useless now because he's dead Mafia. Possibly bussing, to be sure, but it's hard for me to say confidently that it was

likely

bussing.

[Abstract Actuary]

I'm here now and all caught up. I read through the original game and this one.

Interesting turn of midday events. I'm glad it worked out that at least one mafia member was recruited for the early Prison Dilemma. I see that a few have read through Stephoscope's posts. My first instinct is that there isn't much to draw from them, seems like Scum trying not to stick his neck out much.

------------

My thoughts . . .

I think, especially on day 1, we should send the 6 most townie people into Prison. They should have specific instructions that they will be punished for disobeying. Frankly, I can see either the 6/0, 4/2 or 3/3 cop/vig distribution. I agree that Vigging will essentially become our lynch mechanism, but I think on day 1 information is the most important thing.

On future days I think we will begin to send "scum pairs" into Prison with Yes/Yes instructions and also request more vigs from the town pairs, but I do think that the "scum pair" is going to be more problematic than we think.

-------------

Based on my initial read my two most innocent non-mason reads are Plum and ortolan.

I'm going to hold off on officially sending them, though, because, tp bring up a dead point . . . I think that unofficial votes to agree on all pairs is better than sending pairs one at a time. If we send in the two "towniest" players and then continue to discuss things, we have just limited our discussions to a smaller group that likely contains a higher ratio of scum. Also, this game is about gathering information in the early stages to be used for the future. Even if we think that these two players are the towniest at this point, that can all change in 5 days, or even 1 day. I'd rather not silence anyone until the end of each day.

[DrippingGoofball]

My question here is that you say you sent Freeko and Ectomancer because they were the two everyone found most scummy - but what did you think of them?

I hadn't a clue; I thought I'd get info from their prisoner's dilemma choices.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think, especially on day 1, we should send the 6 most townie people into Prison...

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