Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[Glork]

Vellcom, Comrades, to hell.


I focking hate zeez goats, alvehz trying to eet my pants.

[Glork]

I asked for a posting restriction and was thus denied. Therefor I hate all of you who were lucky enough to get one.

vote: glork

Naughty alpaca.

But I hear in zis contree zat zey say "fake it ontil joo make it," ya?

[Glork]

Are you faking it?

Nyet.

On an unrelated note, does anyone want to buy some lemonade?

Nyet.

Vood joo loik som vodka?

[Glork]

Ты не знаешь ничего?

Немного.


Bot, I vood loik to tok to deez peepol olso.

[Glork]

I vill

Vote: MeMe

[Glork]

Vy do joo tink I vood vote MeMe?

Olvays vis ze kveczyans.

[Glork]

Zeez so eezee.

Ze Flazh
Green Lantern
Sooperman
Battaman

Haff I vahn yet?

[Glork]

I don' no zees lon nomzh of vich joo zhpeek. I vood loik to note dat dey may not exeest in zis bazhtad of ze mod game.

[Glork]

Vell, let us look at id dis vay.


Ve no zat kaf vantz us to buy zees leemonad, zo ve kan zafely assoom zat selling zees leemonad vill help him acheev his vin condizhon.

I vill not go out off my vay to enable ze ozah comrades ontil I am konfidont zat zey are protown. I vood suggezt zat joo all adopt ze saem ffilosoffee, comrades.

[Glork]

I vind ze eeksiztans of an aleen to be very likely as vell.

[Glork]

ZaZeeR, plees tell me zat joo kan zhpeek ze Englizh.

Unvote
Vote: petroleumjelly

[Glork]

Zis iz boolsheet.

[Glork]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot

I haff no idea vy zere appears to be a vote on zis Perrot from me. I tink it is ze mod messink viss our headzh.

[Glork]

I vas avay oll veekend, back now.

Zere's really not much to say at zis moment. Dahill seeems town.

I vood still like to vote for Pee Jay.

[Glork]

Olso, interesting zat Imaginality posted zis boolsheet after EK made her Idiotic/Scum point. I believe ve vill haf to make exceptions for zis particular game.

Olso, vood any like to translate ze ZazieR posts? Any vis no restriction?

[Glork]

I vood still like to vote for Pee Jay.

But why? Or does this just mean there aren't any actual people you want to vote for.

Vot? I am voting for ze bezht kandidates. Joo vood, too, if yours were left off ze ballott!


BTW, Darox iz ze obv scomzh.

[Glork]

Ve shood kill Dezh, too.

[Glork]

VOT KIND OF SICK MAN SEND BEHBEHS TO FIGHT ME?!?



srsly, joo shood leench darox or dezh today.

[Glork]

srsly, joo shood leench darox or dezh today.

What do you have on darox? I have a few of my own ideas about darox, but I want to hear why you are pushing me to vote him. When you say 'dezh' do you mean Destructor? If so, what is your case against him?

Obv zhey are both ze scomzh.

If you think I should be voting one of these 2, why are you voting for petroleumjelly and not one of them?

Vot ze fock do joo think?




I vood shettle for votching joo guys lynch SlySly instead. And no, zis iz not ze OMGUZH.

[Glork]

Actually, Dezh might not be ze scomzh. He could just be ze stupidzh. Dezh, do you remember zis BALKO guy from ze California Game? How can joo be trusting of vot zis lemonehd guy tells joo?

[Glork]

I thought it a bit strange that you seemed to be making a joke vote to make a statement and chose petroleumjelly as the the topic. I'm scared to ask why that was the first thing that popped into your mind. If it is not game related, please don't tell us. I doubt there is any interest in the stories of your mangina amongst the town.

Vot made joo tink zat I vos voting as a joke?

[Glork]

Olso, I vood loik to no how joo vood rekonsil zis:

You are wasting the town's time with your baseless jibberish.

and zis:

I'm scared to ask why that was the first thing that popped into your mind. If it is not game related, please don't tell us. I doubt there is any interest in the stories of your mangina amongst the town.

[Glork]

Vell, Dezh... ze vay I see it, Kaf is eezher protown or not (obv).


If Kaf is not protown, vee probably do not vant to buy. So, ze protownzh people does not vant to buy becozh vee do not know if he is protown or not.

Ze scomzh, however, know vezher Kaf is in zere groop or not. If he izh not in zere groop, zen I vood project zat ze scomzh find him more likely to be ze protownzh (ya, ze neutral is poschibol). Zuss, I vood expect ze scomzh (and/or ze schtoopid playerzh) to be more willing to buy.

[Glork]

Item "Box of Condoms" has not been sold. The moderator will not tolerate condom balloon animals or water balloons in this thread. As this is the internet, the moderator is certain that that is the only use they will see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqt3Zb7BItA


Doss zis vork?

[Glork]

OH. MISREAD.

I thooght it said "vill only tolerate ze kondom balloon animalzh."


Fook me.

[Glork]

Joo guyzh shood leench Sly today.

[Glork]

Got ze prod, vill reed soon.

[Glork]

HAY LOOK A POZHT!!


Pozht 432 by Elveezh Neets zeemzh protown, bot I tink Sly'zh "a vote for me is a vaste of ze townzh time" made it klear vell beforehand zat Sly voz onleenzhabol.

Guys, I asked Destructor's agreement. Everyone else's consent was not necessary. I hope you will all trust me in that I think Destructer will agree to my demands, for his own good.

I don't consent.

Why should I risk being modkilled for this?

And, anyone who thinks my English posts are a scumtell, answer this:
Why would I post in German in the first place?

Zis izh eezy. Ze eemplekation iz zat ze pozht reestrikzhon vozh faked to begin vith. I am having a very, very hard time vy zombody vood zay "if I post in Englizh I vill die" zen seeing somvon pozht in Englizh more often zan zey pozht in German.

Zazie sed zat she cood ONLY pozht in Englizh. Joo are saying zat joo do not haff a pozht restrikzhon bot zat it "cood be" a faktor in joo "staying alive."

Now, vy vood Zazie fake a pozht restrikzhon to begin vith? Zis izh simple. Read page 1 and tell me how many pozht restrikzhonzh joo kount zere. I kount four, vith EK asking for von and not getting von. Ze obv reezhon to fake von vood be to fit in vith everyone elzh.
Zazie deezided to fake zis pozht restrikzhon, and joo, having not red zhe game yet, didnt notizh, and pozhted in Englizh. Now joo are czkrambling to ekzhplane joorzhelf.

Zat sed, I find zat Izaak'zh inquiry makes him look moch moor protown, and I dislike zat Plom gozh after him in Pozht 456

492 by Sly intrigues me. He sezh zat he knowzh who he thinks are ze scomzh. Who vere joor projected scomzh at zis point?
(EDIT: He sezh so in 503 after Plom askzh ze same kvezhtion.)

P zhoor zat dahill izh protown. Dahill, do joo tink zat Saskvatch eezh an alien?

Plum, Glork cannot vote for actual players. That makes him pretty much useless this game. It also makes him too easy of a target. I doubt he is scum because I doubt Mirth would make it that easy to locate scum. This is in no way meaning Glork is cleared of any suspicion, I just think it is more likely that he has a post restriction that makes him appear to be useless and I am willing to look elsewhere for scum for the time being.

Joozt von note about zis. Aside from my absenzh lately (for vich I sincerely apologizh), noffing vill stop me from being completely uselezh.

@Everyone: Here's something I noticed. It would seem Glork cannot vote for real players. However, the vote count still requires a majority as if there were really 12 votes. If Glork was incapable of voting for a real player, why would his vote be included in the majority count? I think this may suggest a fake PR or perhaps something related to his role. Anyways, I thought it was an interesting thing to note.

Fonny joo shood bring zis up, becozh I asked ze mod a theoretikal kvezhtion before ze game zhtarted. Ze mod basikally told me zat leenching takes majority ov oll living playerzh, so zis zhood be noted.

1. Mod-WIFOM won't get us tpp far, and my gut instinct is that we both need seven to lynch

and

Glork can't vote someone actually playing this game. There's a simple way to test this, though: Ask him to vote for a player in this game. Either he'll do it and it'll work, or he'll do it and it won't work, or he'll refuse and be forced to explain more.

So, Glork, would you mind voting for, say, me, at least long enough to see if it'll appear on the votecount? Whether or not your PM says it will work (unless you risk a modkill or something; if so, please speak up about that), please.

I seenk joo know ze anzher to zis olredy. I vill not say a vord about zis game, bot I vill zhay that hizhtorikolly, I very moch like to vote and leench people. Dahill and EK and Dezh shood be able to konfirm zis. I vill leave joo to joor own konkluzhonzh on zis mattor.

The poor fools gathered around one of their own, SlySly

Does this statement mean anything to anyone besides myself?

If I had to take a guezh, I vood say zat it means ve are oll poor foolzh.

Ze KMD/Izaak dizkozhon makes KMD look protown, too.

Ze plom/EK debate dozh not interezht me at oll, ekzhept in zat Plom izh von ov my scomzh kandidates.

Darox strikezh me azh being very "ondor ze radar," vich makezh me oneezhy. Kood be my imaginazhon.

---

On Glork, I'd like to see a claim. If he can't vote for any player in this game, he's useless to the town besides through scum-hunting, but he's hardly been doing any of that.

I find it unlikely that he's scum faking a vote restriction, but, unlike Sly suggested in 526, I don't see why that mean he couldn't be scum who actually HAS a vote restriction. Whatever the case, he's a serious liability to the town because that's one vote we KNOW will never land on scum.

What this means is that with Glork alive, we'd be in lylo one day early.

So, Glork, if you can't vote for anyone, I think you should claim right now and explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

---

Olredy addrezhed most of zis, but re: engame.
A player who kannot vote in endgame kannot vin, period. If, theoretically, I vere ze scomzh vis soch a restrikzhon, zen ze ozer two towneezh in endgame vood vote and kill me, becozh zey kood not leench each ozer, and zey vill not no-lynch.

I olso find it interesting zat joo label me aszh being kompletely uselezh, vith no thought that I may have any ozher abilitiezh. Zat is not to say vezher I have an ability or not, but it iszh a very unsettling assompzhon for joo to make.




So ya, I vood leench Dezh, and zen pozzhibly Plom after zat.

[Glork]

MY FIRST FUCKING POST WAS IN GERMAN.

NOW TELL ME WHY I WOULD CONTINUE TO FAKE A PR THEN START POSTING IN ENGLISH AGAIN??! HOW MUCH OF THIS IS YOU BEING A RETARD AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS YOU BEING SCUM?

It izh 100% me not remembering vot joor firzht pozht voz. (btw, joor firzht pozht voz aktually jost kitty piktorzh)

Admittedly, zis completely killzh ze faked restrikzhon theory.

If you can't vote for scum, you can't vote for scum in end-game. Mirth says that we need a majority of living players to lynch meaning that you being alive in end-game is likely to result in a scum win. Unless you have abilities that are incredibly likely to save the town in the above mentioned end-game scenario, which is not something I'm willing to count on... without a claim and improvement of play, I think your lack of vote is a liability large enough to trump whatever ability you might have. Why do you think I asked for a claim in the first place?

In fact, I'm not seeing how you could possibly miss my intention given that I said this:

So, Glork, if you can't vote for anyone, I think you should claim right now and explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

What other explanation could I possibly be asking for?

joo dont vont me to klaim. I vill not klaim onlezh I am about to be leenched.


Joo are still on ze top of my lizht due to joor ridikulos "claim now or else joo are uselezh" approach to my role. I believe zat protown playerzh (soch azh kmd who is obvtownzh, EK who is obvtownzh) vood be villing to vait and see vot my in-game kontribuzhon and vot ozer informazhon zey kood get on me before jomping to knonklozhonzh. I voodn't koll vot joo are doing "roll fizhink" Dezh, becozh it is not sobtol at oll, but I cannot believe zat joo vood normally, villingly put so moch veight on zis.

What is it that makes you feel that Plum is scum while Darox only makes you feel "uneasy"? Does anyone else find Glork's comparative "reads" on these two players surprising?

Her defenzh of joo and her attak on Izaak. Zey strok me azh scomzhy. Plom has said thinks vich I find scomzhy, vile Darox has jost said thinks vich dont give me a read. Ze oneezeenezh comez from an "ondor ze radar" feel from Darox, vich I believe I olredy said.

[Glork]

Izaak, are Glork/KMD/EK really joor top sospekts? Vy is zis? And vy are joo still voting for Sly?

[Glork]

Konsiderink I kolled joo protownzh, too, are joo olso my scomzhboddee?

[Glork]

Wrong. "Obvtown" is hyperbolee. Zey are ze same ting.

[Glork]

Can I suggest Isacc?

I think Izaak is komplete moron, but not malizhoss.

[Glork]

Plom: Izh your sospizhon of me bazhed on my belief zat EK is protownzh?

[Glork]

@Plum: Glork's last post, fourth paragraph (single lines count as paragraphs). It's the parenthetical part. He says EK and Kmd are "obvtownzh".

Thanks, sorry, my mistake. Now that I see that, I will say that I disagree strongly with that - and considering where I'm at with my suspicions of EK, I'll take the liberty to

FOS: Glork

.

So you're FoSing someone because you disagree on how scummy you find people? That doesn't make sense to me.

Zat'zh exaktlee vot I am kveczonink. I vont to know if Plom typikolly sospektzh people bazhed on differenzh in opinionzh.

Elvis even said she'd played in games where voteless players were lynched on account of them being a problem for the town.

Zis is true, bot she obviouzhly doezhn't believe zat it is unekvivikolly right to leench voteless playerzh, vich is vot you are soggezhting. Vot EK said and vot joo vont to do are

kompletely, 100% different

. "Vait and zee" is ze right vay to approach it. Leenching people in ze manner joo soggezht is jost terrible.

Right when I first started bringing this up I specifically said that you'd be useless unless you scum-hunted, but you'd hardly been doing any.

In my defenzh, I vos off-site for nearly a veek vith jozh enough time to pozht zis in SPQR and zis in zis game. I didn't pozht between Jan 27 and Feb 05 ozervize. So yezh, I didn't pozht moch, but it haz nothink to do vith alignment.

[Glork]

I can deal with that; it's just not my usual way of expressing relative lack of suspicion. If you meant "looks pro-town" when you said "obvtown", I'm more comfortable with the amount of reasoning provided.

Vell, vot I have to ask bos joo and Izaak is vezher joo aktually thought I literally thought zat EK's and KMD's townzhiness is "obviouzh." And if so, I vood expect joo to be more interezhted in

how

I arrived at said konkluzhonzh, razzer zan jost FoSink me for it.

Joo see, von tink I am interezhted in is inkvisitiveness. Disagreement over sospishonzh is very kommon in mafia gamezh, not only becoz scomzh try to trick ze townzh, bot becoz people tink differently and have different experienses. I have found in ze pazt zat knee-jerk "X disagreez vith my sospishonzh so X is ze scomzh" is most kommon (though not olvayzh) cozzed by beink novice or being insinseer (aka, scomzh).

So von of the reazonzh I prezhent myself as beink certain of alignment is to see how playerzh reakt. Both joo and Izaak said joo thought I vos sospekt for kolling EK/KMD ze "obvtownzh." In joor kase, I olredy sospekted joo for joor contributionzh. In Izaak'zh kase, I found zat his "plan" for Dezh -- though horribly ineffektive -- seemed genuine.


Bot since I am interezhted, I haff to ask.
Izaak: Do you

honestly

beleeve zat I vood bluntly state zat I believe both of my scomzhboddeez "obvtownzh" for no reason at all on Day 1 vithout prezhentink any reasonink?

[Glork]

I vood like to point out two tings.

1) Darox hazh pikked up four votezh on zis lazt page -- four votezh in seventeen pozhts. And on top of that, Plom has shown villingnezh to leench Darox as vell.

2) Dezh's Darox vote bothered me, and I tink I finally realizhed vy. While making a pozht moztly about Imaginality, he decidezh zat Imaginality is ze scomzh (vezzer bosing Darox or going after veek townzh). Two sub-points here.

--2a) I'm not sure how joo call it "bosing," Dezh, konsiderink Imag'zh vote vos

ze only von on Darox at ze time

. Bosing generally impliezh aktual threat to be leenched, and ontil EK/you (and now Sly) piled on, Darox vozn't in danger of leenched.

--2b) The more obviouzh kvezhtion to ask is vy joo vood pose a

very blatant falze dilemma about Imag being scum

, wagon Darox anyvay, zen korrekt yourself in a doublepozht and not move to Imag anyvay. Ze falze dilemma kombined viz the lack of vote on Imag konfuzez me. I vood like sobstantial explanation on zeese aktionz.

3) Darox, even if joo are "ztill typink," pleazhe give us vot joo have so far, even if it is jost notezh or a draft of vot joo vant to say. Since joo are ze leading kandidate vith four votezh, if joo have nothink to lose by pozhting joor thoughts.

4) Dahill and haskow also need to pozht moch more kontent for me to review.

5) If Sly kood be leenched today, I vood probably support killink him.

[Glork]

--2b) The more obviouzh kvezhtion to ask is vy joo vood pose a

very blatant falze dilemma about Imag being scum

, wagon Darox anyvay, zen korrekt yourself in a doublepozht and not move to Imag anyvay. Ze falze dilemma kombined viz the lack of vote on Imag konfuzez me. I vood like sobstantial explanation on zeese aktionz.

Pretty minor. Darox is a better lynch because he's been more anti-town. I have more of a gut on Imaginality. I don't get good vibes from his explanation for the FOS on caf. Note that my problem isn't his "reason" but how he eventually explained it. (I haven't read his latest post. But initial feelings tend to be most accurate for me. Eloquent scum can often talk their way around a lot of things.)

There's also the less obvious but totally legitimate motivation for me to post something like that for reaction's sake, which should not be a strech for you to believe.

It should also be obvious that my suspicious of Darox and imaginality have their own roots. I find two players suspcious, so I speculate about how they might be acting as part of a team and how viable this is. Getting other members of the town's opinion on this only helps.

I'm still finding your beef with me very hard to swallow, Glork.

I still don't onerzhtand ze falzh dilemma. First of oll, ze falzh dilemma izh scomzhee in and of itself. I shood not have to explain vy. Sekondly, I don't onderstand vy joo vood kvezhtion joor sospizhons of ze stronger, "more anti-town" Darox and not Imag.

[Glork]

Because if we keep him alive, the game ends a day earlier. If we lynch him, we lose that day anyway.

I don't follow you.

In an end-game scenario, so far as we know, Glork being alive ensures a scum win. Hence, we make sure Glork is dead at least a day before end-game and increase the town's chances of winning. This is a simple and indisputable truth based on what we know of this game's mechanics. Does this not make sense?

This is all assuming we even get to an end-game scenario and we haven't lynched Glork for something else anyway. It's possible that we catch scum every day and Glork is town (hypothetically), in which case Glork's vote restriction won't be an issue.

Suppose there are five players left, with one scum.

If you lynch me based on not having a vote, assuming a nightkill, the remaining players would have one opportunity to lynch in a three-person endgame.

If you keep me alive and I can't have any impact on the game without a vote, then you have one opportunity to lynch (with five players left alive).

Policy-lynching me doesn't actually accomplish anything aside from wasting a day and giving the scums another opportunity to nightkill whomever they want. That's why it's a terrible idea.

[Glork]

Also, in spite of the 31 page length, the first 8-9 pages were basically useless, as people just went crazy with their roles. I mean, actual lengthy discussions on alpacas, superhero battles, Dahill spamming "OMG ALIENZ" (incidentally, Dahill, wtf happened with that? You've calmed down quite a bit since the first 8 pages or so)... that's hardly content, and doens't require more than a quick skim as we look back and re-read for future information.

[Glork]

also, why are you typing in normal english all of a sudden?

I forgot, and have gotten ze modkillink varning.

[Glork]

"Wait and see" was what I said. I didn't vote you, I didn't say, "let's lynch Glork". I said you, as a voteless player, are a policy lynch one day before lylo. I asked for a claim because that was all I could see that would change that. All of this was easier for me to say because you didn't look very town either. I wanted the idea out there now, so it wouldn't be a scramble later in the game.

Liezh. Ven joo firzht mentioned it, joo said joo had to think on vot ze alleged restrikzhon said. Zen joo came out vith joor "Glork should claim or else we should leench him" idea.

So far, no one, including yourself, has provided a compelling argument against my suggestion, which is on purely theoretical grounds, and I have asked for feedback on it. Most of the responses seem to be based on preferences as opposed to real probabilities.

Ze policy itself is only part of ze issue here. Joo demanded a klaim

immediately

becoz joo said zat vizout one, zere vas no reason joo shood "be keeping [me] alive." Vot I kant onderstand is vy joo vood vont a klaim D1 for ONLY ze reason zat we may lose a day if I kannot vote in endgame.

First of all, zis is a DIREKT KONDRADIKZHON to vot joo jost claimed, zat joo vanted to "vait and see" how my role and gameplay vood play out. Before I ever had ze chance to respond, joo vere saying I shood klaim or die.

How in ze Motherland does "klaim or ve have no reazhon to keep you alive" translate "letzh vait and see vot happens over ze korse of ze game before decidink if Glork izh aktually ze scomzh"?

So, basically, your argument here has always been that I'm blindly pushing for your lynch without considering context, which isn't true at all.

So, Glork, if you can't vote for anyone, I think you should claim right now and explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

Joo tell me vezher joo vere "considerink knotekst" or giving me a "klaim or die" ultimatum, based on vot joo originially said. Don't joo dare try to change vot joo pushed. Joo vere blatantly fishing for a claim, else joo didnt vant me alive. Joo didnt say "perhaps Glork vill be investigated and vill bekome konfirmed town" (vich vood obviouzhly negate ze desire for a policy leench). Joo never said "perhaps Glork vill have anozer ability vich vill become evident vithout him having to klaim on D1 for no reason at all." Joo never said "perhaps Glork's lack of vote is temporary, and he vill be able to vote later." Tho joo never outright DENIED zese possibilitizh,

joo implied zat me klaiming is preferrable to exploring ze dynamics of my role vithin the context of ze game.

And ZAT is vot botherzh me so moch about joor play. I vood NEVER expekt joo to take soch an onreazhonable approach as town, and zat is vy I think joo are ze scomzh.

Hopefully zis post hazh artikulated my pozition moch more.

[Glork]

Sorry I wasn't around this weekend. I'm reading up now...

Did joo have a jot valentinezh date?

[Glork]

I say:
1. Voteless Glork is useless to town besides scum-hunting, but he's not doing any anyway.
2. Glork is not only useless, but a liability to the town because he can never vote for scum. (Elaboration coming.)
3. Glork should explain to us why we should be keeping him alive in light of 1 and 2. 1 and 2 are enough to lynch him given his lack of hunting, hence a claim I ask for.

Expand on ze #3. Joo and I both know zat is vhere ze issue liezh.
1) Joo ask for a klaim vithout anybody ozer zan joo putting even an ounce of prezhure on me. I maintain zat a protownzh player vood not do this. It vood make more sense for joo to have VOTED for me at ze time as a vay of putting prezhure on me to kontribute, instead of demanding a klaim outright.
2) The phraze "vy ve shood be keepink joo alive" botherzh me very much. Zis does not imply "ve shood leench joo one day before LyLo." Zis impliezh "ve shood leench joo immediately."

I put the ball in your court. I didn't vote you or suggest that anyone else should.[/b] Where's the lie, Glork? And more importantly, why are you pushing bullshit?

As I said, joo implied zat having me klaim vos better zan putting appropriate pressure zat a normal protownzh player vood do.

First,

you

said that I wanted to lynch you immediately. It is to

this

that I said I was "waiting and seeing".

Ya. I said it first, becoz of

ze exakt vords joo wrote

:

explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

As I have said MULTIPLE TIMES, zis implies zat joo vonted me leenched immediately. Else, joo vood be "keeping me alive."

Vot

exactly

did joo mean ven joo said "explain to us vy ve shood be keeping joo alive"?

If I was suggesting that you should be lynched immediately for being voteless, I'd have voted you and pushed for your lynch on that alone. What I did was "wait and see" what you had to say. Have I voted you yet? How can you possibly perceive me as saying "it's unequivocably right to lynch voteless players"? You can't, so now your beef has become "des asked for a claim too early."

I'm not entirely sure vy joo didn't vote me outright, because honestly, it's vot I vood have done if I vere in joor shoezh. Like I've said many timezh, joor klaimed stance on zis matter makes no logikal sense to me votsoever. I don't onderstand vy joo vood have demanded a klaim zere. I don't onderstand vy joo vood not vont to keep me alive (aka, not leench me)

[quote=""Dezh"]Sure, I thought about it. But your play didn't look town. I expect you to scum hunt because you're experienced and know why townies should be. You weren't scum hunting. You appeared more likely to be scum. I don't have issues about making scum claim. lol[/quote]Do joo honestly think zat I, regardless of alignment, vood have klaimed jost becoz joo asked for it?

Joo never said "perhaps Glork's lack of vote is temporary, and he vill be able to vote later."

This was the possibility I was thinking of in particular. A claim would have covered this.

1) Joo never addressed any of ze ozer possibilitiezh.
2) A klaim is only von vay of covering zis, and it is easily ze VORST vay to cover it.

Tho joo never outright DENIED zese possibilitizh, joo implied zat me klaiming is preferrable to exploring ze dynamics of my role vithin the context of ze game.

I SAID IN THE FIRST POST I MADE ON THE TOPIC THAT YOU WEREN'T SCUM HUNTING.
I would expect you to be. In fact, as a townie without a vote wouldn't you want to be making cases even more? Your backseat attitude didn't seem like something Glork-town would do at all.

I meant in ze knotext of ze ozer roles in ze game. Ve KNOW zat zere are many different mechanics at vork, and different postink restrikzhons. Yet joo seemed to ignore ze fakt zat zis is a VERY unuzhual game in favor of asking for a D1 klaim on a player vith no pressure on zem votsoever. Vy is zis?

I think I was pretty reasonable. I mean, you still haven't claimed and I'm still discussing this instead of going, "zomg glork didnt claim lynch him!"

Well duh joor not saying zat now. Joo'd have to be a komplete moron to kontinue vith zat line of utter krap after I pointed out how HORRIBLE AN IDEA IT VOS TO BEGIN VITH.

Here is why (and me trying maths again):

With x scum alive, where there are 2x+1 living, the town NEEDS x+1 votes

on scum

to have ANY chance of winning. (This is not hyperbole. It is fact based on what we know of this game's mechanics.)

If Glork is scum and alive in any situation as described above, the town could be okay -> Glork is probably scum (or else the game would probably be over)
If Glork is town, the town will only have x votes and so will not be able to lynch scum. That is, the town

will

lose.

So, unless something we know about the game's mechanics changes, Glork needs to die a day before LYLO at the latest or the TOWN WILL LOSE.

Zis is teknikally korrekt, bot it assumezh exactly von scomzhkill per night and no ozer aktions. Zere is an awful lot zat kan happen betveen now and "day before LyLo," and as I've said

multiple

times, I find it very diffikolt to believe zat joo jost ignored ze nature of zis game, as I indikated above.

Funnily enough, Glork, as town, should be more than happy to be lynched at the appropriate time because of this.

Wrong. If zis vere a vanilla game except for my lack of vote, zen yes. I vood agree. But no. Joo koodn't be more wrong.

(Something for anyone who's voting me to think about: If I were scum, wouldn't I want to keep a voteless player alive?)

Only if joo thought zat I vos truly useless. I don't think joo ever believed zat.

[Glork]

]Why are you ignoring the obvious? If I wanted to lynch you today, if that was what my intention was from the beginning, why didn't I vote you?

It follows that my intention was never specifically to lynch you today.

Ah. So joor sayink joo never had ANY intention to leench me even zo joo think I am scomzh based on my play and joo think I am a detriment vithout a vote?

1+1=5, apparently.

I thought you were more likely scum when I asked for the claim, which was an agitation.

Okay, seriously. If askink for ze klaim vos in agitation, vy voodn't joo have said zat at ze very beginning, ven I first said "joo dont vont me to klaim and I'm not goink to"? Sayink it vos in frostration vell after ze fakt makes joo look very insincere.

Because

maybe

you just had a slow start and would pick it up. Instead, you OMGUS'd me, brushing off my

theoretical arguement

, which you agree now is true, as irrational and came up with two disparate reads of Plum and Darox. You continuously made arguments that were out of context or to the neglect of something else I'd already said. None of this has made me feel any better about you.

I do

NOT

agree zat it joor theoretikal argument is true. I agree zat it is true IF AND ONLY IF joo make COMPLETELY TERRIBLE ASSOMPTIONS about ze nature of ze game vich NO REASONABLE PROTOWNZH PLAYER SHOOD MAKE.

Do joo honestly think zat I, regardless of alignment, vood have klaimed jost becoz joo asked for it?

I didn't think it was likely. But if you are scum, I was pretty interested in seeing how they might approach the topic. I'm pretty sure I asked people for feedback on it at least once afterward.

Joo never said "perhaps Glork's lack of vote is temporary, and he vill be able to vote later."

This was the possibility I was thinking of in particular. A claim would have covered this.

1) Joo never addressed any of ze ozer possibilitiezh.
2) A klaim is only von vay of covering zis, and it is easily ze VORST vay to cover it.

I have been getting the feeling, by how much you initially opposed my suggestion, that you have been very concerned about

staying alive

, which is, at least, not a town-tell.

Zis "feelink" is kompletely wrong. From ze start, I have been attacking joo becoz joor play looks like ze scomzh. Ze klosest I kame to being "knocerned about staying alive" is becoz I said I vood disagree vith ze plan baed on vot I know about my role and zis game (even though I vood agree vith it if ze game were essentially vanilla).

Au contraire, I haff been kontnet to argue vith joo all day becoz I am seriously 99% certain zat joo are ze scomzh, and seeing joo leenched today makes my job so much easier.

Yeah, but I never actually said "if glork doesnt claim we should lynch him" in the first place. Neither did I mean it.

Bot joo said "klaim and explain vy ve shood keep you alive." I'm sure joo can see vere I interpreted it as such.

The "awful lot that can happen" is

pure speculation

. I am not putting stock in what "could" happen.

Anything

could happen. I'm playing based on what we know here and now.

Without elaboration, all you're giving us is your word. That obviously doesn't count for much. It would be bad play to take it any other way.

Askink for and gettink a klaim vood have been "takink my word." Vot's joor point?

[Glork]

From California Triology: Dantes in Fresno, Glork's fake-claim, which won him a scummie.

Zat vas one VERY forutnate example. As a counterexample, I cood point out Space Monkey Mafia, vere I blundered into a fake-klaim zat petroleumjelly KNEW didn't made no sense at oll, but I vas saved by a kompletely onforseeable setup tveak zat ze town cood never possibly have seen komink. I'm actually notoriously bad at claiming in general.

From Weasel Mafia,

Yeah, he could be morally opposed to self-hammers.

Oh, and thanks Gorrad.

Basically, this.

If I'm scum and I think there's a remotely reasonable chance that I'll survive, I sure as hell wouldn't self-hammer. That's just giving up.

Out of kontext. Self-hammering iz against ze spirit of ze game. In fakt, joo ask vot I vood do ask scomzh, and my answer is not only GIVEN, but EXPLAINED by ze fakt zat I am morally against self-hammers in general (here)... yet you konveniently left out zis bit of kontext.
I mean, if I am town and zere is a remotely possible chance zat I'll survive, I sure as hell voodn't self-hammah. As Oman said, I am morally opposed to self-hammering, so my scomzh play does not differ from my townzh play in zis instance. Scomzh

almost never

have a reason not to fight. Townzh

never ever

have a reason not to fight.

If Glork is scum with this vote restriction, he

will

fake-claim and he

will

do whatever he can to stay alive. Maybe you can better appreciate why it's important to pressure him as much as possible as soon as possible.

Do you deny zat if I am townzh, I vill do votever it takes to stay alive?

If he was forced into a fake-claim, he'd have less room to move in the future. Basically, the sooner scum are forced to a claim, the more likely the town is to catch them.

At zis point joor jost beink stoopid. By zis logik, anybody we sospekted shood klaim as early as possible. Bot zat doezhn't happen, becoz if ve forced klaims vithout intent to leench (as joo were klaiming joo were doink), zen ve'd basikally massklaim every game by D2 or so. Ze whole point in demanding a klaim is to express villingness to leench immediately. It is ze absolute last resort for a player. No protown player shood klaim until it is MORE benenficial for ze town to klaim zan it is to stay kviet. So vhile joor tryink to give reasons vy "Glork isn't klaiming"

might

indikate zat I am more likely to be ze scomzh, zere are more good examples vy "Glork isn't klaiming" is merely a sign of perfektly normal protownzh play.

[Glork]

Dis soch bad leench.

[Glork]

If Dezh doezh not vind up dead by tomorrow mornink, I vill be very irritated.

[Glork]

I'm goink to kill Dezh.

[Glork]

I

'm goink to

kill

ed

Dezh.

fixed.

unvote

vote:Glork

If I vere vigilante, I vood definitely have done so, so I see vere you're komink from.

I agree vith Caf's assessment of ze Leenchor'zh target. It's hard to "outguess" ze setup, so I kant say for sure zat I think he is protownzh or scomzh. I'm not sure I kood identify Dahill'zh target anyvay.

[Glork]

Hokay, I have had a day or so to think aobout vot hazh happened, and I believe zat Plomzh is ze scomzh.

I vos thinkink, assumink a three-person scomzhgroup, one of Darox's scomzhboddeez probably tried to stave off ze Darox leench vonce ze shit began to hit ze fan. First I looked at ze day-end vote kount. Two people (ozer zan Darox) vere voting for Dezh instead, and I vos of korse supporting a Dezh leench. Hazhkow vos not votink for anybody. I would not be surprised if vone of Darox's scomzhboddez leenched him, bot I do think that lookink at zese four players vos a good place to start.

Plom'zh play in partikular interests me. First, this post:

I was asked about Glork vs. Des.

As far as policy lynching Glork, I actually do see Des's point. I was against the idea until I thought up a hypothetical scenario. Glork being alive at LYLO hurts us more than lynching Glork hurts us. And that's if he's town. If he's scum, that's even more reason to lynch him.

As far as Des, he seems pretty protown IMO.

I honestly think both are town and Glork is a policy lynch at most.

What about Des asking for a claim from Glork earlier today? Still protown?

After KMD veighed in on ze Dezh/Glork thing, she point-blank asked him at anozer angle. It seems to me zat she vos klearly fishink for any way to get somebody (in zis kase, KMD) to jump on Dezh. At zat point, Darox has 4 votes, Dezh had 2. KMD vood make three, and Darox vood obviously svitch to Dezh, making both vagons 4 votes.

Zen, after EK said I don't think we can get a des lynch together before deadline, Plomzh lobbied for EK to veigh in on Dezh again. I really think zat Plomzh vos again lookink for somebody to shift to Dezh so zat he vood bekom ze deadline leench.

Hazkow:

I have a homevork assinment for joo. Even zo joo kant post today, I am not goink to let joo off ze hook. Using ze notes fonktion on zis site (or notepad, or votever joo vont, really), I vont joo to take notes on ze ENTIRE day as it happens. Every time joo see an interesting post/point, argument, or anything zat stiks out to joo, I vont joo to note ze post nomber, and write a sentence (or more) on it. Vonce joo are able to talk again, I vont joo to post ze ENTIRE set of notes in full. If joo are protownzh, a largely objective, stream-of-konsciosness, comprehensive analysis kan be a huge blessink in disgize. If joo DON'T post this tomorrow, I am goink to throttle joo. Joo have no excuse not to do zis, konsiderink joo shood be followink ze game anyvay. Thanks in advance.

[Glork]

Glork early had been all over Darox insisting he was the best lynch only later to state how bad the Darox lynch was.

I looked back on ven I kolled Dezh and Darox obvscomzh, and I honestly have no idea where I got ze Darox-obvscomzh feelink. My alarm at Darox later vos becoz I saw him get 4 votes in somesing like 17 pozhts, vich olmost olvays makes me nervous.

[Glork]

Limited aksess ontil Toosday sometime... sorry, shood have pozhted earlier.

Or bolded, actually

[Glork]

I am back, bot I might not have ze chance to read ze thread ontil tomorrow. Apologies to oll.