ITT we make fun of Amercan education

[Yosarian2]

There are better ways to learn geography then rote learning.

Much more effective is to try and link the fact you are trying to remember to something you already know, to work with it, to use it in different ways, so you connect it with things you already know. In the example you give, you're not talking about rote learning, about someone who can recite off a list of states and capitals but dosn't know anything about any of them; you're talking about real learning, which is all about taking new facts and connecting them to other things you already know; like, in your example, you are able to do that because you have connections between Montgomery, Alabama; between your knowlege of the South in general, both present and historical; and your specific knowlege of the Montgomery bus boycott.

[Yosarian2]

Why would you be in high school if you don't know your multiplication table?

You'd be surprised.

Consumer math classes are the low level math, basically just trying to teach people enough math to balance a check book, figure out change, and such. Basically just trying to help people get the very basic minimum amount of math to allow them to get by in society.

[Yosarian2]

Instead of quickly trying to find someone's true passion and then helping them devote their life to learning about their chosen profession as soon as possible, US society deems it necessary that we all have some "equal" knowledge that must get drilled in our head by teachers whose pay gets determined by sanctioned tests.

Putting the problems of standardized tests aside, I think it's absolutly necessary that, in order to have a democratic society, everyone be brought up to a certain basic level of competence. I don't think you can have democracy without a pretty well educated populace, a group of people that understand what kind of government we have, who have a general understanding of history, and who know enough about science to make sense of the world.

I also think that, in my experence, your average 9th grader is not a good judge of what he should or shouldn't learn. It's also a really bad idea to try and pick someone's profession that early and don't teach them about anything else, especally considering that most people picking their majors in college are still pretty bad at figuring out what career they're going to have.

[Yosarian2]

Well, United States colleges seem to work. Why don't we use that template? I have no background in educational theory, but it seems to be logical.

Well, there's a very different goal. The goal of public school is to try to educate everyone to the best of their ability, to get everyone to learn as much as they can, by dragging them kicking and screaming if necessary. The goal of colleges and universities is to graduate a much smaller elite who are both intellegent and willing to work hard, which is why your average college has a 5 year graduation rate of usually something like 50%-60%, and that's out of the people who did well enough to make it into the college in the first place, but the people who do manage to graduate from a good college generally end up very well educated.

[Yosarian2]

but the people who do manage to graduate from a

good college

generally end up very well educated.

perhaps for some values of "educated" but not by my personal definition of "educated".

edit: I missed the part in bold during my first read. I suspect that 60% of college programs don't qualify as "good".

Hmm. I suppose it depends.

Out of the state colleges in my area of New Jersey, I would say from personal experence that Rutgers College, TCNJ, and Stockton State are all high quality colleges, in very different ways, while Rowan University is pretty bad. All in all, though, my impression is that most state colleges and universities are pretty good.

50-60%? WOW.

One site I found mentioned the national average is 54%.

As I said, that is the 5 year graduation rate, some more people do graduate eventually just not in 5 years.

[Yosarian2]

That's because college professors have a lot of flexability about what to teach, how to teach it, and how to grade stuff, a lot more then individual teachers in high school do. Which IMHO isn't a bad thing; when you get a really bad professor it makes it even worse, but giving a good college professor that kind of flexability makes the class a lot better.

[Yosarian2]

Um, he only referenced his standardized test score when Jath didn't believe that he actually knew chem. Really people...

[Yosarian2]

I know someone who got a 2390 on the SAT.

lol.

back in my day, 1600 was the max score. I guess you kids really are lots smarter than we were.

When they figured out that most people who show up in college are unable to write their way out of a paper bag, they added a third section, writing, for another 800 points.

[Yosarian2]

And yet most colleges don't even look at the writing section.

Really? That's bizzare. Especally considering how many smart college students I knew who were just so incredibly bad at writing they had to take the freshman Expository Writing class 2 or 3 times before they passed it.