Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[Lowell]

Lowell's opinion is also mine.

unvote, vote numberfourteen

[StrangerCoug]

Your stawman argument is that I'm saying what Yos2 meant instead of strawmanning?

What the two of you are saying are not the same. You present me as having then said that I indeed misunderstood MafiaSSK; Yosarian2 is denying that I did so.

Here's what happened:

#88: GnKoichi votes me for "misunderstanding MafiaSSK's statement in a way that I don't think is even possible."
#98: I bring up where I think I

COULD

have misunderstood MafiaSSK; in fact, I offer that the town set the record straight for me if I have indeed misunderstood him in the way I bring up. Nonetheless, I deny the validity of voting someone for misunderstanding a statement.
#99: You vote me for misunderstanding on purpose.
#105: Yosarian2 votes you for not making sense at #105.
#106: GnKoichi unvotes me, but still believes me to be lying as scum can easily say that they misunderstood something to cover up scummy actions. He therefore believes that you are, indeed, making sense at #105.
#116: GnKoichi tells me what exactly I misunderstood—that MafiaSSK was attacking Litral, not me, for "bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning" (to use my actual words); therefore, my attack against MafiaSSK was unjustified.
#124: You think Yosarian2 thinks I am lying about the misunderstanding.
#125: I say that for Yosarian2 to believe that I have both misunderstood and lied would be playing both sides of the fence. I fail to acknowledge #116, still thinking that wagoning vs. bandwagoning is the source of the supposed misunderstanding.
#126: GnKoichi tells me that he already said in #116 that "wagoning vs. bandwagoning" has nothing to do with what I'm being accused of and tells me to read said post.
#128: GnKoichi explains what exactly MafiaSSK and I said.
#132: I finally acknowledge that the misunderstanding GnKoichi is accusing me of is legitimate.
#136: Yosarian2 believes my (original) understanding of MafiaSSK. Once again, he denies that I misunderstood him.
#137: GnKoichi tells Yosarian2 to respond directly to #128.
#138: Yosarian2 finds out that he's guilty of the same misunderstanding that I was. He still thinks your vote on me is scummy.
#143: You ask Yosarian2 if he believes both that I understood correctly and that I wasn't lying when I said I misunderstood.
#144: I vote you for strawmanning Yosarian2.
#145: You question my vote.
#146: I explain Yosarian2's stance on me, keeping in mind that, at the time, neither of us were aware that the misunderstanding had to do with Litral.

Basically, your attack is invalid because part of it violates chronological order of events. The post I'm looking at the most is #128 because that's what made us realize what went wrong with my understanding. You are talking about stuff that happened before that.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Head_Honcho and Numberfourteen.

[GnKoichi]

Coug, that was probably the best analysis you've provided all game. I don't agree with your conclusion, since I don't think you've connected what happened to a strawman argument, and that's your reason for voting. Still, a good turn of play from you.

I'm going to drop a MASSIVE

HoS: Litral & Lowell

for trying to start a random wagon on a lurker instead of asking for a prod. There is no attempt to scum hunt here, and there is A LOT to analyze between myself, Coug, Yosarian, King, Rofl, and everyone else who's actually been participating. No one has any excuse for random voting like this.

[Yosarian2]

So you think that SC understood SSK.
AND
You think SC was not lying when he said he misunderstood?

As far as I can see, this is the only play SC mentioned the word "misunderstood".

If I'm unaware of just plain wagoning and bandwagoning being distinct, then by all means bring that up and straighten that out for me, but misunderstandings are not valid reasons for a vote, whether or not I'm guilty of one.

Nowhere did he do what you're claiming he did, which is "claim to misunderstand/pretend to misunderstand" something SSK said as a defense, or whatever. So, no, he can't be lying about that, *SINCE HE NEVER EVEN SAID IT AT ALL*.

[Yosarian2]

Ah, I see SC already beat me to that point. Ok then.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm going to drop a MASSIVE

HoS: Litral & Lowell

for trying to start a random wagon on a lurker instead of asking for a prod. There is no attempt to scum hunt here, and there is A LOT to analyze between myself, Coug, Yosarian, King, Rofl, and everyone else who's actually been participating. No one has any excuse for random voting like this.

Quoted for truth. I didn't mention roflcopter in my analysis because I felt his posts irrelevant to my argument, but I do know that you have a case on him, and his posts don't look very good (he looks hypocritical about IIoA, and I believe his accusation of you chainsaw defending MafiaSSK to be false).

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP due to crosspost:

Ah, I see SC already beat me to that point. Ok then.

I'm not worried about that.

[Numberfourteen]

ok... Sorry guys, I seem to be in the same boat as Vino, This is my first large game, and I am completely lost. I have gone back a ways and made another read through, and it has helped some.

First off, I want to know, is there a difference between wagoning and bandwagoning? I cannot imagine that there is, but I keep seeing it coming up.

Also what is stawmanning, I have played several small games, and have never heard this term.


I am not sure what the big deal is with the misunderstanding. I could see it being a tell if it was consistantly happening, or if it was just rediculously obvious that the statement could not be understood the way it was. I just don't see either of these as the case right now.

I always have a real hard time forming any strong opinion on people day one, but right now the most suspicious person I can find would be roflcopter. He seems to make alot of posts with very little actual analysis, or input of any sort. Other than that, I jut do not see a whole lot right now. But I could be missing something big, because I am pretty much lost in the whole "misunderstanding" arguement

[StrangerCoug]

First off, I want to know, is there a difference between wagoning and bandwagoning? I cannot imagine that there is, but I keep seeing it coming up.

As far as I am aware and what is supported by the conversation, no.

Also what is stawmanning, I have played several small games, and have never heard this term.

You strawman somebody by subtly misrepresenting what someone is saying and then attacking him or her based on your misrepresentation.

I am not sure what the big deal is with the misunderstanding. I could see it being a tell if it was consistantly happening, or if it was just rediculously obvious that the statement could not be understood the way it was. I just don't see either of these as the case right now.

I always have a real hard time forming any strong opinion on people day one, but right now the most suspicious person I can find would be roflcopter. He seems to make alot of posts with very little actual analysis, or input of any sort. Other than that, I jut do not see a whole lot right now. But I could be missing something big, because I am pretty much lost in the whole "misunderstanding" arguement

The misunderstanding occurred at #78, if it's of any help to you, but it requires reading what happened before that to make sense.

[Natirasha]

Looking for replacements for both orangepenguin and tyhess now. Tell your friends!
Prodding Head_Honcho.

Numberfourteen(2): Litral, Lowell
Penguins of the Serengeti(0):
Lowell(0):
Vino(0):
Head_Honcho(0):
Empking's Alt(3): numberfourteen, Yosarian2, Strangercoug
tyhess(0):
orangepenguin(0):
Yosarian2(0):
roflcopter(1): gnKoichi
MafiaSSK(3): roflcopter, alvinz95, Penguins of the Sarengeti
crywolf20084(0):
StrangerCoug(2): tyhess, Empking's Alt
Litral(2): Head_Honcho, MafiaSSK
alvinz95(0):
GnKoichi(0):

To Lynch: 9
Deadline: February 16

[Head_Honcho]

Hey, sorry, I've been following and have found myself without much to say (first big game as well), going to read through again soon and try to get some analysis out there.

##unvote

[Litral]

Numberfourteen, that opinion of roflcopter is not a weak opinion at all. It is the sort of thing we would like to hear.

Unfortunately for you, because of that, I'm going to keep my vote.

[Lowell]

Coug, that was probably the best analysis you've provided all game. I don't agree with your conclusion, since I don't think you've connected what happened to a strawman argument, and that's your reason for voting. Still, a good turn of play from you.

I'm going to drop a MASSIVE

HoS: Litral & Lowell

for trying to start a random wagon on a lurker instead of asking for a prod. There is no attempt to scum hunt here, and there is A LOT to analyze between myself, Coug, Yosarian, King, Rofl, and everyone else who's actually been participating. No one has any excuse for random voting like this.

I'm just bored. I want to get a solid wagon going on someone, and I don't like either of the two leading candidates.

[Empking's Alt]

Yos: Do you think SC misunderstood?

[GnKoichi]

Litral, please explain your last post as being anything but purely scummy? If a lurker suddenly makes a pro-town post, why would you attack him for it?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I support Koichi's line of questioning.

[StrangerCoug]

Numberfourteen, that opinion of roflcopter is not a weak opinion at all. It is the sort of thing we would like to hear.

Unfortunately for you, because of that, I'm going to keep my vote.

Major HoS: Litral

. Numberfourteen's opinion of roflcopter is not only pro-town but similar to mine.

[MafiaSSK]

I want alvinz95 to answer who he thinks is scum at the moment. With a fully-supported case.

[Litral]

Litral, please explain your last post as being anything but purely scummy? If a lurker suddenly makes a pro-town post, why would you attack him for it?

First of all, I never said it was pro-town, I said it was something we wanted to hear, and we want to hear scumtells, don't we? I also said it was a well thought-out opinion. The lurker should've made it a long, long time ago, not right after two people vote him for lurking. This means to me that Numberfourteen has been reading along and does have something to say, but refrained from saying it without pressure - which is a scumtell.

... please, this is the second time in this game someone has depicted me as some sort of jester.

[StrangerCoug]

Litral, please explain your last post as being anything but purely scummy? If a lurker suddenly makes a pro-town post, why would you attack him for it?

First of all, I never said it was pro-town, I said it was something we wanted to hear, and we want to hear scumtells, don't we? I also said it was a well thought-out opinion. The lurker should've made it a long, long time ago, not right after two people vote him for lurking. This means to me that Numberfourteen has been reading along and does have something to say, but refrained from saying it without pressure - which is a scumtell.

... please, this is the second time in this game someone has depicted me as some sort of jester.

Yet you never explained how Numberfourteen's opinion of roflcopter is scummy in the slightest. This is also a failure to take into account any issues Numberfourteen had. I would not like to leave a game abruptly because I broke my arm and had to go to the hospital, let alone come back a week later to find that I've been lynched as a result.

I also don't like your dismissing our accusations of you as us making you look like a jester. That's awfully cheap.

Unvote: Empking's Alt
Vote: Litral

[Litral]

StrangerCoug, GnKoichi said that I was attacking a pro-town post after saying that it was a pro-town post. That implies that I was being scummy consciously. Doesn't that make me look like a jester? I'm not dismissing anything, though - I might be this really stupid player who does all those scummy things for fun, so I am still arguing.

I don't think the chances of someone having to leave the game and come back right after being voted is high. I do not take this into account because the probability is low.

I never said Numberfourteen's opinion of roflcopter is scummy in itself. I don't need to know whether it's scummy or townie - I just think that if Numberfourteen really had this opinion as a town-sided figure, he more likely would have expressed it earlier. Therefore, he is more likely to be scum-sided.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug, GnKoichi said that I was attacking a pro-town post after saying that it was a pro-town post. That implies that I was being scummy consciously. Doesn't that make me look like a jester?

Acting scummy on purpose does not necessarily make a player a jester—it could also be legitimate scum trying to get bussed as a gambit of some sort. I don't see either, but #162 is heavily noted. As in on 10,000 pieces of paper.

[Yosarian2]

Yos: Do you think SC misunderstood?

Do I think he misunderstood what? I get the feeling that everyone in this conversation is talking about something different because we're all being so vauge.

But none of that's relevent; the key point is, you voted SC because you claimed that he lied, and it looks to me like he didn't even say what you're accusing him of lying about. It really looks to me that you were misrepresenting what SC said, and probably intentionally so, which is why I'm voting for you.

[Litral]

StrangerCoug, GnKoichi said that I was attacking a pro-town post after saying that it was a pro-town post. That implies that I was being scummy consciously. Doesn't that make me look like a jester?

Acting scummy on purpose does not necessarily make a player a jester—it could also be legitimate scum trying to get bussed as a gambit of some sort. I don't see either, but #162 is heavily noted. As in on 10,000 pieces of paper.

Uh, if I were scum and that was a gambit, then most likely either you or GnKoichi is my scumbuddy.