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[Trace0n]

I think the best arguments against kay generally are that shes been relatively flipfloppy this game, kind of feigning being lost and confused and all that. Early on kind of admitted that I was in my town game but then used D2 to backtrack on that to keep me open as a play (understandably from a scum position). "Lost" some big ISO/analysis posts, easy to fake and great free papertrail mitigation as scum and just requires less effort

kitty and gamma been crazy coasting all game but thats the lazy take, Ill try to go back and find some more substantive points but I think this is the birds eye view take

[Tangion]

H

E

Y

What do you need from me?

why do you think is scum?

[Hu Tao]

H

E

Y

What do you need from me?

Town tell. And tell us who you think is scum

[KayJayQueue]

Scum is Trace/Kitty/Gamma

[Gamma Emerald]

Update: I didn’t actually collect my thoughts. I guess I have to now lol

This feels embellished. As well as talking about doing ISOs just to quote the work from yesterday.

[KayJayQueue]

Update: I didn’t actually collect my thoughts. I guess I have to now lol

This feels embellished. As well as talking about doing ISOs just to quote the work from yesterday.

I did that to have everything in one place. No I didn’t do the work of looking into the partner equity during the night phase because I wasn’t really thinking about this game after mcqueen flipped because I knew the scum team at that point.

[Gamma Emerald]

That traitor thing is gonna live rent-free in my head for a bit; when I was talking about how I didn’t think TA was enough to cover 3 goons, I had a thought of “would traitor help town or scum more?” since it doesn’t get caught by TA but loses if its partners die.

[KittyTacky]

Scum wtf are you doinggggg lol

This feels a bit performative tbh

[KittyTacky]

I no longer TR THS very much but I'd still rather we T3

I'm going back and finally reading the ending parts of D2 that I was gone for, and this seems interesting, why was T3 your preferred lim when you had seemingly expressed very strong dislike of THS/sloth just prior?

Because T3 slot was scummy all game and THS slot was scummy for like 3 hours. Townies say scummy things too sometimes.

[KittyTacky]

And I admittedly am a tunneler.

[KittyTacky]

I'm suss of the replacement now

Vote me then coward

I still have better options

<—— all that, not doing that, I read the last page and it looks like my boy was

FRUSTRATED

not sure why we just a VT someone wanna catch me up we will be eternal pals

This makes 2 premature VT claims this game -_-

Do you think either of the claims are suspect? I think sloth’s claim makes sense in the context of seeing a wagon on his predecessor

Neither wagon was close to E-1 is the thing. It's slightly scummy, both of them, but Elements slot was redeemed by the replacement and I somewhat townread THS but like, the whole meltdown just felt not very genuine to me but I rarely see people explode like this so I'll watch the replacement closely.

This looks worse in retrospect. Think Kitty might have been fishing for claims.

Gamma ffs you played with me many times before, you know I don't like people claiming unless necessary.

[KittyTacky]

@Kay: I also thought so but I think there is a world where scum are "underpowered" enough for some of the claims to be mafia. My thinking is that Hu Tao and Tangion are scum neighbor, one being a traitor and the other groupscum. I believe Kitty could be the third in that scenario, which is why I asked that question.

Are traitors in normal games?

No

[petapan]

Vote Count 4.01

Not Voting (7):

Gamma Emerald, Hu Tao, KayJayQueue, KittyTacky, Skelly, Tangion, Trace0n

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 4 is January 16 at 6:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2025-01-16 18:00:00)

[KayJayQueue]

I think Hu/Tangion/Skelly should just have final say over who we vote today. I’m voting with them even if they decide to vote me and we lose (even though at that point, scum would QH anyway)

Gamma/Kitty/Trace would ideally want me to be the lim because it wins them the game. So I think we let the PRs decide who goes today.

Gamma has to say scum is me/kitty/trace
Kitty has to say scum is me/trace/gamma
Trace had to say scum is me/gamma/kitty
I have to say scum is gamma/kitty/trace

Note how all 3 of them have made at least one dig at me or have gone into some bit of detail as to why *I* am scum but haven’t actually called their fellow scum mates scum yet except I guess I’d say Trace gave the solve he needed to so good for him but he’s still scum. Gamma trying to paint any world where the PRs are lying is silly at this point. The pushes they’ve all made against each other this game day are lame and lacking in any conviction whatsoever.

[KayJayQueue]

alright well from my POV if I believe the PR claims, which I do, then it has to be kay/gamma/kitty

I think scum didnt want to go for the yomi 1 play of just trying to shoot skelly or one of the masons because skelly flipping would make people think she died protecting one of the masons thus lending credibility to the claim of the masons because the the obvious BG play on paper is to cover one of the masons. so they shot else where to keep the option open to try to undermine the claims and claim we're in some weird mountainous setup or something even though we already have a flipped PR

looking back archaebobs posts were hot garbage and did absolutely nothing for us, kay did a great job rehabing the slot but like archae's posts have zero scumhunting and calling everyone town and giving reasons for it is super easy to do with you're informed

@ HT @ Tang @ skelly, assuming yall are town I have to convince yall Im town in order for us to win this. I will vote any of the three slots in my POV, whoever yall would like to get force a cross vote with to help yall narrow your POE. because once I vote for one of them when there is no alpha strike it will prove that either me or my vote target is scum. so just direct my vote to any of those three people and I will do it if you believe it will help you sort by narrowing any of those slots to a 50/50. If yall don't want to direct me I will just pick myself but yeah from my POV this is the highest town +EV

not gonna rush it, def down to talk it out with yall if you think there is a better approach

just gonna be real I've done more to move the ball than gamma and kitty combined I think any ISO of our three slots will show that, kay has been playing a strong scum game to her credit and probably honestly has moved the ball more than me but kay is just good so idk what to say really, like I think all the experience players know kay is powerwolf capable

No one thinks I’m power wolf capable lol including Hu and Tang who have both been scum with me. But it is noteworthy that I’m the only one you tried dismantling in this post. Though points for not trying to push the PRs as possible scum lying because no one is going to buy that. If the PRs are lying, this game makes no sense to me. Therefore, I’m not entertaining that world ever. If it causes us to lose, so be it.

I think the best arguments against kay generally are that shes been relatively flipfloppy this game, kind of feigning being lost and confused and all that. Early on kind of admitted that I was in my town game but then used D2 to backtrack on that to keep me open as a play (understandably from a scum position). "Lost" some big ISO/analysis posts, easy to fake and great free papertrail mitigation as scum and just requires less effort

kitty and gamma been crazy coasting all game but thats the lazy take, Ill try to go back and find some more substantive points but I think this is the birds eye view take

An entire paragraph on why I’m sus and a throwaway “kitty/gamma coasting”. Boring. Plus I think I’m most upset that you’d put quotes on “lost” when losing that post is what originally killed my wim for this game. It’s back now but I didn’t lie about that and I don’t see any strategical reason why I’d lie about that and continue to complain to myself about doing so. I was literally just upset at the situation because I put hours into that post.

Update: I didn’t actually collect my thoughts. I guess I have to now lol

This feels embellished. As well as talking about doing ISOs just to quote the work from yesterday.

Gotta find something to sus me for, I guess, since I wasn’t biting with the “PRs could be lying” angle gamma attempted to push.

Scum wtf are you doinggggg lol

This feels a bit performative tbh

I guess you gotta start somewhere. But this post of mine was my genuine reaction because the only option they really had was to kill Skelly and try to push paranoia onto sloth about me being scum and vice versa, and that still allowes them to push the “masons are lying” angle. In my opinion, killing sloth lost the game for scum as long as Hu/tang/skelly can trust me. Because sloth was the only possible other person that could’ve been scum and they removed him from the PoE for me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think I ever saw who skelly’s towncore was, can someone please point out where it was stated?

[Skelly]

THS/TLM, though Idk if it was ever specifically stated.

[KayJayQueue]

Spoiler: Day 2 stuff

either Fire was vigged or they were killed bc scum were PR hunting

I really doubt that analyzing the Fire kill is going to get us anywhere

I’m assuming it was the latter. That’s the only real reason to kill him at this point. Strategically/socially I’d think scum would want him around so this only makes sense if it was done for a mechanical reason.

I disagree. He was blatantly, transparently, and actively town and those players often get killed n1

jokes aside, on a level 1 reading tangion, T3 and Hu Tao were the most likely to have killed based on firestarters scumreads

well I know it was not me or Hu, and T3 was already at the top of my scum list so..
VOTE: T3

Firestarter said that I was "in their scum pile" at one point, questioned 2 of my posts, and that was the extent of their scumread on me

Also, if I'm scum, then I know that they are likely to re-evaluate their other reads after having tunneled gera and gotten gera wrong

Also, if I'm scum, then Firestarter is a much smaller threat to me than you/Hu/KJQ.

I never, ever, kill Firestarter here.

to me this is just a lot of WIFOM, if you had killed one of the threats to you then it might have been linked to you and you would be limmed so you go the oppisite way and come up with this exact defense saying there was no way I would make this kill.

My point is that Firestarter was

not

a significant threat to me, for the reasons I have listed above.

and as I pointed out that is still a viable strategy to kill a non threat to get town cred, especially since you were one of the leading wagons yesterday.

This is what I mean. The way T3 repeats he'd never kill Fire feels... forced. Like it's a play to "clear" himself.

I think scum may just be in the people who were AfK/not paying much attention

in the latter parts of the day

now that it's done, I can say I peeped newbie 2139 and saw THS!scum playing quite similar to here
VOTE: THS

now that it's done, I can say I peeped newbie 2139 and saw THS!scum playing quite similar to here
VOTE: THS

in what way, and how is his town game different?

Similar expression of outrage
I recall him not getting so pissy as town

either Fire was vigged or they were killed bc scum were PR hunting

I really doubt that analyzing the Fire kill is going to get us anywhere

naughty point
VOTE: T3

(Speaking of, i told you about gera. I legit don't see what we gained from that lim)

I was AFK but I probably would have supported the gera lim since I feel like I saw the vision, I think framing it as being for info is potentially disingenuous.

EBWOP

Mcqueen said gera lim would give us a lot of info. What info?

either Fire was vigged or they were killed bc scum were PR hunting

I really doubt that analyzing the Fire kill is going to get us anywhere

I’m assuming it was the latter. That’s the only real reason to kill him at this point. Strategically/socially I’d think scum would want him around so this only makes sense if it was done for a mechanical reason.

I disagree. He was blatantly, transparently, and actively town and those players often get killed n1

He was not widely regarded as obvious town.
There was no noticeable “town leader” that would be prime for being killed N1.

No single town leader but I just didn't see him as one of the possible suspects and I assume most of the rest of the town did too

I’m confused by what you mean by VCA here
I feel like by manipulating votes like you seem to be saying you were, you invalidate any VCA attempts?

I’m confused by what you mean by VCA here
I feel like by manipulating votes like you seem to be saying you were, you invalidate any VCA attempts?

Opposite. If I’m sus of a slot and they listen to me to get on gera who then flipped town, I’d be more wary that they listened to me rather than put up a fight

I may be lacking context, so I’ll leave this be for now.

I would never wagon Hu today and I think the wagon is scum-driven

VOTE: THS

Let's try this for now

Can you explain to me why THS is town

This if WIFOM but I don’t care: name me one scum player that goes through effort to link several games and make case on his scumread (even if he left some out) and then goes and argues with most players in game

Probably 40% of scum players onsite

Yeah I’m calling bullshit. They might link a game or two but not several

I don’t get your point here in general but as a side note I do think it’s not ultra rare for scum to fabricate a large meta case. Had it happen to me once and it made me develop a sort of tell about it.

Remind me of your THS read then

are you genuinely asking?

I think I have been clear that I SR him, so I don’t know why you would need to ask. I don’t see what sticks about my response to you based on that either, I was responding to something that I don’t think actually mattered that much to the point you made about THS.

Spoiler: how do you go from this

Everyone suddenly pushing tangion is the most obvious town miselim of all time scum is definitely there, probably 2

Why don't you get your head out of your ass and actually start refuting some points raised against him and maybe wed listen, you shitheel

VOTE: Hu Tao

Everyone suddenly pushing tangion is the most obvious town miselim of all time scum is definitely there, probably 2

Why don't you get your head out of your ass and actually start refuting some points raised against him and maybe wed listen, you shitheel

Well that's just rude

UNVOTE:

Okay. I got what I needed i think.

Trace is probably town. I like tangion too for town.

archaebob - idk
Elements - idk
Firestarter - leaning town
Gamma Emerald - idk
geraintm - idk
Hu Tao - hu taown
KittyTacky - town
Skelly - idk
T3 - idk
Tangion - town
TheHoldSteady - idk
THE LARGE MAN - idk
Trace0n - town

this game is wild, I didn't expect there to be this much activity today.
I also think that it's wild that I'm getting called out again for not making my reads known, like I am the only player that rarely posts solid reads d1 one in a game.

and I'm pretty sure me and trace have played multiple games before, so I ask you this @traceon does my play style here really seem scum like I have a scum agenda or like I am scum coasting, more than the other games you have played with me? and if so how/why?

This feels very genuine.

Everyone suddenly pushing tangion is the most obvious town miselim of all time scum is definitely there, probably 2

one post reads "very genuine" and suddenly, "wow this is the most obvious town mislim ever" the hyberbole is absolutely fucking fascinating

as fascinating as how garbage your town play is and you constantly like, getting away with it

me placing you at e-6 doesn't mean I want or think you should be limmed

i'm simply using my vote to vent my frustration

you're useless

not even worth responding to

UNVOTE: Hu Tao

i'll wait until someone with half a brain cell comes back online

if you want me to be honest, i think you're generally a detriment to whatever town you're on, so getting rid of you is nearly as good as getting a wolf in my eyes

if you want me to be honest, i think you're generally a detriment to whatever town you're on, so getting rid of you is nearly as good as getting a wolf in my eyes

Is this not just TMIimg that you know Hu is town? I’m confused.

Do you just read her as town but prefer to lim her anyway?

You were voting her so are you just trying to policy lim her? I admit, I’m not caught up or anything yet so if the answers are earlier in the thread, I’ll probably find them. This just strikes me as very odd.

The word "prefer" is misrepresenting.

If I had to make a list of "preferences", Hu Tao would still be pretty far down on my list, a much as she gets on my nerves.

Choosing to ignore 576 and making 632 doesn't feel "solvey" to me, it instead feels like typical "devil on shoulder" scumspew. I think HT is town and Gamma is a wolf.

Can someone, anyone, tell me how they're TR'ing Hu Tao?
Is this all meta or...?

this is very similar to how Hu acted as town

she's very hard to read without meta

I didn't misread her the last two games we were town together for a reason, and I'm usually pretty accurate with my reads

Can someone, anyone, tell me how they're TR'ing Hu Tao?
Is this all meta or...?

Other thing pointing out Hu as town is I agree with Trace that the vote on him was trying to attract wolves to a wagon, which is town for the amount of layera it involves

Their solving is so natural and out of their scum range for both

but you think i'm still in my scum range this is why i'm not listening to a word you say this game

if its wrong, hopefully you all learn your lesson and stop listening to Hu Tao lmao

I suck at reading Hu so I refuse to have her more than 3/4 up my townread ladder as principle but you know, she has a tendency to eventually solve herself.

Spoiler: to this?

VOTE: Hu Tao

geraintm

Gamma Emerald: ISO is worthless. Has done nothing to advance town win con. Devil on shoulder" attitude towards Hu Tao's asinine lim is super wolfy. Should absolutely be a top tier lim candidate for today.
Tangion: still lean scum, but not as strongly towards it as I was yesterday. Maybe I really was conf-biased.

Firestarter

Trace0n: feels town when he's actually here but the lack of activity is kind of disappointing because I know he's a good town solver
mcqueen: Elements was very obviously a bored VT and mcqueen is super townspewed. Strong town read.
KittyTacky: Null
T3: Strong town lean for solve spew.
THE LARGE MAN
KayJayQueue: Could go wolf here.
Hu Tao: I'm just fucking done with her.
Skelly: Strong town read.

TLM is fairly town-spewed.

I think the wolf team is just 3 or 4 of Hu Tao, Tangion, Gamma, Kitty.

TLM is fairly town-spewed.

I think the wolf team is just 3 or 4 of Hu Tao, Tangion, Gamma, Kitty.

Or Kay. 3 or 4 of Hu, Tangion, Gamma, Kitty, Kay.

I know that everyone is against this because

unexplained meta

but idc. Following gut here.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I know y'all will just tell me how wrong I am but there comes a point where you have to vote on your feels in

this

game.
I feel like THS was the one who talked me down from this yesterday and yet here you are pushing him

again

.
For no stated reason besides 'performative'?
Someone said your constant vote hopping was how you were solving yet not seeing anything actually being solved.

there is a very slim chance that I could be wrong about Hu but I feel very good about town locking and not voting there!

this pocket is so fishy, he's literally only saying this because HT refuses to let him be limmed. it's an inverted chainsaw

don't know why on earth so many of you think this guy is town

You seem to have turned 180 degrees overnight on your Hu read here. I don’t quite see the natural progression from townread to scumread. Can you walk me through why?

Ngl I’m not sure if THS is frustrated town or not. I can completely understand this progression coming from town that is frustrated with the antics of Hu, and I’ve seen town do similar things before.

On the other hand, THS’ frustration seems contrived - Hu is not a centerpiece of the game in the same way that she was for a large part of yesterday. I just don’t think that a reasonable town player would express the same level of frustration with Hu today as THS expressed yesterday.

On the other other hand, I don’t see what scum!THS has to gain from constantly talking about his frustration with Hu today. Hu is probably not going to go through today - although it is possible. All it does is make THS the center of attention, and not in a good way.

I lean towards THS having scum equity for this, but I am not sure.

T3 - Do you feel like being reasonable or unreasonable = scum? You're saying the frustration is contrived yet do you not think that given he 'expressed that same level of frustration yesterday' that Hu voting him today with no reasoning again wouldn't provoke the same response?

I don't think that unreasonableness is scummy, if anything, it's towny. I do not think it would provoke the same response - I'm not sure what THS expects from Hu.

I'm genuinely frustrated with the idea that "she's unreasonable every game so you just have to deal with it" when any other player, they would be eliminated immediately. Plus that every case for Tao being town has to do with meta, when she's already difficult to meta read

I am a bit frustrated with her play too, I do think that she should explain herself more. However, I am uninterested in limming her.

I think Trace0n is the best flip, but it also feels like a cop-out to vote him at this point in the day

This gamestate sucks

@my town core do you think T3 and or THS have more or less town equity today than yesterday or do you think at least one of them is scum?

T3's last few posts have better reasoning than his d1 posts but I still suss him.

I think some worlds are like potentially from some basic ass VCA(I’m not really all that good at it):
Trace, Kitty, T3, Hu, Gamma, LARGE
I think some worlds where T3 / Kitty are paired or like LARGE / trace, could also see some worlds where it could be t3 / trace, if there’s some mech reason it cannot be these people so be it, I’m just giving some ideas, just based on some of the VCs

I’m gonna go do a big sleep now I’ll talk more tomorrow if yall don’t just lim me give me something to bounce ideas off of

This if WIFOM but I don’t care: name me one scum player that goes through effort to link several games and make case on his scumread (even if he left some out) and then goes and argues with most players in game

Probably 40% of scum players onsite

Yeah I’m calling bullshit. They might link a game or two but not several

I have been told this many times I have only seen a handful of high effort scum myself but I have heard a lot about high effort scum so idk maybe it was a thing more before my time on this site?

They always say how not uncommon it is but fail to provide examples. I’m sure if 40% of scum do it, he can name one or two examples.

Look around the large theme queue and find a game with actually good players, you’ll pretty quickly see high-effort scum there

I should note that I skimmed through 2 of THS’ scumgames and he actually made noticeably less effort in those scumgames than in this game, and his thoughts had less depth

Burden of proof is on you since you claim almost half the players do it. They don’t, that’s the point. Large Games require more effort by default.

Okay, well I was wrong.

I assumed that THS’ scumrange included making high-effort posts. The evidence that I have seen so far indicates that this is probably incorrect, however, N=2 so it’s impossible to say with certainty.

If all else fails, I wills join you on a Trace wagon today.

If all else fails, sure.

Honestly, I feel unusually good about my PoE. I don’t think I’ve had this much confidence in my reads in a while. I don’t know whether that’s a good sign or a bad sign

I also do not see a good reason for TLM to bus Traceon here. He probably could have gotten away with pushing THS or pushing a vanity wagon on someone unlikely to go through. I don’t think TLM and Trace are 100% not partnered, but I can’t see why he would randomly push his AFK partner when a popular wagon on THS already exists. Even if THS is scum, he clearly was not in the right mental state at the time and probably has a lower change of endgaming than Traceon.

What I have realized from my PoE, is that in basically every single world, this guy is scum:

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma’s ISO is shorter than any living player. 1/3 of his posts are fluff, and the other 2/3 of his posts consist of content with less depth than a kiddie pool.

I think Trace0n is the best flip, but it also feels like a cop-out to vote him at this point in the day

This gamestate sucks

Someone hammer please

I would never wagon Hu today and I think the wagon is scum-driven

VOTE: THS

Let's try this for now

Can you explain to me why THS is town

This if WIFOM but I don’t care: name me one scum player that goes through effort to link several games and make case on his scumread (even if he left some out) and then goes and argues with most players in game

Probably 40% of scum players onsite

Yeah I’m calling bullshit. They might link a game or two but not several

I have been told this many times I have only seen a handful of high effort scum myself but I have heard a lot about high effort scum so idk maybe it was a thing more before my time on this site?

They always say how not uncommon it is but fail to provide examples. I’m sure if 40% of scum do it, he can name one or two examples.

Look around the large theme queue and find a game with actually good players, you’ll pretty quickly see high-effort scum there

I should note that I skimmed through 2 of THS’ scumgames and he actually made noticeably less effort in those scumgames than in this game, and his thoughts had less depth

hmm actually.
VOTE: T3
i can believe that day 1 t3 vs traceon was theatre given how he's treating the slot now.

I'm self-hammered as a Gambit you all can turn this around with the context of my flip while we still have 1-2 mislims left. Hu Tao can finally move into other things and so can the rest of you. Plus this game hasn't been great for my mental health.

OK what the fuck why would town do this

I'm suss of the replacement now

<—— all that, not doing that, I read the last page and it looks like my boy was

FRUSTRATED

not sure why we just a VT someone wanna catch me up we will be eternal pals

This makes 2 premature VT claims this game -_-

I no longer TR THS very much but I'd still rather we T3

if my reads are even close to right this is a very self sabotaging town

Well who is sitting by and letting it happen? That’s probably scum.

I bet t3 and Tangion are town here

why?

It was gut based on like that page frustration I saw when I first came in. I’ve since changed my mind on t3

Gamma’s ISO is shorter than any living player. 1/3 of his posts are fluff, and the other 2/3 of his posts consist of content with less depth than a kiddie pool.

Oh I see like 3 posts later, seems NAI though but could be gamma as comfy scum

I'm suss of the replacement now

Vote me then coward

I still have better options

<—— all that, not doing that, I read the last page and it looks like my boy was

FRUSTRATED

not sure why we just a VT someone wanna catch me up we will be eternal pals

This makes 2 premature VT claims this game -_-

Do you think either of the claims are suspect? I think sloth’s claim makes sense in the context of seeing a wagon on his predecessor

Neither wagon was close to E-1 is the thing. It's slightly scummy, both of them, but Elements slot was redeemed by the replacement and I somewhat townread THS but like, the whole meltdown just felt not very genuine to me but I rarely see people explode like this so I'll watch the replacement closely.

i can believe that day 1 t3 vs traceon was theatre given how he's treating the slot now.

If he actually, like, comes back and posts, then I'm willing to wagon him. But I don't want to waste my vote. Voting Traceon in the early stages of the day, when he's completely AFK makes no sense! It'll just stagnate the gamestate further. I have explicitly expressed my desire to vote Traceon when he is engaged with the game, in such a way that I can be held accoutable.

I think Trace0n is the best flip, but it also feels like a cop-out to vote him at this point in the day

This gamestate sucks

Someone hammer please

Can you explain to me why THS is town

This if WIFOM but I don’t care: name me one scum player that goes through effort to link several games and make case on his scumread (even if he left some out) and then goes and argues with most players in game

Probably 40% of scum players onsite

Yeah I’m calling bullshit. They might link a game or two but not several

I have been told this many times I have only seen a handful of high effort scum myself but I have heard a lot about high effort scum so idk maybe it was a thing more before my time on this site?

They always say how not uncommon it is but fail to provide examples. I’m sure if 40% of scum do it, he can name one or two examples.

Look around the large theme queue and find a game with actually good players, you’ll pretty quickly see high-effort scum there

I should note that I skimmed through 2 of THS’ scumgames and he actually made noticeably less effort in those scumgames than in this game, and his thoughts had less depth

hmm actually.
VOTE: T3
i can believe that day 1 t3 vs traceon was theatre given how he's treating the slot now.

One day I’ll read ahead when live going through,

VOTE: t3 I believe this is where I’m at especially if there was some theatre, I could move to gamma or trace and would rather move to Hu

There was not "theater," there was "Traceon scumreading me for obviously ridiculous reasons and me rightfully voting him for it and him getting angry and me and us eventually reconciling our anger"

t3 wagon feels a bit too easy?

maybe it is just gamma idk. my only solid scumread is afk and the rest of the game just feels like town arguing with each other

t3 wagon feels a bit too easy?

Does it? It hasn’t gone through

the fact that they are very quickly e-1 with a town that seem quite split was spooky. i've just convinced myself it's actually fine - assuming traceon is afk i think there's enough candidates for the third partner based on reactions

Okay so going back through D2 I wanted to see scum reactions to gera/Firestarter and how the push on T3 happened.

Some interesting things to note:

Kitty overstating how obvtown firestarter was feels…disingenuous. Maybe obvtown to someone with TMI.

Pushing back on mcqueen for gera VCA is clearly to get a wrong read to push since scum was all off wagon. Kitty/Trace ended D1 voting T3 (who was voting their partner gamma) and I believe they wanted to leave gera alive to push D2 and thought the T3 wagon would go through.

Gamma was pushing THS and there was support so it makes sense to keep pushing as scum.

T3 was calling out the scum team hard. Trace was being given a pass for being absent. Literally the vibe was “if he comes back and engages with this I think he would be a good vote” so Trace had EVERY reason to never show his face in thread until T3 was dead. (I guarantee if T3 wasn’t mislimmed he would’ve been the night kill)

TLM was also digging around scum and I guess his crumb was too obvious so since T3 was limmed, TLM was an obvious kill to protect scum.

Kitty saw T3 closing in on their team and instead of helping push through the THS wagon which could’ve easily gone through, they push back on T3 the guy with sus on both partners. (Plus leaves THS to be a possible mislim the next day)

sloth reps in and immediately has a PoE solve with all scum in it. Maybe this is why sloth died last night? Not sure.

[KayJayQueue]

Spoiler: day 3 stuff

VOTE: Trace

Vote Count 2.07

T3 (6):

THE LARGE MAN, sloththeholy, KittyTacky, Skelly, Tangion, Hu Tao

Hu Tao (1):

mcqueen

Gamma Emerald (1):

T3

Not Voting (3):

Trace0n, Gamma Emerald, KayJayQueue

With 11 alive, it took 6 to eliminate.

This elim feels a bit stinky with how suddenly happened but after open 932 I have pretty lowered standards on that

If Hu only one who noticed this so far and came to conclusion she had Trace to indite, why you think scum NK TLM in first place? Obvious setup to kill trace today

Quick question, do you think scum had any idea TLM was TA?

If Hu only one who noticed this so far and came to conclusion she had Trace to indite, why you think scum NK TLM in first place? Obvious setup to kill trace today

Quick question, do you think scum had any idea TLM was TA?

They certainly had a clue

Literally vote me then, town doesn’t deserve to win this game. You all are so fucking tunneled.

VOTE: Kay

This game was lost as soon as my catchup post got deleted and I don’t give a shit anymore.

You’re all saying I’m scum and I’m not going to deal with this in elo which is probably tomorrow anyway.

This is town.

I wanna hear the cases on trace, I was kinda feeling that a bit yesterday

Claims

Gamma Emerald
Hu Tao - Mason
KayJayQueue - VT
KittyTacky
mcqueen
Skelly
sloththeholy
Tangion - Mason
Trace0n

Gamma should go next

Actually just claim in next post whoever posts

Trace skelly gamma kitty claim in next posts pls

UNVOTE:

Now that Hu/Tang/Kay worlds have just been obliterated maybe I’ll try

I mean we got pretty good odds to hit, TLM role makes more sense with masons he gets a false positive on yall

Oh so I can’t AtE but you can? This man just can’t fathom being wrong lol

If Hu/tang are making this play as scum, more power to them lmao

We got time I wanna see what Kitty, Gamma, Trace and Skells all gots to say about what’s transpired today

I'm Odd Night Bodyguard – I guarded THS N1. Thought he was a PR the way he reacted getting run up and because of:

If there is a vigilante, please nk steady for free scum

on it!

I crumbed my role here:

this game will have good guys, bad guys and explosions as far as the eye can see!

Are you a good guy, a bad guy, or an explosion?

um yes.

or did you mean in the game?

I mean.

I'm probably a good guy with a chance to spontaneously combust.

In game and irl. You never know!

DAMNIT KAY

TLM, Skelly, Hu/Tang. That’s probably all the town power, right?

That's a surprising kill

...what is so surprising about it, he made the most blatant soft investigative PR claim ever late the previous day.

I admit, I kinda trusted Hu Tao most of the game. The behavior today makes me doubt that somewhat

I admit, I kinda trusted Hu Tao most of the game. The behavior today makes me doubt that somewhat

You don’t trust the claim?

Look at alive players. Sloth couldn’t be NKed because it proves THS was town. Kitty and Skelly defended THS I believe? Ik Skelly did need to double check on Kitty. Same as me. Only ones left are TLM, Trace, Gamma in Hu/Tang/Kay world. Why not kill lower info roles in Trace and Gamma instead of TLM?

If I a townie saw the blatant soft by TLM probably scum did too

I admit, I kinda trusted Hu Tao most of the game. The behavior today makes me doubt that somewhat

You don’t trust the claim?

I didn't get to that point in my catchup yet

Claims

Gamma Emerald
Hu Tao - Mason
KayJayQueue - VT
KittyTacky
mcqueen
Skelly
sloththeholy
Tangion - Mason
Trace0n

Gamma should go next

VT

We got time I wanna see what Kitty, Gamma, Trace and Skells all gots to say about what’s transpired today

I’m curious how much of McQueen’s read on HuTang was individual
I kinda feel sketch about him given he accurately ID’d the mason partners

I admit, I kinda trusted Hu Tao most of the game. The behavior today makes me doubt that somewhat

You don’t trust the claim?

I didn't get to that point in my catchup yet

Claim pls

Sorry for missing day start Ill get caught up by tonight, had to jump right back into work this week and got caught up with backlogged shit

Claim pls

Trace did well day 1 and seemed towny but he’s now mirroring his scum play from Mystery game.

Sorry for completely missing D2, legit just got slammed with work after being on vacation the entire previous one and didnt have time to read the game. By the time I had time to sit and read the game uninterrupted hammer already dropped

I am caught up though now atleast. Not in a great spot either with TLM getting NKd after he was starting to push my slot late D2. I stand on my D1 play though I def think I was moving the ball in earnest and T3 figured out I was coming from a town POV from our spat so trust his read there

Ok so first

I'm masons with Tangion. We softed a billion times, I thought it was obvious after day 1 but I guess not to mafia

glad this elephant in the room has now been addressed. I couldnt believe no one confronted tangion about softing a PR all day 2. I was certain tangion was a PR and thought he had some investigative inno or something on Hu based on a handful of posts he made re: trusting HT for some mysterious reason. Im actually shocked that tangion wasnt the NK because I thought he was softing so obviously. Before I saw this mason claim I was very suspicious of HT/tang being mates but I dont think they pull a gambit like this risking 2 scum slots when they would already be so far ahead as scum. If they are scum trying to bait PRs I think thats a losing EV for them because even if they get a miselim here, assuming we arent already in melo, then we just flip them both back to back and town essentially catches up for free. I also agree that masons makes sense in the setup with flipped TA to blunt TAs power

Hu doesn’t actually think Tangion is funny, confirmed lol

funnily enough I kind of called HT on this early on, I posted asking if anyone actually believed that HT legit laughed at the joke lmao I feel so vindicated

T3 wagon need looking into big time, I havent been able to reread the EODs again specifically to look at how the pile ons happened so thats my plan to get back into this

Also Im a VT. I understand that it probably seems like TLM had a guilty on me but he def didnt, unless theres some way to mess with those results. I think me disappearing spooked him which is fair. The way he discussed my slot it felt more like he was souring on my slot late in the day phase, not immediately from day start, which wouldnt make sense if he had a guilty on me from start of D2. He likely would have been pushing me much earlier and more consistently if he had a guilty on me. Basically him actually having real progression my slot slot in the middle of D2, and not right away, kind of proves he didnt have PR info on my slot from targetting me N1

Going to wait until all claims are finished before giving full reads but once all claims are in I am going to reread the EOD progression of both days and narrow down the best solves

I don’t understand why kitty was catching up but then didn’t claim or comment on the other claims.

Town: me/Hu/Tangion and I believe Skelly

cleared from TLM: Sloth

PoE: Gamma/Kitty/mcqueen/Trace

3 are scum.

If mcqueen is doing all this as scum, I’m going to be so annoyed lol but I guess you do what you think you gotta do as scum.

Hu - you said you were sure Kitty is town. Do you still feel this way and could you go into a bit if so?

I don’t understand why kitty was catching up but then didn’t claim or comment on the other claims.

Seconded.

I think mcqueen is just too far deep in that tunnel.

That would mean scum is gamma/kitty/trace if you think McQueen is town. Do you think that fits? I guess I’m in the PoE too

Kay/gamma/kitty/trace/mcqueen is the real PoE. I obviously know I’m town but I think we should get everyone’s opinion on this PoE and who they think the team is. I’ll reread those 4 ISOs.

I have no interest in entertaining worlds where Hu/tang/skelly/sloth are scum and if McQueen keeps pushing on a world with anyone of these 4 in it, I’m going to push him instead.

If you actually think Gamma is scum then I just accept loss now.

Ok. What about Kitty/Trace?

I think mcqueen is just too far deep in that tunnel.

That would mean scum is gamma/kitty/trace if you think McQueen is town. Do you think that fits? I guess I’m in the PoE too

Kay/gamma/kitty/trace/mcqueen is the real PoE. I obviously know I’m town but I think we should get everyone’s opinion on this PoE and who they think the team is. I’ll reread those 4 ISOs.

I have no interest in entertaining worlds where Hu/tang/skelly/sloth are scum and if McQueen keeps pushing on a world with anyone of these 4 in it, I’m going to push him instead.

Ngl, I don't like your exchanges with THS but willing to table. I think mcqueen in just stuck.

So I think best options today are between
Kitty/Gamma/Trace

I think mcqueen is just too far deep in that tunnel.

That would mean scum is gamma/kitty/trace if you think McQueen is town. Do you think that fits? I guess I’m in the PoE too

Kay/gamma/kitty/trace/mcqueen is the real PoE. I obviously know I’m town but I think we should get everyone’s opinion on this PoE and who they think the team is. I’ll reread those 4 ISOs.

I have no interest in entertaining worlds where Hu/tang/skelly/sloth are scum and if McQueen keeps pushing on a world with anyone of these 4 in it, I’m going to push him instead.

Ngl, I don't like your exchanges with THS but willing to table. I think mcqueen in just stuck.

So I think best options today are between
Kitty/Gamma/Trace

Why not claim Masons yesterday if Traffic Analyst was in play?

Why would any of us know that specific role was in play?

Also Kitty was only one against Gera wagon D1 so Kitty lim is bad today also lol

Couldn’t that have been TMI? Kitty knows we would’ve gone after gera d2 if he was still there because he’s too hard to solve and it would be easy to get a mislim d1 and another d2 on gera. I don’t think pushing to not lim gera is a reason to not sus kitty.

Especially because wasn’t kitty on the T3 wagon? So T3 is also town why would kitty be given a pass for not wanting to lim gera when they were voting a different town? Unless I’m remembering incorrectly.

Any other claim than VT is just dumb here so Kitty claiming is worthless

So you believe the masons now that’s a good start. I’m glad you aren’t in denial lol

Trace should still claim his partner regardless, but other PRs claiming today is dumb imo.

He claimed VT - meaning he is saying he has no partner.

Mcqueen, TLM did not have a guilty on me, his progression on me D2 makes zero sense if he had a guilty on me, or any result on me, at start of D2, this is obvious, please stop pushing that narrative

Im a VT, I am not in any masonry, neighborhood, or any PT for that matter

I was busy all day.

I honestly thought I was seeing something but as it turns out I was just tunneled. I'm sorry t3.

I'm VT.

Will respond to stuff I. 8 hr it's latte hdgr

so just to add to the conversation we can agree on the soft inno on sloth from TLM right?

I believe that more than a soft guilty on Trace.

I still would rather see what the others have to say before we move forward kitty will get back to us soon, and so will Gamma with more info,

Yeah after all that ^ I will

What are you trying to say?

Gamma Emerald - VT
Hu Tao - Mason
KayJayQueue - VT
KittyTacky - VT
mcqueen - VT
Skelly - BG
sloththeholy - VT
Tangion - Mason
Trace0n - VT

Fixed.

What are the odds of there being a traitor

I still would rather see what the others have to say before we move forward kitty will get back to us soon, and so will Gamma with more info,

Yeah after all that ^ I will

What are you trying to say?

Waiting on more people to weigh in is what I was saying specifically you and Kitty

I still would rather see what the others have to say before we move forward kitty will get back to us soon, and so will Gamma with more info,

Yeah after all that ^ I will

What are you trying to say?

Waiting on more people to weigh in is what I was saying specifically you and Kitty

okay

I don’t understand why kitty was catching up but then didn’t claim or comment on the other claims.

I was distracted and busy. Sorry

I dunno what I can say about the VT claims. All either expected or were claimed already. The BG claim makes sense with Skelly's somewhat nonchalant playstyle tbh; BG's purpose is to get killed at night and a claim just does the same thing really.

The mason claim from Hu Tao explains the somewhat buddy behavior around Tangion. I was beginning to doubt them a bit overnight but wasn't sure. Now ok I'm fine binning Hu and Tangion as town

I think mcqueen is just too far deep in that tunnel.

That would mean scum is gamma/kitty/trace if you think McQueen is town. Do you think that fits? I guess I’m in the PoE too

Kay/gamma/kitty/trace/mcqueen is the real PoE. I obviously know I’m town but I think we should get everyone’s opinion on this PoE and who they think the team is. I’ll reread those 4 ISOs.

I have no interest in entertaining worlds where Hu/tang/skelly/sloth are scum and if McQueen keeps pushing on a world with anyone of these 4 in it, I’m going to push him instead.

This makes sense

I kinda trust mcqueen. I'm not sure if I really trust you. More likely it's: you, Gamma, trace maybe. idk. nobody else fits

In this game it's been oddly hard for me to scumread anyone. Maybe I'm rusty

Like, I TR trace yes but. Who else

Skelly?

I think mcqueen is just too far deep in that tunnel.

That would mean scum is gamma/kitty/trace if you think McQueen is town. Do you think that fits? I guess I’m in the PoE too

Kay/gamma/kitty/trace/mcqueen is the real PoE. I obviously know I’m town but I think we should get everyone’s opinion on this PoE and who they think the team is. I’ll reread those 4 ISOs.

I have no interest in entertaining worlds where Hu/tang/skelly/sloth are scum and if McQueen keeps pushing on a world with anyone of these 4 in it, I’m going to push him instead.

Ngl, I don't like your exchanges with THS but willing to table. I think mcqueen in just stuck.

So I think best options today are between
Kitty/Gamma/Trace

Why not claim Masons yesterday if Traffic Analyst was in play?

TMI?

Also can someone show me where this TLM guilty was on trace or did he just think he was a good lim over T3?

Here’s why I asked: isn’t the standard 2v7 and one additional scum for every two extra town? And Masons are considered strong on this site. Existence of Masons is basically confirmed, since TLM had Traffic Analyst guilty on Trace and HuTang claimed Masons. So even if I’m right on HuTang, Trace is in Masonry. So 4v9 could theoretically be balanced, but I’m not sure how Traffic Analyst affects it. Gut says it adds favor to scum tbh, but highly dependent on what other PRs there are.

Since Trace is in some kind of PT regardless, he should claim who his “Mason” partner is so they can confirm. Then we decide to lim in HuTang/Trace+partner today. Does that work instead of my raw tunnel?

are you reading the game? where are you getting this idea that there is a guilty on trace? trace already claimed vt if there is a guilty on trace they are not claiming it or a partner, so if you can find and point to this guilty we can just lim trace.

1626 and 1627

Also can the site stop randomly being slow as shit, thanks

Oh this kinda makes sense, it's prob trace

So Poe is : Kay/gamma/kitty/trace/mcqueen

I would order it like:
Gamma
kitty
Trace
mcqueen/Kay

GTH it’s gamma kitty trace and town has just been some silly geese’s this game so that’s where I wanna vote and hope to whatever god you believe in the wool isn’t being pulled over our eyes by The HuTang Clan

@sloth: What do you mean why do I think that? A mislim here likely puts us in ELo tomorrow; limming on a wagon scum was almost surely on is more mechanically correct than trying to scumhunt off-wagon right now.

Vote Count 1.15 (FINAL)

geraintm (7):

Firestarter, THE LARGE MAN, mcqueen, Hu Tao, KayJayQueue, Skelly, TheHoldSteady

T3 (2):

Trace0n, KittyTacky

Gamma Emerald (2):

T3, Tangion

TheHoldSteady (1):

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (1):

geraintm

With 13 alive, it took 7 to eliminate.

Vote Count 2.07

T3 (6):

THE LARGE MAN, sloththeholy, KittyTacky, Skelly, Tangion, Hu Tao

Hu Tao (1):

mcqueen

Gamma Emerald (1):

T3

Not Voting (3):

Trace0n, Gamma Emerald, KayJayQueue

With 11 alive, it took 6 to eliminate.

And how does that take Kitty out of the PoE? Kitty was on T3's wagon.

The only living overlap between both wagons is Hu Tao and Skelly. I believe Bodyguard claim over Masons claim, because what use does scum have in claiming Bodyguard?

We lim one Mason claim today, preferably Hu Tao. If she somehow flips town, then Trace is back on table as scum and Kitty could easily be a partner. But it makes zero sense to lim Kitty today (since I say Trace is off-table) because if it's a mislim, going into ELo with unresolved Masons is not good.

How are we so sure scum was on it ? I’m pretty sure they were more likely off, or more were off anyhow if you look at that overlap you come to trace and gamma

I’m not taking kitty off of my Poe, I meant off of my poe that I put what we have left is kitty which is a good vote if you’re only wanting to vote on wagon ,

I’m not voting the outed masons or bg claim today look for others to help you there but you’re not gonna convince me of that vote right now

How would you see the setup as balanced if the mason claims are scum? I think town is severely outgunned in that scenario, even if the team is 3 goons.

Obviously more PRs that have no reason to claim rn.

You mean you think a PR claimed VT? Why? Sounds like a good way for the PR to get hung when they claim anything. Unless it's like a night 4 vig or whatever

I'm down to just eliminate McQueen so he can stop clogging the thread with nonsense

VOTE: McQueen

That sounds like the best plan.

Skelly just be on one of me or tangion tonight. We will leave each other our reads anyway

I plead the fifth

So you just want to not help at all? That’s even more reason to vote you.

If mcqueen is town, scum is going to love this. I’m going to make them show themselves to vote him out if he’s town. Hu/sloth are both town votes, skelly/tangion would also be a town vote. I mean the scum team is shown if McQueen flips town: it’s just trace/kitty/gamma. Obviously I’m in the PoE technically but from mpov it’s solved.

In other news with the claimed town power we have, what do we think scum has?

If you’re town, gamma is absolutely scum. You think traffic analyst was the only town PR? What world are you living in lol

Unless sloth is specifically the godfather I guess is the only way those 3 specifically aren’t the scum team with McQueen being town. Didn’t think about that but don’t want to entertain it yet.

I'm starting to feel like he's trying to set up this very elo situation.

Where he is in it with masons and his partner claims some dumb role and they win because

SEE ITYS GUIS

and links back to all this.

How does this make any sense lmao

Now you're going to play dumb?

Welp!
VOTE: mcqueen

Bro, we not in ELo, why would PR claim rn unless results are useful. They just get killed tonight.

ELo PR claims generally get distrusted because they can be used by weak-link scum to deflect getting voted, increasing the chance scum wins

Godfather doesn’t beat a traffic analyst I do not believe

GF wouldn’t be allowed unless game was complex and it was announced in the OP

Alright so I dont really think we have reason to doubt the PR claims at this point. In a 10v3 I think masons, BG, and TA as town power makes sense. Im guessing scum have two PRs and a goon

As far as Im aware godfather only causes cop investigations to give the wrong result, not chat checks, and assuming gamma isnt misrepresenting the simple game rules it sounds like godfather cant be a thing anyway

So trusting the PRs, my POE is

Gamma Emerald
KayJayQueue
KittyTacky
mcqueen
sloththeholy

I think Kay is town by play but her AtE I could see being within scumrange so I could just be getting snowed here but I dont think shes the play

I thought THS was also towny by play so thats making me not see sloth as a play here

Gamma has been sideliney all game, jumping in with commentary here and there but relatively shallow all around and there doesnt seem to be any urgency coming from the slot which is weird to me as from a town POV the ship is sinking fast

Elements' slot did nothing other than quickclaim VT under almost zero pressure and then mcqueen really did some heavy effort posting to rehab the slot but at this point is pushing narratives with tenuous basis with a level of confidence I dont think the available evidence justifies at all. Could be tunneled townie but he completely ignored my rebuttal argument as to why TLMs play makes it clear he didn't have any results on me and just continued pushing that narrative. That came off crazy scummy to me, I could only see that coming from a townie who was legit convinced I was scum and just decided to ignore my slot, but here it feels more like he is just trying to not give my response to the TLM centered case against me air and just hope others agree with his assessment on TLM to push me through

Kitty has been relatively inscutable for me this game, kind of a firm null all game and after this POE its the only slot left that makes sense as scum to me

I still want to go back and reread how the wagins evolved to try to sort thru these 5 VT claims a bit more thoroughly, but thats where my head is at right now. I do not want to rush this day phase with elim or lose around the corner if we get it wrong

i'm convinced someone on ths wagon is scum. based on position it's most likely you or tangion and your iso today is worse

how are you convinced that THS was not scum?

activity + meta + i dont see scum motivations behind a lot of what he was doing

also a secret other thing

I think these posts prove that TLM N1d THS and got a "no chat" result, and if TLM N1d THS then he could not have possibly had any result on me.

Also his huge case post in #1626 does not come from someone who has a guilty on me. He was actually trying to sort me there, the level of effort is obvious. If he had a guilty on me and wanted to try to communicate that without claiming he would've stuck to that case and continued to push me. But instead he let off and end up voting kay and T3 after. That is not the behavior of someone with a guilty, thats someone with a hunch that they are trying to explain to others to get them to understand the case

Mcqueen I saw you say you didnt want to lim me because I wasnt on the T3 wagon but you still continued to push the "TLM prob had guilty on trace" nonsense even after I addressed it and you didnt respond to my take on the issue at all

Im not saying mcqueen and me have to me TvS I'm just saying you repeating that bullshit and not even addressing my defense directly felt grime af

Im not saying mcqueen and me have to me TvS I'm just saying you repeating that bullshit and not even addressing my defense directly felt grime af

You’re either TvS or SvS from where I’m standing, knowing only 1 of mcqueen/gamma/kitty/trace is town.

Like I understand my D2 really undercutting my townspew D1 because you saw me hella coast as scum in mystery game. But I think my progression on T3 is objectively townspew, I was legitimately trying to sort the slot and even T3 saw that himself from our clash

I def will be reviewing the EODs to provide some more meaningful content to help yall sort me

No use trying to figure out what mafia have

Hey you locked kitty as town early, is there anything specific? Do you still have this opinion?

If I missed it, I’m sorry.

Like I understand my D2 really undercutting my townspew D1 because you saw me hella coast as scum in mystery game. But I think my progression on T3 is objectively townspew, I was legitimately trying to sort the slot and even T3 saw that himself from our clash

I def will be reviewing the EODs to provide some more meaningful content to help yall sort me

Okay look. If we lim mcqueen and he’s town, I literally have no choice but to believe you’re scum. Nothing else makes sense. I get that you would then be forced to push back on me too but I honestly don’t know what else we’re supposed to do here.

Skelly what’s your solve did I miss it with all this McSpam or what lol

My only solve rn is don't kill the masons.
And my only advice if I die is don't kill the masons.

Skelly what’s your solve did I miss it with all this McSpam or what lol

My only solve rn is don't kill the masons.
And my only advice if I die is don't kill the masons.

I was the one defending them before they claimed, which in any other non-mason world could’ve made me look realllly dumb lol I’m definitely not limming them ever now that they’ve claimed.

Skelly what’s your solve did I miss it with all this McSpam or what lol

My only solve rn is don't kill the masons.
And my only advice if I die is don't kill the masons.

I was the one defending them before they claimed, which in any other non-mason world could’ve made me look realllly dumb lol I’m definitely not limming them ever now that they’ve claimed.

Then get your ass on this wagon with the rest of town.
Or are you just pre-avoiding/procrastinating that dreaded mcqueen iso to find the partners?

VOTE: mcqueen

Fuck it lol this vote is cathartic either way

If he’s town, we win easy. If he’s scum…ugh I don’t wanna read it I really don’t

That’s e-1

Notice Kay too scared to join wagon until asked, so obv she’s scum

I wanted your teammates to bus you or scum to crawl out to get a hammer. But that’s because I’m lazy lol this game has been exhausting

Anyone got a reason to wait? I think McQueen has said his piece

I don’t know what I want more, the easy solve if he’s town or the satisfaction of him flipping scum lol

This is the most fun, light-hearted it's been all game so really hoping for red just so I don't have to feel bad.
And because if it doesn't, I better die protecting one of those masons or we're screwed.

VOTE: mcqueen
This is the way.

Hu’s gonna die before she gives me info on kitty damn it lol

This day was a mess. McQueen hurt town so much that rereading this day was extremely frustrating. I think we had a great chance to lim scum if he would’ve just shut up.

Here’s what I noticed:

Gamma took the opportunity to call the wagon bad because they weren’t on it. Gamma also TMI’d me as town probably a pocket attempt. Trace also said I was town. Funny how their own nightkill forced them to 180 on me after both giving confident town reads of me.

Trace saying there’s no way there was a guilty on him after TLM is dead and can’t say otherwise is pointless.

Kitty fully waffling mid day. Doesn’t want to sus a partner but then realizes there’s no other option really without looking terrible the next day.

Trace promised multiple times to review EoDs and give his opinion, did he ever actually do that?

Gamma hammers pushing us to elo, the rest of the wagon was town which is sad but I fully blame McQueen for that.

[Hu Tao]

I've left my reads in Mason chat in the event I die tonight.

[petapan]

Vote Count 4.02

Not Voting (7):

Gamma Emerald, Hu Tao, KayJayQueue, KittyTacky, Skelly, Tangion, Trace0n

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 4 is January 16 at 6:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2025-01-16 18:00:00)

[Trace0n]

Alright sorry I needed some time to process the gamestate and work out the strat, I think I know the best play here

Kay has committed to emulating my slot which is the commitment I needed to know the path forward here, this is big for town so townies please pay attention

the world Im settling on is that hu and tag are and fact masons and skelly is in fact a BG. I think BG is a lot easier to fake claim here than masons but Im not sure scum would commit to fakeclaiming, or atleast not sure scum!skelly would in this gamestate. but ultimately I think if the scum are fakeclaiming we've just been outplayed and a bit caught off guard by a more mountainous setup that skelly had the instinct to take advantage up in the lategame. If HT and tang had this instinct early enough to commit to the all-in strat of softing masons as mates then we got turbo outplayed, is what it is

I think kay also realizes the gamestate generally suggests that these being fakeclaims is unlikely and doesn't think the battle of arguing against them trends pro scum +EV, which I agree with and respect as a strategic decision

given this, I think kay understands that the biggest scum +EV is to push for my flip specifically today. this is because not only will pushing to flip a town PR generally be an uphill battle, but flipping me obviously ends the game before scum are FORCED to start NKing claimed PRs which would inevitably confirm that the "PR claims are true world" is where we are at and thus make the PoE generally overwhelming and town will just win as the PRs will vote together once the realize they are all true claims

so she needs a reason to pivot to push me here and not bus her mates kitty and gamma, even though from her POV elimming any of us would the correct play is she was town. but she's not, and she needs the game to end today. She has already begun casing me to corner this outcome and likely try to bait me into voting her so she can crossvote and get the perfect thunderdome for scum here in this game state

therefore, I will not play into that and force scum!kay to bus by creating a crossvote on one of her mates

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

if I'm scum, from Kay's POV I am bussing and she should be fine with that so town gets more info after the NK and strengthens the POV

I think gamma has objectively done the least to move the ball of all the living players and is the best candidate here to flip. obviously gamma and kitty haven't yet explicitly committed to emulating my slots POV as kay already has, but I think that isn't surprising as kay has been much more dialed in this whole game than either of the two slots. I don't think the scum team have really parsed out the implications of this PoE assuming PR claims are believed because they haven't quite decided as a team whether they want to commit to playing in that world or not. gamma and kitty are very clearly stalling here when if they were town their POVs should be relatively clear. They just don't know what world they want to commit to pushing and are waiting for the town PRs to move and see what can be exploited. I townspewed by committing to this position early and without consideration for the stated preferences of other slots, it is not to my advantage as scum to precommit in the way I did. obviously this is light WIFOM but there was a true cost to my early commitment to this proposed solve if I'm simply emulation a town POV and not actually trying to solve

so I'm hoping this vote will help simplify the game for the other town players and see the PoE more clearly

Also, as a side note for anyone actually paying attention

No one thinks I’m power wolf capable lol including Hu and Tang who have both been scum with me. But it is noteworthy that I’m the only one you tried dismantling in this post. Though points for not trying to push the PRs as possible scum lying because no one is going to buy that. If the PRs are lying, this game makes no sense to me. Therefore, I’m not entertaining that world ever. If it causes us to lose, so be it.

This is obvious scumspew. kay claiming to be powerwolf in capable is a joke, literally just read her body of work in this game. I refuse to believe that a player capable of this level of production has such a lopsided town/scum weight that she is incapable of this play as scum. extremely conspicuous attempt at disarming here. I will readily and willingly admit that my play here is within my scumrange, tho obv yall dont have much meta to go on me here as I mostly play offsite, but kay suggesting that this play is out of her scumrange I think is extremely telling. you do not reach the level of sophistication a player like kay is without being able to atleast play to the level she has here in this game as scum. I will legitimately shocked if someone is able to provide meta info that contradicts this, there is just no way

An entire paragraph on why I’m sus and a throwaway “kitty/gamma coasting”. Boring. Plus I think I’m most upset that you’d put quotes on “lost” when losing that post is what originally killed my wim for this game. It’s back now but I didn’t lie about that and I don’t see any strategical reason why I’d lie about that and continue to complain to myself about doing so. I was literally just upset at the situation because I put hours into that post.

dont take in personally I'm not actually saying you definitively lied about losing a big post. I get it, it has happened to me too and it is extremely demoralizing. I was literally just pointing out the objective truth that is it is a very easy thing for scum to lie about and is an easy way to do some light AtE and feign effort. Maybe you did in fact lose the post, that can obviously happen to any player regardless of alignment, I was just pointing out that it is a convenient scum tactic

But yeah long and the short of it, I think kay is the powerwolf and gamma and kitty are coasting and playing indecisive at a critical juncture of the game. there is no urgency to either of their play. Kay is atleast trying to emulate the town POV holistically which I respect but based on the position's she is taking, neither she nor I should be the play today. We should be elimming a slot that kay and I have consensus on to force scum!me or scum!kay to buss here and force another phase which will give town +EV because we will have a better picture of the PR situation which would lock the PR!true world in which scum do not want to be in at all costs. they know that endgame is a losing proposition, so they have to force my elim here so be wary of a sudden gamma/kitty/kay consensus to go for me. if they were town they should all be equally willing to go for the other 3 non PR claims but because they aren't actually town, they have a built in motive to try to create a schelling point for people to go for my slot

I think this is the best thing I can do to help get the town core to see the solve

HT Tang and Skelly please let me know if you have any questions or need clarifications

Also kay trying to misrepresent T3s takes on me as if he didn't hard townread me before he flipped is crazy scumspew. T3 and I figured out we were TvT and any attempt to characterize that interaction as anything else is grime af. but point remains, forcing scum!kay to buss here because of her current worldview commitments is the best town +EV play here

[Trace0n]

EBWOP: kay claiming to NOT* be powerwolf capable is a joke

[Trace0n]

Trace saying there’s no way there was a guilty on him after TLM is dead and can’t say otherwise is pointless.

This is also scumspew btw, there was absolutely a point to be made and I made it. TLM doesn't have to be around to confirm it when you can literally just read his posts and it is glaringly obvious he was trying to sort my slot, not push me because he had a guilty. If he had a guilty on me and was just trying to emulate a natural push to not give away that he was a PR his discussion of my slot would have look a lot different. he goes back and forth in his consideration on my slot, you can tell there is real hesitation to commit there. and if he had a guilty on me there is zero chance he lets another lim go through that phase without pushing back on it more to go back to me

mcqueen pushing the narrative that he had a guilty on me was actively harmful to town and an objective wrong and poor read on TLMs ISO wrt to my slot it needed to be corrected to prevent scum from playing it up to support my miselim. it was anything but pointless, it was actively informative to the other town slots in the game because TLM's play was illustrative in that way and should be given substantial probative weight upon his flip as a town investigative PR

[Gamma Emerald]

I have my own theory here.