In post 2571, BlueTrin wrote:One thing that threw me off is that T3 didn't coach Turtle on changing his reads: I would have expected T3 to do that more than anyone else, he's into stats and everything, so I thought he would have coached him and fix that D1. As a result I didn't think T3 and Turtle could be associated.
T3 did you do that on purpose?
No haha, I wish
My own reads were very static in this game, but I just made a whole show of re-evaluating my reads every 5 pages
I WAS RIGHT aslkhdaishflkasjDLkfashflkasjflkashfklsfas
I never had a reason to re-evaluate my reads bc my agenda was always the same
Yeah, I'm unsure why I didn't re-evaluate here, I guess I was just too frozen throughout the game & felt too boxed in by my need to be internally consistent to somehow move away from LQ = town & BT = scum.
you don't really particularly need to change your stances as mafia if it's inconvenient to you. unless you know people are specifically going to look to catch you on that, it's often better to not do it. in some sense you were a bit caught out on day 3 but you'd already unaligned yourself with t3 which is a winning position.
It’s a bit meta but I seem to be read as scum in early game. I don’t really get why. Are people expected to form strong opinions already at the first pages?
Mafia starts as a game of imbalanced information. The scum have most of the information and the town has almost none. The way games are won from the perspective of town is to lower than informational imbalance. When we vote people in the early game, we are not expecting those votes to be on scum at a much higher probability than random. The point is to make people react to you, and to make other people take stances. We can then look at those stances later in the game as more information is revealed to us to create a clearer picture of what people's motivations in the game are and have been. Similarly, when we have bandwagons on players early in the game those are also unlikely to be on scum with anything greater than random frequency, but the reason for making them is the same. They force players to react and to take substantive positions. The first wagon leads to information which makes the second wagon better and the second wagon in turn does the same for the third wagon. That is how you play the game as town from a fundamental level. You use your vote and your reads of small stuff to create situations people have to respond to and then you use those responses to inform your reads. It's a feedback loop.
Given this paradigm it makes sense that almost everyone should expect to attract more suspicion in the early game, its the position of the game where people have the least information and are therefore reaching for more things to create that information and those responses and stances I was talking about earlier. Usually early suspicion is based on very little and almost every player is in some games going to find themselves under pressure early. That is to say, being scum read early or pressured early is natural and happens to everyone from time to time, there's nothing abnormal that causes it to happen to you specifically probably. People are just looking for small things to attack to create information and you have happened to do something small that caught their attention when they have the least amount to work with.
That being said there are some ways that people attract suspicion more than others and that usually has to do with simply not feeling natural at the beginning of the game, or looking like they're not really participating in the process I described in the first paragraph of this post. I'm not sure if either of those things are a problem for you in particular but the vast majority of early pressure in a game of mafia is going to come from those two sources.
So I guess to answer your question more directly, no you're not expected to have strong opinions in the first few pages, but it is very useful to play the game in a way such that you treat your small opinions as if they are big, because that's the basis for creating information and reactions from other players.
In post 2524, petapan wrote:
so, uh, a quick word. obviously this game was kind of ruined by the senor pink fiasco. i think any time you get a game were a player deides to turn the game into a toxic shitfest because other players won't listen to his difference check read between two townies, town is going to lose that game.
he indicated repeatedly in the pt that he was distressed and made comments that suggested not playing toward win condition, i pmed him twice asking if he was okay and suggested he could replace out, he insisted each time that he was fine. he asked me if he could say what he needs to say and then troll the rest of the day. i was not really happy toanswer this, but i can't enforce people to play the way i want as the game mod, if someone chooses to play bad that's not really my spot to step in. i told him to not be disruptive or insulting, he decided to be insulting, i removed him from the game.
i feel bad because he pretty clearly ruined the game for most of the players, but generally i take that type of mod intervention as a last resort. i had some amount of pity for him, because it's frustrating to feel ignored in games, but also he was extremely wrong and extremely arrogant about it, so. in general that type of attitude is something that really doesn't have a place in games here anymore. mafia is a hard game, you have to be a little bit humble and recognize that a majority of the time you're going to be wrong. felt like it would have been maybe exercising too much personal judgment in removing him sooner, but maybe that was the wrong call, i dunno.
Anyway, thanks to everyone else for playing.
I have no problem with the way you exercised your judgement this game, it's a tough position to be in for a mod, and I again apologize for venting my frustrations publicly instead of just PMing you directly immediately.
This. I would've actually had an issue with you interfering to remove Pink earlier, because it would have seriously compromised the game and T3/Turtle didn't deserve that.
T3 had me pocketed, I can admit that.
Also, Shea, it was never about scumreading you for me. It was always townreading the rest and being like "Well, guess Shea could be a wolf here."
