Mini 2368 - Haberdashery Hoedown (Endgame)

[Cabd]

Hide protects from every action targeting them. There's no target to role block. You fundamentally are wrong mechanically.

[Gamma Emerald]

i mean, it wasn’t my sole reason. It makes sense and you just chose to call the reason stupid and suddenly switch to scumreading me.

The combination of a) you being the one to bring up the specific wording that b) made you look good didn’t seem promising.

Also then when I found you didn’t even read BB’s flip, how does that not look like a TMI slip? You literally admitted to not reading BB’s flip.

Also, what were you on about near the end of the last day about roleblock not being able to affect hider? That wasn’t true, and was contrary to what you said before, where you said you didn’t know.

I feel like lots of my points on you were valid, but there were probably counterarguments that you could have made to make me see the light, but airing me for 6 days in a row was just always going to doom us.

as I said in dead chat, your mindset felt like you were fostering anti-intellectualism/not reading as a strategy, and I just don't agree with that

[ketchup777]

Hide protects from every action targeting them. There's no target to role block. You fundamentally are wrong mechanically.

that isn’t how the normal hider functions as per the wiki. It just affects kills. Otherwise it’s a commuter. I think?

[Gamma Emerald]

I agree the selective attention span was noteworthy but I think you kinda presumed guilt there *shrug*
I feel like I've had my share of that kind of moment

[ketchup777]

hmm yeah that’s fair

I dont want to promote not reading as a strategy and will do better in future lol, just had to try weigh how likely it was that town!Cabd notices that specific line when they didn’t notice that BB gets shots refunded.

[hasdgfas]

Things I feel were missing in this design space:

-A mechanic to reveal hats as they exit the game would have gone a long way in making the mechanic feel more engaging. With our only sort of information role out of the game, the mechanic was just a giant middle finger to town. It felt terrible, I'm not the only one who decided to ignore it completely.

-Scum getting thrice the info as town just felt bad. A backup hat cop role may have been needed.

-Can you elaborate on point 1? I am unclear on what it is referring to, since hats were revealed when they exited the game.

-point 2 is fair and is something I have plenty of ideas to fix in a future iteration.

Doesn’t it go

A hides (they are protected from night kills)
B blocks A (they are no longer hiding)
B kills A (A dies)

?

This was my understanding and how I read NAR. Because one affects the other, the RB works. It's not a Commute where you're immune to all night actions. You are just immune to kills as Hider. The NAR priority list is for more direct conflicts.

Well played scum, you all did a great job!

The setup needs tweaks but I think it has a lot of potential for future variations of it.

The flavour with the hat facts is my favourite flavour of any game I've been in for a long while! Thanks for modding, hascow and sloth!

Thank you! It was a late addition when I felt the game needed a little more juice.

And if you, or anyone else, feel like there's any more "public" tweaks that can be made to the setup, I would love to hear them.

Did the ruleset make sense? The X-shot stuff was really hard to nail down in a concise way. How did the priority list feel? I understand that this may be tough when the mechanic ended up not getting fully played around with due to the order of deaths, but I wanted something not too fiddly to play or mod.

The more "design" stuff will absolutely be tweaked for a future iteration, just more curious about clarity and fiddliness to make sure it's a fun base mechanic.

[C-Worl]

it is not eminently helpful when I towncase myself and everyone (except cworl, a bit) just ignores the points as if they don’t exist and then vote me because “what is this dreadful reasoning you must be scum” no I just have no idea who scum is and am trying my best

My problem with your reasoning wasn’t that it was stupid. It’s that it was too smart, if that makes sense.

Andante being scum was the simple answer. They voted out town, didn’t vote out scum.

Cabd being scum was the complex answer. They pushed scum the entire games and contributed to both scum eliminations.

I’m not an idiot. Scum can buss. It happens. I understand that. Ive done it. Won because of it. Lost to it.

But Andante being the last scum was the simpler answer. Rather than all the complicated scenarios and hypotheticals you were coming up with to justify your tunnel on Cabd. You overthought this. And when you couldn’t see what I saw, I SR you for it. I just knew that Cabd was town, and I know that you are a brilliant person, so the only way I could justify you SRing Cabd was you were scum.

That’s on me. Maybe if I could have found a way to explain why I TR Cabd better we could have won. But it felt like nothing I said was getting through to you and I was getting frustrated that I couldn’t make you see things from my POV.

[C-Worl]

it is not eminently helpful when I towncase myself and everyone (except cworl, a bit) just ignores the points as if they don’t exist and then vote me because “what is this dreadful reasoning you must be scum” no I just have no idea who scum is and am trying my best

You know how, Cabd bringing up the stuff that made them look good, made them look bad from your POV?

I think that’s how most people react to someone towncasing themselves.

So, when you towncased yourself that was lowkey my reaction.

I think if I went through anyone’s ISO with an assumption of what I think their alignment must be in my mind, then I could probably justify almost any read on any person. The same certainly applies toward isoing yourself or mentions of yourself. If Cabd or Andante had towncased you, I think it would have gone a lot further in persuading people than you doing it.

But I did actually TR you at the end of Day 5 and beginning of Day 6. I was decently confident that it was Andante.

[Enchant]

Cabd being wrong and being so smug about it is hilarious.


I also disagree that scum gaining more information is bad, if anything, information is something you can never be too stingy with for scumteam, because they are informed minority.

[Radical Rat]

Saying scum had thrice the info as Town is a little bit wrong I think.

For one, the rate we gather information is tied to number of scum alive. The more of us you kill, the harder it gets for us. If you'd have killed me first, we'd have been left with basically nothing even.

Plus, there's the matter of us accidentally tipping our hands. I don't think that really happened much here, but honestly it's because we didn't get that much relevant info to work with. We only really found the bad/neutral hats, and the only time the hats played a major role in the day phase was when people took my word as flipped scum at face value. In terms of power and value I'd weight myself as roughly equivalent to a Rolecop. It's faster information gain, but less valuable information than a full role on a fixed slot. And if I had chosen to lie about hats earlier, we'd have been limited in our ability to pick kills, since a hat flipping differently would heavily incriminate me. Which is why I waited to lie until the day I was fated to die anyway.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Things I could have done better:

-Pushed harder for rat. The whole 1-and-1 design space thing was me getting a 100% correct scum ticket and I should have owned it.

-Been more active. The game had players who as town mistook my activity drop-off as scum points. Life made this hard, but near the end part of the drop-off was spoons related not IRL disasters.

Things I feel were missing in this design space:

-A mechanic to reveal hats as they exit the game would have gone a long way in making the mechanic feel more engaging. With our only sort of information role out of the game, the mechanic was just a giant middle finger to town. It felt terrible, I'm not the only one who decided to ignore it completely.

-Scum getting thrice the info as town just felt bad. A backup hat cop role may have been needed.

WTF now it's post game and we talk about it:

-Pooky and Jake both had an absolutely massive back and forth that was actively harming game thread space. If you ever find yourself saying "fuck reads and the game, I want this person gone" it's your civic duty to replace out and hash it outside the game thread post game. I'm disappointed in the both of you.

-"Cabd is scum because he read the flips" is the stupidest shit I have heard in at LEAST the past three years. Justify yourself, ketchup, because that made you 100% scum in my eyes for trying to seriously argue that.

-In general, players should take care not to accuse players of telling lies about their IRL activity level reasons. It's extremely hurtful, and as you saw here, people's IRL lives DO cause activity drops as town.

Props To:

-Andante for getting the hell out of the way and letting endgame play itself.

?

jake was pushing me, i moved on from him after voting him for roughly 1.5h and was actively pushing cakez when i was force replaced.

i only responded to jake in thread when he began to mix in gratuitious insults with his shitpush of me. when someone is shitpushing you and you take the high road and dont respond to them, often people read passivity as scum being accepting of the "truth" of the push.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i voted jake - omgus - got a townie reaction

moved on to voting drive thru -omgus - got a townie reaction

moved on - voted gamma - got a townie reaction -

moved on - voted Cakez - got a wolf reaction and settled on pushing there.

this is just sorting my wagon and playing the game. i did not remain hellbent on wanting jake gone nor did i neglect "reads" i was interacting with players in the game and forming reads and pushing wolf lim.

maybe i should have thicker skin and be able to let things go but pushing back on people who are pushing you is just basic sorting. i dunno if in the future im able to be less toxic when someone is toxic to me. i was planning on replacing out just because it was an intolerable thread state but i dont think its fair to claim that i was in the state of mind of "fuck reads i just want jake gone" when i was actively sorting players, pushing wolf and townread jake.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

congrats on the win andante - wolf with the best vibes awooooooo <3

[humaneatingmonkey]

well-deserved scum win, well-deserved town loss

[Gamma Emerald]

Things I feel were missing in this design space:

-A mechanic to reveal hats as they exit the game would have gone a long way in making the mechanic feel more engaging. With our only sort of information role out of the game, the mechanic was just a giant middle finger to town. It felt terrible, I'm not the only one who decided to ignore it completely.

-Scum getting thrice the info as town just felt bad. A backup hat cop role may have been needed.

-Can you elaborate on point 1? I am unclear on what it is referring to, since hats were revealed when they exited the game.

-point 2 is fair and is something I have plenty of ideas to fix in a future iteration.

Doesn’t it go

A hides (they are protected from night kills)
B blocks A (they are no longer hiding)
B kills A (A dies)

?

This was my understanding and how I read NAR. Because one affects the other, the RB works. It's not a Commute where you're immune to all night actions. You are just immune to kills as Hider. The NAR priority list is for more direct conflicts.

Well played scum, you all did a great job!

The setup needs tweaks but I think it has a lot of potential for future variations of it.

The flavour with the hat facts is my favourite flavour of any game I've been in for a long while! Thanks for modding, hascow and sloth!

Thank you! It was a late addition when I felt the game needed a little more juice.

And if you, or anyone else, feel like there's any more "public" tweaks that can be made to the setup, I would love to hear them.

Did the ruleset make sense? The X-shot stuff was really hard to nail down in a concise way. How did the priority list feel? I understand that this may be tough when the mechanic ended up not getting fully played around with due to the order of deaths, but I wanted something not too fiddly to play or mod.

The more "design" stuff will absolutely be tweaked for a future iteration, just more curious about clarity and fiddliness to make sure it's a fun base mechanic.

I think the x-shot mechanics were solid

[AdumbroDeus]

i mean, it wasn’t my sole reason. It makes sense and you just chose to call the reason stupid and suddenly switch to scumreading me.

The combination of a) you being the one to bring up the specific wording that b) made you look good didn’t seem promising.

Also then when I found you didn’t even read BB’s flip, how does that not look like a TMI slip? You literally admitted to not reading BB’s flip.

Also, what were you on about near the end of the last day about roleblock not being able to affect hider? That wasn’t true, and was contrary to what you said before, where you said you didn’t know.

I feel like lots of my points on you were valid, but there were probably counterarguments that you could have made to make me see the light, but airing me for 6 days in a row was just always going to doom us.

Nah, without specific meta of how you read the game, cabd's scumread on you made perfect sense.

Cabd didn't make a dumbtell, that's all it was, and you looked extremely opportunistic. Plus your emphasis on being an innocent townie in that post was akwardly phrased.

And there's nothing wolfy about pointing out why you think you're mech cleared, townies do it all the time.

That said, Cabd wasn't, if Cabd was mafia trying to pull a failed shot gambit, Cabd would've had info about 4 hats in play this phase which is enough to pull a gambit like that.

[AdumbroDeus]

As far as the Jake vs pooky thing, I'm gonna say that I think it was pretty obvious to me that Jake was trying to set Pooky off.

However I do think Pooky crossed the line and it was understandable to force replace both, but I have no clue why Jake was so intent on setting Pooky off.

[Upwards]

The graphic with the Hats looks pretty neat!

[chibiyali]

VC 1.4

Definitely Real Hat Fact

All chef hats have a tiny rat under them directing the human wearing them.

Current Votes

Drive Thru (3/7)

-> Gamma Emerald (259), Jake From State Farm (343), imaginality (363)

BlueBunnies (3/7)

-> chibiyali (50), Andante (412), Ydrasse (441)

Jake From State Farm (2/7)

-> Radical Rat (68), BlueBunnies (185)

Radical Rat (1/7)

-> C-Worl (114)

SirCakez (1/7)

-> PookyTheMagicalBear (239)

imaginality (1/7)

-> SirCakez (291)

Not Voting (2)

-> Drive Thru, ValiliaRei

Deadline: (expired on 2025-06-01 17:35:00)

Mod Notes:

Day 1 Hat Claims

1. C-Worl - Wearing:
   Hat 13 - Crown
   
   
2. chibiyali - Wearing:
   Hat 12 - Flower Crown
   
   
3. Andante - Wearing:
   Hat 5 - Fox Mask
   
   
4. Drive Thru - Wearing:
   Hat 4 - Top Hat
   
   
5. Gamma Emerald - Wearing:
   Hat 11 - Witch
   
   
6. SirCakez- Wearing:
   Hat 2 - Chef
   
   
7. Jake from State Farm - Wearing:
   Hat 10 - Tinfoil Hat
   
   
8. Blue Bunnies- Wearing:
   Hat 9 - Winter Hat
   
   
9. PookyTheMagicalBear - Wearing:
   Hat 6 - Santa
   
   
10. Radical Rat - Wearing:
    Hat 3 - Detective
    
    
11. Ydrasse- Wearing:
    Hat 8 - Headphones
    
    
12. imaginality- Wearing:
    Hat 1 - Bow
    
    
13. ValiliaRei- Wearing:
    Hat 7 - Gold Top Hat

Hats are locked in for night 1.

Mod admitted RR and Cakez are scumteam together. Let's roll.

VOTE: SirCakez/vote]

I am a genius.

[NicoleAndDime]

Ggwp all

[Cabd]

I and my contemporaries played hider very differently, and always resolved hide actions PRIOR to roleblocks/etc, but clearly the mod's word here is final, so i withdraw my smugness and apologize.

[ketchup777]

it’s ok

[humaneatingmonkey]

release the mafia thread please

[hasdgfas]

Mafia Thread Released

[SirCakez]

boop