Open 960 - Backup Difference (Game Over)

[Tangion]

Tangion's emojis are... more questionable tbh.

[Swirleo]

As I was saying, "questionable" doesn't mean scummy when Tangion would have been softing a town god (which, as I understand it, scum don't want to do), and Finite's callout of it is one of the things that pinged me in the aforementioned ISO. It wouldn't fit a traditional team member to alert other town gods to it though, so I think Finite should be traitor or SK if anything.

More importantly, he's blending in with the noise of the thread, and that's what I thought he was scummy for in Nep 2, sue me for being a hypocrite.

533 in particular moves from just being reactionary to actually shifting the responsibility to take hard stances and start fights, and devalues what's already happened to cause discussion, including his own speculation with Tangion.

-Swirlix

[Tangion]

I didn't think it was too heavy of an ask but I can go find the posts myself if you would prefer not to.

-Swirlix

oh lol he has 150 of them

so anyways, don’t think less posts is what this game needs

imo it is the way that he posts that is the problem, to me it feels either new to site and trying to apply another site style to this site, or scum try harding LAMIST,

but I am reading it there is no actual content to it, he says thing then back tracks thing presents argument then slings sus when no one engages with it, he is all over the place but committing to nothing honestly I don't see why anyone is town reading this unless everyone just assumes they are new to site and giving them a pass.

Why do people keep throwing out cheap townreads?

why do you keep throwing out cheap scum reads?

Tangion I don’t quite remember, where you in the Newbie game that got to 6k posts and 2k of that were from lynnya?

yes that did happen, but still it is hard to town read this guy, at first I thought he was just trolling like Aero in the beginning, but it just feels like, "well if I just post a lot everyone will ignore me and auto TR me, like he hasn't noticed that half the player base has started to just ignore him the other half are just sheeping him, most of the content is coming from him as he complains that no one is doing anything, when his hyperposting is part of why at least I am posting less and probably others as well.

[Finite]

I travel often for work via car so I'm trying to be a responsible person and not text and drive.

William is just throwing stuff out and hoping it sticks. Lol @ my joke being scummy.

Hu claiming vanilla is odd for her - but I can guess I can get on board with it for D1.

I hope you enjoyed my ISO
VOTE: Finite

It was obvious if you read in any detail that William and I were throwing votes based on stupid reasoning to try to get something out of an empty day.

Why did you vote me here? Do you think I'm scummy? Why?

[Swirleo]

I didn't think it was too heavy of an ask but I can go find the posts myself if you would prefer not to.

-Swirlix

oh lol he has 150 of them

so anyways, don’t think less posts is what this game needs

imo it is the way that he posts that is the problem, to me it feels either new to site and trying to apply another site style to this site, or scum try harding LAMIST,

but I am reading it there is no actual content to it, he says thing then back tracks thing presents argument then slings sus when no one engages with it, he is all over the place but committing to nothing honestly I don't see why anyone is town reading this unless everyone just assumes they are new to site and giving them a pass.

Why do people keep throwing out cheap townreads?

why do you keep throwing out cheap scum reads?

Tangion I don’t quite remember, where you in the Newbie game that got to 6k posts and 2k of that were from lynnya?

yes that did happen, but still it is hard to town read this guy, at first I thought he was just trolling like Aero in the beginning, but it just feels like, "well if I just post a lot everyone will ignore me and auto TR me, like he hasn't noticed that half the player base has started to just ignore him the other half are just sheeping him, most of the content is coming from him as he complains that no one is doing anything, when his hyperposting is part of why at least I am posting less and probably others as well.

Thanks!

[Auro]

Scum may have been happy to watch everyone go at each other until all the active posters began to townread each other and block up. :think:

[Tangion]

Tangion:

1. How do you differentiate William's play from a townie who realizes that wagons are a powerful way to draw reactions, and wants to canvas other town into creating pressure through votes?
2. Can you list a an example or stance you think he's non-committal about when he should be?
3. If you had to guess, would you suppose William's playstyle is limbait?

I think you mistake me as someone who reads the wiki and knows these strategies? um
1. idk imo a lot of meaningless wagons does not give much info and just feels like noise to me.
2.well your attempted wagon definitely fits but there was so much back and forth I really don't feel like going back and finding all of them.
3. idk I guess I am so used to trying super hard not to get limed for literally no reason especially d1 but almost constantly this idea of setting yourself up as lim bait seems anti win con across the board.

I hope this answered you somewhat, if not can you rephrase so that I better understand what you are asking for?

The advice I'd give you (admittedly as a much newer player than you are) is to stop trying so hard not to die. When I've seen you actually play and read, you generally do well and are findable. But when you spend lots of time talking about how hard the game is day 1 and you resist going with the flow, you stick out and it starts to bias people against you. It's okay to be wrong, especially on day 1. - Litleo

it is not a matter of being right or wrong, for me without greater in game context I just meta read and vibe read and then when asked to defend my vibe read and I say it is such then I am scum because I don't have enough conviction I guess? idk
I am not good at socializing so I play a social deduction game to get better and it keeps showing me over and over again how bad I am at it yet I keep punishing myself by coming back so...

[Auro]

For what it’s worth, Tangion, I think William is town. Do you have meta on any other players here?

[Finite]

As I was saying, "questionable" doesn't mean scummy when Tangion would have been softing a town god (which, as I understand it, scum don't want to do), and Finite's callout of it is one of the things that pinged me in the aforementioned ISO. It wouldn't fit a traditional team member to alert other town gods to it though, so I think Finite should be traitor or SK if anything.

More importantly, he's blending in with the noise of the thread, and that's what I thought he was scummy for in Nep 2, sue me for being a hypocrite.

533 in particular moves from just being reactionary to actually shifting the responsibility to take hard stances and start fights, and devalues what's already happened to cause discussion, including his own speculation with Tangion.

-Swirlix

Your read is wrong, don't think it's done with any malice but just wrong.

The Tangion emoji thing I wasn't being serious, maybe I hoped there's a 10% chance he actually crumbed scum and it would be funny to actually catch him but there wasn't anything beyond that. You're reading into nothing if you're looking into my speculation on Tangion.

I was mostly having fun so far and was lost because it was nearly a complete null read on the slots. The Auro/Upwards, Auro/You, William/Hu there was nothing that really pinged me. I shifted the responsibility to you because I thought (Villainous) in particular would be the one most likely to make an actual case like the one you're making on me right now to start something more serious in D1, if it wasn't obvious when William were talking about Power Tools and me about emojis.

[Swirleo]

I thought Power Tools referred to the powers we have in the game. Mb maybe I should read everything before I start saying stuff.

[Swirleo]

Maren and Villainous: can you summarize the conversations you’ve had so far, as much as you’re fine sharing?

He told me we got our role PM and the game started. We didn't talk again until I started posting just now. I asked him if he still thought you were scum, we talked a bit about how we usually play, I said I have conflicting feelings on meta and then I asked him to explain 576 to me and he said he already did. I did a double take at that because I fail to see how 494 in particular evokes floatiness. -Swirlix

[Swirleo]

I gtg for now, remind me to talk to and about Finite when I come back.

-Swirlix

[Finite]

Maren and Villainous: can you summarize the conversations you’ve had so far, as much as you’re fine sharing?

He told me we got our role PM and the game started. We didn't talk again until I started posting just now. I asked him if he still thought you were scum, we talked a bit about how we usually play, I said I have conflicting feelings on meta and then I asked him to explain 576 to me and he said he already did. I did a double take at that because I fail to see how 494 in particular evokes floatiness. -Swirlix

I feel like this internal conversation is not very easy to fake and is more towny since it seems they're genuinely analyzing Auro/me but I don't have much experience with hydras

[Swirleo]

Ok @Swirleo can you make an actual scum case again, even if its on me since you said I feel more like scum Finite. We do need an actual serious train to get interactions and it can't be William on his stupid power tool or me with the Tangion emojis.

For you it's the lower post count and hard time making reads. In our first game together you were incredibly perceptive and analytical, and then in the second game where you were scum you were much more floaty and had a harder time taking stances. In the scum PT you were panicking the whole time and indicated discomfort playing scum.
-Litleo

I do get stressed out playing scum. Most of what you said is straight up untrue though, I'm pretty sure I've posted much more this game than in previous ones and I've been more relaxed as I feel in a multiball setup you're less in control of the outcome. Also was I really floaty in the NEP game? I feel like I took a strong stance against Mqnic and just bussed Drapion from the start.

But most of my posts have been zero content, as currently outside of William even the more active slots (Auro, you) are closer to null than town lean. Many Auro just from gut.

I'm trying to put words to what I'm feeling. In that first game when I was scum, you were kinda scary. When I was town and you were scum, you weren't. This game, you're not again. But maybe you're scary when I'm scum and not scary when I'm town. All I know is that you feel the way you did last game, and not the way you did when I was scum. - Litleo.

[Swirleo]

All the crumb reading is, not

meaningless

to me but it doesn't matter to me as much as what can't be reduced to WIFOM.

Auro was the towniest person in my read yesterday and he continues to be.

I buy Finite's defense against the meta argument- I also don't love relying on meta in a text based game, but I looked at his ISO myself and it's still not good.

Tangion's emojis are... more questionable tbh.

-Swirlix

Did you anticipate my defense against meta before I made it?

I wasn't in that game, so I don't see how I could have. Why do you ask? -Swirlix

"I buy Finite's defense against the meta argument- I also don't love relying on meta in a text based game, but I looked at his ISO myself and it's still not good."

What are you referring to here?

The way I read this was that Swirlix was talking about your meta read of William, not your meta defense of yourself. I (Litleo) am the one scum reading you. -Litleo.

[Finite]

@Tangion with regards to William, me/Swirleo seem to be reasonably confident that William is town based on meta (we've played a couple of recent games) and Auro I'm not sure but probably similar reasoning.

For me William doesn't bother me and I think he's funny. But it's quite difficult to read people already when for example Hu and Not Mafia are just complaning about William posting too much, frankly it makes the game not very exciting as well. So I'm telling you this clearly so you don't get stuck on William (obviously we can still be wrong on his alignment).

[Swirleo]

Ok @Swirleo can you make an actual scum case again, even if its on me since you said I feel more like scum Finite. We do need an actual serious train to get interactions and it can't be William on his stupid power tool or me with the Tangion emojis.

For you it's the lower post count and hard time making reads. In our first game together you were incredibly perceptive and analytical, and then in the second game where you were scum you were much more floaty and had a harder time taking stances. In the scum PT you were panicking the whole time and indicated discomfort playing scum.
-Litleo

I do get stressed out playing scum. Most of what you said is straight up untrue though, I'm pretty sure I've posted much more this game than in previous ones and I've been more relaxed as I feel in a multiball setup you're less in control of the outcome. Also was I really floaty in the NEP game? I feel like I took a strong stance against Mqnic and just bussed Drapion from the start.

But most of my posts have been zero content, as currently outside of William even the more active slots (Auro, you) are closer to null than town lean. Many Auro just from gut.

Ok before I leave I heavily concur with you feeling similar to NEP and that you were floaty in that game.


I read backwards so I thought 494 was a defense to 576 and 494 is pretty solid to me.


Disregard 614 lol, lovingly.

-Swirlix

[Finite]

Ok @Swirleo can you make an actual scum case again, even if its on me since you said I feel more like scum Finite. We do need an actual serious train to get interactions and it can't be William on his stupid power tool or me with the Tangion emojis.

For you it's the lower post count and hard time making reads. In our first game together you were incredibly perceptive and analytical, and then in the second game where you were scum you were much more floaty and had a harder time taking stances. In the scum PT you were panicking the whole time and indicated discomfort playing scum.
-Litleo

I do get stressed out playing scum. Most of what you said is straight up untrue though, I'm pretty sure I've posted much more this game than in previous ones and I've been more relaxed as I feel in a multiball setup you're less in control of the outcome. Also was I really floaty in the NEP game? I feel like I took a strong stance against Mqnic and just bussed Drapion from the start.

But most of my posts have been zero content, as currently outside of William even the more active slots (Auro, you) are closer to null than town lean. Many Auro just from gut.

Ok before I leave I heavily concur with you feeling similar to NEP and that you were floaty in that game.

I read backwards so I thought 494 was a defense to 576 and 494 is pretty solid to me.

Disregard 614 lol, lovingly.

-Swirlix

I'm not sure if you're talking to me or Villainous but anyway I don't think your suspicion on me comes from a scum motive, and I town lean you right now so I don't see a reason for pressuring in retaliation. Was hoping for more people to chime in and draw some interactions actually but seems I'm still left with Resetti.

I read your scum PT that game, Helz was talking too highly of me smh now after that game I always feel pressured to perform.

[mqnic]

Ok @Swirleo can you make an actual scum case again, even if its on me since you said I feel more like scum Finite. We do need an actual serious train to get interactions and it can't be William on his stupid power tool or me with the Tangion emojis.

For you it's the lower post count and hard time making reads. In our first game together you were incredibly perceptive and analytical, and then in the second game where you were scum you were much more floaty and had a harder time taking stances. In the scum PT you were panicking the whole time and indicated discomfort playing scum.
-Litleo

Also was I really floaty in the NEP game? I feel like I took a strong stance against Mqnic and just bussed Drapion from the start.

I don’t think you were that floaty

[Swirleo]

I'm cracking up at how differently Swirlix and I see the game. I hope it winds up being productive because we can bounce ideas off each other and come to consensi greater than what we could individually come up with.

I also want to state for the record that I find William's style to be amusing, but I do think it can be counterproductive as well - changing reads every 15 minutes means you're gonna be wrong at least half the time and scum will always have a wrong read to latch onto and encourage. William has significantly toned down the volume since that first game, which is also appreciated. I think Hu and William really butted heads in that game though, and some of that probably still lingers. - Litleo

[Swirleo]

Ok @Swirleo can you make an actual scum case again, even if its on me since you said I feel more like scum Finite. We do need an actual serious train to get interactions and it can't be William on his stupid power tool or me with the Tangion emojis.

For you it's the lower post count and hard time making reads. In our first game together you were incredibly perceptive and analytical, and then in the second game where you were scum you were much more floaty and had a harder time taking stances. In the scum PT you were panicking the whole time and indicated discomfort playing scum.
-Litleo

I do get stressed out playing scum. Most of what you said is straight up untrue though, I'm pretty sure I've posted much more this game than in previous ones and I've been more relaxed as I feel in a multiball setup you're less in control of the outcome. Also was I really floaty in the NEP game? I feel like I took a strong stance against Mqnic and just bussed Drapion from the start.

But most of my posts have been zero content, as currently outside of William even the more active slots (Auro, you) are closer to null than town lean. Many Auro just from gut.

Ok before I leave I heavily concur with you feeling similar to NEP and that you were floaty in that game.

I read backwards so I thought 494 was a defense to 576 and 494 is pretty solid to me.

Disregard 614 lol, lovingly.

-Swirlix

I'm not sure if you're talking to me or Villainous but anyway I don't think your suspicion on me comes from a scum motive, and I town lean you right now so I don't see a reason for pressuring in retaliation. Was hoping for more people to chime in and draw some interactions actually but seems I'm still left with Resetti.

I read your scum PT that game, Helz was talking too highly of me smh now after that game I always feel pressured to perform.

I was genuinely scared of you that game. You saw right through me at every turn. But again, maybe I'm not scared now because I'm not scum, and so you seeing through me just isn't a threat. I will withhold judgement for now, partly because while you're clearly engaging with me in good faith, and usually I like to read people based on their interactions with me, I think in this case I need to give you space to reveal yourself, since forcing you to be active through lots of interaction will not reveal how floaty you are. - Litleo

[Swirleo]

Auro, in further response to your post, we did chat a bit this evening, but haven't really dived too deep yet since Maren is still catching up and wasn't around initially. We also talked a bit about my Finite read and where it comes from, which I think helped Maren to see my perspective. Maren wasn't in the first game to be terrified though. - Litleo

[WilliamDeVere]

A CASE FOR ENCHANT = MAFIA

My first game on this site, I was Serial Killer. I literally slipped up and asked if it was possible there were only neutrals and no Mafia - and then OMGUSSED hard on someone who asked "are you asking if there's a Mafia in a Mafia game?" - later I actually realised in hindsight that I was caught scum and annoyed at the question because.. you know, it caught me. I laid off the pressure on the person who asked (I believe it was Black, now that I think about it although I may be wrong).

This game, I suggested Enchant was scum wanting Mafia to keep the SK alive because they didn't have a nightkill as Mafia. He OMGUSSED me hard and voted me as well for that - possibly for the same reason as I did - he is Mafia, wasn't actually told if Mafia has a nightkill or not, and then was like "fuck..." - he didn't follow up on the read or try to push me over it, just expressed an overconfident intent to vote out.

Okay, all good here. But what does Enchant do afterwards?
He makes a random meme out of the blue that talks about people crumbing Traitor - and at the very bottom there's a window that says "CRUMBING TRAITOR AS MAFIA". This to me looks like a signal to the Traitor that they're Mafia. It went unnoticed, unlike Auro's shitpost.

VOTE: Enchant
Vote this.

Other stuff:

Reason thread apathy is so high is that there's 5 scum. I think in a game with 5 scum they have undue influence, and there really isn't much reason for them to be super afraid, they can mostly coast by and make it to the EoD; that being said, I do believe the Serial Killer(s) would have a reason to kill Mafia ASAP - in the long run with no Mafia dead they lose. Mafia can counter the Serial Killer but the Serial Killer can't counter the Mafia.

If anyone is curious - this was one of my scum games:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthre ... ish-to-die

I was S-FM Bungalow.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthre ... ghtless-ll - another of my scum games (my first scum game and my second game overall). I was Magoroth/Ganelon.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthre ... FM-Chicago - Another of my scum games (one of my worst ones tbh). I was some weird Neutral Evil role.

[Immortal Technique]

1.Tangion - needs more data
2.MrResetti - needs more data
3.ForeverBuckAndMe - needs more data
4.Enchant - acting scummy
5.Auro - probably town, could be SK, unlikely mafia
6.Swirleo - town, duh
7.William - town, duh
8.Mqnic - hmmm, town?
9.Finite - feels like scum!Finite more than town!Finite
10.Hu Tau - lightest of town leans
11.Upwards - slight scum lean
12.Not_Mafia - how does one read Not_Mafia?
13.Immortal Technique - likely SK

Is Villain a part of this hydra?

[Immortal Technique]

I do have a gut town read of Auro, and am pinged in the gut about Tang being scum here