camn wrote:I remember Cam Neely!
Just from the name, though... I never was into him... He was on some EASTERN conference team, wasn't he?
I live out west.
But I remember the name.
Yeah. Bruins.
TSQ, how do you have a serious vote on Farside already?
How do you find it so hard to believe that a serious vote is out already?
Because he didn't give a reason for it.
And that makes it unserious? Despite that fact TSQ said it was serious...
No. It means I'm wondering why he's voting Farside.
zwetschenwasser wrote:I'm claiming now, so you don't waste an investigation on me. I'm Sir Gawaine's son, a miller one shot day vig.
If you are a miller, this is the right move. Not sure I would have included the vig part though.
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
There seems to me to be a huge difference between wondering what it's for, and saying "I don't know how TSQ has a non random vote out already" Perhaps you could try to rectify those two statements, because they're not the same.
And also, well, this is really simple.
We have the claimed miller day vig our chosen lynch target, then we lynch him instead. I am a huge proponent of "lynch all millers," and this one comes without a net loss in lynches also.
Thestatusquo wrote:There seems to me to be a huge difference between wondering what it's for, and saying "I don't know how TSQ has a non random vote out already" Perhaps you could try to rectify those two statements, because they're not the same.
The second one you list is what I said first. I don't know how you have a serious vote out BECAUSE I don't know what it's for, which is the first you listed.
TSQ wrote:I am a huge proponent of "lynch all millers,"
Why?
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
Excuse me, I meant to say "lynch all claimed millers." The main reason for this is because if we do not lynch miller as soon as they claim, then it becomes way too good a claim for scum. I am not willing to let the meta shape in such a way where scum can claim being miller d1 and not be lynched for it, and essentially make themselves cop immune for absolutely no reason.
Also, the last 3 times I've seen someone claim miller with no provocation d1 they have been scum, but that's just personal experience.
Here's the plan. We vote until we reach ~2 from lynch. Then when 2 other people have also expressed willingness to vote that person, we all switch to force the claimed miller vig to use his power on the player we suggested. Then we lynch him. Additionally, we could also force him to use his power on himself.
What is the correct play for a miller then? And whenever I've seen an unprovoked miller claim, it's always been a real miller. That's all been offsite though, so I guess your PoV has more merit here.
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
I've seen both real pro-town millers and scum claim like this. I'm not quite in the "lynch all millers" camp anymore, but normally a miller is still at least a pretty good lynch.
I'm a little unsure in this case, though; if a scum has a one-shot daykill, why would he claim it so early, instead of just sitting back quietly and waiting, and using it for a surprise endgame win, or to pick off a cop the moment he claims, or something? While I don't trust a "miller-vig" claim, obv, I'm not sure I see the logic for a scum with a one shot day kill to claim "miller-day-vig" on day 1; nor do I see the logic of, say, a day-SK to claim that, or any other plausable scum with a daykill that I can think of. That being said, if there's even a small risk of him being scum, TSQ's plan to make him use his kill right now might be for the best.
Zwet, does your role have any other details or flavor?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
Yos, you know as well as I do that the logic for the meta policy is not because he's sure to be scum, but rather that we have to make the meta for miller claims unacceptable for scum.
Hi everyone! I apologize for the delay in me posting.
Thestatusquo wrote:Here's the plan. We vote until we reach ~2 from lynch. Then when 2 other people have also expressed willingness to vote that person, we all switch to force the claimed miller vig to use his power on the player we suggested. Then we lynch him. Additionally, we could also force him to use his power on himself.
I support this plan.
Yosarian2 wrote:I'm a little unsure in this case, though; if a scum has a one-shot daykill, why would he claim it so early, instead of just sitting back quietly and waiting, and using it for a surprise endgame win, or to pick off a cop the moment he claims, or something? While I don't trust a "miller-vig" claim, obv, I'm not sure I see the logic for a scum with a one shot day kill to claim "miller-day-vig" on day 1; nor do I see the logic of, say, a day-SK to claim that, or any other plausable scum with a daykill that I can think of. That being said, if there's even a small risk of him being scum, TSQ's plan to make him use his kill right now might be for the best.
I'd go so far as to say that a "miller vig" claim is so ridiculously scummy we would laugh it off as being plausible and an actual role. That's not to say it's a smart move or anything, but it's still a strategy.
"I have chronic depression and a learning disability" - Xylthilxm
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
Thestatusquo wrote:Yos, you know as well as I do that the logic for the meta policy is not because he's sure to be scum, but rather that we have to make the meta for miller claims unacceptable for scum.
(shrug) Well, I suppose, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the town's chances this game in order to advance some meta; I don't really think that's either a good idea or an effective one.
In any case, I'd be more inclined to have a balance; something like "lynch a claimed miller 25% more often then you would lynch a claimed vanillia in the same situation"; that's probably enough to discourage scum from claiming miller that often (especally considering how often you should lynch a claimed vanillia anyway).
Of course, in this unusual case, he's not a claimed vanillia, so it'd more like "25% more often then you'd lynch a claimed one shot dayvig in the same situation". Which is probably still not that high.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
I tend to agree with DGB, that dayvig scum seems unlikely.. .
Plus, if he actually lets us direct his kill. . it makes me like him.
Setting up his lynch in advance only guarantees at least one dead townie.
If he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone and then we kill him, obviously he will only kill a townie.
If he is town and we do the same, then he dies as town.
Thus... I would be against a lynch on principle only.
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
camn wrote:I tend to agree with DGB, that dayvig scum seems unlikely.. .
Plus, if he actually lets us direct his kill. . it makes me like him.
Setting up his lynch in advance only guarantees at least one dead townie.
If he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone and then we kill him, obviously he will only kill a townie.
If he is town and we do the same, then he dies as town.
Thus... I would be against a lynch on principle only.
For some reason, you believe there is no way, if he was scum, that he would kill a fellow scum if we told him to do so. Why is that?
stark wrote:Do we have any ideas of a prospective candidate (aside from himself) for dayvig?
The day has just started. I suggest that we let the day run its course and that we use the mechanism I outlined, which is essentially a normal day but doesn't give a scum player the opportunity to hammer and deprive us of my cunning plan (tm)
Currently most likely to be scum in my eyes is farside, but that could easily change. Like I said, the day just started.
Camn, you believe the point of the d1 lynch is to kill scum? Hee Hee. So young and naive. The d1 lynch is very very very rarely useful in that it catches scum, and is far more important as a mode of gaining information.
Also, are we all trying to outguess the mod? DGB camn, you guys should know better. At least, DGB definitely should. You know damn well OGML is a very experienced mod who knows not to fall into standard meta pitfalls.
I am more than willing to allow the town to direct my kill, but I don't think tsq is right. I'm useful to you, and you're trying to lynch me according to principle. I don't like sam's theory at all. He seems to be trying to set me up. And farsidescum looks dodgily amusing.
UW Huskies Class of 2014!
Spontaneous Bastard Mafia II is accepting replacements.
Thestatusquo wrote:Also, are we all trying to outguess the mod? DGB camn, you guys should know better. At least, DGB definitely should. You know damn well OGML is a very experienced mod who knows not to fall into standard meta pitfalls.
Nah. Still. Not buying the dayvig-scum.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
I dont policy lynch millers. I lynch based on behaviour. If you are scummy you die. This isnt about general meta. This is about this game.
Your kill should definitely be used today and in the second suspect of the day.
With that said I disagree with TSQ plan.
zwetschenwasser wrote:TSQ seems to be trying abnormally hard to lynch me on any grounds.
I noticed.
I am a huge proponent of lynching millers. But as I said, I'm not buying the miller DAYVIG as scum.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
camn wrote:I tend to agree with DGB, that dayvig scum seems unlikely.. .
Plus, if he actually lets us direct his kill. . it makes me like him.
Setting up his lynch in advance only guarantees at least one dead townie.
If he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone and then we kill him, obviously he will only kill a townie.
If he is town and we do the same, then he dies as town.
Thus... I would be against a lynch on principle only.
For some reason, you believe there is no way, if he was scum, that he would kill a fellow scum if we told him to do so. Why is that?
Not he knew we were simply going to policy-lynch him directly thereafter. Where would the percentage be?
And no, I don't think D1 is for lynching scum.
As far as I can tell, it is for lynching the most annoying player, regardless of alignment...
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
populartajo wrote:I dont policy lynch millers. I lynch based on behaviour. If you are scummy you die. This isnt about general meta. This is about this game.
This. Exactly this.
DGB, why don't you think a dayvig scum is plausible? Ask Farside if it's plausible. It was MY ROLE in her futurama game.
Also, is there a case on Farside? I know that at least TSQ has said she is his number one suspect and now Zwet just threw her name out as scum. Is there a reason for this?
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
