Mini 751: Suzumiya Haruhi Mafia (OVER)

[Trumpet of Doom]

FoS'es to lynch? Okay then...

FoS: DGB

One of the few names I recognize, and the only one I've played with.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Well, since we're no longer random voting,

UnFoS: DGB.

I refuse to commit to a D1 lynch this early, so I won't

vote

FoS Seraphim just yet, but I agree that if we don't have anyone better by the end of the day, we should lynch Seraphim. Still, if you people want him lynched now, then vote him now.

Alternative suspects? Malthusis is looking worst to me right now because of his eagerness to hammer, but I'm not really seeing anything else on anyone yet.

[Trumpet of Doom]

This sounds basically like a quote of Percy with different words :S...not sure what to make of this.

...well, yeah, it pretty much was... in retrospect, perhaps I should have just said "QFT" and been done with it, but I felt like I needed to make some sort of effort to contribute.

And now there's not much for me to talk about. Great. I guess we just wait till twilight ends?

[Trumpet of Doom]

Okay, on a cursory reread, about the only thing I'm really getting caught on is this (post 54):

I felt it may actually be better if we just went ahead and lynched him and pretending it was more like a night start,

then

to talk about the possibility of a vig kill and stuff like that, possibly outing Power roles.

Emphasis mine. If that's not a typo, it's an incredibly bad slip (if afatchic is scum).

[Trumpet of Doom]

Okay, on a cursory reread, about the only thing I'm really getting caught on is this (post 54):

I felt it may actually be better if we just went ahead and lynched him and pretending it was more like a night start,

then

to talk about the possibility of a vig kill and stuff like that, possibly outing Power roles.

Emphasis mine. If that's not a typo, it's an incredibly bad slip (if afatchic is scum).

Whats bad about that? i was saying i thought it would be better if we went ahead and lynched with little discussion, so the scum don't have Power role reads on anyone, rather then delaying it and talking about a possible vig killing him and things like that.

What was bad about it, for those that didn't see it, was that the way it was written (i.e. with the typo/slip/whatever), the post implied that we should discuss vig kills anyway, possibly outing power roles. While probably virtually everyone has a power role, there are obviously some roles that are more helpful than others - for example, cops are generally more useful than hiders. Vigs generally fall into the category of useful town PRs, so it sounded like afatchic was rolefishing.

Zwet: Welcome to the game!

[Trumpet of Doom]

Yeah, I'm thinking about the only thing I've really got to go on at this point is your predecessor's (poor) play. I'll

Vote: zwetschenwasser

, if for no other reason than that that's the biggest thing I see off the top of my head to jump on at the moment and that I'm trying to not be prodded.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Mod: shouldn't that be 8 players not FoS'ing?

Moving on, that's... odd. It looks like we need to build up a majority on someone in a week, or the votecount'll be reset at the next deadline review.

Let me try this again.

Vote: zwetschenwasser.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Yes. I'm not immediately seeing anyone who really rises to

vote

FoS level, though, and you're my biggest suspect (for your predecessor's actions), so I figured a

n FoS

vote on you was in order. (Perhaps a reread as well...)

[Trumpet of Doom]

It's one thing if they gradually shift. It's another if they do a total 180. And in the post he switched views, he also tried to lead the vig into killing Seraphim.

I just said in another game we're both in that I don't really like going after replacements based on what their predecessor did, but again, you replaced into a horrible position, and I just can't let it go until you really say who you think is scum and why (or do something else to get you town cred, fast).

FoS: zwetschenwasser.

[Trumpet of Doom]

The Tenth Vote Count (aka the "Something Is Amiss..." Vote Count)

Something is amiss, huh? Besides the minor details that:
1) I'm apparently voting myself and not zwetschenwasser?

Unvote

in case that's actually supposed to be there.
2) afatchic's name hasn't been changed to zwetschenwasser in the vote section, but has in the FoS section?
3) zwetschenwasser is apparently FoS'ing himself, even though none of his posts have him doing so?
4) My FoS on zwetschenwasser isn't counted? Let's try this again:

FoS: zwetschenwasser.

Never underestimate my ability to screw up vote counts. Fixed. - Tar

The reread didn't really change my opinions.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Well, clearly you don't mind being lynched, or else you would have done something about the FoS you apparently have on yourself. (hint hint)

Oh, so *that's* how I screwed that last vote count up - I counted your FoS but mistakenly attributed it to zwetschenwasser himself. Fixed again. - Tar

[Trumpet of Doom]

Percy's case is that I'm

in too many games

not contributing

and that afatchic was a freak.

Fixed for you. If you want me to look elsewhere, point me to a specific post from someone that you think is scummy and show me why you think it's scummy. (Essentially, what Budja said.)

Yes, you're an easy target. Yes, part of why I'm FoSing you is afatchic's poor play - if players change their minds about something, I like to hear reasons. No, I don't like voting a player mostly on what their predecessor did. But you're not making yourself look less scummy, so until I see solid,

analyzed

evidence that someone else is scummier or that you're town, my vote's staying. (Come on, somebody else, give me something I can go after...)

[Trumpet of Doom]

It wasn't a misinterpretation. I think it was a calculated scum move.

I'm trying to figure out which of the possible ways to read this post is the correct one, and neither of them look good. If you think my re-FoSing you was calculated, how was I supposed to know Tar would count my FoS as yours? If you're referring to your misrepresentation as a "calculated scum move" (which is what I thought at first)... well... let's not go into that.

On an unrelated note,

Mod: I will be V/LA through Saturday.

...and

Unvote

again, since I seem unable to unvote and have it show up on vote counts...

[Trumpet of Doom]

Uh, guys, I just went for a restroom break. Why does everybody look like they've seen a ghost? And where did Ortolan, Budja, and Panzerjager go, anyways?

Nice of y'all to remove the reason for my removal - I'm guessing Panzer was responsible for my temporary removal from the game, and I see Seraphim's come to the same conclusion.

Let me see if I have this straight: Budja was a mafia cop who claimed to have a guilty on Percy. Percy replied that Budja had actually targeted veerus, that he was able to get an investigation on Budja, and that he found Budja guilty, and specifically "alpha mafia." Panzer promptly claimed bulletproof JoAT who'd tried to vig Percy and failed. Percy suggested that perhaps Budja and Panzer were a scumteam. Budja was lynched and turned out to be a mafia cop. In his first post D4, Panzer claimed scum with Budja and declared veerus to be confirmed town; the only way I can see this as true is if Budja told him in their QT/PMs that when he investigated veerus, he came up town. Panzer suggested that beta mafia is probably Percy and malthusis; Seraphim claimed; Panzer was lynched, bringing me back into the game. Seraphim said that multiple dead players have told him Percy's beta mafia, and malt claimed an untargetable role with a power that he doesn't know the result of.

So if Seraphim is to be believed, Percy is scum, probably with veerus, but potentially with me or Malt. If Panzer is to be believed, veerus is confirmed town, Seraphim is almost certainly town and Percy is scum (either with me or Malt) - but I haven't seen anyone else say veerus is town, and Panzer didn't say anything to back it up.

Potential scum teams and their endorsers, then:
Percy+malthusis (Ser, Panzer)
Percy+ToD (Ser, Panzer)
Percy+veerus (Ser)
veerus+ToD (DGB)
veerus+malthusis (DGB)
ToD+malthusis (DGB)

Of note: veerus and I are the only players who have yet to claim. I'll claim if people want me to (DGB, am I sensing a request?), and I want to hear veerus claim (not that that's likely to happen, seeing as he'll be V/LA for a while). I'd kinda like to know who malthusis has targeted so far, too, but it's not a big deal.

[Trumpet of Doom]

We don't know why you brought back DGB, rather than another player.

Actually, thinking about it, it makes perfect sense. After all, ortolan, Budja and Panzer have already lost, so they have no incentive to contribute, to scumhunt, or to do anything to advance a particular faction's chances of winning.

The only dead townies are DGB, zwet and roffman. forbiddanlight seems to still be participating. I wouldn't bring zwet back if I were in Seraphim's shoes, and I don't know anything about how good of a player roffman is or isn't. (Does anyone else have experience with him?) So given a choice between roffman and DGB, I'd pick DGB as the one to bring back.

Speaking of DGB, since I haven't outright responded to these posts yet: (Double post merged into one, here.)

I read the scum's posts.

I'd say the living scum is between veerus and Trumpet of Doom, with a smaller probability for malthusis.

It's quite clear that the scum made a pact of never mentioning each other.

Trumpet of Doom never mentioned the other two scumbags.

malthusis and veerus mentioned the scumbags liberally.

I say the scum is ToD, how 'bout that?

First off, did you miss the part where the mod said that Budja's/Panzer's scumteam is no more, and that there are two remaining mafiosi? So if I'm scum, I'm with one of the other four players, not the two dead mafia.

Second, where do you get the "scum made a pact of never mentioning each other" bit? Budja and Panzer definitely broke that D3, if not earlier, and it doesn't hold up if I'm scum with Budja, either (which I'm already confirmed not to be - see above). If I didn't know you were (a) confirmed town and (b) already dead, I'd be voting you now.

Final comment to DGB, since apparently I'm very good at hiding content in the middle of paragraphs where people aren't likely to see it:

DGB, am I sensing a request [for me to claim]?

Also, upon rereading:

If Panzer is to be believed, veerus is confirmed town, Seraphim is almost certainly town and Percy is scum (either with me or Malt) -

but I haven't seen anyone else say veerus is town

, and Panzer didn't say anything to back it up.

Oops, my bad. (I know I'm nearsighted, I didn't know I'm blind. ) But I don't like the way Percy phrased that part of his post - "I'm happy to accept" could be (mis?)interpreted as "if people want to think my scumpartner's confirmed town, fine by me, since it means he won't be lynched."

Also, reading back, I noticed veerus's hammer D2 - I'd think it takes more of a case to hammer than merely to vote, and certainly to hammer without a claim. veerus failed to provide an especially compelling case for why zwet was scummy enough to need to be hammered sans claim.

[Trumpet of Doom]

All right. Since someone's outright asked for it:

Claim:

I am Kyon, Presumably Vanilla Townie. As far as I know, I don't do anything (yet. I'd guess that if malthusis isn't lying, he should target me and see what happens.), and I haven't tried to use any ability I might have on anyone.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Check this out:

The Nineteenth Vote Count (aka the "

Which of These Gods Is the Same as the Other

" Vote Count)

*snip*

9) Percy

(1)

- veerus, malthusis

Looks like the mafiosi can't vote for each other (or Tar screwed up the vote count yet again). If they can't, then Seraphim and I both need to be voting Percy for him to be lynched; if it's just another VC error, I'd be happy to hammer. I'm only waiting so that I know which it is I'd be doing: L-1 or the hammer.

When in doubt, assume it's a vote count error. - Tar

[Trumpet of Doom]

Well, of course I'll trust the guy who said (paraphrased) "I'm sure Percy is scum, but let's not quicklynch." Seraphim, you're willing to lynch me over the guy you have (had) as confirmed scum? WTF? Who are the sources you're now doubting? If Budja was one of them, he's probably no less trustworthy than anyone else. If anything, he's probably even more so.

On another topic: None of you have read my scum games, have you? When I'm scum, I have wagons I want to push, and I'm trying to push them right out of the gate.

A couple other points I want to address:

If you voted me, either I'd be dead or you'd know for sure that either veerus or malthusis is scum.

I know I'm town, I

think

Seraphim's town, so from my POV, two of Percy, veerus and malthusis pretty much have to be scum anyway.

Why the hell haven't you voted, then?

As you wish.

Vote: Percy.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Any ideas on what's happenned to the mafia kills guys?

One of the first things I thought of was, "Well, if veerus is the other beta mafia, maybe he just didn't send in a kill," and then I realized that Percy could have made the decision on whom to kill. So that idea's out the window.

That said, I might have some wild speculation to offer if people want it. It's probably nothing, but.... (Note: The preceding sentence guarantees that whatever my absurd theory is, it will end up being correct.)

However, to check and see if my theory makes sense, I need additional information. Malthusis, I need to know whom you targeted and when you targeted them. (You can skip D3, since that seems to have been the day of the global roleblock.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

To update mine, last night I tried to target forbiddanlight on the off chance that it might help.

(There is also a massive post coming, but I won't finish it tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to post it before I head out with one of my bands tomorrow.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Actually, not so huge after all.

N1: Roffman
N2: DGB
N3: Panzer
N4: Seraphim (Side note: somehow got a 'phase counter', any comments on this Seraphim?)
N5:ToD

(Note about choices: I tried to check every possible thing my power could do, vig,resurrect, bring back people, etc. I'd be convinced by now that this does nothing, but I'm wondering what that phase counter does).

...okay, my theory's wrong. The basic idea was based on the first part of veerus's post 311:

Based on role information I have, every player has 2 "states" and people in opposite states have full protection from the other's abilities.

I got a phase counter last night, so my theory was that the phase counters had to do with this "states" idea. From there I wanted to see what living players other than myself had been targeted, since I guessed malt's ability gives out these phase counters. Ah well, I guess I'll just have to ask veerus what he meant when he gets back.

@Seraphim: The PM I got just says that I got a phase counter, that I don't know what it does, and that it might do nothing. I'd expect malt's says the same.

[Trumpet of Doom]

@ToD: What you said at least clears up what happened to the mafia kills.

Not really. Or not just yet, at any rate. My theory hinges on a couple of things about which I want to see what veerus has to say before I definitively make a statement about them.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Wait, it gets better, Ser. Roleblocks probably resolve before kills, and malt got a phase counter D4. So if malthusis is scum, he wouldn't have been able to kill D4, and his only possible target D5 would have been me.

Vote: malthusis.

...when was malthusis confirmed town, veerus?

[Trumpet of Doom]

No, I only have one phase counter. Any theory that depends on me having two will be wrong.

...when was malthusis confirmed town, veerus?

He wasn't.

Then where did you get this from:

It makes sense that TOD tried to kill you yesterday since you were the only truly confirmed town and failed due to phasing.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Oh, my bad. That makes yet another game I've misread something in...

[Trumpet of Doom]

While malt is saying I'm pretty much the only possible scum left, I'm nearly sure it's actually malthusis. Here's why:

His claim that he's untargetable? That's BS, because he's claimed he got a phase counter D4 and veerus claimed he gave malt a phase counter D4. I can see malt claiming untargetable as "the vig doesn't need to waste his/her/its time on me" because we thought there was still a vig in the game at that point (to explain the ortolan kill; my personal theory is that Alpha and Beta doublekilled ort D2).

Need I explain further? He lied when he claimed untargetable, and there's no good town reason to do so. If I must talk more, chew on this:

Assume I'm scum. Percy would have had no reason to suspect that I would come back D4, and so would probably have sent in the mafia kill saying he would make the kill. It would have gone through unless he targeted malthusis, and (incoming WIFOM) looking at his posts, it doesn't look like Percy thought malt was sufficiently obvtown to deserve the kill (he did say "I'm happy to accept veerus as 100% confirmed town", which suggests to me that he would have gone for veerus unless they were scumbuddies). But he would have had to go for malthusis for me (or anyone besides malthusis) to be scum.

So I'm not scum. Since I'm not, and we seem to be treating Seraphim and veerus as confirmed town, malthusis is the only option. Q.E.D.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Nice work Trumpet, especially.

Sigged. Thanks!

Panzer's taking me out of the game was actually really good for me. Especially with my lurking D1 and (I think) D2. When I came back, I had to refresh myself on the game, essentially replacing back in, and I think I play better as a replacement.

On that note, Panzer, what made you choose me to take out of the game? And for so long? Am I really that good?