Medieval Mafia - Game Over

[stark]

Frustrating that I have to do a long post now. Oh well.

1.

Why didn't you simply read qwint's posts? There is only a handful of them.

2.

I propose it is because you already know his orientation... so you weren't even curious.

3.

But answer, please.

(I numerated the quote by thoughts)

1.That is a counter-productive means of investigation. I will make a metaphor.

Think of a game of mafia as a jungle. Each player has their own part of the jungle.

Before I started posting again, most of the players were in qwints part of the jungle.

Now in mafia, people look at how other people are playing, what they say and what they do, and make a conclusion as to whether they are scum or not from that as the game goes on.

Now think of that as navigating through someones part of the jungle.

KMD is really the main person pushing a qwints lynch (at least he was), so in this case, he can be Doctor Livingstone.

So Doctor Livingstone is, (right now I'm addressing the past few pages in which qwints was the primary focus, as I haven't gotten around to addressing the case against me just yet) at this point in the game, as confident as he can be that qwints is scum. This can be symbolized by Dr. Livingstone reaching the cannibal's hut.

So Dr. Livingstone (KMD) has been there for a while. So now, I can be H.M. Stanley, a newcomer to the Qwints Jungle. I'm also trying to find my way to the Cannibal's Hut at the center of the Jungle. I know that Dr. Livingstone is already there, so I yell out:

"DR. LIVINGSTONE, I PRESUME! WOULD YOU BE SO KIND, OLD CHAP, AS TO TELL ME HWHERE THE PATH TO THE CANNIBAL'S HUT IS?"

In response I get:

" 'FRAID NOT, OLD BEAN! YOU'D BEST FIND IT YOURSELF!"

This is where the issue of efficiency comes in. If I do as Dr. Livingstone suggests, I will eventually arive at the same place where he is, with probably the same information. So we're on the same page. That's nice.

-----

My alternative is very different, and I believe to be more effective.

It is the human condition that every person has their own interpretation of things.'

If Dr. Livingstone simply tells me where the path is, I will work my way through it. In this way, I will gather information about qwints. However, I also get insight into the thought process of Dr. Livingstone, why he turned this way at the large tree as opposed to the other way (interpreted/read into a quote one way or another).

Using this scum-hunting method, I am gathering information about twice as many players with half the effort.

I hope that is satisfactory to explain my playstyle.

-----------------

2. That's wrong for two reasons

The first reason is that this accusation is not only unsubstantiated, but undefined.

I propose it is because you already know his orientation... so you weren't even curious.

This came out of some strange, 4th dimension orifice. I know of no post that I have made that would, even if you climb the large tree, dig a hole, plant some trees, and write a thesis on the effects of vitamin C on fertility in koalas, that would lead you to the above conclusion.

This assertion is also undefined in that you are not saying what I think his orientation is. Town? Scum? 3rd party? Even if I did know what qwints orientation is, it is by no means indicative of whether I am town or scum.

I'm also confirmed town anyways.

3. Question?

----------------------------------------

I hope that cleared some things up. Moving on.

Besides, at this point in the game, reading is not important. We have only one player dead, who gives us no leads. Once scum start dying, then we can go back and analyze posts etc., but more information is gathered in the early stages of the game by simply observing players reactions in the present.

How will we go back and analyze

your

posts if you aren't reading?

In my view, mafia is a persistant role reversal of Doctor Livingstone and HM Stanley. Once I have arrived at a conclusion, I become Dr. Livingstone, and you become Stanley, and you can walk your own investigative path.
--------------------------------

Moving on again:

So, the case on him if I'm not mistaken:
-fence-sitting DGB vs TSQ.
-rolefishing on Jebus
-calling out Caboose with no case
-lurking

1. I honestly see no document commanding me to take an issue on every petty squabble that comes up. This is not scummy.

2. Hardly.

3. I "called out" Caboose simply because in the Caboose vs. Hasdgfas battle over how much information should be shared with the town, I agreed with Hasdgfas. (It should be noted that, inadvertantly, I noticed how defensive Caboose immediately became. I will archive that for future reference.)

4. Your point?
------

PopTartajo softclaimed???

not overtly.... I just am reading him that way...with his funny spelling of 'optymal' and everything....

PopTajo is a native spanish speaker. 1 letter change is not worth mentioning. Also, don't post when you're drunk.

---------------

Our dayvig could do worse than shooting sam.samhorn tomorrow.

Don't tell other people to do things that you and your friends can do just as well tonight.

---------------------

Lets just lynch one of them.

If you twirl your moustache any harder it might fall off.

-------------------------

stark is ahead in the count. Curiously, some players find him worth defending. Why, when stark himself feels differently?

What? I feel differently about being defended? That's atleast a 5th dimension orifice that that came out of.

I'm sorry that you feel my contributions have not been up to par. I hope that in the future I may earn your much-coveted respect.

[Yosarian2]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

Well, for one, qwints first softclaimed and then claimed vanillia. For no reason. (No, wait; he gave a reason, he claimed he was "softclaiming vanillia to prove softclaiming isn't anti-town", or some garbage like that, and then refused to explain it when asked how that makes any kind of sense at all.)

[stark]

I'd like to point out that when I just saw stark's name as viewing this subforum, a minute ago, I got excited that he might post, and defend himself.

But he did not. Apparently, he read, and left without posting.

Wow, you're cool.

[Yosarian2]

But I will say this.
I read Pop as sftclaiming.. and sam as softclaiming.

On a side note; I didn't see anything either of them said, at all, as softclaiming; so this almost sounds like camm is fishing here, especally in regards to Sam.

[Caboose]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

stark crap attacked me and retreated for a long time. qwints didn't.

I "called out" Caboose simply because in the Caboose vs. Hasdgfas battle over how much information should be shared with the town, I agreed with Hasdgfas.

I disagree with someone you agree with. Therefore, I am scum?
That doesn't follow.

It should be noted that, inadvertantly, I noticed how defensive Caboose immediately became.

It should be noted that being defensive, especially after a crap attack, is NOT a scumtell.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm also confirmed town anyways.

[stark]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

stark crap attacked me and retreated for a long time. qwints didn't.

I "called out" Caboose simply because in the Caboose vs. Hasdgfas battle over how much information should be shared with the town, I agreed with Hasdgfas.

I disagree with someone you agree with. Therefore, I am scum?
That doesn't follow.

It should be noted that, inadvertantly, I noticed how defensive Caboose immediately became.

It should be noted that being defensive, especially after a crap attack, is NOT a scumtell.

You were not the center of attention then. You are still not the center of attention. Your over-zealous defense of yourself is more scummy than my initial reason for "crap attacking" you. I'm sorry to have incurred the wrath of someone who thinks of mafia dynamics in terms of simian interaction. I didn't even vote for you. Calm down.

[scotmany12]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

stark crap attacked me and retreated for a long time. qwints didn't.

So because stark said he was getting scummy vibes from you, while qwints didn't, stark is scum, but qwints is allowed to be useless? OMGUS much?

I'm also confirmed town anyways.

Elaborate stark.

[DrippingGoofball]

How much pot would I have to smoke to understand stark's post?

[Yosarian2]

How much pot would I have to smoke to understand stark's post?

Eh? Made perfect sense to me.

[Xylthixlm]

Who is less scummy, populartajo or Caboose?

[Yosarian2]

Who was that question directed to, Xyl?

[Xylthixlm]

Who was that question directed to, Xyl?

Anyone who wants to answer it.

[stark]

How much pot would I have to smoke to understand stark's post?

Eh? Made perfect sense to me.

Thank you.
------------------------

I'm also confirmed town anyways.

stark is town; i guarantee it.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

stark crap attacked me and retreated for a long time. qwints didn't.

So because stark said he was getting scummy vibes from you, while qwints didn't, stark is scum, but qwints is allowed to be useless? OMGUS much?

I'm also confirmed town anyways.

Elaborate stark.

It's blatantly obvious, and I wish I'd had time to post yesterday.

GTFO stark. NOW.

Unvote

[Xylthixlm]

Well then.

unvote, vote qwints

[Yosarian2]

Well, considering this whole clain of posts:

I'm buying the zwet claim.

Unvote

Why?

I have role-based info that leads me to believe that your claim is true.

Unvote zwet. I'm pretty sure he's telling the truth.

I'm not sold on the Jebus case since there are other lurkers here (CW, stark).

You already came out and said that you have information to believe that he is town. If you have said information, you not releasing it is hurting the town. Call it rolefishing, but no one is going to believe you until you explain it fully.

That would require a full roleclaim, which I'm not giving.
No, not releasing the info is not bad for the town, it's bad for the scum's ability to decide if I'm worth nightkilling or not.

And considering that he was right about Zwet being town, and that he was therefore trying very hard and sticking his neck out pretty far to try and prevent a town-lynch, I'm willing to consider Caboose as (provisionally) pro-town for now. We'll know more eventually when Caboose does a full role-claim, but for the moment, I would not be willing to consider a Caboose lynch at all today.

As for populartajo; I'm not sure about him. For one thing, I don't really get what his case was on Farside or on hascow. However, he seemed pretty sure about it, so I'm not sure why he dropped it to vote Stark, or why he was defending qwints so hard then voted someone lse for lurking. None of that is necesarally scummy, but it's very interesting and I don't really understand his logic for any of it, and I expect to look back on it later once I know more about the alignments of some of those people.

[Xylthixlm]

stark is town; i guarantee it.

Is that a "you can lynch me if I'm wrong" guarantee or a "I'll furiously backpedal if I'm wrong" guarantee?

sam.samhorn never answered this question.

[crywolf20084]

Stark, I refuse to read your wall of text, just like I refuse to read all wall's of txts.

If you had a specific point to it, feel free to post it.

[sam.samhorn]

just for clarification: I have no role information that implies that stark is good. Or bad. I just said that I guarantee that he's town because this wagon is stupid.

[sam.samhorn]

Sam.. why do you ignore me?

and Scot.. please explain! Are you saying I am similar to stark?

huhwhat? where did I ignore you. I apologize if I did, it wasn't intentional

[Tarhalindur]

first off

unvote

I want a clean slate as I read what's happened since Thursday.


Post 764 - kore: what's wrong with a case "out of thin air"? I realized I had been getting bad vibes from kmd all game, and decided to go look at him a bit closer.
Post 771 - qwints: wait, so what? That's a horrible reason for a softclaim, especially when it does the exact opposite thing that you're trying to do.
Post 774 - Yos: I agree with Yosarian2.
Post 781 - DGB: So one post you like is better than everything else he's done?
Post 788 - Caboose: Why isn't it scummy?
Post 795 - Jebus: *twitch*
Post 800 - scot: stark's not posting at all. How would he be able to jump from one popular wagon to another?
Post 809 - Xyl: Why is this a higher priority than qwints, who actually is being scummy?
Post 826 - Xyl: I really don't like this post by Xyl, because he's blaming someone else for something that's completely his fault.
Post 846 - camn: Got any reasons for that or just throwing it out there?
Post 869 - tajo: Thanks for noticing I was V/LA, tajo, it's not like I was lurking. I didn't post

anywhere

from Thursday-Tuesday. Also, if he is scum, we shouldn't let qwints survive to following days.
Post 882 - tajo: It seems to me like this is saying that you know qwints is town. Why is that? Would you rather lynch someone who's not going to be useful in the future or someone who will actually do stuff that we can find out if they're scum later?
Post 901 - kmd: Hmm, I dislike the "no one can look at your voting records" argument. I find looking at "voting records" is talked about as being a better idea than it actually is. Looking at everything else is usually smarter, with looking at vote

context

being the best idea.
Post 912 - qwints: this doesn't say anything. Can you actually say something in this game?
Post 917 - sam: Saying that you're not going to read Xyl's posts is anti-town. What if you're in endgame with him and one other person?
Post 926 - sam: Not reading a certain person's posts is really anti-town.
Post 943 - Xyl: Why? what's

wrong

right with qwints?
Post 963 - farside: Is that really all you have to say?
Post 973 - qwints: How have you not been lynched yet?
Post 984 - Xyl: This seems like a possible lead-in to an attack on Yos. Xyl, why'd you feel it necessary to make this comment?
Post 988 - kmd: What is interesting about this? This seems to be yet another inane comment that you're making too many of in this whole game.'
Post 1004 - Xyl: Why? What has he done to make you think that?
Post 1006 - tajo: Dang it tajo, I was V/LA. Did you not catch that when multiple people said it?
Post 1010 - Xyl: What evidence against him was weak? Why is a fast wagon a sign of the wagoned player being town as opposed to pretty obvious scum?
Post 1019 - sam: A) I've been V/LA, B) I'm not scum, C) the rest of the town finds other people scummier
Post 1022 - Xyl: I'm not really a big fan of pulling out your own meta as a defense. meta should be a defense looked at by others to try to figure out if you're scum or town.
Post 1027 - Rogueben: I think qwints has the most value at this point. Jebus has been replaced, so I'm giving the replacement time to let me get a good read on him.

conclusions:
farside is way too quiet this game. I've never seen her this quiet. Feels off to me.
I don't like Xyl/Kore claming their own meta as their defense, although Kore feels better to me as she was attempting to explain why she uses her meta, but I don't remember seeing too much from Xyl besides "I always do this, so it's not scummy". If I'm missing something though, feel free to point it out. Not to mention that he tried to blame the derailing of the qwints wagon on Kore when nobody else even cared and he was the only one to unvote qwints because of it.

FoS: Xyl

I'm not a fan of tajo trying to build my wagon while I was V/LA, but I can somewhat understand it.
Looking back at kmd's case after some time away from the game, it's not as bad as I originally thought, but it was still a bit difficult to find the points.
qwints really needs to die. Not going to vote immediately as A) I want a votecount to see what it looks like and B) I want people to actually read this before night.

Pages 21-now/u]
Post 514 - Seraphim: Really? That's the only reason you brought up Jester? We've seen the same thing from tajo and he wasn't a jester. Bringing up Jesters is completely anti-town
Post 528 - Empking: THE HAMMER IS NOT THE SCUMMIEST VOTE. I HATE THIS ARGUMENT.
Post 537 - Seraphim: Saying they could be a Jester is the silliest reason ever to not vote for a scummy player.
Post 552 - ShadowGirl: Again, saying it was a good night. Don't like this.
Post 554 - BA: Same thing. We know it was good. Don't post that it was to look like town.
Post 557 - Jebus: Don't pay attention to the bah post. It's possible he was just trying to screw with us.
Post 560 - skitzer: Yes, we know. Do you have any non-inane comments to add to the game?
Post 565 - ShadowGirl: You didn't have any strong suspicions, but did you have suspicions?
Post 568 - Seraphim: That's a terrible excuse for terrible play.
Post 573 - massive: Oh I forgot you were in this game. Any non-inane comments to add?
Post 575 - skitzer: That's a very weak case for this point in the game, skitzer. What a noncommital post.
Post 581 - massive: What a terrible post. You claim we're not scumhunting, but if you think so, why aren't you doing anything yourself?
Post 611 - massive: what?
Post 619 - BA: What sense does it make?
Post 650 - Jebus: Wait, how do you know that there are more japanese mafia? Why are you FoSing the people who wagoned you early? Why are you FoSing me and ckd?
I also want to point this wonder of a quote out:

Note: Curiouskarmadog makes the hammer against a claimed doc. Not worthy of an FoS, but still noteworthy.

You FoS people for random wagons, but don't FoS CKD for the hammer against a claimed doc and instead call it noteworthy? Could you elaborate please?

Post 665 - gorckat: Don't like this post for some reason. Doesn't seem like gorckat
Post 671 - skitzer: What another wonderful inane comment by skitzer.

Final Thoughts

ShadowGirl: Likes to stay out of the spotlight. I don't understand why she was so unwilling to believe tajo and emp were scum. Also, there were a few instances of defending other players that I didn't like.
skitzer: Hasn't posted very much at all. Most of what he's said has been inane comments. What hasn't been inane hasn't felt right to me.
BA: Don't like his play much. Most of it has been said already.
Seraphim/gorckat: Brought up Jester. That almost makes me want to vote him just for that. His other posts have also not been good, IMO.
massive: hasn't said anything.
Sierra has been quiet recently which I find very interesting.
Where's Ku_F and Rush?



Anyway, I am now caught up and will start off with a

Vote: ShadowGirl
HoS: skitzer, gorckat
FoS: BA, massive, Sierra, Ku_F

Okay.

Point 1: Stark lynch is bad. This has been made abundantly clear. Any further questioning of him is bad. GTFO him, people.
Point 2: Hasdgfas is either town or scum with Xyl. That means he's probably town. That means he's a bad lynch today.
Point 3: Xyl looks pretty town after isolation read. No IIoA, at any rate.
Point 4: Qwints lynch is okay (about equal with CryWolf), but Korejora lynch is much better. Seriously, IIoA, people (no scumhunting from CounselWolf OR Korejora). Got time to force a claim?

Vote: Korejora

(will switch to Qwints on Monday if necessary)

[Tarhalindur]

Stark, I refuse to read your wall of text, just like I refuse to read all wall's of txts.

If you had a specific point to it, feel free to post it.

You're lucky that Korejora is scummier than you are.

[Xylthixlm]

just for clarification: I have no role information that implies that stark is good. Or bad. I just said that I guarantee that he's town because this wagon is stupid.

I see you're actually reading my posts.

unvote, vote stark

[Xylthixlm]

Tarhalindur: What does IIoA stand for?