Mini 768- Root of All Evil (Game Over)

[Jazzmyn]

Vote: Jazzmyn

The inability to spell 'jasmine' obviously means that she's dropped out of school and become involved in criminal activities.

No, that was, quite obviously, my parents, who saddled me a mis-spelled name. Me, I'm the black sheep of the family for being the white sheep of the family.

Vote: ChiefSkye4

until he explains what he did to (and where he buried) ChiefSkye1, ChiefSkye2, and ChiefSkye3.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

(1)Why are you ignoring what I have posted? (2) Do you then accept my implicit agreement clause and the accompanying suspicion with failure to comply with my plan? (3) Why do you defend from a random vote?

*I added the numbers for ease of reference in response.

(1) I ignored what you posted initially because I thought it was a joke, since it seemed to me to be utterly ridiculous on its face, thus I did not consider that it had been written seriously.

(2) I do not agree with your initial premise, nor with your decree that anyone who does not do as you ask implicitly agrees with your plan, nor with your assertion that anyone who does not do as you ask is, therefore, inherently suspicious. Frankly, I think your attempt to bandwagon a player who had not even picked up his role PM nor checked into the thread, is ridiculous. You say that it was to apply pressure - but that could not possibly be effective when the player was not even present. Moreover, you provided no basis for your assertion that Pablo is a weak player who would crack under pressure and reveal his alignment, and no basis for your assertion that if he is town-aligned, he would be "least damaging to the town dead". Your casual dismissal of a player who was not even here to defend himself, frankly, stinks.

(3) What you imagine to be a "defence" is nothing of the sort. It's called a joke - you should perhaps look into the meaning of the word some time.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

As it stands I really believe Verbosity has self esteem problems and wants us to off them, (Voted on first day)
So for now I will be changing my vote.

UNVOTE

But I am suspicious of of the Verb, but only little now, and would like to look more into it on Day 2.

Um, what? Self-esteem problems? What do you mean by that?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I meant their goal could be to actually get voted off day one. I've seen it.

Are you suggesting that Verb's a jester?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Wow, it's been busy here since I went to bed last night and worked today. I have quite a bit to catch up on, I see. I will do that asap, but in the meantime, I see that I still have my random vote on Chief, so I will:

Unvote: ChiefSkye4

and write some more once I catch up.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Having caught up on the posts, I am not convinced that Gateway is scum. He reads to me more like inexperienced townie and a "convenient" lynch target rather than scum. I will not be voting to lynch him at present.

Among those voting to lynch Gateway, I am most suspicious of MafiaSSK, as his vote came with nothing but a one-liner without any substance whatsoever. A lazy, jump-on kind of vote.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Hmm. Quite the turn of events.

Something is very not right about this, though. The claim went from getting a list of two names with one of the two being 'possible' scum and having the option of having the police deal with one of the two listed players...to being a list of 2 players comprised of one scum and one townie and having the option to kill one of them.

I thought the claim of being able to have a cop investigate a player might have been plausible, but having the mod provide a list of two players, among which one of them is scum each night and getting the opportunity at a 50% shot at killing scum each night? I'm not buying that.

Look at the metamorphosis here:

I've retired from the army here long before some of you were even born, and I still keep a few connections up high. By ten o'clock (night phase)

I get a list of two possible people one possible scum.

I can choose to pass that along in the morning... or ask my connections in the

police force to deal with the one I think is it

.

.Night Phase get list of two people one

possible

scum
.Choice to have one

dealt with

, or report in the morning the two names.

Night phase - Two names,

one scum

one townie.
(options)

Kill one

, report both to you all in the morning.

This is very much not right.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Might as well as explain it.. There is nothing stopping him from killing off someone and if the person he kileld was town we lynch the other. so tonight Scum will kill and he'll kill and then we'll be down to like 9..and depending on his kill we'd either have a confirmed townie..or a confirmed scum which we lynch.

Not quite from the sounds of it. He says he gets an option to EITHER kill someone OR report the names to us. I take that to mean that he can't do both, so it's not clear to me how we could 'lynch the other' if he is precluded from saying who it is (although I suppose he could just vote for that someone and we would all get the hint, unless there is some restriction imposed in that regard).

But, still, it does indeed seem like it would be overbalanced to be provided the name of one of the scum each night. If he chooses correctly, that's one dead scum every night. If he chooses incorrectly, he still knows the identity of one scum every night and all he has to do is vote him the next day to signal the identity of the scum. That can't be right.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

The thing is that there is a big difference between an investigatory role and a killing role, and Gateway has just morphed his claim from one to the other within the span of a couple of posts.

Gateway:

which is it that you are claiming? It can't possibly be both.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

It isn't an investigation role as I don't know which is the mafia, but using the two names by day two we can really start to figure it out. I say let me make it tonight so that.
1.) They waste a kill on me tonight and maybe we get one today.
2.) I live to tomorrow and offer the two names, giving us a two possible people to work on.

Either one of those seem good and if I can't prove this role tomorrow (I need at least one night phase) then I'll be the insta lynch right?

Let's make this perfectly clear. Are you claiming that you have a town aligned killing role?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Regarding Jazzmyn's post: Jazzmyn, how do you feel about this now? Has you opinion changed at all? I, for one, find the gradual changes quite telling, I have serious doubts about Gateway.

My opinion about the metamorphosis of his claim has not changed. He initially claimed to

possibly

get a list of two players (which suggests that instead he might get a list of one or none), and that one of the players on any such list might

possibly

be scum. He claimed that he had the option to

ask

his police friends to

deal with

one of the names, or the option to have both names revealed in the thread the next day. That claim seems at least plausible to me (i.e. a sort of weak cop role) and assuming that the names are randomly generated. At that point, Gateway wasn't claiming to be a hands-on killer, but rather a sort of quasi-investigative role.

Then he morphed that into

definitely

getting a list of two people, one of whom might

possibly

be scum, and having a choice of having one of those two players

dealt with

, presumably by his cop friends to whom he previously alluded. Again, this suggests a weak cop role, where he gets to suggest a name to someone else for investigation, and he says nothing about any hands-on work of his own or anything about having any ability to get a result himself - rather, it suggests that a cop would get a result.

Then, he morphed that into a completely different scenario in which he

definitely

gets a list of two names each night, one of them is

definitely

scum, one of them is

definitely

town, and he gets to either

personally kill

one or report both names in the morning. This is vastly removed from his initial claim.

From that, I conclude that Gateway is either scum or an independent faction of some kind, out to achieve a personal win condition, and that he morphed his claim to try to convince the rest of us that he's town rather than scum or independent. I don't believe for one second that the game mod would give a town-aligned role two names every night with one being certain scum and one being certain town, because that would be a ridiculously unbalanced setup. But I also can't fathom why Gateway, as scum, would offer up such a convoluted and ever-morphing fake claim.

So, I'm leaning more toward the likelihood that he is an independent with a kill ability but certainly not that which he claims (i.e. getting two names each night, one a certain townie and one a certain scum).


Sekinj is behaving very bizarrely in staunch defence of Gateway, which makes me think that she is scum and that the scum think that Gateway can be of use to them, at least for a while until they decide to kill him off after he's outlived his usefulness to them.

These are relevant, please respond to them truthfully. They are litmus tests to determine how much you're trying to hide.

Oh, look, someone's taking first year psych classes. Well, far be it from me to dissuade anyone from higher education, even if it's a basket weaving course like psych 101, so I'll play.

Do you think you're insecure?

About certain things, yes.


@all
More later, and probably a vote, once I do a more thorough re-read of the last few pages and update my game notes and analysis.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Gateway:

without quoting your role PM,

please tell us what your win condition is.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

To Jazz. Again that -morph- everyone is talking about is because I thought you were modkilled for breaking character and naming the specifics of your role. So I tried to explain them in theme.

And most importantly please read this.

You say I changed my claim. No I said I get

two people, one possible scum.

The second time I said

two names and one is scum

.

They are they exact same thing.

No, Gateway, these two things do not mean the same thing at all. That is precisely the problem. One is plausible, the other is not.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Okay, I think that Gateway is an independent and sekinj is scum hoping to capitalize on Gateway's messed up claim, but I don't believe for a second that the game mod will give Gateway the names of a confirmed town and a confirmed scum every night since that would be a ridiculous setup.

So, sekinj is a better lynch today than Gateway.

Vote: sekinj

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Vote: Panzerjager

For all the reasons I have restated countless times.

Your vote would be better placed on sekinj, as she is obviously sucking up to you for her own scummy reasons (couldn't be more obvious). Just saying.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I do not intend to move my vote from sekinj. As I've already said, I think that Gateway is an independent and that sekinj is scum hoping to capitalize on Gateway's messed up claim. Her most recent posts only reinforce my beliefs in that regard.

Thus, sekinj is the best lynch for today.

@Mod:

the last few vote counts have said that Gateway has 6 votes but with only 5 names following. Can you please clarify whether this is a series of miscounts (or whether one of those players has a double vote)?


Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

No worries at all. Just wanted to make sure.

(And good luck with your finals.)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Just a quick head's up - I will have little to no access until Tuesday night.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Alright that's two..I have a theory. Let's lynch Gateway.

Vote:Gateway

How about telling us your theory first?

You're lying. I say we lynch Jazz and then Lynch Gateway

Oh, I am certain that Gateway is lying about

something

, but probably not about what you think it is.

Why did it say Molestargazer in the night list then. When it said Spoilium and I last time and both of us were you choices. This time it was Mole and Chief.

You aren't seriously suggesting that the game mod is so stupid that he would telegraph the night actions and the alignment of players other than those killed via his dawn flavour posts, are you? Do you think that the game mod is a complete and utter idiot? I sure don't.

And if you

are

seriously suggesting that, how is it that you didn't notice that Molestar and Archon were also both mentioned at the dawn of Day 2 (and the dawn of Day 3, for that matter) and that it wasn't just you and Spolium mentioned last day?

Also I have a feeling that Gateway makes a kill and can plant something on the person who was killed making them a death miller of sorts.

??? Now, you're suggesting that Gateway can kill at will and make everyone he kills turn up scum even though they aren't? Seriously?

There are no other kills. The scum wouldn't be dumb enough to go after gateway twice so they'd go after the doc.Hence there'd be a kill last night.

Pure, unadulterated WIFOM, of course.

The set up is supposed to be weird right? So why would this be an opition where he'd be able to death millerize us. We know the role is TOO broken to be in the game.

I don't understand this post. You have proposed an utterly ludicrous role scenario in which a single player can kill at will and then "death millerize" us and then you ask why it would be an option? The short answer is, it is NOT an option, and your suggestion is completely off the rails. The role that Gateway has claimed is too broken to be in the game, I agree, (and he is lying about it) but the role that you are suggesting for him is much more broken to be in the game. Again, you seem to be suggesting that the game moderator is an idiot. I don't think he is.


Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I understand your thinking but i think it's 11 vanilla townies vs this role.

No, it isn't.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Archon simply just called 911..

And what of molestar? You seem to have fogotten that he was also named both nights.

look Hitman sounds a lot like SK to me.

As I said on Day 1, I think he's an independent. I have good reason to believe this to be true.

Jazzy, I understand your thinking but i think it's 11 vanilla townies vs this role.

It isn't.

And I do believe the mod would telegraph this as he did with the first day.

I do not agree with your assertion that the mod did any such thing on Day 1 or on Day 2. That is just stupid. The game mod is not an idiot.

Although your desperately clinging on to your confirmed townie status so you could very well be scum..but then again..that would mean I'm scum.

What are you babbling about? Just because Gateway says I'm town does not mean that I am confirmed town, and I have never said any such thing.

So, your choice of words there, "desperately clinging on to your confirmed townie status" is very bizarre. Hmm... who among all of the players in this game have claimed to be "confirmed" as town thanks to Gateway? Oh, look, that would be you, Panz:

If you call me scum one more time for no reason, I'm policy lynching you for slandering a townie. You cleared me last night dude. I am CONFIRMED. If You're mafia the smart choice would be to pick a townie so that townie believe you.

Methinks the young man doth protest too much. You claimed not to believe his claimed role for a second (and I do not believe the details that he's claimed, as I have said from the outset) but the moment he claimed that you were a townie, you claimed that you were "confirmed" - in all caps, no less, as a result of his role claim. You can't have it both ways, champ. And you, of all people, should not be pretending that others have claimed to be "confirmed" when you are the only one who has done so.

And how about addressing the rest of my post, by the way?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

2
7
5
6
7
4
5

(for future reference)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

wow. Jazz, How do you know it isn't 11 townies and his role? Please do explain

Stop role fishing. I plan on claiming soon, in any event, as circumstances are such that I believe it to be in the town's best interests.

I WILL IGNORE YOU IN ALL OF OUR GAMES.

Oh, my, whatever would I do then?

I would be willing to give Gateway one more night, but no matter what he does or who he kills, we lynch him tomorrow.

I think that this is a good idea, because I think he is an independent rather than scum. If we lynch scum today, that would be great and quite possibly the last of them. If we hit scum tonight, through Gateway, that would be great and quite possibly the last of them. Thus, the independent would have to go tomorrow in either event.

I don't understand how we are at lylo?

Me, neither.

The way I see it is we have four options.
A) we keep following gateway and therefore no lynch today
B) we lynch gateway today
C) we lynch gateway tomorrow regardless of who he kills
D) we lynch one of the people he has confirmed, most likely jazz, to test his claim

I am thinking it would be in our best interests to do one of the last two.

It is the lack of mafia kills that has got me edgy, but this might be what the mafia are aiming for. Or, of course, they could have been doc-blocked/role-blocked.


Can someone explain the numbers to me.

I think that A is a good choice, I agree with C, and for reasons that will soon become clear, I disagree with D. As for the numbers, I can explain mine but I can't explain Archon's. I will do so when I claim, which will be soon.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I am confident Jazz will be making a role claim tomorrow. I understood her posting and think we should see if I can end the game tonight. If not take me out tomorrow.

Vote: No Lynch

I am actually going to do so today, so I would ask that this day not be finalized by way of no-lynch or otherwise until (a) those who haven't yet participated today do so; (b) I post my claim post; and (c) we all have the opportunity to discuss the best way to proceed after my claim.

(a) refers to Verbosity and MafiaSSK, neither of whom have commented on the game since this day started.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Claim: I am the jewelry store owner

I poured my life savings into my dream of opening up the store (after losing my job at a big corporation several years ago), and then I lost nearly everything when it was vandalized and robbed. Although I had some insurance, it wasn’t even close to being enough to cover the value of everything, so I was unable to reopen the store. So, now I’m working at a boring new job for which I am overqualified, but it pays the bills. I still have my apartment, my cat, the insurance money and a strong desire to seek retribution from the vandals and thieves who destroyed my life’s dream and threw our formerly tight-knit block into its current state of chaos.

I received an e-mail from a trained killer who was willing to kill the thieves for me, without leaving any evidence by which the killing could be linked to me, and each night I send the name of the person I want him to eliminate along with the price I am willing to pay him for the killing. I can only spend up to the total amount of my insurance money over the course of the whole game.

Essentially, I am a vigilante operating via this trained killer to try to kill the robbers, and I win when there are no more threats to the town.

However, I am not the only one the killer contacted. He may have contacted others whose motivations are different than mine, and who are bidding against me in an effort to get townies killed.

On Night 1, I sent in Spolium’s name along with a monetary offer. On Night 2, I sent in Chiefskye’s name, along with a monetary offer. Earlier today, I posted the number that I did to test Gateway, and his response proved to me that he is indeed the hired killer. (I don’t really want to give any more details than that on the offers at the moment because I am assuming that the anti-town faction also has a budget but I don’t know if theirs is the same as the amount of my insurance money or not, etc.)

If Gateway is to be believed about the names he was provided, that means that someone other than me sent in Panz’s name on Night 1 and sent in my name on Night 2. Whoever is sending in the other names and offers is anti-town, for obvious reasons, as it would make no sense for multiple townies to be trying to outmaneuver and outbid each other in trying to contract the killer’s services to kill scum, especially in view of the fact that there have been no mafia kills so far.

This is why I believe Gateway to be an independent third party with a separate win condition from town and scum both, and why I think he needs to be eliminated before too much longer. That said, if I am going to get another crack at hitting scum tonight, I need him alive to do so because I can only act through him.

This should give us lots to discuss.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@ jazz: so you picked correct scum both nights?

I find it extremely difficult to believe, myself. That is, in fact, the impetus for my claiming today.

I actually chose Chief because I thought he was the towniest and I didn't think Gateway would shoot a townie after staking everything yesterday on the plan that as soon as he killed a townie, we would lynch him.

Then Chief flipped scum, and I began to doubt the flip entirely.

There is no way I wanted to go into night again without getting this all out on the table and letting the town know what I had done. I have a hard time believing that both Spolium and Chief are scum.

It does seem to go against gateway's claimed role that one of his two names would definitely be scum as you could just as easily been wrong.

Exactly. That is how I knew on Day 1 that he was lying about the details of his role. I know full well that I can be (and often am) dead wrong in my suspicions, and once he morphed his claim into saying that he got the names of a 100% certain scum and a 100% certain townie, I knew that he was lying about that, but I still needed him in order to try to use my vig ability to kill scum.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

So I don't know who I get the names from, I only know one is from a townie that can gives me scum and I am the killer for the scum until I die (don't give me that crap about saving myself, it's true, I die they use their own killer and no longer have to pay me)

The "killer for the scum until you die" part makes sense and I was actually thinking that might be the case earlier today while trying to figure out why there were no mafia kills in addition to your kills. I thought that perhaps the mafia had a restriction that they could not NK anyone until you are gone, which was another reason to keep you alive for at least as long as I could afford to send in my offers.

My win condition is to be alive with with at least $100 grand when the scum are dead (had to distort that because I would get more of the "yeah right" with all the disbelief before.)

That sounds at least plausible on first read, but it could just as easily be that you win if you are alive with at least $100K and the scum win. Plus, if you are not telling the truth, and if the flips are not accurate, then the town is in serious trouble already.

So there is my total role. I've been taking the lower bid each time because it is townie. The town should keep me as I seem to be one part of Jazz's role, plus if I die the mafia gets their own killer.

You are the only mechanism by which I can utilize my vigilante ability, but we still have the town's scumhunting abilities and lynching abilities to rely upon, and who knows there might be some other town power role that is triggered by further events.

I am uncertain about the flips, particularly since I actually had Chief pegged as town and sent his name to test you, as mentioned previously.

I am still confident there are only three scum. I've proven my role two nights in a row, let me pop the third tonight.

The problem is that you can't "pop the third tonight" unless I accurately pinpoint him for you, and I am not convinced that I did so on Night 1 and Night 2, let alone confident that I could do so again tonight.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

EBWOP: Jazz doesn't guess, Jazz makes a bid on the already confirmed scum. It has to beat the other bid for the town. So every night Jazz's bid is against scum.

No, this is 100% wrong. I do not receive any information from the mod about anyone's alignment. I have to make my own choices based on my own reads, suspicions, ideas, etc. The suggestion that the game mod gives me "confirmed scum" to submit a bid on is ludicrous, not to mention a great big, whopping lie.

Vote: Gateway

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Actually, I don't want to put you at L-1 just yet as we need more discussion.

Unvote

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Fabulous game mechanic, that!

On Day 1 when it looked like Gateway was going to get lynched, I was panicking because I needed him to use my vigging/bidding/killing role. When I saw sekinj falling on her sword for him, I thought that she was my counterpart re: the bidding for the services of the hired killer, so I had to argue strongly in favour of her as scum in order to save Gateway. I was thrilled, to say the least, when she got lynched instead of Gateway, but I was confused when she flipped town.

Thanks, sekinj!

Spolium, I had pegged as uber-scum, thus my Night 1 choice. I assumed that the bad guys had the same amount of money as me, though (but it turns out they had 2.5 times as much as me! Wowsa!) so I was trying to choose a number that would outbid them but still leave me enough for at least one more vig attempt on another night if I survived that long.

ChiefSkye, I actually thought he was town and I thought that Gateway wouldn't kill him if Gateway was really aligned with the scum, since he had misrepresented some things and had put himself in a position in which he would be lynched if he killed a townie. So, when ChiefSkye flipped scum, too, I was a bit surprised.

I didn't intend to hammer Gateway - that was accidental, due partly to me not being up to date on the number of votes and due partly to a non-player (who later turned out to be an alt) voting. I've never been in a game where a non-player's vote (even if by an alt) counted for anything. My intention was to voice my displeasure with Gateway for him lying when he said that I got "confirmed scum" every night and that therefore, I was simply bidding against someone else, and for his lying previously about him getting a 100% confirmed town every night and a 100% confirmed scum every night. I fully intended to do what I could to keep him alive for one more day, hopefully get him to come clean with some of the stuff about his role (not everything, as obviously he had to have a separate win condition than the town) and get as much discussion out there as possible, but that obviously didn't happen.

I also thought that SSK and Verbosity were scum. So, it looks like I would have turned out being 3 for 4, even if accidentally.

But if it wasn't for Gateway choosing to take my lower bid on Night 1 and killing Spolium, we would have been in a very different position. Then, as it turns out, the scum didn't send in a bid on Night 2, so that meant Gateway had no choice but to accept my offer. Things could have been very different, indeed, if SSK wasn't such a chronically scummy lurker and if either of the remaining scum had sent in an offer/kill request on Night 2, and I think that Gateway really deserves a LOT of credit for this Town win!

Anyway, that was a blast! Thanks to all for a fun game, and a big thank you to Battousai for a great mechanic, a fun theme, and for moderating.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

This was a great game and I feel it helped out my play greatly.

I think you did a great job, Gateway, and as I said in my prior post above, you deserve a lot of credit for the Town win.

I assumed the scum wanted to make me look bad when I had no names (which is why I just made one up)

And I'm glad it was my name that you made up on Day 3; that was helpful, too.

Regards,
Jazz