Mini 768- Root of All Evil (Game Over)

[Gateway]

No obviously it was

Vote: Thadmiral

In the kitchen with a wrench.

[Gateway]

Unvote
Vote: kpaca

I think it is a great idea, "All not agreeing with me are wrong.", thieves don't have that sort of confidence.

[Gateway]

Unvote
Vote: Verbosity

[Gateway]

Unvote
Vote: kpaca

I think it is a great idea, "All not agreeing with me are wrong.", thieves don't have that sort of confidence.

Unvote
Vote: Verbosity

Why the sudden change?

The first was another joking post, which is why I did not push the Vote for kpaca.

Verbosity's I made without any statement because I really wanted to see Verbosity's reply. As it stands I really believe Verbosity has self esteem problems and wants us to off them, (Voted on first day)

So for now I will be changing my vote.

UNVOTE

But I am suspicious of of the Verb, but only little now, and would like to look more into it on Day 2.

[Gateway]

I read a post wrong, actually while there is a chance Verb's goal is to die day one, after rereading I think that it is a safe bet Verb is actually a gun-ho townie.

[Gateway]

Would Mafia push that hard though, Verb has pretty much guaranteed a day two lynching if they lead a bandwagon in such a strong way and it is wrong.

Seems to me that verbosity is only fitting to their name with the extensive pressure.

As I said in post 31, we will really know better about Verbosity on day two. Right or wrong, I think Verb is just gun-ho

[Gateway]

I meant their goal could be to actually get voted off day one. I've seen it.

[Gateway]

Alright to address a few points
Spolium - Why do I think he's gun-ho, because I feel he's living up to the term verbosity, we'll know more on day two. See post 36

To Jazzmyn - While I sure hope not, as I feel that role really ruins a game (unless it is a quick pick me up game or the like) There is always that chance so I decided to try and read it as a gun-ho person (they do exist you know) until day two.

Again, reading the above posts Verb is either scum, or a gung-ho person that likes to move in a direction and for the second is perhaps flustered by us talking and discussion the idea instead of doing it. (should see me play call of duty and explain the concept of rushing B in the beginning of every map and ignoring the one they start by, it looks just about the same)

At Azhrei - I am not defending, where did you get defending? I was asked why I changed my vote, I said I felt they were Gung-Ho or a Jester. Not really defending so much as saying I'd rather find out on day two.

Trust me I think Verbosity is blowing wind, and stirring up more trouble then they are worth, but still I am going on the vote that they are townie.

With that said though, and the fact Verbosity has us focused on someone we shouldn't, we might as well make Verbosity the day one lynch.

Vote: Verbosity

[Gateway]

Yes I change my vote often, I've never once tried to convince anyone else that Verbosity is a townie, I only answered why

-I-

think that, as per the question.

And yes, I have -zero- idea who is Mafia on day one, so if I had to make a vote, although I am not sure, I would vote Verbosity over anyone else at this point.

Yes I am voting while not sure because to claim you are 100% sure on day one is ignorance, so I am voting on the townie I think may be scum. I change my vote a lot because I don't have the "I am right!!!!" attitude. If a few posts say something that goes against (or maybe with) something I was thinking, I change my vote.

Also I never said to speed up the lynch, I just said who I thought at the time. You're over analyzing on this one.

[Gateway]

Again, you first say I am defending Verbosity like crazy, which I never do.

I am asked why my opinion at that time was to unvoted while looking over who has me more suspicious. After a couple days no one, so since I think -everyone- is town on day one, the townie I think is most likely scum is Verbosity.

You seem to have an issue with me changing me opinion, why is that?

I happily explain my opinions at the time so I think it makes perfect sense for my vote. Also I would like to add this isn't the first time I voted on Verbosity, I had voted for Verbosity well before you claim I started defending them.

Also while I played mafia plenty for enjoyment, until recently I never learned as many terms and strategies. So "L-(n)" means little to me. It might to you, but at this point I think it matters little as long as you are willing to change your vote. If anything that might bring out the scum that try to push it over the edge right?

[Gateway]

Note that my above post does not contain any thing about you defending him. At all. (That doesn't mean I don't still think you are, but it's not in that post). Next, I have no issue with you changing you opinion, that is not an issue. My opinion of you will most likely change constantly throughout this game. What I have an issue with is your logic.

Don't distort and hope people don't read back, you accused me of being a scumpartner to Verbosity in post 42 then accused me of defending Verbosity in post 47.

Why do I get this feeling that Gateway and Verbosity are scumpartners?

From nearly every one of your recent posts, I have felt that you have been attempting to defend the actions of Verbosity. You keep saying how you think he's a townie, but there really isn't much reasoning behind it.

You just lied. Next you say how can I vote on a person I think is townie. Let me say it again on its own line since I've repeated it already

**************Without deaths, cops, or some other information we can only assume everyone is townie on day one********************

So yes my day one strategy is to vote on the -TOWNIE- I think is most likely scum. Since there is no possible way any of us know who is scum on day one.

Have you ever heard of mutually exclusive events? You know, you can't roll a 6 on a die at the same time as you roll a 2.


That kind of thing. SOmeone cannot possibly be a mafiate AND a townie at the same time. (Well, maybe there's a really screwy role out there, but I doubt it). They are one or the other (or a 3rd party), but not both. Yet you continue to stay adamant that you think Verbosity is a townie

No wrong, but you admit a die you know has a 6 could roll a 2. I see a lot of sixes here and I was voting on the die I thought was most likely to roll a two

Also, that first time you voted for Verbosity was not exactly very townish in my eyes. The post consisted of naught but an unvote and vote, and that is always something that strikes me as scummy. Always provide some reasoning when you vote. Seriously.

Bringing up something else brought up in a previous post again? I answered that question in post 31, but I'll save you the back button, someone already asked the same thing and I explained well I think. Verbosity was making some large posts, so right after one I quietly changed my vote to Verbosity, and although I was getting heat, kept my vote until I saw the effects of my pressure and then changed the vote with an explanation.

Now please, next time, actually read my posts properly. You have ignored things that I have actually said, and imagined things I have not.

Ditto to you.


To Verbosity - Your last post helped me make up my mind about you, I read it as more winded then defensive, and I don't think your a Joker as that would just ruin the game.

Unvote

Now....

Given that "verbosity" means an excess of word use (typically more than necessary to clarify a point), I find it odd that you attribute this to towniness, when it is a null tell at best.

I said I thought that is why he uses large posts, not why he is town. Basically you just repeated what I did

I

am

curious about why you think he has guarunteed a D2 lynch in the event that he is wrong. Please expand upon this.

Verb had a gung=ho attitude about -one- player on page -one-. If they would have turned out to be a townie, who would have been first on the chopping block day two? I think my statement was common sense

Scum could change their vote a lot to see which bandwagon starts rolling. What do you think of that?

You just used a term I looked up, null-tell. Well a townie would quickly change their vote just as quickly if they thought they had an innocent person in their sights as well wouldn't they? So that's sort of a null-tell

I find it interesting that you've thrown your vote on/off/on a controversial player. Your opinion of him seems to shift when the wind changes. Can you clarify, in bullet point form, what you find townie/scummy about Verbosity, and why the latter outweighs the former?

[Gateway]

Can't edit, but I meant 'You're' in the above post instead of 'your' (awesome meds, but making my mind loopy with writing words oddly)

While I am writing though Azhrei, I will address once concern I missed.

You mentioned my vote changing making you have concerns for my logic. I promise that is just my day one playstyle (you meta people can see that in my other games) On day two there are solid facts to work from and on so my voting will be a lot less jumpy starting then.

[Gateway]

Bleh, sorry for the triple post. The "I find it interesting that you've thrown your vote on/off/on a controversial player. Your opinion of him seems to shift when the wind changes. Can you clarify, in bullet point form, what you find townie/scummy about Verbosity, and why the latter outweighs the former? " in post 63 is a quote from Spolium that I was going to address.

It is simple Spolium.

My vote changes because one statement or another made me question my logic, and I am quick to take off a vote that could be wrong.
I can't unlynch a person, but I can always throw my vote back on as needed

As it stands right now I think Verbosity is a townie because that is the gut hunch I get (I'm a gut hunch person on day one, "logic" doesn't really work since we have only theory and not a single fact on day one)

[Gateway]

Explain what is scummy. I've addressed concerns and explained my 'scummy' behavior. Now after people have made large posts to express their questions to me I made a post to address the issues (that mattered) I thought I had failed to address before.

Maybe you'd care to go at least a little in-depth. The very syntax of your vote (no content, what brought up suspicion before) is what put the headlights on me. So how can you not be a hypocrite and do the same? More likely you're scum.

In fact while your defense will be OMGUS when I do this, I've not thought a person scummy just for voting for me. To me I've answered the inquisition, and it seems scummy to throw out a vote at the end without any statement as to why you think I am lying.

Vote: MafiaSSK

[Gateway]

I have answered your question already Sekinj, read the post about the dice when I was asked about them. I made a false assumption that when when someone else asked the same question as you and I answered them you'd apply it. I see my mistake so I will put your name in front of the reply since that is the only way to get you to read it


*****I think everyone is a 6 on day one, I vote on whoever I think is most -likely- to roll a two****** That was the answer I gave when asked how I think a die can roll a 6 and 2 at the same time, a rewording of your post that came before.

To Sekinj - Your question how can I think someone townie and scum on the -first- day is easy. We have no facts, so everyone is townie in my mind, and since no lynch is bad on day one, I vote on the most likely to be scum.

Now I came off like I was being condescending, which would be true if you really couldn't grasp the similiarity, but I think you're smarter then that as Verbosity says and you're just trying to tag on an additional vote.

FoS: Sekinj

Those of you that have at least read my replies do me a favor and unvote before the final scum hammers the last vote in.

[Gateway]

Your answer demonstrates that you are still sitting the fence, and had you vote on someone you thougth as a townie. you only removed it when you got pressure for it.

1.) Sitting on the fence is a townie thing right, so why say that and vote scum.

2.) I was on the fence at the time, I clearly said that with my posts and my voting. You're repeating what I already said and trying to make it an accusation.

^ @gateway

just because you have replied doesn't mean your answer is satisfactory or that is absolves you.

You ask an opinion why I did something and I told you my logic... Scummy is a possible accusation, but not satisfactory? Was there a right and wrong answer, if so then the "right" answer would be whatever lie makes you happy.

Also rewording my opinion of choosing always on every game to assume everyone day one is townie into saying I accuse people of being both is not an A, B, question but a twisting of a previous answer so you could still get an accusation on.

I stand by my suspicion of you and MafiaSSK, who have really given the most slack reasons for your accusations, or stick by your accusations regardless of the answer.

[Gateway]

Your question was wrong, you failed to supply a correct answer amongst the choices.

So to answer your question once again.

***I think everyone on day one is townie and I vote on the scummiest****

So yes I can vote on a person I think is townie, it is no different from what you are doing now. If it is explain it, I would love to see that one.

You choose in your head to keep people guilty until proven innocent and throw on a vote to hang. I choose to assume everyone is innocent on day one and only throw my vote at who I think is the most likely at that moment. I change my vote the moment someone comes off as the better target.

yeah, I certainly didn't see that response, since my question involved an A and B choice.

Have you ever heard of mutually exclusive events? You know, you can't roll a 6 on a die at the same time as you roll a 2.

That kind of thing. SOmeone cannot possibly be a mafiate AND a townie at the same time.

No wrong, but you admit a die you know has a 6 could roll a 2. I see a lot of sixes here and I was voting on the die I thought was most likely to roll a two

There I answered it in a previous post and several other. Since I am L-1 though I will say this. In a game a person can always see who targeted them without good cause. I have several votes against me but I see them as reactions to other people that are refusing to react and sticking to an agenda.

Should I get lynched I think

MafiaSSK

and

sekinj

really seemed the least focused on answers and only focused on accusations.

[Gateway]

I wrote that before you posted, so -now- I think Verb is a Zealous townie, at a moment I thought Verb was a Joker or Scum. My vote changes -from- B to A because I considered posts that came after.

[Gateway]

Hmm, I think I see your issue now. Is it you feel I was avoiding your question?

You asked the question in an earlier post and before I could reply someone asked the dice question, which was a metaphoric rewording of your post. I answered the dice post and assumed it answered yours.

My question is it you don't believe enough to keep me near lynch?

[Gateway]

Using this auto speller and it screws words up.

It should have said,

My question is, what is it you don't believe enough about my answer to keep me near lynch.

[Gateway]

I often find myself addressing several questions at once, so perhaps the answer gets long as I assume people will read it in another explanation. I've been clear about my concerns against you and you haven't responded.

How about clearly stating your question towards me where everyone can see it, and I will once again answer it. Then we can see how you react.

[Gateway]

Gets lost, not long, I meant. The quick reply has me messing up more often then not. A habit that will remedy quickly.

[Gateway]

I don't care about the FoS, I think you are the first person to understand what I meant.

[Gateway]

Alright here, so I am forced to claim am I. So be it.

I've retired from the army here long before some of you were even born, and I still keep a few connections up high. By ten o'clock (night phase) I get a list of two possible people one possible scum. I can choose to pass that along in the morning... or ask my connections in the police force to deal with the one I think is it.

Still learning popular terms, but whatever the word is you have for that role, that is what I am. Not a cop, like a semi one I suppose.

[Gateway]

Probably going to be eliminated surely by the scum come tonight since I pose a threat, I ask you at least let me pass tonight and try to find one of them today. (I'll feel a little retribution in my passing)

[Gateway]

That is clearly fake. That role is broken and a half.

Unvote:Votegetaway

Broken in half, explain? I can't paste what was pm'd so I did my best to explain it using none of the words. Are you really voting because I wouldn't break a rule.

[Gateway]

How about this, since my words have a habit of being twisted. Tell me a set format and I'll do my best. I explained well enough I thought. To break it down.

.Night Phase get list of two people one possible scum
.Choice to have one dealt with, or report in the morning the two names.


If that is to much please the first mod that can delete this.

[Gateway]

Why is my claim fake. Without using any of the wording from my post it really is as simple as.

Night phase - Two names, one scum one townie.
(options) Kill one, report both to you all in the morning.

Explain how that is fake or not allowed in mafia. It was sent to me, it is allowed and I don't see a single part of it anyone can say is unrealistic.

[Gateway]

From my PM I mean.

[Gateway]

Still learning popular terms, but whatever the word is you have for that role, that is what I am. Not a cop, like a semi one I suppose.

Did your role PM not contain the 'term' or name of your role? it only contained a description?

If I can say the exact name I was PM'd let me know.

[Gateway]

It isn't an investigation role as I don't know which is the mafia, but using the two names by day two we can really start to figure it out. I say let me make it tonight so that.
1.) They waste a kill on me tonight and maybe we get one today.
2.) I live to tomorrow and offer the two names, giving us a two possible people to work on.

Either one of those seem good and if I can't prove this role tomorrow (I need at least one night phase) then I'll be the insta lynch right?

[Gateway]

Let's make this perfectly clear. Are you claiming that you have a town aligned killing role?

Regards,
Jazz

I already said I can kill one of the two people if I want so yes.

[Gateway]

Or tomorrow I can pop out two names, and we know one is mafia. If both are clearly townies you have me. I don't see how it can be fake

Do me a favor since I seem to be misunderstanding and just address these two points to point out what is a lie

. Night phase I get two names, one townie one scum.
. I can kill one, or neither.

[Gateway]

Wait I want to see who exactly says this role isn't in here. Also does the mod announce my role when I die?

It seems a fair role, there are roles where people know for a fact if a person is scum. Mine only gives me a 50-50 chance. All the same. I have no further argument to prove my point. All I can do is say try my idea for one night. I mean I have to give two names tomorrow right? If anything it will start discussion and we'll know right away if I am scum.

Basically lynching me on a hunch day 1, or wait and lynch me day two with a 100% facts if I don't supply two names that fit the towns satisfaction. Which is better?

[Gateway]

Panzer is right guys. There is no way in hell that role would be put into a game, unless the mod was a complete dick.

Now, you aren't a complete dick, are you mod? I don't think so.

Gateway, the whole role is a lie. It's completely implausible. Of course you can tell us its real name.

Okay, retired hitman.

And to answer your question I get the two names privately and in the morning I will pass them both out. I only ask you give me a single night to prove it. I will be under a lot of pressure the very beginning of day two no?

So to break it down again my plan is simple.
. Tonight get two names.
. Tomorrow report two names if I don't get NK

One of the two will be scum, so I'll tell you the names tomorrow and I will really be under the spotlight then right? Plus on day 2 I will have facts. I only ask you consider my facts, or readily explain what is wrong with those two bullet points?

[Gateway]

Plenty..He's played alot..I would quote the answer but it's in a diff game.

What, please tell me where you've seen me play.


To Az - Tell you what, since I seem to keep missing your questions, address them in bullet form and I'll answer right back. And remember you called the mod a dick if they actually inserted a role like mine

To Panzerjager - When I die everyone will know you are scum. I've never played with you in my life and you're claiming I've played plenty. I started this serious forum style weeks ago. Name my 'extensive' experiance.

Lastly remember I claimed the hitman role, if I get lynched remember those that pushed it.

[Gateway]

I see you just replaced Lordzoner in Mini 761. That is barely a day old so you can't claim to know me. Also that is my -first- game on these forums.

Unless Panzerjager comes up with a good excuse for their false claim, Panzerjager is scum.

[Gateway]

Also he could kill a townie and then name a townie and say he misunderstood his role so that's another benefit of faking that ridiculous role.

Or I could report both names like I said, or if I kill a townie on accident the person I report would have to be scum.

I know you are scum now Panzer as I said my plan on night one was to collect the two names as evidence and you chose to ignore that and try to point out I can kill. Hoping to get that hammer vote in.

When I die and it says I was a hitman, let it be known Panzerjager was the obvious give away as scum to me, as well as MafiaSSK. (and Az said the mod was a dick if my role existed )

And you also said I had extensive experience, and avoided me asking you to prove it al together. Has everyone ignored that, Panzer out right said they -know- I have plenty of experience personally. Is a lie like that not a give away of scum? Someone please answer since I thought that it was.

[Gateway]

Look at the metamorphosis here:

I've retired from the army here long before some of you were even born, and I still keep a few connections up high. By ten o'clock (night phase)

I get a list of two possible people one possible scum.

I can choose to pass that along in the morning... or ask my connections in the

police force to deal with the one I think is it

.

.Night Phase get list of two people one

possible

scum
.Choice to have one

dealt with

, or report in the morning the two names.

Night phase - Two names,

one scum

one townie.
(options)

Kill one

, report both to you all in the morning.

This is very much not right.

Regards,
Jazz

What metamorphosis, ever heard the thirty cents but one not a quarter?

I get two names, so we have a possible scum. I can't say one -is- scum, I just know one is 50-50 scum. Explain to me how did I claim my ability changed between the two posts Jazz?

[Gateway]

EBWOP: In case the issue was context, in the theme games I played in the past we had to try and stay in some character so the first one I played out like the retiree I was, using 'taking care of' because kill seemed wrong wording in the theme of the role I got. When it became obvious people only wanted exact mechanics and not to add any sort of theme to my posts, I cleared it up.

[Gateway]

An OMGUS townie? Read the previous 7 pages, I don't lash out at who votes for me. I only lash out at the questions. First you say you have extensive experience with me and the post your quoting is my first game on these boards and your first ever game with me. So less then three days of playing with me doesn't make experience.

Come now look people

3 days total experiance - Panzerjager says they know me a long time.
Tried to make me out as OMGUS hoping other wouldn't read the post.

These are give aways people, Panzer wants someone to hammer the last vote in. Really since only I can see it I'll make sure once against to point out Panzer. So someone pass along a vote from the grave for me when I die and it says I was a hitman (also remember Az called the mod a dick )

[Gateway]

Night phase - Two names,

one scum

one townie.
(options)

Kill one

, report both to you all in the morning.

Note: right there you imply one IS scum.

No lets do it this way. Harry, tom, and george play with me. At night I get two names, harry and tom. Come morning I say "HEY EVERYONE! The two names I got were Harry and Tom. No let's discuss, if my role is true one of them is scum."

What is wrong with that? Or can you twist that into a hammer vote somehow?

[Gateway]

@Gateway

-

Please answer me straightly. I believe your claim, but it is important that we all know the extent of your experience. Please answer in your own words, disregarding all prior discussion on this subject.

- What mafia experience do you have?

Please include all experience on mafiascum.net, as well as any other online site, or real life experience.

thank you.

Not so much that I skim, but as I said I am still on meds (not strongly now) so I don't like to retype things I feel I have answered. As I am loopy and people try to twist things repeatedly. Or I get asked by one person, answer it and then asked in a different wording by someone else.

My experience is some, I've played smaller games on another forum where I MUD and most make it to seven or eight pages.

And post 57 I have answered none stop. I already said I wasn't defending verbosity. I was saying why, in the post the question was referring to, at that moment in time, I made that vote.

So again, why did I vote for verb. At the time I didn't want to be silent so I sent out a vote where I thought it most likely. If Verb would have been a vote away I would have unvoted until I was more sure. I stated I think everyone is a townie on day one. That is smart thinking to me, sorry but I am sticking to it. You have to vote though so I put pressure where I think it best.

So to post 57 again (answering it in different ways to make sure I hit it this time.)

- I had to put pressure somewhere and I already demonstrated I will unvote one post later if that pressure threatens lynch. My style, deal with it until time and experience gives me another.

- Yes someone claimed I had been defending verb throughout the entire conversation (funny considering I was one of his first voters... repeatedly) and I said I wasn't... because I was voting on them. I was just answering why, at that moment, I had to unvote.

[Gateway]

I saw that this moment I've done my job. Since from my POV I can see better who's accusations are more baseless and who's are based on lies, make your lynch but know that Panzer has straight lied and I know it to be a lie and I have pointed it out.

And MafiaSSK has made it a point to try and be quiet, but I know them to be after me as well.

If you are unsure where to vote tomorrow, make a charity vote day two for me on
Panzerjager or MSSK

[Gateway]

Again remember. Hitman, and Az called the mod a dick

[Gateway]

It's only questionable in this situation. I'm not sure how much modding experiance you have but when designing/using roles you should also was think "What if a REALLY good player gets this role". Dude, commonly Un-NKable roles have been deemed broken(even in theme games)

You claimed you had seen me play plenty, a lie I have pointed out and you've offered no proof you were telling the truth.

Now you say I claimed to be unkillable during the night phase, where are you getting this stuff from?

Can someone besides Panzer respond to this post specifically and explain to me how I am not presenting my argument in a fitting manor.

. Panzer claims my experience, I prove it is a lie, no one cares.
. Panzer claims I said I could get NK, I never did, no one cares.

Am I the only one that sees Panzer trying to get a hammer from someone. Please someone just post to tell me how I am presenting that argument incorrectly.

[Gateway]

Oh and I forgot to Unvote, I have been suspicious of MafiaSSK.

They haven't seemed to speak up and help though, maybe just trying to hide, but I'll take my vote back until I know better.

Unvote

[Gateway]

There are flaws that have come to my mind in your logic Panzer. You say my role allows a one person townie army to destroy the scum right?

Well normally I wouldn't claim so I would have the two names to myself, not much I can do but use that to guide my voting or decision making at night.

To be this powerhouse you talk about I would have to claim, which means I get NK right?

Not only that I get two names, so I still don't even get a 100% detective, I get 50% detective.

Explain again how it is a powerhouse role, paying special attention these two points.

- Claiming gets me killed so I lose the "Hey town guess what I know" ability you claim I would have.

- Still no 100% on who the scum is, only a 50% chance.

I still say seek out the scum today and let the NK happen tonight, it will happen to me because the scum know I am telling the truth (I am not one of them), and will want to eliminate me bringing one of them into the light tomorrow.

[Gateway]

My plan:

- we let gateway live.
- tonight he uses his ability and chooses to kill someone
- if the someone he kills is town we lynch him tomorrow after he gives us the other name, if he then turns up town we lynch the other name the next day
- if the someone he kills is scum we let him live again, and repeat the process

a) if he is town the mafia will most likely kill him anyway, and if he doesn't get killed then we have a ridiculously overpowered role with us and will win the game shortly.
b) if he is scum the only way he gets to survive is if he gives us a scum per night, which is a damn good deal for us townies.
c) if he is scum and doesn't want to give up his scumbuddies then he will die shortly and we will have lynched a scum on day 2 which isn't bad.

That is a perfect plan, if the name happens to be one of the three I've thought are scummy I will make the kill. If it is a townie, by all means kill me.

If I get no name that has been suspect to me I will just report both in the morning and from the discussion that creates we will really know one of three people are scum at least (me and the two I mention)
Lastly the scum will probably nk me tonight since my role is a threat, which means one of you live.

Letting me live one night to attempt proof only helps the town day two doesn't it?

[Gateway]

I still say seek out the scum today and let the NK happen tonight, it will happen to me because the scum know I am telling the truth (I am not one of them), and will want to eliminate me bringing one of them into the light tomorrow.

1. What do you think the town should do if you survive to D2, given that you have not touched upon this?

2. Kindly address my question regarding molestargazer and Archon.

1.) The above post addresses this, we know 100% that one of three people (me and the two names) are scum and can start focusing on set facts D2

2.) My experience is as I said, minor on a MUD forum on the occasion we have a mafia game. We don't keep them going but you can see how short they are as I said at www.middle-earth.us and visit the discussion forum under games. I can't give away my name because that is an in character board, I don't talk with anyone outside of the game there and no one there knows who I am, it is how I stay in character.

@TheAdmiral:

Your strategy seems sound and in principle I think it's a good idea, but Gateway has contradicted himself on a few occasions and has been suspiciously evasive in revealing his ability. I don't like the way he's gunning for Panzer either.

Are you reading? Panzer claimed knowledge of my extensive experience and nothing, a straight lie. Then Panzer claims I said I couldn't be night killed; that came out of eastbumblefek, nowhere. Obviously Panzer is after me so I am gunning for the person I can personally see making lies up out of no where. Why are you ignoring the two claims I made against Panzer?

[Gateway]

I was writing my post as Verbosity posted, so in reply. I think I have no friends, my lack of ability to quickly make use of terms early in the game put me at a handy cap.

I truthfully feel the plan put together to have me go one night is perfect. Only scum should fear it, as right now the town can seek out another possible scum and tomorrow know for a fact who to lynch if I am wrong.

I have no excuse or way to hide D2 if I am scum, I see for a fact Panzer is trying to push it right now and I know they are scum. Even right now if I was lynched I'd be a small assistance in dropping Panzer. Still I think even the chance I offer and the promised lynch of dying on D2 is worth letting me survive a night.

And, what if your guilty eyes are wrong and I am a townie. If I do pick correctly and kill scum, the next day we are one less scum -and- I can announce who the other was so we know they are innocent.

[Gateway]

And why is everyone avoiding that Panzer straight lied about the experience claim and the claim I said I couldn't be nk'd. Am I not writing it in a manor others understand. Those give away he lied.

[Gateway]

I would throw my vote, but I have learned already. Panzer has been attacking with nothing and people ignore when I ask for proof. If I had voted Panzer, they would have claimed OMGUS and said it is scummy. People have ignored my suspicion and outing of Panzer's experience lie, so no one would pay attention I had suspected Panzer for quite a few posts now.

[Gateway]

Okay, speak layman's since I am lost what are my strawman arguments?

As for Molestargzaer and Archon. I stated in a previous post on day one nothing can be seen as proof. I am townie and I've seen people twist my words so they could just be falling for that effect or misreading. Only Panzer has clearly lied about something I know 100%

You said Panzer can't post because of threat from modkill. How about just saying experience? The games I am in have all started within a week or so, and all my first games. Panzer recently replaced a few days ago, so I am true in saying Panzer has known me for a couple days. Just say how you know I am experienced.
Because of this I have no real facts or solid opinions that could change except for Panzer.

Maybe you can help me, what way can Panzer prove they were making up lies from nothing without a modkill? Can't they say they've known me or watched me for months? Or say I've made hundreds of posts?

[Gateway]

Come on that is just stupid. I quoted the part that I was answering, as it answered several questions sent to me. I wasn't quoting your entire post because I was only answering that question at the time.

I've learned not to answer your questions on task because your just wait a few pages and post some twisting of words to keep momentum.

In case you missed it though I will be clear to you again.

Since we have syntax issues between my communication and yours...

. Bullet your questions.
. I will answer as long as
. You show at least an intelligent reply besides "Nope you're stupid and guilty!"

Right now you are showing third grade schoolyard momentum to me. That seems pretty scummy.

[Gateway]

busy right now, but I have a reply to this post. Give me a just a little bit to point out your obvious faults.

[Gateway]

Actually as I was about to nitpick your 'ten o'clock' theory and others. I see I have already given a reply and don't need to go lengthy. That was all while I thought I had to stay in character. So I was being vague, the -moment- I was told you aren't mod killed for giving the mechanics of the role I spit it out.

I mean for @# (you chosen curse) sake . Then all the what not after about me keeping out the cops and the like after was a crock as I had been told I don't need to be in character and I only spoke mechanics.

Or an even bigger sign to slap you with. I am sure I posted the site I played at before on this forum. It is a roleplaying mud, that should give away my goal before being told was to stay in character and not be mod-killed by stating mechanics.

I mean really, seeing that what is your argument. It is such a friggen stupid point, you are basically bringing up something dead hoping to get people that might not be following to jump on.

I challenge anyone to say I am wrong and that his post stands up.

[Gateway]

Yeah, well I thought you had common sense, my bad.

I will break it down for you, remember all the talk (there are a half dozen posts on it) about the plan of me going until tomorrow and naming the two?

So how can:
"If you choose to kill one, are you not allowed to tell us the other name? If so, what is the punishment for telling us?"
Not be answered by that.

Like I -already- said I cut out the part that wasn't being answered in my post. As it was a friggen common sense answer. You are being just shallow with your accusations.

Explain to me how I avoided your "If you choose to kill one, are you not allowed to tell us the other name? If so, what is the punishment for telling us?" question.

Yes I did not put up a pretty quote box or put your name, I thought average IQ would read me saying "I'll declare the two names tomorrow" as an answer to that question

[Gateway]

So at this point, Let me say that Az and Panzer -are- scum. My POV lets me see them as really baseless. Or in Panzer's situation a flat out liar that has shut up once I said to just prove it. I supplied several mod friendly phrases Panzer could use and they have just ignored it.

Tomorrow I would be seeking out Panzer and Az as serious scum. Mafiassk and sekinj are suspicious.

So even if I get lynched I am pointing out that Panz and Az have shown a general fear of the town strategy of seeing if I can make two names tomorrow. Hard to do if I am lying as I will be made for scum D2 for sure if I live.

If I am scum and lying, then you all have me D2. Why fear that, there are other targets here and if I can't supply my 'outrageous' claim tomorrow. Then you all have a safe lynch tomorrow right.


That is my reply, but this is a question I really want addressed by my accusers.
Please someone with a vote on me tell me what is wrong with saving a possible townie and weapon, with the worst possible turnout being a safe lynch tomorrow?

[Gateway]

The questions WAS NOT a common sense answer. I asked you whether, if you were to kill one of the names you were given, are you allowed to tell us the other name the next day. I then asked, if you werre not allowed, what the punishment was.

Learn to read.

We already answered that. Who's the moron.

I will break it down to retard, numnutz level for you though

The questions WAS NOT a common sense answer. I asked you whether, if you were to kill one of the names you were given, are you allowed to tell us the other name the next day.

All the posts about me living to day two and passing along the names because I am allowed didn't answer that for you? Really? Okay
YES I CAN PASS ALONG THE NAMES WITHOUT PUNISHMENT

I mean really. We had entire discussions about having me survive until day two to see if my roleclaim is fake. That wasn't an answer?

And onto the rest of your pathetically stupid question

I then asked, if you werre not allowed, what the punishment was.

Learn to read.

Ever right n/a on a form before? If I don't get in trouble, I can't answer what my punishment for when I get in trouble now can I.

Now please. I've done my best to break it down to a level your single digit I.Q. can understand. Explain how the question is -still- not answered for you.

Why are you so scared of my roleclaim, surely D2 is promised town if I am scum right? Only scum should fear it. So I stand behind you and Panzer being scum.

@ sejink - You made half hearted votes against me. Others are voting based on lies that they won't seem to read I've already proven wrong, you based yours on what seemed to be adding momentum. You're not scummy to me, but in my POV statement you are someone I am suspicious of.

I feel a person's POV is always important to know should they die, as I can obviously see who is coming at me with the most baseless accusation. If I get lynched and the role pops up as hitman, I want people to know Az and Panzer were the 100% scum after me. People should also know I was suspicious of you and MafiaSSK. Not so much now, but I feel an eye should be kept on you when we prove I am a hitman (either tomorrow morning, or today's lynch, I still ousted scum see?)

[Gateway]

To Jazz. Again that -morph- everyone is talking about is because I thought you were modkilled for breaking character and naming the specifics of your role. So I tried to explain them in theme.

And most importantly please read this.

You say I changed my claim. No I said I get two people, one possible scum.
The second time I said two names and one is scum. They are they exact same thing.

I meant that of -two- people -one- is scum.

Which means either of them are possibly scum.

I've noticed Az say I ignore questions, but is anyone paying attention to the answer.

1.) Do you really not see how I was in character up until the moment I was informed no modkill?
2.) Can you not see the two "different" claims are the same. Two names, one innocent one scum?

Can you show me you're not asking questions to accuse, but asking questions to learn by telling me what my answer is lacking?

[Gateway]

In case anyone forgot also...
Az said the mod is a dick if my role was to really exist.

[Gateway]

I think I might be the better one. Further discussion and aimless accusations are only going to claim confusion. As much as I dislike it, I'd rather someone hammered me and remembered I claimed the retired hitman role and if Panz and Az aren't working together. I am at least sure Panz is scum. They said something I personally knew is a lie and never defended when I called out the lie.

I know the town doesn't believe me now, but when I die and the truth comes out you will know I was telling the truth when I said Panz is straight lying about the meta knowledge.

I'd rather we stuck to the idea of me going to day two (the BS claim that I could make up two names and we lynch one is crap. I said I will produce two names and then you know one of three people is mafia me, or one of the two people) Although if Az or Panz's name comes up I will do the kill. Then D2 you all will see scum killed -plus- I will announce the innocent name.

[Gateway]

Actually please let's try the D2 plan. I really hope Panz pops up now and want to do the NK. I mean tomorrow I will have to answer before everyone on the night's actions yes. Then we have -facts- not some scummy twisting of words.

[Gateway]

Here is my best defense:
Tomorrow I have to supply two names right? Obviously it won't be Panz or Az as I would have used my kill on them. That means two people -beside- Panz or Az will know me for scum without the slightest doubt tomorrow. Them along with Panz and Az and 100% lynch for me tomorrow right?

I mean think of it, is there -any- way to squirm out of it now. Four people will vote me the first page of D2 is I am lying right? Az plus the two I mentioned if both are obviously townies.

When you break it down into numbers the D2 plan only gives the town power. The scenerio of me being scum promises 100% no townies die tomorrow since you'll know the lynch has to be me. It'll be a one page day.

[Gateway]

Sorry Jazz was writing the other post. It says I win as long as I am alive when we capture all the scum.

[Gateway]

Yeah... so that sort of makes me look anti-town. It is a shared victory through right? All the same a lynch that should happen after I've toasted a few scum and spread my nightly info to you all.

[Gateway]

ummm wait they do mean the same. I just took one subject and wrote two ways of saying it.

In all fairness explain to me.

1.) I get two names 2.) One is scum
or I get two names and either one is possibly scum?

I was more bullet the second (first time in this post) I explained it, but I assure you it is the same thing.

I will draw out a scenerio though.
"Me, tom, larry, and scott plus some others play... Night phase I get tom and scott. So from that information we know tom is possibly scum, scott is possibly scum"

or

"Me, tom, larry, and scott plus some others play... Night phase I get tom and scott.
One of these two is a scum and one is not"

Yes the wording -is- different, but the -meaning- is not.

I am trying here, is I really not clear now?

[Gateway]

I thought Archon Unvoted me?

[Gateway]

Thanks all the same Jazz. Tomorrow if I make it I will give two names. Then the town can readily decide from us three which is the mafia. It should be a lot simpler and fact based by then.

[Gateway]

Oh and I think I am at L-2 the mod still has Archon's vote on me.

[Gateway]

Sorry Sek but I don't fear a lynch now. I know for a fact it would be better for the town if I was not lynched, but people will reread my posts and see the truth in them when my death says I am a hitman. Maybe people will ignore how people are trying to twist my own words around to claim them evil, when really they are just lack of experience on things -anyone- can turn against you.

My death is actually going to bring attention on sekinj, MafiaSSK, and -surely- Panzer as well as Az.

[Gateway]

Gateway -i doubt panzer is scum. You don't know for sure either. It's the people in the background who are more dangerous. Ask yourself, if you flip hitman as you claim, then what would panzer fall back on tomorrow? That would be stupid scum play.

Well play pretend and not twist things for a moment.

Let's not argue that my role is real for a moment, it is a pretty neat role and we have to assume the scum have equally odd roles. Maybe Panz has nothing and they don't care about the loss. You guys kill me B they get me dead, a NK and I am gone. So two townies gone and one of our weapons gone. At worst the scum lose Panzer if they can't save him and he is probably scum with no ability.

That is my opinion of course. If you see a flaw I will discuss it if you point it out to me

[Gateway]

I am sticking to the scum because Panzer claimed we had extensive experience together, I am on my first three games ever on these forums so that is obviously a lie no?

That isn't a townie misunderstanding, that is a flat out lie. When I told everyone to look at my total posts and how newb I am, Panzer just shut up and a new person came in with a new accusation. And Panzer, who was so prompt to respond before, suddenly grows quiet at the exact same moment.

[Gateway]

Vote: Panzerjager

For all the reasons I have restated countless times.

[Gateway]

You find it ironic, I called you stupid? That means you read my post. You go and on and saying I am scummy for not answering your questions. How about answering some questions from the post you obviously read.

Or post something that proves why your vote is still there. I explained and proved the accusations wrong, you're refusing to acknowledge and showing a fear of the plan to let me survive until day two when we would know 100% That's scummy and you rate right below Panzer to me.

[Gateway]

Come on people, it is obvious the scum fear my role. They have to attempt a NK tonight (I am hoping a doctor is out there and watches out for me, just to see what I say day to) because if I make it until tomorrow and can prove my side, the scum will know they have an enemy.

Again, why lynch me on hunch today when you could be 100% sure tomorrow plus, get a small chance that the town gets a weapon?

[Gateway]

to = two obviously

[Gateway]

MafiaSSK - Can you please explain why your vote is still on me also?

[Gateway]

I've seen the logic. Tonight I will take credit for the kill I make and report the other name. From that we will be able to know a lot.

[Gateway]

No. I gave you a chance though. Where is this extensive experience I have?

You say me avoiding the questions are scummy, but you have been avoiding the very basis of your very first accusation against me.

So without going into some long accusation again in hopes we forget the question.

Where is this plenty of experience I have that you can talk about. I don't want to hear modkill excuses either. You can say plenty of games without naming a single game.

[Gateway]

Why would a townie quick hammer theirself? They Wouldn't.. Why would a scum? They wouldn't. Why would any role beside Jester? They wouldn't.

You're acting exetremely anti town and making me feel like you're A) jester or B) Scum and gateway is mafia hitman..

We already did a huge Jester bit in the early pages, you're not really going back to that are you?

And sekinj isn't trying to self-hammer in the way you put it, they are trying to jump in front of the bullet and sacrifice a normal vanilla to keep a helpful role around.

That is how I was reading their reply at least.

[Gateway]

Not defending or saying that is the truth, that is just a possible read we need to consider.

[Gateway]

I don't know what to believe there. I was pointing out something that obviously has something that can be read more then one way and presenting and argument that wasn't given.

I am suspicious because I've not seen your real reasons for your votes, but I still have no proof you are lying there. So since someone had put one way to read it, I was just playing DA and putting the other.

Also while I am not sure of you, I am sure of Panz so I am keeping my vote there so people know where I stand.

[Gateway]

how is it anti-town to try to give a TOWN power role a shot?

Well, when you're the only one in the entire game that is convinced that Gateway is not a liar, there has to be something up. Just to clarify, 1-10, how much to you believe Gateway's CLAIM? Just his claim. 10 being "spotless, without a doubt", 1 being "this is totally BS."

Only one? It was TheAdmiral and Verbosity that came up with the plan of believing my role for a night and judging me on D2. So sekinj isn't the only one.

I am tired of baseless facts, it is how Panzer (notice they still haven't proven me wrong, although they'll spat about a million other things) became obvious scum to me.

So don't throw someone in front of a train with your own. I think it would help if we asked questions and considered the answers instead of accusing people and trying to yell louder when they explain.

[Gateway]

Running through, but a quick reply to Mole.

- Meds were vicodins which I am not used to. Back to a normal prop. 215 now since I'm better, thanks.

"No. You claim you are 100% sure that ONE of them is scum. One dies, the over is 100% scum. The scum dies, the other is 100% town. "

- Remember both the TheAdmiral and Verbosity saying thier own wordings of my original plan to prove my role? Yes I am 100% sure that One of -the two- is scum. I don't know which. So I only have a 50% chance of finding scum. Yes I can kill and in the next day I'll know the truth, but the plan (originally many, many, posts ago) was for me to report the two.

Yes if I kill one we know, but I was trying to find a town friendly way to solve the issue of proving my role. It seemed a sensible at the time until Verb said otherwise.

"Verbosity wrote:
ThAdmiral's plan relies on Gateway actually killing, which I think he will dodge and say that he didn't find either scummy

This is also a good point. "

- Yes, but I've already agreed that I will kill one tonight, we've made that new change to the plan after Verbosity pointed out the importance in me doing a kill. If I don't kill one tonight feel free to lynch me first page D2. I'll even throw the first vote on to get it rolling.

"
Gateway wrote:
Then Panzer claims I said I couldn't be night killed; that came out of eastbumblefek, nowhere.

You have mentioned this a few times and it seems to have been ignored.
Could you please QUOTE and give the POST NUMBER of where Panzer has lied, state the lie, and explain why it is so. If it's true, I'll certainly pay it heed. "

- After I admit to a newbie mistake and someone agrees it seemed newbie Panzer tries to throw suspicion back on me with this.

Plenty..He's played alot..I would quote the answer but it's in a diff game.

Exactly, a game where I could be scum using a certain defense. Or maybe I was just fitting in with the post above me in that game, Panzer knows EXACTLY what I am talking about. This post alone probably just screwed me if anyone meta's in the other game, thanks for ruining that Panzer. It has been a basis of Panzer's original "he isn't a newb making a mistake" lynch mob. Panzer's whole idea is using meta as stupid as they've not seen me be exposed or finish one game, so how can they know which playstyle dictates which behavior? Panzer is scum using meta mumbo-jumbo to turn a vote.

Post 224 you'll find this nk nonsense. He opens with all this nonesense of a role being broken if it is can't nk it. Which has nothing to do with me. Then after building up momentum of people going against a bs unNK, threw some crap out with my name to focus the momentum.

But I never claimed that NK's can't touch me

[Gateway]

Sorry, didn't copy/paste the last part.

"As for Molestargzaer and Archon. I stated in a previous post on day one nothing can be seen as proof. I am townie and I've seen people twist my words so they could just be falling for that effect or misreading. Only Panzer has clearly lied about something I know 100%.
Wishy-washy. Take a look at our posts. Do you think one of us is more likey to be scum than another? Why? ?"

I can't say one way or the other, I have no facts to go after both of you. I was asked my opinions of you two since I had not shared them yet. Wasn't trying to say either of you are scum to me yet.

[Gateway]

Jazz voiced that I was thinking.

Unvote Vote: sekinj

[Gateway]

Look no further Archon

So here is the problem, man I am going to get slack. I -did- get Panzer and Spoilum's names, and I did choose Spoilum over Panzer. I remember the last think Sekinj posted that maybe Panzer and me just had a misunderstanding so I reread it. I see now why Panzer was so hard on the "plenty" and that exact wording issue. At the time I didn't really understand meta-gaming so it went over my head. All the same Sekinj said maybe Panzer was just being suspicious so I picked Spoilum. I figured Panzer was an easy lynch if I was wrong.

[Gateway]

We don't, that is why I said I might hang today but, who else did it though? Here's the math: you've got one mafia down so if it was a cop that did it let them say it now. Then you know I am mafia and can lynch me, leaving one mafia left probably right?

If no detective speaks up then we know finally my position is strong. BTW, Panzer kill was an obvious set up to make me look bad as I fought with them often.


heh and even if a detective speaks up and said they killed Spoil, when you lynch me at least you'll know I was telling the truth and take them out D3.

[Gateway]

Cops investigate, not kill. And how do we know, if it was you, that you aren't a SK. Death by sniping seems a little more SKish than anything. That said, you could be a vig.

Quick thing, SK?
And a sniping screams of hitman more then anything no?

[Gateway]

OH and sorry Panzer, you live across from Spoil and I needed a spot he wouldn't see me from when I shot him looking at his painting.

[Gateway]

I am voting Az as well.
1.) I said before I felt a lot of aggression from Az the moment my role was claimed.
2.) D2, I prove what I said, Az wants to keep throwing suspicion instead of helping find who else is scum.

Yes someone will say I am trying to push attention off of me, yes I am. Because it is useless, tonight I will clearly get two more names and if we have some clues it can make my job a lot easier no? So let's agree my claim was true, and start the next hunt.

Vote: Azhrei

[Gateway]

I think it would be hard for scum to give each other up. So I'll be happy to unvote if you tell me who amongst those that were posting confident about my role being false is scum?

We know very well scum would make some attempt at trying to making everyone disbelieve my role.
I get two names a night, no matter what if I don't kill scum at night, I'll give up the other name to lynch day two. I am a serious, serious threat to the scum.
So amongst those so sure I am a liar (Except Panzer as I got their name last night) Who's the scummiest?

[Gateway]

Actually that is a valid point... anyone care to share why we didn't have a night kill?

[Gateway]

What I am saying is, while that is a great concept to have in later rounds if we are both still alive and mafia quit dying, maybe someone acted. I was a numero uno target last night, maybe I was protected.


You are one day off, if tonight no mafia dies and the other name lynched tomorrow (D3) is a townie, I am insta lynch day 4. If it said mafia you'd instantly know Panzer is mafia as well and have another promised lynch.

So again, paying attention to me is a waste. There will be evidence that gives both me, and my allies away come D3 -if- I am lying.

Can you answer my question Archon? Of the people devoted against me being a liar (we know at least one was scum, they had to make that move) which one is scummiest to you. I am really interested in your answer as well as Az. I think it is a very important question for people to answer this round.

[Gateway]

Exactly, I was agreeing. I said -if- I don't turn up scum, and the other name is a townie as well. Wipe me out the moment I fail.

I may be accused of dodging questions, but unless something really new comes up I am going to be a bit less defensive. I proved my point, and we have a 100% plan to insta kill me the moment I don't turn up scum.

I still am sure at least one person trying to say my role was a lie on D1 is scum.
I know scum won't give up scum easily, so I want to see those that said my role was a lie, tell me who they think is scum out of the others that said I was a lie.

A valuable bit of discussion no? Can someone else help push this topic to the surface as well? I think it will settle a lot.

[Gateway]

Fair enough, and if I turn out to be what I said you lynch the other person the next day. We have a plan so... let's work on narrowing down the names so I have direction at night.

[Gateway]

Meaning of those so against my role (scum would fear it) who was the scummiest. I won't claim to be a great player that can pick up tells, but I know the answer is in that question.

[Gateway]

Mole I do have an answer for you, it will be given as soon as I get mod approval.

[Gateway]

Alright first to Panzer, I wasn't making an accusation, you are a solid townie in my book. I said if I turned out to be mafia yadda yadda in that other train of posts, then they would know I was lying. Rest assured it will never say I was mafia so we're sure you're townie.

To Molestargazer. Az makes sense, my first posts were a lot more nonsensical, even now I am sure they could improve. I am sure they will over the next couple of weeks. I am going to remove my vote for Az for now. I also agree throwing suspicion helps find scum, but we spent a good chunk of yesterday after me and I'd rather not go over the same arguments when I have done everything I have said, and we have a set plan in motion to take me out the moment I am proven a liar.

As for how I know about the broken-into car. I made the shot so I 'obviously' know where I made it from and what the victim was doing at the time no?

[Gateway]

Oh yeah.

Unvote

Still keeping suspicion there though.

[Gateway]

As for how I know about the broken-into car. I made the shot so I 'obviously' know where I made it from and what the victim was doing at the time no?

I thought your cop buddies took care of the killing. Why are you doing the shooting now?

Really Admiral, did we not go over this repeatedly?
I said that whole cop business -BEFORE- I was told you didn't get mod killed for going out of character.

Why would you bring up an issue that is -CLEARLY- closed?

I thought themed games meant in character, so I tried to explain my role IC, the moment I was told I didn't have to I went to the basics. THAT I WILL REPEAT AGAIN!

1.) I get two names, one is scum, and one is townie.
2.) I can kill one

Have you just completely ignored the -COUNTLESS- posts concerning this issue?

F.o.S.: ThAdmiral

This could be a pathetic attempt at making me a target once again. A scummy tactic since I've proven myself, and came up with a plan the moment I fail that still produces a town win.


So explain why you brought up an issue that is obviously you hoping people forgot the first couple of pages to create suspicion?

[Gateway]

Gateway, there is a distinct difference between "Settled" and "We're ignoring you because you haven't answered our questions and probably never will, and even if you do, the answers won't be answers."

Really.

I answered his question, I was pointing out it had already been clearly answered as the posts supply proof.
. In character.
. "No you don't have to be Gateway"
. "Oh, here is how it works then... forget the mention of cops and old contacts.

If there is an unanswered question Azhrei ask it.

[Gateway]

Seems fair.

Except if you kill me, and it doesn't say scum. The plan will be to insta lynch the next day whoever the other name was I gave.

So,

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

[Gateway]

Umm... I just took out another. I have one more night right to kill the last?

We have lost zero townies so far right?

It was either Chief or Jazzmyn and Chief, through out that odd number situation which seemed like he was trying to get people to think the plan he was distorting (by one day) was bad, had my thinking about it for a little while.

We have Panz and Jazz and Jazz as townies for sure and two mafia dead... why no go another day?

[Gateway]

Grrr, I quit using the quick reply to prevent this. My mistake.

So I killed Chief because he seemed like he was trying to distort facts to get me lynched.

Townies right now are Panzer and Jazzmyn.

[Gateway]

Umm... lynching Jazz is a bad idea. It will give away I am telling the truth, but it will kill a townie.

[Gateway]

Az makes perfect sense. If I don't get a mafia tonight take me out. We could end up winning this game tonight.

[Gateway]

It appears it said molestargazer because the pair were married yes? So of course Mole would have to be in the -themed- story. Come on Panzer, let's keep with the plan. I don't show up a scum tonight you pop me. What is what with that?

[Gateway]

I have not learned my lesson.

Let's stick with the plan. If I kill a townie tonight kill me tomorrow.

First jazz then me, you are being paranoid Panzer, we have a good plan so let's stick to it.

[Gateway]

I say give me another night. The moment I don't turn up scum lynch me.
Then make one of two choices.
If it says I am scum check out the innocents I claimed.
If it says I am the role I claim remember Jazz and Panzer are townies (even if misled)

[Gateway]

I think it is
2
7
5
6
7
.
4
5

[Gateway]

I think the first 7 should be an 8 Archon.

[Gateway]

Remember... if we don't lynch Gateway now, and he is mafia, we will lose.

Technically, should gateway be mafia, we are at a lylo. But, if he isn't, we aren't much worse off then we started.

The safest thing to do would be to vote Gateway.

Um Lylo, I read that and it would mean if you don't lynch the nightkill will put the mafia numbers to high.
I would like to point out that we have not lost a -single- townie yet.

I see no reason in lynching me, so you can what... find the other on your own. How about letting me off them, or letting me kill the first ever townie and then you can kill me, or choose maybe to kill the other name I offer.
Either choice leaves you with more mafia dead then townie at that point, which is a winning game yes?

Please explain your lylo logic Archon.

Until I get an explanation I am suspicious of you, I think you clearly fear my ability.

[Gateway]

I say if it is a comfort issue, we lynch me tomorrow.

The way I understand it we may get the last mafia tonight right?

So regardless lynch me tomorrow if.. well hell, if we don't win. I'm confident there is not 4 mafia + my role + whatever else there is. There has to be only three scum right?

[Gateway]

I am confident Jazz will be making a role claim tomorrow. I understood her posting and think we should see if I can end the game tonight. If not take me out tomorrow.

Vote: No Lynch

[Gateway]

I am willing to wait then. Until a,b, and c have been addressed.

Unvote

[Gateway]

@ jazz: so you picked correct scum both nights?
That sounds pretty impressive.

It does seem to go against gateway's claimed role that one of his two names would definitely be scum as you could just as easily been wrong.

@Gateway: could you please update your claim to include this new information about the monetary offers.

Good call Admiral, I did hold back some of my claim. People weren't believing the basics of my job, no way they would believe the more out of the wall parts.

So I don't know who I get the names from, I only know one is from a townie that can gives me scum and I am the killer for the scum until I die (don't give me that crap about saving myself, it's true, I die they use their own killer and no longer have to pay me)

It has been easy to make the decision because I was told there are benefits to working with the mafia. N1 I get a bid for 75 grand and Jazzmyn's odd number down to the cent. I assumed the 75 grand hit these last two nights were from mafia and the lower cost bids were from the town.

My win condition is to be alive with with at least $100 grand when the scum are dead (had to distort that because I would get more of the "yeah right" with all the disbelief before.)

So there is my total role. I've been taking the lower bid each time because it is townie. The town should keep me as I seem to be one part of Jazz's role, plus if I die the mafia gets their own killer.

I am still confident there are only three scum. I've proven my role two nights in a row, let me pop the third tonight.

[Gateway]

EBWOP: Jazz doesn't guess, Jazz makes a bid on the already confirmed scum. It has to beat the other bid for the town. So every night Jazz's bid is against scum.

Also should add, I win if the scum wipe out all the town as well. As long as I have my money and am alive with the winning team. So I am after my independent win, but why hate? I have chosen to get my win with the town so the town wins as well.

[Gateway]

Mod Notes:

On D1, I was worried that the main mechanic would be lynched. That would have really altered how the game would be played (essentially 8 townies v 3 scum with the scum possibly outting themselves).

Then Gateway essentially fakeclaimed a role (I think, he might have misunderstood his role) based off of his own.

Jazz.... You almost broke my game lol. After you targetted Chiefskye4, I went back to your role pm to make sure I didn't give you the names of the scum by mistake lol.

After Chiefskye4 and and Spolium were killed, MafiaSSK had to make a kill by himself without Gateway. And of unfortunately for him, I rolled a 2 out of a hundred which means he left behind some incriminating evidence (if I would have rolled higher than a 2, but lower than 11 more letters of his name would have been revealed). Fortunately for him, though, no one noticed it in the death scene. What was left behind was the letters M, A, F (the first three letters in mafiassk) in blood. If you go to look at it now, you will notice I accidentally deleted the post and had to replace it. I was expecting someone to mention it and Mafiassk to claim there is a framer role.

I understood my role, this was one of my first games and I ran in hectic (my most recent games you will see more thought and reasoning in the posts)
I knew I only got two offers and was going down, so I lied to the town and made up the rule on one is town and one is mafia.

Add to that, Mafia games are made with the scum having a kill available somehow right, so they had to have enough money to keep the offers going. I assumed the town would have far less and always took the weaker offer.

This was a great game and I feel it helped out my play greatly. Panzer you have a far stronger grasp of logic then I do. So if you could peek at my most current game and the manor of my posts, I would accept any criticism that helps me be more clear and structured. viewtopic.php?t=11252

[Gateway]

Add to that, why did I get no offer day two?
I assumed the scum wanted to make me look bad when I had no names (which is why I just made one up)

[Gateway]

Indeed an interesting game mechanic, and well done jazzmyn.
Also gateway for choosing to go with the town both nights.

and me? for getting Gateway past d1....

I know self-voting sticks in the craw of a lot of good townies, but I certainly feel justified in this game!

Going to remember this self-vote so I can quote how it really won this for us.