Mini 170 - Time Travel Mafia, Game Over!

[Fuldu]

With a five day deadline, I don't think we can afford to have the first two days be twiddling around with random votes that we're deliberately spreading out to people who don't have them yet. I'm not sure a bandwagon is actually going to be any more helpful, since there's no pressure on the bandwagoned individual until closer to the deadline, but let's try it, anyway.

vote: Mgm

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[Fuldu]

And, as long as we're clarifying things, no lynch occurs if the plurality is for no lynch. In some other games, non-votes are considered votes for no lynch. Is that the case here?

[Fuldu]

Well, one of the tradeoffs in reviving (through whatever means) anyone is that non-generic roles aren't going to be revealed. So, depending on what is and is not revealed, we may run the risk of reviving scum if we try to revive power roles. Per the generic townie role PM in the opening post, armlx was able to choose one night's protection. Presumably, since he died, it wasn't last night (although there's always the possibility of multiple attacks). Reviving him, then, increases his likelihood of surviving a later night-kill.

But the benefits of holding on to generic townies as verified innocents decreases with the amount of information we get about deceased non-generics. If there's no information, I think we should leave all dead non-generics dead, but that decision should wait until we actually have a dead non-generic and can gauge how much information we're going to get. And, obviously, that's just on the basis of public knowledge. If someone had private knowledge that, for example, verified a dead cop's identity, then they might consider attempting to revive him.

[Fuldu]

My point regarding armlx was that I think we should wait and see what information we get from power role deaths before we go ahead with reviving townies. I wouldn't want to be in a position where the importance of a power player was identifiable from the context, but we weren't in a position to revive them because we had revived townies. If there's really no information about non-townie deaths, then townies are the right choice for revival, but we don't know that yet, so I want to hold off on armlx.

[Fuldu]

I think that's a fair point, DarkLight. My vote is still on an initial random bandwagon, I don't have enough information to justify moving it, and I'd rather I did (or to justify deliberately leaving it where it is) before the day ends.

Mod: Deadline extension.

[Fuldu]

Well, unless we start putting our votes on no lynch, someone will die if mathcam refuses to extend the deadline regardless, and it's going to be pretty random regardless. I have nothing specific to pin on anyone, but I'd rather see a lynch than no lynch. Unvoting the random bandwagons doesn't actually solve anything, Nanook.

[Fuldu]

Asked and answered, Crola. No, we can't vote for dead people.

[Fuldu]

I disagree with the no votes on anything but the bandwagon policy. Assuming we put all our votes on one person today and then the mafia go back to last night and kill that person, the lynch will be decided by the votes cast by the dead. In this particular case that will be armlx, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. We might be able to convince him that he shouldn't cast a posthumous vote (or should cast it on our chosen lynch, which for all practical purposes is the same thing). The problem, of course, is that we have no idea whether he's actually done that until it's too late for us to change it (short of using time fuel). Furthermore, if things go well for us, we'll have dead players in the coming days who aren't going to be as accommodating. Letting dead scum choose the lynch by being the only ones still voting is a bad, bad plan.

And, just to check,

mathcam

: What would happen if a day ended (normally, or as a result of time manipulation) with no votes cast? If somebody's still lynched, and the rules aren't clear on this, then the whole discussion is moot.

[Fuldu]

Well, I've found Sapphire's comments to be the most incriminating. For one thing, she's claimed not to have a time machine and specifically pointed to her PM not saying anything. That seems both unnecessary and arguably a careless attempt to claim a useless role. Since we've all seen the townie PM and it clearly does state that they have a time machine, I think she's just babbling out whatever comes to mind. It's possible that there are powerful roles without any time travel capability, but that seems improbable given that even townies have a minor capability.

unvote: Mgm; vote: SapphireVerde

[Fuldu]

Oy! Read the rules. If you are, in fact, a backup doctor, the rules suggest that we won't necessarily discover that upon your death. And, if you're scum, we won't necessarily discover that upon your death. So this just looks like a vague reverse of a typical scum backup doctor claim. On the one hand, she's hoping we won't lynch her. But on the other, she's hoping that if we do, since we likely won't know whether she's nurse or scum we'll go back and bring her back to life. Well, let me say right now, I don't think the second should happen unless we get stronger evidence than her word that she's a backup doc. And since this looks increasingly like a scum claim to me, I'm increasingly happy with my vote. If we want to put all our votes in one basket, people need to start removing their votes from other places or make a strong argument that I should remove mine. But I've already said I don't have nearly as big a problem with votes in multiple places as some of you have expressed.

[Fuldu]

Indeed, only my being dead prevented me from berating the large number of players who were upset at the fast bandwagon. A fast bandwagon doesn't matter when a lynch is only supposed to occur at deadline.

[Fuldu]

I asked and was told that I could use the shield night one, but decided (correctly, as it turns out), that I was a decent bet for protection night one.