DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.

[whoami8]

why is Nuwen on AIM but not posting to clear this up. This is so assbackwards

[whoami8]

Yos I'm sorry but I think you're more likely scum than not. We are already behind the curve in regards to lynching and I'm not spending more time tunneling on you than playing. Furthermore if you are town I think you could be spending your time more fruitfully (though i do realize if you're town right now your primary goal is to avoid your own mislynch).

Bottom line Nuwen needs to get her ass in here and explain herself.

Meanwhile where the hell is Hogfather? Both of his heads are much more active than the hydra.

[Yosariwen]

why is Nuwen on AIM but not posting to clear this up. This is so assbackwards

I mentioned to her that you said that, and she responded:

mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.

[Nuwen]

Hi, I'm here. I caught up with Yos but desperately need to sleep a few hours before going into a midterm tonight at nine CST. I should be done around midnight and will be posting soon after.

[Apples and Banana]

Lurker vote, when, as pointed out, several other hydras hadn't posted either. Quite coincidental, in hindsight, that he happened to pick someone that flipped Scum, given how many people had yet to post.

Protip: Voting for a scum is not a scum tell.

There were 5 (iirc) players who had yet to post. You chose 1, supposedly out of thin air. It ended being Scum. You might have legitimately just happened to choose Scum, you might have decided to poke your scumbuddy into posting, you might have decided you might as well vote your buddy to distance. I pointed it out as a possibility, and that I consider it a slight scumtell. That might just be me, though, since I tend to get a ton of information from 'random' votes.

Explains why one was singled out, though it still remains that the person picked supposedly for the sake of picking someone flipped Scum. With Yos having an almost 'perfect' answer to Trotsky's question, its also very possible this line of questionning had been planned in advance.

Dude, I'm Yosarian. I've got a perfect answer for every question.

Seriously, anything I do, I know why I do it and can explain it in as much detail as is desired. It's silly of you to suggest that somehow me being able to explain why I do the things I do somehow is suspicious.

Right. I get that you can explain everything you do. But I thought it was fairly obvious that you just picked a name, but the combination of Trotsky flipping Scum and then he happened to ask you why you picked only one name. It just rubbed me as being an insincere back-and-forth with the two of you.

You say "it looks like scum can both day talk and submit a kill at any time." Shouldn't you

know

that to be the case, since you were Scum in Adel's previous Deep South game, Crackers! Mafia, where we were scumbuddies and could daytalk? Why would you think Adel would change the rules for this one, especially when Town won that game? And the part about not outing it in-thread is WIFOM.

Um, scum can apparently daytalk because it says they can in the scum role PMs posted in the mod's post. Putting the word "apparently" into sentances like that is basically a force of habit by this point, since if I didn't, you probably would have called THAT a scumtell.

As for your last sentance; you can't just wave the WIFOM wand to make arguments you don't like go away. If our actions don't make sense for a scum to do, then you can't call them scummy; that's what scummy means, is an action that scum is more likely to do then a town.

But the word "apparently," at least to me, shows that you might be trying to imply subtely that you don't know for sure, since you aren't Scum. You could have said "since the Scum can daytalk," without the word 'apparently', which serves no purpose but to show that you have some doubts.

And I

explained

why the play makes sense as Scum, because it would lead to the other anti-Town faction (if there is one) to have a higher chance of killing him. Therefore, saying Scum wouldn't do it

is

WIFOM, since it could be a scum move, or just a poorly thought-out Town move.

Comments on the lurker list, says he'll go back and look at the 4 hydras with only two posts, which still hasn't been done. Asks if there's a specific reason ZMD was voted for, out of the four lurkers, when he had chosen Trotsky 'for the sake of choosing someone to focus on' earlier in the game.

I think I made clear that I liked Ortohoops's play here. Asking for additional information can only help in a case like this.

I never said you didn't like the lurker list, or that I thought you didn't like it. I said you said you would go back and look at the 4 hydras with 2 posts, and you didn't do that yet.

I also don't see why the fact that Incamn was actually a trakcer has anything to do with whether calling out the crumb was a mistake or not. Whether Incamn flipped Town or Scum shouldn't change the validity of the play to call out the breadcrumb.

Wait...what?

If Incamn had been a scum who was trying to breadcrumb tracker early on so they could use that to their advantage later, then calling it out and putting the spotlight on Incamn early would have been an AWESOME pro-town play.

I disagree. If the play was right, it was right regardless of Incamn's alignment. If it was the wrong play, it was wrong regardless of Incamn's alignment.

If Nuwen thought it was Scum laying a fake crumb, then she should have said that, rather than claim she was just pointing out a crumb for the sake of pointing out a crumb. Besides, would it really be a terrible thing if Scum faked a claim of Trakcer, and had to come up with a string of increasingly difficult results as the game went on?

Its almost never a good idea to base lynches in Mafia off of math probabilities,

Why not? It's often a very good idea, especally if that's all you have to go on.

Really? You think its a good idea to lynch someone because they crumbed a Power Role, and there's a X% chance that a claimed Power is Scum, which is larger than the Y% chance that any random player is Scum? In that case, why shouldn't the Town mass-claim?

You can't possibly be claiming that Town is better of lynching claimed Power than lynching unclaimed people, are you?

That was her belief at the time, yes.

I find the thought process itself hard to believe, but even worse would be POSTING that.

Right, but you're still missing the point. Even though the act of crumbing iitself may be neutral (though I disagree on that note, which I'll explain in a second), pointing out every crumb you see is akin (though worse) to just asking for a mass-claim on Day 1, because in your view claimed Power is more likely to be Scum than a random person. And I still think crumbing is slightly pro-Town, since Scum that don't have a role will force themselves to lock into a claim very early if they want to crumb, which may backfire or become irrelevant if the set-up then stops that claim from being passable.

Only if the crumb is noticed. If a scum can plant a crumb early on and no one notices it, then the scum can use that crumb to set up a fake claim later in the game; or can choose to not do so, if it's to their advantage. Which is another advantage to pointing out a crumb, especally if it's a crumb that seems like one a pro-town person wouldn't really want to make.

But pointing out any crumb you see is, as I said, akin to going ahead with a mass-claim. It outs Power Roles, with the intent being trying to bust Scum with bad claims.

Really; why would a pro-town tracker feel the need to crumb at the very part of day 1? I still don't get that, personally; considering it's a semi-open game, the odds of a tracker claiming tracker and not being believed seems very small to me.

Why would Scum possibly want to set up a Trakcer claim, of all roles, one of the harder ones to successfully pull off?

Again, I wouldn't have pointed it out, because I'm especally paranoid about outing power roles and outing roles in general in basically any setup. Nuwen thought she had pro-town reasons for doing so, though, and there really is no reason for a scum to do that.

I still don't see the logic in lynching claimed Power, much less the logic in announcing that in-thread.

Your SK speculation dosn't make sense either, since a SK could just as easily daykill as the a mafia member could; trying to direct the kill of the other scum group in thread, on day 1, just seems like it would be an absurdly suicidal gambit to me, for very little real benifit.

What gambit? Is your stance not that there's nothing scummy or wrong with what she did? If so, how would that be an SK gambit?

[Yosarian2]

Your SK speculation dosn't make sense either, since a SK could just as easily daykill as the a mafia member could; trying to direct the kill of the other scum group in thread, on day 1, just seems like it would be an absurdly suicidal gambit to me, for very little real benifit.

What gambit? Is your stance not that there's nothing scummy or wrong with what she did? If so, how would that be an SK gambit?

Eh? Your theory seemed to be that, unlikely as it is, that we were a SK who was trying to get the mafia to kill Incamn for us by trying to direct the mafia's kill in broad daylight. That would be an absurdly risky gambit to make, since the odds of being caught would be quite high, and the payoff would be nil, since the SK would be able to just make the kill himself.

Anyway, I never said "there was nothing wrong with what she did"; I persoanlly think it was a mistake. However, it would have been a much bigger mistake for her to do it as scum, and I think that's fairly obvious if you think about it for a bit.

Also, it's kind of funny that for the first half of your post, you're triyng to imply I'm scum with Trotsky; then in the second half of your post, you're trying to imply that I'm a SK who killed Trotsky (since the SK is a compulsive killer who must kill every day, if there is a SK then one would assume that SK would be the killer of Trostsky).

[Saunt Adelaus]

mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.

someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.

[Yosariwen]

mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.

someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.

So, which one of you is scum trying to get me modkilled here? Fess up.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 207:

Yosariwen:

5

:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light, Apples and Banana
Frog Dodging:

1

:Raging Wishbone,
Raging Wishbone:

1

:Zmd
Apples and Banana:

1

:Zaphod Beeblebrox,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:

1

:PoketheAlpaca,

not voting:

3

:Death the Hogfather, J-Scope, Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch

[whoami8]

mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.

someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.

So, which one of you is scum trying to get me modkilled here? Fess up.

That would be A&B

[Ortohoops]

Yos if you're town I really feel for you. Your hydra partner put you in a bad spot due to, what I agree with you, is a bad theory position. But you have to see it from an outside observers perspective. We can't let something like this slide. It's too glaring to just say "well it doesn't make sense as scum...look a birdie!" There's a very decent chance that scum would make that play.

I appreciate your further attempts at scum hunting, but you need to go.

And while you may be right in general about "too much knowledge", anyone in their right mind would not take incamn's death as that from a vig. It's patently ridiculous, and feels like you trying to point out a shiny object to distract us. Your A&B analysis does give me some town vibes but overall it's not enough. We're already behind schedule. We got lucky with the vig/crosskill but we can't continue to count on those types of events. A lynch needs to happen at least once every three days and you are easily the scummiest player ATM. If you're town go down with a bang and leave what info you can for us to work with.

Yos I'm sorry but I think you're more likely scum than not. We are already behind the curve in regards to lynching and I'm not spending more time tunneling on you than playing. Furthermore if you are town I think you could be spending your time more fruitfully (though i do realize if you're town right now your primary goal is to avoid your own mislynch).

Bottom line Nuwen needs to get her ass in here and explain herself.

Meanwhile where the hell is Hogfather? Both of his heads are much more active than the hydra.

Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.

[whoami8]

Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.

I agree, my gut is just giving me second thought.

Anyway Yoswen, if you're town please scumhunt in your remaining hours.

[Raging Wishbone]

Seven of us here played in that game (me, her, Rofl, Tajo, Nuwen, DGB, and Seraphim). I do not think Hoopla meant she wanted to lynch Townies, I was trying to make a point that this is what happened during the course of that game with the lynch all lurkers

But do you think that strategy is less reliable in this game? Do you find it odd that from her experience in that other game she should realize this too?

That's a good question, but I get nothing but town vibes from the Hoopla team... and this game quite frankly is going much better because it seems the one thing MOST of us agree on is that we need to move quick...

Paraphrasing the rest of the posts today; I think the sexed v yo/nuw argument sound like two townies... although Frog Dodge made an excellent point elaborating on a few other posts that it did seem like Yoso lied and completely contradicted Nuwens post about them not talking...

My partner wants his vote on Froggy right now, so I'm leaving it there, but we talked earlier and he said he would be able to post soonish... so if he wants to take Yoso to L1... I trust my honey Bunnies judgement.

I ain't got many good scum reads right now, I have town reads...

Jscope
Hoops
PokeaTaj

I kinda think...

yousonew
sexwithashaft

...and probably frogdoger may be townies. In fact without my partner around I would unvote frogdodge if he was in danger of being lynched... Yoso I am just not so sure about, I also dont like that she is posting elsewhere as someone else pointed out but not here?

Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.

[Yosariwen]

Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related

Now, that seems completly untrue to me. What valid argument was there made against me that wasn't entirely based on that one post of Nuwen's?

[whoami8]

What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?

[whoami8]

Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related

Now, that seems completly untrue to me. What valid argument was there made against me that wasn't entirely based on that one post of Nuwen's?

the explanations after the post

[Death the Hogfather]

Finally done with all my school crap. Reading now. Posting soon.

Still no idea why Seraphim isn't posting. He's been around other places, but not here. Meh, whatever.

[Yosariwen]

Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related

Now, that seems completly untrue to me. What valid argument was there made against me that wasn't entirely based on that one post of Nuwen's?

the explanations after the post

First of all, ppfffftttt.

Second of all, he claimed there was some kind of case against me that was not "crumb related"; Nuwen explaining why she thought revealing the crumb was a good idea at the time is clearly crumb related.

[Raging Wishbone]

What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?

Tajo is being Tajo, imo... I dont Poker at all, but I cn tell the difference between each of there post. He is so methodical, calculated...he turns it on when he needs to and always provides a threw and threw analysis. He does not try to get just anyone hung, its like (no pun intnded) he is playing poker, he keeps his cards close to the table so no one can see. I have never played with him as scum, but as town...he is exactly the same.

[Raging Wishbone]

What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?

Tajo is being Tajo, imo... I dont Poker at all, but I cn tell the difference between each of there post. He is so methodical, calculated...he turns it on when he needs to and always provides a threw and threw analysis. He does not try to get just anyone hung, its like (no pun intnded) he is playing poker, he keeps his cards close to the table so no one can see. I have never played with him as scum, but as town...he is exactly the same.

oh and by the by, dont get me wrong; he aint obv town, I will lynch him quicker then you all can type wifom, if he gets scummy, lol.

[Yosariwen]

I actually...I donno, I don't have a pro-town read on Poker-Tajo here. They havn't really scumhunted yet at all; I don't really have any idea who either of them suspect at this point, and we're already in day 2 here.

[whoami8]

So who's your guess for remaining scum Yos?

[whoami8]

What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?

Tajo is being Tajo, imo... I dont Poker at all, but I cn tell the difference between each of there post. He is so methodical, calculated...he turns it on when he needs to and always provides a threw and threw analysis. He does not try to get just anyone hung, its like (no pun intnded) he is playing poker, he keeps his cards close to the table so no one can see. I have never played with him as scum, but as town...he is exactly the same.

oh and by the by, dont get me wrong; he aint obv town, I will lynch him quicker then you all can type wifom, if he gets scummy, lol.

so why did you put him in the town category? Futhermore why is J-Scope there?

[SensFan]

Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.

I didn't try to get anyone modkilled, and xofelf hasn't been online.

[Raging Wishbone]

Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.

I didn't try to get anyone modkilled, and xofelf hasn't been online.

Sex with shafteds wife said this....

mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.

someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.

So, which one of you is scum trying to get me modkilled here? Fess up.

That would be A&B

SexEd: where did you get your information?