DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.

[whoami8]

Personally I think ortohoops is town just wanting us to move more quickly.

[Yosariwen]

Yos, I need more info about this:

She had come to the conclusion, before the game started actually, that the right move in this kind of game is to lynch anyone who claims a role or who even hints at a role, becuase a high percentage of people who have roles are scum, and there's of course also a chance that somone who claims or hints at a role is lying about it and also scum. She apparently discussed this with Adel some time ago. So she was not at all reluctent to out someone who seemed to be breadcrumbing a role right from the very start of a game, when there's really no good reason for a pro-town tracker to do so.

I don't understand how anyone could think this is a lynchng claimed power roles is a pro-town strategy.

I don't think any of the working premises are true... like I don't think "a high percentage of people who have [power] roles are scum"

She can probably explain her logic better when she shows up, but I'll give it a shot.

This was what she said earlier in the thread:

Yes and no. I pointed out Incamn's breadcrumbs because power role identification in this game has a very high reward versus risk. There are 3 scum among 14 players (~79% chance of mislynch with vig, ~70% chance of mislynch with sk). However, there are 3 possible scum power roles to 5 possible town (no greater than 40% chance of mislynching, if all five are in the game and at least 2 scum power roles exists. If less than five town power roles, chance of hitting scum by outing power roles increases).

The theory she came up with before the game started was that lynching a claimed power role is more likely to hit scum then a random lynch, even if the power role is telling the truth about being a power role; and of course they might just be lying scum.

When I discussed this with her in chat later, I pointed out all the flaws in this logic; the big one, of course, being that a 60% chance of lynching a pro-town power role is just incredibly unacceptable, and she agreed with me and no longer supports that theory. However, that was her logic at the time.

[whoami8]

But how is she even coming up with those numbers when we don't know how many power roles are in the game on either side? Can't there be like 5 towntrackers or something and no mafia power roles (well, we know they had a RB at least). But, don't you have to know the balance for that to work? Because the list of possible roles is just that: possible. Adel could do a lot of crazy shit inside of that.

[Yosariwen]

But how is she even coming up with those numbers when we don't know how many power roles are in the game on either side? Can't there be like 5 towntrackers or something and no mafia power roles (well, we know they had a RB at least). But, don't you have to know the balance for that to work? Because the list of possible roles is just that: possible. Adel could do a lot of crazy shit inside of that.

I agree completly.

You also want to remember, Nuwen is kind of a newbe here. She only has 2 completed games; heck, she couldn't even play as an IC yet. She was awesome in WIH, of course, and clearly has a lot of natural talent, but she hasn't seen nearly as many games as we have.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 278:

Yosariwen:

5

:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:

2

:PoketheAlpaca,Raging Wishbone
Raging Wishbone:

1

:Zmd
Ortohoops:

1

:J-Scope,
Zmd:

1

:Death the Hogfather,
Apples and Banana:

1

:Zaphod Beeblebrox

not voting:

1

:Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch

edit: I had Zaphod Beeblebrox voting for sex w/ shafteds wife club instead of Apples and Banana.

[Raging Wishbone]

mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.

someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.

Can anyone help me out with this post please? Was this the first time the name "mercuriala" was posted in this thread?

I am really thinking yoso is a bad lynch... Whoever wants to hammer, please read the last four pages (tonights posts) carefully... and give it just a tad of time. My partner said he would probably be around tomorrow afternoon and I know RR will cut through those pages like butter melts on warm bread...

I am NOT stalling, a few hours wont hurt... I just really think there was something important in the last four pages and it would be prudent for everyone to consider before hammering yo/nuwen!

[Raging Wishbone]

Votecount as of post 278:

Yosariwen:

5

:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light, Apples and Banana,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:

3

:PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Raging Wishbone
Raging Wishbone:

1

:Zmd
Ortohoops:

1

:J-Scope,
Zmd:

1

:Death the Hogfather,

not voting:

1

:Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch

Gah I suck at reading... I missed zaphs vote post on sex ed? I also thought I read zmd voted for hoopla, and I thought Death the hog changed votes?

[Raging Wishbone]

Aha I see what happened, the alts are confussing things... Here is the last post I see from DGB/plum or Zaphord Beeblebrox?

Unvote; Vote: Apples and Banana

*Plum*

If she voted for SexEd... I can't find it?

[Nuwen]

Two insufflated tabs of No-Doze later, Nuwen lives.

as there are multiple

data

roles than can be of either alignment and would benefit from early crumbs. Currently a null tell.

That's what I took this to mean

This means any role that can provide information, whether through an information-gathering role (cop, tracker) or a role that gains information from successful actions (roleblocker, doctor). Any power role in this game's setup, basically. Yos was also confused by this; I had to explain what I meant earlier today via AIM.

However, the assumption that I meant "data-gathering role" has led to some pretty radical theories:

I ask you again what kind of townie points out a freaking tracker breadcrumb because it's a nulltell? There's even less motivation for that.

I never pointed out a tracker crumb. I pointed out a crumb from any number of power roles; I had no idea Incamn was a tracker, and had no way of acquiring that information as a few people seem to by implying.

If, for example, they were a scum power role trying to get another scum to send in the kill because they wanted to use their power role instead, it would have been a good play.

Why wouldn't this be communicated via a QT or some other form of daytalk? We've already established that scum have been able to daytalk from the game's inception.

Also, where are there restrictions on both killing and using an action simultaneously? I don't see any in Adel's role list. In fact, I see one that says he opposite:

ou are a Roleblocker in the _____ Mafia. ________ are also members of your mafia.

While you are alive, you can talk with the other living members of your mafia via the quicktopic thread found at________.

Once every action phase a single member of your mafia can PM me the name of a player to kill, and which member of your mafia is committing your kill. If I receive more than one PM for the kill during an action phase from your mafia, only the first one sent will count. Other roles might interfere with your killing ability; you will not be notified if this happens.

As an additional ability, once every action phase you may PM me the name of a player. That player’s action will not occur during the next action phase. If I do not receive a PM before end of an action phase you will not block any player. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. You will not be informed if your action is blocked.

You may perform both your mafia's kill as well as roleblock in the same action phase.

You win if only members of your mafia are alive at the end of the game.

Is there something about both killing and performing another action that you know about first-hand? If not, it really seems like you're throwing out any possible theory to add credence to your suspicions without considering whether or not they're possible within the constraints of game mechanics.


----------------------------

Actually, that was Nuwen, and I'm not sure why she did. I rather wish she hadn't, considering; I feel that it was a mistake.

Mmhm, but I wanted to run the idea by my hydra partner prior. We came to the consensus that although the chance of a mislynch is lower, the cost to town is far higher. But that rough probability is a good item to keep in mind when approaching any future claims.

These two don’t add up. How can they both be true?

Timestamp of my original "whoa, crumbs" post: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:45 pm (CST)

Conversation with Yos: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:52:11 PM (CST)

8:52:11 PM Mercuriala: guh, this sounds like a ringing endorsement for a power role witch hunt, which -seems- like a sub-optimal way to catch scum. But the numbers!
8:52:34 PM ArtherDent: Heh. I'm glad you have a good justification lined up
8:53:41 PM Mercuriala: I tend to have reasons for everything. I probably should have explained myself prior, whoops.
8:53:54 PM ArtherDent: Eh, 's all right.
8:54:47 PM ArtherDent: One suggestion...you may want to sign that post
8:55:11 PM ArtherDent: I'm sure most of them will figure out it's coming from you and not me, but still, we don't need this getting any more confused then it already is, hah
8:55:20 PM Mercuriala: Indeed.
8:56:07 PM Mercuriala: A skimmer like Jdodge might very well latch onto "two conflicting posts OMGOMGOMG" for three plus pages.
8:56:22 PM ArtherDent: Yeah
8:57:08 PM Mercuriala: I am also changing Yosariwen's phpbb style. Do you have any sepia allergies?
8:57:17 PM ArtherDent: Heh. Not to my knowlege
8:59:43 PM Mercuriala: Deep south tends to reward lynching every claimed player.
9:00:00 PM Mercuriala: Just based on the higher 50-50 distribution of open power roles.
9:00:17 PM ArtherDent: Eh; I disagree
9:00:40 PM ArtherDent: Lynching a power role, especally an information role, costs the town so much more then lynching a vanillia does
9:00:59 PM Mercuriala: Yeah, the cost of a mislynch is far higher.
9:01:06 PM Mercuriala: But the chance of it is much lower.
9:01:31 PM ArtherDent: Eh...well, except that if someone is a power role, you can also get infromation from how they use their power role
9:01:42 PM ArtherDent: Not to mention, if they have an info role, you get even more information
9:02:33 PM ArtherDent: Actually, I would tend to lean to the other extreme; in a mafia game like this, the goal of the town is often to get enough information so they can quicklynch everyone who DOSN'T have a confirmable claim or some role-based way of confirming them as town
9:02:46 PM Mercuriala: Consider also the mexican standoff of claims that can happen in a deep south lylo; there are only so many claim/alignment combinations that can explain how actions resolved.
9:03:11 PM Mercuriala: Which is a great place for town to be in.
9:03:24 PM ArtherDent: Very true
9:04:23 PM ArtherDent: Also; let's say you lynch all power roles, town and scum. In that case, you kind of make it into a mountanous game; and town has historically had a very, very bad record in mountanous games
9:05:17 PM Mercuriala: Also true.

At the time of answering J-scope's question on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:54 pm (CST), I already had the above conversation with my partner and decided that maybe my systematic number-crunching wouldn't be as big a help in this game as it was in WIHII.

hitting a power role at random is more likely to hit scum than hitting any play at random.

Did you have this feeling back then?

Mmhm, but I wanted to run the idea by my hydra partner prior. We came to the consensus that although the chance of a mislynch is lower, the cost to town is far higher. But that rough probability is a good item to keep in mind when approaching any future claims.

Pointing out Incamn's crumbs was a bad move in retrospect, yeah, and I apologize - but I didn't see any reason why the act of crumbing was anything but neutral.

When I posted on Sunday (CST), I definitely thought outing any crumbing role was an optimal protown play - based on the numbers I ran, there was more likelihood of a random power role flipping scum than any other random player. This does

not

mean I wanted to follow up my probability predictions with a test lynch - that's an irresponsible way to play town, especially with other reads at our disposal. I did want to make it clear that 1) Camn was a power role of some kind and 2) There is no reason to assume that power role crumbs are pro-town in the slightest.

That subject brings me to my next point,

And I still think crumbing is slightly pro-Town, since Scum that don't have a role will force themselves to lock into a claim very early if they want to crumb, which may backfire or become irrelevant if the set-up then stops that claim from being passable.

You've got to be kidding - half of the town's power roles have a scum counterpart. You don't think it would be optimal play for a scum roleblocker or doctor to crumb early in an attempt to out-town any potential counterclaims? There's no reason to set up a fake claim when two out of four scum roles (mafia doc, mafia roleblocker) already have built-in safe claims, complete with role-complementary actions. I've already pointed out that Camn had no reason to set up a tracker crumb without receiving any results (which I assume she had yet to get, as her crumb was planted 18 minutes into the game).

Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

And what would the rest of that case consist of? Thus far, all I've seen is a case bred entirely from my decision to declare crumbing as a neutral tell (remember, it's advantageous for at least two scum roles to crumb their actions in a pro-town manner) and the ensuing perception of inconsistencies between my play and Yos'. I've clarified that these inconsistencies are, in fact, not inconsistent with the times Yos and I put our heads together after my original post on Sunday. Where's the rest of your material?

Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related

This is a terrible burden of proficiency - my half of the hydra has very little meta to speak of, and definitely no tangible standard of play. I've completed two games on this site. You can take a look at them if it tickles your elmo: Newbie 723 and War in Heaven II (with Quick Topic). I'm not claiming to be incompetent, but I certainly make mistakes that seem dense to players with more game experience.

Raging Wishbone's recent posts have given my head a bit of a spin, especially when combined with his and Tajo's vote change:

Unvote Vote : Sex with shafted.

This is a good wagon.

attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted

Attempt not to answer my question noted!

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED

Where did this come from? At Raging Wishbone in particular, why do you believe that Shaftsex's online/offline deduction about the modkill question is more likely to come from scum than town?

So is Raging Wishbone trying to kill his buddy Yosiwen to distance from them?

Again, this follows a trend of outlandish but convenient theories from ShaftedSex - why would Raging Wishbone attempt to bus via modkill while there is a wagon on Yosariwen, especially after insisting that a Yos/Nuwen lynch "will be a BAD lynch imo" (236).

You adressed it in your (isolation) post 11. I do not think said explanation is valid in the least, because it does not explain why the second quote from J-Scope mentions that you came to a consensus BEFORE going for it, while the first specifically mentions that you hadn't.

And now this bit shows that said discussion took place, because a consensus was reached, which is directly in contradiction to your claim that you had not spoken with Nuwen prior to the crumb-outting in question. This seems very simple to me. How is this misrep? It's your own words.

Inaccurate. I responded to Jscope's question "Did you have this feeling ("hitting a power role at random is more likely to hit scum than hitting any play at random")

back then

", assuming "back then" refers to when I originally posted on Sunday. Yes, I did think my theory was sound until I talked to Yos later that evening. You're either misrepresenting what Yos said or are misunderstanding the timeline - which is it?

Why did SexwithEd claim it was Apples and Bananas? They claim it was because they were the only person online... That is a flat out lie! I was here and saw tons of people on line (in fact I was wondering if they were lurking scum)..

Could you share that list of online players? I'm interested in anyone who is currently actively lurking.

Zmd - you're one of these players

What updates do you have to your first scumlist, if any? Who is most likely to be scum right now? Who is his/her most likely partner?

Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

[Raging Wishbone]

attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted

Attempt not to answer my question noted!

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED

Where did this come from? At Raging Wishbone in particular, why do you believe that Shaftsex's online/offline deduction about the modkill question is more likely to come from scum than town?

Read much? Because she blamed Apple and Banana for it. It bothered me, and I am leaving my vote where it is.

Why did SexwithEd claim it was Apples and Bananas? They claim it was because they were the only person online... That is a flat out lie! I was here and saw tons of people on line (in fact I was wondering if they were lurking scum)..

Could you share that list of online players? I'm interested in anyone who is currently actively lurking.

Read much? I have posted the list of players TWICE? Why ask for it when it has been posted?

Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

[Apples and Banana]

Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

What the fuck are you talking about?

I mean, I still support a Yosariwen lynch, but this is ridiculous.

*Nuwen has had her AIM listed in her profile (and so under every one of her posts) for quite some time
*Nuwen talks to her hydra partner, Yos, over AIM
*Yos (presumably) told her sex w/ shafted was claiming she was active lurking
*Nuwen explained in that snippet that Yos posted
*Yos then (presumably) asked Nuwen if he could just copy-paste that directly into the thread

What the hell is so hard to understand?

[Raging Wishbone]

Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

What the fuck are you talking about?

I mean, I still support a Yosariwen lynch, but this is ridiculous.

*Nuwen has had her AIM listed in her profile (and so under every one of her posts) for quite some time
*Nuwen talks to her hydra partner, Yos, over AIM
*Yos (presumably) told her sex w/ shafted was claiming she was active lurking
*Nuwen explained in that snippet that Yos posted
*Yos then (presumably) asked Nuwen if he could just copy-paste that directly into the thread

What the hell is so hard to understand?

Town have no reason to lie, scum do! Even little things like this... so she should be lynched why? What the fuck you talking about?

[Raging Wishbone]

meh, I have been thinking.. I guess you all are right and I am wrong A & B, SexEd, my humble apologies... I give, she can go to L1...

UNVOTE: Vote YosNuwen!

I guess we all get credit for the hammer now.

[Raging Wishbone]

hmmm... on third thought I am not going to be bullied by A&B, Sexed (...and putting someone at L1) into voting for someone I have a doubt on.... If my partners want to vote for them, I'm with him.

UNVOTE

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 278:

Yosariwen:

5

:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light, Apples and Banana,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:

3

:PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Raging Wishbone
Raging Wishbone:

1

:Zmd
Ortohoops:

1

:J-Scope,
Zmd:

1

:Death the Hogfather,

not voting:

1

:Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch

Gah I suck at reading... I missed zaphs vote post on sex ed? I also thought I read zmd voted for hoopla, and I thought Death the hog changed votes?

thanks for pointing out my error. ZB's vote was on A&B. I fixed the votecount on this page. Note that I am only counting votes cast by the actual hydra accounts.

I occasionally make mistakes in votecounts, and I depend upon players pointing them out.

Thanks for the help!

[Raging Wishbone]

Votecount as of post 278:

Yosariwen:

5

:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light, Apples and Banana,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:

3

:PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Raging Wishbone
Raging Wishbone:

1

:Zmd
Ortohoops:

1

:J-Scope,
Zmd:

1

:Death the Hogfather,

not voting:

1

:Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch

Gah I suck at reading... I missed zaphs vote post on sex ed? I also thought I read zmd voted for hoopla, and I thought Death the hog changed votes?

thanks for pointing out my error. ZB's vote was on A&B. I fixed the votecount on this page. Note that I am only counting votes cast by the actual hydra accounts.

I occasionally make mistakes in votecounts, and I depend upon players pointing them out.

Thanks for the help!

Thanks so much for looking at that, I was not reading careful enough but I thought a few things looked odd, lol. I was kinda getting "WISHY-washy" and to be hinest panicing a bit about my vote/unvotes.... I see Death the Hog did not put Yoso/nuwen at l1 (because they did not unvote). Thats my last post, my partner can take it from here....

...and for the record you RAWK Santa Claus, this is a great game. Thx. :)Thanks.

[Saunt Adelaus]

3. Each player can vote for exactly one other player at a time during the day. Make your choice in bold letters like Vote: YYYYYY.

4. To change your vote, post Unvote in bold letters, or make a post voting for someone else in accordance with 3.

"Unvotes" are not required for a new vote to be valid.

[Hoopla]

BTW Hoops confirm or deny that you asked the mod about Yos' post.

That wasn't me. I don't like the way you're blinding shovelling out suspicion to anyone you think may have been online. I think most of the players don't make their online status visible.

Wow, that's actually a good catch. I want to hear what team Yosariwen has to say about it

I'm basically convinced now. Sexy shaft is right, lets move it.

Unvote, vote: Yosariwen

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.

First you want to hear more then you decide you just want to vote, and finally you decide you don’t want to hear more and just want a lynch. This looks very jumpy and I don’t buy that you’re convinced since you weren’t directly looking at Yosariwen before that first post but you considered Incamnito scum from the early posts. Did you believe Incamn had crumbed in the beginning? If so you must have thought Yosariwen had caught SCUM crumbing. If not, you aren’t reading.

We should hear more defense from Nuwen, but your vote here looks opportunistic rather than scumhunting.

Vote: Ortohoops

Hey gang, I'm ready to start killing.

Vote: Incamnito

For reference here is my page 1 vote for Incamnito, which I find odd considering you voted her too! I didn't notice a crumb at first, I was keen for an early bandwagon though. Since then I did not express suspicion for Incamnito. Your post is incredibly reaching and paints me in a negative light when you're accusing me of something I didn't do.

My other head posted this at the start of page two which is probably where you get your reasoning;

Inspired by my hydrabuddy, I would like to suggest (very strongly) we focus on this game over the other for the time being (according to Adel we are allowed to propose this), because time, that most scum-favouring of all game elements, is of the essence here.

Incamnito looks as good as caught-scum.

But you also fail to realize, you post this a few posts after;

Incamnito lynch gogogo

===[]

Seriously, why are you trying bring this into it?

--

Here is a damn good post that doesn't rely on crumb outting.

I was pretty surprised when I woke up today and we

still

hadn't lynched, seriously, why are we delaying? If we don't lynch Yosariwen, we're probably going to be another two days away from another lynch.

Of course there's a chance they're town, but waiting for the perfect lynch candidate isn't something we can always wait for.

[Yosariwen]

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?[/quote]

What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?

[Yosariwen]

]I was pretty surprised when I woke up today and we

still

hadn't lynched, seriously, why are we delaying? If we don't lynch Yosariwen, we're probably going to be another two days away from another lynch.

Of course there's a chance they're town, but waiting for the perfect lynch candidate isn't something we can always wait for. [/color]

Weak excuse, Hoopla. If you think I'm scum, explain why; if you think I'm town, then we'll lynch someone else. There's no reason it has to take long at all to put together a bandwagon, and there's no reason to lynch someone unless you think they're scum.

It seems like you and shafted/elvis both are trying to create this illusion that my lynch is inevitable here, when of course it is not. And enough people are active so that there's no reason a new bandwagon would have to take long at all.

[Raging Wishbone]

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?[/quote]

meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)

VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!

[Raging Wishbone]

EBWOP

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?

meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)

VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!

ETA: You both infected my tags... gah, lol

[Yosariwen]

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?

meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)

VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!

I didn't "answer your questions" because you're not making any sense!

You asked me "why do we need to lie" when we haven't lied about anything, and you refuse to explain what you're talking about! How the hell am I supposed to "answer that question"? You might as well ask me "Why do you still beat your wife?" and then get angry when I "refuse to answer the question".

Here, I'll "answer your questions":

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first?

I posted what first?

and he asked your permission?

Yeah, I asked if she would mind me posting that conversation in the thread where she explained her breadcrumb. Why?

This is a discussion you both had?

Yes.

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy?

...and here you lose me completly. I did ask her. She said ok. What are you talking about, "a scum buddy"? YOu think a scum buddy asked her if I could post part of her conversation in the thrad? That dosn't make any sense at all, especally since I was just talking to her and I was the one who posted it; how on Earth do you bring someone else into the uestion?

Anyway, what do you mean "he didn't as far as I can read"? I asked her if she minded me posting that line, she didn't mind, so I posted the line. It wasn't the first AIM with her I posted, either. What is so hard to understand about that?

why lie when you don't need to?

No one lied about anything. And I have no idea where you're getting this from, since you refused to answer my questions.

[Raging Wishbone]

@ Yoso: There was another game a bunch of the same people here played called "Lovers multi ball".... so you put together a nice AIM log,...well four of our scum posted FAKE daytalk in that game ten times more convincing then what you wrote! They were SleepeyPanda/Armix and the other scum was Neko/Sekinj... Their daytalk was a brilliant attempt, but it was really easy to cut through the BS and end that scum game quick.

[Raging Wishbone]

I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?

What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?

meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)

VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!

I didn't "answer your questions" because you're not making any sense!

You asked me "why do we need to lie" when we haven't lied about anything, and you refuse to explain what you're talking about! How the hell am I supposed to "answer that question"? You might as well ask me "Why do you still beat your wife?" and then get angry when I "refuse to answer the question".

Here, I'll "answer your questions":

Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first?

I posted what first?

and he asked your permission?

Yeah, I asked if she would mind me posting that conversation in the thread where she explained her breadcrumb. Why?

This is a discussion you both had?

Yes.

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy?

...and here you lose me completly. I did ask her. She said ok. What are you talking about, "a scum buddy"? YOu think a scum buddy asked her if I could post part of her conversation in the thrad? That dosn't make any sense at all, especally since I was just talking to her and I was the one who posted it; how on Earth do you bring someone else into the uestion?

Anyway, what do you mean "he didn't as far as I can read"? I asked her if she minded me posting that line, she didn't mind, so I posted the line. It wasn't the first AIM with her I posted, either. What is so hard to understand about that?

why lie when you don't need to?

No one lied about anything. And I have no idea where you're getting this from, since you refused to answer my questions.

The first person who posted her aim was Adel (our Mod).... I was kinda scared I would get mod killed for pointing it out but now that I know I won't.... It was not you, why did Nuwen answer that question with the implication it was you who first posted it and

she gave you permission to do so

... You did not Adel did, so why did she write that... You know Dude, its all about little lies for no reason...

Also, there is the whole breadcrumbing thing which I think either Hoopla, or someone else caught but they pointed out that you indicated you and Nuwen had talked but Nuwen lied and said you didn't... I might be wrong and it may be vice versa.....

Would I hammer you both now? NO! But I have no problem putting you at l1 after spending half my night defending you and I will let the rest of the town be the judge of this and who we lynch.