DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.


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Post Post #39 (isolation #0) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:05 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Vote Trotsky
. Communist scum!

Here's a question for everyone - how many lynches do you think would be ideal in the next action block, if any?
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Post Post #87 (isolation #1) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:56 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Frog Dodging wrote:Lurker speed lynching is fail.

So far I see a lot of stupid and very little scummy.
Incamnito wrote:I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.
Let's go through this in turn.

What benefit, exactly, do you get from us having votes when we turn up?

What makes you think we can't be bothered, rather than any number of other things that could have come up - personal issues etc?

Time may not be on our side, but that doesn't mean we rush. It just means we pack in the information density - in this game, we have to pack it in time rather than space, but the principal is the same.

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?
I love this post... Did you really not read that he had been killed? I tend to agree with you speed lynching lurkers is fail, but I do agree with a few others who said this game needs to move quick. I have yet to speak with my partner since this game started yesterday, but for now I am going to unvote...

UNVOTE: Trotsky


I don't see anything scummy he has done per say, so unless my partner has something he wants to add I would prefer to look at someone else. Those are my thoughts after an intial read and without talking with my partner. I will talk to him and one of us will be back with a more substantial post later.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #2) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:02 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

So I am really confussed about something in the rules. I thought all our power roles had to have selections in before Apr 27 (I'm sorry I could be completely wrong)....

If I am wrong and Incamito was killed by scum with five votes on him, why? Why would scum waiste that kill on someone who was wagoned so hard? Did he write something that really scared the scum team?
Incamnito wrote:Now that I re-read the possible roles, You are totally right.

Tracker is only good if someone dies....
Doc.RB is good if we are lucky....

and who wants to follow the cop?

So lets get serious:

A) If you have a case, lets see it. Otherwise get off me!

B)
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox - Dont ask yourself questions if you aren't signing your posts! It is confusing. But At least you have opinions on things. Prob-town.
2. Apples and Banana - Die lurker die.
3. Zmd - Lets start playing now! KMD can't blame the time difference, can he?
4. Trotsky - I like your questioning Yos, I dislike you calling someone else asking the SAME THING "Fluffy".
5. Death the Hogfather - Die lurker die.
6. Incamnito - obvtown. :)
7. Yosariwen - Even with just a few posts, you look town to me.. and not JUST me. Strange.
8. Ortohoops - Die lurker die! And people DO TOO care!
9. sex w/ shafteds wife club - Probtown... but maybe I just like them trying to speed things up.
10. PoketheAlpaca - Die Lurking scum. And PF hasn't said
anything
!
11. Pesco-Light - I'm still waiting for you to re-ask your 'questions'. as if
>I<
need to be prod-voted.
12. Raging Wishbone - so many lurkers, so little time...
13. J-Scope - at least you have posted here and there.
14. Frog Dodging - are you here?


That said.. I propose lurker-speed-lynching now.

UNVOTE
VOTE FROG DODGING
That's a pretty in depth, articulate post, but nothing to crucify anyone with at this point, imo....

@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?
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Post Post #97 (isolation #3) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:08 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:Lurker speed lynching is fail.
No, this isn't that stupid. This game has been going for ~46 hours. Players should have no excuse for lurking, this is why hydras have been brought in. Scum get to kill every 84 hours, this is a HUGE incentive to lurk, or at least stall the game.

Here's something for you to consider; in Flay's recent WIH theme game, scum were rewarded rage points weekly. There was a clear advantage for scum to delay lynches and generate rage points which could contribute to a town kill. Here is a small list of activity from this game;

--


Posts per day while alive;


populartajo
:
37.4 PPD

Xylthixlm
:
35.9 PPD

roflcopter
:
24.6 PPD

Albert B. Rampage
:
20.56 PPD

DrippingGoofball:
20.04 PPD

Kinetic
:
15.22 PPD

WaltWishbone
:
14.25 PPD

The Fonz
:
12.05 PPD

Seraphim
:
10.92 PPD

Tenchi
:
10.84 PPD

zwetschenwasser
:
8.09 PPD

q21:
7.6 PPD

Hoopla
:
7.00 PPD

Drench/FireStarter
:
6.2 PPD

Nuwen:
6.14 PPD

Juls
:
5.88 PPD

Guiseppe/Yosarian2:
5.58 PPD

Shinnen_no_me:
4.25 PPD

vIQleS
:
3.58 PPD

Cybele/WeyounsLastClone
:
3.45 PPD


Red = Scum.

With the exception of DGB, scum were in the lower portion of this list. And I have no doubt this game will generate a similar spread.

--

In this game, the advantage is even more severe - a kill every 84 hours! You can bet scum will be trying to stall this game. Here's my thinking;

Kill 1 and kill 2 are the times where we have the least information in the game, where the kill is closest to random. This means the percentage between thinking X is more scummy than Y is at it's potential lowest - and we're better off lynching X or Y based on percentages that can be made up in more beneficial areas. One of these areas is activity, and potential helpfulness later in the game. The second quality I've described is not really quantifiable, but ties in well with activity this game. We can't afford to leave a mid and endgame with a high percentage of players inclined to lurk. We either need to up activity signifigantly, or take a chance on lynching lurkers.

Here is an early list of posts per hydra. Remember this game has been going on for more than 46 hours.


sex w/ shafteds wife club
12

Zaphod Beeblebrox
9

Pesco-Light
7

Ortohoops
6

Trotsky
6

Yosariwen
6


J-Scope
5

Frog Dodging
3

Raging Wishbone
3


Apples and Banana
2

Death the Hogfather
2

PoketheAlpaca
2

Zmd
2


I would bet that there is at least two scum in the red zone and possibly the orange, which is where I'm going to cast a vote for now. More importantly though, the town needs to promote a more proactive approach toward activity and discouraging lurking. We need to lynch at least every 84 hours - and if some players can't commit enough time within that period to help orchestrate decent percentage plays, then they need to be eliminated before it screws us over.

tl;dr? Our best percentage play is lynching lurkers now on the basis of early lynches being closest to random. The percentage we may lose is lynching a possibly less scummy player is more than made up in keeping the most active players alive now. This boosts the average activity per player, and means the consensus for a lynch is more thoroughly discussed, which is good.

tl;dr 2: lynch lurkers please.

Vote: ZMD
, I know you two are both active.
Hoopla that was a tremendous post and it carries much merit, although I disagree with lynching ANY townie, imo.. We got 7 carrying over from War In Heaven (Me, you, ROFL, Tajo, Seraphim, Nuwen, and DGB)... can I PLEASE make a suggestion, we botched that game and should have won except for a few reason that were discussed during the post game "show"... It was destroyed by a difference of opinions on strategy; IE, some were playing survivor, some mafia. Some wanted to go fast, some wanted to go slow, some wanted to vote, some wanted to play cowboy...but in my opinion, the worst mistake we made as a town was trying to Speed lynch lurkers so early in the game... (thx Xyl). DONT lynch TOWNIES!

Also just remember me and you were two of the first three gone, lol, so yeah thx for bringing that up!
Yosarian2 wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:So I am really confussed about something in the rules. I thought all our power roles had to have selections in before Apr 27 (I'm sorry I could be completely wrong)....

If I am wrong and Incamito was killed by scum with five votes on him, why? Why would scum waiste that kill on someone who was wagoned so hard? Did he write something that really scared the scum team?
From the rules:
6. A lynch will occur when more than 50% of the players have their votes placed upon the same player, or have their votes placed upon Nolynch. After the 50%+1 threshold is reached, the lynch will occur regardless of any subsequent posting. Kills will be posted in thread between 6 and 30 hours after I receive them by PM. I will attempt to randomize the delay as much as possible to prevent date/time type confirmation of kill source.
So the kill might have been submitted 6 hours before the kill, or it might have been submitted as early as 30 hours before the kill. If it's the second, then that would have been before Incam was at 5 votes.
@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?
Nuwen spotted a possible breadcrumb by Incamn, and mentioned it in thread; it sounds like she did so because she was trying to figure out his alignment and if the breadcrumb should be trusted or not. It was a mistake, especally since the breadcrumb was truthfull, but not a scumtell, since there is no reason she would want to mention it in thread as scum.

-Yos
Sorry I still don't get it, there was not 50% of the votes places on Incangnitoan? Alright so Nuwen made a huge MISTAKE? As far as my meta and previous experiences playing with her, she seems to think she is incapable of mistakes? I'm not sure I am buying this?
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Post Post #100 (isolation #4) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:32 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Hoopla wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: Hoopla that was a tremendous post and it carries much merit,
although I disagree with lynching ANY townie
, imo.. We got 7 carrying over from War In Heaven (Me, you, ROFL, Tajo, Seraphim, Nuwen, and DGB)... can I PLEASE make a suggestion, we botched that game and should have won except for a few reason that were discussed during the post game "show"... It was destroyed by a difference of opinions on strategy; IE, some were playing survivor, some mafia. Some wanted to go fast, some wanted to go slow, some wanted to vote, some wanted to play cowboy...but in my opinion, the worst mistake we made as a town was trying to Speed lynch lurkers so early in the game... (thx Xyl). DONT lynch TOWNIES!
I don't want to lynch townies. Lurker =/= townie

The main point I'm trying to get across is activity should be taken into account when selecting an early lynch, especially in a game like this. For example, you have two candidates you see at relatively even chances of being scum. The first is very active, the second isn't. Activity tilts your choice in favour of the lurker.

What if the same two candidates you saw at say 35% and 30% instead? I'd still lynch the lurker on the basis the active player is giving more information about their alignment and others, helping making future lynches more accurate. A 5% difference isn't taking that much of a gamble. What about 10% or 15%? What is the biggest margin you can sacrifice? My suggestion is that it's larger than normal.

--

Basically, in my previous post I'm trying to explain that when the gap between a group of candidates is slim, you're better off keeping players that can help and have been known to help the town.
Yeah and absolutely agreed... I am actually kind wonderinf asw well as his partner why Seraphim has not posted yet since he has been here for like three hours since I have been reading this thread and replying.... Maybe he does not know the game started yet?
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Post Post #101 (isolation #5) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:35 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP: Yeah and absolutely agreed... I am actually kind wonderin as well as his partner...why Seraphim has not posted yet since he has been here for like three hours since I have been reading this thread and replying.... Maybe he does not know the game started yet?

to elaborate a bit: I am sure if you are Town you do not want Townies lynched and I will look at lurkers with a a critical eye but my bottom line is I disagree with lynching lurkers.
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Post Post #104 (isolation #6) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:47 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Yosariwen wrote:Raging wishbone: I quoted that because the second half of rule 6 talks about the rules for kills, not because of the part about lynching.

And yeah, since Incamn was actually a tracker, I think it was a mistake for Nuwen to mention in thread her thoughts about the possible breadcrumb; if Incamn had been scum instead, it wouldn't have been a mistake.

As for your last few sentances; I have no idea if she thinks she's "incapable of making mistakes", and I'm not sure what that has to do with my comments on her play.
-Yos
So you actually are not sure why/how incamn was lynched or you can not clarify the rule for me? It's no big deal if you cant explain, just tell me and I can ask Adel or wait for my partner to wake up and ask him...

As far as the second half, my comment was a direct reflection on our last game WIH and based on Hooplas very in depth and articulate post, as well as doing a meta on Nuwen..... I didn't write I was gonna vote for either of you yet! I just wrote, I am not buying it? (Do you need more clarification Yosey?).. please let me know if you do. ;)
Ortohoops wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:Lurker speed lynching is fail.
No, this isn't that stupid. This game has been going for ~46 hours. Players should have no excuse for lurking, this is why hydras have been brought in. Scum get to kill every 84 hours, this is a HUGE incentive to lurk, or at least stall the game.

Here's something for you to consider; in Flay's recent WIH theme game, scum were rewarded rage points weekly. There was a clear advantage for scum to delay lynches and generate rage points which could contribute to a town kill. Here is a small list of activity from this game;

--


Posts per day while alive;


populartajo
:
37.4 PPD

Xylthixlm
:
35.9 PPD

roflcopter
:
24.6 PPD

Albert B. Rampage
:
20.56 PPD

DrippingGoofball:
20.04 PPD

Kinetic
:
15.22 PPD

WaltWishbone
:
14.25 PPD

The Fonz
:
12.05 PPD

Seraphim
:
10.92 PPD

Tenchi
:
10.84 PPD

zwetschenwasser
:
8.09 PPD

q21:
7.6 PPD

Hoopla
:
7.00 PPD

Drench/FireStarter
:
6.2 PPD

Nuwen:
6.14 PPD

Juls
:
5.88 PPD

Guiseppe/Yosarian2:
5.58 PPD

Shinnen_no_me:
4.25 PPD

vIQleS
:
3.58 PPD

Cybele/WeyounsLastClone
:
3.45 PPD


Red = Scum.

With the exception of DGB, scum were in the lower portion of this list. And I have no doubt this game will generate a similar spread.

--

In this game, the advantage is even more severe - a kill every 84 hours! You can bet scum will be trying to stall this game. Here's my thinking;

Kill 1 and kill 2 are the times where we have the least information in the game, where the kill is closest to random. This means the percentage between thinking X is more scummy than Y is at it's potential lowest - and we're better off lynching X or Y based on percentages that can be made up in more beneficial areas. One of these areas is activity, and potential helpfulness later in the game. The second quality I've described is not really quantifiable, but ties in well with activity this game. We can't afford to leave a mid and endgame with a high percentage of players inclined to lurk. We either need to up activity signifigantly, or take a chance on lynching lurkers.

Here is an early list of posts per hydra. Remember this game has been going on for more than 46 hours.


sex w/ shafteds wife club
12

Zaphod Beeblebrox
9

Pesco-Light
7

Ortohoops
6

Trotsky
6

Yosariwen
6


J-Scope
5

Frog Dodging
3

Raging Wishbone
3


Apples and Banana
2

Death the Hogfather
2

PoketheAlpaca
2

Zmd
2


I would bet that there is at least two scum in the red zone and possibly the orange, which is where I'm going to cast a vote for now. More importantly though, the town needs to promote a more proactive approach toward activity and discouraging lurking. We need to lynch at least every 84 hours - and if some players can't commit enough time within that period to help orchestrate decent percentage plays, then they need to be eliminated before it screws us over.

tl;dr? Our best percentage play is lynching lurkers now on the basis of early lynches being closest to random. The percentage we may lose is lynching a possibly less scummy player is more than made up in keeping the most active players alive now. This boosts the average activity per player, and means the consensus for a lynch is more thoroughly discussed, which is good.

tl;dr 2: lynch lurkers please.

Vote: ZMD
, I know you two are both active.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #7) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:31 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Frog Dodging wrote:
Pesco Light wrote:I'm taking that as over-reacting to an obv-prod vote. It can stay.

Pesco
I see I'm mostly proving right about Pesco Light being the weakest of the hydras this game. How blasé.
Incamnito wrote:I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.
I work Friday-Monday and unlike you have a life. Sorry!
Incamnito wrote:Hey, we were talking, my partner and I, and we decided we wouldn't be surprised if there were scum on our wagon. It does have just a little too much steam.
So, for future reference:
Incamnito (5) --> J-Scope, Death the Hogfather, Ortohoops, Zmd, Pesco Light
Let's see... Scopey adores bandwagons, Pesco Light is made up of gibbering idiots as well as Ortohoops, Death is made of people who over-logic things, and Zmd is made up of dumbass who needs to pay attention and Zazie. That explains all 5 votes fairly well.

Incamnito suddenly dying is interesting, more interesting is the fact that sex, PL, Ortohoops, A&B, and even the other me completely ignored analysis of this post in favour of discussing Incamnito's death.
J-Scope wrote:@Frog Dodging: Are you being sarcastic in any of your posts?
Good question. Next!
J-Scope wrote:We have to rely on lynches to find scum instead of power roles we can’t dictate or confirm even exist yet, and I think we should probably follow the same standards as deciding whether to lynch or no lynch on a day/night game. If someone looks scummy enough, let’s lynch them.
Define "enough". "Enough", for instance, could be attempting to assassinate the president, or it could just be looking at him funny.

I am really suspicious of Yosariwen at this point, and I'm surprised that more people aren't.
Ortohoops wrote:tl;dr? Our best percentage play is lynching lurkers now on the basis of early lynches being closest to random. The percentage we may lose is lynching a possibly less scummy player is more than made up in keeping the most active players alive now. This boosts the average activity per player, and means the consensus for a lynch is more thoroughly discussed, which is good.
Let's take the already somewhat random early lynches and make them more random by adding (what is in the early stages an) arbitrary criterion? How is this exactly a "good plan"?
Raging Wishbone wrote:Sorry I still don't get it, there was not 50% of the votes places on Incangnitoan?
Pay attention, dumbass.

PL totally overreacts to tajo's suspicion of it. That's so adorably hilarious and worse than what Yosariwen has done.

My suspicions lie firmly in the Pesco Light camp, although I have no clue what other I thinks at the moment. I would not be opposed to a Yosariwen stringing-up at this point, but I think that can wait for now.

Vote: Pesco Light


Please note, as I believe has been said elsewhere, that I will not be signing my posts, nor will other I. We are as one, and one as we are, we have no need to separate our thoughts.
Are you kidding me sweety? I aint voting for PL, because you disguise a fart as some sort of diatribe that is suppossed to be an articulate argument! Lynch scum DUMBASS, not Townies!
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Post Post #121 (isolation #8) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:40 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

[quote="Zmd"]Joke votes Trotsky. Doesn't matter yet.

Asks question about how many lynches.
Seems obvious that we lynch when we have a candidate instead of setting numbers.


Disagrees with lynching lurkers. Null, but stance noted.

The unvote sounds more like unvoting a serious vote than a joke vote. Over-explanation maybe.

Action deadline comment. Possible subtle fishing (aka trying to get a PR who submitted an action to answer in a way that may give them away subtly)

Slight buddying to Hoopla.

Decent point on Nuwen's "mistake".

Calls out Sera not posting then gives an excuse for him. (Which hydra is Sera a part of?)

Restates stance regarding lurker lynches.
[quote]

Do you read much or is it me? ;) I still dont get it Yosey said at 50% we auto lynch someone. We were not at 50%, he had five votes on him... so I just don't get it? I mean your statement that I bolded... is that a rule of the game or your opinion? Right on, the rest of it, meh, fair enough. :)
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Post Post #122 (isolation #9) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:43 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP

Zmd wrote:Joke votes Trotsky. Doesn't matter yet.

Asks question about how many lynches.
Seems obvious that we lynch when we have a candidate instead of setting numbers.


Disagrees with lynching lurkers. Null, but stance noted.

The unvote sounds more like unvoting a serious vote than a joke vote. Over-explanation maybe.

Action deadline comment. Possible subtle fishing (aka trying to get a PR who submitted an action to answer in a way that may give them away subtly)

Slight buddying to Hoopla.

Decent point on Nuwen's "mistake".

Calls out Sera not posting then gives an excuse for him. (Which hydra is Sera a part of?)

Restates stance regarding lurker lynches.


Do you read much or is it me? ;) I still dont get it Yosey said at 50% we auto lynch someone. We were not at 50%, he had five votes on him... so I just don't get it? I mean your statement that I bolded... is that a rule of the game or your opinion? Right on, the rest of it, meh, fair enough.
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Post Post #124 (isolation #10) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:52 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

PoketheAlpaca wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?
Because now he's a dead tracker.
Aye, but surely it's better that he looked town than that he looked scummy.

Also, perhaps it would have been better if people hadn't been spending their whole time shouting "OMG he's soooo town"
Yes why in god's name would I want people to stop bandwagoning an obv townie in a speed game? Shame on me!
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:There were five on the wagon. Suck one.

Also, what is your point? That we didn't like a wagon on a person who is now revealed town?
What are you on your period? You syncing up again?[/had to say it]. Generally false sympathy is a classic scumtell especially when its over a dead town power role.
Raging Wishbone wrote:@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
J-Scope wrote:I don't get it. What does Portishead have to do with Zmd? It is an inside joke? I want answers!
Are you that dense?

Incamn's crumbing is neutral for now, as there are multiple data roles than can be of either alignment and would benefit from early crumbs. Currently a null tell.
p much
If that's what you thought then why didn't jump on yosariwen with a vote. This game is suppose to go quickly right?
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:Lurker speed lynching is fail.

So far I see a lot of stupid and very little scummy.
Incamnito wrote:I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.
Let's go through this in turn.

What benefit, exactly, do you get from us having votes when we turn up?

What makes you think we can't be bothered, rather than any number of other things that could have come up - personal issues etc?

Time may not be on our side, but that doesn't mean we rush. It just means we pack in the information density - in this game, we have to pack it in time rather than space, but the principal is the same.

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?
I love this post... Did you really not read that he had been killed? I tend to agree with you speed lynching lurkers is fail, but I do agree with a few others who said this game needs to move quick.
Did you think Frog dodge was putting up a front here? His questions seemed genuine to me since he hadn't posted at all before that.

Something feels a little wierd about J-Scopes post 89.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18#1644818
Feels more like he is speculating then deciding on things for
themself
. Call it a gut suspicion.

General comment: Its best to lynch whoever is scummy. Lynching a scummy lurker is fine but lynching a v/la lurker would not be good. I'm going to hunt scum primarily.

Edit while previwing: I, PokerFace, read/write posts slowly. Tajo reading/posting here at same time is mega lawls!
For those not keeping score Tajo was 107, 109, 110, 112
I was 106 and this post.
I didn't know 2 people could be logged into mafiascum on the same account at the same time until this game. Its funny. i'm going to stop posting for the night to avoid triple posting and or getting ourselves mod killed by the 15 post rule if its in both games.
my main point of asking you that queston was because I am kinda torn on this you are the most OBVTown or OBVSCum player imo at this point. Did you really nor read he had been lynched? Because you asked him questions as if he was still alive in the game and if you were scum, then you would not be asking these questions because you would have known he was dead. I don't have any type of read on FrogDodge... as far as I am concerened the two most important points of this game so far are...

1.) You not knowing Incamnito was dead

2.) Yoso/Nuwen post

Those are my honest opinions of things that have stood out so far. :)
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Post Post #127 (isolation #11) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:47 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Frog Dodging wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:
Pesco Light wrote:I'm taking that as over-reacting to an obv-prod vote. It can stay.

Pesco
I see I'm mostly proving right about Pesco Light being the weakest of the hydras this game. How blasé.
Incamnito wrote:I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.
I work Friday-Monday and unlike you have a life. Sorry!
Incamnito wrote:Hey, we were talking, my partner and I, and we decided we wouldn't be surprised if there were scum on our wagon. It does have just a little too much steam.
So, for future reference:
Incamnito (5) --> J-Scope, Death the Hogfather, Ortohoops, Zmd, Pesco Light
Let's see... Scopey adores bandwagons, Pesco Light is made up of gibbering idiots as well as Ortohoops, Death is made of people who over-logic things, and Zmd is made up of dumbass who needs to pay attention and Zazie. That explains all 5 votes fairly well.

Incamnito suddenly dying is interesting, more interesting is the fact that sex, PL, Ortohoops, A&B, and even the other me completely ignored analysis of this post in favour of discussing Incamnito's death.
J-Scope wrote:@Frog Dodging: Are you being sarcastic in any of your posts?
Good question. Next!
J-Scope wrote:We have to rely on lynches to find scum instead of power roles we can’t dictate or confirm even exist yet, and I think we should probably follow the same standards as deciding whether to lynch or no lynch on a day/night game. If someone looks scummy enough, let’s lynch them.
Define "enough". "Enough", for instance, could be attempting to assassinate the president, or it could just be looking at him funny.

I am really suspicious of Yosariwen at this point, and I'm surprised that more people aren't.
Ortohoops wrote:tl;dr? Our best percentage play is lynching lurkers now on the basis of early lynches being closest to random. The percentage we may lose is lynching a possibly less scummy player is more than made up in keeping the most active players alive now. This boosts the average activity per player, and means the consensus for a lynch is more thoroughly discussed, which is good.
Let's take the already somewhat random early lynches and make them more random by adding (what is in the early stages an) arbitrary criterion? How is this exactly a "good plan"?
Raging Wishbone wrote:Sorry I still don't get it, there was not 50% of the votes places on Incangnitoan?
Pay attention, dumbass.

PL totally overreacts to tajo's suspicion of it. That's so adorably hilarious and worse than what Yosariwen has done.

My suspicions lie firmly in the Pesco Light camp, although I have no clue what other I thinks at the moment. I would not be opposed to a Yosariwen stringing-up at this point, but I think that can wait for now.

Vote: Pesco Light


Please note, as I believe has been said elsewhere, that I will not be signing my posts, nor will other I. We are as one, and one as we are, we have no need to separate our thoughts.
Are you kidding me sweety? I aint voting for PL, because you disguise a fart as some sort of diatribe that is suppossed to be an articulate argument! Lynch scum DUMBASS, not Townies!
Riveting analysis.
Right back at ya sweets...you'll have this game broken in no time with your clever insight.... Keep up the good work genius. ;)
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Post Post #130 (isolation #12) » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:32 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Hoopla that was a tremendous post and it carries much merit, although I disagree with lynching ANY townie, imo..
Raging Wishbone wrote:to elaborate a bit: I am sure if you are Town you do not want Townies lynched and I will look at lurkers with a a critical eye but my bottom line is I disagree with lynching lurkers.
But do you believe that Hoopla knows lynching lurkers means lynching townies? Do you feel that lynching lurkers will mean lynching townies? It’s odd that you would take a stand that typically does not need to be said, that town don’t want to lynch town.
No, of course not, let me try to preface the base of everything I worte and why I wrote it again. Hoopla brought up a very good comparison imo (War in Heaven)..., my comments were a direct response to what she wrote because she has knowledge of that game. Seven of us here played in that game (me, her, Rofl, Tajo, Nuwen, DGB, and Seraphim). I do not think Hoopla meant she wanted to lynch Townies, I was trying to make a point that this is what happened during the course of that game with the lynch all lurkers, arguments over play strategy, ect.... and if it seems odd to you, than please read War In Heaven. That is why I am taking this stand and feel strongly about it.
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Post Post #166 (isolation #13) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:09 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Raging Wishbone wrote:
Vote Trotsky
. Communist scum!
Win.


Apologies for not posting since then (this is RR speaking), life got way hectic. I hope to be able to maintain the necassary pace for this game in the future, though unfortunately I can't promise anything.

Now, the main point I feel the need to really stress out here is
less talking, more lynching
. Seriously. With a new scumkill every 84 hours (that isn't in any way balanced out by the town PRs, especially given the possible SK), we should be hurrying this up substantially. 84 hours without a lynch is the equivalent of voting no lynch in a regular game day. This is the one game where it's more important to be quick and decisive than to think things through from every possible angle. This phase ends in two hours so it's too late, but during the next one I think at least two lynches are in order to make up for it.

What you need to remember is that lynching doesn't end the day here. It therefore costs the town much less. What does "end the day" is doing nothing. So less talking, more bloodshed people!

Hoopla's long post is right on target, though I'm pretty sure at least one scum will implement this and go way active. So we shouldn't just lynch people based on number of posts, but rather based on whether or not they prove helpful in bringing this game forward. Scum has a huge incentive to stall this game, which could be achived by starting longass arguments, for example, even better than by lurking.

Thus far I see Frod Dodging being useless, arguing against Orthoops' plan (meaning supporting slowing down the game, meanig bad) and then after being called out on it immediately upping the aggressive with a vote on Yosariwen, who thus far feels strongly town. That's definitely good enough for a
vote: frog dodging
.
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Post Post #167 (isolation #14) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:13 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

People who aren't doing enough (consider this a weak FOS):

Apples and Bananas
Zmd
Death the Hogfather
Pesco-Light
J-Scope
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Post Post #177 (isolation #15) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:24 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

I'm not at all suspicious of Yosariwen, the crumbing, while a bad move, feels like unnatural play for scum (especially smart scum), and while I've never played with Nuwen, Yos feels like his town self thus far.
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Post Post #212 (isolation #16) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:33 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Seven of us here played in that game (me, her, Rofl, Tajo, Nuwen, DGB, and Seraphim). I do not think Hoopla meant she wanted to lynch Townies, I was trying to make a point that this is what happened during the course of that game with the lynch all lurkers
But do you think that strategy is less reliable in this game? Do you find it odd that from her experience in that other game she should realize this too?
That's a good question, but I get nothing but town vibes from the Hoopla team... and this game quite frankly is going much better because it seems the one thing MOST of us agree on is that we need to move quick...

Paraphrasing the rest of the posts today; I think the sexed v yo/nuw argument sound like two townies... although Frog Dodge made an excellent point elaborating on a few other posts that it did seem like Yoso lied and completely contradicted Nuwens post about them not talking...

My partner wants his vote on Froggy right now, so I'm leaving it there, but we talked earlier and he said he would be able to post soonish... so if he wants to take Yoso to L1... I trust my honey Bunnies judgement.

I ain't got many good scum reads right now, I have town reads...

Jscope
Hoops
PokeaTaj

I kinda think...

yousonew
sexwithashaft

...and probably frogdoger may be townies. In fact without my partner around I would unvote frogdodge if he was in danger of being lynched... Yoso I am just not so sure about, I also dont like that she is posting elsewhere as someone else pointed out but not here?

Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.
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Post Post #218 (isolation #17) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:38 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?
Tajo is being Tajo, imo... I dont Poker at all, but I cn tell the difference between each of there post. He is so methodical, calculated...he turns it on when he needs to and always provides a threw and threw analysis. He does not try to get just anyone hung, its like (no pun intnded) he is playing poker, he keeps his cards close to the table so no one can see. I have never played with him as scum, but as town...he is exactly the same.
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Post Post #219 (isolation #18) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:40 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?
Tajo is being Tajo, imo... I dont Poker at all, but I cn tell the difference between each of there post. He is so methodical, calculated...he turns it on when he needs to and always provides a threw and threw analysis. He does not try to get just anyone hung, its like (no pun intnded) he is playing poker, he keeps his cards close to the table so no one can see. I have never played with him as scum, but as town...he is exactly the same.
oh and by the by, dont get me wrong; he aint obv town, I will lynch him quicker then you all can type wifom, if he gets scummy, lol. ;)
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Post Post #224 (isolation #19) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:50 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

SensFan wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.
I didn't try to get anyone modkilled, and xofelf hasn't been online.
Sex with shafteds wife said this....
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.
someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.
So, which one of you is scum trying to get me modkilled here? Fess up.
That would be A&B
SexEd: where did you get your information?
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Post Post #225 (isolation #20) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:51 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:What has PokeaTaj done to make you label them town?
Tajo is being Tajo, imo... I dont Poker at all, but I cn tell the difference between each of there post. He is so methodical, calculated...he turns it on when he needs to and always provides a threw and threw analysis. He does not try to get just anyone hung, its like (no pun intnded) he is playing poker, he keeps his cards close to the table so no one can see. I have never played with him as scum, but as town...he is exactly the same.
oh and by the by, dont get me wrong; he aint obv town, I will lynch him quicker then you all can type wifom, if he gets scummy, lol. ;)
so why did you put him in the town category? Futhermore why is J-Scope there?
And you dont understand this why?

meh, I think J-scope is town cause I like the name. ;)
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Post Post #226 (isolation #21) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:04 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.
someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.
RULE#!7
: 17. I support free speech. Quote anything you like (except for ongoing games!) whenever you like. All forms of cryptography that do not require software (or more than 1 hour for me to work with just pen and paper) for encryption or decryption are acceptable as well. Do not PM or otherwise contact players outside the thread with game related information unless you are explicitly permitted.

So this was an encryoted post? or is SexEd trying to get Apples and Bannans lynched?... I don't get this at all?
Raging Wishbone wrote:
SensFan wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.
I didn't try to get anyone modkilled, and xofelf hasn't been online.
Sex with shafteds wife said this....
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.
someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.
So, which one of you is scum trying to get me modkilled here? Fess up.
That would be A&B
SexEd: where did you get your information?
Based on Adels post we can discuss this and open a can of worms.... who is mercuriala? Why blame this on Apples and Bannana...gah, so many queston, so little time, lol. ;)
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Post Post #228 (isolation #22) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:09 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

SensFan wrote:mercuriala is Nuwen's AIM account.
That was Yos showing her reason for not explaining yet, even though she was on AIM.
Adel said someone asked if it was illegal.
Yos asked who was trying to get them modkilled.
SexEd blamed me.
You took his word for it and said you didn't like that we tried to modkill someone.
right on, why did sexed blame you?
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Post Post #229 (isolation #23) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:10 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

...and you are right I should not have taken his/her word for it without reading! I trusted her/him.
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Post Post #232 (isolation #24) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:31 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted
Attempt not to answer my question noted! ;)

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED
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Post Post #236 (isolation #25) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:06 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

This will be a BAD lynch imo, so whoever pulls the trigger please make sure everyone else wants to stay on board considering the dialog of the last few hours!
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Post Post #237 (isolation #26) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:09 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Again, there is a very clear and distinct difference between going quick to ensure TOWN Wins and being irresponsible and making town lose.... No one is trying to slow down anything, my position is I don't want Townies lynched.
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Post Post #239 (isolation #27) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:12 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Yosariwen wrote:(keep messing up the alts thing)

On a side note, the fact that whoever attempted to have me modkilled is refusing to admit it is making me more and more convinced that that person is scum. Now, there weren't that many people around and posting at the time; it's possible that someone just stopped by the thread, tried to get me modkilled, and left without posting, though.
You are kidding right? I was here, I've been here all night... Apples and Bannas was not when SEXED stated that they tried to get you modkilled? SexEd need to answer for that!
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Post Post #240 (isolation #28) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:13 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted
Attempt not to answer my question noted! ;)

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED
because they were the only other player online
Thats a falt out lie, I have not left here!
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Post Post #241 (isolation #29) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted
Attempt not to answer my question noted! ;)

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED
because they were the only other player online
Thats a falt out lie, I have not left here!
I have been here all night, why did you NOT write Raging Wishbone tried to get them modkilled...why choose Applea and Banna...and why is yoso defending you all?

Is the rest of the scum team Yoso/nuwen and sexed? Along with Trotsky? Damn this game is getting easier by the miute the more you all talk. ;)
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Post Post #244 (isolation #30) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:26 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Idiot wrote:Is the rest of the scum team Yoso/nuwen and sexed?
God you suck at this game. I thought I was bad, but jesus. Why in the hell would scum super bus their remaining partner on D2? Get your head out of your ass.
Nah, its comfy up there sweety and smells nice. ;)

Trying to change the conversation and the context of what I wrote, much?

Is this really your response/position? You tried to blame Apples and Banana for trying to get yoso modkilled and flat out lied that he was the only person online at the time, when I have been here for the past three hours! So you are pretty scummy in my opinion right now, emough for a vote...

So I don't understand the second pat of your comment, but I'm a little slow. Please enlighten me, I am on pins and needles awaiting your response. j/k, lol ;)
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Post Post #247 (isolation #31) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:31 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted
Attempt not to answer my question noted! ;)

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED
because they were the only other player online
Thats a falt out lie, I have not left here!
Time stamp on your first post as of late is 6:33 local for me, on the Mods is 5:56. Try again.

Though Hoops did seem to be posting at the time and I missed it.

LIEEESSS I TELLY OUUURR!

So is Raging Wishbone trying to kill his buddy Yosiwen to distance from them?
Damn Dude, your insights are just astonishing... Although, psst... I got a secret for you, I have not left here tonight wanna know who all stopped by in addition to Hoopla (well there was DGB, poker, tajo, nuwen, you, me, sensfan, hog, as well as a few others who i cant remember everyones name yet). Gosh, lol.... I aint trying to get Yos killed in fact I refuse to vote for them and urge everyone to still consider them very carefully before voting for them; you are my prefered lynch and playing with you is fun, lol ;)
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Post Post #250 (isolation #32) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:53 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

OK I am gonna, reword my previous posts because I think I got distracted and was not as articulate as I would have liked to be... Let me ask a question,, who tried to get YoSo mod killed?

Did you Apples and Banana? If not who did fess up...

Why did SexwithEd claim it was Apples and Bananas? They claim it was because they were the only person online... That is a flat out lie! I was here and saw tons of people on line (in fact I was wondering if they were lurking scum)..

Regarding YoSo, I would not vote to lynch them, (other than their possible lie and trying to find an excuse for sexEd, I still think they sound like townies trying to stay in the game).... then again my partner is much wiser and expereinced than I am so if he votes them tomorrow or next chance he has to vote I will support his choice!

with only two votes, I am kinda liking the sexwithEd wagon....
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.
someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.
RULE#!7
: 17. I support free speech. Quote anything you like (except for ongoing games!) whenever you like. All forms of cryptography that do not require software (or more than 1 hour for me to work with just pen and paper) for encryption or decryption are acceptable as well. Do not PM or otherwise contact players outside the thread with game related information unless you are explicitly permitted.

So this was an encryoted post? or is SexEd trying to get Apples and Bannans lynched?... I don't get this at all?
Raging Wishbone wrote:
SensFan wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.
I didn't try to get anyone modkilled, and xofelf hasn't been online.
Sex with shafteds wife said this....
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.
someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.
So, which one of you is scum trying to get me modkilled here? Fess up.
That would be A&B
SexEd: where did you get your information?
Based on Adels post we can discuss this and open a can of worms.... who is mercuriala? Why blame this on Apples and Bannana...gah, so many queston, so little time, lol. ;)
SensFan wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.
I didn't try to get anyone modkilled, and xofelf hasn't been online.
This is the exchange for anyone who missed it... It was really interesting, imo.
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Post Post #252 (isolation #33) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:58 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:The question of who ratted on Yos is a dead end. It looks like my other head guessed A&B because they were online. But for all we know, Yos asked Adel himself, and then pretended to wonder who was trying to get him modkilled. And I think Yos even looking for a rat is ridiculous because if it was illegal, Adel would notice anyway and modkill you. Nobody can "get you modkilled." You have to do something modkillable, and then it would be your fault, not anyone else's even if they point it out to the mod.

Most importantly:

NOBODY NEEDS TO GET YOU MODKILLED SINCE WE ARE LYNCHING YOU.

Yos is pretending there is some conspiracy to modkill him, even though, um there's clearly no need to do that. This "who is trying to get Yos modkilled OMG!!1!1!1" thing is a non issue. Yos is just trying to distract from his lynch.
...and right n this is a good response, although I do disagree with two things. I think it is critical to find out who tried to get Yoso mod killed, if someone did..... however in the end if Yoso does get lynched and flips scum THEN it is a mute conversation. At this point in the game, I am not gonna wwitch my vote, but I wont be around tomorrow or the weekend either I think... so I will leave it to my partner to make a final choice. :)
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Post Post #257 (isolation #34) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:15 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:Look, A&B posted at 5:44, and Adel posted the explanation about rule 17 at 5:56. Only other person posting around then was Yosariwen. So it is not unthinkable for anyone to assume A&B notified the mod.

But it could have been any fucking person in the game, who wasn't even posting at the time.

We will never know the truth unless someone fesses up.

And whoever did notify the mod, I would never call that "TRYING TO GET YOS MODKILLED!!!11!" Because nobody can "get a person modkilled." If you do something illegal, it's your fault.

This is a complete waste of time, and derailment of Yos's wagon.
SO you are saying you made a HUGE fucking mistake blaming Apples and banana for trying to have yoso modkilled?

This would NOT have been a mistake I would have made since we were both online at the same time and you had to have seen me hoopla, tajo, and eeryone else that was here...why single out A & B... or again did you just make a mistake?

Are you kidding me with this manipulative pile off bullshit about someone deserves to be modkilled if they violate the rules...meh, fine YOU are RIGHT, but you did not notify the mod you tried to blame Apple and Banana! In otehrwords, everything you wrote does not explain how bad your post was about A & B!
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Post Post #260 (isolation #35) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:20 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:Look, A&B posted at 5:44, and Adel posted the explanation about rule 17 at 5:56. Only other person posting around then was Yosariwen. So it is not unthinkable for anyone to assume A&B notified the mod.
raging wishbone wrote: I have not left here tonight wanna know who all stopped by in addition to Hoopla (well there was DGB, poker, tajo, nuwen, you, me, sensfan, hog, as well as a few others who i cant remember everyones name yet).
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Post Post #266 (isolation #36) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:Look, A&B posted at 5:44, and Adel posted the explanation about rule 17 at 5:56. Only other person posting around then was Yosariwen. So it is not unthinkable for anyone to assume A&B notified the mod.
raging wishbone wrote: I have not left here tonight wanna know who all stopped by in addition to Hoopla (well there was DGB, poker, tajo, nuwen, you, me, sensfan, hog, as well as a few others who i cant remember everyones name yet).
I have no idea who was online at the time someone asked Adel a question. All I know is who posted around then. It was A&B.
lol right on fair enough.... but can I ask you again don't you think it was a huge mistake to make that assumption about Apples and Banana's?

And let me take a completely different approach than I have tonight so far regarding this matter. Did you see that I wrote a snarky post to him about trying to get yoso modkilled? How many other people who don't read enough (like myself tonight) may have started a wagon on him because either you or your partner blamed him for that and then worst of all tried to defend yourself instead of saying WE are wrong, especially when it is based on a lie (I know everyone who has visited this thread tonight) You all know that he was not the only one around when you or your partner blamed A & B....

Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.

Dude or dudette it just sounds really scummy to me.
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Post Post #272 (isolation #37) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:57 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Ortohoops wrote:
Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.
I agree, my gut is just giving me second thought.

Anyway Yoswen, if you're town please scumhunt in your remaining hours.
This post really bugs me.
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Post Post #274 (isolation #38) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:02 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Ortohoops wrote:
Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.
I agree, my gut is just giving me second thought.

Anyway Yoswen, if you're town please scumhunt in your remaining hours.
This post really bugs me.
I know! shaft.ed shouldn't doubt himself like this. He should be as bitchy as me.
lol, it's actually hoops post that bugs me...reminds me of going to the dentist office and having a nurse tell me sure take the shot of novacine, it wont hurty sweetty..... Then OUCH, lol

But now that you metnion it...there is something off there too. j/k, lol ;)
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Post Post #280 (isolation #39) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:09 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
mercuriala (6:23:50 PM): shafted can take my double work shift and midterm and shove it.
someone asked if this was an illegal post. It isn't. See rule 17.
Can anyone help me out with this post please? Was this the first time the name "mercuriala" was posted in this thread?

I am really thinking yoso is a bad lynch... Whoever wants to hammer, please read the last four pages (tonights posts) carefully... and give it just a tad of time. My partner said he would probably be around tomorrow afternoon and I know RR will cut through those pages like butter melts on warm bread...

I am NOT stalling, a few hours wont hurt... I just really think there was something important in the last four pages and it would be prudent for everyone to consider before hammering yo/nuwen!
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Post Post #281 (isolation #40) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:15 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Votecount as of post 278:


Yosariwen:
5
:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light, Apples and Banana,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:
3
:PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Raging Wishbone
Raging Wishbone:
1
:Zmd
Ortohoops:
1
:J-Scope,
Zmd:
1
:Death the Hogfather,

not voting:
1
:Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch
Gah I suck at reading... I missed zaphs vote post on sex ed? I also thought I read zmd voted for hoopla, and I thought Death the hog changed votes?
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Post Post #282 (isolation #41) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Aha I see what happened, the alts are confussing things... Here is the last post I see from DGB/plum or Zaphord Beeblebrox?
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
Unvote; Vote: Apples and Banana

*Plum*
If she voted for SexEd... I can't find it?
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Post Post #284 (isolation #42) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:46 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Nuwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:attempt to prevent the town from lynching further into day 2 noted
Attempt not to answer my question noted! ;)

Why did you write Apple and Bannanas tried to get YoSo modkilled?

UNVOTE: VOTE SEXwithED
Where did this come from? At Raging Wishbone in particular, why do you believe that Shaftsex's online/offline deduction about the modkill question is more likely to come from scum than town?
Read much? Because she blamed Apple and Banana for it. It bothered me, and I am leaving my vote where it is.
Nuwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:Why did SexwithEd claim it was Apples and Bananas? They claim it was because they were the only person online... That is a flat out lie! I was here and saw tons of people on line (in fact I was wondering if they were lurking scum)..
Could you share that list of online players? I'm interested in anyone who is currently actively lurking.
Read much? I have posted the list of players TWICE? Why ask for it when it has been posted?
Nuwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.
I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.
Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?
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Post Post #286 (isolation #43) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Apples and Banana wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Nuwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: Also whoever posted Nuwens aim account was wrong to do so (if I ever want my private im accounts published, I will post them!)...although in this case after playing "war in heaven" with her when she was scum, ti s good thing... her response seemed genuine, I really think she is gonna flip town.
I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.
Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?
What the fuck are you talking about?

I mean, I still support a Yosariwen lynch, but this is ridiculous.

*Nuwen has had her AIM listed in her profile (and so under every one of her posts) for quite some time
*Nuwen talks to her hydra partner, Yos, over AIM
*Yos (presumably) told her sex w/ shafted was claiming she was active lurking
*Nuwen explained in that snippet that Yos posted
*Yos then (presumably) asked Nuwen if he could just copy-paste that directly into the thread

What the hell is so hard to understand?
Town have no reason to lie, scum do! Even little things like this... so she should be lynched why? What the fuck you talking about?
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Post Post #287 (isolation #44) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:03 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

meh, I have been thinking.. I guess you all are right and I am wrong A & B, SexEd, my humble apologies... I give, she can go to L1...

UNVOTE: Vote YosNuwen!


I guess we all get credit for the hammer now. ;)
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Post Post #288 (isolation #45) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:26 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

hmmm... on third thought I am not going to be bullied by A&B, Sexed (...and putting someone at L1) into voting for someone I have a doubt on.... If my partners want to vote for them, I'm with him.

UNVOTE
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Post Post #290 (isolation #46) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:24 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Votecount as of post 278:


Yosariwen:
5
:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Pesco Light, Apples and Banana,
sex w/ shafteds wife club:
3
:PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Raging Wishbone
Raging Wishbone:
1
:Zmd
Ortohoops:
1
:J-Scope,
Zmd:
1
:Death the Hogfather,

not voting:
1
:Yosariwen

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch
Gah I suck at reading... I missed zaphs vote post on sex ed? I also thought I read zmd voted for hoopla, and I thought Death the hog changed votes?
thanks for pointing out my error. ZB's vote was on A&B. I fixed the votecount on this page. Note that I am only counting votes cast by the actual hydra accounts.
I occasionally make mistakes in votecounts, and I depend upon players pointing them out.
Thanks for the help!
Thanks so much for looking at that, I was not reading careful enough but I thought a few things looked odd, lol. I was kinda getting "WISHY-washy" and to be hinest panicing a bit about my vote/unvotes.... I see Death the Hog did not put Yoso/nuwen at l1 (because they did not unvote). Thats my last post, my partner can take it from here....

...and for the record you RAWK Santa Claus, this is a great game. Thx. :)Thanks. :)
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Post Post #295 (isolation #47) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:45 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Yosariwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.
Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?
What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?[/quote]

meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)

VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!
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Post Post #296 (isolation #48) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:48 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.
Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?
What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?
meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)


VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!


ETA: You both infected my tags... gah, lol
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Post Post #298 (isolation #49) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:57 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@ Yoso: There was another game a bunch of the same people here played called "Lovers multi ball".... so you put together a nice AIM log,...well four of our scum posted FAKE daytalk in that game ten times more convincing then what you wrote! They were SleepeyPanda/Armix and the other scum was Neko/Sekinj... Their daytalk was a brilliant attempt, but it was really easy to cut through the BS and end that scum game quick.
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Post Post #299 (isolation #50) » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:09 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Yosariwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: I have my AIM listed in my profile, it's within public knowledge domain. And Yos checked with me.
raging wishbone wrote:
Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first? and he asked your permission? This is a discussion you both had?

...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy? This ties into the lie which originally got you put on the spot. You claimed to have a non existent conversation with Yos regarding crumbtrails. you both contradicted each other... I kinda still think you are a bad lynch but why lie when you don't need to?
What are you talking about, wishbone?

No one contradicted anyone, and no one lied about anything. How can you say "we had a non-existing conversation" when she just posted that conversation in thread? And, when Adel's rules specifically say we can quote whatever we want, what's wrong with quoting something from outside the thread?
meh one more post... Nice tags, you answered none of my questions and now that I know you are at l1 and we can have some fresh eyes read the exchanges from tonight,,, I feel completely confident putting you at l1 (last time I try to see either on your point of views when you cant answer the simplest of questions)

VOTE YOSO/NUWEN!
I didn't "answer your questions" because you're not making any sense!

You asked me "why do we need to lie" when we haven't lied about anything, and you refuse to explain what you're talking about! How the hell am I supposed to "answer that question"? You might as well ask me "Why do you still beat your wife?" and then get angry when I "refuse to answer the question".

Here, I'll "answer your questions":
Oh, right on, so Yos posted it first?
I posted what first?
and he asked your permission?
Yeah, I asked if she would mind me posting that conversation in the thread where she explained her breadcrumb. Why?
This is a discussion you both had?
Yes.
...See he didn't as far as I can read, someone else did, perhaps a scum buddy?
...and here you lose me completly. I did ask her. She said ok. What are you talking about, "a scum buddy"? YOu think a scum buddy asked her if I could post part of her conversation in the thrad? That dosn't make any sense at all, especally since I was just talking to her and I was the one who posted it; how on Earth do you bring someone else into the uestion?

Anyway, what do you mean "he didn't as far as I can read"? I asked her if she minded me posting that line, she didn't mind, so I posted the line. It wasn't the first AIM with her I posted, either. What is so hard to understand about that?
why lie when you don't need to?
No one lied about anything. And I have no idea where you're getting this from, since you refused to answer my questions.


The first person who posted her aim was Adel (our Mod).... I was kinda scared I would get mod killed for pointing it out but now that I know I won't.... It was not you, why did Nuwen answer that question with the implication it was you who first posted it and
she gave you permission to do so
... You did not Adel did, so why did she write that... You know Dude, its all about little lies for no reason...

Also, there is the whole breadcrumbing thing which I think either Hoopla, or someone else caught but they pointed out that you indicated you and Nuwen had talked but Nuwen lied and said you didn't... I might be wrong and it may be vice versa.....

Would I hammer you both now? NO! But I have no problem putting you at l1 after spending half my night defending you and I will let the rest of the town be the judge of this and who we lynch. ;)
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Post Post #347 (isolation #51) » Sat May 02, 2009 10:09 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote: The reasons for your vote on RW isn't incredibly logical if you stop to think about it.
Sure they are.

When RW thought I was going to be lynched without his help, he defended me, trying to position himself so he'd look good when I died.

THen, when hogfather unvoted me and it looked like I might survive, he voted me, to make sure that didn't happen. The reasons for his switch were very weak, and made very little sense.

The whole flip there really looks like a scum manuever.
Ah I see your point upon rereading. I think you're earlier mention you highlighted the reluctance to be the hammer but happy to be the L-1 vote which doesn't make much difference.
This was actually an extremely long exchange which consisted of four pages and I think lasted over six hours and I became extremely sloppy as the night came to an end. I am comfortable with my vote on Yos, even at putting them at L1 and will answer any questions if they flip Town. After putting more thought into the matter I feel it was a good lynch, I began the day defending them because I was not confident that the bread crumbing was enough for them to be wagoned as hard as they were. I wanted to start a discussion which would generate a dilaog to invloved more players and more opinions. I felt the responses on why yoso was the best lynch by other players who added their thoughts seemed reasonable. I was not impressed by Nuwens long post at the end of the evening, I felt thier were contradictions and errors in logic. The im conversation really hit a nerve and reminded me of how in LB, scum used the posting of daytalk to make themselves seem more Townie. Some of the daytalk from the scum teams were the most convincing. After having gone through that extremely long day/night, I felt good about casting my vote. I do believe that is a lynch and we will find out shortly if it was good or not.
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Post Post #356 (isolation #52) » Sat May 02, 2009 11:08 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:
That kicks ass. With an accurate vig/SK around, I'm kinda thinking bussing your last buddy wouldn't be high on the priority list, or at least not an option until he had a decent chance of going down.

Time for rereading!
Nice, well played town! I need to do a reread as well and hopefully RR will have a chance to looke at everything in detail soon.
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Ortohoops wrote:
So, I guess that means Yos didn't use his save on Trotsky for action phase 1. I think normally, before the game, Trotsky would be the sort of player that you'd consider being in the spotlight for a vig/SK kill though, which makes me wonder why, or who Yos would use the save on. Who would be more likely than Trotsky?
I'm guessing that means they have a GF. It'd have to be someone more useful than a Roleblocker.

I'm thinking J-Scope, though possible PoketheAlpaca.

DGB why have you been strangely quiet?
I agree with this, and RR made metnion of it early in the game. She was extremely pro-active in the last two games I played with her and seems active elsewhere on MS, so I am not sure why she is not more involved.

FOS: DGB/Plum


I think Jscope has seemed very involved and very analytical in all their posts. I don't think they have done anything scummy. I am not sure what to think of Poke/Tajo but I also have not gotten any bad vibes from them. I would love to hear more from Poke/Tajo and, expecially DGB/Plum.

I will be back with more thoughts after a full reread and hopefully RR will add his thoughts soon too. I would love to find more links with Trotsky and Yo/Nuwen...
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Post Post #359 (isolation #53) » Sat May 02, 2009 11:43 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:I agree with this, and RR made metnion of it early in the game. She was extremely pro-active in the last two games I played with her and seems active elsewhere on MS, so I am not sure why she is not more involved.
Like I said in the previous post. I'm pretty beat up and I'm scrunched up in my corner licking my wounds.

Anyway. After I gave Yosariwen some headroom to hunt scum, they didn't take the opportunity, but rather dug themselves in the defensive position.

This is what the Yosariwen hydra chose to post:
Yosariwen wrote:Anyway, my main suspect right now is Raging Wishbone. Early on, they were defending me; then all of a sudden they turned around and joined my wagon, for reasons that make absolutly no sense at all. And it's interesting to note that he was not willing to hammer me, but wanted on to the bandwagon when it wasn't a hammer; which just makes it look like he knows the wagon is going to go bad, and dosn't want to take the blame for it.

Vote:Raging wishbone
No natural OMGUS, no outrage at being wagoned unfairly... only a weak case against a single player.

Paradoxically, I agree with Yosariwen's analysis, flavored as it is with distancing, because Raging Wishbone acted exactly the way one would expect scum to react to the Day 1 wagon of a valuable buddy. First defending, then joining for reasons that make no sense, but not willing to hammer.

I would wager that Raging Wishbone is Yosariwen's buddy. Opinions?
Find following my response and feelings on the subject. During the course of the discussion that I instigated because I wanted to be sure this was a good wagon, the one thing Yos wrote several times was just wait Nuwen is going to post later tonight to explain herself. When she finally posted, her post was full of contadiction, bad logic and worst of all was her contrived daytalk. You of all people should have been unnerved by that alone DGB, considering we both played in Lovers multiball together.... He fake IM convo reeked of scum posting something to make themselves look town....
Raging Wishbone wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote: The reasons for your vote on RW isn't incredibly logical if you stop to think about it.
Sure they are.

When RW thought I was going to be lynched without his help, he defended me, trying to position himself so he'd look good when I died.

THen, when hogfather unvoted me and it looked like I might survive, he voted me, to make sure that didn't happen. The reasons for his switch were very weak, and made very little sense.

The whole flip there really looks like a scum manuever.
Ah I see your point upon rereading. I think you're earlier mention you highlighted the reluctance to be the hammer but happy to be the L-1 vote which doesn't make much difference.
This was actually an extremely long exchange which consisted of four pages and I think lasted over six hours and I became extremely sloppy as the night came to an end. I am comfortable with my vote on Yos, even at putting them at L1 and will answer any questions if they flip Town. After putting more thought into the matter I feel it was a good lynch, I began the day defending them because I was not confident that the bread crumbing was enough for them to be wagoned as hard as they were. I wanted to start a discussion which would generate a dilaog to invloved more players and more opinions. I felt the responses on why yoso was the best lynch by other players who added their thoughts seemed reasonable. I was not impressed by Nuwens long post at the end of the evening, I felt thier were contradictions and errors in logic. The im conversation really hit a nerve and reminded me of how in LB, scum used the posting of daytalk to make themselves seem more Townie. Some of the daytalk from the scum teams were the most convincing. After having gone through that extremely long day/night, I felt good about casting my vote. I do believe that is a lynch and we will find out shortly if it was good or not.
Also, if you have four top suspects, why are you trying to build a wagon elsewhere? OMGUS much? Don't you think we would be better served scumhunting among your top supspects?
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: Looking at the wagon, I'd say that:

Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops,
Pesco Light, Raging Wishbone, Zmd

The players in green are almost confirmed town. Those in blue to a lesser extent, it might be last minute desperate distancing/bus'ing.

I'm also nearly certain that there is one scum among the below:
PoketheAlpaca, J-Scope,Death the Hogfather
I am very happy voting for plum/DGb. The same thing can be said for them as far attempting to derail the yos wagon. Yos/Nuwen went back to their daytalk thread along with Plum/DGB, they decided the best way to derail the Yos wagon would be to start one on me, hence Plums long post and subsequent vote for me, follwed by Yos vote. It all seems very calculated and rehearsed in my opinion.

VOTE: Zaphod Beeblebrox
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Post Post #362 (isolation #54) » Sat May 02, 2009 11:57 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:@ RW

I am not trying to start a wagon on you, I asked for other player's opinions for the purpose of discussing.

I don't have "4 top suspects."

What I did is to eliminate players on the wagon that almost certainly town.

Then I think it's likely that one scum is in the red group, and another in the blue group.

Reading is tech.
I am still doing a re-read, I will post more thoughts soonish if I can. Yeah, I apologize you wrote 3 in red, so do you have any kinda case on Death the hog, Jscope, or Tajo/Poker team? I am not seeing anything odd in their posts so far? I need to read Death again, but for some reason I thought he was on the Yo/Nuw wagon? Anyways, I will finish my reread and I would like to talk to my partner when he comes around to hear his thoughts. If you have a case against someone, please post it.
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Post Post #379 (isolation #55) » Sat May 02, 2009 6:43 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

RR here, playing catch-up again.

Nuwen 283, bolding's mine wrote:8:52:11 PM Mercuriala: guh, this sounds like a ringing endorsement for a power role witch hunt, which -seems- like a sub-optimal way to catch scum. But the numbers!
8:52:34 PM ArtherDent: Heh. I'm glad you have a good justification lined up
8:53:41 PM Mercuriala: I tend to have reasons for everything. I probably should have explained myself prior, whoops.
8:53:54 PM ArtherDent: Eh, 's all right.
8:54:47 PM ArtherDent: One suggestion...you may want to sign that post
8:55:11 PM ArtherDent: I'm sure most of them will figure out it's coming from you and not me, but still, we don't need this getting any more confused then it already is, hah
8:55:20 PM Mercuriala: Indeed.
8:56:07 PM Mercuriala: A skimmer like Jdodge might very well latch onto "two conflicting posts OMGOMGOMG" for three plus pages.
8:56:22 PM ArtherDent: Yeah
8:57:08 PM Mercuriala: I am also changing Yosariwen's phpbb style. Do you have any sepia allergies?
8:57:17 PM ArtherDent: Heh. Not to my knowlege
8:59:43 PM Mercuriala: Deep south tends to reward lynching every claimed player.
9:00:00 PM Mercuriala: Just based on the higher 50-50 distribution of open power roles.
9:00:17 PM ArtherDent: Eh; I disagree
9:00:40 PM ArtherDent: Lynching a power role, especally an information role, costs the town so much more then lynching a vanillia does
9:00:59 PM Mercuriala: Yeah, the cost of a mislynch is far higher.
9:01:06 PM Mercuriala: But the chance of it is much lower.
9:01:31 PM ArtherDent: Eh...well, except that if someone is a power role, you can also get infromation from how they use their power role
9:01:42 PM ArtherDent: Not to mention, if they have an info role, you get even more information
9:02:33 PM ArtherDent: Actually, I would tend to lean to the other extreme; in a mafia game like this, the goal of the town is often to get enough information so they can quicklynch everyone who DOSN'T have a confirmable claim or some role-based way of confirming them as town
9:02:46 PM Mercuriala: Consider also the mexican standoff of claims that can happen in a deep south lylo; there are only so many claim/alignment combinations that can explain how actions resolved.
9:03:11 PM Mercuriala: Which is a great place for town to be in.
9:03:24 PM ArtherDent: Very true
9:04:23 PM ArtherDent: Also; let's say you lynch all power roles, town and scum. In that case, you kind of make it into a mountanous game; and town has historically had a very, very bad record in mountanous games
9:05:17 PM Mercuriala: Also true.
Looking at the gaps between the bolded post and the one that came before it, both in timstamp and the complete change of subject, makes me think a part of this conversation's been omitted. Cosidering the use of the phrase "town" as in "they" rather than "us" makes this feel even worse. This post makes me wanna forget about not liking the rest of the case against them and vote Yosariwen.

Walt's being sorta pedantic here, but the guy totally broke Lover's Multiball with this kind of thinking and I'm wiliing to believe he may be onto something here.
Sens wrote:What QT?
Me and Walt set up a QT to communicate when we're not both online. You should do the same if you're town and haven't yet.
Shaft.ed wrote:Someone's not doing their meta homework.
Enlighten me, than. Are you always this nice to people you're about to lynch?
Shaft.ed wrote:Freudian slip? :beardscratch:
Nah, I just fail at English.

Plum wrote:I don't see that; I see FD arguing against basically policy lurker lynchng. I agree that speedlynching lurkes is a bad idea, but I'm not letting the lurkers of the hook: lurking, especially active lurking/posting without much actual content will be weighted as a BIG scumtell in my books. Nvertheless, I think the first part of your attack on FD here is a misrepresentation, as Ortohoops' plan was not perfect; parts were not even good ideas to implement, and I don't see FD's arguments against it as actually translating into wanting to slow the game down, as you say. FOS Raging Wishbone.
I think if you read between FD's lines you should easily be able to tell that they want the game slowed down to an extent I (and orthoops) find very dangerous.
Plum wrote:You're trusting your partner's judgement on two players you think may be town? No strong scum reads? Get some and grow a spine while you're at it, please; if you think someone is scum, don't sit with your vote on him or her.
Don't see what's wrong in waitiing for a second opinion from someone you know is town before voting if you're not completely sure.
Plum wrote:Sudden, unexpected, unexplaianed switch from 'Yosariwen is prob town' to 'I'm putting Yosariwen at L-1 because suddenly I decided I needed to lick everyone's boots'? DIE SCUM DIE.

Unvote; Vote: Raging Wishbone

Ugh, and then you go back on yourself aagin? *is going to be bald at this rate of hair-pulling*

And then you vote again because apparently Nuwen didn't answer certain of your questions except I can't see where any questions you've asked have made any sense? *goes to pull out her sister's hair*
I don't think I should be answering this for Walt, since I don't know what was going through his mind at the time, but I don't see how changing his mind there proves him to be conformist scum. Don't you think he'd be calling for a hammer if his only wish was to please you guys?




I typed this post yesterday evening and was stopped short in my attempt to finally catch up by a few posts. Just came back and saw Yos flipped scum. I'll post this part in itself than keep going with this new knowledge in mind.
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Post Post #380 (isolation #56) » Sat May 02, 2009 7:43 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Strongly disagree with this.
FoS: Ragin'
The "arguing against Ortohoops plan" is not necessarily true, is an easy target and you don't go into detail. What specifically do you find pro-town about Yoswen also??? Never mind, you later clarify the second part.
You missed the part about him having been sorta useless early on, then improving drastically immediatly after hoopla suggested lynching the useless people, despite disagreeing with this.
Frog Dodging wrote:Similar sort of argument - it's just unnatural scum play - and it turned out to be 100% utterly wrong. Oman was scum who only really got lynched through an unfortunate process of elimination.
So? Just because the person happened to be scum in that case (and, in hindsight, here) doesn't mean the point doesn't still apply. Bad plays for both scum and town aren't scum tells, and given time I don't feel like spending I could easily dig up at least 4 counter-examples of the opposite happening (townies being lynched for general bad play).
Frog Dodging wrote:What I have learnt is that one of the cornerstones of scum play is to do something unusual, take a stance that is unpopular, move in ways town do not expect you to go - and then town write you off because, well, "scum would never do that." I realise the analogies are not perfect, but the underlying principle - beware the unexpected - remains the same.
The above still stands, but note that I never said this was in any way a scumtell.
Frog Dodging wrote:Yos is also, now, not reading the game thoroughly. He claims there was no contradiction - proving that he has not read J-scope's post, where he points out a contradiction. If he were aware of even an alleged contradiction, then he would not act so affronted when it is referenced by Hogfather.

He also claimed there was no non-crumb case against him - when we had already bought up a couple points against them which do not rely at all on the crumb post. Again, his reaction indicates he hasn't even seen this post by us. Which is extremely worrying - it really, really worries me when a player under this much pressure is only skimming the game. I have only my own experience on this (not even my partner's, who I cannot consult at the moment - he'll be back tomorrow) but people who skim the game like that, who aren't really aware of what is actually being said, are so often scum. I know for a fact that when I'm feeling lazy as scum I do this. If you don't actually care about who scum is - seeing as you already know - it becomes almost irrelevant what people are actually saying. You just need to read enough to give the illusion of scumhunting.
I think Yos fully explained the contradiction thing, in a way that also happened to be the truth - the most likely sequence of events is indeed that Nuwen screwed up and posted the crumbs, then Yos told her off on aim and explained why this type of thinking won't seem protown. Not sure what J-scope post you're talking about. I also don't recall any point being made against Yosariwen that wasn't related to either the crumbing or their reaction to being attacked for it. This is why I thought the case was weak, until the aim conversation started giving me the shivers. Can you point me to the post where you attack them for points not related to crumbing?
Frog Dodging wrote:Raging Rabbit - If you continue to insinuate that I am scum simply because I am disagreeing with you, then there's really no point in arguing. I'm not going to waste time trying to convince a player who is clearly so motivated by his ideology that he can't even consider that town could have a differing opinion than him.
That's not all there was to it. See above. Also, for the record, I think your approach to Yos makes you more likely town and don't suspect you that much any longer.
Frog Dodging wrote:Do you see what I mean? The idea of lynching lurkers days 1 and 2 etc make it even worse - it's so easy for scum to just push the attention off their partners when they get in trouble but push any townie wagons - and because we need to lynch quickly, we go after the easy lynches, and because we're lynching quickly and we're rushing, we never have the opportunity to go back and spot these connections after all. Personally, I would prefer one informed lynch a day to two rushed lynches a day.
Untrue. Maybe two lynches a "day" would be more rush (though I'd never suggested we'd deteriorate to being as idiotic as your example suggested), but it'll also
double the amount of town kills
. It's clearly worth it.

FD quotes the post I was asking about above in 334.


332 Yos tags an easy vote on us for the Walt changing his mind thing. I still think he probably has a reasonable explanation for this.
Yos is also not his usual self. I would expect yos to be slightly more angry at this point in his wagon rather than conciliatory. I would also have expected him to start scumhunting by now rather than questioning people. I would definitely expect him to have called out the lurkers, and I would definitely expect him to be more actively involved in the game rather than just sitting around asking questions. It's no good asking questions if you don't respond to the answers.
I think the only thing it's worrying he didn't comment about is the lack of scumhunting, which was a good point I should've noticed.
Zmd wrote:Because scum never vote their buddies in the RVS, right?
Dude. Joke.
sex club wrote:There's been no scum kill today. With the amount of time Yos was at L-1 it would have been a twofer for scum to kill someone and thus force a mis-lynch. On the other hand, if Yos was scum, HAD they killed they would have sacrificed one of their own in order to land a kill during the day. This would have been avoided had a bus'ing partner recused themselves from voting Yos. Addin in the pickle the scum were in due to losing a RB day one, I am guessing that if Yos flips scum his wagon almost has to be pure town. Making his the non-Yos voters the remaining place to look for scum.
I'm not sure the twilight is gonna stop scum from killing in the second action block, but if it will yay town. Other than that you're totally right.


In 347 Walt explains himself very well, as I thought he would.


Got to page 15 and I got to go again. I seriously hope I'll manage to finish catching up later today.
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Post Post #383 (isolation #57) » Sat May 02, 2009 10:16 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

DGB wrote:Paradoxically, I agree with Yosariwen's analysis, flavored as it is with distancing, because Raging Wishbone acted exactly the way one would expect scum to react to the Day 1 wagon of a valuable buddy. First defending, then joining for reasons that make no sense, but not willing to hammer.

I would wager that Raging Wishbone is Yosariwen's buddy. Opinions?
Why would Yos' buddy add his vote to put Yos at L-1, but specifically go out of his way to mention he isn't willing to hammer? Someone else will hammer instead, he's done his share towards killing his only remaining teammate, and to bus gains less pro town points because of the not willing to hammer bit. Saying that but still voting him doesn't protect Yos one bit. This makes no sense at all.

So you're saying you've slowed down your activity drastically sitewide? Can someone here confirm this?
Walt wrote:Her (Nuwen's) fake IM convo reeked of scum posting something to make themselves look town....
Actually, I'm pretty sure the convo wasn't fake, just rather obvisouly omitted. Why other people analyzing that failed to note the strange gap in timestamp and subject, I've no idea.
DGB wrote:Then I think it's likely that one scum is in the red group, and another in the blue group.
That both isn't what you said before and makes no sense since we know for a fact there's 3 scum.
FOS Zaphod
.
Frog Dodging wrote:Flavour reveals the dead, specifically, as Armenian Mafia. We know we have two killing groups. What are the odds that there are two scumgroups? I know two scumgroups is always tight in a game this size, but it's a possibility.
I distinctly remember Adel saying that the setup in both games will be a 3 person scumgroup + either SK or compulsive vig. Therefore, no second scumgroup. I guess the Armenian thing is just a joke.
DEATH wrote:Definitely not complaining about that. 2 scum down, one to go (plus possibly an SK). I am sorta disappointed about not getting on to hammer earlier today as I planned to. Meh.

Alright, I like DGB/Plum as town personally. I don't think Trotsky would have made it that easy for us.

@Frog: 0% chance of a second scumgroup according to the first post.

@all: I pretty much agree completely on the Raging Wishbone being scum thing. They need to die ASAP. Sorry I don't have more to add at the moment. I'm working on getting into this game, but its somewhat difficult.

-goes off to shoot hydra partner who seems to have disappeared-

vote: Raging Wishbone
Talk about scummy... I don't even feel the need to really explain this.
Zaphod wrote:Looking at PescoLight, RagingWishbone and Zmd, I'd say that both PescoLight and Zmd were the most convincing scum hunters. But I'm not sure how reliable my scumdar is these days.
That's absurd, Zmd's done close to nothing the whole game.
sex club wrote:DGBPlum: HAve you ever read a game with DBGscum and daytalking. It's her favorite. She wouldn't be participating this little IMHO. least likely
Excellent point, though she's crafty enough to be doing this to dodge her own meta. Again, I'd be interested to know if this lack of interest is site-wide.

Poker wrote:Anyone else besides me think this doesn't make alot of sence. You don't want hammer but you want to vote and or lynch them?
No, this doesn't make sense. And no, that doesn't make it a scumtell.
I wrote:The above still stands, but note that I never said this was in any way a scumtell.
And my scumtell, I meant towntell. Though it's really not both.
Sens wrote:3) Mind posting a screenshot of an earlier segment of the QT? Preferably one where you're discussing who you think is Scum. Also nice to be included would be the title of the QT. (Obviously, crop/blur out the url.)
I'm not sure Adel will be ok with this, nor do I think my fucekd up computer is capable of taking screenshots. Otherwise, fine.
Mod
, is this allowed?
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Post Post #385 (isolation #58) » Sat May 02, 2009 10:38 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Remaining players:

1. Zaphod Beeblebrox - definitely scummy, but sex club's point on DGB's meta makes me wanna rethink.
Sex club
, does the vote you just put on Zaphod means you no longer think that point valid, or was it just the other half of the hydra (I'd guess elvis) posting?

2. Apples and Banana - I'm a bit uncomfortable with them, but they did play a part in Yoswagon. Possibly SK.

3. Zmd - completely useless, and I think the hammer on Yos was weakly reasoned and could've easily been a bus, as it was rather obvious he was getting lynched at that point. Definitely lynch-worthy.

5. Death the Hogfather - extreme lurkage. votes Yos for "contradiction", waits for his response then goes "oh, that makes sense! you must be town then!" and voted Zmd. Then posts after the lynch, saying he's sorry he couldn't hammer 'cause he sure was planning to, that he "definitely isn't complaining" about two scum being down, and that he agrees with "all" about me and walt being scum, and we therefore need to die aspap. No further explanation whatsoever. This is probably because he's scum.

8. Ortohoops - almost definitely town.

9. sex w/ shafteds wife club - almost definitely town.

10. PoketheAlpaca - not active enough, especially around the Yos wagon. I don't really like Poker catch-up post, either. Could easily be the remaining scumbuddy, but for now there are better candidates around.

11. nyballosulgniirkps Pesco Light - least close to confirmed not-mafia of all early Yos voters, but still probably not mafia. Possibly sk, if we have one.

13. J-Scope - reading sorta neutral, I find myself not remembering much of what they did here. Could be Jahudo flying under the radar as GF again, though if I understood correctly only 'scope is posting at the moment. Could you confirm this, J-scope?

14. Frog Dodging - I'd say definitely not scum with Yos, but could still be SK.



My coclusion is to lynch Death asap and think about the others later.
Vote: Death the Hogfather.
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Post Post #386 (isolation #59) » Sat May 02, 2009 10:39 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Yeah, gathered as much. We talk about beta as well there, so that can't be done. I could paraphrase our talk on alpha, though.
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Post Post #394 (isolation #60) » Sun May 03, 2009 3:34 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:...This was a crappy reason. What a good way to make your scumbuddy look good when you flip scum.
Right, 'cause Yos would be this obvious... I don't think he expected to be lynched, so he could've just been trying to push the wagon that seemed second strongest. If he had post-mortem in mind, I doubt he'd suck that much at "making me look good" unless he wanted people to think I was his scumbuddy.
ortolan wrote:Repeat after me. W-I-F-O-M.

...Anyway why would a townie care whether they were the L-1 or the L vote on a wagon? Why would you comment on it to begin with?
No, you repeat after me.
Plays that are bad for any alingment aren't scumtells
. Why would town do this? No idea. Why would scum do this? No idea. Why is scum more likely to do this than town, then? They aren't.
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Post Post #395 (isolation #61) » Sun May 03, 2009 3:37 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Jahudo wrote: It’s much more J than Scope actually. Do you think I am flying under the radar? When have I flew under the radar as GF?
I don't necassarily think you're doing that intentionally, but it strikes me as odd that I can barely remember any of your actions thus far.

Forgot about Boost this soon?
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Post Post #397 (isolation #62) » Sun May 03, 2009 3:45 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

I think I'm gonna let Walt answer this one, since I wasn't.
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Post Post #399 (isolation #63) » Sun May 03, 2009 4:23 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

pta wrote:And yes I would call it a scum tell. You didn't seem fully into your suspicions like they were false or you knew yoswen was scum but were afraid to bus. Basically you didn't seem all that confident in your position. You have had alot of wishywashyness and flops on people.
1. That post was by me (RR), while the play questioned was Walt's. I can't explain a thought proccess that isn't mine, but I wanted to point out scum had no reason to do this.
2. Let's forget for a second that wishywashyness is in general a scumtell. In this particurlar instance, why would scum Walt go out of his way to mention he doesn't want to hammer when putting a L-1 vote on his buddy? What does he stand to gain from this? This play makes the same amount of sense for scum as it does for scum, which is why it's a null tell.
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Post Post #425 (isolation #64) » Sun May 03, 2009 7:31 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Death's at L-1 and should be hammered, if he had a claim that makes any difference he wouldn't have given up on the game like he did.

Frog Dodging wrote:I'm... hrm. The more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I get with the idea of lynching Raging Wishbone. Yosarian is an experienced player. He knows what people look for, surely he must have known that last minute distancing like that would be very, very unlikely to clear RW. At best, people would discount it, at worst, they would go after him. Like they are doing. Now, I know this is massively speculative, but... what if Yos looked at RW's play and decided to leave a connection to him? I've done that before as scum - deliberately tried to connect myself to a town player by pretending to bus him.

RW is a bit weird. It's really hard to follow the train of their thoughts, since they're playing in a way that goes to neither extreme - they're not signing their posts and they're not playing it as if they were one player (each of them posting different thoughts) so it's a little tricky to work out what's going on. However, there is one thing that bugs me. One half of the hydra thought that Yos was pro-town - fair enough. One half keeps saying that he has no read on Yos and he'll vote for him if the other partner agrees. Do you see the issue here? Why would one half think the other half would want to vote yosariwen when that other half thinks yosariwen is town?
Your first paragraph is right on target.

I always thought telling our styles apart was rather easy, but I don't mind signing my posts from now on. Most of my posts either mention I'm RR or talk about Walt in third person anyways.

Regarding the question, Walt knew I was behind at catching up and thought I could easily change my opinion, or if I won't at least explain to him why I think the case doesn't apply.



Now, people seem to regard Walt's flip flop as either a very scummy or very moronic stretch. I think you need to understand that the guy has an unfortunate tendency, which I hope will stop now, to stay online for really long periods of time in the middle of the night while under the influence. That accounts for his weird behavior on two occasions here. I think if you reread these parts in the context of the explanations he later provided, you'll see his thought process might've been weird, but definitely wasn't scummy. Also, people seem to be looking down on the guy. They shouldn't. He has amazing instincts and I already saw him break one game basically on his own.


Yours truely, hammer Death already,
-RR
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Post Post #437 (isolation #65) » Mon May 04, 2009 1:58 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

SL/Kison wrote:This is pinging very much, I'm rescinding anything I said about not lynching Raging Wishbone. The post is highly manipulative and the mafia equivalent of the partner who introduce you to his retarded little brother to make you feel horrible just when you were going to dump their ass.

It hits all the right buttons but it is nonetheless in essence nothing more than an apology letter on Wishbone behalf, and I think it's too overdone for town.
Pure bullshit. This isn't an apology letter, this is a simple explanation of the circumstance behind Walt's odd stretch of posts that made people suspect us. I'm not breaking up with anyone, and Walt isn't my "retarted little brother". I'm happy to be paired up with him, and if anything is manipulated and overdone it's your post.



FD was right to claim when he did, though it's unfortunate that sex club turned out vig. Since there's no mafia tracker, we can bascially consider him confirmed town.

Death should still be hammered.
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Post Post #439 (isolation #66) » Mon May 04, 2009 5:59 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Frog Dodging wrote:Pokethealpaca is dead. This causes me and my partner at once an issue and an opportunity.

The issue is that we have to claim, and at the same time potentially out a very pozerful town role. But we can't afford to not out them - in this setup, we could die at any time and our info go buried to the grave. And there's a strong chance we have scum nailed.

We are a tracker, and we tracked a player, this action phase, to pokethealpaca. We both agreedd that if pta turned up dead, we would have to out them. They could either be mafia, SK or compulsive vig. We don't really want the compulsive vig outed, especially after they've nailed a scumbag for us, but if it's an SK instead there's a strong chance that they never claim and just stay under the radar for the whole game - after all, an S is not going to claim a role that gives them a 50% chance of being scum!

The player we tracked was swswc based on our early suspicions of them after the incam kill. Either they'll confim our claim or they'll deny it - if they deny it, we lynch them, since you know either us or them must be scum, and since we would not be so foolish as set ourselves up for a lynch as individual scum, you can know it is them who is lying. If they confirm it, then they must be mlynched at some point. There's really no point letting them survive till the endgame where they could potentially steal it from town.
Nice job, although this unfortunately is sure to get you killed soonish. If scum used their kill on SWSEW we only have a few days til the next action phase. Did you track anybody during the first action phase? What are your thoughts on who we should lynch next?
Ortohoops wrote:
I'm prepared to hammer Hogfather now if we can have a wagon on Zaphod for our next lynch. I think she was very obvious in her methods of trying to slow down Yosariwen's lynch and place attention elsewhere.

I really don't know why she hasn't garnered more suspicion.
I agree with this completely and actually now I am afraid we are running out of time. I think we should pick up the pace as we are sure to lose FrogDodge at the start of the next action pahse.

As far as a revised list of reads, here would be my lynching order...

Death the Hog: I don't understand why they are not fighting to stay in this
game unless as dgb/plum pointed out, they realize they have been caught and our outnumbered. Perhaps they realized that it was Yos/Nuwen's intense argument that sealed their lynch? Perhaps they decided to take a different route and not get pulled into an argument that could dig them a deeper hole? Combined with their active lurking, and unvote on yos/nuwen they are the best lynch.

Dgb/Plum: I am unsettled by their attempts to slow down the game and derail the yos wagon as well.

I'm hoping by this point the game is over but...

JScope: I have gotten nothing but town vibes, I will reread them in isolation if Death does not flip scum.

ZMD: Active lurker, voted yos without much of an explanation. I need to reread them as well.

Nyballs: Good posts after taking over for Pesco, I have a neutral read on them.

Apples and Bannas: I am not sure I understand NYballs argument against them possibly bussing. Nutral to town read on them.

Hoops: Protown read.

FrogDodgin: ObvTown

My thought haven't change a lot however there are a few things I am questioning now. The main thing Is I feel we need to pick up the speed before something happens to Frog Dodge. I hope somebody hammers Death as soon as possible. - WW
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Post Post #445 (isolation #67) » Mon May 04, 2009 7:12 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Apples and Banana wrote:
Frog Dodging wrote:
Apples and Banana wrote:Frog, have you submitted that choice?
Yes. Why do you ask?
Well, before I answer that question:

Since we're hunting for a single Scum, should we mass-claim and see if we have a forced win?
I wouldnt be oppossed to claiming, I'm not sure what my partner will say. I can think of a reason why it would be prudent to keep one of our power roles hidden, if we have this role... What do you mean by forced win? - ww
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Post Post #447 (isolation #68) » Mon May 04, 2009 8:04 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

I'm pretty sure it won't lead to a forced win. Basically the downside is that it'll flush out any remaining power roles we may not know about, and the upside is that it'll reduce by far the chance of a successful fakelaim. I tend to slightly favor going forward with it, but really don't mind going with whatever the majority decides here.
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Post Post #449 (isolation #69) » Mon May 04, 2009 8:14 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

What makes you think we have so many power roles other than vig and two trackers?
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Post Post #460 (isolation #70) » Mon May 04, 2009 10:50 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

nyballosulgniirkps wrote:
Apples and Banana wrote:Stuff in post #455
Actually, point taken. I thought the mod said at least 3 scum, but you are right, it's 3 scum.

Still, doc (if they exists) should protect Jdodge, because he is more confirmed than Apples.
Yeah, I am pretty positive we only have one scum left. I agree Doc should protect frogdodge, however I have been rereading what Apples and Bananas wrote...
Apples and Banana wrote:
nyballosulgniirkps wrote:Still, doc (if they exists) should protect Jdodge, because he is more confirmed than Apples.
While that's true, do me a favour and explain why the last Scum would fakeclaim Tracker, with no pressure, with so many people alive.

I think the Doc, if any, or Watcher (if there can be one, I don't remember) should claim, to draw the next kill, and RANDOMLY pick one of us using random.org.
I am not so sure if we have a Doc he should claim yet, I'd like to hear some other thoughts.

Sorry I am sort of thinking/posting out loud.

I have quick question for anyone, if Apples and Bananas as well as FrogDodge are both trackers can't they watch each other? Doesnt that mean scum can't kill either without being caught. OR...

... I think I understand what you mean now Apples and Bananas about a forced win. If we have a doc we have him protect FrogDodge, FrogDoge watches you, you watch the doc. There is no way we can get to end game without two townies.

OF course again, that is assuming we all agree we understan the rules correctly and there is only one more scum. Also that we agree there have been far too few kills for there to be an additional SK or Vig.

I have never played Deep South or in a setup as complicated as this so I apologize if it's obvious. Anywyas, I am leaning towards a claim, however I would like to hear what everyone else thinks and assuming of course this game is not over with the Death the hog lynch.
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Post Post #474 (isolation #71) » Mon May 04, 2009 8:34 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

I'm vanilla.

Sens should claim results, no reason whatsoever to wait on this.

We have 1 scum remaining out of 7 people, none of which, correct me if I'm wrong here, are widely seen as town. So it's not as obv-win as it was before, but one benefit of this is scum can't kill without narrowing our suspect pool. Still, it's better if we take the initiative of choosing who to kill rather than the scum, so speed is still of the essence here.

My top two suspects are Zaphod and Zmd, and I think I'm leaning Zmd now. He's been actively lurking the entire game, hammered Yos after he became an obv lynch, and keeps coming up with these entirely arbitrary scumlists that prove he isn't actually trying to find scum. For one thing, me and Walt have been his top suspect for a while now, but none of his "list updates" change our score or say hardly anything about our recent posting. I don't see a townie letting his top suspect just sit there at the top of the list without further attacks/analysis. He's just comfortable voting for the guy he thinks would be a likely mislynch.

Vote Zmd.


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Post Post #476 (isolation #72) » Mon May 04, 2009 10:15 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:I was actually incorrect about there being more unattributed kills.

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but the scum don't get to make another kill for a few days?

If we can get a consensus of most scummy to least scummy then we can just quicklynch down the list repeatedly. As long as the scum are in the first five and we do this before the next action phase starts we auto-win. How does this sound to people?
Yeah, they don't get another kill 'till the next action phase. And that sounds too risky. I think we can afford letting the scum choose one more kill in favor of more in depth discussion rather than just loads of quicklynching based on an arbitrary list, especially since we have no one even close to being confirmed at this point.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #73) » Wed May 06, 2009 3:56 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

I am gonna hold off voting until I have a chance to speak with my partner and Apples and Bananas posts what he has on ZMD. I do think they have made their way through the game; lurking for the most part and only posting to keep up appeareances. I am gonna go back and reread FrogDodge in isolation because I want to see if the following post indicates ZMD was one of his top suspects...
Frog Dodging wrote:Action Phase 1 we tracked Yosariwen, who strangely enough we got no result on. Also, I've discussed this with my partner and we've realized there's almost no downside to claiming who we're going to track next. ZMD, if you are a non-doc power role, do not target us. If you're scum and you target us, there's a good chance we'll see you.

Also, reduce the suspect pool etc. etc.
Vote Death the Hogfather
ciao!
After that, I would as well consider a vote for Zaphod pending a discussion with my partner.

@Apples and Bananas - Please post what you know soon; I believe a new action period begins tomorrow. - ww
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Post Post #488 (isolation #74) » Wed May 06, 2009 7:25 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

determined by voting does not equal arbitrary, certainly not more than any other method we could use of deciding who to lynch.

and correct me if I'm wrong here, but logically, and mathematically, just waiting for the scum to make more kills does not appear to stand us in better stead.

It seems there can only be one scumbag left, as implied by the mod's opening post (the mafia faction is three player, there cannot be an SK as there was a compulsive vig, and there were in fact no kills to account for another killing faction. We can kill everyone up until there's only 2 people left alive, in which case the scum, if still alive, will endgame the townie.

If we lynch down the suspects list at present, we have 5/7 of a chance of hitting scum based on random lynching (I would hope town skill would raise this probability). If, however, we wait for the scum to make another kill the chance then becomes only 4/6, or 2/3. One scum night-kill later and it's 3/5. Thus it is better to start lynching down the list sooner rather than later. Does anyone have any issues with this probabilistic reasoning?

Now I acknowledge that if some people don't post in a while there may be practical issues with this quicklynching process- if for example a new action phase begins when we're in the middle of lynching. This is why for pragmatic reasons we may to need to wait until the next action phase to start doing it, in which case it will only yield 4/6, or 2/3 of working. However this probability is still better than 3/5.

Additionally I don't see how waiting for the scum to make another night-kill is going to help us determine who they are in this setup. They will presumably pick targets to best WIFOM us/give us no information.
In a purely mathematical way, you're right, but you aren't taking into account the effect good scumhunting has on the probability of lyncing scum. If you make a list and just lynch down it, maybe the first to lynches will reflect our opinion on the game, but the next ones will both be based on a rather arbitrary ranking of "who I think is more town than who", and won't take into account the results of the previous lynchings we just made. I'm very afraid of the 2/7 chance the scum we choose will be one of the last two on the list (I also think it's very likely we won't get all the lynches done in time before the next action phase - especially if you take twilights into account, meaning if the scum is placed third on the list he could easily be able to pull off a win as well, so it effectively becomes more like 3/7, or almost 50%) and we'll just blindly hand him the victory. I'd rather hurt our odds a little bit in the eyes of blind probability in favor of thinking more before every lynch. Again, that's not to say we shouldn't be in a hurry, I think this game should be over before scum manages to squeeze in more than one kill, or two at the very worst.


In accordance with my earlier vote that wasn't counted due to twilight,
vote Zmd
.

-RR
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Post Post #494 (isolation #75) » Wed May 06, 2009 6:46 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Me and my partner are in two different parts of the world and we have not been able to have too many discussions other than leaving notes, however, at this time I am going too...

unvote: ZMD


I thought Zmd's post seemed geniuine and sincere. I think the discussion between these two and the specific comment of A & B's claim on ZMD is an important discussion to be had.

@Apples and Bananas - Please post what you have on ZMD ASAP! Also please post who you have tracked so far this game... Dude you are posting in other threads, however this is the one where time is of the essence! Scum get another kill at some point today. Please post your thoughts and dont try and slow this game down.

FOS: Apples and Bananas


@Zaphod - I have thought long and hard about this ever since DGB wrote that she is thinking of leaving mafiascum because of games... I don't know you that well, but you have played in my last two games Lovermultiball which was four months and War In Heaven which was two months, and I really enjoyed playing with you. I have been wishy-washy about your alignment in this game, BUT...

If you say the reason you are going to leave mafiascum is because you get accused of being scum when you are town.... Well then I would rather let you win then not be able to play with you again.

If we all do decide to play the take the two most Townies to end game... I wanna give Zaphod a free pass there win or lose... I mean come on does anyone else want to see her leave Mafiascum? Even if we lose we will win because she will stay right? meh, she gets to sleep with herself at night winning this way.

@Hoops - You are too town right now in everyones opinion - One of two things is gonna happen next - you are gonna be scums next kill or you are scum... So please make all your final thoughts known asap. I have thought you are town the entire game except that one post "with novacaine"... my partner I think does have some concerns about your alignment.

Before ZMD and Apples and Banana have their conversation these are the three players I think should go to end game (Hoops, Zaphod, and either ZMD or Apples and Banana after they have their discussion and we figure out which one lied)

THIS GAME HAS SLOWED way to much, in my humble opinion! Lets please pick up the pace. - ww
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Post Post #496 (isolation #76) » Wed May 06, 2009 7:17 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:SensFan has been posting elsewhere without posting in this game (something which would require one minute simply to tell us exactly what his results are).

His question to Zmd about night one actions makes no sense- Zmd claimed vanilla, he cannot have a night action on any night, if he claimed to be a vanilla and SensFan had an action on any night there
could not
be any other conclusion than that Zmd was scum.

xofelf has also been posting elsewhere on site.

I am about to vote for Apples & Bananas.
Absolutely agreed, Apples and Bananas made that post for a reason... To me it read like he had an Epiphany (or maybe trying a gambit) and was gonna nail ZMD's balls to the wall and blow this game apart... Regardless, they know our time constictions, they know and we all know they will be lynched next if they are not scum, so why not post here and help us end this game! Why not give us the reads and their tracks because maybe one of us can spot something they have missed... Mostly, I want to see the ZMD v Appleas and Banana discussion because I think it will be enlighting.

I'm not ready to sink one of our power roles if we have one (3 trackers?)..

@A & B - why did you spell trackers - trakcers each time?

@Zmd - Why do you think FrogDodge said he was going to track you next? Why did he die mere hours after he wrote that?

....A & B is pissing me off! I aint gonna vote for him, but I really would like to hear his thoughts soon. - ww
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Post Post #498 (isolation #77) » Wed May 06, 2009 7:39 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:It's kind of ironic this coincides with him talking in Mafia Discussion about how he likes to fake V/LA :D
hmmm... *goes to read* lol
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Post Post #499 (isolation #78) » Wed May 06, 2009 7:56 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

That's actually a great thread on Ethics, thanks for pointing that out. I will post there after this game is over...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3&start=75

Although to my memory I don't think anyone from the Apples and Banana team said they would have limited access... Again SensFan has been all over this sight today/toinight. I don't think they have an ethics problem per say, I think they may just be scum...

If Zaphod wins as scum I would have a serious Ethics question...but on the otherhand as long as she doens't leave mafiascum who cares, tis just a game. She is a sweety and fun to play with!

Jscope - one of them said they were having vla too...but I have nothing but town reads on them... Meh, they die around the same time as me and RR is we policy lynch anyway, so who cares, lol....

...Damn A & B hopefully will post soon to clear thinga up... I mean there is no semantics error in his post right? He asked a question of ZMD which implied ZMD lied? Therefore, one of them is lying?
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Post Post #502 (isolation #79) » Wed May 06, 2009 8:24 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zmd wrote:I believe I'm at L-1 btw.
Sorry ZMD one more question to throw your way. If you have studied and read and paid attention enough to this thread as you claim...considering twilight lasted only about 20 hours and consisted of 10 to 15 posts. Why did you think you were at L1 Bro?

You weren't, you only had two votes on you! Why write I believe rather then go back and check to make sure you are at L1 before making an elaborate post condeming several players and "warning" everyone not to vote for you because you were at L1 and in essence, implying that they would be hammering you?

You went after A & B pretty hard, but you didin't even know that you were NOT at L1?

Please let me know yor thoughts, thanks. :)
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Post Post #503 (isolation #80) » Wed May 06, 2009 8:26 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:and I didn't mean they said they'd be on V/LA, I just found it ironic they were busy discussing ethics of lurking/faking V/LA
while
they are apparently lurking in this game.

Vote: Apples & Bananas


We're still waiting...
It's an awesome catch and great thread... I Cant vote for them though yet. I really want to hear my partners thoughts on the discussion tonight first.
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Post Post #505 (isolation #81) » Thu May 07, 2009 1:47 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Apples and Banana wrote:Ummmm....that thread was irrelevant. I never said I'd be V/LA here, I've just been quite busy. And the fact xofelf is posting is completely irrelevant, she hasn't posted here YET.

I tracked ZMD for the first phase, he didn't target anyone.
My other targets are all dead, unfortunately.
I told you, I crumbed Tracker with the blatant misspelling EVERY time I used the word.
I find it ridiculous people somehow think I bussed my last buddy with 8ish Town (and another killer) alive, then fakeclaimed a role that's basically impossible to fake for any length of time.
Sorry you confussed me a bit... You wrote this...
SensFan wrote:Wait...ZMD...did you say you didn't target
anyone
Day 1?
Can you please elaborate a bit? Thi sseems like an epiphany on ZMD! Who did you target the second pahse? Who are you targeting now?
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Post Post #506 (isolation #82) » Thu May 07, 2009 1:54 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP

Raging Wishbone wrote:
Apples and Banana wrote:Ummmm....that thread was irrelevant. I never said I'd be V/LA here, I've just been quite busy. And the fact xofelf is posting is completely irrelevant, she hasn't posted here YET.

I tracked ZMD for the first phase, he didn't target anyone.
My other targets are all dead, unfortunately.
I told you, I crumbed Tracker with the blatant misspelling EVERY time I used the word.
I find it ridiculous people somehow think I bussed my last buddy with 8ish Town (and another killer) alive, then fakeclaimed a role that's basically impossible to fake for any length of time.
Sorry you confussed me a bit... You wrote this...
SensFan wrote:Wait...ZMD...did you say you didn't target
anyone
Day 1?
Can you please elaborate a bit? This seems like an epiphany on ZMD! Who did you target the second pahse? Who are you targeting now?
Edit: I would like to know who you targeted "dead or alive" but again the most important questions is your "epiphany" on ZMD, in my opinion. :)
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Post Post #523 (isolation #83) » Thu May 07, 2009 5:34 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zmd wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote: So let's get lynching. We are confirmed town. A&B is likely town. Ortohoops is likely town. Let's lynch RW, JScope, Zaph, and nyball in that order. If we do it quickly enough, it's probably a win.
You are being sarcastic right? You are not confirmed town, lol, we have a third scum who could have submitted one of the two kills. We don't know Apples and Banana really is a tracker and actually watched you phase one... If it come down to a quick lynch, ZMD you are and have been on the top of the list, imo.
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Post Post #524 (isolation #84) » Thu May 07, 2009 5:35 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP

Zmd wrote: So let's get lynching. We are confirmed town. A&B is likely town. Ortohoops is likely town. Let's lynch RW, JScope, Zaph, and nyball in that order. If we do it quickly enough, it's probably a win.
You are being sarcastic right? You are not confirmed town, lol, we have a third scum who could have submitted one of the two kills. We don't know Apples and Banana really is a tracker and actually watched you phase one... If it come down to a quick lynch, ZMD you are and have been on the top of the list, imo.
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Post Post #544 (isolation #85) » Fri May 08, 2009 10:23 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

nyballosulgniirkps wrote:Orthoo, do you actually have a point or are you just hoping to drag the day down with that discussion?

I think Sensfan is acting antitown with his obtuse and unexplained vote but I don't think he is scum for it. If anything it looks like blue defensiveness.


Now, guys, 2 scum down, 1 to go, not the moment to falter now. Make. Lynches. Happen. I think the chance of losing this one are low.

VOTE ZMD
Actually, I like Apples and Banana's post - I'm not sure if he really is a tracker or not, but he puts the scum in an extremely precarious postion. Scum don't know if he lied or not and is targeting Hoops, so they really cant' afford to kill anyone other than Apples and Banana without getting caught. They could make this play, "not kill anyone this action period" letting us suspect Hoops and Apples and Banana - (imo, two of our most townie players)... That is kinda a win for us, if we dont have anyone lynched this action period.

@Zaphod - You say potato, I say potatoe... I was trying to accomplish a few things with that post... It just means if you win as scum this way their is no honor in winning that way. Also I started feeling guilty for not reading careful enough and missed her post about leaving mafiascum and wanted to let her know I enjoyed playing with her.

@zmd - Please do NOT tunnel vision. Can you actually do some scum hunting rather than go with this "policy" lynch plan? My partner wanted to lynch you but I unvoted you, because of your responses however if he is not back by later tonight or tomorrow, I am gonna vote for you. I don't know his entire case against you, but I know some of it and have read the other questions people have reagarding your alignemt and they all make sense. I trust my partners instincts. - ww
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Post Post #547 (isolation #86) » Fri May 08, 2009 11:58 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zmd wrote:How am I tunneling? I see A&B and Ortohoops as town. If we quicklynch you, JScope, and Zaphod, we should win. ny would be next, but I see them as pretty townie too.
You know I just don't see you wanting to do anything but go with the "policy lynch" plan... and I disagree with tha plan. We can still move quick and not slow down this game, considering A & B is watching our scum right now and they can not afford to kill anyone we are in a good position. I still don't understand why you voted Yo/nuwen, when you clearly stated a few weeks ago we were scum. To me your post just read like, I don't care who is scum, "ZMD just want to eliminate people from this game so it will be easier."

You know what also really intrigues me, You both seem to have one voice and shoveling the same comments. Can you please tell me if both partners are active and who wrote this last post? - ww
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Post Post #548 (isolation #87) » Fri May 08, 2009 12:04 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

The more and more I read your posts in solation Zmd and the other comments people have made on your alignment the more you reek of scum. Since it seems we are doing the policy lynch thing, and Zmd has the most votes...

Vote: ZMD
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Post Post #549 (isolation #88) » Fri May 08, 2009 12:48 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zmd wrote:Sorry for being slow getting into this game. Reading now.
Incamnito wrote: I say lynch whenever we have a good cantidate!
QFT
sex w/ shafteds wife club wrote: Goofball, did you learn any scumtells from playing with Nuwen and Yos2?
If she did, she obviously shouldn't point them out now. At least not unless they've shown up in this game already. I assume they haven't though. DGB called Yos/Nuwen town.
Incamnito wrote: 3. Zmd - Lets start playing now! KMD can't blame the time difference, can he?
Nope.
Raging Wishbone wrote: If I am wrong and Incamito was killed by scum with five votes on him, why? Why would scum waiste that kill on someone who was wagoned so hard? Did he write something that really scared the scum team?
I assume it was the breadcrumb
I think this is the exchange that bothers me most... ZMD claims to want to lynch good candidates, however they dont want to lynch "good" candidates, they only want to lynch anyone who is easy to lynch. They dont care if they lynch townie or scum, they just want to survive... if we didn't already have a lynched VIG, I would swear they were Serial Killers.

As far as a conncetion to Yos, reading so far, this is the closest thing I can find; the whole exchange with SexEd... Why does Zmd, tell DGB not to point out the scumtell on Yos/Nuwen...why does ZMD never tell us a scumtell on yos/Nuwen... Why does ZMD try to derail DGB's early line of questioning?

I'm not sure ZMD is the right lynch, however my partner was... Also, out of all the remaining Townies, Zmd is on the top of those I think may be scum. I think this is s good lynch.

Someone please Hammer this Scum!
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Post Post #551 (isolation #89) » Fri May 08, 2009 2:34 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Unvote: ZMD


We are running out of townies, and I aint playing Survivor anymore... policy lynch = bad!

@Hoops your link to an ethics discussion was SPOT on..

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3&start=75

Who here wants to keep Zaphod/DGB in the game and let her win whether town or scum because she wrote "she is leaving mafiascum because people accuse her of being scum when she is town." - Hopps you supported my posts regarding this matter, so you really cant win if you are scum either can you? I mean you can win, but then you gotta answer ethics questions right?

I absolutely can NOT vote for either of them because of this! I dont want her to leave because she gets accussed of being scum, when she is town! And I agree with everything Hoops wrote.

Is this unfair, cheating? Anyone care to chime in...

@ZMD - Pull your head out of your ass beacuse if you end up in endgame, playing Survivor you are gonna loose TOWN this game! You are not reading enough, you are not paying attention, you act so scummy at times, and you have no idea when you are at l1 or l2... Genius we dont vote who we like or dont like out of this game, we vote for who is scum... You just want to play "Survivor" and I'm telling you right now, you will cost us this game.
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Post Post #554 (isolation #90) » Fri May 08, 2009 6:00 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Zmd wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:And you aren't sure it's the right lynch and yet you want me hammered and are prepared to confidently call me scum? Seriously?
Raging Wishbone wrote: @ZMD - Pull your head out of your ass beacuse if you end up in endgame, playing Survivor you are gonna loose TOWN this game! You are not reading enough, you are not paying attention, you act so scummy at times, and you have no idea when you are at l1 or l2... Genius we dont vote who we like or dont like out of this game, we vote for who is scum... You just want to play "Survivor" and I'm telling you right now, you will cost us this game.
I'm reading much more than I did very early in the game. I'm active and have strong opinions. I'm not going to sit back and take a lynch for no reason.
Do you read at all ZMD? I unvoted you! I don;'t want you hammed... Why did you write I wanted you hammered? I do think you are an idiot and if this town lets you go into end game scum will destroy you.

You did not answer my most important question...tis an Ethics question! If DGB/Plum or Hoops win as scum have they violated a code of ethics according to you standards?
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Post Post #555 (isolation #91) » Fri May 08, 2009 6:05 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP


Meh, actually meebe, I am the idiot since I can't work a tag to save me life...lol
ZMD wrote:And you aren't sure it's the right lynch and yet you want me hammered and are prepared to confidently call me scum? Seriously?
ZMD wrote: @ZMD - Pull your head out of your ass beacuse if you end up in endgame, playing Survivor you are gonna loose TOWN this game! You are not reading enough, you are not paying attention, you act so scummy at times, and you have no idea when you are at l1 or l2... Genius we dont vote who we like or dont like out of this game, we vote for who is scum... You just want to play "Survivor" and I'm telling you right now, you will cost us this game.
I'm reading much more than I did very early in the game. I'm active and have strong opinions. I'm not going to sit back and take a lynch for no reason.
Do you read at all ZMD? I unvoted you! I don;'t want you hammed... Why did you write I wanted you hammered? I do think you are an idiot and if this town lets you go into end game scum will destroy you.

You did not answer my most important question...tis an Ethics question! If DGB/Plum or Hoops win as scum have they violated a code of ethics according to you standards?
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Post Post #557 (isolation #92) » Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Hey Hoops, please answer my ethics question.. neither you or Zaphod can win as scum based on the entire ethics discussion, right? I mean you can win, but playing a card that DGB will leave this sight because she was accused of being scum when she is in fact town is an ethics question. YOU pointed out the thread, so I would really love to hear your thoughts on the matter. :)
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Post Post #559 (isolation #93) » Fri May 08, 2009 6:54 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:DGB didn't specifically refer to it in this game did she?

And just because she complains of getting wagoned when town doesn't mean if she gets wagoned this game, she is town. I am of the opinion that, yes, that thread was partly influencing my judgement on DGB but it may also be that I find her unjustly suspect in general. Still, it's clearly not influencing my judgement- her and Plum are my second choice for a lynch.
meh, semantics yeah she did, I thought that is why you gave me the Ethics thread link...cause you thought it would be wrong for either me, her, or NOW you to use that card to win this game. A statement implied or one spoken with conviction, meh, they should mean something yeah?

Why did you write she did not mention it in this thread? (we can meta and define or interpret semantics yeah?) She absolutely implied it or spoke/wrote with it in conviction at least, as far as I am concerned neither you or dgb/plum can win as scum... Do you agree, I mean you can both win, but I will never stop oosting in the ethics thread about it!

I gave you and dgb/plum a free pass because I did not want DGB to leave mafiascum... I can sleep at night losing on that note!
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Post Post #562 (isolation #94) » Fri May 08, 2009 7:28 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:Are you making the point that saying she gets unfairly wagoned in every game in an ethics thread is unethical for all her ongoing/subsequent games?
no, the point I am making is she wrote the comment that she is leaving mafiascum because she gets accused of being scum when she is town. We had this discussion or at least me and your partner did and he agreed.

So, my question is ethically speaking would this be a piss-poor way to win?

I mean we have our choice, vote dgb scum and she leaves the sight for ever or vote her town and she will stay? Again, we already had this discussion and you seemed to agree and pointed me to the ethics thread.... so you are now in the same position as her. ;)
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Post Post #564 (isolation #95) » Fri May 08, 2009 9:06 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:There is no dilemma here. She has not said for this game "vote me and I'll leave site". If she had, I would be lynching her as a number one priority. I don't believe she said that in any external threads either, she just claims she is getting tunneled on with poor logic, which seems to be a subjective determination. Either way it has no relevance to this game as far as I can see.

Anyway, the decision needs to be made.

Vote: Zmd


L-1
sorry Hoops can you please just agree or disagree with this...it is a yes or no question. Ethically speaking based on the dialog we have had this game, you can not win "win" as scum, yes or no?
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Post Post #565 (isolation #96) » Fri May 08, 2009 9:06 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:There is no dilemma here. She has not said for this game "vote me and I'll leave site". If she had, I would be lynching her as a number one priority. I don't believe she said that in any external threads either, she just claims she is getting tunneled on with poor logic, which seems to be a subjective determination. Either way it has no relevance to this game as far as I can see.

Anyway, the decision needs to be made.

Vote: Zmd


L-1
sorry Hoops can you please just agree or disagree with this...it is a yes or no question. Ethically speaking based on the dialog we have had this game, you can not win "win" as scum, yes or no?
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Post Post #567 (isolation #97) » Fri May 08, 2009 9:14 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:We cannot win as scum in this game, but that is not because of an ethical issue :)

I see the ethical issue with DGB as largely irrelevant because if she is scum I don't see her living to end-game. I might feel a little bit resentful if I felt less inclined to vote her in a certain game because of her complaints about being targeted too much while town, but that's life I suppose (and is not currently relevant to this game).
Alright Bro or sis...lol, who am I talking/posting with anyway Hoops or Orto, lol...

VOTE: ZMD
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Post Post #571 (isolation #98) » Fri May 08, 2009 11:29 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Gah, was just about to point out ZMD's more likely town because of his interaction with A&B. Should've gotten on this game sooner.

I believe we're in twilight now, otherwise I'd vote Zaphod as well. I don't understand Walt inclination to be "moral" and let her live 'cause she's pissed off at the site, DGB isn't a little girl and I'm sure she doesn't want wins handed to her on a silver platter as some sort of an attempt to soothe her. Orthoops I'm pretty sure is town, and nybalajasldgjas is prob town as well due to the part their predeccesors took on the yoswagon. So my preferred order is Zaphod, then J-scope, then probably nybazxklgjsdlkgnalkhdgn.

-RR
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Post Post #572 (isolation #99) » Fri May 08, 2009 11:39 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

We've got time to end this before scum gets another kill in if we're quick about things (
Mod
, please try and make twilights last closer to 6 hours than 18, as time is of the essence in determining the result of this game), so I believe we should have 3 more lynches this action phase.

Getting to the next phase with 3 alive means we lose, getting to it with more means we flat out lose our last lynch. No amount of discussion is worth this, so let's not let talk get in the way of lynching.

Just in the off chance it'll count,
vote Zaphod
.
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Post Post #578 (isolation #100) » Sat May 09, 2009 3:50 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Today we can either do one or three lynches. It will depend on who posts. I'm thinking three lynches is likely to be practically difficult, in which case we will need to do one, wait till the kill gets committed tomorrow, then do the last.
What's to stop scum from watiting with their kill 'till after we lynch down to 3?
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Post Post #580 (isolation #101) » Sat May 09, 2009 6:02 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

I was asking about the part on lynching once today, then "wait 'till the kill gets comitted tomorrow".
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Post Post #583 (isolation #102) » Sat May 09, 2009 8:09 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Vote Zaphod
. Nonparticipant on the Yos wagon and actively tried to throw attention elsewhere, and DGB's gone eerily quite here. I think we've no time to waste contemplating this,

J-Scope wrote:Someone else, I think A&B, pointed out that Yos was the first one to release the AIM chats. That seemed to be the primary reason you voted Yos-Nuwen even though you felt you weren't ready. What had made you think it was a lie in the beginning?

Also you talked about how people had made elaborate fake chats in another game. What made you think Yos-Nuwen's chats were fakes? Was it the wording of something?
The argument you quoted was Walt's, so I can't answer your first question. Also, Walt voted for Yos before I had the time to catch up and find the AIM convo scummy. But yes, if I was the one to vote Yos, it'd be mainly due to the AIM exchange. As for the why, I explained this earlier if you care to look it up, but bascially there was a suspicious gap between two sentences both in timestamp and subject which indicated something was censored, and I didn't like how they kept talking about the town in third person and seemed to be coldly caulculating their odds of winning.
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Post Post #589 (isolation #103) » Sun May 10, 2009 7:36 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Two lynches is definitely not viable before the end of the action phase, we need to wait until the scum makes their final kill.
Again, why would they narrow the suspect pool for us by killing before we lynch?

I agree we won't get the speedlynching done on time, though. This mean's we've one lynch remaining, and we gotta decide on it before the end of the next phase to avoid the risk of a double scumkill.

orthoops is still obvtown imo, and Pesco-Light's interactio with Yos still strikes me as genuine. So I'm leaning J-Scope.

-RR
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Post Post #592 (isolation #104) » Sun May 10, 2009 12:46 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Whatever we do next this is END game. We get one lynch and scum get one kill tomorrow, so, we have to be absoluelty correct on this lynch. Me and RR are kinda on the same page, although we do have a few slightly different thoughts. I went back through everyones posts in isolation; I'm still leaning on Hoops as being the most Townie (which everyone else seems to agree), I difer in my opinion with RR on Jscope and Nyballs... Going back through the posts the thing that stands out the most to me is the obvious train of thought. Scum don't need to debate whether or not they are going to get a townie killed they just need to get someone lynched. With Jscope, you can see the clear back and forth, you can see him trying to figure out who is scum and who is not. With Hoops to a lesser degree, although there were moments of let's just hang this guy, they overall have taken a very methodical approach to the game. NyBalls and Pesco Light do not give me that feeling near as much as the other two players.

I kinda agree with RR, that scum would not be in hurry to lynch anyone to reduce our suspect pool, unless it was Hoops. Now that scum have seen who we all are thinking of lynching and that most of the town thinks Hoops is obvtow, they may think they can go ahead and lynch... However I am gonna put an end to that right now.... We are TOWN and there is is once last gambit we can play, it's daytalk. Our daytalk will prove us town. RR and Apples and Bananas had a discussion about this earlier in the game, and was quoted the rules by Adel. They indicate if we do not discuss the other game, we are allowed to paste it. Also RR cant do screencaps on his puter, I can on mine. So my suggestion Hoops, NYBAlls, and Jscope, is we all post our daytalk with our partners and how we communicated.

Me and RR used three formats: MSN, pm here on MS and we have a QT entitled RagingWishbone, they have dates, times and everything. There are a few threads and convos that can not be shown because they contain talk of the other game, but the rest of it is clear as the light of day. This is gonna accomplish two things; first scum is going to have to show a clear line of discussion regarding this game and answer some of the comments they have made in this thread about conversations they have had with thier partner. Second; it now makes their next kill much harder because if both we and Hoops are obv town, they can't kills us both next action period.

So, although we have a bit of time, we do need to hurry so we dont reach the "following" action period allowing yet another kill. Again, looking though Yo/Nuwen aim conversation it was easy to tell it was fabricated. It was how we caught the scum in Lovers Multiball and I beleive it will be how we catch the scum in this game. I have to run out but I will have time tomorrow to do the screencaps. So please everyone let me know what you all think. Please let's hurry up and do this... Please let me know what you all were using to talk to your partner? and lets end this game quick.
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Post Post #598 (isolation #105) » Sun May 10, 2009 11:40 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Now we play the waiting game...
Are you even reading my posts?

Real shame how we basically missed another safe lynch by, like, 12 hours.

J-Scope wrote:Exactly what about Pesco-Light's interaction with Yos is genuine? Why does "genuine" mean they are not likely scum with Yos?
Pesco-Light wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:Here's the distinction - the motivation behind breadcrumbing was a null tell (any power role has the motivation to crumb his or her results, regardless of alignment). As an independent body, nothing Incamn did made him/her more likely to be scum than town or town than scum.

Probability dictates that killing a random power role will hit scum more often than killing any other random player. This isn't a tell; it's a ratio observation independent of the crumbing itself.
Playing the setup isn't going to catch scum more effectively than solid scumhunting and I'm quite sure this is not unreasonable to expect from the experienced players in this game.
This was the only real interaction they had. It was the reason Pesco voted and it was their last post. I don't think it is a indication either way because they were not calling Yos scum, but they did place a vote so if they are partners they intended to distance early. We don't know what their true intention was because it never played out. Maybe they were hoping to withdraw the vote, but maybe not. At the time of the vote I think there was enough time and leeway to do either.

So I don't think Pesco-Light's actions make them much less likely to be scum. I think nyballs has looked pro-town, however, by getting to the root of who could be scum and why based on day 1's wagon.

I have to write up a case but I'm thinking I'd vote for RW over nyballs.
Tthis post makes me wanna vote J-Scope right now. I really dislike how he tries to throw some dirt on nybasdjgsalxzgkasj so I'll be more likely to vote nyba over him, and several lines later claims to find him pro time anyways. This behavior is both indicative of his interest being only in self survival, and typical of Jahudo's play as scum (at least judging by the relatively recent Boost mafia). I'll wait for more discussion with Walt and everyone to post daytalk, though.
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Post Post #599 (isolation #106) » Sun May 10, 2009 11:41 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:Exactly what about Pesco-Light's interaction with Yos is genuine? Why does "genuine" mean they are not likely scum with Yos?
Pesco-Light wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:Here's the distinction - the motivation behind breadcrumbing was a null tell (any power role has the motivation to crumb his or her results, regardless of alignment). As an independent body, nothing Incamn did made him/her more likely to be scum than town or town than scum.

Probability dictates that killing a random power role will hit scum more often than killing any other random player. This isn't a tell; it's a ratio observation independent of the crumbing itself.
Playing the setup isn't going to catch scum more effectively than solid scumhunting and I'm quite sure this is not unreasonable to expect from the experienced players in this game.
This was the only real interaction they had. It was the reason Pesco voted and it was their last post. I don't think it is a indication either way because they were not calling Yos scum, but they did place a vote so if they are partners they intended to distance early. We don't know what their true intention was because it never played out. Maybe they were hoping to withdraw the vote, but maybe not. At the time of the vote I think there was enough time and leeway to do either.

So I don't think Pesco-Light's actions make them much less likely to be scum. I think nyballs has looked pro-town, however, by getting to the root of who could be scum and why based on day 1's wagon.

I have to write up a case but I'm thinking I'd vote for RW over nyballs.
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Post Post #600 (isolation #107) » Sun May 10, 2009 11:41 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

:roll:
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Post Post #603 (isolation #108) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:13 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:What are you talking about RW? How did we miss a safe-lynch?

When the next action phase starts (T-1 hour), we need to wait for the scum to make their kill, then lynch quickly.
For the 4th and final time,
scum have no reason to kill 'till we lynch
.

Your other questions address Walt, and I trust he'll answer them, though asking him to prove the whole thing isn't some sort of conspiracy of ours is like asking him to prove he doesn't have a sister.
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Post Post #615 (isolation #109) » Mon May 11, 2009 6:42 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:No, but, seriously, at what point did we miss a safe lynch, apart from about 3 days ago?

We can't have done anything else up until this point.
I'm not saying there's any point specifically where we missed a lynch, just that it's a shame that if we would've done things like 12 hours faster we would've had another free one.
no, I am just wanting to know where specifically the screenshotting was discussed as I didn't notice it on a cursory re-read
I don't remember either, so I'll let Walt answer you since he's the one who discussed that.
J-Scope wrote: Can you or your partner answer my questions from that post? I'm not throwing dirt on nyballs; they've looked town to me as I've said previously. I'm also not saying Pesco-Light was scummy, because their vote was never played out and they are not responsible for flaking at that key moment.
It's genuine simply because it feels real to me rather than planned in advance. It's a gut thing and I see no point arguing this further.
J-Scope wrote:I'm merely saying that I don't think Pesco-Light was involved with, or ever knew about, the main reasons why Yosariwen was lynched. Sure, they would have had to distance which doesn't seem exceedingly likely in a timed game, but we don't know their true intentions.

The main point I made with that post was this: Pesco Light did not call Yos scum or scummy. Their vote had alot of weight in the long run but not initially because they never drew a conclusion that Yos could be scum.
And my point is that you as town shouldn't be trying to discredit nyba if you actually do think they're town, and the fact you your first point is bascially meant to make me lean more towards lynching nyba than you while the second one is that you think nyba's town and I'm scum makes it look like all you're looking for is for someone else to get lynched.
J-Scope wrote:Self-survival is hard to judge. I think you are doing it too. It is clear to me that one of us is more likely the lynch, but this time choosing wrong costs us the game. So yes, I am thinking of self-survival.
The fact I was considering nyba and your post essentially encourages me to consider him further alone proves this is a completely false dichotomy.
ort wrote:I don't like how this reads. You are acknowledging that one of you or RW is the more likely lynch, but saying you can understand his behaviour from a townie perspective. However your thought process as town should be "I am not scum, I am not voting for nyb or Ortohoops therefore RW is scum".
qft.


I tend to see nyba's suggestion to no lynch as a null - slight town tell. And ort's right, we need to post whatever daytalk we can asap.

Just saw J-scope posted a big case on us, will address it in a seperate post.

Just
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Post Post #616 (isolation #110) » Mon May 11, 2009 7:23 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

As always, I'll answer the parts regarding me and let Walt handle his. So if I ignore a question, it's probably because I'm the half of the hydra that shouldn't be answering it.
J-Scope wrote:Self-survival is what scum are doing too. To me RW is most likely the last scum. To everyone else, my perception is that one of us must be scum and the other town with scum tendencies (ie: not hard voting Yos). To everyone of us this decision ends the game so both scum and town have reason towards self-survival.

I think RW was getting at that I was self-survival because that's something that scum would do. I agree, but it has to be something town does here.
Highly manipulative. Again you draw that false dichotomy - why you completely rule out nyba (and to a lesser extent orhoops) is beyond me unless you know they're town and think you'll have the easiest time getting us lynched. Then there's the "scum tendencies" thing, which basically draws the equation that scummy = a person not voting Yos, but is absurd since by using the term "
hard
voting" he groups him and us together, even though Walt and I voted Yos, while he
didn't
. Votes can be seen as genuine to different extents, but there's no such thing as "hard voting". You either vote or you don't.
J-Scope wrote:To everyone of us this decision ends the game so both scum and town have reason towards self-survival.
This isn't a 3 player - 1 confirmed townie situation where both sides know their lynch means their side loses. If you're town, you should've been trying to decide who's the last scum - to actually scumhunt - rather than just pick us out as the most likely to be lynched and draw a false dichotomy that either you or us must therefore be the scum and the lynch. This looks even worse when you consider how you tried to make me suspect nyba over you, without ever yourself expressing a belief that he's scum. This isn't scumhunting, this is pure self survival when town still has scumhunting to do, and is therefore a strong scumtell imo.

J-Scope wrote:These were taken very early on in the wagon, around 2 votes where the attention was building but not the dominant issue. They chose not to push the issue of the crumb and from the start they decided to play it off as nothing while still giving them potential room to change their mind through the other head:
Since these quotes are the only ones that are mine, I just wanna mention that I still think that crumbing thing Nuwen did was bad play for both sides and therefore a null tell, but we're of course lucky to have lynched scum based on it (or I could be just flat out wrong).
J-Scope wrote: These questions look like they are directed at the self, as if the hydra is debating how they will eventually rule this decision but for now they are giving Nuwen the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, and I would think this kind of genuine indecision and conflicting opinions between two players sharing the same role is a towntell. Of course you try to portray it as a conspiracy of ours to make us look better by intentionally disagreeing and using different trails of thought, but again asking me to prove this isn't the case is like asking me to prove I don't have a sister. I think that, generally speaking, if something looks like a genuine towntell, it should be seen as a genuine towntell, even if it's not defenitive and can also be explained as a planned ahead intiricate scum ploy.
J-Scope wrote:There is a hint of suspicion of Yos-Nuwen in this post but it is very weak and probably couldn't have led to much. The bigger importance is how they use both heads to think independent, differing thoughts. This allows them to stay on the fence until one path becomes more viable and ultimately the head that chose that path could convince the other without us seeing much of the behind the scenes talk.

This can be alleviated if they provide private discussions, but I am somewhat hesitant to what they will show seeing as they believe they know how to determine fake conversations from real ones, and how they might position that authority.
Here you continue the intricate ploy line. Why is this a better explanation than simple disagreement between two townies sharing the same role? It isn't, you're just writing this post in an attempt to make us look scummy, either as a result of tunnlevision or of you being scum (and since the tunnlevision looks completely intentional, I'd go for the second). I also like how you prepare yourself ahead to cast doubt on our DT.

'J-Scope wrote:The reason they joined the wagon, frankly, looks like a small issue to the reasons many of us suspected Yos-Nuwen. A couple minutes in between AIM posts, using "they" to refer to the town; it is hard to say how people use their time on AIM or their English. The first can be explained away by other AIM chat conversations; the second could refer to the "town that isn't us and doesn't know us". Yes, these things are mute because Yos-Nuwen flipped scum but the last remaining scum would have known this and, by bussing, would turn this small tell into a genuine find after the flip.

I am betting that RW gauged the wagon early on as a passing phase, so he stayed off it. The wagon became great and this AIM tell was invented to give himself a reason to join. It helped that both heads had been opposed on some other opinions, so this hop would look like an extension of that. One even said they would differ to the other on the decision. We presume this is where the one that genuinely opposed the wagon from the start now differs to the other who was more cautious and has more justification to join as a curious, scumhunting "townie".
Untrue. I don't remember exactly why Walt joined the wagon, so I'll let him explain it again himself when he returns, but the AIM tell was originally mentioned in my catch-up post, that was typed before Yos' lynchbut posted after he was already proven scum. Even though it's entirely possible that had I managed to catch up before Yos' lynch I'd vote him based on the AIM tell and some other stuff I commented on then, I was too late and that's not what happened.

If you count the Zmd lynch, that's twice I would've probably made the "right" decision and correceted a "wrong" stance I had before if I hadn't been too late, which is a shame but then again this game is moving at a pretty insane pace, and so's my life atm. Of course you can choose not to believe me and claim I only made those up after Yos and Zmd died to make me look better, and again there's no way for me to prove that isn't the case other than tell you it isn't.

Anyways, this proves your whole above theory false, though I'm sure with some effort you'll be able to make up a new one which explains how we're even more likely to be conspirators in light of the actual facts. I doubt it'll be very convincing, though.
J-Scope wrote:I am betting that RW is scum. If this comes down to me vs. RW I'll vote and let the others decide.
You're the one trying to make it come down to it, 'cause you think (or thought) you're most likely to win this dual.

Answer me this, for a start - why does the difference of opinion between me and Walt make us more likely to be scum? What's wrong with the simple explanation that we really did disagree on some stuff?



I'm almost ready to vote J-Scope, but I'll wait some more for everyone's DT.
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Post Post #617 (isolation #111) » Mon May 11, 2009 7:30 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:RW: can you point me to where you had the discussion about posting screenshots of quicktopics, then post yours. I want time to look at it because I see it as possible you guys premeditated it and planned for it all along.
Here is the exchange, between RR and Sens Fan...
Apples and Banana wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Sens wrote:What QT?
Me and Walt set up a QT to communicate when we're not both online. You should do the same if you're town and haven't yet.
3) Mind posting a screenshot of an earlier segment of the QT? Preferably one where you're discussing who you think is Scum. Also nice to be included would be the title of the QT. (Obviously, crop/blur out the url.)
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Sens wrote:3) Mind posting a screenshot of an earlier segment of the QT? Preferably one where you're discussing who you think is Scum. Also nice to be included would be the title of the QT. (Obviously, crop/blur out the url.)
I'm not sure Adel will be ok with this, nor do I think my fucekd up computer is capable of taking screenshots. Otherwise, fine.
Mod
, is this allowed?
Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Yeah, gathered as much. We talk about beta as well there, so that can't be done. I could paraphrase our talk on alpha, though.
Apples and Banana wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Yeah, gathered as much. We talk about beta as well there, so that can't be done. I could paraphrase our talk on alpha, though.
Ah, hadn't even thought of that.

Don't bother paraphrasing, that ruins the purpose.
I have a few screencaps done and loaded on a server, however I am having a bit of trouble figuring out how to embed them so far. Anyone know how I can do this?

@Adel - Can I just link to the photoboucket account with the screencaps? It does not contain anything other then a few screencaps of me and RR's talk of the Alpha game.
J-Scope wrote:There is nothing I can show because I haven't been playing with my partner (Kaleidoscope). I tried to exchange PM's and he had replied that he was sorry but couldn't keep up with the game.

Post 37 was the only post he made under "J-Scope". The rest was all me, Jahudo.

He had a few posts that he made on his own account but those were to say he wasn't reading, so I've just gone ahead and played solo.
I find it hard to believe you have nothing you can post and you did not communitcate with her at all when this game started. I see the K-scope left, but did you not talk to her after you got your roles? Did you not send her a pm or did she not send you a pm? Don't you think one off the first things everyone did in this game was speak to their partner?

@NyBalls - Good deal, I would love to see those posts if your partner agrees. :)

@RR - We were out of time yesterday and there was no sense in rushing a lynch and chancing being wrong so scum could swoop in and use this action period to make a kill and End this game. - ww
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Post Post #618 (isolation #112) » Mon May 11, 2009 7:38 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Just to prevent any confusion, that post above was Walt and the two before it are mine (RR).
Walt wrote:@Adel - Can I just link to the photoboucket account with the screencaps? It does not contain anything other then a few screencaps of me and RR's talk of the Alpha game.
I think as long as you don't put anything there mentioning beta, linking to basically wherever you want is completely allowed. I could post my flickr account, if anybody cared. :P
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Post Post #619 (isolation #113) » Mon May 11, 2009 7:53 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:I would probably vote for J-Scope at this stage, just throwing it out there

that is very, very pending RW posting their quicktopic and it being heavily scrutinised, as well as nyby
@J-Scope - Why do you think Hoops would think of voting for you or NYballs as scum? I told everyone I was gonna post screen caps that should make us obv town. If Hoops was scum why would he even consider letting us continue. Wouldn't the smartest thing for scum to do, elimante us before we had the chance? So imo Hoops is looking really town in this game
nyballosulgniirkps wrote:Yeah it's possible.

Pending my partner's approval, I think we should no lynching because right now I'm feeling indecisive.

Thought, no lynch only at the end of the day so we can have a bit of breathing toom.
I am indecisive too and his is might be a good plan, if scum don't make a kill by the end of the next action period. However, with the delay on actions, i don't think we can take that chance. With all our different time zones and stuff I think we need to come to a consensus by the end of Day Wedensday May 13th.

@RR - I left you the link in qt, if you know how to embed them from flickr, please let me know, I can switch to that. - ww
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Post Post #621 (isolation #114) » Mon May 11, 2009 8:12 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:I think you missed the point entirely. I was pointing out how YOU were misguided on what Pesco did or did not do. They hardly pressed Yos at all and not on the reasons others did, which I took as a NULL TELL. You on the other hand give them a townie read that your now basing on a feel? But really you pointed towards their interactions with Yos, which made me suspicious of you because you did not say why and I suspected you just made it up.

I am saying that you are crediting nyballs, perhaps to get them on your side. I was not discrediting nyballs because I did not suspect them or Pesco. I suspected how you elevated Pesco, therefore I suspected you!
Yeah, nice try. Here's the original quote:
J-Scope wrote:Exactly what about Pesco-Light's interaction with Yos is genuine? Why does "genuine" mean they are not likely scum with Yos?
Pesco-Light wrote:
Yosariwen wrote:Here's the distinction - the motivation behind breadcrumbing was a null tell (any power role has the motivation to crumb his or her results, regardless of alignment). As an independent body, nothing Incamn did made him/her more likely to be scum than town or town than scum.

Probability dictates that killing a random power role will hit scum more often than killing any other random player. This isn't a tell; it's a ratio observation independent of the crumbing itself.
Playing the setup isn't going to catch scum more effectively than solid scumhunting and I'm quite sure this is not unreasonable to expect from the experienced players in this game.
This was the only real interaction they had. It was the reason Pesco voted and it was their last post. I don't think it is a indication either way because they were not calling Yos scum, but they did place a vote so if they are partners they intended to distance early. We don't know what their true intention was because it never played out. Maybe they were hoping to withdraw the vote, but maybe not. At the time of the vote I think there was enough time and leeway to do either.

So I don't think Pesco-Light's actions make them much less likely to be scum. I think nyballs has looked pro-town, however, by getting to the root of who could be scum and why based on day 1's wagon.

I have to write up a case but I'm thinking I'd vote for RW over nyballs.
You don't use your analysis of nyba as a followup to questioning me or showing why you suspect me, you just contradict my point (thereby hopefully making him look worse to me) and go on to declare him pro town.
J-Scope wrote:The “not hard voting” was an example of how you are perceived as possible town with scum tendencies. If I were analyzing myself I would probably use the example “investigating Yos without voting”.

I’m grouping us together only because to an outsider our actions could have been stronger on the Yos wagon.
And yet, there's a very clear cut difference between
voting
Yos and
not voting
Yos which you where trying to blur with your invention of "hard voting".
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Post Post #622 (isolation #115) » Mon May 11, 2009 8:14 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

viewtopic.php?t=9678

For everyone's benefit, above is a link to the aformentioned boost mafia, where Jahudo played somewhat similarly to here and got lynched d1 as GF.
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Post Post #624 (isolation #116) » Mon May 11, 2009 8:42 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Jahudo wrote:How would a scum-Pesco be unable to make that post?
He wouldn't, there's no such thing as a post scum are "unable" to make. It's a matter of me feeling his exchange with Yos was genuine (and also tactically not a move I'd expect scum to make, though that's no to say it couldn't have been bussing), which is a matter of gut and I don't see how you can hold that against me. Your post doesn't look at all like it was intended as an attack of me, and anyways the attack you now try to present it as to cover the scumtell I blamed you of really sucks.
Jahudo wrote:Is that what you were getting at by “played” or do you mean my offense?
I mostly mean the "contributing a reasonable amount to the game while flying just under the radar" vibe I get from you in both games. I think it's a smart approach for scum to take.
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Post Post #627 (isolation #117) » Mon May 11, 2009 1:45 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@J-scope - I am posting this question for you again cause I did not see you answer it in your responses to RR...
J-Scope wrote:There is nothing I can show because I haven't been playing with my partner (Kaleidoscope). I tried to exchange PM's and he had replied that he was sorry but couldn't keep up with the game.

Post 37 was the only post he made under "J-Scope". The rest was all me, Jahudo.

He had a few posts that he made on his own account but those were to say he wasn't reading, so I've just gone ahead and played solo.
I find it hard to believe you have nothing you can post and you did not communitcate with her at all when this game started. I see the K-scope left, but did you not talk to her after you got your roles? Did you not send her a pm or did she not send you a pm? Don't you think one off the first things everyone did in this game was speak to their partner?

I found a place in the Faq that explains how to do the bbcode and emmbed the images. This is what I have loaded so far. The first part is just helloes and discussing the other game...

Image

Image

The following screencap is my thought process and explanation to RR during the yo/nuw discussion.

Image

I voted yosarien, then unvoted them which started around post 287 and continued through 299... After reading and rereading Nuwens post again it just felt really wrong and saw fallacy in her daytalk...
Raging Wishbone wrote:@ Yoso: There was another game a bunch of the same people here played called "Lovers multi ball".... so you put together a nice AIM log,...well four of our scum posted FAKE daytalk in that game ten times more convincing then what you wrote! They were SleepeyPanda/Armix and the other scum was Neko/Sekinj... Their daytalk was a brilliant attempt, but it was really easy to cut through the BS and end that scum game quick.
After yo/nuw and Trotsky both were down we were feeling pretty good.

Image

The this is after we lost sexed pokealpha, and frogdoge....

Image

I am still uploading, it's a little difficult cause I gotta clip around the beta stuff. But I will put some more up as needed.

@Hoops - Love to see your daytalk as well so we can discuss them all together. Answered your questions regarding the RR and Apples and Bananas question here...
Raging Wishbone wrote:
ortolan wrote:RW: can you point me to where you had the discussion about posting screenshots of quicktopics, then post yours. I want time to look at it because I see it as possible you guys premeditated it and planned for it all along.
Here is the exchange, between RR and Sens Fan...
Apples and Banana wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Sens wrote:What QT?
Me and Walt set up a QT to communicate when we're not both online. You should do the same if you're town and haven't yet.
3) Mind posting a screenshot of an earlier segment of the QT? Preferably one where you're discussing who you think is Scum. Also nice to be included would be the title of the QT. (Obviously, crop/blur out the url.)
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Sens wrote:3) Mind posting a screenshot of an earlier segment of the QT? Preferably one where you're discussing who you think is Scum. Also nice to be included would be the title of the QT. (Obviously, crop/blur out the url.)
I'm not sure Adel will be ok with this, nor do I think my fucekd up computer is capable of taking screenshots. Otherwise, fine.
Mod
, is this allowed?
Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Yeah, gathered as much. We talk about beta as well there, so that can't be done. I could paraphrase our talk on alpha, though.
Apples and Banana wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:
Saunt Adelaus wrote:see rules 17 and 18
Yeah, gathered as much. We talk about beta as well there, so that can't be done. I could paraphrase our talk on alpha, though.
Ah, hadn't even thought of that.

Don't bother paraphrasing, that ruins the purpose.
I have a few screencaps done and loaded on a server, however I am having a bit of trouble figuring out how to embed them so far. Anyone know how I can do this?

@Adel - Can I just link to the photoboucket account with the screencaps? It does not contain anything other then a few screencaps of me and RR's talk of the Alpha game.
J-Scope wrote:There is nothing I can show because I haven't been playing with my partner (Kaleidoscope). I tried to exchange PM's and he had replied that he was sorry but couldn't keep up with the game.

Post 37 was the only post he made under "J-Scope". The rest was all me, Jahudo.

He had a few posts that he made on his own account but those were to say he wasn't reading, so I've just gone ahead and played solo.
I find it hard to believe you have nothing you can post and you did not communitcate with her at all when this game started. I see the K-scope left, but did you not talk to her after you got your roles? Did you not send her a pm or did she not send you a pm? Don't you think one off the first things everyone did in this game was speak to their partner?
@NyBalls - I need to do a reread as well and take a look at your daytalk, but I need to run to watch 24, lol. I will check back in later tonight or tomorrow.

Remember everyone one vote in teh wrong direction ends this game, if scum use their kill and swoop in lynch. so I would enjoy hearing more opinions so we could come to a consensus.
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Post Post #640 (isolation #118) » Tue May 12, 2009 6:08 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ok, a few thoughts...
ortolan wrote:Image

I realise this doesn't prove much and potentially makes us look scummy because it has us speculating about a second mafia, which could well imply we are in the first mafia

The whited out stuff included references to beta.
@Hoops I have two BIG problems with your daytalk.

1. On the top of you page it says Admin tools. Please notice the difference between the top of my quick topics page. I can not change anything like the way the page is numbered.

Image

2. The BIGGEST problem - you have posts number going down!

1
2
3
4
5

In quick topic numbers always go up unless they have been manipulated.

5
4
3
2
1

Look at my quick topic and look at JScopes. Look at examples everywhere quicktopic is posted.

Image

Image

I also am still having a problem with the semantics of our conversation of ethics and you winning as scum. You wrote...
Ortohoops wrote:We cannot win as scum in this game, but that is not because of an ethical issue :)
It was a yes or no question, with your statement. You could reply when the game is over, "I can't win is scum, but my team can. or the reason is I can not win is becuase it is not ethically wrong.... I don't know why you did not just write, I am not scum?

@J-scope - Please don't do this. Let everyone left take a look so we can come to a consensus. I'm not sure when RR will be on next, but lets hear his thoughts first.
J-Scope wrote:The top shows when and how I told him about the QT i created.

The censored stuff is beta talk. I stopped using the QT because K-Scope didn't keep his promise of getting back into the game after he responded to that PM on the bottom.

I'm sticking with my read.

Vote: Raging Wishbone
J-Scope wrote:
unvote


on second thought I'll see what RW thinks about orto's private communications.
Also, I don't like the fact you twisted the truth about not having any daytalk here. You wrote you had nothing to show, but you do have something to show which may be extremely helpfull considering the way Ortohoops numbered his posts in daytalk.
J-Scope wrote:There is nothing I can show because I haven't been playing with my partner (Kaleidoscope). I tried to exchange PM's and he had replied that he was sorry but couldn't keep up with the game.

Post 37 was the only post he made under "J-Scope". The rest was all me, Jahudo.

He had a few posts that he made on his own account but those were to say he wasn't reading, so I've just gone ahead and played solo.
Also, you asked the other day J-Scope....
J-Scope wrote:What about Hoops? Has she been in recently?
It does not seem like Hoops has been playing recently. It seems like it has all been Orto. He has been playing in a game at the same time as this. He was God Father and that game just ended, here is the link...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

Bottom line, I was really leaning towards a JScope lynch however I am no longer sure. The most daming thing on Hoops was the way his daytalk is numbered. I am going to read his recent game as a GodFather. Anyone else got a meta on him? We need to make a choice by tomorrow evening.

@RR - Please let me know what you think?
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Post Post #641 (isolation #119) » Tue May 12, 2009 6:15 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@Hoops - another question - on the right side of the page where you can edit or delete. There is no edit or delete function next to post number#2. On my quicktopics page, edit and delete is only available for the last post written. I can't edit RR's posts or any of my previous posts.

Reading Otro as scum right now, will be back later. I am sure RR will check in sometime soon today too.....
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Post Post #643 (isolation #120) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:12 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

It's Ortohoops guys. Please take a look at all of these daytalk threads from Lovers Multiball...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=2575

Please go to
post#2593
and click on each of these links to quicktopics...

----

Mafia
Werewolves
ThAdmiral & Xtoxm/DarlaBlueEyes
DrippingGoofball/Spacecase/OpposedForce/starrie & Darox/Raffles/wolframnhart
Crazy & Knight of Cydonia/farside22
Waltwishbone & Raging Rabbit
charter & Cephrir
Adel/Ennui2778 & Toaster Strudel/pwnz
Harvey Pew & ace1217cerebus3
Alabaska J & kloud1516/dybeck

------

EVERY SINGLE one, the posts are all in reverse order. Look at our and Jscopes posts from this game, the posts are numbered in reverse order!!!

The ONLY daytalk that starts at 1 and goes in a choronological (by dates, post number) order is Ortohoops. I am not going to vote I would like to hear what you Jscope and RR think. I also would like to hear if Ortohoops has a logical explanation for this, but those are my feelings....

Please take a look at these posts again, side by side...

Image

Image

...and

Image

Also reading through Ortolans game as Godfather here,

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

It just reads to me as the same way he has approached this game. He flew under the radar, like he was "spoon feeding us cough sryup and yet told us it was candy." Like a "Dentists saying a shot of novocaine won't hurt", lol...

@RR - You were in that game with him, what is your "scum"Orto read?

This is how I feel would love to hear opinions...
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Post Post #644 (isolation #121) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:52 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Also...

@RR also remember this is how we caught Sekinji/Neko - they changed the order of their posts when they paraphrased their daytalk...

Image

Image

Compared to this...

Image

Another THING, why was Hoops not obv kill by scum (Jscope, NYBalls, and us) all had Hoops pegged as town. Why would scum NOT eliminate Hops OBVTOWn at that point?

Why keep us and Jscope in the game over NYBalls? Maybe becuase NYballs wrote he was undecided, perhaps because of the exchange RR and Jscope had yesterday. Both of them indicated or at least implied they would vote for each other... All scum had to do was sit back and wait for one of team to vote for the other.
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Post Post #646 (isolation #122) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:58 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:
Raging Wishbone wrote:EVERY SINGLE one, the posts are all in reverse order. Look at our and Jscopes posts from this game, the posts are numbered in reverse order!!!

The ONLY daytalk that starts at 1 and goes in a choronological (by dates, post number) order is Ortohoops. I am not going to vote I would like to hear what you Jscope and RR think. I also would like to hear if Ortohoops has a logical explanation for this, but those are my feelings....
We should see if Ortohoops can explain it.

I think a big issue with their QT is that posts 1-5 don't distinguish what they are or what they have been looking for. Anyone could speculate if there is a second mafia if they didn't read the rules.

Their Post 5 by Hoops has a large white box that goes far past her one sentence. There was certainly something there, as there was at least a post 6. Was all of this beta talk?
Agreed Jscope, I would like to read what he writes in response...

Also that is a good point about speculating their was a second mafia team... Check out post four again, he write in one sentance, according to Adel, there is no second mafia team... however he continues in the second paragraph and speculates on a second mafia team?

I am not so concerned with post#5 and the big white blotch as I am with the way he numbered his posts? Did you check out all those links to a non-fabricated quicktopics exhange?

Also, I might not be able to be here tomorrow when we HAVE, HAVE to have our vote in by midnight... We can NOT let the next action period pass without a vote or Town losses.

@RR and Jscope - will you guys both be around tomorrow?
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Post Post #648 (isolation #123) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:13 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Still re-reading, another question....
ortolan wrote:We will do it but it won't prove much because we will need to edit two out of seven posts to remove beta-related content.
Actually you edited three out of the 7, not 2 to remove Beta content? or actually according to the way your posts are numbered you edited 7 out of 7, right?
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Post Post #650 (isolation #124) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:10 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Welcome back orto, I have been waiting for you since we went into end game and you went into lurker "doom"...
ortolan wrote:Sorry RW but I actually think you made a sum total of zero valid points against us in that last post

1) I have no idea what determines the order of posts, I've seen them going both ways before. Sometimes after you post it reverses the order also. It's probably an option but if you're implying it's like that cause that's edited that's quite retarded. Why would I go to the effort of editing (and such scummy content which doesn't prove anything to begin with) only to order them in a way you cannot in the actual quicktopic? ~ I just determined any quicktopic I look at is displayed that way. See below.
I made extremely valid points, some that you should have considered on both side of the table.... I made points against jscope too genius, his answers were spot on, like he has done the whole game!

Sometimes after you post it reverses the order? Did you read Lover Multiball, NONE of those threads have any post that were in reverse order... You imply anything I write is retarded again, I will FUCKING vote you right now and let JScope win if he scum!
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Post Post #651 (isolation #125) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:15 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote: 2) I dislike how this forced us into a dilemma of potentially compromising the other game
and/or
getting modkilled in this one for referencing the other game, which was the reason for the edited posts.
This is a manipulative load of crap, there will be no compromise on both games, modkills or anything else because of anything we all have wrote! We have all been very carefull on what we copy and pasted.
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Post Post #653 (isolation #126) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote: 3) I edited 3 out of 7 posts by whiting them out.
That's not
2
!
ortolan wrote: 4) The reason you don't have the admin tools is probably because you're not signed in, as it says?????? Do you think I would go to the effort of editing a quicktopic like that perfectly (which I assure you I'm not capable of) and then add an entire admin bar which isn't even there in reality??? ~ Actually I'm pretty sure it's there just because I created the Ortohoops topic.
Ok, lol, you can call me a retard here... let me see what happens if I log in.[/quote]
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Post Post #654 (isolation #127) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:20 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:I was talking about us having to censor stuff relating to the 2nd game

And please actually read my post, all my quicktopics are in that order. Just because you have a different setting on your account to mine does not mean anything was "edited".

I have not been lurking since this phase began? Why would you think that? There is a different day/night cycle in Australia.
Dude, hang tight... I promise I am reading through them and responding. I can't do a long post right now though, I got to do it in bits and peaces.
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Post Post #655 (isolation #128) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:31 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:
J-Scope (637) wrote:Can someone explain why nyballs was killed? I knew we all said we wouldn't lynch Orto or nyballs, but all this time I thought Orto was more town. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a strategy or something.
HELLO THIS IS A BLATANT WIFOM ATTEMPT BY SCUM.
NO, it is NOT obvious WIFOM by scum. you were the obvious kill and again I planted teh bread crumb to make sure YOU would not be killed (see I bought into the whole I cant win as scum BS!). I wrote I would post screencaps that would confirm us town with the sole purpose of making scum think twice before killing one of us... I just cant figure out why they chose NYBALLS instead of you or us...

Why did they kill NYBALLS?
ortolan wrote:RW,
because I'm pretty certain J-Scope is scum rather than you, I do hope you'll at
least
pay attention to the fact he was willing to vote you.
He changed his mind when he realised I had every intention of voting him and when he thought he could WIFOM you into the choice of lynching me after we posted a scummy looking quicktopic (and after he chose to kill nyb instead of us then made a big song and dance routine about the fact, which is BLATANTLY scummy).
Dude, I did the exact same thing with yos/nuwen... I voted them and unvoted them after I re-read... How can you ask me or "place a plea to emotion" that it was WIFOM or scummy that he changed his mind?
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Post Post #657 (isolation #129) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:37 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:On your point about my scum meta, sorry but that's just blatantly incorrect.

1) Despite what you claim, I
have not
lurked this game
at all
.

2) My scum meta isn't actually to lurk anyway, your sample is a large game which was mountainous, incredibly drawn out and not swingy, with a town ineffective at scum-hunting. There was little motivation to post much beyond drawing attention to oneself. Also even then relative to the other players I was quite active, so this "you lurk as scum" is fiction, and I haven't even been lurking this game. See Hunchback of Notre Dame mini, Suzumiya Haruhi mini, the lovers nightless open or the carbon 14 open or Sushi Mafia to see my scumplay.

Image

That is a game (Mushroom Kingdom 1) I wasn't even in, and the posts are ordered like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the reason I have admin tools in Ortohoops is just because I created that quicktopic...

Image

Same...
okay this is a good point, you know I played in War in Heaven right my friend? Where did you get "Nuwens = SCUM" screencaps from quick topic, because I aint even seen them?

You know you are not allowed to talk to your scumpartners once they are dead right......

...also please lets finish are ETHCIS discussion. You NOR your team can win as scum right? Its a yes or no fucking question!
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Post Post #658 (isolation #130) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:40 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@Hops how did you make that whole last post with daytalk in proper order? Do you think J-scope wont read it in the proper order?
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Post Post #660 (isolation #131) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:44 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Dude Hoops you RAWK...did you just nail Jscope? So you posted that because, you are implying that what Jscope did to make sure his post was sequential.... Dude vote, if you are so sure its jscope, just vote them and I will hammer them...after you answer my Ethics question Brother!

I am kinda tired of this game anyway, lol.
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Post Post #662 (isolation #132) » Tue May 12, 2009 3:00 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:I'm confused? What did hoops do?
That was a sarcastic post on my part J-scope.... He has done nothing yet, if he does place a vote on you and if he explains how he and the scum team can not win as scum because of Ethics... I would (again saarcastic) consider hammering you! right now!
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Post Post #664 (isolation #133) » Tue May 12, 2009 3:52 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Can you remind me of why it's unethical if we win as scum again? I don't recall what your argument was ther.
ROFL, No Brother I can't remind you of what you wrote.... the question/statement was you can NOT win as scum.....you wrote it Sir! So if you are sum can you win based on us trying to keep DGB from leaving mafiascum. I would rather lose this game, than lose her! It was a yes or no question Dude...
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Post Post #666 (isolation #134) » Tue May 12, 2009 3:57 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Vote: Otrhohoops!


I warned you asshole about calling me reatrded, and Fruity was the same fucking thing! You lost and if you won as scum, you got a serious fucking ETHICs problem!

@Jscope - if you are the scum you won...congrats. :)

Game over!
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Post Post #668 (isolation #135) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:01 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

nah scum jscope won fruit-cake. ;)
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Post Post #671 (isolation #136) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:11 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:I don't think you're aware of just how unconvincing you're being
lol , dude I have spent the last 12 hours reading this thread.... Tis how me and RR cracked lovers multi ball, tis how we nailed nuwen/yoso and how we nailed you....

....my case has been stated and you still have not put up an Ethics argument on how you can be scum and win this game...this discussion last long after this game is over....and of course the same applies to me if I lied and played off DGB leaving mafiascum forever.

This game lies in J-scope hands because I will not retract my VOTE! ..if RR does fine but I stand by my vote!
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Post Post #673 (isolation #137) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:13 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:I'm fine waiting to see if J-Scope hammers :)
...and I am watching the beads of sweat role down your "virtual fucking" face as he decides. /he wont hammer you because he is TOWN! rofl, you lost sweats, ethics King. ;)
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Post Post #674 (isolation #138) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:14 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:So you're entirely ignoring all the problems I have with your quicktopic? LuL
ANSWER my GOD DAMN question... you can not win as SCUM, right? Neither can Nuwen, right?
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Post Post #676 (isolation #139) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:21 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote::)~ :)~ :)~

I also like how you only just set your status to "appear offline" (because I could previously see you in the users list for Theme Park and now can't, yet you are still posting. Now why would you do that? :)
Dude I am here, I have not left. If you cant see me then I do not know why...Ferris?

lol, Dude you can not win as sum right? Tis a yes or no question?

I love the way you keep tip-toeing around this....
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Post Post #677 (isolation #140) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:28 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

EBWOP

Raging Wishbone wrote:
ortolan wrote::)~ :)~ :)~

I also like how you only just set your status to "appear offline" (because I could previously see you in the users list for Theme Park and now can't, yet you are still posting. Now why would you do that? :)
Dude I am here, I have not left. If you cant see me then I do not know why...Ferris?

lol, Dude you can not win as sum right? Tis a yes or no question?

I love the way you keep tip-toeing around this....
*scum*


Why did Hoops stop posting here, anyway?

Also @ Hoops - How easy would it have been for me and you to nail Jscope - you wrote you could vote him with impunity, both myself and RR could have voted him anytime and jooined your wagon!

STILL WAITING for you to explain how you can NOT WIN, nor can your TEAM or NUWEN win as scum!
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Post Post #678 (isolation #141) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:36 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@jscope - why will he not say he can not win as scum?

gah

*pulls hair out in frustration*
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Post Post #684 (isolation #142) » Tue May 12, 2009 5:57 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

J-Scope wrote:That was a risky move to vote, RW. What is the biggest Ortohoops scumtell to you? Or was it more a collection of things like you say the QT, the ethics issue.

I want to look over today's action phase again, but I promise to be around alot tomorrow.

I'm also curious, which was Hoops' last post?
Rofl...I was right!...J-scope is town!!!!! This game is yours to win or lose Brortha...You would have hammered orthoHopopd if you were scum! Watch how quick orthohoops builds a case on me and RR and decides we are the last scum...pfft, lol

Why did I vote Orthohoops, kinda in the same way I voted Yos/nuwen...I spent 12 hours on this board, going back and forth with someone (like yos/nuw) was trying to see their point of view, read their day talk, and then they insulted me, after was nice to them... Same thing with Orto/hoops tonight, Dude I do not enjoy being picked on called Village idiot, retarted little Brother, and especially Fruity when I am straight.... I did not know Adel was a guy?

...and the personal attacks Orthohoops launched on me...considering I had considere him town all game was the final straw...

J-scope - make this easy on yourself, just have Hoops answer a yes or no question - The one Ethics question he can not answer to keep DGB on mafiacsum.. Can he or his team or Nuwen win as scum?

Meh, even if town loses I win...hoops is teh scum!
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Post Post #685 (isolation #143) » Tue May 12, 2009 5:59 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:J-Scope is not scum, ergo RW is scum (which was already obvious, at least to me, I simply need to convince Jahudo now).

Jahduo 434 was her last post I believe.

Note that RW is totally refusing to even discuss his blatantly fake quicktopic anymore (in favour of some nonsensical ethics discussion I can make neither heads nor tails of?), even though he said he could "post more examples as needed" earlier.
rofl, you lying hypocrite...you begged me to lynch jscope!
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Post Post #686 (isolation #144) » Tue May 12, 2009 6:01 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Also note it was clear from Post 206 onwards that we might use things such as quicktopic screenshot posting to break the game, which is before the first post from qt RW has shown us.

Also look at 660 and 662 where he seems to be suggesting he would happily hammer you.

And finally look at him vote me when I start to scrutinise his quicktopic screenshot, and never make any attempt to explain it.
Dude, I am your best buddy? Gah I thought me and you were gonna lynch Jscpe? (HUGE sarcasm key)

*watches beads of weat roll down Ortos face*

ORTHOHOOPS - you need to post in your HYDRA account according to teh rules!
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Post Post #688 (isolation #145) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:02 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Can you remind me of why it's unethical if we win as scum again? I don't recall what your argument was there.
J-Scope (659) wrote:You were baiting me with that post into getting emotional. I calmed down within a few minutes, mostly because I don't want this to end on a bad note when we have beta to finish.
Hey, I was trying to get a reaction out of you but not to be a dickhead, I just wanted a better read :)

This is very hard, I'm actually finding it really hard to see Jahudo as scum when I compare his play here to in Sushi Mafia. His play seems
far
more analytic and he seems to be putting a lot more effort in. The main thing was him "having it both ways" a bit with Yosarian and not giving the case the attention it deserved at the time.

On the other hand we have Walt's fruity posts and...hey wait a minute doesn't that quicktopic actually look like...
really
fake?

Who the hell says "So that was a nice lynch :)" and "We took some hard losses yesterday"??? That just reads really fake. Plus these posts happened to coincide with Adel making it clear posting these sorts of thing would be allowed (same day, I can't translate time exactly cause I don't know what time they have on their quicktopic).

RW- please show me a screenshot of something, anything you said before the first of May.
I am very much going to vote you at this point otherwise. According to my calculations the first post you've shown after you actually received your role was 6 hours after Adel made it clear that posting quicktopics would be allowed.

Also as you've seen, both us and Jahudo discussed both games in our posts. I'm very unconvinced you have such a long and "pure" post, made with such timing that doesn't even mention beta. Also why did you only show us about one post? I really want to see some unedited posts made after you got your role but before the first of May, and I'd like to see them continually please.
Answer to ScumHoops bolded questions, weaker minds result to personal insults ( I am no exception to the rule, except he started it tonight...Nuwen starte i when I nailed her ass)

Although I changed my mind again... I am "fruity" and want your sweet ass Ortoe.... In response to you questions... Read much? Meh no worries here are a few additional screencaps
to the one we already posted prior to May 1st,
scumbag. ;)

Image

Image

I showed you mine sweety, now you show me yours! (I got more were that came from if you can handle it;) )

Please show me yours "Fruity"... Also, answer this question please...

Can you, the scum team or Nuwen win ethically as scum or without attacking someones FUCKING charcater...it's a yes or no question! I got no problem going 15 rounds with you Orto!
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Post Post #690 (isolation #146) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:13 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:why is that edited so heavily, did you really spend like 16 posts in a row all talking about beta?, and how would RR know when the "hit" on Incamnito was submitted???????????

Please take a screenshot like mine of either of the first two pages and white out anything pertaining to beta.
rofl, all 7...rofl...there is no edits I have 11 screenshots...what more do you want asshole! Your screencaps won this game for TOWN!

You cant answer the ETHICS questions....it has been going on for 15 pages! J-scope wants a yes or no answer as far as I can tell....

But hwho gives A fuck, I kicked your FUCKING ass - I dont need RR or JScope to vote for you... I dstroyed you asshole! Rofl Scum team lost idiot Nuwen, hoops, ortolan, tortsky... I aint waiting to celebrate I am celebrsting now...you guys are stupid scum right with no Ethics?
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Post Post #691 (isolation #147) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:why is that edited so heavily, did you really spend like 16 posts in a row all talking about beta?, and how would RR know when the "hit" on Incamnito was submitted???????????

Please take a screenshot like mine of either of the first two pages and white out anything pertaining to beta.
You Otro, need to take more sreen shots, rofl.

*dances*
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Post Post #692 (isolation #148) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:22 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

rofl, *sits all patient like and looking "FRUITY and CUTE as a fucking Prom queen" like and wait for the Ethics answers regarding DGB...

*winks at Orto*
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Post Post #694 (isolation #149) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:34 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Dude Orto, lets stop this fucking charade, I know I am town, I know jscope is town and you knwo you are scum!

You also know you can not win as SCUM without answering my quetion regarding ETHIC, I have been sking about for the last x-amount of pages...

You just tried a bogus lie, here is the RagingWishbone Alpha WEBSITE rofl.... We are still uploading pictures and take request for a nominal fee. Our feee is $1.00 per view. ;)

http://s607.photobucket.com/albums/tt15 ... gwishbone/

....in addition to calling me Fruity and a retard tonight you stupid FUCKING TWAT. You also know you all can't beat me, I WON, regardless off who convinces RR and Jscope to lynch whoever... I dont fucking care, I beat you Bro. when Jscope did not lynch you ;)

Remember it was hoopd and Raging Wishbone a few pages ago who were gonna lynch jscope...but when Jscope did not hammer you...it proved you scum!

Thhis game lies in Jscopes hands...he gets yo decide who is town and who is scum! Hopefully RR will be around tomorrow, cause I wont, but he will add insight!
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Post Post #696 (isolation #150) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:Fine, seeing as it bothers you so much.

And fruity doesn't only mean "homosexual", and I didn't intend it that way.

Vote: Raging Wishbone


The timing of me doing this is arbitrary, I may as well have done so at any point since you voted me.
I'm sorry Pal....what did you mean to imply by calling me Fruity?

...also have you had the conversation with the Mods about talking to someone outside the game aka: posting Nuwen "scums" screencaps from another game... You all know I could be an alt right? rofl... *winks at Orto*

lol OrtoHoops can you win as scum...it is a yes or no question?
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Post Post #697 (isolation #151) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:42 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:This is why "Too Scummy To Be Scum"; is definitely a fallacy
Can you win as scum...yes or no?
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Post Post #699 (isolation #152) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:58 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:Fine, seeing as it bothers you so much.

And fruity doesn't only mean "homosexual", and I didn't intend it that way.

And this stuff about "DGB claiming she will leave the site" and "abuse" (which I haven't engaged in as far as I'm aware, all I said was one of your thought processes would be retarded if you were town; which is true; but you are not town so it is not an insult [and I wouldn't have thought it a big deal anyway]); is a clear attempt to distract from the main game here; of lynching you.

Please post a whole page from the quicktopic rather than just some heavily edited posts (one of which has a line which makes absolutely no sense for you to post as town)
As you wish cutey...open wide ;)

Image

Image

Your turn for a "reach-around"...now I want to see some part of post 5, 6, 7...blot out the Beta stuff....

...and since you still wonat answer "Fruit Hoops"... Let me ask this in a different way since everyone can see you keep ignoring my question...

Why can you not answer you can not win as scum?
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Post Post #700 (isolation #153) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:01 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:Summary for Jahudo:

- RW still refuses to post a continuous screenshot of his quicktopic, instead going for premeditated individual posts without showing their context.

- He was the one who brought up posting quicktopics recently, having originally had the request made of him by SensFan. If he is scum (from your perspective; I know he is), he would definitely have prepared (or at least attempted to) a quicktopic in advance.

- Most damning of all, he cannot (because it is impossible) explain how he could go from saying in Post 14:

"When did the hit on Incagmito come in, was that submitted before or after he had five votes on him in thread"

to saying in Post 17:

"I am completely lost on how these games work...in Alphat, how was incamnito and trotsky killed?

Trotsky had no votes on him in the thread. (I unvoted until we could talk - sorry). incaminto had five but not enough for a lynch?"

Good game. You didn't play at all badly, RW, you did extremely well to make it to LYOL considering you were one of the top contenders for a lynch after Yos died.
ROFL, I did all of this as you were writing this post....now your turn...please post shots of your 5, 6, and 7 shots...also

You Lost cause you can not and REFUSE to answer the ETHICS question!
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Post Post #702 (isolation #154) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:04 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:First two pages please; I said that before. These are all after you had motivation to fake and prove nothing when I've already caught you making entirely contradictory posts.
...and you cant win as scum why? Please pos pages five to 7 since I spoted a full page for ya!
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Post Post #703 (isolation #155) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:05 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

..and you did not ask for two pages you lying sack of shit...and I want you to explain Fruity to me fuck face!
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Post Post #705 (isolation #156) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:14 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:
dictionary.com wrote:1. resembling fruit; having the taste or smell of fruit.
2. rich in flavor; pungent.
3. excessively sweet or mellifluous; cloying; syrupy: a specialist in fruity prose; to read poetry in a fruity voice.
4. Slang. insane; crazy.
5. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. homosexual.
I was using definition numero four.
ortolan (689) wrote:Please take a screenshot like mine of either of the first two pages and white out anything pertaining to beta.
There it is. If you're town surely you should be jumping at the chance to prove you are town and get me lynched by posting one of the first two pages, which must be just filled with content considering how large your later posts were??? You're putting a lot of effort into debating me when it would be far easier just to prove me wrong by providing the requested screenshots? Both pages would be just dandy, white out anything you don't want.
Damn so you are telling everyone who is reading this board you think I resemble fruit, I am rich in flavor...ROFLMFAO... Are Ya Flirting with me since I beat ya this game.... ya everyone buys that is what you meant.

*rollsyes*

Here is a full page for ya...where yours? ;) Or at least posts 5, 6, 7?

Image

Image


lmfao, and inquiring minds want to know and keep asking can you win as scum? It is a yes or no question, lmao.
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Post Post #707 (isolation #157) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:19 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

...and actually to add you are such a fucking cunt. I will lose any other game to win this game! You want the first fucking page, fine if RR does not mop the floor with you Tomorrow Fruit Loops...you got it.... I ill post those pages!

but you need to do two things first... Post 5,6,7 and also explain why you cant win as scum...inquiring minds want to know. rofl... Fuck I am redundant. ;)
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Post Post #708 (isolation #158) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:24 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Not what I asked for, and no explanation is forthcoming for why your screenshot in 688 is so heavily cropped, contradicts a later post and why you cannot simply post the whole page.
Dude much better than your day talk moron..your daytalk was so impressive and believeable... also why cant you win as scum? Inquiring minds want to know.

I cant beleive a man with the vocabulary of a chimp knows that the 4th dfinition of fruit means insane, considering he has no clue there is more dicitionaries beyond wiki... Hey sweet pie... there is Webster, Oxford, New Hertage, Wiki, New Centuray, not to metniotn this is an international board speaking/writing a few thusand different languages and more dialects then you will ever know in your lifetime...so PLEASE dont ATTEMPT to impress anyone using a crap dictionary... I was born in Trukmenistant...there is nly one definition for fruity beyond a fruit... and that is gay! If you didn't mean it that way YOU better be very fucking carefull the way you speak to people in the Furture!
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Post Post #711 (isolation #159) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:37 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:you will find that definition in most online dictionaries but I'm sorry if I offended you :)

other terms I could have used include "kooky" or "eccentric"

I also use dictionary.com mainly for convenience of remembering url
lol sure you use it on a daily basis. ... ;)

No worries Man...also accoriding to the rules you need to post in your HYDRA!

So inquring minds want to know... Can you win as scum... Yes or no?

Also, please post 5,6, 7 Bro... Dude if you get jscopes vote I will ruin another game to win this one. You pulled the "retard" and "fruity" card. I was nothing but nice to you with no personal insults!
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Post Post #712 (isolation #160) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:39 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Also, posting stuff pertaining to beta here will you get you modkilled
here
as far as I'm aware. I do suggest you white it out but not being able to post any of it is pretty unconvincing. I also don't see why you need RR's approval to post the quicktopic now :)
Dude why do you care YOU, Nuwen and the rest of the scum team already lost.. to ME!. I dont give a fuck who is declared winner.... Lets get into the ethics of it NOW! Why did you say you can not win as scum?
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Post Post #715 (isolation #161) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:48 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:you will find that definition in most online dictionaries but I'm sorry if I offended you :)

other terms I could have used include "kooky" or "eccentric"

I also use dictionary.com mainly for convenience of remembering url
In otherwords, of course OrtoHoops I appreciate your apology. However it does not change the past...you pissed me off, I voted you (probably anger, omgus - you name it - right or wrong) but, Jscope did not hammer you. Therefore, you are
SCUM.


@Jscpe - Ortohops - entire case against me is not pasting my first page... Well I cant cause it contains posts from another game... Although, I got no problem ruining another game to win this one after he called me Fruity and implied I was retarded... (dont let orthohoops false threats scare ya). We TOWN already won!

And @ Hoops - inquiring minds want to know, why cant you win as scum?

Also please post, posts 5,6, 7.... I keep showing you mine sweety...Show me yours, j/k, lol!
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Post Post #717 (isolation #162) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:58 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:
Adel: we voted RW in 693 :)

RW (715) wrote:@Jscpe - Ortohops - entire case against me is not pasting my first page... Well I cant cause it contains posts from another game... Although, I got no problem ruining another game to win this one after he called me Fruity and implied I was retarded... (dont let orthohoops false threats scare ya). We TOWN already won!
If you post stuff about the other game, you will get modkilled in
this
one. White out anything pertaining to beta, but just show your first two pages please. It's totally implausible that you wouldn't have talked about alpha at all, especially when you got your role pms at the same time.

You also cannot explain why you clearly contradicted yourself in Posts 14 and 17.

This ethics thing is a clear attempt to distract.
Inwuiring minds want to know...can you win as scum?
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Post Post #718 (isolation #163) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:00 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:
Adel: we voted RW in 693 :)

RW (715) wrote:@Jscpe - Ortohops - entire case against me is not pasting my first page... Well I cant cause it contains posts from another game... Although, I got no problem ruining another game to win this one after he called me Fruity and implied I was retarded... (dont let orthohoops false threats scare ya). We TOWN already won!
If you post stuff about the other game, you will get modkilled in
this
one. White out anything pertaining to beta, but just show your first two pages please. It's totally implausible that you wouldn't have talked about alpha at all, especially when you got your role pms at the same time.

You also cannot explain why you clearly contradicted yourself in Posts 14 and 17.

This ethics thing is a clear attempt to distract.
You also refuse to post one word in pots 5, 6, 7.

Youu alos refuse to explain why scum did not kill ya "obvtown - 2 days ago?"...

You also wanted Jscope lynched earlier today...but when I refused you decided to go after me...
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Post Post #719 (isolation #164) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:03 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Ortohoops wrote:When you have a vanilla townie's role pm, it is impossible to win as scum
rofl , this is a good post, why did you make me ask you so many times before writing this. (woot, cnt wait for the post game discussion Fruit Hoops.;)) j/k, lol...

answer my other questions please. :)

I cant honor your requests because it ruins anothe rgame... I will to win this one if I need to. Dude posting something from another thread gets me modkilled there not HERE! Besides me and RR already won. lol. ;)
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Post Post #722 (isolation #165) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:12 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:All the stuff I whited out, while some of it was about alpha, had references to beta. I edited one of my posts to take the stuff out when you requested it but Hoops didn't want to, plus my editing made her last post nonsensical. I took out everything which could be used to infer anything about beta.
The word "The" at least in Turkmensitan, does not refer o any othe rgame on the face of the Earth and considering I put over 24 YES, 24 hours into snippping and posting our 14 pages worth of screencaps... Damn, Dude why dont you put a little effor into it!
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Post Post #723 (isolation #166) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:13 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:All the stuff I whited out, while some of it was about alpha, had references to beta. I edited one of my posts to take the stuff out when you requested it but Hoops didn't want to, plus my editing made her last post nonsensical. I took out everything which could be used to infer anything about beta.
Please p[ost 5,6,7...at least tmes and dates, before you ask me again to post my page one concerning anoteher game sexy. ;)
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Post Post #725 (isolation #167) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:00 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Raging Wishbone wrote:It's Ortohoops guys. Please take a look at all of these daytalk threads from Lovers Multiball...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=2575

Please go to
post#2593
and click on each of these links to quicktopics...

----

Mafia
Werewolves
ThAdmiral & Xtoxm/DarlaBlueEyes
DrippingGoofball/Spacecase/OpposedForce/starrie & Darox/Raffles/wolframnhart
Crazy & Knight of Cydonia/farside22
Waltwishbone & Raging Rabbit
charter & Cephrir
Adel/Ennui2778 & Toaster Strudel/pwnz
Harvey Pew & ace1217cerebus3
Alabaska J & kloud1516/dybeck

------

EVERY SINGLE one, the posts are all in reverse order. Look at our and Jscopes posts from this game, the posts are numbered in reverse order!!!

The ONLY daytalk that starts at 1 and goes in a choronological (by dates, post number) order is Ortohoops. I am not going to vote I would like to hear what you Jscope and RR think. I also would like to hear if Ortohoops has a logical explanation for this, but those are my feelings....

Please take a look at these posts again, side by side...

Image

Image

...and

Image

Also reading through Ortolans game as Godfather here,

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

It just reads to me as the same way he has approached this game. He flew under the radar, like he was "spoon feeding us cough sryup and yet told us it was candy." Like a "Dentists saying a shot of novocaine won't hurt", lol...

@RR - You were in that game with him, what is your "scum"Orto read?

This is how I feel would love to hear opinions...
Just posting this again in response to Fruit loops post..

AGAIN
, and to be clear I made a mistake voting for Fruit hoops... I should have waited to hear everyone else opinion... It does not FUCKING matter anymore...

When JSCOPE did not hammer us it proved Jscope town and the scum is either us or Fruit hoops.

Right or wrong, he implied my post was retarded for no reason... I warned him not to do it again....and he called me Fruity.... So I got angry voted for him, Omgussed him without and care in the world...same way we kinda nailed yos/Nuwen and the way me and RR nailed Sleepy panada/Armix...

lol, read that discussion in Lovers multiball it makes me and Fruits hoops convo seem like an argument for a parking space, rofl....

Anyways, Hoops big case on us is not posting our beta pages... No worries, I got no problem doing it when he posts hi 5,6, 7.... all he needs to do is post the time and date and a few words...gah
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Post Post #726 (isolation #168) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:06 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@Also scumbag Hoops I wont point out that you already lost this fucking game when you tried to convice me and RR to lynch JSCOPE... When we refused and pointed out how bad your daytalk was you went after us! Sorry Fruity...you lost. ;)
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Post Post #727 (isolation #169) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:09 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Lastly Jscope - you are the one who wanted to know why Fruit Hoops was not lynched today? It was a n ecellent question adnd got us here...

Sorry guys, I got pissed off, bithed, whined and moaned and omgusssed fruit loops, but when JSCope did not lynch us RR...we learned he was town Too...

The game is your to win or lose Jscope, please win this one for TOWN. :)
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Post Post #729 (isolation #170) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:44 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:Still no defence of your post 17 compared to 14 after all the times I've brought it up? :) :) :)
Lol, dude there is no contradiction between 14 and 17, I aksed rr how incam was killed... I had no clue how the set up of a Deep South game worked....he hleped me. ;)

Why do you think scum did not kill you over NYBALLS? me or Jscoe... Why did you want jscope dead until I voted ya. ;) So now you are convinced I am scum?

You lost tihis game as scum fruit hoops when you told me you have ETHICS!
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Post Post #731 (isolation #171) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:59 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

ortolan wrote:You clearly asked "when was the kill put in; when he had 5 votes or before?", which implies obviously firstly that you know he was killed; and secondly; that you are asking your scumbuddy when the kill was put in.

Then in 17 you are clearly feigning ignorance after knowing your quicktopic will be audited, pretending you can't understand how someone died with only five votes on them.
rofl, he was dead idiot! We all had knowledge of it. rofl, Dude do you read at all or do you just make this shit up as you go along.

...actually you are trying to deflect the whole numbering thing aint ya? And I am hlping by buying nto to your bullshit? yes no maybe....

What did you have an epiphany Genius? Did you discover the fourth mening of fruit accord ing to some online dictionary? rofl...oh boy, you are a piece f work...
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Post Post #732 (isolation #172) » Tue May 12, 2009 11:02 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Raging Wishbone wrote:
ortolan wrote:Still no defence of your post 17 compared to 14 after all the times I've brought it up? :) :) :)
Lol, dude there is no contradiction between 14 and 17, I aksed rr how incam was killed... I had no clue how the set up of a Deep South game worked....he hleped me. ;)

Why do you think scum did not kill you over NYBALLS? me or Jscoe... Why did you want jscope dead until I voted ya. ;) So now you are convinced I am scum?

You lost tihis game as scum fruit hoops when you told me you have ETHICS!
You cant win as scum can you...cant wait to see ya explain this to the rest of the town, rofl!
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Post Post #733 (isolation #173) » Tue May 12, 2009 11:03 pm

Post by Raging Wishbone »

@Ortho - Please answer my questions NAO! ;)
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Post Post #735 (isolation #174) » Wed May 13, 2009 2:17 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

...So this is RR again, and I gotta admit the last 4 pages with all the gay banter are fucking hilarious. Big props to orthoops for playing this almost flawlessly and totally convincing me that they're town, and also for maintaining a calm approach throughout the night's onslaught. Unfortunately for them, at this point I think it should be rather obvious that they're scum.

Some of Walt's points don't apply at all (I myself have the quicktopic numbered the same way as orthoops), some like the ethics thing I'm not sure I understand properly and he's not around to explain right now, he had a quick chat with me on Ort being scum and a bastard and went to sleep. A cursory look at Orthoops' early play shows some examples of SK hunting that's typical of scum, but other than that I don't see much and don't think it'd do much good for me to start nitpicking their well played early game for any tiny hint of them being scum when they've had me so convinced of their towniness up until now. However, two major points that should make things simple:

A.
ortolan wrote:Image

I realise this doesn't prove much and potentially makes us look scummy because it has us speculating about a second mafia, which could well imply we are in the first mafia

The whited out stuff included references to beta.
ortolan wrote:Image

To explain: the test post was for comparing the difference between US time and my time so I could work out how your timestamps compared to Adel's

The edit was when I originally edited the post to remove beta related content (it then made the next post nonsensical as I said so I took that out as well, but it's there now, although it doesn't say anything). The reason I didn't edit out this edit stamp this time though is that I realised you can just edit any post you made and make entirely fake logs and simply take out the "edited" stamp, like I could have done- the posts will still have the original posting time. So this method of verifying ourselves has in fact proven nothing at all.

I will say however that I think it's more of a scumtell that your qt was so much bigger than both ours and J-Scope's, but that you could only selectively quote one post at a time whereas we were happy to post ours in their entirety. I will also point out that I caught you blatantly contradicting yourself between posts 14 and 17 (which you have proven yourself unable to explain), which really should be enough to end the game at this point. I won't point out that your play has reeked of scum all game and Yoswen did call you scummy before they were lynched- we all assumed this was reverse WIFOM and they were trying to implicate a townie by pretending to "fake-suspect" them, but the other conclusion, that they were providing a busing advantage was clearly the correct one.

If Jahudo intends to vote for me I will happily answer any questions he has, but for now I am waiting for his decision.
1. Both ort and Hoops were very active at the start of the game. Why so little talk, then? Why doesn't hoops even mention her thoughts on the lynching quick plan she pushed hard for early in the game? Why no talk about who's scum, other than another scumgroup? Simple answer, which is the only one that makes sense - they did most of their talking in the scum thread.
2. Why the fuck would they tag me and Walt as part of the "other scumgroup" without even mentioning the possibilty we're scum
with
Yos and Trots? They know we aren't, 'cause they are, and the only scumhunting they're doing is looking for potential other bad guys.
3. Why did ort black out so much in the first post, then suddenly revealed lines like hoops saying "nah, that's probably just Yos and Trotsky's scumgroups' name"? I smell foul play.


B. If you reread just after nyba's kill, you can clearly tell how orthoops is getting ready to vote J-Scope along with us to end the game. You can also clearly tell how Walt is beginning to have second thoughts, and how he complicates things and starts this whole discussion that lead to 'Scope having the call on who wins this.
Why, oh why, would scum-Walt want to complicate things when Ort is so willing to vote Scope along with him and hand scum-Walt he win?
Ort's gonna call WIFOM on this, but why go there when you have a so much simpler route to winning by basically doing nothing? Read 26-28 and you can clearly tell how ort was acting in complete accordance with a scum plan to kill nyba and lynch J-Scope, while Walt obviously wasn't.



Jahudo, take a good hard look at these. You've got 'till 1200 May 14th UTC to decide before Ort wins this.
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Post Post #739 (isolation #175) » Wed May 13, 2009 2:22 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

:shock:
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Post Post #740 (isolation #176) » Wed May 13, 2009 2:24 am

Post by Raging Wishbone »

Forget the time I just spent trying to rework my entire gameview... What really pains me is how devastated Walt's gonna be.
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