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Post Post #325 (isolation #0) » Sat May 02, 2009 3:14 am

Post by ortolan »

I
said "Incamnito looks as good as caught scum" in 35. That was not a genuine sentiment, but intended as an extension of random voting phase/for pressure
J-Scope (324) wrote:Why? It looks like your two heads contradict each other then and now. You liked the wagon and you didn't explicitly mention the crumb but you did say let's focus on this game. Both me and myself liked the wagon but we explicitly said we didn't believe in the crumb. There in lies the difference, because now you do believe in the crumb when conveniently you ignored discussing it until you could use it in your favor to push a second wagon. Why ignore commenting on it the first time?
I
still
don't understand the crumb. Clearly it was a crumb though, Nuwen said it was an "information role", and Incamnito was a tracker
J-Scope (324) wrote:Her defense was that you pushed the wagon with reasoning while she only kept it at a joke vote. That you were the one to say, let's focus on this game. Tell me, if you were so focused on this game did YOU catch that Incamn had crumbed and it was outed?
I have no idea what you're saying here. I (ortolan) clearly didn't push the wagon, beyond post 35. I can't process your second sentence and to your third- no, I didn't notice/recognise the crumb the crumb and wouldn't necessarily have believed it if I had.
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Post Post #387 (isolation #1) » Sun May 03, 2009 2:11 am

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PokeTheAlpaca (375) wrote:I'd argue there vote was ahh crap looks like I can't help yoswen anymore. Fuck I'll bus them.
Yer being the third vote on the wagon of scum is blatantly scummy but not joining the wagon at all is squeaky clean. If, as you're suggesting here, Yoswen was caught scum before we placed our vote (on L-5) how come you never even filled one of the remaining four voting slots after we placed our vote, scummy scum scum?
PTA (375) wrote:Huh? Is it just me or did ortlon just go from defending yoswen perception of a crumb to frog to attacking yoswen for pointing the crumb out all in one post?
Here's how it is. That address was to Frog Dodging in my re-read. As I (and Hoops, and loads of other people said), pointing out the breadcrumb, like Nuwen did, was clearly bad play if scum. That is a point against them being scum, until you realise that on the other hand, the play makes no sense as town either. I think my post makes this thought process clear. It's why I go from a somewhat aggressive response to Froggy to declaring him obv-town (well, at least, obv-not mafia). In fact, it was entirely true that it was bad play for scum. They were scum, and it was a bad play. Anything else?
RW (379) wrote:I think if you read between FD's lines you should easily be able to tell that they want the game slowed down to an extent I (and orthoops) find very dangerous.
You can tell from his posts (and leading bandwagon against scum) that this is not the case.
RW (380) wrote:332 Yos tags an easy vote on us for the Walt changing his mind thing. I still think he probably has a reasonable explanation for this.
You're right.
Yos (332) wrote:Anyway, my main suspect right now is Raging Wishbone. Early on, they were defending me; then all of a sudden they turned around and joined my wagon, for reasons that make absolutly no sense at all. And it's interesting to note that he was not willing to hammer me, but wanted on to the bandwagon when it wasn't a hammer; which just makes it look like he knows the wagon is going to go bad, and dosn't want to take the blame for it.
...This was a crappy reason. What a good way to make your scumbuddy look good when you flip scum.
RW (383) wrote:Why would Yos' buddy add his vote to put Yos at L-1, but specifically go out of his way to mention he isn't willing to hammer? Someone else will hammer instead, he's done his share towards killing his only remaining teammate, and to bus gains less pro town points because of the not willing to hammer bit. Saying that but still voting him doesn't protect Yos one bit. This makes no sense at all.
Repeat after me. W-I-F-O-M.

...Anyway why would a townie care whether they were the L-1 or the L vote on a wagon? Why would you comment on it to begin with?
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Post Post #428 (isolation #2) » Sun May 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Post by ortolan »

I don't see any reason not to believe your claim, two trackers is a bit odd but certainly understandable with our mod and with a roleblocker and doctor in the setup. We also know there is no mafia tracker role, and two scum already dead, so you cannot be on a scum-team with them busing them. It is also kind of inconceivable you would fake a result like that, if you are wrong (e.g. if you're another scum faction and suspect them and want to get them lynched to gain brownie points) you are taking a huge risk by coming forward. With two trackers in the game I'm also inclined to believe there is no cop, which means there will be no way of ever verifying their alignment (can't distinguish between vig or SK, or mafia), and their lynch will be necessary at some point.

They are also on Death's wagon.

clearly they are a better lynch though. Get this lynch through quick.
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Post Post #472 (isolation #3) » Mon May 04, 2009 4:22 pm

Post by ortolan »

J-Scope (470) wrote:Are we officially massclaiming?
Looks like it to me. Please claim without delay. We also need claims from nyb Raging and Zmd

Activity levels in the game at this point are very very likely to determine the outcome.
J-Scope (470) wrote:I need to re-read to determine who is most scummy.
J-Scope is my pick for scum right now. The "avoiding populous wagons" I referred to earlier was them tunneling on us and cross-defending Yosarian while pretty much neglecting to comment on the Yos wagon itself in 318 and 326. I've seen delaying from them all game.
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Post Post #475 (isolation #4) » Mon May 04, 2009 9:22 pm

Post by ortolan »

I was actually incorrect about there being more unattributed kills.

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but the scum don't get to make another kill for a few days?

If we can get a consensus of most scummy to least scummy then we can just quicklynch down the list repeatedly. As long as the scum are in the first five and we do this before the next action phase starts we auto-win. How does this sound to people?
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Post Post #477 (isolation #5) » Mon May 04, 2009 11:10 pm

Post by ortolan »

RW (476) wrote:quicklynching based on an arbitrary list
determined by voting does not equal arbitrary, certainly not more than any other method we could use of deciding who to lynch.

and correct me if I'm wrong here, but logically, and mathematically, just waiting for the scum to make more kills does not appear to stand us in better stead.

It seems there can only be one scumbag left, as implied by the mod's opening post (the mafia faction
is
three player, there cannot be an SK as there was a compulsive vig, and there were in fact no kills to account for another killing faction. We can kill everyone up until there's only 2 people left alive, in which case the scum, if still alive, will endgame the townie.

If we lynch down the suspects list at present, we have 5/7 of a chance of hitting scum based on random lynching (I would hope town skill would raise this probability). If, however, we wait for the scum to make another kill the chance then becomes only 4/6, or 2/3. One scum night-kill later and it's 3/5. Thus it is better to start lynching down the list sooner rather than later. Does anyone have any issues with this probabilistic reasoning?

Now I acknowledge that if some people don't post in a while there may be practical issues with this quicklynching process- if for example a new action phase begins when we're in the middle of lynching. This is why for pragmatic reasons we may to need to wait until the next action phase to start doing it, in which case it will only yield 4/6, or 2/3 of working. However this probability is still better than 3/5.

Additionally I don't see how waiting for the scum to make another night-kill is going to help us determine who they are in this setup. They will presumably pick targets to best WIFOM us/give us no information.

J-Scope and nyb have yet to claim (funny because they're both my biggest suspects now, replacing RW, before I re-read). They really, really ought to do so. We may not yet need to consider my plan, but I would still like comments on it.
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Post Post #482 (isolation #6) » Tue May 05, 2009 7:43 pm

Post by ortolan »

well, vanilla means they don't get a night action and therefore can't target anyone, yes.

What do you have SensFan? I hope it's a night action, I was going to vote Zmd anyway.

While I've played with Kmd in countless games I don't think he's ever been scum in any of them. I've played with ZazieR before where she was a proficient assassin (won the game) in assassin in the hospital.

That said I find their constant contribution of pretty much non-content early in the game scummy as well as their failure to take strong stands on anyone, scummy.

As springlullaby (I assume) said earlier I don't like their constant defences against lurking.

I also dislike the "updating people's relative standings" thing they do every post. I think I've seen Kmd do it before but I believe that was when he was a mime (paired jester) in Paris Mafia. These sorts of player-lists are usually frowned upon as being easily posted by scum to feign activity. Additionally I find it wierd that they
both
seemed to do it every post for a period of time (or else it was just one of them posting). Seems wierd that they'd play so constantly with one another, almost premeditated.

When I re-read I felt substantially better about Pesco Light's play. None of Pesco's (they seemed to be the majority of contributions) posts said anything unjustified.

I will say I'm pretty neutral on Zaphod. I obviously find it hard to read DGB :D But Plum hasn't seemed to be as useful/pro-town as she will openly tell you she usually looks. This might be something to do with the general higher standard of play this game, I'm not sure.

nyb still needs to claim and I will vote Zmd pending SensFan's announcement.
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Post Post #483 (isolation #7) » Tue May 05, 2009 10:35 pm

Post by ortolan »

constantly = consistently above
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Post Post #486 (isolation #8) » Wed May 06, 2009 1:37 am

Post by ortolan »

waiting for A&B to claim their results. This should be interesting, and currently it looks like as long as we lynch A&B and Zmd we're guaranteed to win, because Sens already softclaim-contradicted Zmd's vanilla claim
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Post Post #495 (isolation #9) » Wed May 06, 2009 6:55 pm

Post by ortolan »

SensFan has been posting elsewhere without posting in this game (something which would require one minute simply to tell us exactly what his results are).

His question to Zmd about night one actions makes no sense- Zmd claimed vanilla, he cannot have a night action on any night, if he claimed to be a vanilla and SensFan had an action on any night there
could not
be any other conclusion than that Zmd was scum.

xofelf has also been posting elsewhere on site.

I am about to vote for Apples & Bananas.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #10) » Wed May 06, 2009 7:20 pm

Post by ortolan »

It's kind of ironic this coincides with him talking in Mafia Discussion about how he likes to fake V/LA :D
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Post Post #500 (isolation #11) » Wed May 06, 2009 8:03 pm

Post by ortolan »

Jah
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Post Post #509 (isolation #12) » Thu May 07, 2009 2:01 am

Post by ortolan »

- If he claimed vanilla, why did you need to ask him specifically: "so, you didn't target anyone night 1"
- Why did you target Zmd?
- Who were your other targets, and why did you target them?

- Your story re: "trakcer" checks out.

And here I (almost) break the setup:
Frog Dodging (440) wrote:Action Phase 1 we tracked Yosariwen, who strangely enough we got no result on.
Mafia doctor (roflcopter) cannot submit a kill due to Hippocratic oath.

If Apples & Bananas is indeed a tracker, this
clears
Zmd because they
cannot
have submitted N1 kill.

I just previewed; why are you voting us?
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Post Post #511 (isolation #13) » Thu May 07, 2009 2:13 am

Post by ortolan »

It wasn't a case, it was pressure for you to reveal your results as at the time your behaviour made no sense. And it had nothing to do with the MD discussion itself, it was the fact you were posting in MD when all you had to do was reveal your results which would take two minutes. It was particularly suspicious when you were lurking so close to the turnover of a new action phase. We are actually already one hour
into
the new action phase now, which I believe means a scum-kill can potentially take place within only five hours.
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Post Post #513 (isolation #14) » Thu May 07, 2009 2:23 am

Post by ortolan »

^^ My reason for voting you
was not
based on an assessment of your play all game, but purely your actions in not revealing your results (which would take two minutes), at a crucial time-dependent point in the game; while instead putting more than two minutes total worth of work into posting in Mafia Discussion.

If I was really a tracker I'd be panicking about getting my results out before I get killed.

Your suggestion that "I wouldn't claim tracker, the hardest role to fake" is actually quite bizarre in this context also, because we know all the possible roles from the opening post. Furthermore we know there's already been a mafia doctor and roleblocker, and two trackers. What other role would you be better to fake-claim as scum?
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Post Post #515 (isolation #15) » Thu May 07, 2009 2:27 am

Post by ortolan »

SensFan (510) wrote:I was trying to scare him into panicking, since if he is the last Scum, I wanted him to think I had a result on him.
Um, actually I just realised this logic is also fail. If you are a tracker, and got no result on him, then even if he is scum he
knows
he didn't put in the kill (or do anything else for that matter) on night one. What were you hoping to accomplish exactly???
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Post Post #516 (isolation #16) » Thu May 07, 2009 2:29 am

Post by ortolan »

SensFan (514) wrote:Let's pretend I fakeclaim Tracker.
Then someone else claims Doc.
I'm asked to Track him.
I lose unless I guess right.
You kill the doctor then say that's what the mafia would have done???
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Post Post #518 (isolation #17) » Thu May 07, 2009 2:53 am

Post by ortolan »

So...you still believe in your vote on us? [Why?]
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Post Post #522 (isolation #18) » Thu May 07, 2009 5:21 am

Post by ortolan »

Someone's gonna die soon. As soon as that happens I fully support quicklynching down the list, as fast as possible
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Post Post #525 (isolation #19) » Thu May 07, 2009 5:45 am

Post by ortolan »

Um...scratch that, I wasn't paying attention LuL. Zmd is not cleared, Yos was the doctor, not Trotsky.
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Post Post #527 (isolation #20) » Thu May 07, 2009 6:30 am

Post by ortolan »

You are continuing to utterly fail to justify why we are scum in any way
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Post Post #528 (isolation #21) » Thu May 07, 2009 6:38 am

Post by ortolan »

Dunno if it's a moot point or not, but
SensFan (526) wrote:Trotsky and Yos both had VERY powerful roles; I see no reason why the third Scum wouldn't submit a kill OR use an action.
Yos didn't even target anyone...

And Trotsky may have submitted the night one kill...
SensFan (526) wrote: That, and the fact I crumbed Tracker heavily enough I probably couldn't have gotten away with claiming anything else, even if it was well before a MC.
I
certainly wouldn't have noticed your breadcrumbs otherwise.
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Post Post #536 (isolation #22) » Thu May 07, 2009 5:29 pm

Post by ortolan »

I'm still quite suspect of A&B.
SensFan (533) wrote:I'm treating ZMD as pseudo-confirmed until 3p LyLo.
Firstly for some reason (if he actually is a tracker) he is assuming if the mafia were Yos, Zmd and Trotsky; then it is improbable that Trotsky would submit the kill over Zmd. There is no reason for this assumption. Here he also seems to be assuming he's going to be in the final 3 players, yet if he really is a tracker, he is guaranteed to be about to die (especially with all the vanilla claims i.e. no doctor). He is also seemingly leaving himself room to lynch Zmd if he does end up in a 3-person LYOL with him.

- I am suspicious of your choices of watching PokeTheAlpaca and DeathTheHogfather. Can you explain why you chose those two players at those points in the game please?

- You are yet to justify your vote on us.
Zmd (535) wrote:If they are tracked, what are they going to claim? Town roleblocker who happened to block the same player who was killed? And on a player who had breadcrumbed a town power role? I don't see it. I still think the player who killed on Day 1 is alive right now.
This puts them only in the same position any other mafiate would be if they were tracked.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #23) » Fri May 08, 2009 3:59 am

Post by ortolan »

SensFan (540) wrote:You are pushing to have me lynched, I'm sure, since I'm tracking your sorry ass this phase, and you want to be able to kill someone else.
If you were town this would be an extremely anti-town thing to say. If I was the scum I'd just kill you. If anyone else was the scum they'd just kill you to avoid you confirming me, and make me look scummy. Either way I would look scummy.
SensFan (540) wrote:Right. But Trotsky could have used his Block, in which case he would have been tracked to ANOTHER person. It makes no sense to assume the RB submitted the kill.
That's not what I'm saying, I'm just saying it makes no sense to assume the roleblocker
didn't
submit the kill, thereby confirming Zmd.
SensFan (540) wrote:I could, but I simply can't be assed to do so at this point, since I'm leaving for the weekend in a bit.
Well please do so when you get back then. It seems odd to me that you happened to track the only two vanilla townies who have died thus far. Furthermore, you had to tell the mod who you were going to track before the relevant action phases. During action phase one you never expressed any suspicion of PokeTheAlpaca (and I didn't find using ctrl+f any mentions by him of you either). And...you never mention Hogfather at all during action phase 2.
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Post Post #568 (isolation #24) » Fri May 08, 2009 9:26 pm

Post by ortolan »

moi
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Post Post #573 (isolation #25) » Sat May 09, 2009 12:26 am

Post by ortolan »

Today we can either do one or three lynches. It will depend on who posts. I'm thinking three lynches is likely to be practically difficult, in which case we will need to do one, wait till the kill gets committed tomorrow, then do the last.

Also, because I want to know this for both games:

Mod: If someone submits a kill, will this kill go through no matter what within 6 to 18 hours? E.g. what if they submit a kill then 3 hours later get lynched. Will that kill resolve before they get lynched, or still resolve after they get lynched, or not resolve at all?
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Post Post #574 (isolation #26) » Sat May 09, 2009 12:26 am

Post by ortolan »

EBWOP: Sorry, 6 to 30 hours
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Post Post #579 (isolation #27) » Sat May 09, 2009 4:05 am

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the fact they have already made it today
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Post Post #586 (isolation #28) » Sat May 09, 2009 10:20 pm

Post by ortolan »

Deary.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #29) » Sat May 09, 2009 10:22 pm

Post by ortolan »

Two lynches is definitely not viable before the end of the action phase, we need to wait until the scum makes their final kill.
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Post Post #591 (isolation #30) » Sun May 10, 2009 10:56 am

Post by ortolan »

I would go for J-Scope or RW for the lynch.
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Post Post #595 (isolation #31) » Sun May 10, 2009 8:29 pm

Post by ortolan »

We will do it but it won't prove much because we will need to edit two out of seven posts to remove beta-related content.
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Post Post #597 (isolation #32) » Sun May 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Post by ortolan »

Now we play the waiting game...
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Post Post #601 (isolation #33) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:03 am

Post by ortolan »

What are you talking about RW? How did we miss a safe-lynch?

When the next action phase starts (T-1 hour), we need to wait for the scum to make their kill, then lynch quickly.
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Post Post #602 (isolation #34) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:05 am

Post by ortolan »

RW: can you point me to where you had the discussion about posting screenshots of quicktopics, then post yours. I want time to look at it because I see it as possible you guys premeditated it and planned for it all along.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #35) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:19 am

Post by ortolan »

No, but, seriously, at what point did we miss a safe lynch, apart from about 3 days ago?

We can't have done anything else up until this point.
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Post Post #605 (isolation #36) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:20 am

Post by ortolan »

no, I am just wanting to know where specifically the screenshotting was discussed as I didn't notice it on a cursory re-read
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Post Post #607 (isolation #37) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:34 am

Post by ortolan »

J-Scope (606) wrote:Self-survival is hard to judge. I think you are doing it too. It is clear to me that one of us is more likely the lynch, but this time choosing wrong costs us the game. So yes, I am thinking of self-survival.
I don't like how this reads. You are acknowledging that one of you or RW is the more likely lynch, but saying you can understand his behaviour from a townie perspective. However your thought process as town should be "I am not scum, I am not voting for nyb or Ortohoops therefore RW is scum".
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Post Post #608 (isolation #38) » Mon May 11, 2009 12:42 am

Post by ortolan »

I will also point out before this next action phase begins (20 minutes away) that when the scum-kill is made, you/we need to lynch
before
the next action phase starts.

As soon as the next action phase starts, assuming there are 3 people alive, the scum can put in a kill which, while it would normally take 6-18 hours to resolve; if they are lynched, it resolves before they are lynched resulting in them endgaming. So, when the scum kill is made, you/we need to lynch
before
Action Phase 6 starts.
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Post Post #611 (isolation #39) » Mon May 11, 2009 1:58 am

Post by ortolan »

nyb, I think you need a briefing in how the rules work: the days are entirely independent of action phases

Scum get a new kill every action phase (time dependent), a new day is heralded by us lynching someone, and comes with an obligatory twilight period of 6-18 hours after the lynch occurs during which neither night actions can be submitted nor lynches made. It's presumably to avoid the very strategy we proposed- to simply speedlynch down a list yielding high odds of a town win.

Frankly, I'm not sure what to make of your misunderstanding of the fact. I would hope displaying such an apparent ignorance of the game mechanics (which wouldn't be genuinely possible if you were scum) is a town-tell.

I still do want to see day-talk screenshots from all ;)
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Post Post #613 (isolation #40) » Mon May 11, 2009 4:28 am

Post by ortolan »

I would probably vote for J-Scope at this stage, just throwing it out there

that is very, very pending RW posting their quicktopic and it being heavily scrutinised, as well as nyby
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Post Post #629 (isolation #41) » Mon May 11, 2009 8:24 pm

Post by ortolan »

Do not no lynch.

Check with Adel but I think scum can abuse it by putting in a kill one minute before the end of this action phase, which then goes through just as it turns over, and then they put in another kill 2 minutes later for the next action phase, which will resolve before they get lynched.
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Post Post #630 (isolation #42) » Mon May 11, 2009 8:27 pm

Post by ortolan »

How does that "note" thing nyb posted work?

Does anyone know if it's legit?

I will post screenshot in a bit, one tick.
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Post Post #632 (isolation #43) » Mon May 11, 2009 8:54 pm

Post by ortolan »

Image

I realise this doesn't prove much and potentially makes us look scummy because it has us speculating about a second mafia, which could well imply we are in the first mafia

The whited out stuff included references to beta.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #44) » Tue May 12, 2009 1:15 am

Post by ortolan »

I think the most important question at this point is:

J-Scope: who do you think is scum?
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Post Post #636 (isolation #45) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:52 am

Post by ortolan »

J-Scope (635) wrote:I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Ortohoops-scum would have had to do the high risk-high reward of bussing Yos early and hard; RW-scum would have had the foresight to plan an accurate fake conversation. I guess I have to throw them out the window and go with my reads; RW looked suspicious in my re-read so I'm sticking with him.
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Post Post #649 (isolation #46) » Tue May 12, 2009 1:56 pm

Post by ortolan »

Sorry RW but I actually think you made a sum total of zero valid points against us in that last post

1) I have no idea what determines the order of posts, I've seen them going both ways before. Sometimes after you post it reverses the order also. It's probably an option but if you're implying it's like that cause that's edited that's quite retarded. Why would I go to the effort of editing (and such scummy content which doesn't prove anything to begin with) only to order them in a way you cannot in the actual quicktopic? ~ I just determined any quicktopic I look at is displayed that way. See below.

2) I dislike how this forced us into a dilemma of potentially compromising the other game
and/or
getting modkilled in this one for referencing the other game, which was the reason for the edited posts.

3) I edited 3 out of 7 posts by whiting them out.

4) The reason you don't have the admin tools is probably because you're not signed in, as it says?????? Do you think I would go to the effort of editing a quicktopic like that perfectly (which I assure you I'm not capable of) and then add an entire admin bar which isn't even there in reality??? ~ Actually I'm pretty sure it's there just because I created the Ortohoops topic.
J-Scope (637) wrote:Can someone explain why nyballs was killed? I knew we all said we wouldn't lynch Orto or nyballs, but all this time I thought Orto was more town. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a strategy or something.
HELLO THIS IS A BLATANT WIFOM ATTEMPT BY SCUM.

RW, because I'm pretty certain J-Scope is scum rather than you, I do hope you'll at
least
pay attention to the fact he was willing to vote you. He changed his mind when he realised I had every intention of voting him and when he thought he could WIFOM you into the choice of lynching me after we posted a scummy looking quicktopic (and after he chose to kill nyb instead of us then made a big song and dance routine about the fact, which is BLATANTLY scummy).

On your point about my scum meta, sorry but that's just blatantly incorrect.

1) Despite what you claim, I
have not
lurked this game
at all
.

2) My scum meta isn't actually to lurk anyway, your sample is a large game which was mountainous, incredibly drawn out and not swingy, with a town ineffective at scum-hunting. There was little motivation to post much beyond drawing attention to oneself. Also even then relative to the other players I was quite active, so this "you lurk as scum" is fiction, and I haven't even been lurking this game. See Hunchback of Notre Dame mini, Suzumiya Haruhi mini, the lovers nightless open or the carbon 14 open or Sushi Mafia to see my scumplay.

Image

That is a game (Mushroom Kingdom 1) I wasn't even in, and the posts are ordered like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the reason I have admin tools in Ortohoops is just because I created that quicktopic...

Image

Same...
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Post Post #652 (isolation #47) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:18 pm

Post by ortolan »

I was talking about us having to censor stuff relating to the 2nd game

And please actually read my post, all my quicktopics are in that order. Just because you have a different setting on your account to mine does not mean anything was "edited".

I have not been lurking since this phase began? Why would you think that? There is a different day/night cycle in Australia.
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Post Post #656 (isolation #48) » Tue May 12, 2009 2:32 pm

Post by ortolan »

Image

Image

Image
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Post Post #663 (isolation #49) » Tue May 12, 2009 3:46 pm

Post by ortolan »

Can you remind me of why it's unethical if we win as scum again? I don't recall what your argument was there.
J-Scope (659) wrote:You were baiting me with that post into getting emotional. I calmed down within a few minutes, mostly because I don't want this to end on a bad note when we have beta to finish.
Hey, I was trying to get a reaction out of you but not to be a dickhead, I just wanted a better read :)

This is very hard, I'm actually finding it really hard to see Jahudo as scum when I compare his play here to in Sushi Mafia. His play seems
far
more analytic and he seems to be putting a lot more effort in. The main thing was him "having it both ways" a bit with Yosarian and not giving the case the attention it deserved at the time.

On the other hand we have Walt's fruity posts and...hey wait a minute doesn't that quicktopic actually look like...
really
fake?

Who the hell says "So that was a nice lynch :)" and "We took some hard losses yesterday"??? That just reads really fake. Plus these posts happened to coincide with Adel making it clear posting these sorts of thing would be allowed (same day, I can't translate time exactly cause I don't know what time they have on their quicktopic).

RW- please show me a screenshot of something, anything you said before the first of May. I am very much going to vote you at this point otherwise. According to my calculations the first post you've shown after you actually received your role was 6 hours after Adel made it clear that posting quicktopics would be allowed.

Also as you've seen, both us and Jahudo discussed both games in our posts. I'm very unconvinced you have such a long and "pure" post, made with such timing that doesn't even mention beta. Also why did you only show us about one post? I really want to see some unedited posts made after you got your role but before the first of May, and I'd like to see them continually please.
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Post Post #665 (isolation #50) » Tue May 12, 2009 3:55 pm

Post by ortolan »

as I said, that was not for ethical reasons
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Post Post #667 (isolation #51) » Tue May 12, 2009 3:59 pm

Post by ortolan »

so are you actually going to address anything I said?

I was certainly not the only one to comment on your penchant for drunk-posting
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Post Post #669 (isolation #52) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:02 pm

Post by ortolan »

I don't think you're aware of just how unconvincing you're being
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Post Post #670 (isolation #53) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:03 pm

Post by ortolan »

I'm fine waiting to see if J-Scope hammers :)
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Post Post #672 (isolation #54) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:13 pm

Post by ortolan »

So you're entirely ignoring all the problems I have with your quicktopic? LuL
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Post Post #675 (isolation #55) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:17 pm

Post by ortolan »

:)~ :)~ :)~

I also like how you only just set your status to "appear offline" (because I could previously see you in the users list for Theme Park and now can't, yet you are still posting. Now why would you do that? :)
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Post Post #679 (isolation #56) » Tue May 12, 2009 4:39 pm

Post by ortolan »

Hoops stop posting because she said I'd made most of the effort in this game so I should just finish it. Kind of a shame though, last night when I spoke to her she was convinced you were scum but I still wanted to go after J-Scope. How wrong I was.
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Post Post #681 (isolation #57) » Tue May 12, 2009 5:10 pm

Post by ortolan »

J-Scope is not scum, ergo RW is scum (which was already obvious, at least to me, I simply need to convince Jahudo now).

Jahduo 434 was her last post I believe.

Note that RW is totally refusing to even discuss his blatantly fake quicktopic anymore (in favour of some nonsensical ethics discussion I can make neither heads nor tails of?), even though he said he could "post more examples as needed" earlier.
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Post Post #682 (isolation #58) » Tue May 12, 2009 5:35 pm

Post by ortolan »

Also note it was clear from Post 206 onwards that we might use things such as quicktopic screenshot posting to break the game, which is before the first post from qt RW has shown us.

Also look at 660 and 662 where he seems to be suggesting he would happily hammer you.

And finally look at him vote me when I start to scrutinise his quicktopic screenshot, and never make any attempt to explain it.
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Post Post #683 (isolation #59) » Tue May 12, 2009 5:35 pm

Post by ortolan »

(while referring to an ethics discussion I don't understand).
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Post Post #689 (isolation #60) » Tue May 12, 2009 7:07 pm

Post by ortolan »

why is that edited so heavily, did you really spend like 16 posts in a row all talking about beta?, and how would RR know when the "hit" on Incamnito was submitted???????????

Please take a screenshot like mine of either of the first two pages and white out anything pertaining to beta.
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Post Post #706 (isolation #61) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:17 pm

Post by ortolan »

Not what I asked for, and no explanation is forthcoming for why your screenshot in 688 is so heavily cropped, contradicts a later post and why you cannot simply post the whole page.
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Post Post #709 (isolation #62) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:32 pm

Post by ortolan »

you will find that definition in most online dictionaries but I'm sorry if I offended you :)

other terms I could have used include "kooky" or "eccentric"

I also use dictionary.com mainly for convenience of remembering url
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Post Post #710 (isolation #63) » Tue May 12, 2009 8:34 pm

Post by ortolan »

Also, posting stuff pertaining to beta here will you get you modkilled
here
as far as I'm aware. I do suggest you white it out but not being able to post any of it is pretty unconvincing. I also don't see why you need RR's approval to post the quicktopic now :)
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Post Post #721 (isolation #64) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:10 pm

Post by ortolan »

All the stuff I whited out, while some of it was about alpha, had references to beta. I edited one of my posts to take the stuff out when you requested it but Hoops didn't want to, plus my editing made her last post nonsensical. I took out everything which could be used to infer anything about beta.
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Post Post #724 (isolation #65) » Tue May 12, 2009 9:50 pm

Post by ortolan »

Image

To explain: the test post was for comparing the difference between US time and my time so I could work out how your timestamps compared to Adel's

The edit was when I originally edited the post to remove beta related content (it then made the next post nonsensical as I said so I took that out as well, but it's there now, although it doesn't say anything). The reason I didn't edit out this edit stamp this time though is that I realised you can just edit any post you made and make entirely fake logs and simply take out the "edited" stamp, like I could have done- the posts will still have the original posting time. So this method of verifying ourselves has in fact proven nothing at all.

I will say however that I think it's more of a scumtell that your qt was so much bigger than both ours and J-Scope's, but that you could only selectively quote one post at a time whereas we were happy to post ours in their entirety. I will also point out that I caught you blatantly contradicting yourself between posts 14 and 17 (which you have proven yourself unable to explain), which really should be enough to end the game at this point. I won't point out that your play has reeked of scum all game and Yoswen did call you scummy before they were lynched- we all assumed this was reverse WIFOM and they were trying to implicate a townie by pretending to "fake-suspect" them, but the other conclusion, that they were providing a busing advantage was clearly the correct one.

If Jahudo intends to vote for me I will happily answer any questions he has, but for now I am waiting for his decision.
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Post Post #728 (isolation #66) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:36 pm

Post by ortolan »

Still no defence of your post 17 compared to 14 after all the times I've brought it up? :) :) :)
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Post Post #730 (isolation #67) » Tue May 12, 2009 10:52 pm

Post by ortolan »

You clearly asked "when was the kill put in; when he had 5 votes or before?", which implies obviously firstly that you know he was killed; and secondly; that you are asking your scumbuddy when the kill was put in.

Then in 17 you are clearly feigning ignorance after knowing your quicktopic will be audited, pretending you can't understand how someone died with only five votes on them.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
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Post Post #737 (isolation #68) » Wed May 13, 2009 2:19 am

Post by ortolan »

oh wow

that is quite horrendous
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
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Post Post #738 (isolation #69) » Wed May 13, 2009 2:20 am

Post by ortolan »

that actually seriously makes me want to retire from mafia permanently
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
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